← Growth by Shawn
Growth by Shawn
The Busiest Man Alive Shares How he Manages 7 Podcasts and a Full Time Job with Dave Campbell
Loading summary
Transcript141 lines
- [00:01]
Dave Campbell
If I called him up on the phone and said, hey, Adam, my name's Dave, I would love to have coffee with you, he'd be like, go away, kid. You bother me. Like, why are you calling me? But when he's reaching out to me through his agency to come on my show.
- [00:35]
Sean Rivers
Welcome to the Growth by Sean podcast. Here you'll find conversation on the expansion of all aspects of the game of life with a deep focus on our physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual experience. Join your host, Shawn Rivers, as he interviews entrepreneurs and coaches to showcase the many identity shifts individuals make throughout their lives. You're here for a reason, and Sean.
- [01:03]
Dave Campbell
Aims to share tools and stories that.
- [01:05]
Sean Rivers
Help us all move forward and take.
- [01:07]
Dave Campbell
Ownership of our goals.
- [01:13]
Sean Rivers
Guys, welcome back to another episode of the Growth by Sean podcast. I get the honor to sit here with Dave Campbell today. I was recently on Dave's podcast and he also sent me a small little clip on my sneak pipe, which I want to share with you guys real briefly before we start the show.
- [01:32]
Dave Campbell
Hey, Sean, this is Dave from the how to Podcast series. Thank you for being on my show today as a guest co host. Great conversation. I would love to have you back again. Everyone, use Sean's Speak Pipe link. I'm doing it right now, super easy. And you can leave a message for Sean and his podcast. I know he'd love to hear from you. We all do as podcasters, so reach out, use his link. Sean will share it with you, and you can have your voice right here on Sean's podcast. And if you want to hear Sean on my show, go over to HowToPodcast CA and all the information will be there and hear the amazing Sean on my podcast. Sean, again, thank you so much. And I did send you some coffee, so check out your email from your Buy me a coffee link. I set you a couple, so there you go. Thanks again, Sean, for being part of my show. Take care. Keep podcasting. I'm listening up here in Canada. See ya.
- [02:33]
Sean Rivers
All right, guys, welcome back to the Growth by Sean podcast. I'm sitting here with Dave Campbell today, and this is going to be an interesting podcast because Dave or David Rather has, I don't know, seven, eight shows that you do. I've lost count at this point. So I. Yeah, Dave, I'll let you just take the floor. I don't know which direction you want to give your brief synopsis of who you are, whether it's podcast wise, personal wise, business wise, whatever direction you want to take this in. Let's just hear a little bit about who we're talking to today.
- [03:06]
Dave Campbell
So you get two podcasters in a room together. What could go wrong, right? This is going to be fun. I'm so glad to be here, Sean. Thank you for letting me come on your show. My name is Dave. I live in Ontario, Canada, near a big thing called Niagara Falls. It's a hill, if you haven't heard. It's a big hill, lots of water, and people come from all over the world to see it. It's like 10 minutes from my house, and it's like sometimes I forget it's even there, but it's really a beautiful place to live. I have eight different podcasts that I host, and I've been podcasting for a few years now, and I just love all things podcasting. You get to meet great people, interact with people you would never have a chance to meet in other otherwise. And for me, it's just a. It's a joy to not only be a podcaster, but also help people start a podcast and encourage them in their journey as well. So as I listen to your show, Sean, you're doing amazing. Some pretty interesting guests on your podcast on a variety of topics, which I love because it's. You never know what you're going to get next. So well done on your show. I'm really enjoying listening to it.
- [04:08]
Sean Rivers
Yeah, I appreciate it. I think the easiest way to segue is, why do you even have eight of them? How do you even maintain keeping up with 8? I know that some of them are. Are more seasonal, but still, like doing one show, even if it's just one show a week, it can take a lot for people to do. How do you keep up with seven, eight, six at a time?
- [04:31]
Dave Campbell
I went into a meetup group in the UK because, you know, why not. I'm here in Canada. Why not join a UK meetup group for podcasters? And I came into the group and first time on. On the meetup, they go around the room and they're like, oh, there's a Canadian. I have a Canadian flag behind me in the video. And they're like, oh, who's this guy? So I'm like, introduce yourself, Dave, and tell us about your podcast. And I'm like, okay, here we go. So I come on, I'm like, hi, my name is Dave. I'm in Canada and I have eight podcasts. And they're like, oh, honey, so great. Eight episodes. You're new. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Eight podcasts. And they're like, and you can See the people on the zoom, look up at the cameras, all of them. And then looking at each other on the screen like, did he just say eight? Yeah, eight. So, yeah. So two of my shows have three episodes a week. I talk to about 25 people a week in pre interviews and interviews. I do all my own editing. I actually have started editing for other people and helping them with their shows. And I work full time. So as we're recording, this is like 9:30 in the morning. I've been up since 9:00 last night, so I've worked all night and now I'm here with you. I have my coffee and that's basically how I survive. So I notice you have your Buy me a coffee now. Congrats, Sean. Everyone needs to go buy Sean coffee and you need to put the link in the show notes. Go buy Sean some coffee. But I live off my, my coffee. So that's how I do it. But I just love. Each of my shows are different. They all have their own website, they all have their own social media, they all have their own communities and they're, they don't really blend with each other. They're all standalone podcasts. So I just have a variety of things that I love and I just. To have one podcast for me seems like not enough. I know it's. It is. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. Don't try this at home. But for me it's just, it works. And if I could do more, I have more ideas, Sean, but I'm not allowed to do them. My wife said no.
- [06:35]
Sean Rivers
So when I look at this, success means something different to everyone. And work life balance means something to everyone. What does work life balance look like and mean to you?
- [06:47]
Dave Campbell
So I want to challenge the whole notion of work life balance. I think it's more like work life harmony. They have to kind of work together because there's going to be times when you have to go to work. You can't be with your kids, for example, you can't be with your partner. You have to be at work. You got to do the thing. So in that moment, there's no balance. You're at work. There's times when you're going to be home and it's the weekend and your boss calls you in to come work. No, I'm with my family. So you've chosen your family. There's. There's not really a. There's not really a balance. For me, it's more of a harmony. How do they fit together? And at times one's going to take priority over the other. But there's got to be a harmony back to a level in between. Think of that old weigh scale where you put one weight in one little holder and one weight in the other holder and it would be out of balance. You could tell. But you get that sweet spot where it's just evenly balanced. That's harmony for me. So there is times when I spend a lot of time podcasting, but I do that when my wife's at work. So it doesn't bother her because I at 7 o'clock when she comes home from work, I shut down. I'm waiting for her upstairs as she walks through the door. But in the meantime, when she's at work, I podcast like crazy because there's time and Right. So it's harmony free.
- [08:04]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. So what was the first podcast like that you, that you started and why did you initially start it at all?
- [08:12]
Dave Campbell
Yeah, first one was called the Upcycle Canada podcast. My wife and I have a small business we've had for 10 years. At that time, 10 years ago, we were working three part time jobs each. So six part time jobs for the two of us. We have three young children at home and we were balancing. Sometimes my wife would work three jobs in one day. So that kind of gives you an idea of kind of how we're wired. But, but we wanted something to make a little bit of extra money to, you know, dentists for the kids and medicine and stuff. So we created our own little business where we take things people don't want. They're going to throw them away, old furniture, clothing, materials, and we repurpose them and make them into something else. We call ourselves Upcycle instead of recycle. Upcycle Canada. And so like for example, I mentioned I have a Canada flag behind me. That's the drawer front from a drawer from a dresser. And the dresser was being thrown away. So we took the drawer off, repainted it as a Canadian flag and now it's behind me. And that was going to go in the landfill. So it's all about repurposing and redirecting waste. So we've been doing this for 10 years. So during the pandemic, we weren't able to see our customers, but our customers, because we live in Niagara Falls, they would buy our products and take them home. So we have products in England, Mexico, Colombia, the US through throughout Europe. People would buy our stuff and fly home with it. So what better way to talk to our customers than a podcast? So the two of us, Jen And I, we started our podcast and we just brought people on who do things like we do and shine the light on other people. So that was the first podcast and from there it was a very slippery slope. We just kept going and going and I just kept chasing that podcast dream. And yeah, here we are.
- [10:02]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. So did you have some type of speaking background beforehand? Did you enjoy doing radio, anything like that? Did you always enjoy having conversations or. I'm trying to figure out where all this stemmed from because you 25 conversations a week, if that can be draining. But if you really like it, I mean, it can be very fulfilling. But I'm sure that every single 25 people that you go and have a conversation with, especially when you're pre interviewing, pre qualifying someone, it's not always necessarily an energetic match, you know, now that can only be a 15, 20 minute conversation.
- [10:37]
Dave Campbell
But still, yeah, for me, I guess the biggest part of my life is music. So I've been a musician Since I was 10 years of age, so that's a long time ago. But I love music. So in doing music, I'm out on stage, I'm in, I'm in recording studios, doing some touring here around Canada. So I love being up on stage. Even though I'm quite of an introvert, I'm kind of the guy who wants to leave the party 10 minutes after getting there. But when I get up on stage, I have to put on this Persona because now I'm in front of a large group of people and you gotta show up, you gotta do your thing even if you're not feeling it. The crowd's there and the band's going on and you, there's no choice. You can't just say, I'm, I'm not doing this. No, get out there and play. So I do that and then I do a lot of music editing and doing music editing and then hearing podcasts, I'm like, wait a minute, I can do this. I have all the gear. I've been doing this forever. It's just simple to go from music to spoken word. I can do this. And yeah, that's, that's kind of the connection.
- [11:41]
Sean Rivers
Yeah, I think I want to hit on that a little bit more because I think something that people really struggle with is when there's resistance to doing something right, we look to identify ourselves as introverted and then everything extroverted. No, that's not me. So I'm not going to do it right. And so especially even with like, you know, my big things, health and fitness, well, I'M not a healthy person, so I don't go to the gym, I don't eat healthy. It's because we don't view ourselves as a healthy person. And so did you have to go and make that big identity switch in order to say, hey, you know what, I am extroverted and I can do this? Or was it more of brute force where it was just, regardless of how I feel, this is what I'm going to do? Or perhaps just it was, hey, this is my alter ego, right? Are any of those kind of resonating in terms of how you, how you started to do that?
- [12:38]
Dave Campbell
Probably a mix of them all, I would think. I think, like, I could easily just be the introverted guy who just claims that as my title. And I never push myself. I'll never meet anybody. I would never have met you, I would never podcast because I'm afraid that people wouldn't like me, wouldn't like my voice. You know, who would ever listen to me, right? So I, I would always battle that and I'd battle that in music. Like, there's better musicians than me, there's better guitar players than me.
- [13:13]
Sean Rivers
Guys, brief intermission. Thank you guys for supporting the show. And overall, just listening to the show, I never take it lightly or for granted for anyone that gives me their time and attention. So if you have not done so already, whatever platform that you are on, please consider giving this show a five star review. Liking the episode, sharing it with your friends, be sure to tag me in your Instagram stories. That way I actually know who is listening to the show. If you also want me to know who's listening to the show, go to the Show Notes and there's a couple cool things. There is my sneak pipe where you can actually send me a voice message and it will be aired on the show for everyone to hear. It lets me know that you're listening and I greatly, greatly appreciate it. There is also my buymeacoffee.com in the show notes where you can support this independent podcast. All of the donations will go to the podcast itself. And and lastly, if you are sick of not being in control of your health, I want to see if we are a good fit to work together. Take back control of your health, your nutrition and your overall lifestyle. Build true confidence. Fill out my application in the show notes and I will see if we are a good fit to work together. Guys, let's get back to the show.
- [14:34]
Dave Campbell
But when I got up on stage and got up there and played something magic happens because you're Doing it in a group setting, you're doing it with other people, and the support from the crowd made you better. Right? So I could buy a guitar, practice in my basement, learn how to play some chords, and that's it. But the moment you get in front of a crowd, you have to raise your game up a little bit more, because now it's not just for yourself, it's for others. And in podcasting, it's the same thing. Right? I can. I could talk to my dog, that's for myself. But I. When I talk to people, I have to like, okay, this is a little more serious. Like, people are listening to this, hopefully. I would love to make sure that I'm doing my best for them. So I'm going to raise my game up. I'm going to be a little bit more out there than I would normally be. You meet me at a conference or a meeting. I am going to be pretty quiet at first if I. Especially if I don't know who you are. But I get to be a little bit like an elevated version of Dave in a group setting because I gotta. I gotta be in. I gotta. I gotta show up and I gotta enjoy this because people might want to come and talk to me and I need to meet these other people. So it's a great way for me to be a better version of myself. And by podcasting, it forces me to do things I wouldn't naturally do on my own. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I could never podcast, I challenge you that. There's a lot of things you've done in life that it's been really hard to do, and you're doing them quite well, to the point now where you don't even think about it. I. My first car was a manual transmission, five speed. And when I first got in that thing, I'm like, I can't do this. Clutch, gas, brake, three pedals, two feet. How the heck do you do that? Right? You get on a really steep hill and you got to go from clutch to gas to break, and there's a car right behind you, and you're like going to roll backwards and hit them. I'm like, you just got to figure it out.
- [16:30]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [16:31]
Dave Campbell
But now I tell everybody I can't drive an automatic car. I have. I can only drive standard. And they're like, what? So it's just. It becomes a part of you. And once you grow into that, there's really no going back. And that's why I love podcasting.
- [16:44]
Sean Rivers
Do you think that what separates a really great podcaster from someone that just never breaks that. That threshold? Do you think it's actually that switch where it's, I'm doing this for myself to I'm doing this for everyone else? Do you think that's a big part of it?
- [17:04]
Dave Campbell
For me, the biggest part of it is community, I guess, because when we podcast, like, back to your earlier episodes, right? You get on the mic, you record this thing you put out in the world, and you go, I don't know, maybe someone will listen to this. Yeah, but the moment somebody reaches out to you, like through your speak pipe, for example, and leaves you a message, and they're like, hey, Sean, I love your show. Episode six was amazing. You know, I'm doing life differently because of you. Like, that moment's like, wait, this is working. Like, there's actually a person out there. And now it's going from beyond this imaginary person you might be talking to to the actual person you're talking to. It's like, now I have a name. I have Sean. Sean has heard my episode, and now I can think of Sean when I record my next podcast and do the show for Sean. Right? So it's a. It's a different thing that helps you become better at what you do because you're. There's a community around it, and the podcast community between, like, fellow podcasters and then listeners are amazing. It's so different than social media. It's so different than radio. It's different than music. It's. There's a. There's a community of listeners and fellow podcasters that push you to make you better. And that's what I love about this.
- [18:25]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. Now you're telling me beforehand, you had a couple of stranger interactions recently. Did you want to touch on one or two of those? Just share them with us?
- [18:34]
Dave Campbell
And, yeah, I have some fun ones. I just did an interview for my Living the Next Chapter podcast, my author podcast. I had an email came come into me about two, three months ago saying, guess, guest suggestion. I'm like, oh, here we go. I'm like, sometimes they're good. Sometimes they're not so good, those emails. And I'm looking at them, reading it, and the name, the last name seemed really familiar. So I'm reading through this, and it was written to me on behalf of the PR agency sending it to me. I'm reading it, I'm reading it. I'm like, wait a minute. And the last name was Nimoy. And I'm like, nimoy, Nimoy. Like as in Leonard Nimoy? As in Spock from Star Trek Nemoy? Yeah, it's his son Adam wrote a book about his dad and wanted to come on the show to talk about his new book.
- [19:23]
Sean Rivers
Wow.
- [19:25]
Dave Campbell
So here I am last week interviewing Adam Nimoy, who was on the Big Bang Theory TV show. Right? He was a guest star on that show. His dad was also on that show. This guy, his he's is a director. He's done all kinds of TV and movies. He's really a big name in the space. And he wants to talk to me. I'm like, this is like, I'm a guy in my downstairs basement. I'm wearing pajama pants and a T shirt. And this guy is in California and he's all dressed nice. He speaks on red carpets. He speak. People want time with him. And here he is giving me an hour of his time and we had a great conversation. And like when I was a kid, I was the kid with the Star Trek lunchbox, right? With his dad on the front of it. And now I'm talking to the kid who. That's his dad. Like, it's, it's about a podcast. Like, I can't believe I have this opportunity. There is again, back to my original point. There's no way I would ever have time with this guy, ever. If I called him up on the phone and said, hey, Adam, my name's Dave, I would love to have a coffee with you, he'd be like, go away, kid, you bother me. Like, why are you calling me? But when he's reaching out to me through his agency to come on my show again, that didn't happen in the first five episodes. I have 390 episodes for that podcast. It took a while, but his agency saw something in the podcast that was a good fit for him. And there he is on my screen, just like we're doing right now. The most amazing experience. I was so nervous. I don't want to screw this up. Yeah, he, right, he talks to big names, not some guy in Canada. So I, I just thought it was so cool that a podcast can lead to speaking to people that really you have no business talking to. And now I, I walked away from that going, I'm not just a podcaster anymore, I'm the media. Yep, right. And I'm not like the 15 minute interview on the morning show, right? Where you're sitting down with some host on a TV show and they don't even know who you are. And they're like, so you're an author. Yeah. Tell me about your story. Well, I'm a guy talking to you for an hour.
- [21:47]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [21:48]
Dave Campbell
And I'm media. And it's just like this revelation that this is more than just a podcast. In that moment, I get to talk to great people. It's awesome.
- [21:58]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. A couple of different synchronicities. Synchronicities that I've started to see. Just like how you had talked about on my show. Oh, if you go and listen to episode six. Episode six, when you had said, that is actually my most popular episode, which is very interesting, you know, very strange that you go and say something like that. Right.
- [22:18]
Dave Campbell
I listen to your show. So there you go. I like that episode.
- [22:21]
Sean Rivers
And then the same thing, like you being a Star Trek fan, having Spock on your lunchbox. And then that's the synchronicity that I'm seeing here. It's like, how do you even. Like, that's the person that's going to reach out. That's the son that's going to reach out. Like, it just. I think the world shows you, hey, you're on the right path when stuff like that starts to line up and you didn't expect it. Right. And so. But I love the point that you had just started to bring up about how this is, this is media. This is. This is how people are getting their information. This is how people are getting their news. Do you think that this is the way the world is shifting in terms of media on television will go away? And I understand, you know, we're just making some, some well educated guesses or opinions here. Do you think five, 10 years that's going to go away and it's all just going to be stuff like this, or even just the next wave of whatever podcasts or social media looks like.
- [23:27]
Dave Campbell
I think that podcasters are increasingly being seen as more trustworthy as a source of information than a lot of the other things in the world. Again, you listen to your local radio station, most likely it's not local. It's probably a part of a big group of radio stations, and you're not getting anything that's truly local to your area. It's just piped in from some big master computer somewhere. And the people on the, on the mic don't even live in your town. Right. So that whole local and personal interaction that we have in podcasting it, it's hard to beat. It's really hard to beat because these are. This is two human beings having a conversation. There's no AI being used. Right. Now it's just the two of us, right? So I think that we are increasingly being seen as influential. And I'm not talking about, hey, look at my shoes. Yeah, buy my shoes. It's more. This is what. How I see the world. And this is. These are some tools or a book that I read or here's a resource for you that'll help you. And that's what I like about your show, is you're really focusing in on that. You're here to help people and help them live healthier. So that's what I love about your show. I just think that once you make a connection back to Community, you make a connection with someone, they start emulating you, they start copying you, they start doing the thing. I can listen to shows of people who have been listening to my show, and I hear them saying things that I say or doing the things that I do. I'm doing that on purpose. I want to show you how to do this. That's why I have the how to Podcast series. It's in the name. I. I want to show you ways to be a podcaster. By no means am I saying it's the only way or the best way. I'm saying it's one of the ways. But when I hear people, you know, for example, you have your speak bite, you have your buy me a coffee. I'm like, see, there you go. Those are things I've been trying to promote on my show to help podcasters grow and get feedback from their audience and make some money with their show. Yeah, those are two ways. And the fact that you have that set up, that's. That's amazing. So when I hear and see people doing things that I. I think can help them, and they put it into practice, it's so rewarding. It's like they're doing the thing and it's. And it's working. I love that.
- [25:49]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. I think that, like, a great point and an underlying thing that you're talking about here is that the world is very abundant. Right. And so when you're looking at, okay, I want people to emulate me, I want people to copy me. Some people will withhold information because, oh, I don't want. And I don't want someone else to steal this and. And do this, and then I won't be able to ever have business because they did it, and it was my idea first. Did you always have this abundant mentality of, you know what, Like, I'm just gonna give, give, give, give, give, and I can be successful other Podcasters can be successful, or did you have to go through something where it was, ooh, I feel a little scarce now, and I gotta make this switch. I gotta. I gotta jump over this bridge to get there.
- [26:39]
Dave Campbell
Think of your favorite inventor, whoever that is. Could be. Could be current. It could be in the past. How many inventions would one inventor have? One invention and that's it. I invent one thing and I'm done. No, they usually invent a lot of things, right? They always have. They're always tinkering. They're always like, well, what about this? What about this? What about this? For me, in podcasting, I don't have. Again, I have eight. I don't have one thing that I do. I do multiple things.
- [27:05]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [27:05]
Dave Campbell
So my mind is always working on the next thing. And when I kind of do a little smile when I hear people that are, I would say, kind of like, do the same thing that I do. Talk about podcasting. And then they. I released an episode in about three weeks later, they release almost the same episode. And I'm like, well, that's interesting because I put a lot of work and time into that, and I pulled all those resources, and now I listen to their show and it's like they just did something very close to what I did. I smile and I'm like, well, if I had any part of influence on that, great. I think that's awesome because maybe they're listening to my show and if they're getting value out of that now, they're duplicating that value and sending it to their audience. They're not giving me credit. If they did pull it from mine. That's. I'm not looking for that.
- [27:52]
Sean Rivers
Right.
- [27:53]
Dave Campbell
I'm more, again, to the abundance mentality. I just want to be able to put more out into the world. And if people want to use that for their purposes, great. That means more people are going to do more of that. My biggest thing in podcasting is I just want to create a positive atmosphere around podcasting where I've heard some negativity from some people in the space who seem to have one way to do this podcast thing. And I think there's multiple ways of podcasting and doing it well. So what I do is instead of having a show where I'm the host and you only hear my voice, I bring on guest. Co host. I brought. You were on. You were an amazing episode. So I just like hearing other voices in podcasting because there's a secret here. My wife will definitely confirm this. I don't Know what? I don't know. Right. I only know what I know. So by bringing you on, you might do something completely different than I do. And now I'm the student.
- [28:52]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [28:52]
Dave Campbell
I'm learning from you. You're like, but I have five episodes. Yeah. But you're a podcaster.
- [28:58]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [28:59]
Dave Campbell
And I can learn from you.
- [29:00]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [29:01]
Dave Campbell
So it's not about one single voice in podcasting, and it has to be Dave's way or it's not. Right. No, it can be Sean's way and be perfectly fine for you. And so I bring on guest co hosts, and I get as much. Many voices on as possible, and sometimes we don't even agree. And I love that because that means there's space for everyone. And I think podcasting is truly for everyone.
- [29:26]
Sean Rivers
Yep. So when you. With how many people you talk to, how many different conversations, how many podcasts you've just listened to in general, I don't know how. How much you keep in touch with people afterwards. I mean, with the amount of people, it's. You can't keep in touch with everyone. Right. But the people that actually quit podcasting, why do you think the majority of people that you have seen decide this is no longer for me?
- [29:53]
Dave Campbell
Sometimes they've started for the wrong reason.
- [29:56]
Sean Rivers
Okay.
- [29:57]
Dave Campbell
So they look at someone like Joe Rogan, who is way down the road and been doing this for a very long time. He's got a big machine behind him that makes all this possible. And then there's, you know, you and I, Sean, like, we're early days in this compared to him.
- [30:15]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [30:16]
Dave Campbell
Most. Most podcasters are early days compared to him. He has fame, he's got a background. He's got television and comedy. He's got, back in the day, the Fear Factor. I'm like, you love that show.
- [30:28]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [30:29]
Dave Campbell
He'd been doing this for so long, he's built a name, and now his name has turned into a podcast. So people who I find think that I can record five episodes and be Joe Rogan famous with five episodes and no. No history. No. No hard work. That's not how it works.
- [30:49]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [30:50]
Dave Campbell
So one good comparison would be Mr. Beast on YouTube.
- [30:54]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [30:54]
Dave Campbell
So go back to Mr. Beast first 10 posts on YouTube. Okay. Where he got like, 70 people, 30 people looking at his video on YouTube. That's the beginning of Mr. Beast.
- [31:12]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [31:13]
Dave Campbell
So if you look at your beginning and Compare it to Mr. Beast's beginning, he had 20 views, and you have 22 views, you're doing better than Mr. Beast.
- [31:24]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [31:25]
Dave Campbell
Think of it that way.
- [31:26]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [31:26]
Dave Campbell
Okay. Don't think of it as Mr. Beast today compared to Sean today. That's not fair. That's not. That's not a fair comparison. So when people get into podcasting for the wrong reasons and don't see the success that they anticipate to get, they're not making a lot of money out the door right at the start, then they give up. They're like, well, you know, this is a lot of work, and I have a job, and I can't do both, so I'll quit. Or they run out of ideas because they don't know who they're talking to. You know, they create an episode. They create five episodes, and then they're like, I don't know what to talk about anymore. I'm just gonna quietly exit. And that was fun. So it's sad because there's a lot of great people out there who can help a lot of people with their voice and their story. So my goal is to try to keep people podcasting as long as it serves them.
- [32:19]
Sean Rivers
Yeah, that's all something that really helped me, especially this last week. In terms of reframing and comparing yourself to others, I could go just like we're Talking about Rogan, Mr. Beast, all of these bigger names, for lack of a better term. So when you start to look at Lebron, people want to go and emulate LeBron and what is his workout routine right now? Right, but his workout routine right now is six hours a day and. Or whatever. And, you know, $100,000 on recovery, whatever it is. Right, and people want to go and try to emulate that in order to get there, but really they should be Studying, what was LeBron doing in high school? What was LeBron doing in college that ended up to get them there? And I think it's the same thing that we're trying to say, where you go and look at Mr. Beast right now, and you try to emulate what he's doing, but that's not going to get you to where he is. If you go and emulate what he was doing 10 years ago, that's going to be a much better indicator of how to get. How to get where he is. Not saying that you always need to compare, but if you're gonna compare, why are you comparing to his chapter 10 when you're on chapter negative four? And really, you need to go, all right, I'm on chapter one. Where was he at chapter one? What can I take away from what he was doing there? You know, So I think that's it. That's important just to. Just to bring up. And so what I also want to hear, if we're looking to, again, speculate, just give some well educated guesses here within the next five to 10 years, or let's say more like one to two years, do you think that there's a couple of names or different podcasts that you think are going to start to blow up? Right. So Joe Rogan's already at the top. I look at someone like Chris Williamson with Modern Wisdom. I don't know if you know that podcast. Yeah, that was really something that it felt like it was just automatically, just within a year, it just blew up. Right. I look at something like Diary of a CEO with Stephen Barlett. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that one. Again, it just felt like. And they have a lot of episodes and they've done a lot of work and no discredit to them. Right. They've worked very hard. It feels like they're an overnight success even though they're not. Are there any podcasts right now that either you think can get to that point where you can just see, okay, they're an overnight success like that, or can you give us some tips on perhaps what they did in order to, hey, you're not working hard enough to get where they are right now?
- [35:10]
Dave Campbell
Well, I love the journey of, like, Smart List, for example. Right. And what I love about their show is they do just whatever they want. It's like they don't really care. They don't. They. Their commercials are funny. They make fun of themselves. They just, they do everything wrong. And I guess the one thing when I look at, when I say wrong in the sense that it's against everything that's been taught in podcasting, so. Which I like, actually, I like the fact that they do it different than everyone else. But the one thing that they, they have the advantage of being famous. Right. Again, back to all the other stuff we talk about so they can get away with it. So. But the problem is with somebody brand new thinks, well, if Smart List can do it this way, I'm going to do it that way. And then they. They don't see the results because they're not famous.
- [35:58]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Dave Campbell
Right. And people are like, this just feels like a bad version of Smartless.
- [36:04]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [36:05]
Dave Campbell
So they stop. It was like the whole E. On fire. Right. Everybody wanted to be E. On fire, entrepreneurs on fire. So everybody was like teachers on fire and gardeners on fire and firefighters on fire. It was like everybody was on fire.
- [36:19]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [36:19]
Dave Campbell
Right. And Everybody did it the same way because it worked. So, hey, I'm just going to copy it and do it my version. And eventually just got to the point where it was so watered down that it didn't have the same impact anymore.
- [36:30]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [36:30]
Dave Campbell
So a lot of it just depends on. I, I think you should be you. That's the first thing for a podcaster, because no one else can be you. Right. John Lee Dumas is John Lee Dumas. That's him. You know, so he does it really well. Stephen Bartlett is Stephen Bartlett. So he's not trying to be someone else. Joe Rogan's not trying to be someone else. They're all trying to be themselves. So I think in podcasting, a lot of us try to copy other people, which is, can be good because you can learn from other people, but at the same time, you're trying to copy the results as well. And the results, again, are going to vary depending on your effort time, all that. Right.
- [37:11]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [37:11]
Dave Campbell
I think the podcasts that are going to blow up are the podcasts that connect with people. That's. That's it really. And you can start today and you can pass all of the other podcasts that have been around for years just by doing community better, by doing connection with your audience better, by doing content better. Because you can start where other people have taken them 10, 15 years to get here and learn from them. You can skip all that. So you're not starting where they started back to, you know, 15 years ago. You're starting at their 15 year mark. Could you learn from them and go, I'm going to fast track and I'm going to start at a different spot than they did. Think of a race in public school, grade school, where you had to run, you know, like a mile or two. And if everybody started at the same line, it would be fair. But sometimes people can start later on in the race.
- [38:05]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [38:06]
Dave Campbell
And they already got a head start on you. And you're like, well, that's not fair. Yeah, but they learned from you and they got a little head, head start on you. So it. We all start at different spots and some people will start ahead of you, some will start behind you, but you can learn from each other.
- [38:21]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [38:22]
Dave Campbell
And I think the best podcast going forward will be the ones that connect and build community. If you don't have community and you don't have that focus on the listener, it's going to be a lot harder.
- [38:31]
Sean Rivers
So what does it actually take to go and build a community? Where would you start building a community? How Would you start?
- [38:39]
Dave Campbell
Well, starting your podcast, obviously, you don't have a community right at the beginning. For most of us, again, we're not Joe Rogan famous, so we're starting with zero. So I like the idea of building the content out for the person that you think would listen to the show. Some people will call that an avatar. I challenge that and say, I just build the podcast that I would listen to, because I'm the only one listening. I hit record, I put it out there, and my listenership is one me. I listen to make sure I didn't make any mistakes there. I just listened to my show. So I make the show that I would listen to and I think is not out there in the space. So health podcasts. What? Thousands of health podcasts out there to make you live healthy.
- [39:25]
Sean Rivers
Oh, yeah.
- [39:25]
Dave Campbell
But there's only one podcast on health by Sean Rivers. Yeah, right. There's the only one.
- [39:31]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [39:31]
Dave Campbell
So you're unique, and no one sees the world the way you do. So make the show that you would listen to. And by doing so, anyone that listens to your show in the future is going to like you as the host because you're making the show that you like. It's true. So when I listen to it, I like the show because I like you.
- [39:51]
Sean Rivers
That's true.
- [39:51]
Dave Campbell
So now I have a connection with you as a listener, and I haven't even met you yet.
- [39:54]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [39:55]
Dave Campbell
But I'm hitting play on your episodes because I like how you talk. I like how you interview people. I like the value you're giving to me on every episode. So I already have a relationship with you, and we've never even met. Yeah, right. And then when you put a speak pipe out there and say, hey, if you want to leave a message to be on, you know, my podcast, leave a message. And I'm like, hey, Sean, it's Dave in Canada. I listen to your show. I love episode six.
- [40:18]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [40:18]
Dave Campbell
You're like, oh, my gosh.
- [40:20]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [40:21]
Dave Campbell
Right? There's a listener. So now I have. I have one listener, and I challenge everybody when they get tied up in numbers about podcasting, that I have to have a thousand listeners or 100,000 listeners or 500,000 listeners. I won't. I won't rest until I get that number. And they almost treat like a small audience is a failure. I don't like that. I think that a small audience is something where you can build a community right there. So if there's five people listening to your show, Sean, I would do everything I can possible to find out who they are to talk to them and have time like this on the screen or voicemail or something where I can hear their voice or see them on my screen. And if I could get those five people and I have interaction with them, I think I could turn that into six people, which can turn into 10, which is turned in 20 to 30 to 50 to 80 to 100. That happens one at a time.
- [41:19]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [41:20]
Dave Campbell
And I think we need to celebrate the small. When our kids are little, we want them to hurry up and grow up so we can go do stuff with them. But then we get. They get to the point when they're so old, they leave. My kids are out of the house. I'm an empty nest, Dad. I would love to have them back, but they're all doing life now. They're gone. So as much as I wanted them to hurry up and grow up, I want my audience to hurry up and get big. I miss when they were little. I miss when my audience was small and I could have time with them in a smaller format without feeling like I'm neglecting anybody. As your podcast gets bigger, Joe Rogan does not have time for one on one time with every one of us that listens to a show. Possible.
- [42:02]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [42:03]
Dave Campbell
Totally impossible, right? So celebrate the small. When you have five listeners, that's not failure. That's the foundation for your podcast.
- [42:12]
Sean Rivers
Wow, that's a great way to put it that I have not heard before. So that's. That's really important. And especially, like, first thing that I came up, that came up for me was we look at social media and, you know, like, my, my time, I grew up more with social media as opposed to. You did, right? Yeah. Clearly you're a little bit older than me. Right.
- [42:32]
Dave Campbell
Thanks. Yeah, yeah, I know that.
- [42:35]
Sean Rivers
So. But I look at, you know, people are so concerned at Instagram followers and, you know, how many views, listens, all this, all this kind of stuff and just like what you're saying, right. I always try to reframe it, as you know, I have like a thousand followers on Instagram or whatever it is. If you turn that into 10%. And I'm not even talking community here. Right. I'm a business owner. If that became 10% as customers, that's 100 people. Imagine if you had 100 new customers. Right. 10% of your audience, that's all you need. Not even. You don't even need that even 5%. Imagine 50 if, if, if you had a thousand Instagram followers and 5% became customers. Oh, my God, 50 people imagine 50 people every single year that were new customers for you. Oh my God, you'd never, you wouldn't have to worry about customers again, right?
- [43:27]
Dave Campbell
Yeah.
- [43:27]
Sean Rivers
And so I think it's the same thing you're saying, right? So like building a community. Those five people, if those five people stick around every single year, if you got to 30, you know, within five years, 30 customers a year, you could, depending on your business, right? I have a service based business. You can, you can live a very great life with 30 customers a year. And that's it. And that's all you need. Right. And I'm talking customers, you're talking community. Both intertwined just a little bit, depending on what you're doing. Right. To. To preface like, or not preface, but to go with what you were saying of you need to be yourself. Right. I think that's one of the most difficult conversations that I have with people and people don't know themselves very well and so they have a hard time going and actually like being themselves, starting a podcast or, you know, being on a podcast or even just everyday conversations, they don't really know themselves. Are there any ways or tips or even just like little epiphany type moments that you've had that you were like, oh, this is, this is the real me. Or did you have to do some, some deeper work with. It has. I don't know which direction you want to go looking at. Just, hey, this is, this is me, right? As opposed to this is the fake version of me.
- [44:49]
Dave Campbell
Yeah. So I did an episode on my podcast. I'm just trying to pull up on my screen while we're chatting. I. When my kids were little, we would go out, we would go out and do like a dirt bike thing. I've got three kids, my wife Jen. So the five of us, we would pile in the van and I'd take them to this place and we would, we would get training in the morning and we'd had all different size bikes, right, for my kids and myself and my wife. And then we would training in the morning. In the afternoons we would go ride the trails. We would have a trainer with us who would be in the front of the pack and a trainer at the back. So there's seven of us total. We'd hit the trails. So much fun, right? So it's episode 245 of how to Podcast. On episode 245, I talk about the fact that on one of these trips with my family, we're riding around with these two trainers and we get to this One part where there's kind of like a little mini track off the main track. And it's kind of like this little practice area, little tiny hills and, you know, little curves. And it's. It's meant for beginners, really. So my kids are out there booting around, having a great time. It was really fun. My wife's out there. She wipes out. She hasn't. She's having a great time. She. It's. We're just kind of going around this little kids kind of track, Right. And we're just kind of filling time. It's kind of a break. The main guy who's training us pulls up beside me on the bike and he's like, dave, you look bored. And I'm like, no, I'm having a great time. Like, I have my helmet on right. So I can't hear everything he's saying. I'm like, I'm having a great time. This is fun. He's like, no, come on, come with me. I'm going to show you some trails. Now, I have been riding. Like, I don't ride every day.
- [46:32]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [46:33]
Dave Campbell
But in that I've been riding for about four hours by that point and doing, like, little easy trails with my family because my kids are young. He's like, come with me. Follow me. And I'm like, where are we going? He's like, I'm going to take you on the good trails. I'm like, what are the good trails? Like, not my wife and my kids, just me. And I'm like, I'm panicking.
- [46:53]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [46:53]
Dave Campbell
Right. He's like, you got this. I watched you ride. You're fine. Come on, let's go. And he just tears off into the bush. Like, I can't. I can hear him, but he's gone.
- [47:04]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [47:04]
Dave Campbell
And I know he went that way, so I gotta go, right. Because he's gonna be looking for me. So my wife's like, where are you going? I'm like, I don't know. So I just go, take off and follow him. And we go into the. The probably the hardest trails ever. Okay. Again, I'm on this huge bike. I've really. I don't have a lot of experience. Somehow I fooled him into thinking that. He thinks, I know I don't do what I'm doing. I don't.
- [47:29]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [47:29]
Dave Campbell
But I'm faking it really well. And I'm riding through these trails. We're up on cliffs. We're in deep, deep valleys and deep ruts and water and trees hitting me in the face. And, you know, and I just kept going because he would go down a hill and back up the other one, and he'd wait. He looked behind me, behind him, and here I come. I follow his line. Wherever he goes, I go. I just kept going the whole time. My heart's going to come out of my throat like, I'm going to die, right? I'm just like, oh, Lord. Oh, Lord, I'm going down these hills. Like, I'm. I'm saying all kinds of interesting things that I can't say on your podcast. And, you know, a few times we would stop at a. Like, a little spot, and he's like, you're doing great. And I'm like, seriously? He's like, yeah, this is great. Isn't this fun? And I'm like, no. Like, this is not fun, because I'm fearing for my life here.
- [48:16]
Sean Rivers
Yep.
- [48:16]
Dave Campbell
And he's like, come on, let's do it again. And we. So we rode for, like, 20, 30 minutes, the two of us. And then he took me back to the main part, where my wife and my kids were. He's like, he did great. And in that moment, I realized something about myself, that I thought I was good on the little tracks with little bits of effort, and that's fun enough. If he hadn't pulled up beside me and said, dave, I see greatness in you. You can do bigger things than this little track. Come with me. I want to show you some fun stuff. Like, this is great, and all your kids are having a great time, but your kids are 7 years old. Come with the adults. Let's go over here, and I'm going to show you what riding a bike really should be. So he took me on these trails. So what I do in podcasting is I pull up beside someone like you, Sean, and I go, sean, I see greatness in you. You can do this. Come with me, and I want to show you how fun this can be. And you're like, but I can't do this. I. I'm not good at this. I'm an introvert. I don't know how to talk on a microphone. I don't know what technology to use. I don't know, should I have a website? Do I need social media? I don't know how to do all these things. How do I be a guest? How do I be a host to get all this? I just want to do the easy thing, right? But I'm like, sean, you can do this. Come with me, and let's do this together. I want to show you how fun this can be as a podcaster.
- [49:40]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [49:41]
Dave Campbell
So I'm on the hunt to bring out greatness in other people. I want to be that person who rise up beside you and goes, you look bored, Sean.
- [49:49]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [49:50]
Dave Campbell
Come. Come with me. I want to show you something. Right? And then you're like, but I don't think I can do this. I'm freaking out. I'm nervous. I'm afraid. But then when you come back, you're like, you know what? I did it. I did something I would never do on my own because somebody saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. So that's what I do in podcasting, is I just want to come inside you, and you can give me a hundred excuses about why you can't do this thing, but I see something in you that's different. So let's focus on that, and let's bring that out a little bit, and let's go have some fun. Right. And if you don't stay as a podcaster, you've had some fun learning about something new about yourself that you would have never done otherwise. So jump on the bike. Let's go for a ride. I want to show you how fun podcasting can be. Wow.
- [50:39]
Sean Rivers
That was. I've. I've got chills over here. This is, you know, like one of the. One of the most powerful stories that has ever been portrayed on the podcast, for sure.
- [50:48]
Dave Campbell
So there you go.
- [50:49]
Sean Rivers
I applaud you and honor you there. Right? That was.
- [50:54]
Dave Campbell
See, so if you go listen to episode 245, you'll actually hear that story. But then I threw in the sounds of motorcycles in behind me so you can hear what it sounded like for me on the bike to kind of give you some kind of that background NPR thing going on behind you. Yeah. So I was having fun with my editing in that one, too, so.
- [51:13]
Sean Rivers
Oh, my God. That was. Yeah, that's. That's good stuff right there. Like, that's the perfect place where it's all right. I don't need anything more, Dave. I want to hear where we can find you, connect with you, all those types of things if you're accepting guests or if you want to be a guest on more podcast or just plugs for your own podcast. And then I'll. I'll ask you the last question here.
- [51:35]
Dave Campbell
I love it, Sean. Great. I love how you did that, because that's what I do on my show. It's very well done. So howtopodcast CA is my website for my how to Podcast series. You can find me through there. Again, I have eight different podcasts. Just send me a message. I'll send you the links of them all. But that's kind of where I teach podcasting. And again, I'm the guy that's going to write up beside you and go, hey, Sean, I think you can do this. And you're doing it so well, so congratulations on that. And, yeah, I love being a guest. So if you have a show and you're looking for a guest, I'd love to chat. As you can tell, I love talking. But I'm also looking for guests for my podcast. I have an author podcast. I have a dad podcast. I have a children's podcast for Christmas. I love a lot of different things that I talk about, and I just love meeting great people. So whether you're Adam Nimoy or you're Sean Rivers, I would love to talk to you and get to know you as well.
- [52:31]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. So as we were talking about Diara CEO with Stephen Barlett, this is where I had taken it and adopted it for my own show. Last guest leaves a question for the next guest. Right. Oh. Which I. Which I enjoy. You perked right up there.
- [52:46]
Dave Campbell
You know, Here we go.
- [52:48]
Sean Rivers
And this is actually a really perfect question for you, so from Lissa Scott, who is a. Who is a branding expert.
- [52:57]
Dave Campbell
Wow.
- [53:00]
Sean Rivers
Dead or alive, three bands. You want to see live in concert before you die. Dead or alive is in the three bands or artists.
- [53:11]
Dave Campbell
Can I see them for a second time? Because I've already seen them.
- [53:13]
Sean Rivers
Yeah. Yeah.
- [53:14]
Dave Campbell
Okay. All right.
- [53:15]
Sean Rivers
Yeah, I don't see why not.
- [53:16]
Dave Campbell
So I, again, being a musician, I. I got to see the last concert with Eddie Van Halen in Toronto here in Canada with Sammy before he passed away. I would love to see Eddie Van Halen play the guitar again. Right. So that would be. That would be huge for me. I was center, like, underneath the clock on the main floor, right in the center of the building, right by the soundboard. It's the best sound in the world at that event because it goes to the sound guy behind me. And it was the best show ever. It was so good. So Van Halen with Eddie. I'm a Sammy guy, so I love Sammy Hagar, so that would be one for sure. Number two, I would say, oh, wow, I would love to see. I would. I've never seen Elvis Presley in person.
- [54:12]
Sean Rivers
Oh, wow.
- [54:13]
Dave Campbell
That would be really cool to see. Right. But I'd love to. I'd love to travel back in time and be in that crowd.
- [54:19]
Sean Rivers
Yeah.
- [54:19]
Dave Campbell
And be, like, the probably the only guy in the crowd with all the girls screaming. Yeah, I wanted that. And I want to see the Beatles come off the plane for the first time in the U.S. okay. You know, you see the video footage of that, but I want to stand on the tarmac and be there for that and then see them play and see the genius of those four guys together and what they did in this world. I would love to be there in the moment.
- [54:42]
Sean Rivers
Wow, that's. That's pretty sweet. So, Dave, thank you for coming on. All right, guys, if you have not checked out eight of Dave's podcasts, or if you have not started a podcast, Dave is the guy to listen to. So, Dave, thank you again.
- [54:54]
Dave Campbell
Awesome. Thanks, Sean.