This week, we lost one of the true pioneers of near-death research. PMH Atwater passed away, and as a tribute to her, I'm re-releasing the very first interview I ever recorded with her back in 2019 — before she knew who I was, before I knew what I was doing, and before I understood what a gift those three conversations would turn out to be.

If you've ever wondered what death actually feels like, whether thoughts are things, or how a person survives dying not once but three times in a single year — this episode is for you.

PMH interviewed nearly 5,000 near-death experiencers over more than four decades. In this conversation, she doesn't just tell you what she found in other people's stories. She tells you her own.

In this episode, you'll hear:

✨ How PMH's three near-death experiences in 1977 — January 2nd, January 4th, and March 29th — nearly destroyed her body while completely rebuilding her understanding of reality

✨ The "litany against fear" she adapted from Dune and chanted by the hour to survive her recovery — and why she's sharing it with you

✨ Her encounter with Elizabeth Kübler-Ross at O'Hare Airport that launched her research career — with no university, no funding, no roadmap

✨ What she means when she says "thoughts are things," and how she came to that conclusion while dying

✨ The voice that told her, "You are to do the research. One book for each death" — and what that meant for the rest of her life

✨ Why she made the film As You Die, and why the Catholic Church stepped in to help distribute it

A few lines that will stay with you:

"Fear is the mind killer. It is the little death. I will pass through my fear. It will go around me and through me. And when it is gone, I will remain.""When you die, you don't become someone else than you were. You are.""Any death in a way is an opening to something else... And if we embrace that, then it can be joyful."

About PMH Atwater

PMH Atwater began researching near-death experiences in 1978, becoming one of the founding figures in the field alongside Raymond Moody. Over more than 40 years, she interviewed close to 5,000 adult and child experiencers and authored nearly 20 books, including Coming Back to Life, Future Memory, Beyond the Light, and I Died Three Times in 1977 — The Complete Story. She lectured at the United Nations, appeared on Larry King Live and Geraldo, and remained a leading voice in near-death studies until her passing.

Learn more about her work at pmhatwater.com.

What resonated with you in this one? I'd love to hear which part of PMH's story stayed with you. Drop a comment below or reach out — I read every one.

If this episode moved you, please share it. PMH spent her life making sure these stories didn't get lost. The least we can do is keep passing them on.

You've been listening. You're doing the work. But there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place.

Maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back.

I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you.

All of it, pay what you want. You decide what it's worth. Nobody gets turned away because of money.

https://grief2g

The International Association for Near-Death Studies or IANDS will host its annual conference at the Hyatt Regency in Bellevue. The event features an all-star lineup of keynotes like Proof of Heaven Author Eben Alexander, MD, and Dying to Be Me Author Anita Moorjani. I Early bird registration rates are available through July 15.

Visit IANDS.org to register

Want to go deeper? My Substack is where I share solo essays on grief, consciousness, and continuing bonds — thoughts that don't always make it into the podcast. It's also home to a community of listeners who get it, because they're living it too. Free to subscribe. Find it at substack.com/grief2growth.

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