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- [00:02]
Mindy
Pinna.
- [00:04]
Progressive Ad Announcer
You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [00:43]
Jonathan Kormer
Hello boils and ghouls. It is I, the Scarerator. I've been dying to welcome you to this very last stop on the Kooky Spooky Countdown. Do you have your flashlight?
- [01:01]
Progressive Ad Announcer
Good.
- [01:02]
Jonathan Kormer
Your blanket to hide under?
- [01:05]
Adam Gidwitz
Yes.
- [01:06]
Jonathan Kormer
Your courage? Excellent, because you're going to need it. Okay, okay. I'm sorry. I just couldn't help myself. Hi, I'm Jonathan Kormer, the host of Dorktail Storytime. And ever since I was a kid, I. I've loved scary stories. I was a huge fan of R.L. stine's Goosebumps. His stories helped me explore the unknown and taught me how to cope with my fears. And that, my friends, is what the Spooky season is all about. Facing our fears, having fun with the dark and mysterious, and realizing we're braver than we think. That's why three of your favorite family friendly podcasts conjured up the Kooky Spooky Countdown challenge to just for you. Together, Grim Grimmer, Grimmest, Unspookable, and Dorktail Storytime have given you 13 episodes full of thrills, chills and ghostly giggles. And look at you. You made it all the way to the end of the countdown. And we have something extra special for your grand finale. Elise Parisian, the host of Unspookable, sits down with Adam Gidwitz, the creator and host of Grim Grimmer Grimmest and and New York Times best selling author, to talk about scary stories themselves. Why do we tell them? What purpose do they serve? And what has Adam learned in all his years of studying and retelling Grimm's fairy tales? It's a conversation you don't want to miss. So gather close, my little creatures of the night. Perhaps Adam will finally answer the question, why do so many of us go crazy for the creepy?
- [03:05]
Adam Gidwitz
Did you know that you can listen to Grim Grimmer Grimmest without any ads interrupting the story? Just subscribe to Pinna. Not only will you get to hear me tell these fairy tales straight through the way I tell them to kids, you get access to tons of other awesome. Original shows and audiobooks all ad free. Subscribe to pinna at Pinna FM. That's P I N N A FM and use code GRIM with two M's to get 30% off an annual subscription. And remember, it's not a Smurf.
- [03:40]
Mindy
Patrick, let's go. The clue is floating away in the hot air balloon. Hey, sorry, this is kind of a bad time. Claire and I just found AM and now it's airborne. Anyway, I wanted to let you know that the parents behind Law and Order have something brand new for families. Our podcast, Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries. Patrick, it's headed towards the water tower. Gotta go listen on Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [04:11]
Elise Parisian
Happy spooky season everyone. I'm Elise Parisian, host of the podcast Unspookable. And from all of us involved, we hope you've been enjoying the kooky spooky countdown of hand picked episodes from the podcasts Dorktails Unspookable and Grim Grimmer Grimmest. As our scare reader Jonathan shared, this is the last stop on our journey and today we are thrilled to welcome to the show the creator and host of Grim Grimmer, Grim Grimace and New York Times best selling author, Adam Gidwitz. Adam, thank you for joining us.
- [04:48]
Adam Gidwitz
Hi Elise, it is so nice to meet you. I'm a big fan of what you do on your podcast and I'm really excited to be here and talking to you.
- [04:56]
Elise Parisian
Likewise. Now, before we get spooky, what kind of kid were you? The type who loved scary stories or the one who slept with a nightlight?
- [05:08]
Adam Gidwitz
I did not love scary stories as a kid and I'm going to admit something really terrible and probably everyone in your audience is going to stop listening as soon as I say this. Are you ready? I don't even really like scary stories. Now that's not true. I love telling scary stories, but I don't love hearing them. It's much more fun to scare other people than to be scared yourself. So I love scaring myself by trying to tell the scariest story I can or. But I don't want to hear you tell me a scary story that's going to give me nightmares. So. Absolutely. As a kid I read like mysteries. I loved Encyclopedia Brown adventure stories like Tintin, but now scary stuff. I'm way, way too nervous scared. I'm not that kind of guy.
- [05:56]
Elise Parisian
Can you remember the first story that really scared you?
- [06:00]
Adam Gidwitz
The first story that really scared me was almost certainly from. Oh no, I was going to say something wrong. I thought it was going To Be Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, the Alvin Schwartz Collection, which is just a fantastic book. But no, the first and best scary stories I ever heard. And I did love these, I must admit. There was a counselor at the summer camp I went to. I went to a summer camp in New Hampshire, but there they brought in this one counselor from England, and he had this incredible voice. He was much older than the other counselors, and he had the most amazing original, I think, scary stories that he would tell. And he would. We would do it around the campfire and he would tell. I remember one scary story about a man in a manor house. I didn't even know what a manor house was. And, like, this purple fog creeping across the lawn or another one where this guy was, like, holding a gun and this creature was coming closer and closer. It was a lot about, like, people sitting there as something terrifying came closer and closer. His first name is Andrew. And I would love to find this counselor again because, yeah, he taught me what it feels like to hear a good scary story. And I guess I got to admit, if it's a really good one, if it's told really well the way that you guys do, the way that I try to do, if it's got maybe some humor as well as some, like, artistry and also the scares. Yeah, I guess I like scary stories.
- [07:29]
Elise Parisian
Fair enough. It's the whole paradox of scary stories. It's like the movie doesn't always feel good in the moment, but it's also a lot of fun.
- [07:38]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah.
- [07:38]
Elise Parisian
When you tell a spooky story, do you feel like you ever scare yourself a little bit?
- [07:44]
Adam Gidwitz
Very honestly, I have to. If I am not legitimately scared by the story I'm telling, you're not going to be. Yeah. And it's the same with all of the feelings that I try to create in my stories. When I'm writing a story, if I don't literally laugh out loud at a joke that I'm writing or something funny that I'm writing, it doesn't go in because it's not funny enough. And if by the end I don't have tears in my eyes at the cathartic resolution, then you're not going to. And so it doesn't go in. It's gotta improve. And certainly with the scary parts, if I don't feel my heart beating faster, if there's not, like, a tingling at the ends of my fingers, then I know that you won't feel any of those things. And so it doesn't go in. And now I Have to admit something which is not only do I have to feel those feelings, I also, when I'm writing, always tell my stories out loud to myself. And then I write down what I'm saying. I used to be a teacher, and the oral storytelling tradition is really important to me. And very much what I do and you do. And I write usually in the park. Like, I just came back from writing in the park this morning. And so I will be talking out loud to myself, writing a story, and I'm laughing if it's funny and I'm scaring myself and like, I'm getting teary. I look like a crazy person. But that's the only way I can write a good story for you all.
- [09:05]
Elise Parisian
Well, I know we appreciate your dedication, the emotional dedication to telling a good story.
- [09:10]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah, you appreciate me humiliating myself in public for your enjoyment. I'm not surprised that you did, but I'm glad.
- [09:17]
Elise Parisian
So here's a big one. Why do you think that people seek out scary stories?
- [09:23]
Adam Gidwitz
So I usually think of this through the lens of scary fairy tales in particular, but I believe this is absolutely true for all scary stories. Fairy tales in particular are tell the story of a kid almost always going through really difficult things and. And then coming out the other side I really, really believe in. I love stories with happy endings. I want scary, terrifying things to happen all through the middle, but at the end, I usually want some sort of triumph. And that's because I think scary stories are an attempt for us to practice the hard task of living, of growing up, of getting through difficult stuff. I mean, if you think about, like, what a kid's life is like from the outside, a teenager or a kid, you know, they are literally forced to go somewhere every day that they didn't choose to go to. They have to listen to whoever happens to be in charge in the room they happen to be in in that moment without any choice. Sometimes they're like, okay, take off your clothes, put on some other weird clothes that are probably stinky and go run around and do uncomfortable things in front of other people. Right. Like if an adult wouldn't put up with any of this stuff. But kids. And then who knows who's in those rooms with you? Maybe your best friend, maybe some kids who are super mean. Maybe you have a crush on somebody over there and everyone else is going to find out about it. It's literally terror all the time. So horror stories and fairy tales, scary fairy tales give us a chance to experience things that are hard scary and then realize that we can get through them, it is about the process of growing up and getting stronger and getting wiser. So that's. That's why I think it's valuable to tell them.
- [11:13]
Elise Parisian
Yeah, 100%. I really resonate with so much of what you just said. And I think our next question kind of gets into. Narrows down even a little bit more into what you were saying. And I think our unspokable listeners may have a strong opinion about this, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Can scary stories actually teach us something important about life, or are they just for fun?
- [11:35]
Adam Gidwitz
If you've listened to Grim, Grim or Grimace, you know that I tell these scary fairy tales, but also you hear the kids that I'm telling the stories to react in real time as I tell the stories. And that, to me, is the most valuable part of it or often the most enjoyable also, because kids are processing and dealing and you get to hear how another kid processes and deals with these scary or unfair things. So much of what happens in these fairy tales is deeply unfair. There's one of my favorite episodes is called the Crab Man's Daughter. It's based on a grim fairy tale. No, not a grim fairy tale. An old German fairy tale by Franz Sava von Schoenvert called the Jaws of the Merman. And in this story, there are these girls who start swimming in a lake and they start transforming into mermaids. And this king brings his other kingly friends and they want to force these girls to marry them. You should never force anyone to marry anybody. And the kid listeners are so furious about it. One girl says, you shouldn't give in. You should just revolution. Which is like, yes, you should just revolution. Love it. And then when the girls finally turn into mermaids, and then there's this. This bridge of water comes out of, like this giant mermaid rises out of the lake and opens her mouth and a bridge of water comes out onto the land, puts out the fire where these girls are going to be burned. And the girls walk over the fire into the jaws of the mermaid. This other girl says, we are women and we are terrifying. And again. Right. It's like, how do we take these unfair, scary situations that we are all actually often in? And how are we brave and terrifying ourselves? And how can we revolution? Because sometimes you need one.
- [13:33]
Elise Parisian
Tell me about it. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that perspective. It again. Yeah. Really resonates. Switching gears slightly, I do have a vocabulary quiz for you. Oh, no, I think you can do it. What is the difference between a myth, a folk tale, and a fairy Tale.
- [13:52]
Adam Gidwitz
Oh, gosh. Okay. So are you just like, couldn't we just look this up? Why are you putting me on the spot right now? Just to see whether I know or not?
- [14:01]
Elise Parisian
Yeah, It's a challenge.
- [14:03]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah, yeah.
- [14:04]
Elise Parisian
Adults don't know everything.
- [14:05]
Adam Gidwitz
It is a challenge. A myth, a folk tale, and a fairy tale. Okay, Well, I believe a myth is usually related to core beliefs of a group of people. You know, the Greek myths are not just stories, but they also relate to the core beliefs of. Of the ancient Greek population having to do with gods and explanation of natural events. So I think that's what myths are related to, like the core beliefs of group of people. I think off the top of my head, folk tales versus fairy tales. I mean, I have a very specific viewpoint and opinion on this. So in German, there is no. And most of the stories that I work with are from the German tradition. They're not called fairy tales. The Brothers Grimm called their stories merchen, which means household tales. And so they. When those household tales were first translated into English. The Grimm Brothers first published their Merchen in 1812. They were translated into English in about 1824, I think about 10, 12 years later. The English publishers were like, what are we going to call these? And in the English isle, the British Isles, there were already stories about fairies, certainly coming from, you know, the Celtic traditions and the Irish traditions and the northern English traditions as well as all over England. And they were like, oh, it's like fairy tales. So we'll call these fairy tales. But there are in the German stories, literally no fairies. Not one fairy in the grim fairy tales. So fairy tales have become like, what we call fairy tales, are modeled on essentially the Grimm fairy tales, which often have a younger protagonist who goes through some sort of, you know, Cinderella like transformation perhaps, or journey. Whereas a folk tale can really be any story that comes, is told in the oral tradition and comes from a group of people that is passed around. But really those fairy tales are just folktales. But it's a certain style of folktale that was then kind of misnamed when it was published in English. I don't know. You probably have a better and clearer answer than I have.
- [16:22]
Elise Parisian
No. This is why we asked you the question, because we get fun and incredible facts like that that, you know, Webster's Dictionary isn't just going to give us right off the top. Google search.
- [16:31]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah, Websters. Come on, get off your keister, Webster. Do better.
- [16:35]
Elise Parisian
Yeah, we love you, Merriam Websters.
- [16:39]
Adam Gidwitz
We do. We do.
- [16:40]
Elise Parisian
So what do you think makes a Great scary story for kids, different from one for grownups.
- [16:48]
Adam Gidwitz
That's very interesting. I recently got to interview a wonderful author who writes horror stories, mostly for grownups, though he wrote his first kids one recently. His name is Paul Tremblay. He wrote a really incredible adult novel just for adults called the Cabin at the End of the World. Terrifying. And one of the things about that story that is different from the one that the book that he wrote for young people called Another is, in Another, as scary as it is, there are glimmers of hope and then ultimately triumph and hope. I can't say that for the Cabin at the End of the World. You know, there is sort of sense in a lot of adult horror that things get bad and then really bad and then worse, and then everybody's dead. And I think in stories for young people, as I've said often, and what I prefer is things get bad and then really bad and then really bad, and then we find a way for cathartic triumph at the end. That's one of the differences that. That I hang my hat on and the reason that I tend to like telling stories for young people.
- [18:02]
Elise Parisian
That makes sense. And in your podcast, Grim Grimmer, Grimmest, you share stories of the Brothers Grim and leave. Say again, what was the German word that you used for household tales?
- [18:12]
Adam Gidwitz
Merchen. It's so you say merchen if you're from the north of Germany. In the south of Germany, you say merchan, but Merchin.
- [18:21]
Elise Parisian
Yeah, merchin. Can you tell us about them and some of their stories that we may be familiar with?
- [18:28]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah. So everybody knows, like, seven Grimm fairy tales, like Little Red Riding Hood, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Hansel and Gretel, Rapunzel, Rumpelstiltskin. We all know those stories. Some of those stories were first written down by the Brothers Grimm. Snow White, had they not written that story down. There are other kind of versions of him. But we would never know Snow White if it wasn't for them. Other stories like Cinderella, were already famous in other countries. That that story was made famous in France, though. It's a very old story that could go back as far as ancient Egypt or ancient China. We don't know where these stories come from, but they're sort of shared amongst peoples. And I'm going to take a little diversion. Just because you said you like weird and interesting facts, I'm going to tell you something weird and interesting. I don't think I've ever said this on in a recording before. So here we go. You guys are getting something brand new and Exciting, Very exciting. I'm excited. Just to tell you, I've had coffee this morning. Can you tell? I once went to a lecture at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, and it was about primate language. And so they were realizing that they had been studying groups of primates in Africa. There was a group of bonobos who were. Had certain language, sign language, that they used with each other, that they understood. And then they realized that this other group of bonobos across the continent also used the same signs, and they started investigating that. And then they realized that there were some chimps that are not the same as bonobos that also use similar signs or the same ones. And then they went out and out and out and they realized that there are five hand signals that all primates, including humans, understand. And they showed us a video to test us. There was a video of two chimps, and one chimp was eating a banana, and another chimp came up and put its hand out flat, like upside down, like palm facing up. And what do you think that other chimp was saying was like, give. Put its hand out flat.
- [20:38]
Elise Parisian
Please give some to me.
- [20:39]
Adam Gidwitz
Give it to me. Yeah, it's exactly what it was saying. And there was another chimp who was like. There was another video chimp or bonobo was like, doing something with some branches, like hitting a log with some branches and making a lot of noise. And this other primate, I think bonobo, came over and started making this motion with its hand, like, pushing it away with its. Just its hand in the air, meaning go away. Right. Like palm facing down, fingers going towards you. And we saw those and we immediately knew what those hand symbols meant. So even among different species of primates, we have a couple of shared words. And so as humans, we have stories that go back who knows how long. And Cinderella might be one of those. Anyway, that was a little diversion, but I think it's really cool that Cinderella, some version of Cinderella, could go back as far as cave culture. Yeah. Anyway, what are these stories about? So, you know, a lot of these stories, Rumpelstiltskin, Hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood. And then there are hundreds of others that most people don't know. And some of them are fantastic. Darling Roland is a story you can sit down and read and just be like, oh, my God, that was bloody and terrifying and amazing. Why didn't I know that story? There are. You know, one of the things about the German versions of the fairy tales is that they are often very bloody and scary. So Cinderella, in the French version is not bloody and scary. But Cinderella, in the German version, as a lot of kids know, to get the golden shoe to fit. In the German version, it's golden. The oldest stepsister is given a knife by her mother and fingers. Ready, everybody, please cover your ears or turn down the volume if you don't want to hear this. The oldest stepsister cuts off her big toe to get the shoe to fit. And the youngest one cuts off a chunk of her heel, which is just the best word of the use, chunk that I know. And then as they're riding away, there's blood, like, spurting out of the shoe. They're riding on the back of the horse, of the prince's horse, and he turns around, he sees this blood spurting out of the golden shoe. And he's like, wait a minute. You're not the right girl. Because he's smart like that. Right. So, anyway, those are the real Grimm versions of the fairy tales. But all these fairy tales are incredible stories of usually a young person going through weird and scary and funny events and then coming out the other side in some way wiser and stronger and better than they were before.
- [23:09]
Elise Parisian
I have heard the Cinderella story so many times, and it never ceases to turn my stomach a little bit.
- [23:18]
Adam Gidwitz
Yes, the Brothers Grimm were. They had a marvelous imagination for the macabre. There's one detail that I love so much. So they edited the stories many times over the course of their lives. First published in 1812, but they published many editions. And in the earliest edition of Sleeping Beauty, you know, you probably know in Sleeping Beauty, a prince has to, like, fight through this thicket of brambles to get to the tower where she's sleeping. Yeah. Well, in a later edition, one of the brothers, I believe it was. So there's Jacob and Wilhelm. Wilhelm. And so I believe it was Wilhelm wrote in a detail that as the prince is making his way through the thicket, he keeps seeing the skeletons of other dead princes who didn't make it through the thicket. It's just like, what. What a great detail to have invented. So that's. That's really who the Brothers Grimm are in a nutshell. Yeah.
- [24:19]
Elise Parisian
So as we're already speaking to a little bit, the Brothers Grimm have some pretty wild stories.
- [24:24]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah.
- [24:25]
Elise Parisian
Do kids ever surprise you with their reactions?
- [24:28]
Adam Gidwitz
Do kids ever not surprise me with their reactions? They always surprise me with their reactions. That's why it's so fun to record with them. That's what the joy of the podcast is. In season five, which has just come out, there is an episode where this girl goes to this creepy house and there's a creepy old lady. And this kid interrupts me and he's like, the creepy old ladies are always bad in these stories. They always do bad stuff. And I'm like, yeah, they. They frequently do. And he says, usually they treat the kids like soup. And I was like, like, like what? He's like, like soup? I was like, what do you mean they treat them like soup? And he's like, would they eat them? And I was like, yes, frequently they do eat them, but it's interesting to say that they treat them like soup. And then sure enough, later, the woman tries to make this girl into a stew. And I was like, buddy, you were right. You called it. And he's like, what are you talking about? I was like, what do you mean? You said he was gonna treat her like soup. And he was like, yeah, I just meant like. Like try to be mean to her. And I was like, no, but literally, she. Never mind. Anyway, so, yes, the kids are always constantly amusing me, surprising me. They get the soup.
- [25:41]
Elise Parisian
I love it.
- [25:42]
Adam Gidwitz
They get it.
- [25:43]
Elise Parisian
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah.
- [25:44]
Elise Parisian
What is your personal favorite of the Grimm's Fairy Tales?
- [25:49]
Adam Gidwitz
Honestly, I could never choose because if I had only one favorite, then I would not keep making these stories. Every season I have a new story or two that just blows my mind. So I know many unspookable listeners are a little bit older. You know, they can be teenagers. And so the last two episodes of season five of Grim Grimmer Grimmest would be for you all. It's. It's. We read, we rate each episode Grim, Grimmer or Grimmest. And this episode, these two episodes are Grimmest and like perhaps the Grimmest we've ever done. And they are based on a real grim fairy tale that I'm currently in love with called Two Travelers. And I will tell you a little bit about it, but if you would like to hear everybody, you need to be ready to turn down the volume because things get a little bit scary in the story. It's about two travelers who meet on the road. And one is an optimist, always looking forward to things, always think things are going to turn out well. The other is a pessimist, always prepared for the worst. And they really, they travel together, but they cannot understand each other. And they come to a forest and there's two paths to the forest. One is a two day path and the other is a seven day path. But it's very hard to predict which path you're gonna end up on. And they're in a town before they get there. And the pessimist buys seven days worth of food. But the optimist says, come on, we'll definitely find the right path. And only buys two days worth of food. And when they start through the forest, pretty soon they realize they're on the seven day path. And the optimist starts to starve and asks the pessimist, will you share some food with me? But the pessimist is a real jerk. And he's like, you should have been prepared. And the pessimist, the optimist is on the verge of starvation. And finally the pessimist agrees he'll give him some food if. And this is the terrible part, so please get ready to turn down the volume if the optimist will let the pessimist put out one of his eyes. So he does, and they keep going. And a little farther along, they still aren't out, and he desperately needs food. The optimist does. And so the pessimist puts out his other eye and gives him food. So now the optimist is blind. But when they get out of the forest, the pessimist leaves and the optimist stumbles across a gallows where there are two dead men hanging. And the dead men talk to the optimist and offer him their eyeballs, one of each. Whoa. Okay. And so the optimist gets new eyeballs and can see again. And through one eye, he sees as he always did, optimistically, but through the other eye, he sees pessimistically. And then there's a whole nother part of the adventure. And I'm not going to give it away, but let's just say revenge may come to the pessimist for what he did. It is surreal, and it's also really weird and philosophical. It's an amazing, very cool story. I hope you all listen and find out what happens at the end.
- [28:46]
Elise Parisian
Yeah, I'm so excited to hear what happens at the end. And I think. Did you say that was a grimace that was categorized? Grimaced?
- [28:52]
Adam Gidwitz
Oh, very much so. As grimmest as it gets.
- [28:56]
Elise Parisian
So maybe on the other end of the spectrum, what is one of the weirdest or funniest Brothers Grimm stories that you've ever read?
- [29:02]
Adam Gidwitz
One that I love is called Little Chick. This is in season one, and it's grim. And there are two kids and there's a mean old woman who wants to. Wait for it, turn them into soup, literally. So kid nailed it. He was right. And they try to run away from this woman, and as they're running Away. The woman sends her. Her son to go get them. Her son, who she calls Potato Head. And Potato Head is running after them, and the girl, he's gaining on them. And the girl turns to the boy, and she says, I know what we should do. I'll turn into a bush. And you turn into a rose on the bush. And he's like, what? What are you talking about? We're not magic. How are you going to turn into a bush? How I'm gonna turn into a rose? And she's like, just do it. So they do it. And then he comes. He doesn't understand. He doesn't see where they went. He goes back. He goes back to his mom, and she's like, potato Head, clearly, she was a bush, and he was the rose on that bush. Go get that. And he's like, how did you even know that? She's like, go get him again. So he goes chasing them again. They go running again. And as he's getting closer, the girl turns to the boy and says, I'm gonna turn into a church. And you turn into a steeple on that church. And the kid is like, what? How are you going to turn into a church? What kind of weird fever dream are we having right now? And she's like, just do it. So he does it. So he turns into a church, she turns into the steeple in the church. I think maybe I got it reversed. Anyway, Potato Head comes up, sees the church, goes back to his mom, and is like, I couldn't see them. I just saw a church. And she's like, you dund her head. She was the church, and he was the steeple of the church. And he's like, what are you talking about? So the mom's like, you got to do something. You got to do it yourself. So she starts chasing them. And this time, the girl says to the boy, you turn into a pond, and I will be a duck on that pond. And the boy is like, this is super weird, but okay. So he does it. He just somehow magically turns into a pond, and she turns into a duck. And when the woman who wants to make them into soup gets there, she knows exactly what they've done. So she starts to drink up the pond. And as she's drinking up the water, the duck swims up to her and grabs her by the nose and pulls her under, and she drowns. And then the boy and the girl turn back into a boy and a girl. And the boy is now missing a couple of toes because the woman drank him. And somehow the Woman must be in his body somehow. I'm not sure how that works. And the boy and the girl live happily ever after. Yeah.
- [31:27]
Elise Parisian
And they do not become soup.
- [31:29]
Adam Gidwitz
They did not become soup. The end. Yeah.
- [31:33]
Elise Parisian
Well, thank you for sharing these. Some of these stories with us.
- [31:37]
Adam Gidwitz
It is my extreme pleasure.
- [31:39]
Elise Parisian
I would love to hear from you. For the kids listening who want to tell their own spooky stories, what is your best spooky storytelling tip?
- [31:48]
Adam Gidwitz
Yes. So when kids try to tell scary stories, they often make one mistake. They think that what makes a story truly scary is all the horrible, bloody stuff that happens in the story. That is not what makes a story scary. What makes a story scary is there being a character that you care about and bad things might happen to that character. Yeah, Right. I could tell you a scary story right now with nothing scary in it. For example, once upon a time, there was a boy named me. And I was in seventh grade in class, and suddenly I really had to pee. I had to pee so badly. But I wasn't allowed to leave the classroom. And there was a test going on, and the clock was moving, and I was sure I was gonna pee in my pants and get. Sitting right next to me was the girl that I had the biggest crush on in the world. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna pee in my pants. Okay, I'm not gonna tell you the end of the story. It's not a true story. I just made it up. But already we're scared. Cause we're like, no, nothing bad happened, but you have a character you care about and bad things might happen to them. That's how you create a scary story that.
- [32:59]
Elise Parisian
Yeah, I was scared. I was scared for you there for a minute.
- [33:02]
Adam Gidwitz
There you go. Thank you. Yeah, don't worry. I was fine. I went to the bathroom.
- [33:07]
Elise Parisian
I'm glad. I'm glad for you and your bladder.
- [33:08]
Adam Gidwitz
Yeah. Thank you.
- [33:10]
Elise Parisian
And finally, for kids who want to explore more age appropriate spooky stories, where would you recommend they look?
- [33:18]
Adam Gidwitz
Oh, well, I mean, first of all, as these podcasts that you've just mentioned, Unspookable, Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest, and what's the third one in the spooktacular challenge?
- [33:28]
Elise Parisian
Dorktails.
- [33:29]
Adam Gidwitz
Oh, and Dorktails, of course. Yes. Those are great places to start. And obviously, kids know a bunch of other good podcasts, like Greeking out and stuff like that, of great scary stories, if you're ready for things that are a bit scary, like quite scary. The Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz. Dan Poblacki has a new series of scary stories that pick up where Alvin Schwartz left off. His name is Dan Poe Blocki. If you search his name and search scary stories, you will find his new books. Theirs are excellent. And then there are tons of, you know, you can go pick up Grimm's fairy tales, you know, and see, just flip around. You're going to find some weird ones and some silly ones and some pretty messed up stories. Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:13]
Elise Parisian
Awesome. Well, Adam, thank you so much for your time today. This has been a pleasure.
- [34:18]
Adam Gidwitz
Me too. A total pleasure for me and listeners.
- [34:21]
Elise Parisian
Thank you from all of us here at Dorktails Unspookable and Grim Grimmer. Grimmest. And congrats on finishing the Kooky Spooky Countdown. Have a safe and happy Halloween.
- [34:34]
Adam Gidwitz
Happy Halloween everybody. Foreign.
- [34:41]
Mindy
Hey grown ups. Mindy here from wow in the World. The number one podcast for curious kids and their grown ups. That's you. And we are so excited to bring the wows of the world to your home with our brand new wow in the World stem toys from Wondery Kids and Themes and Cosmos. Channel your inner astronomer with our wow in the World World Telescope kit. Or zoom in on the tiny wows of nature with our wow in the World microscope and biology kit. You can even tinker like real scientists with our 100 experiments that wow kit. And with every wow in the World stem toy, you unlock access to exclusive audio content from me and my buddy Guy Raz. There are so many ways to wow. So whether you're shopping for a kid who loves science or one who doesn't just yet, our wow in the World stem toys are the perfect gift for your curious kids grown ups. Visit tinkercast.comtoys to shop the WOW. Now.
- [35:42]
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