Why You Should Be Charging $100+ Per Man-Hour with John Pajak

Summary

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Green Industry Podcast

Episode: Why You Should Be Charging $100+ Per Man-Hour with John Pajak

Host: Paul Jamison
Guest: John Pajak
Date: August 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Paul Jamison sits down with financial expert and landscaping veteran John Pajak to discuss the real cost of running a profitable lawn care business and why charging $100 or more per man-hour is necessary in today’s market. Together, they break down industry averages, how to calculate true operating costs, common business mistakes, and how forward-thinking investments (including battery-powered equipment) can elevate both profitability and professionalism in the green industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Industry Standard Pricing: What Should You Really Charge?

• Market Averages & Real-World Examples

  • John explains that a truly profitable “real business” (not just an owner-operator) should be aiming for $100 or more per man-hour, even though most are currently around $85.

    • "Generally the guys freak out when I tell them that per man hour they should be trying to achieve, you know, close to 100 or over 100." —John Pajak (02:42)

  • Density is crucial: with tightly packed routes (3 lawns/hour with a 2-man crew at $52 per lawn), John shows this nets $75 per man-hour—still short of the $100 target but better than the typical $40 lawns many solo operators charge, which leads to little return after expenses.

    • "If you are cutting one lawn in an hour, well, yeah, you should be charging at least $100 to do that one lawn." —John Pajak (03:07)

  • Inflation, equipment costs, fuel, and labor are cited as key drivers for why man-hour rates need to climb.

    • "The only reason that I threw out the hundred is mainly because if you look at the prices of trucks and equipment, all the things that we do, they're not getting any cheaper, man." —John Pajak (04:40)

Knowing and Planning Your Numbers

• Planning for Equipment ROI and True Cost Recovery

  • John details why business owners must plan for rapid return on investment (ROI)—ideally recouping equipment costs in 1-3 years for smaller gear and up to five for trucks. Employee abuse and short lifespans mean you can’t just hope equipment lasts forever.

  • Paul highlights how John taught him to “bake in” replacement costs for future purchases—charging now for eventual new equipment and upgrades.

    • "You have to bake into your pricing the future purchases... Like you need to be charging your customers now for that used truck you're going to buy in a few years, then that new mower you're going to buy two years from now." —Paul Jamison (11:08)

• Time is More Valuable than Money

  • John passionately argues time lost can never be recovered, whereas money and equipment can always be replaced.
    • "Time, money and time have no... connection. I cannot go back and get 10 years of my life back." —John Pajak (13:14)
  • Business owners should not waste years “struggling and failing” when mentorship and forward-looking planning could accelerate their paths.

Overcoming Employee Mindset & Common Pitfalls

• Transitioning from Employee to Owner Mindset

  • John reflects on his early days undercharging because he compared his prices to his old hourly wages, not business costs—a classic mistake that drove him out of business.
    • "I was just thinking as an employee going, well, I'm making 10 bucks an hour here. If I could just make, you know, 20 bucks an hour home, man, I'm home free. And that's not, that's not how it works." —John Pajak (09:50)

• Personal Circumstances Matter

  • Every owner has unique life needs (housing, family, etc.), affecting what their business needs to provide; pricing and financial planning must be personalized.

Leveraging Delegation & Buying Back Your Time

• Delegation Is Key to Growth

  • Paul and John discuss hiring out lower-value tasks (cleaning, distributing flyers) to focus on “money-making activities.”
    • "Is it really worth your time to do it? ...My time is better spent creating ideas..." —John Pajak (16:38)
  • Delegating work to employees, subcontractors, or even family members lets owners focus on higher-level strategy and growth.

• Outsourcing Frees Up Focus

  • Paul shares how hiring cleaning help at home frees him to invest more work hours in his business, citing Myron’s term: "Making Money Activities" (15:43).

The Financial and Practical Case for Electric Equipment

• Evaluating Electric vs. Gas-Powered Equipment (Crest Commercial)

  • John walks through the dollar-and-sense comparison between traditional gas-powered gear and battery equipment.

    • Crest’s stick equipment rivals gas in price but offers a three-year warranty (vs. one year for gas).
    • The true game-changer is Crest’s six-year warranty on commercial batteries, allowing you to “purchase your fuel for the next six years upfront,” making costs predictable and less prone to sudden spikes.
      • “When you start getting into the mindset that you're actually purchasing your fuel upfront for the next six years, that changes the whole dynamic.” —John Pajak (26:43)
    • The operating cost of charging batteries is manyfold cheaper than gasoline. Fast recharge times (as little as 8 minutes with the Crest cybertank) further minimize downtime and cost.
    • Acknowledges initial sticker shock but highlights longer-term savings and improved reliability.

  • Noise, Operator Preference, and Customer Demands

    • Paul notes the market is trending toward quieter, battery-powered equipment due to more work-from-home clients and local ordinances seeking to curb noise pollution.
      • "There is a growing market. Our friend Greg Chisholm says, 'the trend is your friend.' And the trend is more and more customers want their service provider to offer quieter equipment." —Paul Jamison (34:21)
    • Crest’s tools are powerful and quiet—crews even prefer them after initial skepticism.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “You should be trying to achieve close to $100 or over $100 per man-hour.”
  —John Pajak (02:42)

• “Time, money and time have no... connection. I cannot go back and get 10 years of my life back.”
  —John Pajak (13:14)

• "My business should support my life, not the other way around."
  —John Pajak (41:49)

• “The trend is your friend. And the trend is more and more customers want their service provider to offer quieter equipment.”
  —Paul Jamison (34:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:40 | Introduction to man-hour pricing and episode scope | | 02:42 | John Pajak shares current industry averages and the push for $100+/hr | | 04:40 | Economic forces (inflation, costs) pushing up the required man-hour rate | | 08:28 | Why $85/hr is the bare minimum—and not enough for growth | | 09:50 | Mistake of equating business charges to hourly wages (employee mindset) | | 11:08 | The importance of planning ahead for equipment upgrades and replacements | | 13:14 | John on the true value of time vs. money and the costs of waiting to act | | 15:43 | Outsourcing personal chores to focus on business | | 16:38 | Delegating lower-value business tasks; buying back your time | | 23:56 | In-depth comparison: Gas vs. battery equipment (Crest Commercial) | | 26:43 | The cost structure advantage of battery equipment warranties | | 34:21 | Quiet equipment as a market differentiator; customers expect less noise | | 41:49 | Personalizing your numbers—your life determines your business targets |

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Conclusion & Resources

Paul and John wrap up emphasizing that charging premium rates is not greed—it's the minimum to ensure sustainability, quality, and a life your business supports rather than consumes. They encourage listeners to attend the upcoming LCR Summit in Louisville for deeper learning and networking.

Resources Mentioned:

• John Pajak’s podcast: Profits with Payjack (Check your favorite podcast platform)
• LCR Summit tickets: lcrsummit.com
• Paul’s books on Amazon/Audible

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For more personalized help with your numbers, reach out to John Pajak or catch he and Paul at the LCR Summit in Louisville, October 19-20, 2026.

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Transcript

[Paul Jamison]

Hello and welcome to the Green Industry podcast, your go to guide for building a more profitable and thriving lawn care and landscaping business. Your host, Paul Jamison is the author of five best selling books including Cut that grass and make that Cash and his latest, level up your money, all available on Amazon and Audible. Now get ready for more expert insights and practical strategies to boost your business and level up your life. Here's Paul Jamison.

Have you ever wondered what should you be charging for your lawn mowing services or your landscaping services? Well, today on the program we're going to get into the nitty gritty with John Pajac Talk. What folks are charging out there per man hour, what the going rate is and should you be the going rate, should you be higher than the going rate? I literally have my calculator out and I'm ready to crunch some numbers with the expert John Pajak. This is part two. We had John on the previous episode where we previewed what he's gonna be talking about as he's a guest speaker at the LCR summit coming up October 20th, 21st year 2026 in Louisville, Kentucky. And John's also gonna be a guest on my podcast out there at the EQIP Expo for the morning show where we'll talk about knowing your numbers. But today I wanna be specific with John cause he, he works with so many different fertilization and landscaping businesses, lawn mowing businesses, and he sees a lot of numbers. So I want to actually hear from the horse's mouth, not that all horses talk. But the point is I want John to explain to us what other guys are out there and gals are charging for their services and why and how to come up with our pricing so that we are ultimately profitable. So without further ado, this is part two of my conversation with financial expert and friend John Paycheck. I'm curious about the averages because you have your, your eyes and nose in so many numbers of so many different businesses. If you could kind of give us an average per man hour rate for a fair market, profitable business. I'm not talking about trucking the truck or staying in the van. I'm talking about real businesses that are making a real profit. What are they charging per man hour for lawn mowing? I don't know if fertilizing weed control does it by man hour, but like just kind of.

What, what?

For somebody who's like, I don't even know what the average man hour rate is right now in the industry, what, what are you kind of seeing for a profitable Business. We'll use lawn mowing as an example.

[John Pajak]

We'll use lawn mowing. Mowing, okay, is a zone animal. Generally the guys freak out when I tell them that per man hour they should be trying to achieve, you know, close to 100 or over 100.

[Paul Jamison]

Wait, yeah, I gotta update cut that grass and make that cash second edition. Because I put 85 per man hours, 20, 26 going right from per man hour.

[John Pajak]

But now 80. Now 85 is probably closer to what most people are. And that may be what is supporting. But you got to look at the thing that, the reason why I say, you know, you should be trying to achieve that you're not just cutting one lawn in a, in a. If you are cutting one lawn in an hour, well, yeah, you should be charging at least $100 to do that one lawn. You know, when I had my mowing division, we would get. Because of our, how our density of how close our lawns were to one another were to one another, and the size of them and the equipment that we had, we were getting about three done per hour on average with a two man crew. And of course that was like. We weren't driving anywhere really. We were staying in the neighborhood, bouncing. Basically the furthest was going across the street from one another or going to the next door. This is a highly populated area. This is high, you know, this is suburbs. So like those were my production numbers. And I don't expect everybody to have that. But at that time, you know, our minimum. I think the last year I was in, I locked, I was locked in at like $52 per cut. And that was for a relatively small lawn. And then they, you know, I had, I had some that were 85 a week, 100 a week, and they were, you know, just bigger lawns, but they required more time. And our average, you know, if we're getting three at 50, that was like 150. If just to do math real quick, I don't want to lose everybody, but if we were getting three done in an hour and we were charging the $52, we'll just knock it down to 50. To make it simple, that was $150 of revenue coming in now between two people. That was like $75 per man hour. So that is more relatable to, you know, the 85 that you're talking about. Okay. The only reason that I threw out the hundred is mainly because if you look at the prices of trucks and equipment, all the things that we do, they're not getting any cheaper, man. And it's like we all use them. And then you got guys that are like, yeah, I, I charge 40 bucks and you know, I get like one done an hour. Okay, well, after all of your expenses and everything accumulate, let's say you're just a single solo operator out there, you're charging $40 or four, let's just even go 50. Okay, you're, let's just say you're charging $50 for that lawn. It takes you an hour as a solo operator to do it. Yeah, you could get by, but you're doing a lot of work for a little return. Because again, the other thing is too, it's not just we buy the equipment, it's there forever. There's operating the equipment, operating expenses. We have to look at, we look at the fuel, we look at the, all the things that could go wrong with it, the maintenance. You know, we've got belts and blades and we have spindles and grease points and all that stuff. It adds up. And for, you know, you say you're still buying a machine, you know, say you did one of those, you bought it and you got four years for zero percent financing or whatever, and you got to, you know, you're paying the dealer like 300 bucks a month, you know. Well, it's not just that $300 a month that you have to cover. It's all the, the fuel, the oil, everything that goes with it. And guess what? That thing is depreciating as well. The way that I try to do that is essentially I plan for that piece of equipment to only I want to get my ROI out of it in a certain amount of time, a short amount of time, you know, instead of, you know, four year roi, I'm. A lot of times with certain pieces of equipment, I want a three year roi, a truck, maybe five years, depending on if I bought it flat out or if I, you know, but it's like every five years I'm, I'm definitely, I want to have my money back from that stick equipment, pieces of equipment that are like string trimmers and blowers and backpack blowers, all those things. I want that back in one year, you know, because unfortunately, I mean, I have employees that, especially when we were mowing, they were hard on equipment. I still have pieces of equipment that I had since like 2015, but then, and they run just fine. But there's also times when I think it was like 2017 or something when I, or 2018, I had a bad run of guys that were just beating on my stuff. I'd Buy a brand new piece of equipment. Three months later I had to replace it because they, they abused it, you know, put the wrong gas in it or ran it over with the truck or whatever, you know, so it's like pieces like that. I want that, I want that ROI back in one year.

[Paul Jamison]

You were going to say something, I

[John Pajak]

was just going to say the. Again with planning your man hour for mowing? It's not like it used to be, you know, especially with the way fuel is, the way everything with inflation has kind of increased things, you know, the $85, hey, I actually kind of like that number. Uh, I'm trying to encourage people that are trying when, especially when they're trying to grow, they're trying to achieve a higher man hour rate for their mowing services.

[Paul Jamison]

Yeah, I'm helping a 16 year old kid here in Tampa and just getting started and trying to explain this. So like we'll use $85 as a man hour. Like it's just hard to get into a 16 year old's mind. Okay. If it takes you one hour, you go and you, you take your little string trimmer and you edge along the garden bed in the driveway, maybe use a stick edger along the driveway and then you mow the grass and it ain't that big of a yard. But all in all, with you being, you know, working the whole time you're there takes you one hour at minimum. You need to charge $85 for that property. It's like what, 85. Like my other friends are working at McDonald's, are making, you know, not $85 an hour. But I was like, yeah, but you. And I just explained everything that you just talked about, all those expenditures

[John Pajak]

and the thing too. Like I'll even throw myself under the bus, you know, Johnny Boy Lawn care way back in the day, you know, failed mainly because I was working for a landscape company. I was making like 10 bucks an hour. And I thought, well, I could do this work. And I was charging based off of like what I thought I needed, wasn't looking at equipment cost, looking at what it, you know, like what it costs to rent anything or have an actual business. The insurance and all the other things, right. I put myself out of business that, you know, very quickly because I was just thinking as an employee going, well, I'm making 10 bucks an hour here. If I could just make, you know, 20 bucks an hour home, man, I'm home free. And that's not, that's not how it works, right? Where?

[Paul Jamison]

Go ahead.

[John Pajak]

I was just gonna say, you know, 20 even back then, you know, if I was charging, you know, there were some lawns, we were doing 15 or $20 back, you know, 26, 27 years late 90s, early 2000s, you know, that was terrible, you know, because it couldn't, it could sustain me as a person, but it couldn't sustain a business by trying to make that.

[Paul Jamison]

One thing you helped me with, John, is instead of only looking in my rear view mirror, which you can print out all your bank statements and if, you know, you keep your business income and expenditures in a separate business banks and accounts than your personal, you can kind of see, okay, well here's what we spent on fill in the blank of every expenditure. But what you helped me to realize is actually also look ahead at, okay, you're going to buy a new string trimmer, blade, edger, backpack, blower, shouts to crest commercial. By the way, you're going to buy all that stuff in the future and a new vehicle or maybe not new like the new, you know, year new, but like a new to you vehicle. So you have to bake into your pricing the future per, you know, purchases of, you know, all the things that you have to buy down the road. Like you need to be charging your customers now for that used truck you're going to buy in a few years, then that new mower you're going to buy two years from now. And that new, like if you're planning next year, we're going to update all the power equipment like you need to have that baked into your prices now. And I was like, I mean, it's common sense because I never even thought ahead. I was just thinking, well, here's how much my storage unit is every month. Here's how much, you know, this, that and the other is. And you, you got me really thinking two, three years ahead and planning out those big purchases for the vehicles, trailers, equipment, stuff like that.

[John Pajak]

And you know, for me, that's the, that is the. If I could go back to the Johnny boy days, that's what I would. I would have grabbed myself by the collar, I would have shook. I would like. Listen, you are, you're, you're cutting your own throat. You don't know what you're doing. You know, I unfortunately had to. I had to learn from the blood, sweat, tears and years of struggling and failing over and over again. And that's not a bad thing. But at the same time, I'm trying to help others avoid all of that. Mainly because it's not the failure part, what I'm really trying to do is condense time because out of all the things that we have available to us, I could always make more money. I could replace equipment. I could, unfortunately, you know, people come and go. I could, I could get new employees and things like that. The thing I cannot get and I have to basically just leverage is time. Again, going back to, you know, what we first started talking about, you know, if you're in. If you're in a mess right now and you're afraid or you feel ashamed that you, you know, like, ah, I got to fix this myself before I let anybody else see the numbers. Get over it. It's going to cost you time. Time is invaluable. There's, you know, people say time is money. It's not it. That's nonsense. Time, money and time have no. Somebody duped us into thinking that those two are connected. I cannot go back and get 10 years of my life back. There's times I pray for it. I'm like, oh, man, that would have been so good if I could. If I could have just gone back and I would have had such an easier time or I wouldn't have had to go through all those struggles. It's like, yeah, they formed me into what I am today. If I would have had a mentor or someone to just talk to, and they again would have shook me by the collar and just, you're doing this wrong. Don't do that. You know, it would have saved me so much. I can only imagine where I'd be now. But again, that's. Time is when people start trying to compare time and money. I'm like, there's. They make money all the time. They print it off. It's not even funny anymore. They just. It's just not. It doesn't. There's nothing behind it anymore. You know, we used to be on a gold standard. Now we're not. They just make more money. Okay, that's great. It's basically worthless. I look at it. It's only a tool to get the things I need. It makes things easier to get, but it's not the whole purpose, you know, for me, honestly, anytime I can, if I have to spend money to save time, I consider it. Not everything is worth it, but sometimes there's things that come along and you're like, yeah, this is definitely going to be worth whatever monetary value I have to put towards it. Or maybe it is a little bit of time to get even more time. That's a whole discussion we could have.

[Paul Jamison]

Yeah. My cleaning company came yesterday And I hired a cleaning company. They come once a week. Now my friend Myron, they come three times a week because that's my goal. But right now, budget wise I can afford once a week. But they came and they cleaned my whole place. So yesterday I was able. I started working about 8am, went to about 9pm Yesterday was a focus day for me. I worked all day long. I took a break to go on a walk and I took a break to eat lunch. But I worked all day yesterday. But I saved myself time. I didn't have to clean. Like I went to bed and my bed was made and like my whole place is clean and, and I worked on. Myron calls him mma, making money activities. So yesterday I just worked all day on making money activities and I was able to do so. And I didn't have to like clean or anything. Everything was cleaned for me. So yeah, if you. But it saved me time by, by paying the cleaning lady, you know, their company. It saved me time.

[John Pajak]

And you know, Paul, you make a great point and maybe people aren't thinking of it this way. They might go, oh man, Paul's bougie because he gets a maid come out and clean his house. I don't, I don't look at it like that. I al. Also, if you look at that inside your own business, okay, if you're doing something and you could pay somebody 15 bucks an hour to do it, is it really worth your time to do it? Because I'm just saying, like I'm not trying to sound like I am some high power CEO of a lawn care company because I'm not. I'm, you know, I'm, I got a great business that takes care of me, my family, the people that work with me. Things are great, but I don't necessarily want to go around and pass out the like the flyers and the door hangers anymore, you know, that don't get me wrong, I'm the guy that I would rather pay somebody and I do this. I, you know, I got, I got little, you know, nephew. Well, they're little, they're grown folks now. But you know, there's times with my nieces and stuff that, that, that have cars, they could go and drive around. I will pay them, you know, a set amount of money to go pass out these door hangers. My time is not, is better spent creating the ideas for those door hangers or for promotional ads or things like that. You know, I could, you know, there' a few place, a few softwares that I use to actually deliver postcards to the, the houses I want.

[Paul Jamison]

Wow.

[John Pajak]

It's not like a, you know, the U.S. postal Service where they, you, you buy a route and it covers like all of these homes. I've done that before and it's kind of a waste because sometimes it goes to multifamily homes, like apartment buildings, or it goes to businesses that I'm not targeting or goes to like an abandoned house, you know, just because it's in the route. I, I read rather spend a little bit of money and pick out exactly which homes I want it delivered to and I pay for a service that does that so that I can go ahead and make some really killer postcards. Now I could probably outsource that too, but I kind of, besides doing the, the numbers thing, the marketing has actually turned into something that I find a lot of fun in because it lets me be creative and it's like, oh, look at this, you know, so, but again, you know, if you. We always used to use the analogy of wearing like a bunch of hats. You know, like a lot of business owners wear like 30 hats on their head. Right. We have to start thinking of how we could take each one off, put it on someone else, delegate that work. Even if it's not a full time employee, it could just be maybe a virtual desk or maybe like I said, you know, my nieces, I could just take a hat off and be like, hey, you're gonna canvas this area for me and I'm gonna give you money and it'll be fair. And they're like, yeah, no problem, that's great. Okay. They love it because it's, you know, they, they know that if they could spend a day, they're gonna make, you know, 150 bucks just by walking around a neighborhood they're already in. So anyway, trying to spend a little money sometimes just to free yourself up, it's not a bad thing.

[Paul Jamison]

Crest Commercial is the only solution for commercial landscapers to convert to electric with the power of gas, no downtime. With their 8 minute charging system and industry disrupting warranties that offer 6 years or 3000 full life cycles on the Cyberpack batteries, there is no reason to not make the switch. To find out more about the free demos and how you can start saving up to $2,000 per year per crew. Visit crest.com today to find your local dealer. Most jobs go to the first contractor that picks up the phone, but you can't answer the phone when you're on a lawnmower. So here's a solution. It's called a Voice assist by CallRail. I'm going to show you how it works. I'm going to call a pest control company that uses voice assist. Take a listen.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Hi. Thanks for calling the pest patrol. I'm Betty, a virtual assistant. What's bugging you?

[Paul Jamison]

Hey Betty, I wanted to see if you could schedule somebody to come out, take a look at my property and give me a quote for pest control. I was looking for yearly service.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Sure, I can help with that. Do you have any questions about our services before we get started collecting some details?

[Paul Jamison]

We what would it cost to come once a quarter?

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

We offer a quarterly service plan with four treatments per year. The cost typically ranges from $350 to $480 annually. Keep in mind, final pricing depends on an in person evaluation.

[Paul Jamison]

Yeah, let's get one scheduled.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Can I have your first and last name, please?

[Paul Jamison]

Paul Jamison.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

I've got several openings. For example, on Thursday, March 19, we have 10am 10:30am, 11am and more throughout the afternoon. Would any of those work for you?

[Paul Jamison]

Yeah, 10am Works.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Your appointment is confirmed for Thursday, March 19th at 10am and a confirmation email has been sent. Could you share the address of the location where you'd like the service?

[Paul Jamison]

Sure. It's 1234 Main Street.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Is there anything else I can assist you with today?

[Paul Jamison]

Oh, that's it. Thank you so much, Betty.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Thank you for your call.

[Paul Jamison]

Well, did you hear that? That's callrails voice assist. It's so good, it speaks for itself. You can qualify more leads, book more jobs and stop losing opportunities to businesses down the street. Try for free@voice assist.com Again, that's voice

assist.com Lawn care and landscaping pros, listen up. If you're tired of guessing your way through pricing, marketing, hiring and sales, this is your wake up call. The LCR summit hits downtown Louisville October 19th and 10th 20th at the Galthouse the same week as Equip. And it's gonna change the way you run your business forever. This is not another sit and listen event. It's two full days of hands on workshops from leaders who've actually built what you're trying to build. Neylor Taliaferro shows you how to generate better leads through smarter marketing. Paul Jamison teaches content that converts. John Pajak breaks down your numbers so you'll stop working for cheap. Eric Triplett, the pond digger, reveals how he built a multi million dollar business making more money with less work. Plus, you'll have a surprise guest speaker. Add in live Q and A panels, powerful networking and an Exclusive VIP dinner with all the speakers. When you purchase at the platinum level, grab tickets and infocrsummit.com or just tap the link in the podcast description. That's LCR summit dot com. Stop guessing. Start growing. Build the business you've always imagined at the LCR Summit.

What are your thoughts about Crest commercial and financially? How would you compare and contrast gas powered equipment versus, you know, high quality battery powered equipment like Crest?

[John Pajak]

Okay, I'm just going to say I love it. I was very skeptical at first. I'm a gearhead by nature. I love machines. You know, I love tearing them apart, I love rebuilding them. The thing is, as a business owner, you know, I got tired of, you know, people I had, I like again, I had guys that wouldn't mix the fuel properly. We'd have, we'd have separate tanks just for mixed fuel and either they wouldn't, they'd forget to put the oil in or they didn't put enough in. They were, it's like I got to the point where I was just like, just take this two ounce bottle and dump it in here and it will be enough. Because before is for economic reasons, I was buying the big jugs and he had to measure it all out and everything. Even though that's way more economical. Guys are blowing up machines. So I said, we went back to the single serve bottles in the, in the gas well. We had problems with that. We had problems with people complaining about noise and everything. I started looking at it from a financial point, not okay. Crest was the only one that I've looked at that delivered the power and longevity from their batteries that made me go, well, this could be viable. When I, of course I'm a nerd and I've got to start looking at how much money it costs to operate these things. It was Paul, it's crazy. I know you've seen me in action on the whiteboard going nuts on this, right? But it turned out that I started seeing how much savings that the Crest power equipment can provide for a business because not only. And here are the two key things. One, they cover all of their stick equipment. Their, their trimmers or edgers or blowers. The, the equipment, the tool itself is basically almost the same price as the gas counterpart. And, but they have a three year warranty on it. Whereas if you're using anybody else, any, any gas powered equipment for commercial use, you only get a one year warranty on it. And again, this is why I put a one year ROI on a lot of that piece of those pieces of equipment. Because the warranty runs out after a year. If you're using it commercially, if you're using it as a residential unit, you get a two year warranty. Okay, what? You know, if you got a dealer, maybe they could help you out. I don't know. But that's step one. Now a lot of guys see the batteries and they get sticker shock. The thing is the Crest warranties and guarantees those batteries for six years. So instead of like taking that into one season, you're looking at, I break it down into six years for that piece for those batteries. When you start looking at that and you start getting into the mindset that you're actually purchasing your fuel upfront for the next six years, that changes the whole dynamic. Because I don't know about you, but you know, there's times when I drive by the, the gas station and I'm like, oh man, this is gonna hurt when the guys come fill up, you know, because you know, we've seen, you know, five dollar gas, you know, and then the next day it's 450 and then the next day it's 489. And then like it's a roller coaster, you know, I'm literally gambling when I'm trying to figure out like my budget for fuel. And now I have ways of doing it. It's been tracking it for a very long time. I just know how much fuel each piece of equipment takes. So I could get an average. And I know, okay, when they go fill up, it's going to sting. But you know, this is going to be a $500 day when they fill up, you know, but when it comes to Crest and their battery, not only do they have fantastic batteries that are not like anybody else's, they don't. They have a whole line of lithium powered batteries. But that's not the commercial. The commercial batteries are a completely different blend. They have so much time power built into it that really you could, you could almost just have two batteries per piece of equipment and get through a full day of mowing just because you could switch back and forth because they recharged so fast and everything. But anyway, getting back to it, when you look at what it costs to actually recharge the batteries, we're talking like 15. Like this is pretty close to nationwide. But I remember when I did the break, the cost breakdown, it was like 15 cents per kilowatt, right? It would like to recharge the batteries overnight or you don't even have to with, with Crest, you don't necessarily have to do it overnight. They charge within. They have a very fast recharge time. If you have the cybertank, you could charge them in eight minutes. I mean think about that. That's just ridiculous. From 0 to 100 in 8 minutes. It's nuts. Even if you don't have the cyber tank and you just recharge them with a different charger that they have, it's still a very short amount of time to get that power. But when you look at it and you start looking at like, okay, this is what it costs for my fuel, the electricity to power those batteries out. It literally outweighs over the, over that six year time period. You are saving so much money. You basically are know exactly what it's going to cost you. Instead of like gambling at the gas pump and trying to figure out like man, am I gonna do I have enough money in our fuel account right now to cover fueling up. It's like, no, we, we, we've got this equipment here and it just dollars and cents. It makes so much sense. So again, I take a lot of flack for this because they're like, oh, you're selling, you, you know, you went gravel back mechanic went electric and blah blah, blah. I'm like, well I didn't go completely electric. The only ones that I consider are crests. And it's because of the fact that after I've ran the numbers on it, it just makes, it makes dollars and it makes sense.

[Paul Jamison]

And you're procress from a financial perspective, but just from common sense, like it's so annoying to hear a gas powered blower. Like I'll be out creating content with you know, for like Instagram reels and everything and I'll go to film a video and then like I hear a gas power blower and now I'm like, that's so annoying. And I have to like wait until he's done and then I start talking and then it's just, it's so loud. But what Larry was telling me from, you know, Mike and Larry from, from good old New Jersey, like his team members, you know, these are buff, strong, manly guys, like their gas. And then he first brought the crest on scene and they're like, get that bleepily bleep out of here. What the is that nonsense? Right? And now they're like, hey, we only, we only want to work on the crew that has the crest because it's so much more quiet. Like you can literally use their backpack blower and talk to somebody and carry out like you And I could have a conversation together why I have the backpack blower. Yeah, on full, you know, full go. So I think even from a market perspective, more and more people, especially that work at home, they don't want to hear the loud engines going while their kids taking a nap, while they're on a, you know, a zoom call or Microsoft Teams or Google Meet or whatever they use. They don't, they don't want the noise outside of the house. And there's actually a way you can serve the customer with that by still providing a powerful, you know, you're not losing strength in the actual string trimmer blower, etc. Because Crest Commercial does provide that. Now, a lot of the other battery powered equipment is underwhelming and I wouldn't recommend it.

[John Pajak]

But I agree with you, Paul. It's not, not to, you know, blast any other company or anything, but, you know, you're going to be, you're going to need a whole wall of batteries just to get through the day. But, you know, you bring up another point. The, the sound of it again, times are changing. There's, you know, ever since 20, 20, more and more people. Even though most people kind of went back to work, you know, at work, there's still a lot of people that are at home now and they're conducting their, their business from home. So, you know, as podcasters, you know, if we have somebody that's outside running equipment, it's like, okay, now I get where some people would complain about the noise of this thing, but it's kind of like a necessary, it's necessary, you know, to get the job done effectively. But, you know, I, I know you talk about the, the backpack blower. I fell in love with their handheld. They had, their handheld blower is the equivalent of some backpack blowers. Now, I'm not talking about the absolute top tier, but I'm talking like, you know, at least the, like the 600 level. It, you know, those handhelds can match that power. And for most of us, until you start getting into like cleanups and things like that, that's when you would want the backpack blower. But for quick cleanups, if you're just blowing grass off of a sidewalk in the driveway or like, in my business, we're doing granular fertilizer, we got to blow those that off the street and off the, all the hard surfaces. That handheld is awesome. And it's small, like it's just ergonomically balanced with the battery on it. It feels good. It's got tons of power. You know, I mean, what else can you say? It's super quiet too. Like you said, we could have a conversation. You hear it. It's not like it's not silent, but it's definitely, you could still. I don't have to yell if, you

[Paul Jamison]

know, it's a win win for the operator, the actual human being using it. I mean, long term, it's going to save their ear. And I would still recommend having ear protection, like in general, like protect your ears. You don't need it with the Crest commercial. But I'm saying most guys, like, I'll see somebody out there with a, you know, a steel or a Echo backpack blower and they're not even wearing ear protection. And I'm thinking, bro, your hearing is going to suffer from that. But with Crest commercial, you got the operator. It's better for them and it's way better for the consumer because they don't have the noise on their property. So just from that perspective, I'm not talking the dollars and cents like you talked about. I'm just talking practically speaking. There is a growing market. Our friend Greg Chisholm says the trend is your friend. And the trend is more and more customers want their service provider to offer quieter equipment. And I think you can charge more when you sell your services to say, hey, we, we use battery powered equipment, so we're not going to be making all this noise while we're servicing your property. And that. And that's part of why we charge premium pricing.

[John Pajak]

Yeah. And I mean, you could spin it into, again, like you said, spin that into an advantage. Because it is an advantage. You know, I, some of our services, you know, we have these tanks that are in the back of our truck. We're skid sprayers. And the motor is out there and it's like a little Honda engine that powers that unit. And most people even it's far enough away from the street or from the house so they don't really hear it. They hear something, but they can't quite figure out what it is. I was talking to Chris, I'm like, what if we did? Can you guys like have like an electric power unit that could power pumps like that? That way we could put them inside our vans or inside the trailer. We don't have fumes and everything. And they're like, you know, they're, they're, they'll develop it eventually. But you know, all that electric stuff, it's like sometimes the, the customer doesn't even know we're there. The only reason they know that we were there is because they see the sign in the, in the, in the yard, they got the tag on their door saying we were there and, and you know, an email notification saying that, you know, you're, they're like, where were you? It's like, well if you look, you can see, you can see your lawn's already looking better. Second, you can see our footsteps or the tire tracks from, from our equipment. But anyway, going electric, I'm not saying that that is the, it's going to be the best solution for everybody, but that's definitely, if you're looking, look at Cress when it comes to the electric powered equipment because in my opinion they have the best lineup and the cost savings is ridiculous. Just, you just got to get past that sticker shock of the initial purchase. But once you do that equipment's gonna, because the thing is if the battery goes bad before that six years, they'll give you a brand new battery. I mean they just stand behind everything. You break a piece of equipment, they'll get you a new new tool. So it, it, it really does make a lot of sense.

[Paul Jamison]

Well, I appreciate your time today, John. If you're just tuning in, I've been talking with financial expert John Pajak. He helps businesses fix their numbers, fix their finances, understand their numbers better. And he's going to be speaking at this year's LCR Summit in Louisville, Kentucky, happening October 19th through 20th. And he's also going to be my guest at the morning show on Thursday, October 22nd in Room B103 at the Kentucky Exposition Center. And we'll be having a casual conversation up there, but we're going to theme it around helping a lawn care business owner know your numbers. That's, that's John's wheelhouse and that's what we're going to serve the room with, that valuable information. So you can join us in person at the LCR Summit Louisville. If you're listening on Apple and Spotify, Mr. Producer will put the link in the show notes to get your LCR Summit tickets. And then the morning show is free, you know, assuming you have your Equip Expo ticket because some of the add ons you have to pay extra for. Not the morning show. Thank fully. We have a sponsor who now someone's got to pay for it because there's a bunch of food, donuts, bananas, coffee we have for you. Pardon me, Relco picked up the tab on that. So shout outs to our friends at Relco, they sponsored the morning show so you guys can enjoy free Donuts and, and all of that, so. But that's, that's happening Thursday, October 22, in Room B, 103, Mallard Island Lawn Service. Our friend David from Arkansas in the house, he says, so are you going to be coming to the LCR Summit again? I think he'll be there. Well, anyways, is there anything. I know we covered a lot of ground here, John, and I appreciate your time with your travels recently and everything. I'm very thankful to you, you know, giving us some of your time today. Is there anything we're leaving out here that needs addressed?

[John Pajak]

Oh, man, I could go on forever. But I think we're. I think we're pretty good here. You know, we talked about the summit, we talked about Equip and the morning show at Equip and some extra bonus stuff. I think. I think we're good here.

[Paul Jamison]

Cool. Well, thank you so much for your time, John. And time's been flying by this year, so a blink of an eye, we're going to be in good old Lord willing in Louisville, Kentucky for the LCR Summit and the Equip Expo. I'm really looking forward to it, so.

[John Pajak]

Me too. I can't wait. So, yeah, it just. Do you mind if I throw a little something out there?

[Paul Jamison]

Yep, throw it out there.

[John Pajak]

People are interested. You know, Profits with Paycheck is available on all of every single podcast library, just like Paul's. But if you're interested in hearing more things dedicated to this type of topic, making more profits with your business, come and check us out. Profits with PayJack.

[Paul Jamison]

Yeah, and if I can shout out real quick, I'm. I'm. I'm working on this new book, Cut that Grass and make that Cash the second Edition. And I give John Pajak. I was talking with Mr. Producer about this because he's editing it and he's like, you know, you're giving John a lot of love in the book. And that's because in the book, I'm providing the fundamentals to everything about knowing your numbers. But I'm like, it's such a personalized thing because none of our numbers are the same. And like, you, you even. Oh, like, you even shared. Like, you. It starts at home, like, what is your rent or mortgage? What is your. You know, I know your daughter Claire, she's in, like, karate and all that, like. And I don't have any kids, so you have. And I don't know what all those expenditures are for your daughter, but I don't have any kids yet, so I don't even have you know, I'm not buying diapers. And I was talking to my friend last night. He has four kids and he's like a two year old, a five year old, an eight year old. And he was telling me all this, like, you know, he's like. Because I was like, man, I want to be like you, you know, have four kids and a wife. He's like, well, I want to be like you golfing every day. And we're like, oh, like the grass is always greener on the other side, you know? But my point is, it's all like, personalized numbers. So that's why in the book, I'm like, reach out to John Pajak and. And help, you know, get. Get a look at your specific life circumstances so your numbers can line up with, like, your real life, you know?

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Yeah. Your business should support your life, not. Not the other way around, so. Good.

[Paul Jamison]

All right.

And David's in the comments as well, from Arkansas, so.

[John Pajak]

VIP dinner. Yeah, he knows he already got his

[Paul Jamison]

ticket to the VIP dinner happening. That'll be Monday night, October 19, off site. Lots of laughs. I was in tears laughing last year, actually. David spurred the. The laughter with his.

[John Pajak]

Right.

[Paul Jamison]

With his jokes about his.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

We.

[Paul Jamison]

We can't even say it on here, John.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, just. Just.

[Paul Jamison]

He made me cry laughing with his stories.

[John Pajak]

It's. David's a great character. He. He's a light. A lot of life experience and a lot of fun stuff.

[Paul Jamison]

Yeah. So he was telling us stories and. And I. I could not contain my laughter. I laughed so hard, I asked some good times.

[John Pajak]

So. See, that's why you need to be at the VIP dinner. You know, it's stuff we can't talk about in real life because it's just it. Where. Where do we fit that in? You know, we. You just need to be there to experience.

[Paul Jamison]

It was a fun night. Alrighty, John. I gotta get. I gotta get rolling. But again, he's John Pajak. Check out his podcast profits with paycheck and come hang out with us in person at the LCR summit in Louisville, Kentucky, October 19th and 20th.

[Betty (Virtual Assistant)]

Peace.

[Paul Jamison]

All righty. That ends the live stream right there. And let me end the podcast again, friend. Show notes. We'll have your ticket information for LCR Summit Louisville. If you can grab that VIP ticket for the dinner Monday night with all of us, grab one. If they're sold out, I apologize. And then, you know, if you haven't already gotten your Equip Expo ticket, you can grab that there as well. And we'll see you soon. In Louisville, Kentucky.

Hey, it's Marty, producer of the Green Industry podcast. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services that you heard about during the episode. And thanks for listening.