Stop Guessing Your Prices: The Man-Hour Rate Masterclass

Green Industry Podcast

Episode: Stop Guessing Your Prices: The Man-Hour Rate Masterclass
Host: Paul Jamison
Guest: Jonathan Patosnik (JP)
Date: May 4, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of the Green Industry Podcast dives into one of the most critical—but commonly misunderstood—foundations for profitability in the lawn care and landscaping business: how to strategically set your prices using man-hour rates. Host Paul Jamison is joined by industry expert Jonathan Patosnik (“JP”), who walks through a practical masterclass designed to help business owners stop guessing and ensure every job is profitable. JP shares hard-won lessons, actionable steps, and the most important metric for sustainable business growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pricing Struggle for Lawn Care Pros

Many new and even experienced professionals guess their prices, leading to undercharging and unsustainable profits.
“Are you guessing your prices or do you actually know your numbers? ...You work your tail off...And then you feel like you made absolutely no money. Or even worse, you lost money. Well, you are not alone. I have been there many of times...” (Paul, 01:09)

The Reality of Underpricing & How to Learn Fast

JP reassures listeners that underpricing is nearly inevitable at first:

“I wouldn't get too worried about underpricing it. You're gonna do it. There's just no getting around it. Underpricing is just part of the game. That's how you learn. The key is that you fix it as quick as you can.” (JP, 02:30)
The sooner you address underpricing through data and strategy, the faster your business will improve.

The “Copy the Big Guy” Strategy

JP and Paul agree: Use established, larger businesses as a pricing benchmark.
Larger, reputable companies have calculated their pricing to cover every necessary cost (staff, facility, insurance, vehicles).
For new or smaller businesses without these overheads, charging similar rates gives more profit margin and resources to fuel growth.

“If you start there and actually do that, you're going to be making wild profits because you don't have any of the costs that these guys have yet.... That's all margin. So it's a beautiful strategy.” (JP, 02:30)
Avoid copying prices from "chuck in a truck" operators who often undercharge and don’t account for true business costs.

“If you're going to copy one of the two, you want to copy the $72… And the other guy, who doesn't know what he's doing, he's like, 'oh, it takes me an hour. I made $40 an hour. Better than work at a Walmart.' Not understanding all of the overhead.” (Paul, 14:34)

The Power of Tracking Man-Hour Rate

Man-hour rate = (Total amount billed to the client) divided by (number of man-hours worked)
Example: 2 people work 1 hour on a $100 job = $50 per man-hour.

“…When they show up at the account, they turn off the ignition time starts… That’s two hours. Two man hours divided by a hundred bucks, we made 50 bucks an hour.” (JP, 04:57)
This metric isn’t direct profit but reveals which jobs or customer types are truly valuable.
Use the man-hour rate to diagnose underperforming accounts and adjust pricing accordingly—no complicated math required.

“The reason why this number is so powerful is…at a gut level, you could say, wow, when we do this work, it feels really profitable. …the number I just gave you will tell you—not the profit—but it will tell you the difference.” (JP, 04:57)

Real-World Application: Fixing the Pricing Blind Spot

Track your man-hour rate by property size and service type.
Spot trends: E.g., 5,000 sq ft lawns deliver $68/hr, but 9,000 sq ft lawns drop to $48/hr.
Incrementally raise prices on the lower-performing segments and monitor the results.

“I can look at that and say, I'm kind of thinking we need to start selling all that work at a higher price and we add three bucks a week to it or four bucks a week…” (JP, 07:38)
Keep refining and let data—not guesswork—steer your growth.

Raising Prices Confidently (and Communicating That to Clients)

Use a professional “price increase letter” (template available via Paul’s website) to communicate changes.
Be transparent: Explain that price increases are necessary to absorb rising costs (labor, fuel, equipment, etc.).

“We want to continue to do a great job for you and continue to have the best team members, but all of that's costing us more money. So, you know, in order to absorb, that's my secret word…” (Paul, 16:36)
Don’t fear losing unprofitable clients. Replace them with premium, well-priced accounts through continual marketing and lead generation.
Always be recruiting new, better customers to match your improved pricing structure.

Pro Tips and Tools

Use CRM and business management software (e.g., Jobber, CallRail) to make tracking man-hour rates and managing customers easy and automated.

“Jobber is an all-in-one business app software...You can store customer information, send quotes and invoices, schedule your appointments, and even collect payments.” (Paul, 08:38)
Stay on top of marketing and incoming leads so you’re never desperate to keep low-profit clients.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On copying the right pricing:

“You're probably not paying workers comp. I mean, who knows what you're not doing yet. That's all margin.” (JP, 02:54)
Advice for dealing with price objections:

“Don't get nervous...Just remember the word absorb. Yes, that's correct...We just need to absorb. Our, our costs are going up…in order to absorb that, we have to raise our prices.” (Paul, 16:36)
On “dangerous” pricing:

“It's very dangerous, my friend, if we take on more work at lousy prices, because now we have to do the work. But if we're not making money doing the work, we're like a rat in a wheel.” (Paul, 19:23)
On the importance of constant customer improvement:

“We should always be recruiting, we should always be marketing and bringing in new customers at the right price. And if we have old customers that are below average, it's time to raise their price and get it up to where it should be.” (Paul, 17:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

[01:09] – Introduction to the importance of knowing your numbers; JP introduced.
[02:30] – JP on the inevitability of underpricing and learning from it.
[04:57] – JP’s step-by-step breakdown of the man-hour rate and how to track it.
[07:38] – Using man-hour rate and property size data to fix and refine pricing.
[11:57] – Paul’s summary: copying the established (“big guy”) companies, dangers of pricing advice from other “solos”.
[14:34] – Real-world contrasting of prices between established companies and lowballers.
[16:36] – Advice for communicating price increases to clients, using “absorb” as a key word.

Action Steps for Listeners

Stop guessing—start tracking. Use the man-hour rate on every job and regularly review your accounts for underperformers.
Benchmark your prices. Look at what established, reputable companies in your area are charging and align your rates at or above theirs.
Raise prices with confidence. Use clear, honest communication to explain increases and don’t hesitate to replace low-profit clients.
Invest in systems. Adopt CRM and lead management tools to automate as much as possible, making smarter and more profitable decisions.

Tone & Takeaway

Authentic, practical, and focused on empowering small operators to grow smarter—this episode is a direct, real-world guide to taking the guesswork out of pricing through data-driven simplicity. As JP says, “You don’t need to know everything about pricing—you just need to know this.”

Next Episode Preview:
Paul teases more insightful conversation from JP in future episodes and encourages listeners to implement today’s practical advice immediately—starting with raising prices for better profit and peace of mind.

Transcript

Jonathan Patosnik (JP) (0:00)

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Paul Jamison (0:33)

Hello and welcome to the Green Industry Podcast, your go to guide for building a more profitable and thriving lawn care and landscaping business. Your host, Paul Jamison, is the author of five bestselling books, including Cut that Grass and make that Cash and his latest, Level up youp Money, all available on Amazon and Audible. Now get ready for more expert insights and practical strategies to boost your business and level up your life. Here's Paul Jameson.

Podcast Host / Interviewer (1:09)

Are you guessing your prices or do you actually know your numbers? You've ever taken on a yard or any landscaping job? You work your tail off. I'm talking, you're sweating, you're putting in the effort. And then you feel like you made absolutely no money. Or even worse, you. You lost money. Well, you are not alone. I have been there many of times and today I'm gonna chat with Naylor and Jonathan Patosnik. They've been there as well. So my friend Jonathan Pitoshnik, we nickname him jp. He's absolutely legendary. And in today's show, he's going to drop a pricing masterclass revealing, in my opinion, in his opinion, just this is the single most important metric that that we must track and that is our man hour rate. So grab a notepad, guys. This is so important. Take notes if you are able to. If not, listen to this and make sure you remember this, because this can and will change the financial trajectory of your lawn care business forever. Without further ado, here's my friend jp Somebody's in year one mismist. Like, how much do you charge? Nine out of ten times they underprice it. Give us a tutorial on how to price a service.

Jonathan Patosnik (JP) (2:30)

I wouldn't get too worried about underpricing it. You're gonna do it. There's just no getting around it. Underpricing is just part of the game. That's how you learn. The key is that you fix it as quick as you can. To be very specific about what you're asking. What we're trying to figure out is in the beginning, where do we even Start. The idea is that when I don't know how to price what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna just start by looking at how do the big guys charge? The guys that I aspire to be, the guys that we believe by guys, you know, these bigger companies that I would aspire to, want to be them someday, or they seem to have lots of employees and they have a reputation for pretty good work, and their trucks are wrapped in all these things that I want someday. What do they charge? Because what they're charging is how they got all that stuff. You can't go hire Jim for 70,000 bucks a year if you're charging half of what the company, you know, your competitors charge. You just can't do it. It's physically impossible. What they're charging represents the work they've done to figure out what's it going to cost to hire the right people and build the right company and have people in the office and all that. So that's a great place to start. And frankly, if you start there and actually do that, you're going to be making wild profits because you don't have any of the costs that these guys have yet. You don't have Mary in the office. You don't have an op manager, you don't have a big office. You're probably not paying workers comp. I mean, who knows what you're not doing yet. That's all margin. So it's a beautiful strategy because now you've got money to really go grow this thing. But what do most people do? They don't do what I just described. They're charging way under market, and then they can't understand what's wrong with them, why they don't have any money to hire Bob in the field and Mary in the office. Well, I just told you why. It's really. That's the solution. So now let's just. Whatever your pricing is, whether you took that advice or you didn't take that advice and you just kind of made up the pricing. This is now going to be the advice that nobody really wants to hear because it's not fun. But if you really care about the pricing, then this is advice to let pay attention to. There's a couple metrics that I would chart or track. One metric would be, I want to know what I'm making per man hour. There's one number that's actually not that difficult to track, and I'm going to get. I know source all PI can track it. I know Aspire can track it. I'm almost certain Jobber can do it. I don't know if housecall pro can do it. Guessing they can do it. Basically, per man hour rate is I bill the client a hundred bucks to do the work, and I divide it by the number of people that did the job.

Green Industry Podcast

Episode: Stop Guessing Your Prices: The Man-Hour Rate Masterclass
Host: Paul Jamison
Guest: Jonathan Patosnik (JP)
Date: May 4, 2026

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pricing Struggle for Lawn Care Pros

Many new and even experienced professionals guess their prices, leading to undercharging and unsustainable profits.
“Are you guessing your prices or do you actually know your numbers? ...You work your tail off...And then you feel like you made absolutely no money. Or even worse, you lost money. Well, you are not alone. I have been there many of times...” (Paul, 01:09)

The Reality of Underpricing & How to Learn Fast

JP reassures listeners that underpricing is nearly inevitable at first:

“I wouldn't get too worried about underpricing it. You're gonna do it. There's just no getting around it. Underpricing is just part of the game. That's how you learn. The key is that you fix it as quick as you can.” (JP, 02:30)
The sooner you address underpricing through data and strategy, the faster your business will improve.

The “Copy the Big Guy” Strategy

JP and Paul agree: Use established, larger businesses as a pricing benchmark.
Larger, reputable companies have calculated their pricing to cover every necessary cost (staff, facility, insurance, vehicles).
For new or smaller businesses without these overheads, charging similar rates gives more profit margin and resources to fuel growth.

“If you start there and actually do that, you're going to be making wild profits because you don't have any of the costs that these guys have yet.... That's all margin. So it's a beautiful strategy.” (JP, 02:30)
Avoid copying prices from "chuck in a truck" operators who often undercharge and don’t account for true business costs.

“If you're going to copy one of the two, you want to copy the $72… And the other guy, who doesn't know what he's doing, he's like, 'oh, it takes me an hour. I made $40 an hour. Better than work at a Walmart.' Not understanding all of the overhead.” (Paul, 14:34)

The Power of Tracking Man-Hour Rate

Man-hour rate = (Total amount billed to the client) divided by (number of man-hours worked)
Example: 2 people work 1 hour on a $100 job = $50 per man-hour.

“…When they show up at the account, they turn off the ignition time starts… That’s two hours. Two man hours divided by a hundred bucks, we made 50 bucks an hour.” (JP, 04:57)
This metric isn’t direct profit but reveals which jobs or customer types are truly valuable.
Use the man-hour rate to diagnose underperforming accounts and adjust pricing accordingly—no complicated math required.

“The reason why this number is so powerful is…at a gut level, you could say, wow, when we do this work, it feels really profitable. …the number I just gave you will tell you—not the profit—but it will tell you the difference.” (JP, 04:57)

Real-World Application: Fixing the Pricing Blind Spot

Track your man-hour rate by property size and service type.
Spot trends: E.g., 5,000 sq ft lawns deliver $68/hr, but 9,000 sq ft lawns drop to $48/hr.
Incrementally raise prices on the lower-performing segments and monitor the results.

“I can look at that and say, I'm kind of thinking we need to start selling all that work at a higher price and we add three bucks a week to it or four bucks a week…” (JP, 07:38)
Keep refining and let data—not guesswork—steer your growth.

Raising Prices Confidently (and Communicating That to Clients)

Use a professional “price increase letter” (template available via Paul’s website) to communicate changes.
Be transparent: Explain that price increases are necessary to absorb rising costs (labor, fuel, equipment, etc.).

“We want to continue to do a great job for you and continue to have the best team members, but all of that's costing us more money. So, you know, in order to absorb, that's my secret word…” (Paul, 16:36)
Don’t fear losing unprofitable clients. Replace them with premium, well-priced accounts through continual marketing and lead generation.
Always be recruiting new, better customers to match your improved pricing structure.

Pro Tips and Tools

Use CRM and business management software (e.g., Jobber, CallRail) to make tracking man-hour rates and managing customers easy and automated.

“Jobber is an all-in-one business app software...You can store customer information, send quotes and invoices, schedule your appointments, and even collect payments.” (Paul, 08:38)
Stay on top of marketing and incoming leads so you’re never desperate to keep low-profit clients.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On copying the right pricing:

“You're probably not paying workers comp. I mean, who knows what you're not doing yet. That's all margin.” (JP, 02:54)
Advice for dealing with price objections:

“Don't get nervous...Just remember the word absorb. Yes, that's correct...We just need to absorb. Our, our costs are going up…in order to absorb that, we have to raise our prices.” (Paul, 16:36)
On “dangerous” pricing:

“It's very dangerous, my friend, if we take on more work at lousy prices, because now we have to do the work. But if we're not making money doing the work, we're like a rat in a wheel.” (Paul, 19:23)
On the importance of constant customer improvement:

“We should always be recruiting, we should always be marketing and bringing in new customers at the right price. And if we have old customers that are below average, it's time to raise their price and get it up to where it should be.” (Paul, 17:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

[01:09] – Introduction to the importance of knowing your numbers; JP introduced.
[02:30] – JP on the inevitability of underpricing and learning from it.
[04:57] – JP’s step-by-step breakdown of the man-hour rate and how to track it.
[07:38] – Using man-hour rate and property size data to fix and refine pricing.
[11:57] – Paul’s summary: copying the established (“big guy”) companies, dangers of pricing advice from other “solos”.
[14:34] – Real-world contrasting of prices between established companies and lowballers.
[16:36] – Advice for communicating price increases to clients, using “absorb” as a key word.

Action Steps for Listeners

Stop guessing—start tracking. Use the man-hour rate on every job and regularly review your accounts for underperformers.
Benchmark your prices. Look at what established, reputable companies in your area are charging and align your rates at or above theirs.
Raise prices with confidence. Use clear, honest communication to explain increases and don’t hesitate to replace low-profit clients.
Invest in systems. Adopt CRM and lead management tools to automate as much as possible, making smarter and more profitable decisions.

wavePod

Summary

Green Industry Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pricing Struggle for Lawn Care Pros

The Reality of Underpricing & How to Learn Fast

The “Copy the Big Guy” Strategy

The Power of Tracking Man-Hour Rate

Real-World Application: Fixing the Pricing Blind Spot

Raising Prices Confidently (and Communicating That to Clients)

Pro Tips and Tools

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Action Steps for Listeners

Tone & Takeaway

Transcript

Summary

Green Industry Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pricing Struggle for Lawn Care Pros

The Reality of Underpricing & How to Learn Fast

The “Copy the Big Guy” Strategy

The Power of Tracking Man-Hour Rate

Real-World Application: Fixing the Pricing Blind Spot

Raising Prices Confidently (and Communicating That to Clients)

Pro Tips and Tools

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Action Steps for Listeners

Tone & Takeaway