What Are Your Five Favorite Old Testament Books? – Pt 2

Summary

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Grace in Focus Podcast Summary

Episode Title: What Are Your Five Favorite Old Testament Books? – Pt 2
Date: July 1, 2026
Hosts: Bob Wilkin and David Renfro
Duration: ~13 minutes

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Overview

On this episode, hosts Bob Wilkin and David Renfro continue their engaging conversation about their top five favorite Old Testament books. They delve into the themes, narratives, theological insights, and personal connections that make these books stand out, with special attention to Judges and Second Samuel. The discussion includes thought-provoking commentary on notable biblical figures (like Samson, Deborah, David, Saul, and Solomon) and explores key theological concepts such as grace, forgiveness, consequences, and rulership in the kingdom to come. The tone is thoughtful, conversational, and peppered with humor and candid reflections from both hosts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Book of Judges: Cycles and Deliverance

[00:49–02:41]

• Bob Wilkin (B): Expresses appreciation for Judges due to its cyclical pattern: “cycles of disobedience resulting in judgment, resulting in repentance, resulting in the people calling on the Lord. And he sends a deliverer called a judge. And then there would be a time of peace followed by again disobedience...” (01:09–01:34)
• David Renfro (C): Highlights the historical breadth: “What amazes me about Judges is it covers 300 years of Israel's history.” (02:04–02:09)
• Noteworthy characters like Samson are discussed—flawed individuals whom God still uses: “He's not one of the most godly people... But yet he's a person who did end well.” (B, 02:10–02:21)
• Deborah is mentioned as an unofficial but pivotal leader: “She's not actually called one of the Judges, but she might. Do you think she was a judge?” (B, 02:36–02:41)
  “Yeah, she acted as one for sure.” (C, 02:41–02:43)

2. Second Samuel: The Rise and Decline of David

[02:43–06:48]

• Structure and Narrative:
  • First 10 chapters: David's ascent, consolidating power, “experiencing God's blessing.”
  • David’s moral failure with Bathsheba and Uriah (the famous prophetic rebuke: “You're the man.” – 03:50–03:51)
  • Honest discussion of lasting consequences: “...even if we're forgiven, there can be Consequences that continue on for a time. And to me, it's a very sobering book.” (B, 05:52–05:57)
• Theology of Grace:
  • David deserved death under Mosaic Law, but received “great grace” from God.
  • “There was great grace, but a lot of grace.” (B, 04:44)
• David’s Unique Role:
  • “David is a man after God's own heart.” (B, 05:57–06:00)
  • “The only person in the Bible called that.” (C, 06:00–06:03)
  • Future eschatology: “He'll be number two man under Jesus. It appears he'll be over the apostles.” (B, 06:33–06:48)
• Humor:
  • Light banter: “Or were those porcupines? I always get confused...” (B, 05:18–05:21)

3. Comparing Saul and David: Heart and Legacy

[07:23–10:49]

• Renfro’s Reflection:
  • Saul and David both committed “horrible things,” but David is celebrated, while Saul is not.
  • Renfro’s insight: “It's not their sins because both of them did some horrible things, but... David's heart was in the right place... Saul didn't care. And to me, it's what's in that heart of yours that makes the difference.” (C, 07:39–08:14)
• Wilkin shares Zane Hodges’ perspective:
  • It’s possible (but not certain) Saul may rule in God’s future kingdom—his actions (like consulting the witch of Endor) were perhaps driven by desperation, not idolatry, and he never became an idolater unlike Solomon.
  • “Even in his death, his desire seems to be to please the Lord in a limited sense.” (B, 08:55–09:07)
  • Contrast with Solomon: “He died as an idolater... because the New Testament says idolaters will not inherit the kingdom, meaning won't rule with Christ. He said, we know Solomon won't rule and reign, but we don't know that for sure about Saul...” (B, 09:27–09:54)
• Renfro on Saul’s inner conflict:
  • “I think Saul was just overwhelmed... I think he did have faith in the Lord... but he himself was also important. And I think that caused a lot of conflict within him.” (C, 10:06–10:31)

4. Lighthearted Anecdotes and Seminary Days

[10:49–12:49]

• Wilkin and Renfro share about small towns and past experiences, injecting humor and camaraderie:
  • “There’s one in Arkansas called Toad Suck Ferry. Sharon and I used to drive by that...” (B, 10:54–11:07)
  • The story of Sakul, Texas: “It’s just the word Lucas backwards.” (C, 11:12–11:19)
• Dallas Theological Seminary Memories:
  • The prankster streak among their friends and colleagues (including a joke about spirituality: “‘Are you learning to be spiritual in seminary?’ And Bob said, ‘hell yes.’” – C, 11:57–12:03)
  • Commenting on the selectivity and culture at DTS in their era.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Wilkin, on Judges’ pattern:
  “They’re these cycles of disobedience resulting in judgment, resulting in repentance, resulting in the people calling on the Lord. And he sends a deliverer called a judge.” (01:10–01:34)
• Renfro, on Judges:
  “What amazes me about Judges is it covers 300 years of Israel's history.” (02:04–02:09)
• Wilkin, regarding Samson:
  “He’s not one of the most godly people... But yet he’s a person who did end well.” (02:10–02:21)
• Wilkin, on Nathan’s rebuke:
  “And what does Nathan say? ‘You're the man.’” (03:50–03:51)
• Renfro, on David’s response:
  “Silence. Pretty much, yeah... his mind has been open to what’s going on. That Nathan actually is speaking the words of God.” (03:56–04:16)
• Wilkin, on grace:
  “He should have died according to the law of Moses from either adultery or murder... So there was great grace.” (04:44–04:52)
• Renfro, contrasting Saul and David:
  “The difference that I saw was David's heart was in the right place... Saul didn't care. And to me, it's what's in that heart of yours that makes the difference.” (07:39–08:14)
• Wilkin, quoting Zane Hodges on Saul:
  “Even in his death, his desire seems to be to please the Lord in a limited sense... he didn’t die as an idolater.” (08:55–09:14)
• Humor highlight:
  “Or were those porcupines? I always get confused...” (05:18–05:21)
  “‘Are you learning to be spiritual in seminary?’ And Bob said, ‘hell yes.’” (C, 11:57–12:03)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:49–02:41: Judges—cycles, characters, and themes
• 02:43–06:48: Second Samuel—David’s rise, sin, consequences, and role in God’s kingdom
• 07:23–10:49: Contrasting Saul and David, discussion of rulership in the kingdom, heart vs. actions
• 10:49–12:49: Seminary anecdotes, humor, small town stories

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Closing Thoughts

The episode closes with Bob Wilkin and David Renfro noting they haven’t finished their top five lists and teasing continuation in future episodes. The discussion is marked by deep theological reflection, scriptural insight, and warm, spontaneous humor, making complex biblical themes accessible and relatable.

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Transcript

[A]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. This is GRACE in Focus. On this episode, Bob Wilkin and David Renfro continue talking about their favorite five Old Testament books and why. Which books will they pick today? Stay with us, you'll find out. And we thank your friend for joining us. This is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org and the time is getting close to our Kamiyah, Idaho Regional Conference, July 19th through the 23rd. Lots of recreation, great teaching. You'll be glad you attended. If there's any way you can get the information you [e-mail] events. Now with today's discussion, here are Bob Wilken and David Renfrow.

[B]

Welcome back to GRACE and focus. If you remember, last time, David and I were talking about our favorite five Old Testament books and David discussed in detail two of his Deuteronomy and Ecclesiastes. And you touched on Proverbs. And we did discuss how Hebrew poetry works. Well, I'm going to mention two more also. I would say the Book of Judges. And I particularly like the Book of Judges because they're these cycles of disobedience resulting in judgment, resulting in repentance, resulting in the people calling on the Lord. And he sends a deliverer called a judge. And then there would be a time of peace followed by again disobedience, rebellion, rejection of the teachings of God and the teachings of the Judges. And then there would be judgment and then there would be repentance calling on the Lord. And then there would be another deliverer. And these deliverers are some of the more amazing people in the Old Testament, right?

[C]

They are. Well, look at the situation back then, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And what amazes me about Judges is it covers 300 years of Israel's history.

[B]

And Samson's one of these guys. And he's not one of the most godly people.

[C]

You wouldn't want to follow him as an example of a really spiritual guy.

[B]

And yet he ended well.

[C]

He did.

[B]

He was victorious in his blindness and everything else. And he had a problem with women and everything else. But yet he's a person who did end well. And you've got lots of examples, like Deborah. She's not actually called one of the Judges, but she might. Do you think she was a judge?

[C]

Yeah, she acted as one for sure.

[B]

Yeah. So I love the Book of Judges and I also love Second Samuel. And the reason I love Second Samuel is it outlined so beautifully. The first 10 chapters are David on the rise, Israel on the Rise. He's coming to power. He's consolidating power. He is just. Everything is going great. He's experiencing God's blessing. Then he experiences failure with his sin with Bathsheba and killing her husband first, trying to cover it up. When that doesn't work, then he instructs the commander, just put him in the hottest part of the battle and withdraw from him. So he gets killed. So sure enough, Uriah gets killed. And the prophet Nathan comes to him and gives this a little parable about the man who has one little sheep and he loves the sheep. And he says, someone comes and takes the sheep from him. And what do you think? And he says, that man deserves to die. And what does Nathan say?

[C]

You're the man.

[B]

You are the man. And how does David respond?

[C]

Silence. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, because his mouth has been stopped. Well, his mind has been open to what's going on. That Nathan actually is speaking the words of God, whom David is supposed to follow to the letter. The law of the Lord.

[B]

And in David's good credit, he does respond in a godly way. He said, I have sinned against the Lord. And even though he obviously sinned against Uriah and sinned against Bathsheba, the truth is his ultimate sin was against Yahweh.

[C]

Yeah, and he suffered the consequences of that sin the rest of his life. Yes, but the Lord forgave him. There's no doubt.

[B]

He should have died according to the law of Moses from either adultery or murder. Either one. He should have died. So there was great grace, but a lot of grace. If you read 2 Samuel, chapters 12 through 24 are all about the decline of David. I mean, this is when you have Absalom dying and he says, oh, Absalom, Absalom. You've got the rebellion of Absalom where he takes over the kingdom for a time and he has sexual relations with some of David's concubines. Or were those porcupines? I always get confused in this case.

[C]

Concubines.

[B]

Concubines.

[C]

I'm glad we cleared that up.

[B]

That's right. But for Absalom, they became porcupines.

[C]

Ain't that the truth?

[B]

They led to him dying in the tree. Ye. Well, actually, he's just hanging from this tree. And then who comes along and spears him? Joab. But he ends up and gets speared in the tree. And I just love 2 Samuel because it tells us about God's blessing and it tells us about the fact that even if we're forgiven, there can be Consequences that continue on for a time. And to me, it's a very sobering book.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And keep in mind, David is a man after God's own heart.

[C]

The only person in the Bible called that.

[B]

Yeah. So it's not like we're dealing with someone who is a loser. This is a winner. This is the man who's called in Ezekiel, the Prince. He's going to be right under the Lord Jesus in the coming kingdom. And so even though he experienced a great fall and even though he experienced consequences from that fall, that doesn't mean he's not going to rule and reign in the life to come. In fact, he's going to be probably the greatest person in Jesus kingdom. He'll be number two man under Jesus. It appears he'll be over the apostles.

[C]

Could be, yeah.

[B]

Because they're going to rule over 12 tribes. But it seems like David is going to be ruling directly under the Lord Jesus.

[A]

We will return to our program content shortly, but we're taking this break to let you know that Grace and Focus is shortly going to be transitioning to digital delivery only. We've appreciated this fine radio station, and being part of its lineup has been a privilege indeed. But we're going to say goodbye to this time slot and make room for another ministry right here. You can continue to listen to Grace in Focus. Just pick the time of day anytime 24 7, and find us on Spotify, Apple, and many other podcast outlets.

[C]

What blows me away is Saul, who preceded David, messed up really royally, too. When I was studying this, I went, what's the difference? Saul is kind of cursed and David is. Even though he messed up royally, he is exalted as a hero. And I got to thinking, what's the difference between Saul and David? It's not their sins because both of them did some horrible things, but the difference that I saw was David's heart was in the right place. He wanted to. Even though he wouldn't forget or just go off on some wild tangent, his heart still wanted to glorify the Lord and follow him. Saul didn't care. And to me, it's what's in that heart of yours that makes the difference.

[B]

All right, I have a thought for you here, because I talked to Zayn about King Saul, Zayn Hodges. Both of us knew Zane for many years at Dallas and afterwards. And Zane said that he thought it was possible now, not certain, but possible, that Saul will have some small measure of rulership in the life to come. And here's why he said that he Said, even when he goes to the witch at Endor, remember, God cut off the prophets, so there's no prophets giving him any prophetic word.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So he goes to the witch at Endor not because he wants to be involved in idolatry and witchcraft, but because he's desperate for a word from the Lord. And so God actually allows the witch at Endor to call up Samuel, and Samuel actually appears and talks to him. And Zane said that even in his death, his desire seems to be to please the Lord in a limited sense. I get what you're saying, that he was throwing spears at David and he was, you know, seeking to kill David and all that was horrible. But yet he didn't die as an idolater, like Zane said. You look at Solomon, who. I agree with you. As you said in a previous show, he was obviously a believer. He wrote, you know, multiple books of the Old Testament, and he showed he had a heart for God early on. But in 1st Kings 11, his many foreign wives led him into idolatry and he died as an idolater. And Zane said, because the New Testament says idolaters will not inherit the kingdom, meaning won't rule with Christ. He said, we know Solomon won't rule and reign, but we don't know that for sure about Saul now. Maybe he won't because he certainly had more than his shares of flaws.

[C]

Well, I also think that when I talk about Saul's heart, I think Saul was just overwhelmed. I'm the king. Like, look at me. And that was a large part in his heart. You're right. I think he did have faith in the Lord and that was important to him, but he himself was also important.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I think that caused a lot of conflict within him.

[B]

I agree. And I'm not saying he's going to rule and reign. All I'm saying is it's an open question.

[C]

Well, he'll be there with us, probably. But as far as him being on the throne, like David, not so much.

[B]

Well, it's at least hypothetically possible that. That he's going to get a little teeny city in Israel.

[C]

Yeah. Well, I can think of smaller towns in Texas. There's too many to name.

[B]

Well, there's one in Arkansas called Toad Suck Ferry. Sharon and I used to drive by that, and I'd go, I can't believe there was another one called Zin Z I n. Would you like to be living in Zinn?

[C]

Well, there's one in East Texas called Sakul.

[B]

Sakul? What does that mean?

[C]

Nothing. It just it's the. It's the word Lucas backwards. There was already a Lucas, Texas. So they did Sakul.

[B]

You're making that up.

[C]

No, I've been through it. It's on the way to where I went to college in Nacogdoches.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

It was Stephen F. Austin, the Harvard of the pines.

[B]

Oh, it was not the Harvard of the pines.

[C]

Oh, ye of little things.

[B]

You and Bob Swift. Dallas Seminary was never the same after the two of you.

[C]

No, it was. It had its day. Back when Bob was there for sure.

[B]

Yeah. Remember, tell the story about after his. What was it his first semester at DTS or was it his first year? He comes back to Stephen F. Austin. He's talking to some of the people from the Christian Fellowship and they asked him how it went.

[C]

A friend of mine asked him, are you learning to be spiritual in seminary? And Bob said, hell yes.

[B]

Hell yeah. They already cracked up. Right?

[C]

Oh, but see, that's the kind of people I grew up with. And when I got to seminary, my class was full of a bunch of clowns too. I just attract clowns.

[B]

That was exceptional because during the history of Dallas Seminary, most of the guys were what we used to call in Campus Crusade for Christ, straight laced and sad. Sad. The idea that people had a sense of humor and that they worked well with people, not so much. These were people who were geniuses. You know, back in the day, it was pretty hard to get into Dallas Seminary. You know, they rejected, I think two out of three people. Something like that. So how they let us in, I don't know.

[C]

Well, I know they let you in for a reason. For me, it's nothing short of a miracle.

[B]

By the way, David, we've run out of time again. We haven't finished our top five books.

[C]

So to be continued.

[B]

To be continued. In the meantime, keep grace.

[C]

Keep grace in focus.

[A]

Be sure to check out our daily blogs@facebook faithalone.org they are short and full of great teaching, just like what you've heard today. Find [e-mail] resources blog. We would like to thank all of our financial partners who help us keep this show going. All gifts are tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you'd like to find out how you can be a financial partner, visit us at at faithalone. Org on our next episode. Continuing favorite five Old Testament books. Be sure to join us again. And until then, let's keep grace in focus. The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.