← GrowLeader Podcast with Chris Hodges
GrowLeader Podcast with Chris Hodges
87 | David Green & Bill High - The Legacy Life: Building What Outlives You - Chris Hodges
00:34:46
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- [00:01]
A
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Grow Leader podcast where we grow leaders that grow churches by helping them reach their full potential. My name's Matt. So glad to have you with us today. Today we're having a powerful conversation about one of the most important topics for any leader, and that's how to live and lead with legacy in mind. Our guests today are two men who embody that message in incredible ways. David Green, the founder and CEO of Hobby Lobby, has built one of the largest family owned businesses in America for through hard work and a ton of vision, as well as faith, generosity and a deep commitment to honoring God in everything he does. And joining him is his co author and close friend, Bill High, a nationally recognized expert on legacy generosity and multi generational leadership. And together, David and Bill have written a brand new book called the Legacy Embracing God's Design for Generational Impact. This conversation isn't just about business or success. It's about what really lasts. And we're going to talk about how faith shapes leadership, how to build strong families and organizations that stand the test of time, and what it means to think in terms of generations instead of leading just in years. It's an honor to have both of these incredible leaders with us today. So whether you're leading a business, leading a church, or leading a family, get ready for wisdom that will challenge and inspire you to build something that outlives you. Let's get started with Pastor Chris, David Green and Bill Hyde.
- [01:33]
B
Well, I'm so delighted today to have two very, very close friends of mine and our college here on the Grow Leader podcast. And you're going to get so much out of this. Whether you're a business leader or a pastor or just maybe a dad or a mom who wants to leave a legacy. You're going to love the discussion today with my dear friends, David Green and Bill High. Guys, welcome to the Grow Leader podcast. Thank you.
- [01:56]
C
Glad to be here.
- [01:56]
D
Appreciate it.
- [01:57]
B
I'm so delighted. And David, every time I see you, it just, I'm just so grateful, my friend. I'm so grateful for not only, you know, your, you and the families and the business, Hobby Lobby's investment in Highlands College, but you've become a dear friend of mine and someone that I trust and love and respect. And I, I want to go on record in front of this great audience and just say thank you, thank you, thank you for your belief in what we're doing here at the school. And I wouldn't even mind starting right there and letting you just share your own reflections of what you've seen here at the college and why you guys have invested.
- [02:33]
D
Sure, I would love to. And I feel like I'm the one that's blessed by knowing you and what God is doing. Because there's a lot of different places you can invest your money and that's what we want to do. And we want to do it well. You know, I heard that there's $1.8 million, 513Cs so that means there's a lot of places to put your money. But we have really been excited being part of what you're doing there simply because God is blessing it. We like to just see where God is going and we want to go where he's going. So we just want to be a part of that. We don't see ourselves as someone that can come along and things are struggling unless you get new leadership. We just don't think that's where we want to be. But we really enjoy what we've seen there at the school and at the chur. You're being a pastor now, leading the church. We're just excited about being part of what God is doing with you and what you're doing at the, at the college. And we, we've been there a time or two and we just love to see the students and what's happening to them and what you're putting in their heart. What God is putting in their heart.
- [03:33]
B
Right.
- [03:33]
D
And the ministry that we know that they're going to be performing once they leave the college.
- [03:38]
B
Well, thank you again. I mean, I could look right outside the podcast window here and see this giant crane that's putting up a seven story dorm right now. And much of that is because of you and Hobby Lobby's and the family's generosity. Would you give the audience just a sneak peek into. I mean, just very small. Cause I wanna get into the book content, but a small peek into that philosophy why you guys do it. I forgot what the number actually is of the amount of proceeds or profits from the Hobby Lobby and how you feel like you're supposed to steward that. You and the family are stewarding that to causes that, you know, that train leaders and get people into heaven and just, just kind of give them a little snapshot of, of. Of the what and the why there.
- [04:20]
D
Well, probably for the last 25 years we've given a half of our earnings. So we give 50% now. That's what we feel like God would have us to do. And so we don't see Hobby Lobby as ours. Not because we say so, because God says so. So we're not people that just pay tithes and hey, we're through. But God says he owns everything. So I think we start there. God owns everything. And if he owns it, then we're stewards. So we see ourselves as stewards of what God owns. So we don't see ourselves as owning anything simply because not what we say so because God's word says so. And that has really blessed us. And I know God has blessed us because we see what he's given us not to be ours. So we've done our best to be good stewards of what God has blessed us with. And certainly God has blessed our company and we just thank him for that.
- [05:09]
B
Well, all of us on the other side of the Hobby Lobby organization want to thank you for the great work. You're a God anointed merchant and God's using you just like he's using pastors and leaders. And we want to thank you even for the values of, you know, being closed on Sunday and, you know, you guys don't sell Halloween. I mean, just you're letting the Christian values come through the company. And for those of us that are pastors and leaders, we appreciate seeing a God honoring company. Let me ask you a question. What are some of the filters? So when you guys are deciding, because I think this might be good for some of the pastors to hear when you have a filter and maybe even some of the dads, moms, leaders, business leaders that are listening to this podcast, when you guys give, you already said there's way too many nonprofits to give to. Then how do you decide? What are the filters that you look for in order to invest in something like that? I think it might help some people.
- [06:12]
D
You know, we've identified six things. That includes everything the Bible includes. We want to make sure whatever God is saying that we need to do, we need to do it. But in every case, every one of those statements that we have have two things involved in God's word and man Sow. So sometimes people see God's Word and God's word says to help the hungry, and they help the hungry, and that's the end of it. We have God's word and man. So. So we don't want to just help someone during their temporal life, during their vapor life, but we want to help them during their eternal life. So our filter is we want to make sure that we're doing two things. It has to be God's word and it has to also be eternal life. So we don't mind giving people clean water overseas. We don't mind feeding people. But we also. That is not our purpose. Our purpose is not for the temporal life. Yes, we should do it. Yes, it's biblical. But we care about people's eternal life, where they're going to spend eternity. Because sometimes we're really concerned about people's temporal life or their vapor life. But if I really love you, I care where you're going to spend and whether you're going to be comfortable in your eternal life. And so that's kind of what drives us. So we try to do a few things and not a lot of things, because there's a lot of things. But hopefully we're driven by just prayer and asking God, where would you like us to go? And we love what you're doing and what God is blessing you. We see he's blessing your church, your college, and we just are honored to be part of what you're doing.
- [07:40]
B
Well, thank you, my friend. It means a lot. You know, when you say that, it reminds me of 1 Corinthians 3, where it says that, you know, at the end of time, we're going to stand before God's judgment seat, and all of our life's work is going to go through a fire or a testing. And then it says, that which survives will receive a reward. And of course, we know that means that which shows up in heaven, that which is eternal. And I believe the exact same thing. I think we have to be benevolent. But, you know, Jesus said, give a cup of cold water in my name. So we use our social justices, so to speak, to offer that spiritual justice. Cause that's the greatest gift, to your point. And I believe it wholeheartedly that we need to be very, very careful. Even churches, I mean, they need to be very careful that of solving social causes but not offering Jesus with it, because it's all about eternal life. So I'm with you 100%. And thank you so much for, you know, kind of making that clear. Well, I want to jump into the book. You guys have written several books together, and Bill High is with us as well, who has been a co author with David on a number of books. And by the way, I highly recommend all of them. They're so spectacular. And what they do, pastors and leaders, they're going to. They're gonna be great filters, principles, values that are all biblically driven, that are gonna inspire generosity, bring the clarity that David was just talking about about, how do you give? Where do you give? And then more importantly, in this book about leading your family to make a difference for eternity. So this is how to live a legacy life. Here's the book right here. I'm very excited about it. I wanna encourage you guys to get this. And this is something that we have given to, you know, the people, the generous people of our church. We have this legacy team, people who have self identified as having the gift of giving, who want to give over and above their regular giving to accelerate the vision of our house. And we've given these books, in fact, there's a legacy life, devotion and Bill, why don't you take a minute and say hi to everybody but also kind of talk about your role with David and then just jump us into some of the content of the book.
- [09:47]
C
Yeah, happy to, Chris. Yeah. David and I have been working together now for about 25 years. Over those years we have hosted leadership events. You've been to one and we've been doing these events for years and years now. People come in and they hear the Hobby Lobby story and it's just a great way for people to learn these ideas of, you're not an owner, you're a steward. And what does generosity look like? Not just of your money, but of your time and your talent. All the kinds of things that we steward in our lives. And so over the years as people have come in and they've been part of that, it's been an amazing story. We've seen more than $3 billion redistributed to the kingdom when people grab ahold of that idea of God's ownership. This book, the Legacy Life, really was written for the church and the church as a whole. And it came out of the last book where we wrote a chapter, leadership not by the book. And the idea was, how do you. For 150 years, for most people, they think about short term. They think about the idea, I'm going to save 30 years, I'm going to retire and I'm going to sit on the beach. And what we are trying to do is we're trying to reset the theology of family is how I describe it. And we're trying to encourage people to think about families meant to be a team and not just raising a bunch of individuals. That idea of the team is the same concept of the church. It is that we are all parts of the body and we need one another. The family is the microcosm of the church. So that is the reframing that we are trying to do. Because you understand this, Chris, if every pastor listening to this podcast could See healthy families inside their church. We are being split apart at the seam because of some of this thinking around the hyper, individualistic nature of our country. So we've got to come back and say, no, we're meant to be a team, and we're meant to work together.
- [11:46]
B
So when I hear you guys in events, I was just recently at an event with you guys where you sat in two chairs like you're sitting in right now, and you kind of lead David through some discussion, and y' all banter back and forth a little bit, and it gets a bit humorous at times, too. Do some of that right now, like, as if this was your podcast. Kick us off into the content like you do at those events. Cause I think it's kind of hilarious, too, as you're introducing David to an audience and you're pulling out the content, like, about. You know, you guys begin with the mindset of legacy. So just kind of kind of do that for us, because I think it's so entertaining and it's so informative in that kind of a way.
- [12:25]
C
Well, you appreciate it, Chris. I mean, they always tell us that we should start with some humor, but the problem is, is that there's nothing funny about retailers, so David's got to.
- [12:35]
D
Take it from there. No, no, no, no. It's always good if you have someone that's interviewing to be the straight guy, and especially if they're an attorney, because there's books after books after books about attorneys. And by the way, Bill has the perfect name for attorney, for an attorney. His name is Bill High, and he does that, and all of them do that. And then they also make things as hard as they can, because that way, you don't. You don't even know what they're saying. They could do it simply. But then the other thing, the worst day in the life of an attorney, the worst day is to settle a case. So they don't settle a case because they have to stop invoicing you. So the invoices continue to come and to come and to come. But that's good to have a straight guy. So he takes it. And every now and then, I ask him if he's okay because I give him such hard job. He says it's okay. So, okay, well, we'll continue to pick on the attorneys, but it's really not that hard to pick on an attorney.
- [13:31]
B
That the truth. That's Bill High. The Bills are always high. Yes, they are. So, yeah. All right, Bill. Hi. Kick us off on the mindset of legacy. Yeah, David.
- [13:40]
C
I mean, you talk about this idea of legacy, and it's the idea of purpose. And you struggled with some of that idea because you came from a pastor's family. And the whole thing was you should be in ministry. So give the audience some of that perspective.
- [13:56]
D
You know, there was a time, I won't go into detail about it, where I knew that. I knew that I knew that God had me as a retailer and it was okay to be a retailer. Not just a retailer, but one that God is. Is blessing. I say it's an anointment, I think anointed. I am an anointed retailer because that is my calling. Every one of us have a calling. Every single one of us has a purpose. If we don't have a purpose, why are we here? Just to gather more stuff and more stuff. And so I know that God has given me the position to be a retailer. He blesses me in it. He also. I say I'm anointed to do what I do, especially when every day I try to do what the Bible says. And that's to pray without ceasing. That's one of the things I try to do, and that is just to pray without ceasing. And when you're praying, by the way, you need to realize he's right there. He's always right there. He's not some far away. And then the third thing I try to add to that, pray without ceasing. God is right there, is ask. You have not, because you ask not. And it's important to what we ask for. Are we asking for things that are pleasing to God?
- [15:04]
C
For.
- [15:04]
D
For me, it's a lot of things have to do with the health of my family and just say, God, make us bigger and better so we can tell more people about Jesus. So that's what we want to do. The first two ministries we got involved with 25 years ago was One Hope and Every Home for Christ. One Hope is telling children about Jesus. And we've told 1.5 billion, not million, but billion children about Jesus. And the same thing with every home. And that's what we have done. And we found things like your college and your church and things that God is blessing. And if, by the way, if God's not blessing it unless you got new leadership, you need to just ride off in the sunset. Because I don't care how much money you have, God, if he's not blessing it, you need not to even look at it. Every now and then, he gives us something that he's not blessing, that we've got to help with those that are operating it. But. But that's one of the mindsets we have. We just want to see where God is blessing, and we're just thankful to be part of what God is doing. And that's what we're doing with you and your college. We love it.
- [16:09]
B
Well, thank you. Why don't more people have that mindset? Like what? Bill. Bill or David? Why. Why are. Why is there. Why is there an ownership even in the church? And they know the scriptures? I mean, why do. Why don't people feel like they have to steward more of what they have? Because it all belongs to God. And how can. How can pastors preach or teach differently? And I'm sure offering this book as a resource would help but help us bridge the gap of why it's not happening. Why aren't there more David Greens in this world?
- [16:38]
D
You know why I'm going to tell you, but you may not want. You may want to cut this out. It's because of the pastors. Okay?
- [16:45]
B
No, I want you to say that.
- [16:46]
D
Okay? It's kind of because of the pastors. They teach tithing, and that's not what belongs to God. It all belongs to God. And I think a pastor has a hard time saying to a guy that makes a lot of money and has a lot of wealth that's not yours, you know, okay, maybe there's the right way to say that, but it's not theirs. It all belongs to God. God says in Psalms 24 and one that everything belongs to Him. So we're all stewards. We're not owners. We own nothing. And I'm not real sure the pastors are willing to say that because it may not sound good. Now, they've got to say it in the right way. I don't know the right way. But the right way for me is I own nothing because God says he owns everything. And so if he does, then I'm nothing. I am a steward. And by the way, a steward is about a thousand times better than being an owner. An owner can be very, very difficult because you own it. What are you going to give to your kids? And if you give something to someone they haven't earned, you got a good chance that you have a problem. I don't want a problem. So my kids get nothing more than they earn. And. But the profits, Hobby Lobby, Every bit of it goes to. To. To him and not to our family. They get a salary for which they earn. And what is it you want? You don't earn. I Never had to ask my kids that because we started out by saying, we've got a tree here. The business is a tree. There's some fruit, and you get the fruit of which you earn. You don't earn it. You shouldn't get it. But that's just where we think God has taken our family.
- [18:23]
B
Well, I'd love that. David, you work with a lot of families. I mean, and so you've. You've had to make this case like a pastor should. How do you get people and families and dads and moms to see it that way?
- [18:35]
D
I think they have to start. You can't start anywhere without this is God's word. And that's why we were involved with the museum. You have to start with the Word. And then I think where you can start from there is in that you don't own it and you own nothing. You own your time. We all have something different to give. We have finances, but our time's important, our talent, our gifts that God has given us. But somehow or another, we have to let people know they own nothing, that God owns everything. And what are you going to do with what God has given you? And so that's what we want to do. And we're not perfect at it by any means, but we at least know that we own nothing. So I think once you know this is God's word, and if you don't start there, you have no starting spot. There's no place to start. That's good, because there's a million other ways to go, but this is God's word. And God says, by the way, that you own nothing. Now, I think that's a couple starting spots. If you don't start there, I don't know how you can end up good. You're just not going to end up where you need to be.
- [19:36]
B
Jump in there, Chris.
- [19:37]
C
Let me. Yeah, let me jump in here. Because David's hitting the nail on the head. But the most transformative day in a person's life is when they give up ownership. And you don't have to be a hobby lobby. You don't have to be a business owner. This applies to every person in that church, including the pastor. But when we release and give up ownership and say, I'm just a steward, it changes our mindset to an eternal mindset. And that's one of the things that we really try to redefine. This term of legacy in the book, in the world's eyes, it's legacy is what you leave behind. That's too easy Because I'm gone and I'm left. I don't know if you just saw Warren Buffet talked about the fact that he's not going to be able to fulfill the Giving Pledge. Too difficult. So he's given 500 million bucks each to each of his kids to give away over the next 20 years. That's not the idea. The idea is that legacy. This is how we try to redefine it. It's what are you setting in motion? What are you putting in motion for that day in heaven? You quoted that first Corinthians verse, but 2 Corinthians 5, 10 says, we will all stand before Jesus and be held accountable in the body for our deeds in the body, whether good or bad. That's the day that we're pointing to. We're pointing to that day in heaven. And when we recognize that we're stewarding the relationships, our time, our talent, our treasure, our truth for that day in heaven, it means that we should have a generational mindset. We should be thinking about the generations to come. Not just me, my kids, but it's all those future generations. And, David, that's really what you've done. And I think this is maybe a good place for you to talk about that. Because when you and Barbara got married, you had three goals, but then you changed it over time.
- [21:22]
D
Yeah, sometimes we talk, when we're talking together about my three goads.
- [21:27]
B
Go.
- [21:28]
D
When Barbara and I got married, our three go's. And by the way, the first one should have been that we're going to serve God, but we didn't do that. So I guess we assumed we were going to serve the Lord. So that should be your goal, to serve the Lord and follow him. But I guess our goal was we're going to have a marriage that lasts forever. And by the way, we've been married in a couple months, 65 years.
- [21:49]
B
Let's go. That's so awesome.
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D
We've been pretty good, and I think we could make it another few years.
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B
I think you got it in you.
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D
Yeah, we're getting it down. And then the other was that my kids serve the Lord. You know, legacy. To me, the beginning of it is, is your family serving the Lord. You know, so I want to tell the world about Jesus, but I need to tell my kids about it. And they need to love the Lord, and they do.
- [22:11]
C
And.
- [22:11]
D
And I have children. And by the way, I have great grandchildren. And. And I've got. There's 51 of us, by the way. We started out with three, and there's 51. There's about eight of them that's adopted. But then the third thing was, whatever God. Whatever God is for me to do, I want to do the very best. The bible says, whatever your hands finds to do, do it with your best. If you're at McDonald's, do the very best. You may never find out what God has for you in your life if you don't do what he says. He says, be the very best, whatever your hands find. So I wanted to do that and that. That's when I got into the tgny business. And. And now, of course, Hobby Lobby. I want to be the very best because God has asked me to do it. But I've had to add things to that since then because I wanted my kids. Now it's. I want my grandkids and my great grandkids. And by the way, I want to tell everybody that I can about this good news that someone loved them enough that they died for them and loves them enough that he did that. And. And I want to tell everybody about that. So that's what we want to be part of. And we just thank God that he allows us to be part of that.
- [23:15]
B
So talk to us a little bit about getting legacy into our families then. Okay, so is there a tool? Is there a meeting? Is there a. Like. Let's just say there's a pastor or a business leader or somebody that's here and going, like, man, I want that. What's their next step? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, go ahead, please. How do they. Okay, I heard you. What do I do next?
- [23:37]
D
Okay, I think first, it's always good. And by the way, we're an imperfect family. But I think it's. First, I came from a pastor's home, and I watched a mother that when she's dying, she says, do you see them? Do you see them? And she was seeing angels. So not everybody came from that home. But I think for us that are Christians, I think we shouldn't say what we do, but we ought to do what we do. And I knew my mother and dad were for real, because not everybody that's a Christian live what they do. But Bill has helped our family to come together and say we. You should have a mission vion and values. A mission, a vision and values. And we put together a document, and once a year, we come together. I don't want us to be about Hobby Lobby. I want us to be about following the Lord and seeing what he has for us. But all of us are not Going to be Hobby Lobby employees. But we want them to be someone that also has a vision to do something for the Lord. And, and that that's the key. And, and having a document that we have that this is our mission, this is our vision, and this is our values. And the values, of course, of Christ, family and others. And so we've put that together and once a year we celebrate by bringing it together and said, this is who we want to be. And right now there's, as I said, there's over 50 of us and growing. We have about eight that have been adopted. So we love what our kids are doing in terms of adopting children as well.
- [25:07]
C
Part two of the book, Chris, is really about what are the legacy practices again, that every family should have? Not just Hobby Lobby, not whether you just own a business, but every family should have it. And it's really based on Deuteronomy 6, that idea that talk about these things. Well, what are these things? These things really are about the vision that God has for his people. Abraham, your descendants are going to number the stars in the heavens. That was the vision that God gave Abraham. Land, people, and blessing. Well, by the time Deuteronomy 6 comes around, there's a million Israelites and God says, all right, it's time to write these things down and then post it on. On the door frames of your host, of your house. Publish it so everybody can see this is the direction that we're going. That's what David talks about. Vision, mission, values. As a family, every family can do this. So again, if you imagine all the people within your church and the pastors listening to this, if every family simply just defined their values, love God, love people, serve the world kind of idea or some takeoff of that, there would be clarity inside of those families. We would be working together. That simple thing starts to unify family. David mentioned it, but they have this annual family celebration. There are seven celebrations in the Bible, and it's that time where you come back together and remind yourself, what has God done for us? But where does he want to continue to have us go? Those are a couple simple little tools that any family can undertake.
- [26:42]
B
One of my favorite parts of the book were about storytelling. You emphasized the importance of storytelling and especially the older generations sharing the stories, which is really important to me right now because, you know, I'm a granddad. I have my 10 grandkids, two on the way. And, you know, I'm 62. So I'm kind of stepping into these. I feel like the legacy years and I'M realizing that one of my. I actually wrote it down in my notes, guys, when you were talking that were at the event I was at with you in Washington, D.C. and I wrote it down that as a grandparent, I'm supposed to be the chief storyteller that I need to come up with the family stories and make sure we're having moments where we gather together as a family and said, let me tell you something that you need to know. Talk to me more about that because it really impacted me at the conference I was at recently.
- [27:33]
D
Why don't you take that, Bill?
- [27:35]
C
Well, you know, even in the conference that we do with David, that's what we do. We have David tell stories. The funny part of that, of course, is that his kids or his grandkids, great grandkids, now sit in on these events that we do. Well, sometimes they're new stories that they've never heard. But it's that idea of we say to families, what are the 10 stories that your children need to know?
- [28:00]
B
Oh, wow, that's good.
- [28:01]
C
Usually those stories are, when did you come to know Christ? When did you meet your spouse? What was it like when your first child was born? The moment of salvation? Where was your moment of triumph? Where is your moment of loss? Usually Those are the 10 stories that your kids need to know. And that's been the power of what David has done with his family over the years. All these stories.
- [28:23]
D
1985, I popped one new to him the other day that he'd never heard. And I was talking about when I was in band in junior high, that you get chairs. In other words, if your last chair your you're not too good.
- [28:38]
B
You're the worst player.
- [28:39]
D
You're the worst. And so I. I had an aunt that sent me a clarinet. And so I was last chair clarinet player, you know. But I was a kid, by the way, I was a preacher's kid. And you know, there's this food chain. And I was at the bottom of the food chain in high school. I mean, at the very bottom, I was poor. And there was one guy that was just one above me. And I know he was above me because he had a bike and I. He didn't. And so on the way home, every day I'm walking and he's in there taunting me. Has absolutely no reason to taunt me. I didn't do anything. But he did it only because he knew he was one ahead of me on the food chain. And so I'll never forget it that I just took him off of that bike. And I just beat him up. That really messed me up as a preacher's son. So I started working up the chain, you know, and I was beating these kids up. I was just moving up. But the guy that was at the very top was a trumpet player, and he was first chair trumpet player. And he had come to work and he would come to school and he had creases in his pants, and then he had this big ring. And it really, really made me mad because I knew he was at the top of the food chain. So I said, I'm going to whip him and I'll be at the top of the food chain. So out behind the drugstore in Altus, Oklahoma, he knocked me out with that big ring. All I know is I woke up and I was out. And so I think I went back to the food chain. So sometimes as preacher son, you just don't get it. And I didn't. But you learn lessons. But by the way, in high school and in junior high, the, the tuba is owned by the school. So I got to play the tuba and there was three of us, and I became first year tuba player. So the point is, if you got a lot of hot air, you can be at the very best as a tuba player. And I did go to the. I did go to the first chair. So that was one of my high school times. So I think it's okay to tell your kids that you just weren't perfect and they know it anyway, but that sometimes you do things that just not quite right.
- [30:42]
B
Yeah.
- [30:42]
C
That story's in chapter two of the book, Chris, and that's a classic example of short term thinking and your pre sanctified life on David.
- [30:51]
D
Yeah.
- [30:52]
B
So, Bill, so what? We're starting to bump against the time, but pull the best story out of David right now. Like, what's the one we all should hear right now? I want him to tell us another story.
- [31:04]
C
You know, probably the funniest story, David, over time, because we've got so many pastors here that are watching this podcast, is even though you've been married for 65 years, you and Barbara have had some serious theological issues.
- [31:22]
D
Yeah, sometimes I tell people that I married a Baptist and it's really created a lot of problems between us because I have tried for 65 years to get her saved again and she refuses. And so that is a problem. But I'm Pentecostal and I get saved every Sunday night, every Wednesday night, every Sunday morning. And my wife says that's not enough. So anyway, that we're still working on it. But by the way, we talk about this at breakfast fairly often and we both love Jesus, so I think that makes it work.
- [31:57]
B
And that's what you pass on to your kids. It's just that working through the tensions, but also having this long term commitment and love for the Lord. So as different as you can be, maybe theologically, you're so unified in so many ways. Isn't that right?
- [32:11]
D
Yeah. I want you to straighten us out one of these days. Okay, I think you could do that. Well, we could use some help on that issue.
- [32:19]
C
But anyway, Chris, let me jump in here one moment because I do want to come back full circle on this and this idea of the legacy life and setting something in motion. And just really to tell about David, but his mom and dad were these great examples of a life of faithfulness. They never pastored a church over 100 people and they had no idea what they were setting in motion. That's that idea of legacy. Because here they gave rise to a family that followed Christ, but ultimately a son who would found Hobby Lobby who's impacted so many things. And now his children are part of the Illuminations Project, the Museum of the Bible. And now his grandkids are part of adoption, for instance. So it's this man we're setting in motion something really powerful. And we see this in the life of a family. But we can't just focus on David. We've got to go back to his parents and what they modeled for him. And that's the encouragement to people listening to this podcast. Be faithful right where you're at.
- [33:21]
B
That's so good. The book is called the Legacy. Leading your family to make a difference for eternity. We'd love for every one of you guys to go grab a copy of this, get it to your, the people in your church. I bet you could teach some message series out of the content of this book. Also I would encourage you guys, pastors that are listening, if you're not already involved in the Illuminations Project. This is something that I committed to Mart Green and many others that I would promote that everywhere I go, that we are on pace somewhere around 2035 or so to get the Bible in every single language all across the world and would love. In fact, let me go so far to say that I can't think of a better investment of your missions dollars than investing in God's word and getting it so we eliminate Bible poverty that has been happening since Christ. But we are going to be in Jesus name the first generation to get that project done. Once again, David, I want to thank you so much for being not only a generous investor in the vision of Highlands College, but being a friend. I have grown to love you and the family and sweet miss Barbara and same thing to you, Bill. You guys have been just tremendous friends. You're like the real deal. And I hope everybody sees that and learns that in this incredible book. Get all the books that they've written together. I know it'll bless your life. And we'll see you guys next time on the Grow Leader podcast.
- [34:39]
D
Thank you. Appreciate it.