GTM Live Podcast Summary
Episode: How to Build Mindshare in the New SEO Era (With Sam Dunning)
Release Date: July 23, 2025

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of GTM Live, hosts Carolyn Dilks and Trevor Gibson delve deep into the evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO) with renowned SEO expert and founder of Breaking B2B, Sam Dunning. As AI redefines how businesses approach their go-to-market (GTM) strategies, Sam provides actionable insights on building mindshare, optimizing SEO for current trends, and ensuring sustainable long-term growth for B2B SaaS companies.

1. The Evolution of SEO in the AI Era

Sam Dunning kicks off the conversation by addressing the seismic shifts in the SEO landscape driven by Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Large Language Models (LLMs) like ChatGPT. He dispels the myth that "SEO's dead" but acknowledges that "SEO is changing" due to innovations such as Google's AI mode and the rise of AI-powered search tools.

Notable Quote:
"SEO's dead, cooling's dead. Code email's dead, paid media is dead, everything's dead."
— Sam Dunning [03:03] (Note: This was a humorous exaggeration to highlight the significant changes in SEO.)

Sam emphasizes that while traditional SEO tactics are evolving, the foundational role of SEO in driving pipeline remains intact. The introduction of AI has led to higher impressions but lower click-through rates, necessitating a shift towards building brand mindshare.

2. The Business Case for SEO in 2025 and Beyond

Addressing the ROI of SEO, Sam explains that SEO remains a viable channel for driving pipeline, especially for established categories where demand exists. However, he cautions that SEO isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. For startups or companies in new categories "there's no demand collect on a channel like Google LLMs or AI search because people aren't aware that your solution actually exists," making SEO less effective without substantial investment in demand generation.

3. Building Mindshare in a Changing SEO Landscape

The concept of mindshare becomes pivotal as traditional SEO metrics like clicks become harder to track. Sam outlines strategies to build mindshare:

• Full-Funnel SEO: Targeting specific queries during the buying window.
• Leveraging Listicles: Getting featured in top software lists to increase visibility in LLMs.
• Content Optimization: Creating content that aligns with detailed, customer-centric search queries.

Notable Quote:
"It's about jobs to be done. What we call kind of detailed, crisp and specific how to searches can work when they're very relatable to customer research."
— Sam Dunning [16:53]

4. The Importance of Customer Research and Messaging

Both hosts emphasize that customer-centric messaging is more critical than ever. Sam points out that many companies falter because they "haven't done the customer research phase," leading to ineffective messaging that doesn't resonate with the target audience. Understanding the Jobs to Be Done (JTBD), customer pain points, and motivations is essential for crafting content that not only ranks well but also drives conversions.

5. Measuring SEO Effectiveness in the Age of AI

With the advent of AI-driven search results, traditional SEO metrics require reevaluation. Sam discusses the "great decoupling" where impressions increase while clicks decrease due to AI overviews and snippets providing answers directly on the search page. He recommends:

• Tracking Both Leading and Lagging Indicators: Such as keyword rankings, session times, and conversion rates.
• Enhanced Data Collection Processes: Including asking customers directly about their discovery journey during sales calls.
• Integrating Manual Data Points: To compensate for the lack of data from AI tools.

Notable Quote:
"Measurement's getting harder and harder, not just for SEO but for most channels."
— Sam Dunning [17:24]

6. Effective Content Strategies for SEO Success

Sam outlines a comprehensive content creation strategy tailored for the modern SEO landscape:

1. Money Keywords Matrix: Categorize keywords into four columns—category terms, industries, competitors, and customer jobs to be done.
2. Long-Tail Search Terms: Focus on specific, high-intent queries relevant to your target audience.
3. Content Optimization: Analyze top-ranking content and build superior pages that address real customer needs.
4. Product-Led Content: Integrate product showcases, customer testimonials, and clear calls-to-action within content.
5. Utilizing External Platforms: Engage with Reddit, Quora, and niche podcasts to increase brand mentions and backlinks.

Notable Quote:
"Make sure your page really resonates with what dream clients care about. So for example, product listicles just rank well for most stuff like best X softwares of 2025."
— Sam Dunning [28:30]

7. Being Product-Focused vs. Thought Leadership

The discussion shifts to balancing thought leadership with product-centric content. Sam argues that while thought leadership builds credibility, product-focused content is crucial for demonstrating value and driving conversions. He cites examples like HRFS and Brave SEO where product-led content effectively bridges the gap between attracting visitors and converting them into customers.

Notable Quote:
"Why are you investing in SEO program if you're not making your content a sales page?"
— Sam Dunning [31:19]

8. Actionable Steps for Crushing Competitors with Organic SEO

When tasked with outperforming competitors organically within 90 days, Sam recommends a structured approach:

1. Comprehensive Customer Research: Identify top customers, industries, and competitors.
2. Website Optimization: Develop dedicated pages for every use case and optimize them for high-intent keywords.
3. Content Refinement: Enhance existing content to align with customer needs and SEO best practices.
4. Off-Page Strategies: Secure mentions in external listicles, engage in podcast guesting, and build backlinks.
5. Active Participation in Communities: Contribute to Reddit and Quora to increase brand visibility.
6. Leverage Existing Press: Use past press mentions to build backlinks and brand authority.
7. Earned Media Efforts: Consistently reach out to niche podcasts and guest blogs to expand reach.
8. Develop Own Media Channels: Eventually establish proprietary platforms like YouTube or a dedicated podcast.

Notable Quote:
"Having a system to do that consistently each week, that's going to give you a decent uptick in Google search as well as LLMs."
— Sam Dunning [35:08]

9. SEO Ownership Within Organizations

Sam highlights that SEO responsibilities typically reside with roles such as Head of Demand Gen, Marketing Director, VP of Marketing, or even the founders in smaller startups. He underscores the importance of having dedicated leadership to drive SEO initiatives, especially when advocating for its integration into broader GTM strategies.

10. Future Predictions for SEO

Looking ahead, Sam makes several bold predictions for the SEO domain:

• Further Decline in Traditional Search Traffic: As AI becomes more integral to search interfaces, the need for direct clicks from search results will diminish.
• Rise of Mindshare and Brand Awareness: Businesses will need to focus more on being top-of-mind through varied content strategies.
• AI Integration as a Standard: Google's AI mode may become the default search interface within the next couple of years, fundamentally altering how SEO is practiced.

Notable Quote:
"We're moving into mindshare mode. We move into kind of building brand, building awareness around your category and getting more and more kind of direct traffic, branded traffic, and kind of understanding that's the new way of search."
— Sam Dunning [41:15]

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Sam Dunning's insights provide a roadmap for B2B SaaS companies navigating the transformed SEO landscape. The key takeaways include:

• Adaptability is Crucial: Embrace the changes brought by AI and adjust SEO strategies accordingly.
• Customer-Centric Approach: Deep understanding of the target audience's needs and behaviors is non-negotiable.
• Holistic Marketing Integration: SEO should be integrated with broader marketing and GTM strategies to maximize effectiveness.
• Emphasis on Mindshare: Building brand recognition and mindshare will become increasingly important as direct clicks from search diminish.
• Proactive Data Collection: Implement robust systems to capture and analyze customer journeys and touchpoints beyond traditional metrics.

As SEO continues to evolve, GTM Live and Sam Dunning emphasize that while the tactics may change, the foundational principles of understanding and serving the customer remain steadfast.

Connect with Sam Dunning

For more insights and actionable strategies on SEO and B2B marketing, connect with Sam Dunning:

• LinkedIn: Sam Dunning
• Podcast: Breaking B2B
• Website: breakingb2b.com