GTM Live Podcast Summary: Inside the GTM Black Hole: Why Marketing Can't Prove Impact

Release Date: April 22, 2025
Hosts: Carolyn Dilks & Trevor Gibson, Co-Founders of Passetto

Introduction

In the April 22, 2025 episode of GTM Live, hosts Carolyn Dilks and Trevor Gibson delve deep into the intricate dynamics between sales and marketing teams within B2B SaaS companies. Titled “Inside the GTM Black Hole: Why Marketing Can't Prove Impact,” the episode explores the challenges of tracking and proving marketing effectiveness in the go-to-market (GTM) process.

Defining the GTM Black Hole

Carolyn opens the discussion by identifying the "black hole of go-to-market," a critical phase where Business Development Representatives (BDRs) or Sales Development Representatives (SDRs) transition leads from qualification to opportunities. This stage often becomes contentious as sales and marketing compete for credit over deals.

[00:00] Carolyn: "We call it the black hole of go to markets. That messy, critical stage where your BDRs or SDRs are working leads to qualified before they become opportunities."

The hosts emphasize the importance of viewing this phase as a journey rather than a simple handoff, advocating for enhanced visibility to reduce friction between teams.

The Importance of Signals in GTM

Trevor builds on Carolyn's introduction by discussing the concept of signals—interactions and engagements that prospects have with a brand throughout their journey. He argues that understanding these signals is crucial for making informed GTM investments.

[00:33] Carolyn: "What are signals? Why do they matter? Why are we even talking about signals?"

Trevor adds that it's not just about identifying signals but also measuring their efficiency, i.e., the cost and value associated with each signal.

[03:01] Trevor: "It's not just about signals, it's about the efficiency of those signals as well. So it's not just what's happening but what did it cost you to get there and is that actually worth doing?"

Moving Beyond Traditional Attribution

The hosts critique traditional attribution models, which often focus solely on the last touchpoint before a deal is closed. Carolyn highlights the limitations of this approach, emphasizing that it fails to capture the full spectrum of interactions that drive a deal.

[04:55] Carolyn: "The flaw is with the way a multi touch or attribution is used currently... we're not able to look at all of those different interactions that somebody is having with your brand and tie it back to the business's financial performance or the unit economics."

Trevor shares his experiences with attribution tools like Bizible, pointing out the pitfalls of simplistic attribution that can lead to mistrust among leadership.

[08:41] Trevor: "There has to be a coordinated effort... It’s not about 'us versus them.' We're telling a different story at the prospect layer."

Tracking Prospecting Effectively

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the prospecting phase. The hosts argue that prospecting should be tracked as a transactional process with its own distinct data object, separate from leads or campaigns. This approach allows for a more granular understanding of the prospecting efforts and their outcomes.

[16:50] Carolyn: "When you have a prospect, it's being stamped with cold outbound... signals data will eventually tell you... all these other things that are happening throughout that process."

Trevor elaborates on the necessity of creating a separate prospecting object to accurately track interactions, stages, and reasons for prospecting.

[21:15] Trevor: "Prospecting needs its own object... tracking stages like accepted, working, connected, disqualified allows us to see the drop-off across the entire journey."

Data Architecture and CRM Best Practices

Trevor emphasizes the importance of robust data architecture in CRM systems to facilitate effective tracking of signals and prospecting data. He argues against overcomplicating the lead object in Salesforce, advocating for a contacts-only approach enhanced with a dedicated prospecting object.

[29:27] Trevor: "Salesforce campaigns don't address the full spectrum of why you're prospecting... the prospecting object should capture all reasons driving prospecting efforts."

Carolyn adds that establishing clear associations between contacts, accounts, and opportunities is foundational for accurate signal tracking.

[35:12] Carolyn: "Ensure that your contacts are associated with opportunities. That can be one of the best practices to get us to where we want to go."

Case Study Example

To illustrate their points, Carolyn shares a real-life scenario where a company attributed all closed deals to cold outbound efforts. Upon deeper analysis with signal data, it was revealed that 50% of these "cold" deals had prior interactions with marketing channels like event attendance or paid social campaigns, showcasing the intertwined roles of marketing and sales.

[24:16] Carolyn: "A quarter of a million was close one revenue coming from cold outbound, but half had attended an event and engaged with paid social campaigns."

Trevor reinforces this by explaining how integrating signals can refine lead scoring models, ensuring that marketing activities are appropriately valued in the sales process.

[40:44] Trevor: "If you know signals and want to tell a better story, overlay them with prospecting data to see why you're reaching out and what drives those interactions."

Audience Interaction and Questions

The episode features active engagement with the live audience, addressing questions that highlight common challenges and advanced topics:

1. Tighter Alignment Between Finance and GTM Teams

   [41:30] Trevor: "How tighter alignment between finance and GTM teams can transform relationships with target customers will be addressed in future episodes."

2. Impact of AI and Dark Funnels A listener points out that AI interactions (e.g., ChatGPT) don't send signals to intent engines, making the dark funnel even more opaque.

   [44:04] C: "The dark funnel is getting darker." [44:27] Trevor: "We'll talk about how to handle incomplete data and dark signals in upcoming discussions."

3. Visualization of GTM Concepts The hosts acknowledge the need for visual aids to better illustrate the complex GTM processes and signal interactions.

   [42:46] Trevor: "We'll provide visualizations next week to help conceptualize these ideas."

Conclusion and What's Next

As the episode wraps up, Carolyn and Trevor emphasize the ongoing nature of their exploration into GTM strategies, promising future episodes to delve deeper into signals, data architecture, and team alignment. They encourage listeners to engage through LinkedIn, email, or live participation in future shows.

[45:02] Carolyn: "Feeling that prospects are primarily cold outbound? Layer in signals to uncover the true interactions driving your deals."

The hosts thank their audience for participation and tease upcoming topics, ensuring listeners remain engaged and informed.

Key Takeaways

• Holistic Tracking: Viewing the GTM process as an interconnected journey rather than isolated handoffs between marketing and sales.

• Significance of Signals: Capturing and analyzing all prospect interactions to inform smarter GTM investments and strategies.

• Advanced Data Architecture: Implementing robust CRM structures with dedicated objects for prospecting to ensure accurate data capture and analysis.

• Collaboration Over Attribution: Moving beyond "us versus them" in attributing deals to foster better team alignment and mutual understanding.

• Future Focus: Upcoming episodes will address integrating AI-related data gaps and enhancing visualization tools for GTM processes.

Notable Quotes:

• Carolyn [00:00]: "We call it the black hole of go to markets..."

• Trevor [03:01]: "It's not just about signals, it's about the efficiency of those signals as well."

• Carolyn [04:55]: "You're not able to look at all of those different interactions... tie it back to the business's financial performance."

• Trevor [21:15]: "Prospecting needs its own object... tracking stages like accepted, working, connected, disqualified."

• Carolyn [24:16]: "Half had attended an event and engaged with paid social campaigns."

• Trevor [40:44]: "Overlay them with prospecting data to see why you're reaching out and what drives those interactions."

For more insights and upcoming episode details, visit the Passetto website and join the live conversations every Tuesday at 1pm Eastern / 10am Pacific.