← Growth Triggers: Content Marketing & AI
Growth Triggers: Content Marketing & AI
Short Form Expert: Best verbal hooks that are working NOW with Logan Forsyth
00:48:40
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- [00:00]
Logan Forsyth
If you're taking like these talking head clips, we just don't see a breakthrough like it used to.
- [00:06]
Luis Diaz
However, do you have a couple of go to hooks that you like that you've seen perform generally better than others?
- [00:12]
Logan Forsyth
One is more so looking at the psychology behind the hooks. Negative bass, hooks, crush.
- [00:18]
Luis Diaz
What are things that you see that are going to set you back that like if you do X, Y or Z, it's going to set you back.
- [00:24]
Logan Forsyth
I have an answer I love for you.
- [00:26]
Luis Diaz
I've helped generate over 50 million podcast downloads and work with over 250 podcasts. And the great thing about that is that I get to use all that information to share at least one helpful tip every single week to help you grow your influence and your online presence with video podcasting. Hey, my name is Luis Diaz. I run a company called Top 10 Podcasts and this show is dedicated to helping you learn at least one helpful tip every single episode to help you grow your influence and your online presence with video podcasting. So that sounds good. Let's get into it. Logan, it is, it's good to see you in person because I have seen you on my feed, Instagram fee for some for so long.
- [01:08]
Logan Forsyth
It works. So it was.
- [01:09]
Luis Diaz
Yeah, it's good to have you here, man. I selfishly want to jump into more of the tactics, strategies, what you see working and all of the things when it comes to growing with short form. But to peel back the layer a little bit because I know you have a bit of a crazy story. You've had a lot of failures, a lot of successes as well. What would be the highlight reel for somebody who doesn't know that would just want like the, you know, 30,000 foot view and then we can get into kind of more of the what's working today on short form.
- [01:43]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah. Of my background story and how we met some media scaling today. I mean some of our top highlights with what we've accomplished with media scaling. We just hit 10 billion views, which I'm excited about. 24 million plus followers game for clients. We have a team of about 145 people. So it's we've been very blessed with fast growth. But what got me started in the space is one, I'm just extremely lucky to grow up in the generation where when I was 18 years old I started seeing people on social media talk about, you know, digital marketing and ranking websites on with SEO and selling it to businesses and making passive income there and getting into drop shipping and I went down the rabbit hole of just buying courses and when I was, you know, 18 years old, I was, I had a very small line of credit and just started throwing things on the credit card and never stopped that process and always bet on myself. A lot of people want to talk down on courses. I think that they're incredible and I give them large credit to where I am today and what we've been able to accomplish. And so I just never stopped that process and kept investing, going to masterminds events, self learning courses, going out there, failing fast, reiterating, had multiple failed agencies, multiple failed drop shipping stores, and then started to see some early success with a local business marketing agency in 2020. And then at that same time, my business partner today with media scaling, we grew up together, he was going down a similar path and he was working for some larger personal brands internally, which we can get into if, if you'd like. But we just, we kept going and then in 2020 I ended up getting connected with Manny Koshman, who has a larger following. He had about 2 million followers at the time and it's known for his car collection. He's got world class Bugattis, McLarens, Paganis, and built his wealth in commercial real estate. So he moved me to California and I helped grow his coaching company, teaching others how to build their commercial portfolios as well. And he let me largely run the business and make the hiring decisions, the investment decisions. I was involved in every component from his socials and directing that to the marketing front, to building the fulfillment team and just everything across the board and did that for two years. His socials ended up growing past 6 million plus collectively by the time I left. And then my business partner, Spencer Murphy, he started working with Iman Godsey internally in June of 2022. And to Iman's credit, this was right after Andrew Tate had blown up and just taken over social media at the time. And so Iman told Spencer, he's like, I want to build the Andrew Tate strategy in house. Spencer had a lot of prior experience working with someone else named Jason capital and over four years led his socials. They grew from 30,000 followers to 6 million plus collective followers as well. So he took a lot of those systems and training and experience and led building the entire redistribution sub account network for Iman. They launched it in July of 2022 and in the first four months they generated 449 million views. In the first year, his YouTube channel went from 340,000 subscribers to 3.5 million subscribers. I haven't looked in a little bit, but I Think he's like past 7 million subs on just his main channel today, not including across the socials. I believe he's more on like 15 million plus collective followers and the sub account network largely spurred that. So he was doing that internally with Iman and he was staying at my house at the time, telling me what they were doing. I couldn't believe it. I was in a transition period and I was like, I couldn't stop thinking about it. So brainstorm further. And we came up with the offer to, hey, let's offer this to other top personal brands. And initially it was we'll guarantee a hundred million views in 90 days and do it. CPM based. CPMs stand for cost per 1000 views. And so fully performance based pricing. And that's how we got started. And then fast forward a little over three years later and here we are today.
- [06:10]
Luis Diaz
That's sick. That is, that's cool. I, I've heard that story. You've got a really cool post and we'll, we'll, we'll put it up here on the screen. It kind of goes through that whole story of you and you're like going into real estate and like getting out of that because it was a bad time and then meeting back up with your partner. The. So the sub account strategy, for those who don't know, and personally I don't know too much about it at all.
- [06:31]
Logan Forsyth
Mm.
- [06:31]
Luis Diaz
Is that something that still works today? Is that something that just worked then? Was that something you guys use actively? If you could just give a high level overview of what it is and then like, yeah, I guess for most people listening is like, does it actually work in 2026?
- [06:45]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. The answer is absolutely. With some asterisks. Right. And so what does that look like? Well, first sub accounts are additional accounts that you create that are branded to you on each platform. So instead of just having one Instagram account, one Facebook, one YouTube channel, one TikTok, you can go and create multiple additional accounts still sub branded to you to be able to post much more volume of content. That's the value of it. Right. Because we have tested posting volume anywhere from 1 post per day up to 12 posts per day per account across all platforms and then everything in between. And we have, there's not a hard rule, but based on our data across more than 20,000 posts, we saw best results posting two times per day per account generally.
- [07:34]
Luis Diaz
Right.
- [07:35]
Logan Forsyth
And so we call it visibility ceilings to where you're, you're going to get some Level of diminishing returns. Generally if you're posting 10 times per day on one account versus spreading that out and posting two times a day across five accounts. Right. So that's why we like to scale sub accounts to be able to test and do a lot more volume. The accounts can still the naming formats. I like to get more creative than the basics. We all know Tony Robbins, I like to use him as an example. So you know Tony Robbins clips, Tony Robbins reels best of Tony Robbins, Tony Robbins talks like those are the basics. But you can get more creative of keywords that are more on brand with you as well. And that's generally what they look like. And also what sub accounts allow you to do is experiment and test a lot more with things that people generally don't want to post on their main account, at least to start. And they want to prove concepts on sub accounts first and then find based on the data. Okay, this performed really well. It brought in new followers, new engagement, good reach on the views, people DM'd and showed interest. Those are all important metrics we like to look at. And then okay, if we're seeing that signal there, let's cross over, let's do more of this on your main and so does it work today? Absolutely. The brands that it works the best for a lot of people refer to this as clipping as well. The brands that it works the best for when you're doing the highest level of scale and volume to where we come in and we build an entire internal media team, essentially we'll staff them with four to eight editors of just one brand or client, multiple social media managers, a team leader to lead the charge and captain the ship. And the people and the brands who are best fit for that are one generally they're doing like minimum 5 million per year or more in revenue. The reason being is because that shows they have a proven offer and proven business, proven ways to monetize because it's not a low cost, low investment vehicle. In order to get big reach and views we're talking like tens of millions if not a hundred million plus views per month. That's not a low cost. And in order to capitalize and make sure that you are going to see an ROI from that, you need to have dialed in systems and a dial in offer in business. So that's going to be one. Secondly is proof of concept is something that we really like to see. And so if you have proven virality already, a larger content database that's already out there, then we're very close to having 100% success rate when there's already proof of virality to where we can go in repurpose. We call it like remixing winning clips. And there's a lot of different angles that we could take if we have this huge content database versus if someone's starting newer content. And so if we're doing things at top scale, those are the most two important factors that we want to see. However, we still help a lot of brands who are just getting started with content on the short form side. And we do like to create sub accounts at a smaller level for them to split test hooks on their content.
- [10:40]
Luis Diaz
Just the intro, just the verbal hook or like visual and, and verbal hook.
- [10:46]
Logan Forsyth
So the, the hook for anyone listening that's not familiar, that's generally just the start of the content. Right. It can, the, the length of the hook can vary depending on long form versus short form. Short form videos generally the first 3, 5 seconds. And then to your point, there's a verbal hook of what's being said, but also a visual hook of what's actually showing on the edit. Maybe that's the text headline, maybe that's what's actually happening in the content itself. And so the hook alone can be the difference of a video getting millions of views or hundreds of views, where the rest of the video is exactly the same and you just have a different hook that you're testing. And so the way that we like to split test is by creating at least one, if not two additional sub accounts per platform to split test two to three hooks on every video that we put out. That also creates a 2-3x multiple of volume and leverage with almost zero additional filming time. So this is how we can go from someone just getting started with content. We're split testing, let's say three hooks per video. And if they're filming three core videos a day, it's 90 videos a month. For short form, you're at 1,350 posts per month. Or if you're doing two videos a day, 60 videos a month, you're still at 900 posts a month. If you're split testing three hooks for every video. So you're doing still like when most people are scraping and doing like fifty to a hundred posts a month. Right, we're. And another important piece of that is with short form video, it works across every platform, therefore you should post it across every platform because if you don't, you're guaranteed to get less reach. And we want more reach to more people. Right. And so the the hardest part is getting the creative itself. But once you have it, post it on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Snapchat for some brands, acts like post it everywhere. Right. And that's also creating more of the multiple posts too. Instead of just focusing on, let's say Instagram as a platform, YouTube as a platform, where you go from one post today just posting it across all platforms. Let's say if you're doing Again, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn are the top five that we focus on. Now you have five posts today and then again if you split test three hooks and every one of those now you're at 15 posts a day, right. So you're getting much higher leverage. And every platform you're hitting audiences that you're not going to hit on the others. Also we've seen this happen. Like we reverse looked at the data in the company and on average since we started media scaling, we've had 1.1 viral videos per day. That's defined as a video getting a million plus views or more across the company. We never know what platform the viral video is going to hit on. Sometimes like an ultra viral video, it'll hit on multiple platforms, but a lot of the time it will just go viral on Instagram or just go viral on YouTube or et cetera. And then maybe it performs, sometimes it performs average or maybe a little bit above average on the others. But if we weren't posting across every platform, we would probably be at 2 billion views instead of 10 billion views today. Right. You just, you don't know where it's going to hit. So you need to post everywhere. A little bit of a long winded answer, but sub accounts absolutely still work. At the smaller level, we like to use them to split test hooks. At the higher level, we like to use them to staff a full media division, a lot of editors and do things at an extremely high level of scale. And what we with the starting level, our goal is to get a brand to have momentum, some consistency and usually getting to around generating, let's call it a million views per month. And then once you get to that marker and you're building up more of a content database, that's a good indicator to where you're ready to start scaling further. And you can combine that with, you know, some people call it clipping. We do more of an internal version of clipping to where it's still your internal team with your own staff of editors and social media managers. But when you combine, when you start to Add in the clipping component or more sub accounts. That's where we're consistently growing brands to ten to a hundred million plus views per month is the path of progress that we see.
- [15:01]
Luis Diaz
I've got so many questions for you dude, but let's stick with. I want to stick with two because two kind of, I think they're revolving around in my head as we're talking here. Number one is are there prerequisites to doing this? Like don't start creating sub accounts and posting more content if you don't have X, Y or Z in place. I think we talked about the offer is one like you need to have a solid offer. Is there anything else you would say that's a prereq before somebody starts like implementing this and going like full in, full on into. Into content and media production?
- [15:39]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah, yeah. We specialize in working with businesses and business owners. And so having an offer to sell generally defines you as having some type of business and that makes monetizing much more effective. Because if you're just relying on brand deals and AdSense for content, I mean you're going to play a long term game and you're not going to have the capital and resources to build a team around this, which is truly what it takes. Like this is not. If you're trying to tackle this by yourself, man, it's tough because again this is, this takes a team. And so if you're trying to do it by yourself, you're really working five different roles from day one. And if all of your, if all you're doing is relying on AdSense and brand deals, you're not going to make enough money to grow the team for a long period of time, which causes almost everyone to burn out. Right. And that's why people don't have success versus the sooner that you can have an offer to be able to monetize and then reinvest into a team to really do this right at scale, that's going to create much more consistency in faster growth but also making sure that you as the business owner don't burn out because you can't tackle everything yourself. So that's a really important prerequisite. Next is one thing is we, we talk about doing things at scale. We, we talk about higher levels of volume. But again that takes a team and if you're not there yet, don't let that be the limiting belief that holds you back from starting. Like posting one time per week on one platform is better than posting nothing.
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Luis Diaz
Right?
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Logan Forsyth
So like do something even it's Right now people are, they're seeing a lot of success filming selfie videos on their phone in their car. So like go in your car, take out your phone, film some videos. Even if you do 10 in one bash filming session, which doesn't take a lot of time, now you have 10 videos for the month. If it's just you, like pick one platform that you use the most, whether that's Instagram or YouTube or whatever, post it on there and then use a third party scheduling tool like metrical.com or later.com and schedule out the post on the other platforms. You're done for the month. Are you doing a thousand posts a month? No, but you're starting and that's still putting you ahead of 95% of people out there. So like don't let these limiting beliefs of oh, I have to post 500 times, a thousand times a month hold you back from getting started if you're not there yet. And if you are there, then you should have a team around this. To do this at truly the right level of scale, you need a great editor and you need a social media manager who's going to post all the content for you, manage the socials, write the captions, like monitor the comments, engage with others, look and check your DMs and inbox for opportunities. This is not a one person job.
- [18:35]
Luis Diaz
No, no, all of that stuff takes time, diligence, a lot of time. Yeah. And you gotta be the creative I think for business owners like most business owners here are, are, are usually the, the talent so to speak in their business and they have usually one or two other people helping them. I so on your Instagram grid I've seen a ton of different like posts from you recently where you're talking about like you're rating things whether it's like music or you know, or where to post and things like that. And you did one really good one around hooks. Do you have a go a couple of go to hooks that you recommend for people if like hey I made one video. If I was to test create some other alternate hooks, do you have any go tos that you like that you've seen perform, you know, generally better than others?
- [19:21]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah, this always evolving and changing and so versus just like giving some exact hooks, I'd rather teach you how to fish in a sense one is more so looking at the psychology behind the hooks, negative base hooks crush. And so that's where you're telling people stop doing this, don't do this warning danger like making, don't make this Mistake that crushes and, and you can apply that in any industry across the board. Other hook types are like the best advice that you've ever received. People want to, it implies that they're getting some level of insider information or shortcutting success. It's like, oh, you are someone who's accomplished some level of results and this the best advice that you've ever received. Like, I need to lean in and listen in. You know Jay Shetty, one of the biggest podcasts, that's a question that he asked on most of his episodes at least, and he's had clips from him asking that question go ultra viral over and over and over and over from all of his different guests. But a big part is what we do for our clients and what you should do. If you're serious about growing your brand on social media, which if you like money and you like impact and you want better quality leads who pay you more and close a higher rates and stay for longer and refer more people, then you should create organic content, right? Because if you don't, you're going to get left behind and you're, you're just gonna, you're handicapped. Like, you're, you're trying to run a marathon with one leg. So you have to get on social media. Um, and with that said, out of all the platforms, the Instagram search bar is so good, it's killer. Now it sucks a year and a half ago, now it's so good. So you can go to Instagram search, it's free, we all have it. And then start searching keywords. And what it does is it ranks and shows you the most viral content on the platform for those keywords. And so when you study that, carve out three hours in your calendar, grab a cup of coffee, pull up a Google sheet or Excel sheet, and then start searching keywords on Instagram. Not only in your industry, which is what everybody does, everyone's like, oh, I'm looking at my competitors, what are they doing? That's what I'm doing. But look at other industries, because the arbitrage is finding winning content and formats and hooks in other industries that are not being applied in yours, and then getting creative of how can you bring that over into your space to where you get first mover advantage and you stand apart, you don't look like everyone else, right? Like that's the arbitrage. So look at other industries as well. And then just like scroll through of the top viral content and you're going to start to pick up on a lot of patterns you're going to see repeated hooks that are coming up again and again and you're going to receive repeated formats that come up again and again and get creative of applying those for your brand. So I, I could you know, tell you multiple right now, but are they going to work in, in three months from now? I'm not sure. But is what I just told you going to work for now and forever? Absolutely. Like that's, that's the, the framework and the principle behind truly being successful and growing on socials.
- [22:30]
Luis Diaz
Yeah, I, I love so, so those are great frames. Right. Like so the negative, negative angles which I've heard you talk about and then definitely the best advice I've ever heard. What one of the thing we get with clients a lot is like trying to, is it's, it's really hard to pick good clips out of a long form conversation if there's no intentionality behind it. So I mean have a question for you is have you had clients do this really well? I think the questions you just teed up with the frame you just teed up are really good ways to ask questions that will make it make it easy for your editors to find good, good short form clips. But is there anything else in that regard of like let's just say you've got clients who do primarily maybe long form and they want to make good short form clips out of it. Is there any advice or tips or things you shouldn't do to make it possible? Because I have had varying results with trying to take long form stuff and turn it into really good quote unquote viral short form stuff.
- [23:26]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah, yeah. It's great that you specialize in helping other businesses launch and scale podcast. And why I say it's great is because the playbook that so many people are running very successfully four or five years ago was hey, my content strategy is I create long form content for YouTube and then that just. And then I have a team, they clip it up and it's short, short form across the platforms and it works and I'm crushing and everyone's happy. That doesn't really work anymore nearly to the level that it used to for talking head content specifically. A lot of people and business owners and people who are more information educational based creators, they were doing talking head YouTube stuff and then having it clipped across socials. Unless you're a really big creator today, we just don't see that breaking through because short form is now so much more competitive, so much more saturated, so many more people are doing it. And most short form Content is filmed and created specifically for short form. And so if you're taking like these talking head clips, we just don't see a breakthrough like it used to. However, the long form formats that we still see crush repurposes short form are podcasts. That's just one format that, that it does still work. Talk shows, you know, TV shows and then live streams, slash vlogs, which vlogs are mostly live streams today. Like those are the top three long form formats where we still see clips coming from them work really, really well on the short form side. Um, so it's great that your community is doing podcasts. I will say in person is far superior to virtual podcasts for short form clips and just for building video presence in general. Yes, obviously it's a lot more coordination and details and there's more that goes into that. It's a heavier lift, but you know, it's, it's something worth considering that plays a huge, huge role. And unless you're for tech billionaires like the all in podcast has been doing this for a long time or you're my first million who's also been creating their podcast for over a year, virtual does not break through the same way. And it would easily be argued that if those podcasts were done in person, they'd be substantially greater in terms of the reach and the growth that they're seeing. So that's going to play a role. And then to answer your question on how to curate clips from the content, one thing that I'm launching my own podcast right now. We have a few episodes that have been banked and recorded and then more being scheduled through the year. It's all in person and it's going to be like my goal is for it to be extremely cinematic, like some of the highest tier quality of content that all of the guests who are coming on the show have done because it's its own separate brand is called Insider Sessions and it's starting since its own separate brand. We're starting the socials from new. And so how I'm able to get really big name guests on is one, we have a great network at this point. But secondly, everyone wants great quality content. And so if, if you're someone out there who doesn't have a huge network yet, you still be shocked at the level of caliber of guest that you can get in terms of their credentials, their following size. Whatever the case, just the fact if you're offering them really high tier, high scale production, great quality content, which is what everyone wants and everyone enjoys Podcasts because they're, you know, conversational, they're way easier versus being in a room and coming up with scripts or outlines and talking to a camera directly. And part of what I'm doing in the insider sessions podcast is if the guest has a presence already. I'm having a segment in the second half where my team is going and looking at their socials and finding all their most viral clips. And then I'm taking the questions and the hooks from those clips and I'm asking them to the guests. And so we're essentially recreating their most viral content in a different format with a different setting. And if your guest doesn't have a lot of viral clips or a bigger online presence, you can go and find someone or find multiple brands still in the same industry or vertical as them and go look at, okay, what are their most viral stuff and what were the questions behind it and still ask those questions to your guests in your podcast to try and extract, you know, good quality clips from it.
- [27:54]
Luis Diaz
I like it. I like this is a genius idea. So you're in essence, your team's going behind the scenes like you're saying, finding their best clips and then you're just asking them that as well. I love, I love that. So, so genius. And to your point about like the fact that if you, even if you have a podcast that's starting from zero, but the content, the production quality is so high. Like I literally found a podcast that does interviews in like this car garage with all these super nice cars and the podcast is like a brand new show but the production quality is so high and the, the level of production and editing in the scene, like the, the background, they have all these like bugattis and stuff in the background is so cool. I watched it, right. I didn't even know who the guest was or who the host was. I didn't care. Yeah, it makes, it makes total sense and it pulls in more people because they want that cool, they want that cool backdrop. They want to have to be featured in like in a cool show like that. Even though this show's brand new.
- [28:49]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah, podcast is, is honestly they're the ultimate cheat code today. But it's like if, if you can coordinate and do it in person with really cinematic quality, that's what's going to set you apart. Because now recently, this year 2026, YouTube released to where you can do collaborator posts on long form videos as well. And so if you have really cinematic top tier quality, again, you'll be surprised even if you're starting from scratch with the podcast, big name guests are more than happy to come on your show, especially locally. And then a lot of, you know, people with bigger followings are traveling a lot as well and so you can still reach out to them and maybe they'll be in your area. If you live in more of a metroplex, you know, three months, six months down the road, but start just getting it in the calendar, you'll be shocked because again, people want really good quality content. And if you have a setup to where the production is cinematic, it looks great. And it's different from every other podcast out there because most studios, it's too saturated at this point of the podcast clip with the plant in the corner and the lights and the word panels. Like every studio ever. Yeah, well, not your, but I'm talking about like the in person studios because there are podcast studios in every city that they just all look the same. So like differentiate yourself from that and find some good studios in your area. Some of these studios, they cost, you know, 200, 300 bucks an hour to, to rent out and they, a lot of them even have the equipment for you.
- [30:19]
Luis Diaz
Right.
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Logan Forsyth
And so like invest to bring on these really high caliber people and then if the quality of the content is great, they're going to happily do a collaborator post on their channel as well. And if they have a larger following on their channel, that's going to really jumpstart your channel. And then all it takes is one big guest that then you, you mention in your outreach to other big guests. They're like, oh, this person came on the show, I'll come on the show. And then everything snowballs from there. So it is a cheat code. But a lot of people talk about like as content and you know, YouTube and podcasts get more competitive, like people are going more and more the route of TV and more mainstream production, if you will, in the sense of up leveling the quality. Up leveling. The studios that are being shot in a lot of great podcasts now are coming up with segments in the podcast. Just like TV shows, they have segments. Right. But it's like there's so much TV that business has been around for a long time and they've made just, you know, kajillions dollars of money. They know what they're doing. And so there's a lot that we could study and learn from them in the creator side to apply to our content, especially in podcasts as well. All those things considered, it's, it's a huge edge.
- [31:37]
Luis Diaz
Yeah. One of my favorite you bring up segments, and I think this is so interesting. One of my favorite segments I've seen somebody do on a podcast was a finance show. They drew a pie chart, and basically they said to their guests, tell me where your revenue comes from, like, how much money you make. So you make like $10 million a year. Draw on the pie chart. Okay, 4 million comes from my investments. 3 million comes from passive stuff, blah, blah, blah. And it was such an interesting segment. So I think, like, what you're saying around engineering segments into podcasts, you have to be intentional about this. And I think this is kind of where a lot of business owners, maybe they. They don't want to take the time to be intentional, or they want to rush it, or they just want to make it easier. And that's kind of how they end up saying, sounding like everybody else. But creating segments that are, you know, brand centric or. Or aligned with what you speak to and what your expertise is makes a lot of sense. And it also creates a really easy clippable moment for social media for a short form as well.
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Logan Forsyth
Yeah.
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Luis Diaz
So it's.
- [32:37]
Logan Forsyth
It's fun for the guests too. Like Bruce shows Stephen Bartlett, Diary CEO, he has the same questions that he asks his guest at the end of every interview he does. I believe one of them is, I haven't watched the show in a while. I believe one is. He asks each guest to ask a question for the next guest, and then there's ones leading up to it. You know, Lewis Howes has been in the podcasting around for ever, and he has the same questions that he ask at the end of each shows. My wife loves this podcast called the Toast. A lot of the ladies, they love the show. It, you know, kind of drives me crazy, but it. It crushes. And I. I think it's just one of the leading shows more so about, like, pop culture, what's going on in that realm. And they have multiple segments throughout the show. They do daily podcast, and also what makes them able to do it daily is they have segments of one, like the top five things happening in pop culture. And they have a segment called like Dear Toasters to where they have the community ask them questions, and they do like a Q and A answering questions from the community. They have another segment for this, and it makes the show, like, very engaging. And the repeat viewers and listeners to the show as well, it helps with retention because they want to hear each segment and as well, especially if the segments at the end of the show are in the second half are really engaging.
- [34:02]
Luis Diaz
Right.
- [34:03]
Logan Forsyth
And so it creates more consistency and retention too.
- [34:05]
Luis Diaz
Yeah. Yeah. Building a show format is something I think is a bit lost. And it's, it's could be in, in like what podcasting used to be was just like people just jumping on and just doing, just talking. Right. There's a lot more like, just like short form. It's gotten a lot more competitive. There's a lot more people who just do short form and they crush it. And like you're going to lose if you're just posting your podcast clips up there with no intentionality. Same thing with long form. There's people who do this kind of full time and they're really good at it. You're not going to get by with just without any prep. Logan. I want to dive into just things. So I want to go back to social media in a minute because I think you're a wealth of knowledge in, in specifically like growing short form. What are things that you see that are going to set you back that like if you do X, Y or Z, it's going to set you back or just examples from, you know, previous clients or your experiences. Specifically when we're talking like growing a short form Instagram account. And we both work with a lot of business owners, so we'll keep it in the realm of like, this is. If you're a business owner, this is probably going to set you back if you do this.
- [35:16]
Grainger Commercial Voiceover
Yeah.
- [35:16]
Logan Forsyth
I have an answer I love for you. The number one failure point that sets business owners back when they're at the size where they build a team around their socials is demanding an ROI from the content. Here's why. Oh, yeah, because when they do that. So we talked to so many business owners, they're like, yeah, my organic content, I want it to be a new marketing channel. I want more leads. Like I, I want to see consistent leads and sales coming in from it. It's like, that's the wrong approach. Because brand equity. No, like. And trust does not show up in a UTM parameter. And the value of organic content is that it makes every dollar you spend on marketing more profitable and more scalable in all other areas. It's the amplifier. It's not the lead generation channel. It's the amplifier for all other marketing efforts. So what do I mean by that? If you run ads, one, you cannot profitably scale ads today if you don't have good organic content to back it up because your socials are the landing page from the ads. A lot of people see their ads. The first thing they do, they Click on your profile and if your organic content doesn't back up, the ad doesn't provide value and X, Y and Z, they're going to jump, they're never going to engage. And you can't measure the level of traffic that's happening to, but it's significant. Sometimes that can be like 40% of the traffic from your ads. And if, if you're just losing 40% because of that reason al, you're never going to be profitable. That's one secondly is people start to overly promote and sell in the organic content. That lowers trust, it lowers engagement. It just, it overall kills the momentum of the account. If you're trying to sell, sell, sell, pitch, pitch, pitch. Because people don't like that, right? And so when they start to demand an ROI from the content itself, it leads to failure in that point. Thirdly is they measure the value of it wrong because they only want to look at, okay, I'm looking at the UTM parameters, the high res parameters in the link of my Instagram account and my YouTube account and I'm not seeing the leads and sales that I want from this. I'm canceling it. It's like dude, it's again, that's a fraction of the value that organic content provides to your brand. There's a reason that all the largest companies in the world, Fortune 1000 companies, spend 80% plus of their marketing dollars on brand advertising because they know the value of again the KLT know like and trust factor that's built largely through organic content. Um, third, organic content today is more like ads than it has been ever before. What I mean by that is short form video, specifically why we specialize in it is out of every content type is pushed the most to non followers. It's also the most scalable where you can do the most volume and it has a lower barrier to entry. And so I love short form content for those reasons. Because if you go to any platform, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram and you click the insights of your short form content, it'll show you the total reach and it shows you non followers to followers or for you page percentage versus following percentage. And most of the time 50% plus the reach is going to non followers that are targeted based on your interests and your demographics. Same thing as ads, right? Every social platform there's some of the biggest companies in the world, they make almost all their revenue from advertising. They have data set Meta has over 54 million square feet of data centers. Like they have so much data, it's stupid. They know us better than we know ourselves. And they use that data for not only targeting ads, but also targeting organic content. And so naturally, when you're speaking to your ideal customer as a business and your content is therefore going to get served to the right people, that's just how the algorithms work today. And so, yes, there's going to be a portion of people, even if you're not pitching and promoting in your content, who will buy from you because of the trust they build up. But where you drive the conversions is by retargeting all your organic reach with ads. You can set up custom campaigns, retarget with ads it crushes. Another note is top performing organic content many times turns into top performing ads. And so even if the whole video doesn't relate, you can take a winning hook from your organic video and stitch that on the front end of the ad. And now your hook rate and your retention rate is much better. And then just splices over the ad it crushes. And there's carnivores. I won't say his name. They spend over 600,000 per month in ad spend. I was talking to them recently. They have one ad that's been running for almost two years. They spent millions of dollars just in this one ad. It's made them over $13 million. It's one ad creative, because scaling ads is much less about who you're targeting and much more about the creative itself. And that's the value that one winning creative can produce for your brand. It can make you tens of millions of dollars from one creative. And so you find more winning creative from organic content where it's tested and proven first. But this is across the board. We talk to business owners like, I don't run ads like I do outbound. It's like, okay, great, your outbound's gonna perform better because people do their due diligence on you before they ever respond to your email or before they move Forward with your LinkedIn message. Or they say, hey, I go to trade shows and conferences. It's like, okay, if Alex Ramosi walks into a business conference, is he the most influential person in that room? Probably. So why is that? Because we've all seen and watched content, right? And so what valuable to your business? If you walked into that conference and everyone in there is in your content, and you walk in with more influence and more trust, like, do you think that you would make more money? Absolutely. And so talk to the target audience, the people who are going to those trade shows and conferences. But no matter what you do, every business is growing in some way.
- [41:00]
Luis Diaz
Right.
- [41:01]
Logan Forsyth
And content is the amplifier of that growth. And so they need to also measure how much more is my marketing methods improving in, in correlation with organic content going up versus only wanting to measure the ROI and the results from the organic content itself. Because they don't your results, they want fast enough and then they stop, they kill the program, they cut the team, they stop putting in the effort when the reality is like it's required today to truly grow in business. And as they keep doing it over the course of three, four, five years, it becomes the ultimate competitive edge.
- [41:33]
Luis Diaz
I think that the biggest thing I notice about content is how it amplifies who you, who you. Or how fast you can get around a room and get known by people in an event that is the such a, like, I'm glad you mentioned it because it's such a not talked about thing. But like every time, you know, I'll go to an event, I come back thinking like, I need to create more content. Like, I need to do more short form, I need to do more long form, I need to get, do my interviews. Because when I get into rooms where people have seen the content, it's so much easier to connect people. You get connections, you can get on stage. Like you get so much more inbound and it just amp, like you said, it amplifies everything. Same thing with ads. I mean, people like when I see your ads, like I clicked on your stuff and I went to your site, I'm like, okay, he knows what he's talking about. It's. It's such a really hard to track. Like you said, it doesn't come up in the UTM parameters that they now trust you or that they now like you, that they now think are thinking about doing business with you two, three months down the road. So it just makes a lot of sense.
- [42:33]
Logan Forsyth
It's huge. Like I, I'm doing better. Sometimes I'm like, I just go in recluse mode. I don't like to go to the events and travel and whatnot. But then other times, like, okay, I'll go to more events and et cetera. And it's getting to the point to where every event that I'm going to in the space now I have a portion and it's, it's growing of number of people. It's like, hey, I've seen your content everywhere, et cetera. And, and it turns into incredible conversations. We've gotten multiple clients from that and, or speaking opportunities, podcast opportunities, or they're like, hey, I know someone Who's a great fit for this. More referrals come from it. Like, we have absolutely grown our business to a significant degree because of that factor of what you're talking about. And so, and those are all things that people don't measure. And therefore, again, you're, if you're only looking at the UTM parameters, the high parameters of your social links to value organic content, you're looking at 10, 20% of the value. Like, there's so much more value it brings to the table.
- [43:33]
Luis Diaz
Yeah, Logan, last question before wrapping up. If we have a business owner listening to this today that has under 10,000 followers on Instagram, and I don't even know if followers is a relevant metric anymore because the algorithm shows you to everybody depending on your content. But if they're at that stage, what's one thing they can do today that can help them move the needle towards building a personal brand that they, we, that they all, we all know in
- [43:58]
Logan Forsyth
our minds that we want more consistency. That's really what it comes down to. If you have the ability to grow the team, like building a team around this as soon as possible is one of the most important things that you can do. Because you will burn out if you're trying to tackle it yourself, or you're just, you're barely going to scratch the surface if you're trying to tackle it yourself. And so more consistency is everything because the people who went on socials, quality has to come first, but quantity creates quality. What I mean by that is because one, there, there are a portion of people on social media who are like, really disciplined and they're like, dude, I've posted a thousand times. Like, I've been posting every day for two years. And their posts don't go anywhere. And it's, they're not like, they're not often they're just posting the post and they don't look at the data and optimize and study what's working and consistently make iterations and improvements. And so when you're just like, when you're posting garbage everywhere, you're just littering online, right? Like, we don't want to do that. But if you're posting a lot of volume and you're looking at the data, you're paying attention to the views, the saves, the shares, the DMs that you're getting. A really important metric that I like to focus on is a view to follow ratio as well, because that shows quality and intent of that content. And sometimes you get videos with lower views that have higher Follows. And that's still a good signal. It's like, hey, let's do more of that. You want to focus on your content that performs better. Look at the hook, pay attention to the format. What did you talk about? And do more of that. I'll leave with an example. There is a video that just went semi viral on my Instagram account. It's at like 200,000 something views and it is very quickly reacting to a 30 million view video and then breaking down. Why, why it went viral. And so a beginner approach would be, oh, that was a reaction video. Like, let's do more of that. But the advanced approach that you want to take is, okay, this is a reaction video, but it started with it's, it's a unique, it's a unique hook. It's not just another talking head video. And it also had 30 million plus views. So it's an ultra viral video. It's spliced on for the first three seconds and then it very quickly blips to show me. We have what we call credential badges that we show for all of our clients. So it's like, you know, 9 billion views. Content expert, we just hit 10 billion now. And it points the arrow to me. And then it only shows for about three seconds. And then it goes to me saying, this video got 30 million views because of this, this principle of a shock factor hook. And then I gave three examples. I'm like, Cherokee pottery does this. They consistently go viral. And then you could do this for a restaurant in this way. You could do this for a peptide brand in this way. And so that's what we're now, we're doing a lot more videos following that framework. It's not just, hey, let's do more reaction videos, but I'm telling our script writers, let's do more reaction videos where we find the ultra viral video and then we talk about the one unique principle that made it work. And then we give one real world example and two more other examples of how other businesses could apply this. Like, that's the framework of the video that caused it to work. Not just, this is a reaction content. Right? And so you gotta study, you gotta optimize and improve from there. But if you're under 10,000 followers, like, is it a lot of work? Yeah, guess what? That's a benefit to you. Because most people don't want to do a lot of work. And so if you're willing to do the work, you're going to stand out and it's going to be A competitive edge. And that's why I keep saying, like, it's important to build a team around this, but you just, you have to be more consistent, you have to be dedicated to it and then actually look at the data and analyze it to the degree of the example I just gave you. And that's going to allow you to perform better because if you just post and post and post and you're not like truly studying it like a student, then you're. You can end up wasting a lot of time.
- [47:50]
Luis Diaz
Yeah, yeah. It's not just volume. It's volume and looking and making iterations. Dude, super valuable stuff. I wish we had a bit more time because I had more questions, but all good. For people who want to know more about what you guys do at Media Scaling and want to get in contact with you, what's the best way to. We'll have links at the bottom of the video, but best way for them to connect with you.
- [48:12]
Logan Forsyth
Yeah. This is awesome, Luis. We're working on something I'm really excited about to where we're offering free, like very comprehensive, very value based audits of the socials for brands and businesses. So we're going to go through a comprehensive report and then it's going to be extremely value driven. We're going to tell you like, hey, do this different. These are content types that would work really well. We'll give you the playbook. And so in three or four weeks that's going to be completed. You can go check that out@audit.mediascaling.com um, and then I'm at Logan Forsyth across the board on socials as well.
- [48:49]
Luis Diaz
Great, dude, thank you so much for coming on. Really excited to share this with the growth triggers community. So just appreciate your time.
- [48:57]
Logan Forsyth
Likewise. Man, this is great.
- [49:00]
Luis Diaz
Hey, just so you know, a couple things. Number one, this is the end of the episode. Number two, I have a completely free, no strings attached, no email, opt in required gift for you. And it's called the Podcast Scaling Framework. Now this essentially is a Google Doc that lays out the long process we take clients through from ideation to monetizing. It's going to take you through things like the seven podcast formats that you should test or at Beast consider the five different monetization systems we use for our clients and how to execute them, all the KPIs, all the different types of podcasts you can see set up based on your business, your size, your goals, et cetera. It's a very comprehensive document. Again, I teach my team on this. We also walk through it with our private health and wellness expert clients. We walk them through this and we work with them on this stuff every single month. So it's a living document. You may see me in there sometimes changing things or tweaking things because again, it's a framework that we're constantly updating. But check it out. It's completely free. Again, no email opt in required, which may change in the future. I. I don't know. So just get it now while it's free. But check that out. Use it. Let me know what you think and if we can help in any other way. If you want step by step, more handheld, more of a, you know, a white glove service, then reach out to us@top10podcast.com and would love to chat. Thanks and talk soon.
- [50:25]
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