GTM Live – Episode Summary

Episode: "The Hidden Power of Rejection Data in GTM"

Podcast: GTM Live
Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Carolyn Dilks & Amber (Passetto)
Guest: Steve Armenti, Founder at 12th Agency

Brief Overview

In this episode, Carolyn and Amber from Passetto talk with Steve Armenti, longtime B2B SaaS marketer and founder of 12th Agency, about a refreshingly unconventional approach to Revenue Operations: unlocking growth and efficiency by harnessing rejection data in the go-to-market (GTM) process. Instead of focusing only on what’s working (conversion rates, SQLs, etc.), Steve makes the case for rigorously inspecting what isn’t working—disqualification and rejection data—revealing invaluable insights for CEOs, revenue leaders, and operators in high-performance B2B SaaS.

Episode Structure & Key Discussion Topics

1. Steve Armenti’s Backstory & the Genesis of 12th Agency

• Steve’s Journey: Began as an SDR, taught himself marketing by building a 30k visits/month blog, then moved into agency, then spent seven years at Google leading demand gen, growth, and ABM teams. Left corporate to reboot 12th Agency, focusing on ABM for growth-stage tech companies.
  [02:08] Steve: “I actually started in sales… just getting hung up on all day long for two years… taught myself marketing… then went into agency land… landed at Google after that and spent seven years leading demand and growth teams.”
• 12th’s Focus: Outcome-based marketing, deep collaboration between sales and marketing, and above all, data-driven ABM as an agile, iterative process (not a monolithic, one-time launch).
  [04:20] Steve: “We start with the outcome… and then we work backwards… we go deep into their ICP and their target market… it’s like a portfolio—you continue to add campaigns to it that work for you.”

2. Account-Based Marketing, ABX, and Reinventing GTM Collaboration

• ABX vs. ABM: Marketers love acronyms, but in practice, ABX = Account-Based Experience, going beyond just marketing to create a seamless, unified sales-marketing journey for target accounts.
• The "Iceberg" Analogy: Outward “experience” is built on a mountain of internal coordination, shared data, and truly knowing your ICP. [08:29] Steve: “ABX is at the top of what you see. But behind the scenes is this whole orchestrated approach that, if done correctly, will give you that unique account-based experience.”
• Host Commentary: “Why call it something special? Isn’t this just how modern sales and marketing should work?”
  [09:48] Steve: “I agree… it’s just the world we live in where people can grok a term like ‘ABM.’ But sometimes I get frustrated… someone says ‘ABM’s not a fit for us.’ And I’m like, well, define ABM… sometimes it’s not actually ABM that didn’t fit.”

3. Diagnosing Common GTM Problems: The ‘Messy Middle’

• Hand-off Hotspot: The #1 breakdown Steve sees is the handoff from marketing to sales—the pipeline black box or “messy middle.” Are leads scored? Are SDRs following up? Are there feedback loops and real conversations about what happened to MQLs? [11:14] Steve: “The number one place I go first is the handoff… you’ll learn a ton right there in that moment… they’re either siloed or they’re not.”
• Symptoms & Blame: Low SQL rates spark finger-pointing (“leads are bad!” vs. “SDRs aren’t following up!”) but the root is almost always in process, feedback, and lack of shared, trusted data. [13:20] Carolyn: “We call that messy middle… the pipeline black box. It’s where leads go to die…”

4. Practical Example: Flipping Conversion Analysis to Rejection Data

• The LinkedIn Spark: Steve responded to Carolyn’s post about MQL-to-Pipeline conversion rates with an idea—flip the focus. Rather than obsess over the 15% that convert, scrutinize the 85% that don’t for actual, actionable learning.
  [21:16] Carolyn: “...Steve saying, ‘Instead of analyzing your 15% SQL rate, go study the 85% rejection rate. You will learn a hell of a lot more.’”
• Why Rejection Rates Are Goldmines: At Google, Steve analyzed the ‘rejection reason’ in Salesforce. Realized “not a fit” was a catch-all, hiding nuances. Digging deeper, discovered misalignment of targeting (marketing was acquiring/influencing the wrong personas), SDR scripts mismatched, no multi-threading, and process breakdowns.
  [27:08] Steve: “We had like 12 or 13 different rejection reasons... one of the big ones was ‘not a fit,’ which… what does that mean?... We found we were spending millions acquiring these influencers, which sales wasn’t equipped to sell to.”
• Key Actionable Tip: The data is sitting in your CRM right now—pull a report of rejection reasons, then correlate with team feedback to unearth actionable process and targeting fixes.
  [29:00] Amber: “You can go into your CRM right now… double-click on that or get someone to pull the report…”

5. The Feedback Loop: Closing the Loop & Data Hygiene

• Making it Work: Technical fixes don’t help unless the org culture supports honest, regular, cross-functional feedback sessions—weekly, if possible. [31:22] Amber: “I love what you said too, about having that cadence… we have a cadence where we review this and so everything’s out on the table…”
• Why Leaders Avoid Disqualification Data: Fear, optics, and desire to “look good” push leaders to focus on small conversion gains rather than publicly confront failure rates. Steve urges owning the “mess.” [33:16] Steve: “Being afraid to basically open the floodgates on our mistakes… There’s an easier story to tell versus owning the fact that mistakes—maybe too heavy of a word—but things were tested that didn’t pan out…”

6. Optimizing, Not Chasing Vanity Metrics

• Do Less, Do it Better: Instead of doing “a little bit of everything,” do a few things excellently and deeply understand their true impact before chasing new channels.
  [35:21] Steve: “Put that time, money, and resource into making the other thing the best it can be… get that to a place where it’s steady state, and then build on top of it.”
• On Owning Bad Data: Disciplined leadership is needed to admit flaws and model the right behavior for teams. [36:49] Steve: “If you’re not disciplined in how you approach these things… expect your team to be? They’re going to follow suit…”

7. Steve’s Process at 12th Agency: Account-Based GTM Done Right

• Switching the Funnel View: Shift GTM analysis from individual (contact-level, MQL-QL-SQL) to account-level stages (awareness, engagement, meetings, etc).
  [37:52] Steve: “Map all of the accounts in your target account list by stage… as a go-to-market team, your job now is to move accounts from the prior stage to the next… whether it’s awareness, engagement, etc.”
• Intersection of Signals: Use cross-functional data (from sales, marketing, and product) to pinpoint your profitable segments—go deep, not wide.
• Data Hygiene is Everyone’s Job: Leadership must prioritize the right fields for their data, enforce the habits, and make the business case for operations hires early and forcefully.
  [45:29] Steve: “On the marketing side we often get lazy… like campaign nomenclature… go and fix that data if you’re going to ask sales to fix things on the sales side.”

8. Where to Start? The Unconventional Move: Renovate, Don’t Expand

• Immediate Opportunity: Don’t rush to add new campaigns or channels. Instead, deeply analyze current performance—especially failed or rejected leads—and overhaul what isn’t working.
  [48:21] Steve: “I wouldn’t do anything net new… take stock of what you have in market and renovate—fix the house you’re in… If private dinners work, align all your marketing to support that, rather than just adding more on top.”

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On flipping the funnel:
  “Instead of analyzing your 15% SQL rate, go study the 85% rejection rate. You will learn a hell of a lot more.”
  — Steve, [21:16]

• On the messy middle:
  “We call that messy middle, that gray area between sales and marketing, the pipeline black box. Because it really is where leads go to die.”
  — Carolyn, [13:20]

• On Org Alignment:
  “It wasn’t until I saw that working… all that stuff they say about marketing and sales alignment—it's actually true. You do need that.”
  — Steve, [16:18]

• On data hygiene:
  “Like, that was a super critical field… I needed the VP of sales to enforce that top down… On the marketing side… campaign nomenclature… go and fix that data.”
  — Steve, [43:31]

• On prioritizing renovation over volume:
  “Now’s the time… fix the house you’re in. Think about how your channels work together and is there opportunity to connect them better so the customer gets a better experience.”
  — Steve, [48:21]

Timestamps: Key Segments

• [02:08] – Steve shares his professional background and the journey to founding 12th Agency
• [07:18] – Deep dive into the evolution from ABM to ABX and the iceberg nature of GTM
• [11:14] – Discussion on the “hand-off” bottleneck and diagnosing GTM breakdowns
• [21:16] – Steve introduces the “reverse conversion analysis” of rejection data
• [27:08] – Practical breakdown: How analyzing rejection reasons in Salesforce revealed actionable GTM failures at Google
• [33:16] – Why teams avoid looking at rejections and the fear of airing failures
• [37:52] – Steve outlines 12th’s tactical approach: account-based funnel mapping and improving progression stages
• [43:31] – The criticality of data hygiene, leadership enforcement, and operations team investment
• [48:21] – The final takeaway: Renovate your current GTM, don’t blindly expand; make existing channels work together to support real revenue drivers

Engaging Closing Highlights

• Steve’s untraditional advice: “Renovate what you already have—don’t default to launching new campaigns.”
• If a sales dinner is where deals get closed, orient everything in marketing to serve that objective.
• Steve hosts in-person tech marketing meetups in Denver for those interested in continuing the conversation (find him on LinkedIn).

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a crash course in modern, high-ROI GTM tactics: ruthlessly analyze your GTM system's weak points, seek alignment with sales and marketing through data (especially rejection data), invest early in data hygiene and operations, and resist the urge to “do more”—instead, continually improve what’s already in market. For revenue leaders looking to break out of the vanity metrics loop, it’s an essential listen.