Episode 392: Layne Norton: The BEST Diet to Follow + Is Diet Coke Actually Bad For You?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle – Episode 392: Layne Norton: The BEST Diet to Follow + Is Diet Coke Actually Bad For You?

Release Date: October 25, 2024

In Episode 392 of Habits and Hustle, host Jennifer Cohen engages in an insightful conversation with renowned fitness expert Layne Norton. The episode delves deep into the intricacies of diet strategies and the often-debated topic of artificial sweeteners, particularly focusing on whether Diet Coke is detrimental to one's health. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the essence of their discussion, enriched with notable quotes and organized into clear sections for ease of understanding.

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1. The Search for the Optimal Diet

Layne Norton initiates the discussion by addressing a common question in the fitness and nutrition community: "Does one diet stand out as better than the others?" Referencing two systematic reviews that examined multiple diets, Norton concludes that no single diet outperforms others in long-term weight loss. Instead, success hinges on adherence. He states:

"Whatever you can stick to, whatever you can sustain is going to be the best diet for you."
[01:54]

Key Points:

• Individual Variability: Norton emphasizes that dietary effectiveness is highly individual. He shares personal anecdotes and experiences of different individuals thriving on various diets, such as intermittent fasting, low-carb, and plant-based diets.

  "I've had people say I did intermittent fasting and I didn't even feel like I was dieting... I've had people say I did a plant-based diet and I was so full all the time it felt easy."
  [02:00]

• Flexible Dieting: Norton advocates for flexible dieting, where individuals track their macronutrients—calories, protein, carbs, and fats—to maintain balance while allowing for occasional indulgences without guilt.

  "I track my calories, I track my protein, I track my carbs, my fats. Now, for some people, that feels very overwhelming. It feels extremely restrictive."
  [03:35]

• Adapting to Preferences: Recognizing that rigid diets may not suit everyone, Norton introduces Carbon Diet Coach, an algorithm-based nutrition coaching app designed to offer personalized dietary strategies based on individual preferences and sustainability.

  "We give people options. Do you want to be plant-based? Do you want to be low carb, ketogenic? Do you want to be balanced? Do you want to be low fat... you get to pick based on what you feel is most sustainable for you."
  [05:07]

2. Cognitive Dissonance in Diet Debates

The conversation shifts to the psychological aspects influencing dietary choices. Norton draws parallels between diet debates and political polarization, highlighting how cognitive biases prevent objective evaluation of information.

"That's what's called cognitive dissonance."
[07:29]

Key Points:

• Entrenched Beliefs: Norton discusses a study illustrating that presenting facts opposing an individual's beliefs (whether Democrat or Republican) often leads to stronger adherence to their original stance instead of reconsideration.

  "They did not admit they were wrong. It actually caused them to double down."
  [07:10]

• Overcoming Biases: Emphasizing the need for open-mindedness, Norton encourages listeners to focus on what works best for them personally rather than getting caught in the "diet wars."

  "Shouldn't the goal be to just figure out what works for people?"
  [05:43]

3. Is Diet Coke Actually Bad For You?

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the claims surrounding diet sodas and their impact on health, particularly focusing on Diet Coke.

Layne Norton systematically evaluates the evidence:

• Correlation vs. Causation: Initially, observational studies show a correlation between diet soda consumption and obesity. However, Norton points out that correlation does not imply causation, likening it to saying "basketball causes people to be tall."

  "That's like saying basketball is causing people to be tall, right?"
  [08:30]

• Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs): Norton references RCTs where substituting regular soda with diet soda led to significant weight loss, even more so than substituting with water.

  "The people drinking diet soda lost a little bit more weight than the people drinking water."
  [09:02]

• Gut Microbiome Concerns: Addressing fears about artificial sweeteners affecting gut health, Norton acknowledges some studies suggest changes in gut microflora but emphasizes the lack of clarity on whether these changes are harmful, beneficial, or neutral.

  "What we don't know is is it a bad change, good change, or neutral?"
  [09:38]

• Expert Insights: Citing gut microbiome researcher Suzanne Defkota, Norton underscores that artificial sweeteners are among the least concerning factors for gut health.

  "When it comes to gut health, it's one of the last things I'm worried about."
  [10:00]

• Naturalistic Fallacy: Norton challenges the notion that "artificial equals bad," explaining that many artificial components break down into substances naturally found in foods.

  "It's the naturalistic fallacy, which is if something is artificial, it must be bad for us."
  [11:15]

Conclusion on Diet Soda: Norton posits that while artificial sweeteners warrant further research, the practical benefits—such as significant weight loss for individuals replacing regular soda with diet alternatives—outweigh the potential, yet unclear, risks.

"If somebody wants me to say that it's bad for you, I don't think you can objectively say that... if it's a tool that helps people lose significant body weight and keep it off, then I think it's a net win."
[12:25]

4. Practical Takeaways

• Personalization is Key: There's no universal diet; the best approach is the one you can maintain long-term.

• Data Over Emotion: Decisions about diet should be grounded in scientific evidence rather than emotional biases or societal pressures.

• Critical Evaluation of Claims: Always assess health and nutrition claims critically, understanding the difference between correlation and causation.

• Utilize Available Tools: Leveraging technology, such as Carbon Diet Coach, can aid in creating sustainable and personalized nutrition plans.

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Final Thoughts:

Episode 392 of Habits and Hustle offers a balanced and evidence-based perspective on diet strategies and the contentious topic of diet sodas. Layne Norton effectively dispels myths, encourages individualized approaches, and promotes scientific literacy in making informed health decisions. Listeners are left with actionable insights and a reinforced understanding that sustainability and personal preference are paramount in achieving long-term health and wellness goals.

Transcript

[A]

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[B]

Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up.

[C]

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[A]

Now if we look at does one diet stand out as better than the others? So there's two studies I'm thinking of. There was one looking at four different diets and one looking at 14 different diets. Both were systematic reviews and they looked at long term weight loss and what they found was basically no diet performed better than another diet. But in one of them they stratified people, regardless of diet type, from least adherent to most adherent. And wouldn't you know it from least adherent to most adherent there was a linear reduction in body weight. So again, I know this sounds very like much like a cop out, but whatever you can stick to, whatever you can sustain is going to be the best diet for you. Now that appears to be extremely individual. I've had people say to me I did intermittent fasting and I didn't even feel like I was dieting. I've had people say I tried everything and I did low carb and it felt easy. I've had people say I did a plant based diet and I was so full all the time it felt easy. If you're going to lose weight and keep it off. You have to follow some form of restriction, but you should choose the form of restriction that feels the least restrictive to you. And also, don't assume that'll be the same for everybody. So for me, I tried the whole eat clean. 20 years ago when I was getting into bodybuilding, what I felt, what I found out was I was binging on the weekends, and I remember one day I just had like mowed down a whole pizza and I was like, you know, I feel like it's not the pizza itself that's, you know, screwing me up, it's the fact I'm eating the whole thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm going to try and hit these calories and protein and carbs and fats and let myself, if I feel like I want something, let myself have it. And wouldn't you know it, I had no problems after that.

[B]

You were able to stop at just a little amount?

[A]

Yep. Now that's, that's my personality, my psychology. Right. So I'm somebody, like, if I know I can have it, it makes me actually want it less.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. So I track my calories, I track my protein, I track my carbs, my fats. Now, for some people, that feels very overwhelming. It feels extremely restrictive. They just say, well, I'd rather just like reduce my carbohydrate intake and not worry about it. Okay, then do that.

[B]

Depends on who you are.

[A]

But again, but funny enough, when I got into coaching people, I thought, well, I've got the solution. I'll just have everybody do this flexible dieting thing and this will solve all the problems. And of course, you know, learned. Hey, dum dum. Not everyone's like you right now.

[B]

What did you find for the people that you've trained? Of all the people you've trained, what has been, what has worked the most in terms of what you've seen?

[A]

Well, flexible dieting has worked the most. But that's a selection bias because people come to me because they know I'm a flexible dieting guy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so then they end up wanting to gravitate towards that. And I'll always tell people in low carb or fasting, like, they're like, look at all these people who've gotten all these results. I'm like, yeah, because they're coming to you because they're already, they're already sold on that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So what I would say is, like, listen, you know, I think that this is great news personally, because it means the world is your oyster. Whatever dietary strategy helps you, like, be able to be Consistent. Just do that. I mean, we have like a nutritional coaching app that we designed.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Algorithm based coaching app. And we don't. We, you know, what's it called? It's called Carbon Diet Coach.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's like basically like one on one nutrition coaching, but for a fraction of the price. So $10 a month. And it's all algorithm based algorithm that I helped write. But we don't. When it comes to dietary preference, we give people options. Do you want to be plant based? Do you want to be low carb, ketogenic? Do you want to be balanced? Do you want to be low fat? And you can pick. And then even within those, we let you shimmy the numbers a little bit so you can really get to something. And we don't say, hey, you've got to eat five meals a day or three meals a day or eight meals a day. You get to pick based on what you feel is most sustainable for you in terms of dietary strategy.

[B]

Oh, that's great.

[A]

So, you know, I really think that reframing this stuff is like, we get into these diet wars. Everybody wants to be the winner and have their diet be best. And I'm like, shouldn't the goal be to just figure out what works for people? And when people say, you can't lose fat eating carbohydrates, I'm like, how many millions of examples of people eating low fat, higher carb diets and losing fat and getting very lean do we need before we say, well, that's Obviously not true.

[B]

100% true.

[A]

And I think people get so. And I'm guilty of this. It's like they find whatever worked for them and then try to justify why it's the best thing to do. It's almost like we're just like. It's like teams, right?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

It's like it goes to politics, all the whole thing.

[B]

It goes with everything. But it's also like, because we want to, we don't. To change our mind is very difficult.

[A]

Oh yeah, right.

[B]

And so if we have that in our brain, it takes a. Is it cognitive dissonance?

[A]

Is that what it's called, cognitive dissonance?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Great example of that. And this is an example of politics. But I think there was a study done like 10 years ago, and they showed both Democrats and Republicans facts that would either support or refute, like directly refute a position they held. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What they found is that whether it refuted or supported their position, both things were equally as effective as causing the person to become more entrenched in their beliefs. So when they presented facts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To these people and it didn't matter if it was Democrats or Republicans, both. This is a people problem. This is not a party problem. When they presented facts to Democrats and Republicans that were. That refuted a position they held, people did not take the other side. They did not admit they were wrong. It actually caused them to double down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what's called cognitive dissonance.

[B]

That's so true. I totally agree with that. Okay, I didn't ask you about artificial sweeteners like stevia versus aspirin, because I think you did something on Diet Coke, like everyone. Because if you, if you are, if you hold a Diet Coke around these days, it's. You might as well just hold like a machete and like, you know what I mean? Like, it's unbelievable. Like, God forbid you have a Diet Coke. I'm like, that's my biggest weakness is, you know, whatever. You don't think it's as bad as people think it is. Like, it's like, Right, that's.

[A]

I mean, I'll tell people. Do you want to discuss feelings or do you want to discuss what the data actually says?

[B]

I want the data.

[A]

So if we look at the effects on like type 2 diabetes on weight loss, so if you look at correlation data, which is basically, what characteristics do people who drink more diet sodas have? Well, you can find a correlation between obesity and diet soda. And so they've gone, aha. See, it's causing people to be fat. Well, that's like saying basketball is causing people to be tall, right?

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Like, but if we actually look at the randomized control trials where they substitute diet sodas instead of regular soda, they see significant loss of body weight. And actually people say, well, it's not better than water. There was a recent network meta analysis done where they compared diet soda versus regular soda, water versus regular soda and water versus diet soda. The people drinking diet soda lost a little bit more weight than the people drinking water.

[B]

Stop it now.

[A]

That's. Diet soda is not a fat burner. Okay? They're just eating less. So what that suggests is people are. If they're substituting with water, they're still seeking out that sweet taste somewhere else. So now people will say, well, that's just weight loss. Like, it can't be healthy for your gut microbiome and whatnot. So there's only a couple studies in humans on the gut microbiome. Most of it's been in petri dishes and high dose rodent studies, it does appear that some of these artificial sweeteners do change the gut microflora. However, what we don't know is is it a bad change, good change, or neutral?

[B]

We don't know those things.

[A]

Don't know those things, no. And I've talked to several. One of my colleagues who did her master's at Illinois when I was doing my PhD in my lab. Suzanne Defkota is one of the world's leading researchers on gut microbiome. And I asked her about diet soda, and she said, when it comes to gut health, it's one of the last things I'm worried about.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So, for example, so there was a study done where they showed that, you know, artificial sweeteners. I. I don't know if it was aspartame. I think it was sucralose, which is Splenda. Yeah, yeah, Splenda. They showed that. And. And it does appear to be artificial sweetener dependent. I don't know if aspartame changes the gut microbiome. There was a study looking at it. I can't remember exactly which one it was. I know sucralose did, but if you look at the microflora that it changed in terms of reducing and increasing, they did note an increase in the production of things like butyrate and propionate. So if you go and look at the literature on butyrate and propionate, guess what? They actually appear to have health benefits. So now, I'm not saying that artificial sweeteners are necessarily good for your gut. What I'm saying is we don't know. But what I'll tell you is this. If I can get somebody to stop drinking regular soda and drink diet soda, and they lose 50 pounds, and every time I post about this, there'll be multiple people say, all I did was cut out regular soda and drank diet soda, and I lost £50, £70, £100. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me, regardless of whatever is happening with the gut microbiome, which we don't know, that that person is not healthier now for having lost £50.

[B]

That is amazing. So where did this all come from?

[A]

It's the naturalistic fallacy, which is if something is artificial, it must be bad for us. But if you look at, like, what aspartame breaks down into, it's aspartic acid, phenylalanine, and then it breaks down into methanol. Oh. Oh, gosh. Methanol. Let me get to that. Aspartic acid and phenylalanine are amino acids. You get 20 times aspartic, the aspartic acid and phenylalanine in a steak that you do in a diet soda. All right, so let's just. Let's just take those out of it.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

The methanol, it's such a small amount, your body can easily metabolize it. And I believe you get more methanol and like, a glass of tomato juice than you do in diet soda.

[B]

Really?

[A]

So, because you have to understand, while a Coke is like 40 grams of sugar, artificial sweeteners are hundreds of times sweeter than regular sugar. So aspartame, I think, is 200 times sweeter than sugar, and sucralose is like 600 times sweeter. So you're talking about milligrams of this stuff. It's a very, very small amount, which is why, again, when they cite these rodent studies where they're giving a thousand times the dose of what they would normally give humans, I kind of go, who cares?

[B]

It doesn't matter.

[A]

I'm not saying people should drink diet soda. I'm not encouraging it as a weight loss tool. What I'm saying is right now, if you. If somebody wants me to say that it's bad for you, I don't think you can objectively say that. Do I think it warrants further investigation? Of course. But again, if it's a tool that helps people lose significant body weight and keep it off, then I think it's. I think it's a net win.