GTM Live – The Attribution Mirage & Why Chasing MQLs Keeps You Stuck

Podcast: GTM Live by Passetto
Date: September 12, 2025
Hosts: Carolyn Dilks & Amber (Head of RevOps, Passetto)

Main Theme

This episode tackles one of the thorniest problems in modern B2B SaaS go-to-market (GTM) strategy: the overreliance on outdated metrics—especially MQL (Marketing Qualified Lead) conversion rates—and the persistent belief that attribution solutions will “save” revenue teams from pipeline inefficiency. Carolyn and Amber argue that these approaches create a “pipeline black box,” obscuring insight into the messy middle between lead generation and qualified pipeline. With real examples and honest reflection, they dismantle the attribution mirage and advocate for more meaningful pipeline visibility, cross-team alignment, and modern measurement systems.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Most GTM Teams Are Stuck

• Market-wide problem: From $30M startups to $2B enterprises, GTM teams struggle with declining conversion rates and pipeline inefficiency.
• Recurring patterns: Low MQL to pipeline conversion (e.g., 2%–6%), soft win rates (down to 9%), and lack of repeatability—even at companies currently hitting targets ([04:49]).
• Industry inertia: B2B is “stuck in a measurement model...from at least a decade ago.” ([04:51], Carolyn). Slow-moving, risk-averse culture perpetuates stale frameworks and missed opportunities.

“We just are still stuck in like a 10-year-old something...and it’s like, oh, it’s hard. Change is hard.”
— Amber ([03:38])

2. The Pipeline Black Box & Messy Middle

• Oversimplified metrics: MQL→SQL conversion rates mask the real picture by aggregating complex, fragmented journeys.
• Missing measurement: Nearly every company fails to track what actually happens between MQL and opportunity creation. Opportunities are lost, touches are missed, root causes are not surfaced.
• False comfort in volume: Hiring more SDRs or cranking activity rarely improves actual results but creates more noise and resource drain ([19:20]).

“Everything in the middle is happening in these different silos...how can you optimize something that you can’t really measure?”
— Carolyn ([15:30])

3. Why Attribution Isn't (and Can’t Be) the Answer

• Attribution as a mirage: Most teams expect attribution tools to be their north star, justifying budgets and guiding strategy. In reality, attribution is only as good as the underlying data—and if pipeline conversion is weak, it just highlights the 2–6% tip of the iceberg, not the 94–98% wastage ([22:28]–[24:54]).
• Painful lessons: Carolyn recounts investing in major attribution tools at a Series B company, only to realize the real problems were bad CRM data, unclear processes, and lack of pipeline insight.

“Attribution doesn’t fix a pipeline problem or doesn’t fix, like, a flat pipeline trend at all. It’s just sort of ancillary data...If attribution was the be-all, end-all solution to this problem, why are we here?”
— Carolyn ([22:28], [32:59])

• Attribution is seasoning, not the main course: Should be used after the core system is healthy, not as the foundation ([35:03]).

“I sort of feel like attribution is almost like the seasoning on top...you need the core thing in the recipe first.”
— Carolyn ([35:03])

4. What to Track Instead: Illuminating the Black Box

• Granular measurement: Move beyond aggregate conversion rates—track exactly what happens to each lead/target: handoffs, disqualifications, nurture cycles, touch patterns, and drop-off reasons.
• Process clarity: Borrow from manufacturing (“the factory production line” analogy) to see exactly how leads move through GTM—what enters, what gets worked, what creates meetings, and what moves to pipeline ([29:28]).
• Person-level view: Stitch together cross-team and cross-tool data to visualize multi-attempt, multi-month journeys to meetings and opportunities ([15:30], [17:20]).
• Outcomes: This process reduces finger-pointing, aligns teams around outcomes (not vanity metrics), and enables confident resource decisions ([29:28], [36:24]).

“We should be able to have that same level of visibility or scrutiny in pipeline creation in GTM [as a factory line]...Once you have it, it changes everything in how you operate.”
— Carolyn ([29:28])

5. Real-World Impact & Notable Client Stories

• Epicen case study: After implementing this new approach, Epicen shifted from volume metrics and MQL/SQL bloat to actionable, collaborative meetings where marketing and sales jointly track true pipeline drivers ([36:24]).
• Culture transformation: No more finger-pointing about which department “sourced” what—instead, joint ownership of results and healthy debate on improvements ([38:07]).

“It’s totally transformed the culture at the go-to-market organization as well. So I’m super proud of that and the results that we drive.”
— Amber ([36:24])

6. Challenging the Old Playbooks

• Disputing “do a little of everything”: The hosts warn that “spray and pray” marketing burns resources and leads to pipeline plateaus, waste, and worse CAC. Clear, precise data can make prioritization scientific—which channels, people, and programs actually drive pipeline ([43:18], [45:05]).
• Right owner for the problem: Fixing the black box shouldn’t be relegated to only marketing—pipeline creation must be owned at the exec level (CRO, CEO, head of revenue).

“It is very irresponsible of a marketing leader to say, ‘Well, everything matters.’ …that’s potentially having a very negative impact on your company’s ability to grow profitably.”
— Carolyn ([43:18])

7. Advice for Change Agents & Leaders

• Stay focused: Marketers who believe in a modern, holistic approach need to hold firm and be agents of change even in face of resistance or inertia ([47:22]).
• Personal reflection: If you’re fighting entrenched models with no executive vision for change (especially as a marketing exec), ask yourself if the organization is right for your ambitions ([47:22]).
• Change is modular: Illuminating the black box doesn’t have to be a massive transformation—start small, get visibility, then layer in attribution and other analytics ([29:28], [31:29]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The notion that attribution will come save us is a mirage. We’re going to explain why.”
  — Carolyn ([00:00])

• “I know you talk about this a lot, Carolyn, but...what’s our MQL to SQL conversion rate? And it’s like, oh, this is what they’re being held up against...We really need a better system.”
  — Amber ([06:42])

• “Not every lead is created equal...Just dialing to dial is super inefficient.”
  — Carolyn ([19:20])

• “My CEO had pipeline shock...We don’t want to have pipeline shock when all of a sudden the number of opportunities we’re creating goes down. But...you have your hypothesis that’s rooted in data.”
  — Amber ([39:53])

• “Do you have a good, solid way of knowing what’s working and what’s not first before you start thinking about new channels to invest in?”
  — Amber ([43:18])
  “No...We use last touch attribution because it’s just too complicated.”
  — Unnamed guest ([43:18])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Theme Introduction & Market Frustrations: [00:00]–[04:49]
• The Pipeline Black Box Explained: [06:42]–[14:19]
• The Limits of Attribution: [21:22]–[27:09]
• Real Customer Examples & Cultural Shifts: [36:24]–[39:53]
• Challenging Old GTM Mentality: [41:17]–[45:51]
• Career Reflections & Advice for Change Agents: [46:20]–[49:31]

Conclusion

This episode of GTM Live offers a no-nonsense critique of the industry’s love affair with MQLs and attribution, urging listeners to illuminate the “production line” of pipeline creation instead. The practical stories, bold analogies, and clear frameworks make it a must-listen (or must-read) for SaaS revenue and marketing leaders tired of the same old playbook.

To take away: Stop chasing vanity metrics and attribution mirages. Start by illuminating what’s really happening before opportunity creation—then scale what actually works. And if your organization isn’t ready for this shift? Consider whether it’s the right place for your growth.