GrowLeader Podcast with Chris Hodges
Episode 85 | A Conversation with Dave Ramsey
Date: October 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a dynamic conversation between Pastor Chris Hodges and renowned financial expert Dave Ramsey. They explore the root causes of failure in churches and individuals—primarily financial stress—and discuss practical, biblical strategies for achieving lasting success and momentum. Throughout, Ramsey shares wisdom from his decades of leadership and financial teaching, inspiring leaders to embrace focused discipline, depend on God’s providence, and foster financial freedom both personally and organizationally.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Real Reason Churches Fail: Financial Stress

[00:01-02:50]

• Chris and co-host Matt reflect on data showing most church and ministry failures result from financial stress, limiting their capacity to fulfill God's calling.
• Financial challenges affect both organizations and individual congregants.

Welcoming Dave Ramsey & Highlands College's Professor in Residence Day

[02:03-04:02]

• Chris introduces Dave Ramsey as America's most trusted voice on money, celebrating his guest's impact on business, ministry, and personal finance.
• Dave praises Highlands College for its exceptional atmosphere and students, noting the genuine "spirit of God" and clear vision on campus.
  • "You just smell the spirit of God and you see a forward facing vision. It just comes out in everything in the place." — Dave Ramsey [02:29]

The Momentum Theorem: God’s Role and Ours

[04:02-09:12]

• Chris asks Dave to distill his campus chapel message on the interplay between God’s providence and personal diligence in leadership.
• Momentum Theorem Explained:
  FI/T x G = Unstoppable Momentum
  • FI: Focused Intensity
  • T: Over Time
  • G: God’s blessing (the infinite multiplier)
• Dave emphasizes leaders must couple sustained effort and focus with total reliance on God.
  • "Focused intensity over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable momentum." — Dave Ramsey [08:43]
  • "In a calculus equation, you multiply something by something infinite, the answer... is infinite." — Dave Ramsey [08:06]

The Power (and Challenge) of Focus

[09:12-13:49]

• Chris highlights the rarity and importance of relentless focus amid today’s distractions, especially for busy pastors.
• Dave cites alarming statistics on digital distraction, likening attention spans to those of a "gnat," and prescribes deliberate efforts to disconnect.
  • "The average person checks their phone 2,568 times a day. My goodness, that’s pretty codependent." — Dave Ramsey [10:18]
  • He argues that the ability to focus is now a "huge competitive advantage."
• NFL Analogy:
  • Wide receivers drop passes due to "focus killers"—Fear (of failure/injury) and Greed (premature celebration).
    • "Fear and greed causes the loss of focus." — Dave Ramsey [13:48]

Application to Pastors: Fear, Greed, and Comparison

[13:49-17:56]

• Dave applies the "fear and greed" analogy to ministry leaders:
  • Greed: Comparing oneself to peers, desiring others' success without putting in the time ("Comparison is the thief of joy").
  • Fear: Dreading criticism from congregants or making unpopular moves.
    • "If somebody’s not unhappy, you’re not doing anything." — Dave Ramsey [15:33]
• He urges pastors to set healthy boundaries (e.g., limit access to personal email) and to focus on their own calling, rather than everyone's approval.

Preaching on Money Without Fear or Shame

[17:56-23:33]

• Chris shifts to the challenge many pastors face: fear and discomfort in talking about finances.
• Dave identifies two main sources of fear:
  • Imposter Syndrome: Leaders feel unfit to teach on money due to personal imperfection.
  • Fear of Stereotypes: Leaders dread being labeled as greedy or a "prosperity preacher."
    • "Preach the Word of God unashamedly... and it’s not hard." — Dave Ramsey [18:58]
• Dave encourages preaching the clear biblical teachings on stewardship, planning, debt, and generosity.
  • "If you read Proverbs over and over again, you got a master’s degree in finance." — Dave Ramsey [21:36]

Practical Teaching Points on Stewardship

[23:33-29:01]

• Core Biblical Concepts for Congregations:
  • Planning and budgeting ("Don't build a tower without first counting the cost" – referencing Jesus)
  • Avoiding debt ("The borrower is slave to the lender")
  • Saving and building wealth as stewardship: "It’s not mine—it’s all God’s."
• Chris and Dave discuss the impact of tools like Financial Peace University and shifting pastoral strategy from urging generosity to empowering financial freedom.
  • "I came to the realization that people weren’t stingy, they were strapped." — Chris Hodges [24:13]
• Dave notes that when people gain financial clarity and margin, giving increases naturally. He cites data showing churches whose members follow biblical financial principles can see giving increase by 13-20% per year.

Organizational Leadership & Systems

[29:01-32:29]

• Dave observes that many pastors avoid financial and organizational details, favoring relationships.
• He insists that spiritual leaders must still steward organizational finances wisely, develop plans, stick to budgets, and implement robust processes.
  • "If you were managing money for a company like you do now, would you fire you? The answer is usually yes." — Dave Ramsey [31:11]
• Disorganization and impulsivity steal both peace and resources; systems enable growth.

Recommended Resources

[32:49-33:48]

• Church/Business Leadership: EntreLeadership, Building a Business You Love
• Personal/Family Finance: Financial Peace University, EveryDollar app, Total Money Makeover
  • "Financial Peace University, utilizing the new EveryDollar app... you don’t have to do envelopes anymore." — Dave Ramsey [33:27]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You just smell the spirit of God and you see a forward facing vision." — Dave Ramsey [02:29]
• "Focused intensity over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable momentum." — Dave Ramsey [08:43]
• "The average person checks their phone 2,568 times a day. My goodness, that’s pretty codependent." — Dave Ramsey [10:18]
• "Comparison is the thief of joy." — Dave Ramsey [14:13]
• "Preach the Word of God unashamedly... and it’s not hard." — Dave Ramsey [18:58]
• "People weren’t stingy, they were strapped." — Chris Hodges [24:13]
• "If you were managing money for a company like you do now, would you fire you? The answer is usually yes." — Dave Ramsey [31:11]

Key Timestamps

• [00:01] — Introduction; financial stress as primary cause of ministry failure
• [02:03] — Dave Ramsey welcomed; campus observations
• [05:30] — The "Momentum Theorem" explained
• [09:12] — Importance of focus, cultural distractions, NFL analogy
• [13:49] — Application of "fear and greed" to pastoral leadership
• [17:56] — Why pastors struggle to preach on money; overcoming shame/fear
• [21:36] — Practical scriptures and principles for financial teaching
• [24:13] — "People weren't stingy, they were strapped"
• [29:01] — Organizational systems and financial leadership
• [32:49] — Recommended Ramsey resources for pastors, leaders, and congregants

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is practical, authentic, and warm, blending humor, vulnerability, and straight talk. Dave Ramsey and Chris Hodges equip leaders to embrace both spiritual dependence and disciplined stewardship, encouraging them to focus, avoid comparison, and create environments of financial freedom in their home, church, and ministry. Listeners walk away with proven biblical wisdom and concrete resources to foster personal and organizational momentum with lasting impact.