Frau Trude

Summary

Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest: Episode "Frau Trude" Summary

Release Date: March 20, 2025
Host/Author: Adam Gidwitz
Description: It's Grimm fairy tales like you've never heard before!

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Introduction

In the "Frau Trude" episode of Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest, bestselling author Adam Gidwitz delves into one of the original Brothers Grimm fairy tales, presenting it to a lively group of inquisitive children. Unlike the sanitized versions familiar to most, this retelling embraces the dark and mysterious elements that characterize the original Grimm stories. The episode is categorized as "Grimmer," indicating a heightened level of spookiness suitable for older children or those seeking a more intense narrative experience.

Setting the Stage

Adam opens the session by contrasting the classic, often sweet bedtime versions of Grimm fairy tales with their original, more unsettling counterparts. He introduces the story of Frau Trude, a witch residing in a concealed cottage within a deep forest, setting the tone for a tale filled with suspense, magic, and moral lessons.

Adam Gidwitz (00:04:03):
"You may think you know grim fairy tales, but the originals are weird, sometimes gross, and often scary."

Introducing the Characters

The story centers around a deeply curious young girl living in a decaying stone manor with her worried parents. Her insatiable curiosity about everything from flowers to magic leads her to the forbidden cottage of Frau Trude, despite her parents' stern warnings.

Child Participant (04:04:15):
"Ooh. What's a manor?"

Adam Gidwitz (04:04:17):
"A manor is a huge house."

The Journey into the Forest

Driven by her yearning to uncover the mysteries of Frau Trude's cottage, the curious girl ventures into the forest. Her journey is fraught with distractions and wonder, illustrating the theme that curiosity can lead both to discovery and danger.

Adam Gidwitz (04:10:53):
"But she just studied the cottage from afar. And then she went home."

Child Participant (04:16:39):
"What husband?"

Encounter with the Duke

The plot thickens when the girl's parents arrange her marriage to a wealthy Duke from a distant kingdom, who reveals himself to be a fearsome witch hunter. This development introduces conflict, as the Duke embodies the oppressive forces that seek to suppress curiosity and individuality.

Adam Gidwitz (04:19:48):
"He is a very wealthy duke from a faraway kingdom."

Child Participant (04:19:59):
"What do witches do?"

Adam Gidwitz (04:20:05):
"Evil deeds."

Confrontation and Revelation

As the Duke attempts to coerce the young woman into marriage, her persistent questioning and defiance lead her to flee back into the forest, inadvertently guiding the Duke to Frau Trude's cottage. This climax sets the stage for the revelation that Frau Trude possesses true magical prowess, contrasting with the Duke's misguided crusade against witches.

Child Participant (04:24:22):
"Good luck with that. I wouldn't marry you if you were the last duke in the world."

Adam Gidwitz (04:24:28):
"He started chasing her into the deep forest."

Meeting Frau Trude

Upon reaching the enigmatic cottage, the young woman confronts Frau Trude, who reveals a profound truth: both she and the young woman are witches. Unlike the Duke, Frau Trude does not embody evil but represents wisdom, curiosity, and the pursuit of knowledge.

Child Participant (04:34:28):
"Frau Trudi."

Adam Gidwitz (04:34:29):
"Very slowly, Frau Trudi turned to the young woman. She replied, 'Well, if a witch is a woman who is smart and curious and can harness the elements of nature to discover the secrets of the universe, then yes, my dear, I am a witch. And so are you.'" (35:01)

Transformation and Empowerment

Frau Trude transforms the Duke into a block of wood, symbolizing the defeat of ignorance and oppression. She then imparts her knowledge to the young woman, encouraging her to embrace her curiosity and intellect without fear.

Child Participant (04:37:48):
"I don't think I want to marry someone who kills people and thinks it's an art."

Adam Gidwitz (04:37:51):
"He doesn't kill people. He kills witches."

Child Participant (04:38:24):
"Those don't sound like evil deeds."

Adam Gidwitz (04:38:27):
"I told you that you were a witch."

Conclusion and Legacy

The young woman returns to her parents with gold from Frau Trude, alleviating their financial woes and allowing her to continue her studies. Over time, she transforms the grand manor into a center of learning, fostering curiosity and education. The tale concludes with her legacy of wisdom, contrasting with the Duke's failed and malevolent pursuits.

Child Participant (04:39:40):
"She made the first university in the world."

Adam Gidwitz (04:39:40):
"She turned the manor with a hundred rooms into a grand laboratory for asking questions."

Notable Quotes and Interactions

Throughout the episode, the children actively engage with the story, posing thoughtful questions and offering insightful commentary. These interactions enrich the narrative, highlighting the importance of curiosity and critical thinking.

• Child Participant (04:05:25):
  "And her name is curious."

• Child Participant (04:08:21):
  "I think they don't want her to go there because she will either die, disintegrate, or turn into a bunny."

• Child Participant (04:16:39):
  "What?"

• Child Participant (04:23:53):
  "I DON'T want to marry this Duke. He thinks that people who ask questions. Questions are stupid also. He's a murderer."

• Child Participant (04:24:28):
  "Good luck with that. I wouldn't marry you if you were the last duke in the world."

Themes and Insights

"Frau Trude" explores themes of curiosity, knowledge, and the resistance against authoritarianism. The young woman's journey underscores the value of questioning and learning, while the Duke's characterization serves as a cautionary tale against the suppression of intellect and individuality.

Final Reflection:
The episode beautifully encapsulates the essence of Grimm fairy tales by presenting a story that is not only entertaining but also thought-provoking. It encourages listeners, especially young ones, to embrace their curiosity and seek knowledge, advocating for a world where questions are celebrated rather than stifled.

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Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest continues to redefine classic fairy tales, offering fresh perspectives and engaging storytelling that resonate with both children and adults alike. To experience more gripping tales, visit pinna.fm and explore the enchanting world crafted by Adam Gidwitz.

Transcript

[Adam Gidwitz]

Pinna this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there, and hoping it all works out well? With the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help you find options within your budget. Try it today at progressive. Com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states hi, I'm Alexis Ohanian. You may know me as one of the co founders of Reddit, but more recently a large part of my identity is being a father to my wonderful daughters. In my podcast Business Dad, I hope to open the conversation about working parents a bit. You'll get to hear from a wide range of business dads, from Rain Wilson and Guy Raz to Todd Carmichael and Shane Battier to find out how they balance being a dad with a successful career. Business dad is available now, so be sure to listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Adam Gidwitz. I'm an author. I'm also a storyteller. I like telling all kinds of stories, but I especially like telling grim fairy tales. You may think you know grim fairy tales and you may think that they are sweet and boring, but listen, those tales you heard were the cute, happy little kid bedtime versions of the Grimm tales. The original Grimm fairy tales aren't like that at all. They're weird and sometimes gross and often scary. In other words, they're grim. And I'm about to host a virtual storytelling session and tell one of the original grim Grimm tales to a bunch of kids. Do you want to join me? Do you want to hear a grim fairy tale? I don't know if you said yes or no because I can't hear you. So let me help you decide on a scale of grim, Grimmer and Grimmest. This story is Grimmer. There's a very rude and awful dude, some serious suspense, and some mind bending magic. If I get to a part of the story and you start to feel scared or uncomfortable, this is what you could do. You could turn down the volume and count to five. Then turn the volume back up. If it still seems like a part you don't want to hear, turn it down and count to five again. You know how much weird and gross and scary you're ready for? You know what you need? Okay, I'm about to join the session. There are kids inside waiting to hear a grim fairy tale. So are you coming in? Grim Grimmer Grimace. Okay, this story is called Frau Trudi.

[Child Participant]

What?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Frau is a German word. Does anyone know what the word frau means in German?

[Child Participant]

Pig. Something German.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It is something German. You're right.

[Child Participant]

Pig.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It's not pig, it's Mrs. So Frau Trudi means Mrs. Mrs. Trudy.

[Child Participant]

Mrs. Pig.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Mrs. Trudy. And this is a story by the Brothers Grimm.

[Child Participant]

Is it called Trudy Pig?

[Adam Gidwitz]

No, it's called Mrs. Trudy. Nothing to do with a pig. No pigs.

[Child Participant]

No pigs. I like pigs.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I'm so sorry. Okay, here we go. Once upon a time, there was a girl who lived with her parents in a giant stone manor at the edge of a deep forest.

[Child Participant]

Ooh. What's a manor?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Good question. What's a manor?

[Child Participant]

A huge house.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You got it. The manor was enormous, with a hundred rooms. But it wasn't fancy like you might expect. You see, the girl's family had been rich once, many gener. But now they had fallen on hard times, and their manor had many empty rooms and more spiderwebs than servants.

[Child Participant]

Just get people to live in your 100 rooms. Like they rented. Oh, yeah, yeah. Then you get rich again. And then you say goodbye to those people, and then you get all your jewelry. Actually, you shouldn't kick them out.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But what are you kids, real estate experts? I gotta hire all of you. Help me make some investments. Anyway, it was said that there was another house in the forest. A small cottage, in fact. But this cottage was so hard to find that no one knew exactly where it was or even if it really existed at all. Now, this girl who lived in the manor was very, very curious. She was curious about everything in the world.

[Child Participant]

And her name is curious.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You're right. We don' her name was. So, yeah, I was just gonna call her the Curious Girl. The girl was curious about everything. She was curious about flowers and spiderwebs. She was curious about fires and frogs. Interesting.

[Child Participant]

And pens and cactus and sticky notes.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And pictures and lightning and rainbows.

[Child Participant]

She was curious about life, existence.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Exactly.

[Child Participant]

I'm curious about lots of stuff. Birds, animals, nature, everything.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay. Amazing.

[Child Participant]

I'm curious about people.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Oh, that's a lovely thing to be curious about.

[Child Participant]

I'm curious about you, Adam.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Oh, are you really? You don't know everything about me. At this point, I feel like there's nothing left to learn.

[Child Participant]

I am curious about Smurfs. Smurfs?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Unfortunately, the curious girl's curiosity worried her parents.

[Child Participant]

Why?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, good question.

[Child Participant]

Heard the saying of curiosity. Killed the Rat?

[Adam Gidwitz]

No, curiosity killed the cat, not the rat. And anyway, yes, they're worried that curiosity's gonna kill her. The girl was always exploring and poking her nose into strange places, wandering off to follow her curiosity.

[Child Participant]

Ooh, what's over here?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And so her parents worried that she might get lost or fall into a well. Or well, anything. Now, the curious girl was curious about a million things. But what she was most curious about was the cottage. That little cottage in the woods that was very hard to find. She would constantly say, mother, Father, can.

[Child Participant]

You tell me again about the little cottage that's very hard to find?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And they would tell her the same thing over and over. It belongs to an old woman named Frau Trudi. And then they would warn her. You must never try to find that.

[Child Participant]

Place because Frau Trudi is a witch. A witch?

[Adam Gidwitz]

A witch. She commits evil deeds in that cottage. If you ever went into it, you would never, ever come out. So please stop asking about it.

[Child Participant]

How do you know that if you've never seen it?

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's a good point. But the curious girl had so many more questions.

[Child Participant]

What is a witch?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Someone who uses magic to commit evil deeds.

[Child Participant]

What are evil deeds?

[Adam Gidwitz]

I'm not sure, but I know they're very bad.

[Child Participant]

Why would I never come out?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Will you stop asking questions? But that just made the girl more and more curious. Curious. Okay, I did want to hear other answers to those questions. So who can tell me what a witch is?

[Child Participant]

A witch is a wonderful person who has magic.

[Adam Gidwitz]

A wonderful person who has magic.

[Child Participant]

Witches can be good and they can be bad.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay, and what are evil deeds?

[Child Participant]

Something that is mean or disrespectful or. Or untruthful that you probably later regret in your life.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. Wow, that's a great definition. And why do you think that this girl would never come out of Frau Trudi's house if she went in?

[Child Participant]

Because she would love it. Because she was rich and she would never be bored and all the rumors were untrue.

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's what you think?

[Child Participant]

I think they don't want her to go there because she will either die, disintegrate, or turn into a bunny. Yes.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay. Those are very specific predictions.

[Child Participant]

Very.

[Adam Gidwitz]

One day, the curious girl was asking her parents yet again about the little cottage that was very hard to find. And her mother and father got so fed up that they shouted, enough. You are forbidden from ever asking about Frau Trudi or her cottage ever again. Or else the curious girl burst into tears. All she had done was ask questions. Was that so bad?

[Child Participant]

It's pretty much like her parents just said, stop being curious.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, exactly. The curious girl was so upset that she ran away from her parents. Out of the manor and into the deep forest.

[Child Participant]

She's gonna find the cottage.

[Adam Gidwitz]

After a while, she eventually stopped running and started to wander. She wasn't going anywhere in particular, certainly not to the little cottage that was very hard to find. Because while she was curious, it was not like she wanted to be killed by an evil witch or disintegrated or be turned into a bunny. So she just followed whatever caught her attention. Animal tracks in the earth. The call of a hawk. A little river with a series of lovely waterfalls. And she asked herself questions about each one.

[Child Participant]

I wonder what kind of animal made those tracks. Who is the hawk calling? Where does the river end?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And she followed her questions until she.

[Child Participant]

Found herself at the little cottage.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Right away, she knew that it had to be Frau Trudi's. First of all, because it was the only cottage in these woods. And second of all, because it was the weirdest little cottage she had ever seen. Its roof was thatched with fiddlehead ferns. Its walls were made of gooseberry brambles. There was purple smoke rising from the chimney, and a golden haze glowed through the windows.

[Child Participant]

Magic.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The sight of the cottage made the girl shiver. She couldn't tell if she was shivering with fear or excitement. She considered getting closer, but then she stopped.

[Child Participant]

I might die. Or get disintegrated. Or get turned into a bunny.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So she just studied the cottage from afar. And then she went home. But all that night, she tossed and turned. She was so curious, she wondered to.

[Child Participant]

Herself, what is Frau Trudi doing in that cottage? Would she really turn me into a bunny? What would it feel like to be a bunny? When you're a bunny, can you ask questions?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious girl was so curious about it all that she could not fall asleep. So the very next morning, before she'd even eaten breakfast, she snuck back out into the woods. She tried to follow the same path she had taken before. But no matter how hard she tried, she couldn't find Frau Trudi's cottage.

[Child Participant]

Where could it be? Wasn't it right here? I could have sworn it was.

[Adam Gidwitz]

She looked all day, and then eventually she gave up and went home.

[Child Participant]

I know. Why.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Why?

[Child Participant]

Like, a bunch of people tried to find it, right?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah.

[Child Participant]

But they didn't.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Right.

[Child Participant]

They didn't find it because they were trying to find it. But the girl wasn't trying to find it.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. How do you find it? Just not looking for it or not.

[Child Participant]

Either not looking for it or you need to ask yourself questions to get there.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. The next day the girl went into the woods again. But this time she decided that she wouldn't look for Frau Trudi's cottage. She would just follow anything that interested her. Skunk fur peeking out from behind some ferns, a beautiful old log with a million worms and maggots living under it, a flying squirrel jumping from branch to branch. And what do you think happened?

[Child Participant]

She found it.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And soon enough, wouldn't you know it, the girl's curiosity led her right back to Frau Trudi's cottage. She stared at the fiddlehead fern roof and the gooseberry bramble walls and the purple smoke rising from the chimney and the golden windows, and she wondered what was going on inside. Still, she didn't dare get close.

[Child Participant]

I still don't want to die or get disintegrated or turn into a bunny, I think.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Years went by, the curious girl snuck into the forest, often following her curiosity until she found Frau Trudi's cottage. And she would watch it and think about it and wonder about it from afar. But she was always too afraid to knock on the door.

[Child Participant]

Frau Trudi is a witch after all.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And the girl never told her parents where she went because they still forbade her to talk about Frau Trudi. This message is for the grown ups if you listen to this podcast you you've heard about HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. But did you know that HelloFresh also offers Green Chef the number one meal kit for clean eating. Green Chef delivers pre portioned and prepped quality whole foods with limited processed ingredients. Want to create better eating habits that last? Of course you do. Green Chef makes it easy with dietitian developed recipe options featuring fresh organic produce and quality whole foods delivered to your door each week. Stay on track with your eating goals even on your busiest days. With salads ready in five minutes or less. Ready to blend smoothies and grab and go protein packed breakfasts. Thrive all year with clean easy meals from Green chef. Go to greenchef.com grimfree and use code GRIMGRIM free to get started with free salads for two months plus 50% off your first box of food. Green Chef the number one meal kit for eating well. There are many ways to entice a potential new customer with flashy branding and calculated marketing strategies. But at the end of the day, the success of a business comes down to the ability to close the sale. And for businesses like Thrive Cosmetics, Allbirds or Skims it's what goes on behind the scenes. Making, selling, and for shoppers buying simple that makes the difference for them and for millions of businesses. That difference is made with Shopify. Businesses that want to grow, grow with Shopify. Because if your goal is growth, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And Shopify will make sure you're ready on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. And with Shoppay, they boost conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. It's no wonder Shopify is home of the number one checkout on the planet. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Allbirds uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial [e-mail] realm all lowercase go to shopify.com realm to upgrade your selling today. That's shopify.com realm Besides, her parents were busy with their own worries. They worried about money, and they never stopped worrying about what would become of their curious daughter. So when enough years had passed that the curious girl had become a curious young woman, her parents announced. We have found your husband.

[Child Participant]

What?

[Adam Gidwitz]

A husband?

[Child Participant]

No, I heard you. What husband?

[Adam Gidwitz]

He is a very wealthy duke from a faraway kingdom.

[Child Participant]

Oh, no. Yuck.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Now, you might think that the curious young woman would be upset that her parents would choose a husband for her. But really, she wasn't upset as much as curious. Curious. You're right.

[Child Participant]

Why would you be curious about that? I would be mad.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You would be mad.

[Child Participant]

They should have no other emotion except being curious.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I don't know. I mean, most people would be angry. And a lot of other stories like this girls have been angry. But in this case, she was really curious. She had all sorts of questions.

[Child Participant]

Who is this duke? What's it like in the kingdom where he lives? Is it pretty? Will I live there? Will I like it? How big is it?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Is he nice?

[Child Participant]

What does he do for fun? What will we do for fun? Does he even like fun?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman had only ever explored the manor and the grounds and the forest. And she was ready to learn new things and have new adventures and explore new horizons. Besides, she had always had a secret dream that one day she would meet someone who would teach her the secrets of the great wide world. Or better yet, someone who who'd explore them with her. Maybe the duke would be that person.

[Child Participant]

Or maybe he would be a horrible person. And you would run and ask Mrs. Trudy to turn him into a Bunny, hex him.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yes, Interesting prediction. The next day, when the Duke arrived at the manor, the curious young woman and her parents hurried outside to greet him. There they found the Duke sitting on another man's shoulders. The father welcomed the duke and then asked, why are you riding on a man? The Duke scoffed, my stupid servant forgot to tie up the horses last night and they ran away. Obviously I wasn't going to walk the rest of the way. The duke dismounted from his servant's shoulders, wiped his brow, and barked at the servant, announce me at once. Thirsty and out of breath, the servant whimpered, announcing, the Duke of the faraway Kingdom, the most fearsome witch hunter in all the lands. With a flourish, the Duke intoned, yes, it is I, the Duke of the faraway Kingdom, most fearsome witch hunter in all the lands. What do you think a witch hunter is?

[Child Participant]

Someone who hunts witches for sport, or like legend and stuff like that? I don't like witch hunting. It's rude.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Why is it? Why don't you like it?

[Child Participant]

Because in the olden days, often people, girls who were intelligent or who were like stuff like that, were considered witches.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Or who knew math were considered witches just because they were.

[Child Participant]

Different.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, different. Yep, you're so right. The Duke extended his hand to the curious young woman and said, it would be your honor to marry me.

[Child Participant]

What? Your honor?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, that's what he said.

[Child Participant]

Oh, my gosh. This guy?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Well, the curious young woman didn't quite know what to think yet. The Duke didn't seem all that nice, but he was the most fearsome witch hunter in all the lands, and she wanted to know about that. So when they sat down for dinner that night, she had a lot of questions.

[Child Participant]

What do witches do?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Evil deeds. The Duke responded.

[Child Participant]

Like what?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Like, well, they don't do all the normal things you're supposed to do, and they do all sorts of not normal things that you're not supposed to do.

[Child Participant]

Supposed to do? That is not an answer. Can you be more specific?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Well, like, if someone makes up their own rules, instead of obeying all the rules everyone else obeys, they're probably a witch. Or if someone doesn't do whatever everyone else does, they're probably a witch. Or if someone asks all sorts of weird and uncomfortable questions, they might be a witch. Or if someone knows magic, then they're definitely a witch.

[Child Participant]

And so you murder them?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yes.

[Child Participant]

Isn't murder an evil?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The Duke laughed uncomfortably. Not the way I do it. The way I do it. It is a passion, a talent, an art.

[Child Participant]

Curiously.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Dude.

[Child Participant]

This dude is sick. This dude is sick. I don't think this Duke actually hunts witches.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You think he's just full of it?

[Child Participant]

This Duke is a faker.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman was starting to wonder whether she really wanted to marry this Duke. But she still had more questions.

[Child Participant]

How do you kill the witches?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Her mother cut in, I think that's enough. But it wasn't enough for the curious young woman or the Duke, who loved talking about himself. The Duke said, to kill witches. I stabbed them with my sword made of moonstone, and then I throw them on a fire and burn them to death. The curious young woman's parents hated all these questions. Let's change the subject. Yes, please. And at last, the Duke agreed. Your parents are right. Show me what a good wife you'll be. Clear the table. Get me some dessert, then let the men talk. The Duke pushed his plate toward the curious young woman and put his feet up on the table.

[Child Participant]

What? Excuse me.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Frustrated, the young woman picked up the plates and carried them into the kitchen. When they were alone in the kitchen, the young woman turned to her mother.

[Child Participant]

I don't think I want to marry the Duke.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Her mother replied, I understand he isn't very nice, but we have completely run out of money and he is very rich. You must marry him or we would will be forced to sell the manor and sleep in the fields with the field mice.

[Child Participant]

But I don't want to marry someone who kills people and thinks it's an art.

[Adam Gidwitz]

He doesn't kill people. He kills witches.

[Child Participant]

Aren't witches people?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Just then, the kitchen door swung open. The Duke was standing there. He had been listening to their conversation. Did you just ask if witches are people? How dare you ask that question? The young woman said, what's wrong with asking questions? And the Duke replied, questions are for people who don't know. And people who don't know are stupid. So questions are for stupid people.

[Child Participant]

No, you're stupid if you don't ask questions. So he's a most stupid person. Duke? More like puke. Asking questions is how you learn. Yeah, yeah. Duke is stupid.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, you're the stupid people. Duke. The young woman's father came into the kitchen and asked, what's going on in here? And the curious young woman announced, I.

[Child Participant]

Don'T want to marry this Duke. He thinks that people who ask questions. Questions are stupid also. He's a murderer.

[Adam Gidwitz]

How dare you? Said the Duke. I could have my pick of any young woman in all the kingdoms and you dare insult me? I am marrying you as a favor to your parents. And when I marry you, I will teach you to be a lady and to stop asking questions.

[Child Participant]

Good luck with that. I wouldn't marry you if you were the last duke in the world.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The young woman shouted, and she pushed past her mother, her father, the duke and his servant, and ran out of the manor and straight into the forest. Her mother cried, don't let her go out there. Frau Trudi lives in those woods. She's a witch. The duke turned very suddenly toward the mother. Did you say that Frau Trudi lives in those woods? His smile was very wide and very thin. Well, that's what they say. But we've never found her cottage because. Because it's very hard to find. I know. I've been looking for Frau Trudi for a very, very long time. But I've never known which woods she's lived in. Now I do. So don't worry. I'll bring your daughter back after I kill the witch. Frau Trudi. And he started after the curious young woman into the deep forest.

[Child Participant]

No.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman ran through the woods. She looked behind her and saw the duke running after her, his moonstone sword reflecting the light of the clouds overhead. And she wondered, is he going to kill me? And she wondered.

[Child Participant]

I thought he wanted to marry me. How can he marry me if I'm dead?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And she wondered, what can I do.

[Child Participant]

To get away from him?

[Adam Gidwitz]

She wondered and wondered, and she wondered herself. Right to the little cottage, which was just what the duke was hoping for. She had led him straight to Frau Trudi. The curious young woman ran right up to the strange round door in the gooseberry bramble walls. And there she stopped. And she thought, what evil things does.

[Child Participant]

Frau Trudi do in our little cottage? Would she turn me into a bunny? Would I prefer being a bunny? Also, there's no doorknob on the door, so how could I even get inside?

[Adam Gidwitz]

But it seemed that the force of her questions pushed the door open. The open door led the young woman into a small room. In this room, there were two more doors. On one door, written in sparkling copper paint, were the words who knows? On the other door were painted the words I know. She stopped. Which way should she go?

[Child Participant]

Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Who knows?

[Child Participant]

Whose knows? Whose knows?

[Adam Gidwitz]

My knows? No. Who knows? No what? Forget it.

[Child Participant]

What knows?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Why do you think she should go in the who knows? Door?

[Child Participant]

She should go to who knows because. Because she's curious.

[Adam Gidwitz]

As the sound of the Duke running through the forest got closer and closer.

[Child Participant]

She thought, knowing sounds good. But I don't always know everything. And people who claim to know everything usually seem like jerks. Like that Duke.

[Adam Gidwitz]

She looked nervously over her shoulder through the open front door of Frau Trudi's cottage and saw the moonstone sword hacking at the brambles and bushes not very far away. She turned back to the two copper painted doors and thought, who knows?

[Child Participant]

Sounds like you're helpless. But it's also a question. I like questions.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Suddenly, the Duke burst into the clearing where the cottage stood. He caught sight of the curious young woman and shouted, come out of there. Frau Trudi will kill you. The young woman threw open the door marked who knows? And slammed it closed behind her. She found herself in a room filled from floor to ceiling with flowers. Thousands and thousands of identical pink flowers. There was something odd about the room, though. I mean, in addition to being filled with all those flowers, the young woman couldn't quite put her finger on what it was. There was a door at the other side of the room leading out. So she went to it and tried to open it, but it would not open. And then she jumped with fear because the the walls of the room began to shake and a woman's voice rumbled through them. In this room you will find 10,000.

[Child Participant]

Flowers made of silk and one flower that is real. If you can pick the real flower.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I will open the door for you.

[Child Participant]

That's what's weird about this room, thought.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman.

[Child Participant]

It doesn't smell like it's full of flowers, because it's not. They're fake. Except for one. Now how do I find the real flower?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman spun around and began examining the flowers. Each one looked real. Only by feeling the petals between her finger and thumb, or sniffing a flower, or looking at it very, very closely, could she tell that it was fake.

[Child Participant]

How can I possibly find a single real flower in a room of 10, 10,000? It'll take me a month. I don't think I have a month. I think that Duke will be here very soon.

[Adam Gidwitz]

She examined another flower. And another. And another. This would never do. Okay, who has an idea about what she should do in this room?

[Child Participant]

Is the door locked?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah. She can't get out the door.

[Child Participant]

Are the flowers magical?

[Adam Gidwitz]

No.

[Child Participant]

Okay, maybe she has a sensitive nose.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Uh huh. And so she could follow her nose. That's a good idea.

[Child Participant]

Is there any bees in this room?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Why do you ask that?

[Child Participant]

Because the bees would go. Probably go to pollinate the real one. Oh yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman looked at another flower and another.

[Child Participant]

There's gotta Be a better way of finding the right flower. Who's good at finding flowers?

[Adam Gidwitz]

She wondered. And suddenly she had an idea. The room had one small window. The curious young woman went to the window and opened it. She didn't try to climb out. Instead, she waited. After a few moments, a single bee flew into the room. The curious young woman smiled.

[Child Participant]

Oh, yay.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The bee buzzed around the flowers and flew directly for one quite near the window. It stayed on that blossom for a while. Then it flew over the whole room once more and out the window again. The curious young woman plucked the flower the bee had landed on, and instantly, the door on the far side of the room opened.

[Child Participant]

Thanks to the bee.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I am so impressed that you figured that out.

[Child Participant]

I love riddles, but I am terrible at them.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I'm the same. I'm like, oh, I'm so good at this. Tell me the riddle and they tell me. I'm like, I have no idea. The curious young woman walked through the door and found herself in an entirely different room. This room was almost empty. It had no windows and no doors. Even the door she'd come through had vanished. The only things in the room were a table and a mirror. The curious young woman was trapped. She waited for the voice in the wall to tell her what she was supposed to do. She waited and waited, but no voice came.

[Child Participant]

She has to figure it out on her own.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman wondered, where is that duke now?

[Child Participant]

Has he already found Frau Trudi? Did he stab her with his moonstone sword? Has he burned her alive? Is that why Frau Trudi isn't speaking to me through the walls?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman looked at the mirror and the table again. She realized she was going to have to figure this out on her own, and fast.

[Child Participant]

The mirror might be a magic mirror.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay, maybe it's a magic mirror.

[Child Participant]

Look in the mirror.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay?

[Child Participant]

Go all over the room with the mirror and just see. Just see if there's a detail that's different in the mirror than in the room.

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's a smart idea.

[Child Participant]

Go through the mirror.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. The curious young woman picked up the mirror just to see what she saw. Then she had an idea. She used that saw and cut the table in half. With the two halves, she made a hole. She took that hole, put it on the wall and crawled through and out of the room.

[Child Participant]

That makes no sense.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Totally makes no sense.

[Child Participant]

I want you to say it again slowly.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay, I'll say it again slowly. The girl picked up the mirror to see what she saw.

[Child Participant]

Okay, so she saw something. She Saw.

[Adam Gidwitz]

A saw.

[Child Participant]

But then how did she get the saw? Saw the table in half.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Right.

[Child Participant]

How did she make a hole? That does not make any sense. This is making no sense.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I'll say it again. Okay. So she picked up the mirror to see what she saw.

[Child Participant]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So now I said the word saw. Then she used the saw and cut the table in half.

[Child Participant]

What?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Now I just took the word saw and transformed it from a word into an object, which seems like it makes no sense.

[Child Participant]

No sense.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Do you understand?

[Child Participant]

No deferred toe. No questions.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, no questions. With two halves of the table, she made a whole. Like a half. Two halves make a whole. Like a whole. You know what I mean?

[Child Participant]

Nope.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Like two halves make one whole. And then she took the whole. Then it changes what kind of hole it is. Put it on the wall and she crawled through.

[Child Participant]

Oh. Oh.

[Adam Gidwitz]

What?

[Child Participant]

Why is this so weird? It's word. It's a word game. It's a word magic.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You got it. It's word magic.

[Child Participant]

I don't like this.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I don't like word magic either.

[Child Participant]

It's breaking my brain.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It's cool. But it does make your brain break. Absolutely. When the curious young woman climbed out of the hole, she found herself in a room full of strange feathers and drying plants and burning incense and colorful stones that sparkled and beakers of liquid that bubbled and a cast iron cauldron. And also a little old lady wearing a long purple velvet dress. The curious young woman didn't have to wonder. This time it was very definitely who?

[Child Participant]

Frau Trudi.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman exclaimed, so you.

[Child Participant]

Really are a witch.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Very slowly, Frau Trudi turned to the young woman. She furrowed her chin, and then she replied, well, if a witch is a.

[Child Participant]

Woman who is smart and curious and can harness the elements of nature to discover the secrets of the universe, then yes, my dear, I am a witch. She's not an evil witch. She's a different kind of witch. She's the kind of witch that does this. Which witch is she? Which witch is she?

[Adam Gidwitz]

She's the kind of witch who asks witches. Witch who asks questions. Oh, my gosh. I never thought of that. Yes. Yes, my dear, I am a witch. Frau Trudi said. And then she smiled and added, and so are you.

[Child Participant]

I'm a witch.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But before Frau Trudi could reply, another door on the other side of Frau Trudi's room burst open. The duke stepped through, breathing heavily, his moonstone sword hanging broken at his side. He cried, ha. You thought a few hundred venomous spiders would stop Me? A spider crawled down from his hair and onto his forehead. He screamed and threw the spider away from him. Or a locked iron door. He held up his broken sword. I popped it open. No props. It was only then that he seemed to notice that his sword had broken. He shrugged and pointed it at Frau Trudi. He bellowed, witch. Frau Trudi replied, which witch? Me or her? And she pointed one finger at herself and the other at the curious young woman. The duke's eyes widened. You're both witches. The curious young woman began to shake her head. And then she stopped shaking her head and shrugged. The duke stepped toward the old woman. Frau Trudi, I have been looking for you for a long, long time. Frau Trudi replied. And I have been waiting for you for a long, long time. Come, won't you light the way for us now? The duke held out the broken moonstone sword threateningly. But Frautrudi picked up a hazel branch from the table in front of her, and she touched the sword with it. And suddenly a blinding bolt of lightning seemed to travel from Frau Trudi's head, down her arm, through the wand, up the sword, and into the duke's body. When at last the lightning stopped, Frau Trudi was just as she had been before, and the duke had been turned into a block of wood.

[Child Participant]

Cool.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Frau Trudi picked up the block of wood and threw it into the fire. When it was thoroughly aglow, Frau Trudi sat down next to the fire and warmed herself. She said, ah, the dimmest fools always give the brightest light. And it was getting a little cold in here. Then Frau Trudi invited the young woman to sit down beside her. You did so well with those puzzles. What a curious young woman you are. You really will make a wonderful witch. The curious young woman said, I will? If you'd like to.

[Child Participant]

Do I have to do evil deeds?

[Adam Gidwitz]

That depends. If you think evil deeds are not obeying rules unless you agree with those rules, and asking question after question after question, even if everyone finds your questions confusing or upsetting or strange, and studying.

[Child Participant]

The secrets of nature and using them.

[Adam Gidwitz]

To shape the world, well, then, yes, to be a witch, you must commit.

[Child Participant]

Evil deeds like those, so you're literally the best person in the world.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The curious young woman said, those don't.

[Child Participant]

Sound like evil deeds.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And Frau Trudi replied, I told you that you were a witch. She handed the young woman a block of gold. Go home to your parents. Bring them this gold and tell them you'll bring them more each and Every week. Then come back here when you return, I'll teach you to harness the elements of nature and uncover the secrets of the universe. So the young woman went home and told her parents what had happened and gave them the gold. They were relieved to see her and grateful for the gold, though they were nervous about their daughter studying with a witch. Nonetheless, the curious young woman went and lived with Frau Trudi and started studying the secrets of the universe. Each weekend she visited her parents. And soon they stopped worrying so much. They even began to enjoy the questions she was always asking. And eventually they started asking some questions of their own. After studying with Frau Trudi for many years, the curious young woman, now a full grown woman, turned the manor with a hundred rooms into a grand laboratory for asking questions.

[Child Participant]

She made the first university in the world.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And every once in a while, a curious girl would come wandering through the woods and find the great manor. And other times, a nasty witch hunter would find the manor. In either case, the curious woman would invite them inside and she would teach them to light the way. How does a curious girl light the way?

[Child Participant]

Just question making.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, question making. And how does a witch hunter light the way?

[Child Participant]

You turn them into a block of.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Wood and throw them on the fire.

[Child Participant]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And the curious woman lived curiously and happily ever after. The end.

[Child Participant]

Buy our Duke Wood. The grimmest wood on Earth.

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's right.

[Child Participant]

I let my thoughts wander off with curiosity a lot. So my biggest question is, what is time? How is it passing? How do we have these memories of last second, this second? What is past? What is future? What is now?

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's an amazingly profound question. I think my brain just melted. Grim Grimmer Grimmest is a Penna original production created, written and narrated by me, Adam Gidwitz, author of A Tale Dark and Grim co written by Ali Horne Produced and edited by Ilana Milner Casting by Paula Gammon Wilson Voice direction by Ilana Milner and Paula Gammon Wilson Sound design and mixing by Beat street nyc Executive produced by Ann Richards Production support by Ashley Beecher and Thaddeus Dankwa. Characters voiced by Allison Lee Rosenfeld, Baron Bass, Billy Bob Thompson, Cat Prittano, Sanofia Mitchell, Colin Ryan, Dylan Jones, Erica Schroeder, Kaelyn Clinton, Kylie Claxton, Lori Hymes, Michael Crouch, Mike Pollack, Nicholas Korda and Rob Moreira. Special thanks to all the kids who joined us for our storytelling sessions. You guys are awesome. Aren't adventurers supposed to have a specific purpose? What are you doing on this quest?

[Child Participant]

Just meeting strangers.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yep. My purpose is to have no purpose, though I sort of find purpose as I go. My basket. It's missing. I have tried many means of defense, but none have yet proven successful. I just wish someone would succeed in getting that darn sword. I am under attack by this ruffian.

[Child Participant]

I want to be big and strong and fight evil. I have hope that if you show up at her door, she might listen. Want to help me?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yell at them with your sword in a threatening manner. Sidequesting is a fantasy podcast about avoiding the main plot. It follows Ryan, an adventurer who's willing to help just about anyone out as long as they're not being asked to deal with that scary wizard everyone keeps talking about. Subscribe today on your favorite podcast. Appreciate.