Is Securing My Salvation Up To Me?

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Is Securing My Salvation Up To Me?”

Podcast: Grace in Focus
Host: Grace Evangelical Society
Guests: Bob Wilkin, Sam Marr
Date: May 18, 2026
Episode Duration: 13 minutes

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr tackle a pressing theological question from a listener—whether the security of salvation depends on personal endurance or solely on God's promise. The discussion centers around 2 Timothy 2:11-13, delving deep into the distinction between eternal security (justification) and the concept of eternal rewards (sanctification). The conversation addresses common misunderstandings related to perseverance theology, how to interpret challenging "problem passages" in the New Testament, and maintains a Free Grace theological perspective throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Listener Question & Scriptural Focus

[01:07-02:07]

• Listener Tom’s Question: Experiencing confusion between verses that seem to require enduring faith to secure salvation versus those that imply Jesus guarantees it.
• Scripture in Focus: 2 Timothy 2:11-13 is read and becomes the core of the episode.

Distinguishing Salvation from Rewards

[02:07-05:55]

• Sam Marr: Points to an article (“Secure Yet Accountable”) suggesting verses 11 and 13 in 2 Timothy 2 are “twin pillars” of eternal security, while verse 12 speaks to eternal rewards.
• Bob Wilkin: Explains “died with Him” refers to all believers (positional truth) and guarantees glorification. References Job 19:25 and John 6:47, 11:26 for assurance.
  • Quote [04:50]:
    • “If we are faithless, he remains faithful. ... He cannot deny himself. ... If I fail to endure, he cannot take away my everlasting life, because he's already said that he who believes in me has everlasting life. I'm secure forever.” — Bob Wilkin

Parsing the ‘Endurance’ and ‘Denial’ Passages

[05:45-07:56]

• Verse 12 “contradiction”:
  • “If we endure, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will deny us.”
• Sam Marr: Links this to Matthew 10:32-33, showing parallels with Jesus’ words about confession/denial—noting key difference in wording (“if we endure” vs. “if we confess”).
• Interpretation:
  • Enduring faith equals reigning with Christ (“co-heirship”), not the possession of eternal life.
  • Lack of endurance results in loss of the privilege to reign, not loss of salvation.
  • Illustration [08:38]: Sam humorously distinguishes “heirship” (inheriting with Christ) from “airships” (dirigibles).

Clarifying Free Grace Theology

[09:24-10:52]

• Common Mistake: Bob highlights that equating reigning with Christ to possessing eternal life is a theological error.
  • “Wrong … You don’t have to endure to be with Christ forever—you endure to reign with him.”
  • Assurance comes from Jesus’ promises (John 3:16, John 11:27, John 20:31), never endurance or confession.
• Contrast in Conditions:
  • Eternal security rests entirely on belief in Christ, not on continued faithfulness/endurance.

Broader Scriptural Evidence for ‘Endure to Reign’

[10:52-12:19]

• Other Apostolic Writings:
  • Paul—References to “running the race,” “receiving a crown” (1 Cor 9:24-27; 2 Tim 4:6-8).
  • John—Not being ashamed/confident at Christ’s coming (1 John 2:28; 4:17-19).
  • James—Theme of behavior affecting rewards (James 5:9).
• Bob’s Exhortation: All scripture should be interpreted in the light of John 3:16’s clear promise.

Jesus’ Teachings Parallel Paul’s View

[12:19-13:04]

• Parables of Rewards:
  • Luke 19:16–26 (Minas), Matthew 24:45–51 (faithful/unfaithful servant) both support the distinction between entrance (by faith) and reward (by faithfulness/endurance).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If we are faithless, he remains faithful. … He cannot deny himself. … I'm secure forever.” — Bob Wilkin [04:50]
• “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.” — 2 Timothy 2:12 [05:45]
• “What Tom is implying is that reigning with Christ equals being with him forever. That's a mistake … That's wrong.” — Sam Marr [09:24]
• “You don’t have to endure to be with Christ forever—you endure to reign with him.” — Bob Wilkin [09:28]
• “It's important to recognize here, Tom ... to keep John 3:16 in mind with whatever verse you're reading ... keeping clear and simple promise of everlasting life in mind. And interpret Scripture in light of that, not the other way around.” — Bob Wilkin [11:43]

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Key Takeaways

• Eternal security is based exclusively on faith in Christ, not on ongoing endurance or public confession.
• 2 Timothy 2:11 and 2:13 teach the believer’s security, while v.12 focuses on the reward of co-reigning with Christ, which is contingent on endurance and confession.
• The New Testament consistently differentiates between the free gift of eternal life and rewards for faithful service.
• Challenging passages should be interpreted in light of clear Gospel promises—chiefly John 3:16.

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Listener question and Scripture reading: [01:07–02:07]
• Explanation of eternal security vs. rewards: [02:07–05:45]
• Discussion of ‘enduring’ and loss of rewards: [05:45–07:56]
• Theological clarity on reigning vs. salvation: [09:24–10:52]
• Parallels across the epistles and Gospels: [10:52–13:04]

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a conversational, approachable tone with moments of humor (as in the “heirship vs airship” example) and a heavy reliance on direct scriptural reference. The speakers are pastoral and careful to ground their theology in biblical texts, striving to clarify common misconceptions for listeners.

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This episode is especially valuable for listeners wrestling with questions about assurance of salvation, those confused by “problem passages,” and anyone seeking to understand the Free Grace perspective on justification and sanctification.

Transcript

[A]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. What do I need to do to be secure in my salvation? Is it up to me? Can I mess it up? Or is God's guarantee of my salvation good enough? Thank you friend for joining us today. This is Grace in Focus. We're glad you're with us. This is a radio and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society and Our website is faithalone.org we are in our application and registration window for our online seminary, the Grace Evangelical Theological Seminary. So if you're interested in studying with us in the fall semester, get your application in and start the registration process. We'll have foundational courses if you're just starting out with us, as well as new and exciting elective opportunities for our returning students. Get all the information you [e-mail] and now with today's question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilken and Sam Marr.

[B]

Alright Bob, we've got a question from Tom. Says he was listening to the Growing in Grace podcast and heard the host referred to 2nd Timothy 2:12, which we'll read that in a minute. But Tom's question basically is he says, I'm a bit confused. On one hand it seems like securing my salvation is up to me enduring. And on the other hand it sounds like Jesus has guaranteed my salvation. It seems like a conflict and it unsettles me. Can you help me understand? I want to be secure in Jesus. So we're going to read those verses and we'll see the apparent contradiction. That's confusing Tom here in the Bible

[C]

and he specifically asked, is securing my salvation up to me? Is that part of the Zemia?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[B]

And so Starting in the second Timothy, chapter 2, verse 11, this is a faithful saying. For if we died with him, we shall also live with him. If we endure, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us. If we are faithless, he remains faithful. He cannot deny himself.

[C]

Okay, so I would urge Tom, you to go to our website faithalone.org and look up an article by Brad McCoy. And in the article I think it was something like secure yet accountable or something like that. He argued that verses 11 and 13 are twin pillars of eternal security. They're like bookends. And in between verses 11 to 13 are two statements dealing with eternal rewards. With the first statement talking about the person who endures and what they get, and the second part of verse 12 talking about the person who doesn't endure and what they don't get. Or what they do get as a result of not enduring. So look at you. Just read it. But verse 11, if we have died with him, we shall also live together with him. Now, when it says this is a faithful saying, it's probably a saying that was going around in the first century that Timothy was probably aware of, and Paul quotes it. But in any case, the saying evidently is everything in verses 11, 12, and 13. So in Paul's thought, whenever we say someone has died with Christ, we're referring to someone who is born again. Because dying with Christ is something that happens positionally to us the moment we believe. Especially you can see that in the book of Ephesians, especially the first three chapters of the book of Ephesians, also Romans, chapter six. And so everyone who's died with Christ is going to live with him. And I take it that's a reference to glorification, bodily resurrection into the kingdom with Jesus. This is kind of like what you see in job 1925. I know my Redeemer lives, and I know that one day I will walk with him in my flesh. This is the promise. Just as Job was sure he was going to walk with the Lord Jesus Christ in the eschaton in the last days, so we who have died with Christ know we are going to be glorified and live with him forever. But then skip verse 12 for a minute. Verse 13. If we are faithless, he remains faithful. There's clearly a contrast between faithless and faithful. In other words, if we're not faithful to Christ, he remains faithful to us because he cannot deny himself. What he has said is, he who believes in me has everlasting life. John 6:47. So if I'm one of the ones who's believed in him, and yet I fail to endure, he cannot take away my everlasting life, because he's already said that he who believes in me has everlasting life. I'm secure forever. John 11:26 says the same thing. He who lives and believes in me shall never die. So if you, Sam, are a believer and you're living, so I know what's true of you is you'll never die. What I don't know is true of you is that you'll always believe, right? At some point, you could get duped and confused and pulled into a culture. If any of that happened, you'd still be born again because you're a living human being that believes in Jesus. And that means you are secure forever. Once you're saved, you're always saved.

[B]

But verse 12 doesn't read like that. If we endure with him, we shall also reign with Him. That's positive. If we deny him, he will also deny us. That's negative.

[C]

Okay, does the second half of verse 12 sound familiar to something Jesus said in the Gospel of Matthew?

[B]

It does. It sounds like like Matthew 10:33.

[C]

Many commentators see Paul interpreting Matthew 10:33 in this verse. And your Bible even lists it as a cross reference, right? Why don't you read 32 and 33?

[B]

Therefore, whoever confesses me before men, him I will also confess before my Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies me before men, him I will also deny before my Father who is in heaven.

[C]

Now it is interesting that verse 12 doesn't say, if we confess him, he will also confess us.

[B]

Right?

[C]

It says, if we endure, we shall also reign with Him.

[A]

Just jumping in here to make you aware of our magazine Grace in Focus. It is a bi monthly, six issues per year, 48 page magazine, full color and we want you to subscribe by emailing your name and your snail mail address to gesaithalone.org the subscription is free. It can be accessed electronically or it can be actually physically sent to you. If you live in the lower 48 United States, that's our Grace and Focus magazine. Send your name and snail mail address to gesaithalone.org it is interesting that verse

[C]

12 doesn't say, if we confess him, he will also confess us.

[B]

Right?

[C]

It says if we endure, we shall also reign with him. I believe that's also helping interpret Matthew 10:32. If we confess him before men, he will confess us before the Father. That is before the Father he's going to say, okay, Sam is one who endured in his confession of my name. And as a result he's going to be one of the overcomers who rules and reigns with me forever.

[B]

Right?

[C]

And the believer who does not endured in their confession of Christ before the Father is going to hear this one did not confess me to the end and as a result this one is going to be denied the privilege of ruling and reigning with me. He's going to live with me forever. But he's missing out on the privilege of co heirship because of the fact that he did not endure. And by the way, I was teaching a Bible study and I talked about heirship and co heirship with Christ and Sharon said, why are you talking about dirigibles? No, I'm not talking about the Hindenburg. You remember the Hindenburg came into New York and it was this big air balloon thing which had like a couple hundred passengers coming from Europe. It was able to move all these people, and it was a luxury kind of a thing, but it was filled with helium and it hit some kind of a power line or something, and it burst the skin and the thing just caught on fire. But anyway, heirship in this other sense is h E I r being an heir with Christ. And so what verse 12 is saying is if we endure in our confession of Christ, then we will reign with him. And what Tom is implying is that reigning with Christ equals being with him forever. Right, but that's a mistake.

[B]

Wrong.

[C]

That's wrong.

[B]

That's what I should have said.

[C]

Yeah. And why is it wrong?

[B]

Well, we know from the Gospel of John that the only condition Jesus ever put on being in the kingdom or receiving everlasting life was belief in him for it. John 3, 16, 11, 27, and then the purpose statement 2031. So there's no mention there of confessing or enduring anything like that. So if that's our starting point, then it becomes pretty clear. And that makes 11 and 13 very easy to understand. And it's easy to understand why Paul uses these as encouragements. If we died with him, we should also live with him. Well, Christ died, but he came back to life. So we know that since he came back to life, we will too. That's one of the reasons why we believe and we can be confident. And then the same with 13. This is encouraging to me. Even if I am unfaithful, he's still going to remain faithful. Those are both encouragements that no matter what I do or what I can't do, Christ is in control. He's got it. 12 is very, very different because it's conditioned on our behavior. And comparing it to Matthew 10:33, I think is helpful because we see a lot of things in the Gospel of Matthew that are our behavior being a condition of some kind of good or bad results before Christ. And none of them are about heaven or hell. They're about reward or punishment or whatever.

[C]

Okay, so how about in the epistles? Let's talk about the apostles for a minute. Did the apostles teach that we have to endure in order to reign with Christ? I mean, here's one example, but are there others in Paul or in Peter or in John or James? Are there any other examples that we have to endure to reign?

[B]

We get a lot. Paul talks about running the race and receiving a crown.

[C]

1 Corinthians 9, 24, 27, or 2 Timothy 4, 6, 8.

[B]

John talks about being confident at his coming and not being ashamed.

[C]

1st John 2:28 1st John 4:17 19

[B]

trying to think of if James does

[C]

well, one of the better ones is probably James 5:9 the judges stand. Don't grumble because the judge is standing at the door, but it doesn't specifically talk about ruling.

[B]

Yeah, but it's the same theme of your behavior determines some kind of good or bad result. But it's important to recognize here, Tom, and I'm not familiar with the Growing in Grace podcast, so I don't know exactly what their soteriology is. But it's important to recognize that you have to keep John 3:16 in mind with whatever verse you're reading wherever you are, keeping clear and simple promise of everlasting life in mind. And interpret Scripture in light of that, not the other way around.

[C]

Absolutely. And I'd give one other point. Just like we saw in the apostles that they taught you need to endure to reign. The Lord Jesus taught that too. Look for example at the parable of the minas in Luke 19, verses 16 through 26, or at the parable of the just and the unjust servant in Matthew 24:45 51, and you can see articles on [e-mail] in my opinion, 2nd Timothy 2:11 13 should be part of our toolbox to help people understand both about the free gift and about eternal rewards, all in just three verses. Well, thanks again and Keep grace in focus.

[A]

We invite you to check out our Monday, Wednesday and Friday five minute YouTube videos at YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. You will love the content and learn a lot. There are a lot of costs involved in staying on the air. That's why we so much appreciate our financial partners. If you'd like to learn how to become one, you can find out more by going to faithalone.org on our next episode, Shaffer's list of 33 blessings we get along with Justification Agree or disagree. Please join us. And in the meantime, let's keep grace in focus. The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.