In 2 Thessalonians 1:8, Does “Those Who do not Know God” Equal “Those Who do not Obey the Gospel”?

Summary

Grace in Focus Podcast Summary

Episode: In 2 Thessalonians 1:8, Does “Those Who do not Know God” Equal “Those Who do not Obey the Gospel”?
Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Bob Wilkin (C), Sam Marr (B)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into 2 Thessalonians 1:8: Are “those who do not know God” and “those who do not obey the gospel” the same group, or does Paul mean to distinguish between two categories of people? The discussion unpacks Free Grace theology’s response, exploring what it means to “know God” and “obey the gospel,” the implications for assurance of salvation, and insights into New Testament passages on belief and obedience.

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Episode Overview

This short, content-rich episode tackles a nuanced Bible question sent in by a listener: Is there a distinction between people described in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 as “those who do not know God” and “those who do not obey the gospel”? Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr explore scriptural contexts, theological nuances, and the implications for Free Grace theology.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Listener’s Question and Its Importance

[01:04]

• Sam Marr reads his father’s question about 2 Thessalonians 1:8: Are these two different groups (“those who do not know God” vs. “those who do not obey the gospel”), or are they the same?
  • Quote:
    • “There's potentially two groups listed here... are those two different groups? Are they the same group?” (B, 01:14)
• Wilkin commends the question’s insight and notes it’s rarely discussed.

Wilkin’s Commentary and Scriptural Support

[01:43]

• Wilkin recalls his own writing in the Grace New Testament Commentary:
  • Many equate both phrases, but Wilkin thinks:
    • “Those who do not know God” refers to unbelievers who’ve never heard the gospel.
    • “Those who do not obey the gospel” refers to those who’ve heard and rejected it.
  • All believers come to know God (cites Galatians 4:9).
  • Rejecting Christ equates to disobeying the gospel (cites 1 Peter 2:7-8).

[03:01]

• Marr reads 1 Peter 2:7-8 to support the idea that “disobedient” refers to unbelievers.

The Nature of Belief, Obedience, and Knowing God

[03:18–05:24]

• Wilkin:

  • Contrasts believers (those who believe) with the “disobedient” (unbelievers).
  • “Disobedience” is refusal to obey the single command to trust Christ.
    • “They're not obedient to God's command to believe in His Son…” (C, 03:28)
  • Cites John 5:24 and John 3:16: Belief in Christ is doing the will of God.

• Marr & Wilkin discuss:

  • Matthew 7:21-23 is often misread as supporting works-salvation; actually, “the will of my Father” is believing in Christ (see John 6:28-29).

[05:09]

• Galatians 4:9: Believers “know God” or are “known by God.”
  • Wilkin: Coming to faith is due to God’s initiative; humans must be willing to believe.
    • “This idea of knowing God begins with God doing the drawing. And then the humans have to have the willingness to believe.” (C, 06:00)
  • Not believing is “an act of rebellion or disobedience… to the one command to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.” (C, 06:49)

Unpacking the Thessalonian Context

[07:27]

• Marr confirms:

  • If there are two groups, both end up as unbelievers and verse 9’s judgment applies to both.

• Wilkin adds:

  • Thessalonians focuses on the end-times/Tribulation. Salvation in these letters is often about deliverance from wrath or the Tribulation, not justification.
  • God’s coming judgment will vindicate the righteous by punishing the wicked—applies to all unbelievers, including old persecutors.
    • “When God brings retribution… he’s judging all of the unbelieving world.” (C, 08:42)

Different Types of “Knowing” God

[09:00–11:45]

• Wilkin distinguishes two types of knowledge:
  • Positional knowledge: All believers “know God” in the sense of being His children (positional).
  • Experiential knowledge: Believers may or may not “know God” intimately depending on fellowship, obedience, and daily walk (experiential).
    • “To know God in my experience means I’m in fellowship with Him, I’m walking in the light, I’m confessing my sins, that sort of thing.” (C, 10:39)
  • John 17:3 is often misread—a believer's potential to know God more fully, not a guarantee of full knowledge at salvation (“may know you” is subjunctive—something possible, not certain).
    • “The term knowing is a very flexible term in Hebrew and in Greek and in English.” (C, 11:10)

Final Position and Takeaway

[11:55–12:42]

• Wilkin’s conclusion:
  • Two groups are possible but it’s also possible they’re the same group, given the parallel structure in Greek.
  • The fact both are listed inclines Wilkin to see a distinction: those who never heard (do not know God), and those who heard but rejected (do not obey the gospel).
    • “The fact that he gave two inclines me to believe. They’re two separate groups. But the key thing... is when you’re studying the Bible, ask this type of question, pray about it, meditate...” (C, 12:23)
• Listeners are encouraged to ask tough questions, reflect, and seek biblical clarity.

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Notable Quotes

• “They’re not obedient to God’s command to believe in His Son and believe what His Son said regarding everlasting life.” (C, 03:28)
• “This idea of knowing God begins with God doing the drawing. And then the humans have to have the willingness to believe. And if they don’t believe, it is an act of rebellion or it’s an act of disobedience.” (C, 06:00)
• “When you see salvation in First and Second Thessalonians, it’s talking about the Rapture and being saved from the Tribulation which is to come.” (C, 07:53)
• “There’s two types of knowledge of God: a positional knowledge... But then there’s an experiential knowledge of God.” (C, 10:56)
• “The fact that he gave two inclines me to believe they’re two separate groups. But the key thing... is when you’re studying the Bible, ask this type of question, pray about it, meditate on it, think about it.” (C, 12:23)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:04 – Introduction of the question
• 01:43 – Wilkin’s commentary and suggestion of two distinct groups
• 03:01 – 1 Peter 2:7-8: Obedience vs. disbelief
• 04:16 – Doing the will of the Father = belief
• 05:09 – Galatians 4:9: Knowing God and being known by God
• 07:27 – Summary: Both groups are unbelievers, receive same judgment
• 08:10 – Eschatological context of Thessalonians
• 09:00–11:45 – Experiential vs Positional knowledge of God; John 17:3 explored
• 11:55 – Conclusion: possible distinction and encouragement for deeper biblical questions

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Episode Takeaways

• 2 Thessalonians 1:8 may be referring to two categories of unbelievers: those without exposure to the gospel, and those who willfully reject it.
• “Knowing God” and “obeying the gospel” are closely related but can reflect different experiences or forms of rejection.
• Assurance of salvation and understanding the biblical concepts of knowledge and obedience are central to Free Grace theology.
• Careful reading, context, and willingness to question common assumptions are encouraged in Bible study.

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Recommended For:
Listeners wanting clarity on difficult New Testament passages, students of Free Grace theology, and anyone interested in assurance of salvation and biblical exegesis.

Transcript

[A]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 talks about those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel. Are these the same people? Is knowing God equivalent in meaning to obeying the gospel? Friend, thank you for being here to enjoy this episode of Grace in Focus. Grace in Focus is the radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. And and Our website is faithalone.org we'd love you to know about our seminary. It's a free online seminary and you can study with us and if you want, you can stay with us and earn an M. Div. Degree. It's free as long as you keep a 3.0 or higher grade average. We think you'll enjoy it and prepare yourself to handle God's Word accurately. Find out all about it at our website faithalone.org now with today's question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr.

[B]

Alright Bob, we have a question. This one's from my dad. He sent me a text on Sunday. His question's on second Thessalonians 1 through 8. It says, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. And then verse 9 says, these shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power. So my dad's question is there's potentially two groups listed here, those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. And so his question is, are those two different groups? Are they the same group?

[C]

Okay, that's a good, a really good question. And I pointed out to you, most people don't ask the question your dad's asking, so he's asking a good one. And I said, I bet I didn't discuss it in our Grace New Testament commentary. So I pulled off the shelf and guess what I did. So here's what I wrote and I think I still agree with myself. I said, many take the phrase those who do not know God to be equivalent to those who do not obey the gospel. However, it seems likely that the first phrase, those who do not know God, refers to unbelievers who have never heard the good news, while the latter group, those who do not obey the gospel, refers to those who have heard but have rejected it. And I went on to say, all believers in one sense have come to know God. Compare Galatians 4, 9. And since God commands people to believe in His Son. For example John 5:19, 24 John 5:37, 38 Acts 16:30, 31. To reject Christ is failure to obey the Gospel. And I put compare 1st Peter 2:7,8. Do you have the 1st Peter 2 passage there?

[B]

Starting verse 7? Therefore, to you who believe, he is precious. But to those who are disobedient, the stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone and a stumbling block and a rock of offense. They stumble being disobedient to the Word to which they were appointed.

[C]

So notice the first part of verse 7. How does it go to to you who believe? Okay, so there's the One and now.

[B]

It'S contrasted with those who are disobedient.

[C]

Right, so the disobedient are the unbelievers. They're not obedient to God's command to believe in His Son and believe what His Son said regarding everlasting I Remember in John 5:24 Jesus said, He who hears My word and believes in him who sent me has everlasting life, shall not come into judgment, but is passed from death into life. Believing in the Father who sent him means the message Jesus gave wasn't just his independent message, but it was the message the Father gave him to give or sent him to give. So as a result, John 3:16, when we believe that we're believing in Jesus, but we're also believing in the One who sent Jesus because He sent Jesus to give that message.

[B]

And we're doing the will of God by believing His Son.

[C]

We're doing the will of God or the will of the Father by believing in His Son. And I think that, by the way, is what goes on in Matthew 7:21 23 not everyone who says to me, lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. A lot of people think, well, that means you've got to live a really good life and you've got to persevere to the end and all that. No, that's work salvation. And Jesus said, salvation is the gift of God. John 4:10 There are no works we can do. He said, this is the work of God that you believe in him whom he sent. John 6:28, 29 and I think that.

[B]

Needs to be addressed in 2 Thessalonians as well, because the question here is obviously, what does it mean to know God?

[C]

Alright, that's a good question. Let's look at that parallel.

[B]

Look at Galatians 4:949 says, but now after you have known God or rather, are known by God. How is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements to which you desire again to be in bondage?

[C]

Yeah. See, they were thinking of being influenced by the Judaizers who were commanding them to be circumcised and to keep the law of Moses. And he's saying, look, if you think your justification hinges on the works of the law, then you've become estranged from Christ and you've fallen from the experience of grace. Of course, they're still born again, but what he says there is they've come to know God. Or rather, they've come to be known by God because in a sense, when we come to faith, it's because God took the initiative. Remember Romans 3, 10 and 11, where it says no one seeks God? No, not one. How can that be, since we know that, for example, Cornelius in Acts 10 was seeking God, and Jesus in Matthew 7, 7, 11 said, Ask, seek and knock. And Jesus said to the people of Jerusalem, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I would have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks, but you were not willing. So it seems to me that this idea of knowing God begins with God doing the drawing. And then the humans have to have the willingness to believe. And if they don't believe, it is an act of rebellion or it's an act of disobedience. It's a disobedience to one command to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

[A]

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[B]

So then for second Thessalonians 1:8, you would say that both groups. If we're saying it's two different groups in verse eight, those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel of Christ, even though there's a distinction between them, the result is the same. They're both unbelieving people. And verse nine applies to both of those groups.

[C]

Right. And I should mention that first and Second Thessalonians are all about the coming tribulation period and believers being saved from it. So when you see salvation in first and Second Thessalonians, it's talking about the Rapture and being saved from the Tribulation which is to come, that God has not appointed us to wrath. The wrath there refers to the Tribulation. And when he's talking here about this fiery judgment that's going to come upon their adversaries, what it's saying is God is going to vindicate the righteous by judging the wicked. And during the Tribulation, the wicked will be judged. Now, I realize the people who persecuted the Thessalonians have long since died and they're not going to be in the Trib, but in a sense, when God brings retribution or judgment upon the unbelieving world in the Tribulation, in a sense he's judging all of the unbelieving world. And of course, ultimately, at the Great White Throne judgment, the Lord Jesus Christ will hold them all accountable, including the people who are persecuting the Thessalonians. Let me say one more thing, Sam, about knowing God, since your dad's question brings it up and you mentioned it specifically, that is in John chapter 17. Let me start in verse one. Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, and this is his high priestly prayer. Father, the hour has come. He's now talking about the cross. He's been pointing to this his whole life. My hour's not yet come. My hour's not yet come. Starting with the beginning at the wedding of Canaan, his hour hadn't come, but now my hour has come. Glorify your son. He's talking about the cross. That your son may also glorify you as you have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given Him. And by the way, the ones the Father gives the Son are all who believe in Him. This isn't some statement of Calvinist election. And then he says, and this is eternal life. That they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. Now, the normal way this is interpreted is this is eternal life, that you know God, so that every person who has eternal life knows God. And there is a sense in the Galatians passage we were looking at that believers do know God. But I don't think that's the context here. Here he says that they may know you, the only true God in Jesus Christ, whom you sent. I think here it's saying, once you have eternal life, you now have the opportunity to know God the Father and God the Son in your experience. And we know that from, for example, first John, that it's possible to Be a believer and yet to not know God in your experience. To know God in my experience means I'm in fellowship with Him, I'm walking in the light, I'm confessing my sins, that sort of thing. And that's what I think is going on in John 17:3. So that there's two types of knowledge of God, a positional knowledge of God, I'm one of his children, I know Him. But then there's an experiential knowledge of God. For example, in John 14, Jesus said to Philip, philip, have I been with you so long and yet you don't know me? Because he said, just show us the Father, that's enough for us. He's like, I have shown you the Father. If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. Don't you know who I am? So this term knowing is a very flexible term in Hebrew and in Greek and in English. When it comes to knowing God, it could refer to our position as believers, or it could refer to our experience as believers who know him in our day to day experience. Notice in 17:3 he says that they may know you. If I remember correctly, that's a subjunctive and the subjunctive often conveys something which is possible but not certain. And so I think he likely would have used an indicative if he wanted to say this is eternal life, that they know you.

[B]

I think that's some good news.

[C]

Yeah, great question. I love it. It was a difficult question. It's possible these two are the same thing that the first part, those who do not know God, even those who do not obey the gospel. That's a possible interpretation, but I think it more likely because he could have avoided saying both parts and just said those who don't know God. Or he could have said those who don't believe. Or he could have said those who don't obey the gospel. The fact that he gave two inclines me to believe. They're two separate groups. But the key thing for all of us to take away is when you're studying the Bible, ask this type of question, pray about it, meditate on it, think about it. And if you want, send in the question to us and we'll be happy to answer it. And in the meantime, keep grace.

[B]

Keep grace in focus.

[A]

Be sure to check out our daily [e-mail] they are short and full of great teaching, just like what you've heard today. Find [e-mail] resources blog. We would love to hear from you. Maybe you've got a question, comment, or some feedback. If you do, please don't hesitate to send us a message. Here's our email address. It's radioaithalone.org that's radioaithalone.org and when you do very important. Please let us know your radio station call letters and the city of your location on our next episode. The prodigal son's father said that his son had been dead but is now alive again. What did he mean by that? We will discuss it next time. Come back and join us. Until then, let's keep Grace in focus. The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.