Presenting Your Testimony – Misconceptions

Summary

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Grace in Focus Podcast Summary

Episode: Presenting Your Testimony – Misconceptions
Date: July 21, 2026
Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Katharine Wright

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Episode Overview

In this 13-minute discussion, Bob Wilkin and Katharine Wright critically examine common misconceptions about sharing Christian testimonies. They dissect the typical three-part testimony structure, explore how it often reflects Reformed/Lordship theology rather than Free Grace Theology, and offer insights on how to better align our stories with the gospel of grace. They challenge the effectiveness of testimony as an evangelistic tool and warn against pointing to personal transformation instead of Christ.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Standard Three-Step Testimony Structure

• [01:09] Katharine Wright describes the typical testimony:

  1. Life before faith: A past marked by sin or mischief—even trivial ones (“pulling pigtails”).
  2. Conversion experience: The defining moment or act (altar call, sinner’s prayer).
  3. Life after conversion: Dramatic changes; no longer sinning, now “super Christian” — always praying, reading the Bible, serving in church.
  • “If you Google how to give your testimony, what you’re going to find is the standard three step process...” (01:09)

• [02:07] Bob Wilkin points out exaggeration:

  • After conversion, testimonies often culminate in “you’re now a pastor or...super Christian.”

• The language varies by tradition:

  • Before/after “giving my life to Christ,” “inviting Jesus in my heart,” “repenting,” etc.
  • “There’s a whole range of things that they say you need to do to be saved.” (02:47)

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2. Confusion and Inconsistency in Testimonies

• [03:24] Katharine Wright: Recounts three people at a table, each giving a different step-two (coming to faith): altar kneeling, saying the Lord’s Prayer, surrendering to Christ.

  • “Three different testimonies, three completely different stories, responses.” (03:24)
  • The group didn’t recognize their inconsistencies.
  • “That’s what’s so shocking... they don’t see the inconsistencies.” (04:10)

• [04:18] Bob Wilkin:

  • Despite differences, the testimonies have a core similarity: focus on personal response or works, reflecting Lordship Salvation.
  • “All of them tend to imply lordship salvation.” (04:18)

• [04:28] Katharine Wright:

  • The standard testimony structure is “Reformed theology boiled down into a testimony format... It’s rooted in Lordship thinking that I need to make him Lord.”* (04:28)

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3. The Free Grace Perspective on Assurance

• [04:56] Bob Wilkin:

  • Some Free Grace testimonies shift from “life change” as early evidence of salvation to assurance based on believing God’s promise later.
  • Shares about a conference speaker: originally measured salvation by change in behavior, only later by belief in eternal security.
  • “For the first five years of his Christian life, he knew he was born again because of his life change ... then once he came to believe the promise, now his assurance shifted to the promise of life.” (07:05)

• [07:49] Katharine Wright:

  • Finds this strange; many moral people or even non-believers exhibit similar changes.
  • “There are so many moral people who never cuss ... there’s a lot of unbelievers who study the Bible every day.” (07:51)

• [08:00] Bob Wilkin:

  • Gives his own example: “I was a self-righteous Pharisee before I came to faith. I didn’t cuss, I didn’t smoke... I was like a modern Pharisee.”*

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4. The Evangelistic Value (or lack) of Standard Testimonies

• [08:10] Katharine Wright:

  • Highlights the flaw in using testimonies as evangelism:
    • If the story centers on a moral turnaround, what does that mean to already-moral people?
    • “If you use that standard testimony... but you’re evangelizing to someone like you—that’s meaningless.” (08:34)

• [08:37] Bob Wilkin:

  • Observes that, for people like his former self, such testimonies actually create obstacles:
    • “That would absolutely turn me off ... In my view, you had to be righteous before you could be saved.” (08:37)

• References John 3:16:

  • Salvation is based solely on faith in Christ, not on what comes before or after.
  • “There’s nothing in John 3:16 about Nicodemus—what happened before... or what’s going to happen after... If you believe in Jesus, then you have everlasting life.” (09:12)

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5. A Better Framework for Testimony

• [09:45] Bob Wilkin:
  • Suggests focusing testimonies on belief:
    1. What you believed before.
    2. How you came to believe the promise of eternal life through Christ.
    3. How that continuing belief comforts, strengthens, and assures.
  • “It doesn’t guarantee I’m going to live a godly life, but it’s motivated me to tell others.” (09:48)

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6. Warning: Don’t Point to Your Works—Point to Christ

• [10:09] Katharine Wright:

  • References Matthew 7, where unbelievers point to their works before Christ—and are rejected.
  • “Their testimony is, ‘hey look, we changed. We had all these great things...’” (10:19)
  • Finds it “ironic and sad” that so many Christian testimonies sound like those rejected in Matthew 7.

• [10:37] Bob Wilkin: Recounts Zane Hodges' airline conversation:

  • Matthew 7 is not about not having enough works, but about relying on works instead of faith.
  • “Their problem is they’re thinking about their works instead of faith in Him.” (11:14)

• [11:22] Katharine Wright:

  • “What we end up doing so often is we’re pointing to ourselves and our lifestyles rather than pointing people to Christ and saying, ... ‘He’s offering you this. This gift of eternal life by faith alone. Do you believe that?’” (11:22)

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7. Anticipating Objections—Isn’t That What Paul Did?

• [11:47] Katharine Wright:
  • Many point to Paul’s testimony as the model (before/middle/after).
  • Promises to address this question in the next episode.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Katharine Wright (02:47):
  “There’s a whole range of things that they say you need to do to be saved.”

• Katharine Wright (04:28):
  “What you are seeing is Reformed theology boiled down into a testimony format.”

• Bob Wilkin (07:05):
  “For the first five years of his Christian life, he knew he was born again because of his life change ... then once he came to believe the promise, now his assurance shifted to the promise of life.”

• Katharine Wright (08:34):
  “If you use that standard testimony... but you’re evangelizing to someone like you—that’s meaningless.”

• Bob Wilkin (09:12):
  “There’s nothing in John 3:16 about Nicodemus—what happened before... or what’s going to happen after... If you believe in Jesus, then you have everlasting life.”

• Katharine Wright (10:19):
  “The unbelievers’ testimony is, ‘hey look, we changed...’”

• Bob Wilkin (11:14):
  “Their problem is they’re thinking about their works instead of faith in Him.”

• Katharine Wright (11:22):
  “What we end up doing so often is ... pointing to ourselves and our lifestyles rather than pointing people to Christ.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09] — The standard three-step testimony framework
• [03:24] — Three inconsistent testimonies; unrecognized discrepancies
• [04:56] — Free Grace version: assurance delayed
• [07:05] — Example of shifting assurance from changed life to promise of God
• [08:34] — Testimony as evangelism falls flat for moral/righteous people
• [09:12] — John 3:16 and Christ-centered testimony
• [10:09] — Matthew 7, works-based testimonies, and Zane Hodges anecdote
• [11:22] — Summary warning: Testimonies should point to Christ, not self

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Conclusion

Wilkin and Wright challenge listeners to rethink how they present their testimonies. Rather than using stories of personal transformation or focusing on works, they call for Christ-centered testimonies rooted in belief in the gospel promise. Their critique extends to both Reformed and popular evangelical traditions, highlighting the need for clarity and grace. The episode closes by teasing a follow-up discussion addressing the apostle Paul’s testimony as a model.

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Transcript

[Announcer]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. Thank you for being here today on Grace in Focus from the Grace Evangelical Society. Katharine Wright and Bob Wilkins started a new series yesterday about testimonies and today we're going to continue that, talking about the usual way to give a testimony and then they will zero in on some of the misconceptions about giving testimonies. What kind of testimony would reflect a grace position and where is a testimony supposed to point? Now after the discussion today, I'll be back to tell you more about the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org I hope you'll go there, take a visit and see what all is there that you might avail yourself of. Now for today's discussion, here are Katharine Wright and Bob Wilken.

[Bob Wilkins]

Welcome back to Grace and focus. I'm here again with Kathryn Wright and we're talking about testimonies. Hi Bob, you said the last time we were going to talk a little bit about standard testimonies and this is like a dance with three steps.

[Katharine Wright]

True. Yeah.

[Bob Wilkins]

What are the three steps most people would say you need to have in your testimony?

[Katharine Wright]

Yeah. If you take any ministry class or you know, go on a missions trip and do some training or if you just Google how to give your testimony, what you're going to find is the standard three step process. The first, the first step you describe your life before coming to faith. So this is usually you were a drug addict or it could be something like I heard a guy give his testimony, he was saved when he was about 10 years old and he said before he was saved he would pull the pigtails of little girls in his class. So it could be something like that or it could be as graphic as doing drugs or whatever step two is you talk about when you came to faith, when you were converted and this came can be very confusing and we can talk about that here in a minute. But yeah, so you talk about the moment that you were saved and then step three is you talk about how you don't do any of those awful things that you once did in step one. Right. So if I pull.

[Bob Wilkins]

But not only don't you pull girls hair anymore, but you're now a pastor or you're now running a pregnancy crisis center or you're a missionary or now you're super Christian.

[Katharine Wright]

Right. You love to go to church and you want to pray all the time and read your Bible all the time and your desires have changed.

[Bob Wilkins]

Or like you told last episode about a missionary who said before he came to Christ, he was a drug addict. Then when he came to Christ, he lost all desire for drugs and hasn't had any drugs since.

[Katharine Wright]

Right. But now he's also a missionary.

[Bob Wilkins]

And also he's a missionary.

[Katharine Wright]

Yeah, exactly. So I think that's the people I talk to. And in our churches, I think that's about standard.

[Bob Wilkins]

Okay. But now I'd give one little tweak on what you said. You said before I came to faith in Christ, how I came to faith in Christ after I came to faith in Christ. But a lot of people would say, before I gave my life to Christ, how I gave my life to Christ, after I gave my life, or before I invited Jesus in my heart, how I invited Jesus after I invited. Or it might be generic. Like I started to say at the beginning, before I came to Christ, and not even say what that means. And sometimes it's before I repented, how I repented, after I repented. There's a whole range of things that they say you need to do to be saved.

[Katharine Wright]

Correct. In fact, it's really sad. But I was sitting around a table with some folks a few years ago and testimonies came up just organically. And three gentlemen gave their testimonies. And one of them said when he got to step two, he talked about how it was in the middle of the night and he found a church and he went up to the altar and he kneeled before the altar. That was his story. Then the next guy told his. And he gave something about a Lord's prayer saying the sinner's prayer. And that was his step two. And then the third guy said something about surrendering his life. Three different testimonies, three completely different stories, responses.

[Bob Wilkins]

And did they recognize when they were hearing this that they were saying three different things? No.

[Katharine Wright]

And that's what's so shocking, is that they don't see the inconsistencies. And I would like to suggest. I think that's really common.

[Bob Wilkins]

Yeah. However, there is something in common between kneeling prayer and surrender sinner's prayer, and that all of them tend to imply lordship salvation.

[Katharine Wright]

Yes. And that's my main point, is that when you look at this standard testimony, what you are seeing is Reformed theology boiled down into a testimony format. It's rooted in Lordship thinking that I need to make him Lord. And so therefore I once did these horrible things and now I don't. And then something in the middle there about I'm a dirty, rotten sinner and I have to kneel and pray and repent and confess and make Him, Lord.

[Bob Wilkins]

Now, I've got a kind of a spin on this that I think we need to get into. And that is in free grace circles, there are some people who say, before I came to Christ, or they may say, before I accepted Christ or before I received Christ, I was like this, here's how I accepted Christ to receive Christ. And then step three is, here's how I got assurance of my salvation. And so step three isn't, oh, now I'm this wonderful person. But step three is five years later, three years later, six months later, ten years later, whatever. Then I knew I was saved. But before then, I was thinking I might lose it. I was thinking I had to persevere to keep it. So there are people within the free grace camp who would say, the way I know I'm born again today is because I believe the promise. But the way I first knew I was saved is because my life changed. In fact, I remember meeting with one of the people from the conference who actually was a plenary speaker at our conference. And he spoke a month later at another conference arguing that assurance wasn't of the essence of saving faith. And I heard that message on tape. And he said during the Q and A time that he was born again five years before he believed he was eternally secure. So I made an appointment with him and met with him later that year. And I said, tell me, how did you know you were born again five years before you were sure you were secure?

[Announcer]

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[Bob Wilkins]

And I said, tell me, how did you know you were born again five years before you were sure you were secure? And he said, my life drastically changed. He said, before this time I swore like a sailor. And at the moment I accepted Christ, I stopped that. And he said, before that, I had no interest in the Bible. And at that moment I gained a voracious appetite for the Bible. His view was, for the first five years of his Christian life, he knew he was born again because of his life change. Now, of course, he didn't know he was secure, but he knew he had a good start. And then once he came to believe the promise, now his assurance shifted to the promise of life.

[Katharine Wright]

Okay.

[Bob Wilkins]

I find that real bizarre.

[Katharine Wright]

It's very bizarre. I mean, there's so many moral people who never cuss.

[Bob Wilkins]

Right.

[Katharine Wright]

Or there's a lot of unbelievers who study the Bible every day.

[Bob Wilkins]

I was a self righteous Pharisee before I came to faith. So I mean, I didn't cuss, I didn't smoke, I was super religious and I was like a modern Pharisee.

[Katharine Wright]

Well, and I've actually heard your testimony. I love to hear you give it. And one of the things that I was going to talk about was that concept that so often testimonies are given as an evangelistic tool. We're trained to share our testimonies when we're evangelizing to unbelievers. If you use that standard testimony of I was living this depraved life and now I've changed, but you're evangelizing to someone like you.

[Bob Wilkins]

Right.

[Katharine Wright]

That's meaningless.

[Bob Wilkins]

That would absolutely turn me off because what I would say is that person was so bad they needed to clean up their life before they could be saved. And unless they say that now, if they said I was living this drug addict life, et cetera, but then I stopped doing it, I cleaned up my life and then I was born again, I'd say, fine. But if they said I was leaving this depraved life and then suddenly I gave my life to Christ or accepted Christ and then automatically it stopped, I'd go, no, wait a minute. In my view, you had to be righteous before you could be saved. If you were walking in sin, you weren't ready to be born again. And the problem is, when you look at a verse like John 3:16, there's nothing in John 3:16 about Nicodemus, what happened before I shared this with you, or Nicodemus, what's going to happen after I share this with you? The whole point is if you believe in Jesus, then you're never going to perish. You have everlasting life. I've used a modified form of this before where I suggest something like, before I believed in Christ for everlasting life. This is what I believe.

[Katharine Wright]

Yes, that's exactly what I was going to suggest.

[Bob Wilkins]

And then this is how I came to believe the promise of eternal life. And since then, this is how continuing to believe that promise has provided ongoing assurance and comfort that empowers me. It doesn't guarantee I'm going to live a godly life, but it's motivated me to tell others.

[Katharine Wright]

Right. The other passage that comes to my mind is Matthew 7 when the Lord's talking about when the unbelievers stand before him at the Great White Throne and what do they do?

[Bob Wilkins]

Yeah, they point to their works.

[Katharine Wright]

They point to their works. That's their testimony. Right. The unbelievers testimony is, hey look, we changed. We had all these great things. We were prophesying in your name and we were casting out demons. We were doing all kinds of great things. I find it kind of ironic and sad that so often what we do is we also sound like them.

[Bob Wilkins]

That's a Good point. Matthew 7, 21:23. And I remember an interesting story. Zane Hodges was on a plane one time sitting next to someone and they got to talking and so the person said, well, what you're saying is just easy believism. And it's Contradicted by Matthew 7, 2123. And Zane said, oh really? He said, well, let's take a look at it. So Zane takes him over there and he pointed to the verse and he said, so what do these people think? Why they should get into the kingdom? And he said, well, because of their works. And he said, so what was their problem? And the guy said, they didn't have enough works. And Zane said, no, that's absolutely not what Jesus is saying. What he's saying is their problem is they're thinking about their works instead of faith in him.

[Katharine Wright]

Right. And that's basically what I'm trying to argue about. These standard testimonies is that what we end up doing so often is we're pointing to ourselves and our lifestyles rather than pointing people to Christ and saying, this is what you need to understand. He's offering you this. This gift of eternal life by faith alone. Do you believe that?

[Bob Wilkins]

Yeah. So instead of pointing people to Christ, we're ultimately in a sense, pointing them to ourselves.

[Katharine Wright]

Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing. Yes. But in our next episode, what I think is a thing to just keep in mind is what are some of the objections that people will have about what we're saying? And I think a lot of people look to the Apostle Paul as their standard. Yes. So how would we answer that question? Isn't that what Paul. Paul does when he gives his testimony? Doesn't he give this before, middle, after depiction?

[Bob Wilkins]

Well, we'll see. Hang with us while we keep grace in focus.

[Announcer]

Thank you both for that great discussion. Would you be interested in some free ebooks on topics you hear on this program? Well, if you are, you need to come visit [e-mail] that's faith faithalone.org on the site we've got all kinds of free materials, but one of our popular options is our free ebooks on a range of subjects. They're designed to help you mature and grow in your understanding of the faith and scripture. So come Visit [e-mail] that's faithalone.org we are so thankful for our financial partners who keep us on the air. Every gift is tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you'd like to find out how you can give, go to faithalone.org Would you like to have a chat with Dr. Bob or one of the guests here on the program? Let me tell you how to reach out to the team. You can get us on our email address, which is radioaithalone.org that's radioaithalone.org

[Bob Wilkins]

next

[Announcer]

time on Grace and Focus. Do you have an anchor verse for your testimony? And does your testimony mainly talk about your experience or does it mainly talk about Christ? Some challenges for us when next we meet. I hope you'll join us. This is the Grace Evangelical Society reminding you to always keep grace in focus. The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.