Grace in Focus Podcast Summary

Episode: In 2 Thessalonians 1:8, Does “Those Who do not Know God” Equal “Those Who do not Obey the Gospel”?
Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Bob Wilkin (C), Sam Marr (B)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into 2 Thessalonians 1:8: Are “those who do not know God” and “those who do not obey the gospel” the same group, or does Paul mean to distinguish between two categories of people? The discussion unpacks Free Grace theology’s response, exploring what it means to “know God” and “obey the gospel,” the implications for assurance of salvation, and insights into New Testament passages on belief and obedience.

Episode Overview

This short, content-rich episode tackles a nuanced Bible question sent in by a listener: Is there a distinction between people described in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 as “those who do not know God” and “those who do not obey the gospel”? Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr explore scriptural contexts, theological nuances, and the implications for Free Grace theology.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Listener’s Question and Its Importance

[01:04]

• Sam Marr reads his father’s question about 2 Thessalonians 1:8: Are these two different groups (“those who do not know God” vs. “those who do not obey the gospel”), or are they the same?
  • Quote:
    • “There's potentially two groups listed here... are those two different groups? Are they the same group?” (B, 01:14)
• Wilkin commends the question’s insight and notes it’s rarely discussed.

Wilkin’s Commentary and Scriptural Support

[01:43]

• Wilkin recalls his own writing in the Grace New Testament Commentary:
  • Many equate both phrases, but Wilkin thinks:
    • “Those who do not know God” refers to unbelievers who’ve never heard the gospel.
    • “Those who do not obey the gospel” refers to those who’ve heard and rejected it.
  • All believers come to know God (cites Galatians 4:9).
  • Rejecting Christ equates to disobeying the gospel (cites 1 Peter 2:7-8).

[03:01]

• Marr reads 1 Peter 2:7-8 to support the idea that “disobedient” refers to unbelievers.

The Nature of Belief, Obedience, and Knowing God

[03:18–05:24]

• Wilkin:

  • Contrasts believers (those who believe) with the “disobedient” (unbelievers).
  • “Disobedience” is refusal to obey the single command to trust Christ.
    • “They're not obedient to God's command to believe in His Son…” (C, 03:28)
  • Cites John 5:24 and John 3:16: Belief in Christ is doing the will of God.

• Marr & Wilkin discuss:

  • Matthew 7:21-23 is often misread as supporting works-salvation; actually, “the will of my Father” is believing in Christ (see John 6:28-29).

[05:09]

• Galatians 4:9: Believers “know God” or are “known by God.”
  • Wilkin: Coming to faith is due to God’s initiative; humans must be willing to believe.
    • “This idea of knowing God begins with God doing the drawing. And then the humans have to have the willingness to believe.” (C, 06:00)
  • Not believing is “an act of rebellion or disobedience… to the one command to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.” (C, 06:49)

Unpacking the Thessalonian Context

[07:27]

• Marr confirms:

  • If there are two groups, both end up as unbelievers and verse 9’s judgment applies to both.

• Wilkin adds:

  • Thessalonians focuses on the end-times/Tribulation. Salvation in these letters is often about deliverance from wrath or the Tribulation, not justification.
  • God’s coming judgment will vindicate the righteous by punishing the wicked—applies to all unbelievers, including old persecutors.
    • “When God brings retribution… he’s judging all of the unbelieving world.” (C, 08:42)

Different Types of “Knowing” God

[09:00–11:45]

• Wilkin distinguishes two types of knowledge:
  • Positional knowledge: All believers “know God” in the sense of being His children (positional).
  • Experiential knowledge: Believers may or may not “know God” intimately depending on fellowship, obedience, and daily walk (experiential).
    • “To know God in my experience means I’m in fellowship with Him, I’m walking in the light, I’m confessing my sins, that sort of thing.” (C, 10:39)
  • John 17:3 is often misread—a believer's potential to know God more fully, not a guarantee of full knowledge at salvation (“may know you” is subjunctive—something possible, not certain).
    • “The term knowing is a very flexible term in Hebrew and in Greek and in English.” (C, 11:10)

Final Position and Takeaway

[11:55–12:42]

• Wilkin’s conclusion:
  • Two groups are possible but it’s also possible they’re the same group, given the parallel structure in Greek.
  • The fact both are listed inclines Wilkin to see a distinction: those who never heard (do not know God), and those who heard but rejected (do not obey the gospel).
    • “The fact that he gave two inclines me to believe. They’re two separate groups. But the key thing... is when you’re studying the Bible, ask this type of question, pray about it, meditate...” (C, 12:23)
• Listeners are encouraged to ask tough questions, reflect, and seek biblical clarity.

Notable Quotes

• “They’re not obedient to God’s command to believe in His Son and believe what His Son said regarding everlasting life.” (C, 03:28)
• “This idea of knowing God begins with God doing the drawing. And then the humans have to have the willingness to believe. And if they don’t believe, it is an act of rebellion or it’s an act of disobedience.” (C, 06:00)
• “When you see salvation in First and Second Thessalonians, it’s talking about the Rapture and being saved from the Tribulation which is to come.” (C, 07:53)
• “There’s two types of knowledge of God: a positional knowledge... But then there’s an experiential knowledge of God.” (C, 10:56)
• “The fact that he gave two inclines me to believe they’re two separate groups. But the key thing... is when you’re studying the Bible, ask this type of question, pray about it, meditate on it, think about it.” (C, 12:23)

Key Timestamps

• 01:04 – Introduction of the question
• 01:43 – Wilkin’s commentary and suggestion of two distinct groups
• 03:01 – 1 Peter 2:7-8: Obedience vs. disbelief
• 04:16 – Doing the will of the Father = belief
• 05:09 – Galatians 4:9: Knowing God and being known by God
• 07:27 – Summary: Both groups are unbelievers, receive same judgment
• 08:10 – Eschatological context of Thessalonians
• 09:00–11:45 – Experiential vs Positional knowledge of God; John 17:3 explored
• 11:55 – Conclusion: possible distinction and encouragement for deeper biblical questions

Episode Takeaways

• 2 Thessalonians 1:8 may be referring to two categories of unbelievers: those without exposure to the gospel, and those who willfully reject it.
• “Knowing God” and “obeying the gospel” are closely related but can reflect different experiences or forms of rejection.
• Assurance of salvation and understanding the biblical concepts of knowledge and obedience are central to Free Grace theology.
• Careful reading, context, and willingness to question common assumptions are encouraged in Bible study.

Recommended For:
Listeners wanting clarity on difficult New Testament passages, students of Free Grace theology, and anyone interested in assurance of salvation and biblical exegesis.