Presenting Your Testimony – Intro

Summary

Grace in Focus – "Presenting Your Testimony – Intro"

Date: July 20, 2026
Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Kathryn Wright
Length: 13 minutes

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Episode Overview

This episode marks the start of a new series on "Presenting Your Testimony." Hosts Bob Wilkin and Kathryn Wright explore the nature, purpose, and challenges of personal testimonies in the Christian faith. They focus on issues surrounding assurance, common confusions, and misconceptions about what makes a "good" testimony, while upholding distinctions vital to Free Grace theology. The discussion includes stories illustrating the pitfalls of testimony culture in churches and practical perspectives on how to share clear, scripture-based accounts of one’s faith journey.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kathryn’s Background and Testimony Roots

• Military Upbringing and Free Grace Influence

  • Kathryn shares her "army brat" background, having lived in various places, which influenced her religious upbringing.
    • "That's why when you first said where I'm from, I was like, well, that's kind of a hard question, really, because I'm not from anywhere." (01:14 – Kathryn)
  • Her father, Ken Yates, a military man and early Free Grace proponent, first discovered deeper Free Grace teaching (“the Hungry Inherit” by Zane Hodges) in Hawaii.
    • "That's when it kind of really started really going serious for dad." (01:51 – Kathryn)

• Current Ministry

  • Kathryn and her father run three weekly Zoom Bible classes spanning topics like end times, Romans, and misunderstood biblical concepts, attracting international attendees.
    • "We've got people from Mexico and Germany and Italy and Spain and... Kenya... It's a real eclectic group. It's awesome." (03:08 – Kathryn)
  • Online classes provide crucial community for those lacking a Free Grace church.
    • "...a lifeline for a lot of friends." (03:49 – Kathryn)

What Makes a Testimony Effective?

Main Goals for Teaching About Testimonies

1. Addressing Pitfalls and Misconceptions

   • Many believers, even regular churchgoers, silently grapple with doubts or confusion about their testimonies because of common but unspoken misconceptions.
   • Kathryn aims to give voice to these struggles:
     • "I think a lot of people in our churches are silently confused when they hear testimonies and they don't know why... that's my first goal." (04:27 – Kathryn)

2. Equipping for Clarity and Confidence

   • Providing scriptural tools so believers can articulate clear testimonies—for personal assurance and evangelistic purposes.
     • "...hopefully give them tools to give a clearer and confident testimony that's grounded in the scriptures." (04:49 – Kathryn)

Host Reflections on Widespread Confusion

• Bob recounts persistent confusion during his ministry with Campus Crusade and in teaching evangelism:
  • "In the 35 years that I’ve been heading Grace Evangelical Society, I just get so much confusion from people." (05:33 – Bob)

Real-Life Examples of Testimony Confusion

The "Big Enough" Testimony Dilemma

• Kathryn narrates a poignant moment with a friend who, despite growing up in church, doubted whether her 8-year-old daughter's testimony was "big enough."
  • "She just bursts into tears... 'I don't know if my daughter's testimony is big enough.'" (06:44 & 07:25 – Kathryn)
• The culture's emphasis on dramatic stories—like the "Damascus Road experience"—can discourage those with quieter, more ordinary faith journeys.
• Kathryn affirms the biblical preference for simple, childlike faith:
  • "That's actually the preferred testimony, that we shouldn't be looking for something that's big. It really is simply by faith." (07:41 – Kathryn)

Assurance Based on Works

• Bob shares about a Calvinist couple whose assurance hinged on observable good works, leading to uncertainty about their children’s salvation:
  • "We won't have enough evidence as to whether they're born again until several years after they've gone off on their own...we'll continue to watch them and look at their works." (09:19 – Bob)
• This works-based assurance burdens children, leaving them feeling judged or inadequate:
  • "Well, what do the boys think?...their assurance is based on their works. Well, if that's the way you think, then your testimony is going to be like that." (10:29 – Bob)

The Addictive Sin Testimony

• Kathryn describes a missionary whose dramatic deliverance from addiction became the central focus of his testimony, causing his daughter to doubt her salvation because she still struggled with lesser issues and didn't feel "changed enough."
  • "She just said, I don't want to go to church all the time. And so to her, she was internalizing it, saying, well, then I must not be saved." (11:16 – Kathryn)
• These misapplied standards can drive young believers either to constant self-doubt or to disengage from faith entirely:
  • "...they hear your testimony and they say that's not always true...a lot of people say, 'well, that's impossible. So I just church is a lie.' They just walk away." (11:54 – Kathryn)

Towards Biblical Assurance and Testimony Clarity

• A core message is the need for "clarity of eternal security," uncoupling assurance from emotional drama or works.
  • "That's our goal here with GES, is just to kind of clarify eternal security and that it doesn't have to be something big." (08:56 – Kathryn)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I don't know if my daughter's testimony is big enough." (06:44 & 07:25 – Kathryn’s friend, paraphrased but deeply impactful for the discussion)
• "We shouldn’t be looking for something that’s big. It really is simply by faith. And a child is the perfect example of that and that we should be thrilled and not be concerned, you know." (07:41 – Kathryn)
• "We really don’t know if someone’s saved until we see enough good works…We’ll continue to watch them and look at their works and see how they’re doing, and then we’ll have enough evidence." (09:19 – Bob, recollecting a Calvinist viewpoint)
• "Your assurance is based on your works. Well, if that’s the way you think, then your testimony is going to be like that." (10:29 – Bob)
• "I think a lot of people who maybe feel embarrassed or feel like my testimony doesn’t sound or doesn’t fit into this mold that is so often presented in churches today." (08:05 – Kathryn)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:43 – Series introduction; Kathryn shares background and family faith journey.
• 03:06 – 03:55 – Kathryn explains the international reach and community-building nature of their Zoom Bible studies.
• 04:10 – Kathryn introduces the upcoming testimony teaching at Cleburne Bible Church; states her two main goals.
• 06:44 – 07:25 – Story of the mother doubting her child’s “big enough” testimony.
• 09:03 – 10:29 – Bob’s story of the Calvinist family and how assurance tied to works muddles personal testimonies.
• 11:16 – 11:54 – Kathryn’s example of the missionary’s daughter wrestling with doubts after hearing a dramatic, struggle-free testimony.

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Conclusion & Looking Ahead

Bob and Kathryn close the discussion promising further exploration of "standard testimonies" and more practical advice in future episodes, with the overarching aim "to clarify eternal security and that it doesn’t have to be something big." (08:56 – Kathryn) Their conversation calls for a compassionate, scripture-first approach to sharing testimonies—one that avoids unnecessary confusion and places the focus on faith, not performance.

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Next episode preview: They will explore what should go into a testimony and further debunk common misconceptions about testimony sharing in the church.

Transcript

[A]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. Hello and welcome to Grace in Focus radio podcast. So glad that you're with us today. As we start a new series, Katharine Wright and Bob Wilken will be talking about what makes a good testimony and when and why should you share your testimony? We're going to be talking about it all week long, so make sure to plan to be with us all this week on Grace in Focus. I also want to tell you about our [e-mail] you'll find all kinds of resources and helps, books and videos, and also information about our national conference. So be sure to check it out. That's faithalone.org now about testimonies. Here is today's discussion.

[B]

Welcome everyone to Grace and Focus. I'm here with Kathryn Wright. Kathryn, where are you from?

[C]

I'm from South Carolina.

[B]

Now, your dad is Ken Yates, who We recently did quite a few radio programs.

[C]

Did y' all get in trouble?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's always challenging doing radio. I'm reminded of James 3:1 you know about let not many become teachers, for as such will incur stricter judgment. Now, your dad was in the army during your growing up years, right?

[C]

Mm, yeah. So I'm an army brat, so I've lived all over. That's why when you first said where I'm from, I was like, well, that's kind of a hard question, really, because I'm not from anywhere.

[B]

Well, how many places did you live before you were 18?

[C]

Oh, my goodness, that's. I have no idea. Everywhere from Hawaii to New Jersey.

[B]

Wow, you lived in Hawaii, too?

[C]

Hawaii is where dad first read the Hungry Inherit.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. So he had Zane in class at dts and then we. So he'd kind of gotten a little bit of the free grace message, but hadn't really solidified. And then we were stationed in Hawaii, and that's when he found it in a little tiny library.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

I know. Isn't that like, what are the odds? And so that's when it kind of really started really going serious for dad.

[B]

That's great.

[C]

Isn't that amazing?

[B]

Yes, it is. Now, you went to what, Luther Reich Seminary? Is that where you went? And what did you do? Master of Divinity. Is that what you did?

[C]

I got my Master's in Christian Studies. I did it all online.

[B]

That's the way it is today, right?

[C]

Everything's online.

[B]

So now you and your dad do zoom classes. What, three a week? Is that right?

[C]

We've got three go in which I. I feel like never advertise it enough. But we do have three zoom classes a week right now. One is going over end times, which is a pretty lively discussion. We get into all kinds of things. We were just in Revelation 9 talking about what are demons and angels and is there a difference? And connecting it to Genesis 6. It was great. And then we also have one on Saturdays and we're going through the book of Romans using Zane's commentary. Good bit in that group. And then there's a ladies Bible study that I do that we're going through your book, the 10 Most Misunderstood Words. And so that's been really great. And I think we're going to do Zane's commentary on first and second Peter next.

[A]

Cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And do all of those have some international people in them?

[C]

Yes, all.

[B]

Are they mostly international?

[C]

There's a lot of international. We've got people from Mexico and Germany and Italy and Spain and I mean, just Kenya. We got a lot of our Zambian guys come. It's a real eclectic group. It's awesome. I like to think that with all of the craziness of the last few years with COVID the zoom classes really were one of the byproducts of it. And I just like, that's my little silver lining and all of this. Yeah. It's been really an incredible blessing to connect because there's so many people, free grace people we hear all the time. I don't have a church. I don't have a community. And this is a way to help them at least grow and get some solid teaching and then maybe try and reach out to those in their community. So it's really lifeline for a lot of friends.

[B]

Okay, so now you're going to Cleburne Bible Church and you're going to be speaking on testimonies. And what's the big idea that you're going to be talking about? I mean, what's the major point you're going to be making about. We're talking about testimonies on how people came to faith in Christ. Right.

[C]

Correct. And making that distinction will be part of it. I have two goals, really. One is to kind of present the pitfalls or some of the misconceptions that come with a lot of testimony presentations. And I think voicing a lot of the unspoken concerns people have or confusions, I think maybe is probably a better way. I think a lot of people in our churches are silently confused when they hear testimonies and they don't know why they don't know how to articulate it. And so that's my first goal, is to just try and come alongside some folks and say, no, you're not crazy. There's a reason why this is. You're struggling with it. And then my second goal is to hopefully give them tools to give a clearer and confident testimony that's grounded in the scriptures. So to equip them to give testimonies that are clear not only for themselves, but also for when they. If they are presenting it to an unbeliever as a way to evangelize. So those are my kind of two main goals.

[B]

That is so good, because I was on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ now crew for four years, and. And during that time, I gave my testimony a lot of times, and I would teach students that I was discipling how to give their testimony. I found that there was so much confusion. And then I taught evangelism at a college out in East Texas and found there was a lot of confusion among the students I had. In the 35 years that I've been heading Grace Evangelical Society, I just get so much confusion from people.

[C]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

So what kind of confusion do you see?

[C]

I could give so many stories of interactions like that. One of the jumpstart conversations for me when I was thinking through the issue of testimonies, because I did grow up free grace. But when I was kind of presented with the standard testimony, I was struggling with it, and I couldn't figure out why, which sounds odd, like you would think I would be able to pinpoint it, but I couldn't. I was like, I'm not really understanding this. And then I had a conversation with a very close friend of mine, and her daughter was about 8 at the time and had recently come to Faith. And they were all excited. And we were talking about. And we were having lunch, and we eat lunch, we pay, we go to the car. I'm cranking up the car, and she just bursts into tears, literally just distraught. And this is somebody who's raised in the church is, you know, teaching her daughter salvation. But she's coming from kind of that standard testimony background. And she said, almost direct quote, because I was shocked. I was like, why are you crying? We just had a great lunch. What's happening? And she said, I don't know if my daughter's testimony is big enough.

[A]

The Grace Evangelical Society's recently published old testament commentary volume one is now available. Find [e-mail] store. It's where you can also find Bob Wilkins latest book, the Gospel is Still Under Siege, as well as many other titles by Grace Evangelical Society authors. Please come by and have a look today. You'll find the GES store at our website. Website faithalone.org that's faithalone.org store. Now back to today's topic.

[C]

I don't know if my daughter's testimony is big enough. Almost a direct quote. I just was shocked. I couldn't believe that that was her perspective, because in her mind, she was like, she's just a little girl. She didn't have this big moment, you know, the Damascus Road experience with the blinding light. And so I sat in that car with her for probably an hour, just going over the fact that that's actually the preferred testimony, that we shouldn't be looking for something that's big. It really is simply by faith. And a child is the perfect example of that and that we should be thrilled and not be concerned, you know. And so that really opened my eyes to how silent people are in terms of their worries, because this is my best friend. And she wasn't going to, you know, share that necessarily with her pastor or somebody in ministry. She just was sharing that in a car with her best friend. And I just think that there's a lot of people like that. I think there's a lot of people who maybe feel embarrassed or feel like my testimony doesn't sound or doesn't fit into this mold that is so often presented in churches today. And so that really kind of jump started me looking into, okay, what is it about testimonies that's causing so much confusion? From there, I just have wrestled with a couple passages and hopefully we can unpack some of those concerns for folks over the next few episodes and make sure people aren't, you know, that's our goal here with ges, is just to kind of clarify eternal security and that it doesn't have to be something big.

[B]

Yeah. See, now I really. How was her expression? My daughter? I'm concerned she doesn't have a big enough testimony.

[C]

Yes, that's a direct quote. I'm worried she doesn't have a big enough testimony.

[B]

What I've experienced is quite similar to that. I remember I was between the time when I was pastoring and I taught at this school college in East Texas. There was a short time where I was doing pulpit supply and I spoke at a church in Paris, Texas.

[C]

I know it well. Did you get to go see the Eiffel Tower with the cowboy hat?

[B]

I did not see the Eiffel Tower. It may not have existed in 1982 when I was there. I don't know.

[C]

You gotta go back.

[B]

I'll go back.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But anyhow, I was there for the morning service and then the evening service, and in between, a couple had us over for lunch, and then we visited with them and. And they had two boys. I think they were like 13 and 11 or 14 and 12. These people came from a very strong Calvinist perspective. And they were correcting me after lunch, saying that a person, in order to have final salvation, they must persevere in faith and good works. And he said, we really don't know if someone's saved until we see enough good works. And so they looked over at their boys who were sitting in the room with us, and they said, you know, you see our two boys here, and we won't have enough evidence as to whether they're born again until several years after they've gone off on their own. And we'll continue to watch them and look at their works and see how they're doing, and then we'll have enough evidence. Well, of course. What do the boys think? They think, well, mom and dad think there's something wrong with us. They think we're not good enough or something. They think their assurance is based on their works. Well, if that's the way you think, then your testimony is going to be like that.

[C]

That's exactly right. Yes.

[B]

So I think this is kind of an epidemic. I can give another example from the Shepherd's Conference, maybe in the next one, but.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, it's endless. And I could give a similar one. A missionary came and he was raising support with his family, and he gave his testimony. And we'll talk about more about kind of what I consider to be the standard testimony, maybe in our next episode. But he gave his testimony. It was one in which he had been dealing with drugs addiction before he came to Faith. And then he came to Faith, and he no longer struggles with drugs. And he had his daughter with him. And his daughter came to him later and just said, I don't know if I'm saved because I still struggle. I don't want to go to church all the time. That was her issue. She was like, sometimes because they were going and raising support and going to all these churches. And so it was difficult. You know, they were traveling all the time. And she just said, I don't want to go to church all the time. And so to her, she was internalizing it, saying, well, then I must not be saved. And so this has a big impact on not just the parents, but a lot of kids, I think, who are being raised in the church and it can cause them to doubt their salvation. Or I think another common thing that we're seeing, I think we're seeing a lot of people say, well, that's impossible. So I just church is a lie. They just walk away. I still want to do that sin, or I'm still struggling in this area. Or they hear your testimony and they say that's not always true. So I think you kind of have both responses in our churches.

[B]

Well, we'll continue on this discussion of testimonies on the next episode. And everyone, let's keep grace in Focus.

[A]

Thank you both for that great discussion. Did you miss an episode of Grace in Focus that you really wanted to hear? Just come to faithalone.org that's faithalone.org we have all our past episodes right there on the site. In addition, we have all kinds of free resources available for you. It's all designed to help you mature and grow in your understanding of scripture. So come Visit [e-mail] that's faithalone.org on this program, we keep our requests for financial partners to a minimum. But if you are interested in becoming a financial partner with Grace and Focus, you can find out how to do [e-mail] our team is really great about answering questions, comments and feedback. If you've got some, we hope to hear from you. Let me give you our email address so you can do just that. It's radioaithalone.org that's radioaithalone.org next time on Grace and Focus. What are some of the things that should go into a testimony and what are some of the misconceptions about testimonies? This is the Grace Evangelical Society. Until next time, let's keep Grace in focus. The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.