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Habits and Hustle
Episode 395: Dr. Abe Malkin on Next-Gen Health: NAD Drip Therapy, Ketamine and Environmental Testing
00:51:04
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
- [00:07]
B
You guys, this is a real treat because if you've been listening to Habits and Hustle from the beginning, then you may know who my guest is today. It is my dearest of dearest friends, Dr. Abe, otherwise known as Dr. Abe Malkin. Him and I actually started the podcast together five years ago. I think we had, like, three or four episodes, maybe more. But you never heard him talk because I talked the whole time, and he kind of was. You know, what would you say? Abe, what happened to you?
- [00:37]
A
Where can people find those? In the archives.
- [00:39]
B
Those archives.
- [00:39]
A
I think they would be very entertaining.
- [00:41]
B
Oh, it's hilarious. So Abe and I just, full disclosure, used to be, like, super, super tight. We still are. He's like my little brother. I love him. But Abe went on to be bigger and better and just so crazy successful. I'm very proud of him. He has, like, five different big health and wellness companies. He covers everything. So he is, like the guy in longevity. Like, if I have a question, I always call Abe. And then he's too big for me, so he passes me onto an underling. But that's okay. So, Abe, anyway, thank you for being here.
- [01:13]
A
It's a pleasure. See, this is what happened. You put me on the podcast, I learned all your trade secrets, and I just went and started my own business.
- [01:18]
B
Yeah, I know. See, that's exactly.
- [01:20]
A
Now I'm back, Right?
- [01:20]
B
Right now you're back after five years and crushing the world. By the way, for you guys who are watching this and not listening, Abe and I are actually doing an iv. It's called a Niagen iv, and it is supposed to be the next level game changing for your mitochondrial health, your cellular health. Abe, actually, you're the doctor. Can you talk about what we're doing?
- [01:43]
A
Yeah. What's interesting is this is a new product, the Niagen iv, that is basically a precursor to nad. If we were getting an NAD IV right now, we would both be so uncomfortable.
- [01:53]
B
Totally.
- [01:53]
A
We wouldn't be able to do the podcast. I think we actually tried to do it at one point, or we just couldn't do it.
- [01:57]
B
Oh, it was horrible. But by the way, we actually did the nad. We did a couple of those nadiv with Dennis Rodman. That's right.
- [02:04]
A
Yes. And you need to be, like, a professional athlete to, like, get through it quickly. But N. And the Niagen IV is much different. It gives you even more benefit than the Nadiv, but you can race through it. In 75% faster than you can in Nadiv. So we're going to get the IV done in 30 or so minutes. Really helps with energy, with mood, with sleep, with brain health. So a lot of benefits of the IV in a very short amount of time.
- [02:29]
B
Okay, so let's talk about this. So for those of you who don't know, because we're talking as if everyone should know what an NAD IV is, right? So people do know what NAD is. I think a lot of people who are, you know, know about nad, but people take it in pill form. Can we just give a brief overview of what NAD is? Just overall, what the benefits are and the different forms so people have an idea. So just some back backstory.
- [02:55]
A
You know, those in the biohacking community have known about NAD for a long time, but it's great that now it's becoming more mainstream. Makes my job a lot easier that I don't have to explain it to as many people, because people are starting to hear about it now from their friends, their doctors and so forth. But essentially, NAD is an enzyme, a coenzyme, that helps your body generate chemical reactions. So everything you do in the world requires your body to be generating chemical reactions. And you burn through your NAD levels. And as you age, you produce less and less nad. And which is one of the reasons that contributes to aging. So from an anti aging perspective, NAD is really helpful for helping reverse the clock. So as you're performing these chemical reactions, your body is using up the nad, almost like a blank check. So whether you need more energy or better sleep, you have addiction problems or whatnot, NAD is really giving your body what it needs. Through that chemical reaction process. It's powering your energy production in your mitochondria. So at a very basic level, as you age and your body requires more and more NAD, repleting it with IVs or orally can really help you give yourself the stuff it needs to help prepare itself.
- [03:58]
B
Okay, so nr, right? Is NR the same as nad?
- [04:02]
A
Great question. So NAD is made up of two things, made up of NR and nmn. And so a lot of people are out there selling NR supplements, selling NMN supplements. NAD is the combination of two. But the reason you hear about nad specifically with IVs, is that it's not bioavailable. So if you take it orally, you can't absorb it into the cells, which is why you have NR and NMN supplements. So with this IV in particular that we're getting right now, because it's nr, it can pass through directly into our cells without having to get broken down first. Which is why when you get an NAD iv, it takes three hours. Cause you have to infuse it. It gets broken down, it's uncomfortable, and then it's absorbed up into the cells. Whereas the Niagen IV with NR is absorbed directly into the cells as you infuse it.
- [04:46]
B
Okay, so there's always these a million. I get a ton of questions just on the difference between NR and nmn. Can you talk about why? Why is there such controversy between the two? And is there a big difference?
- [04:59]
A
So there's been studies on both sides, NR and nmn, about the bioavailability and the effectiveness. I think there's studies on both sides, but it's clearly evident that NR is absorbed into the cell directly, whereas NAD has to be broken down into the two components. And that's why you see supplements selling oral NR or nmn. You won't see supplements selling oral nad.
- [05:21]
B
But n. Okay, so. But right. So like, if you're taking an oral. Let's just say with the oral NR versus the oral nmn, which one is more effective?
- [05:32]
A
I would say that the literature at this point is pointing to NR being more effective and more absorbed, better absorbed into the cell and leading to higher levels of nad. And really, ultimately, that's what you're trying to get. You're trying to get higher levels of nad. So what's really important is to actually track your increase in NAD levels to get an objective measurement. And that's what's exciting right now. A lot of people have been talking about the subjective benefits of NAD for years. Better energy, better sleep, better mood. But now there are tests coming out which can objectively measure your NAD levels after taking supplementation, either orally or vividly.
- [06:07]
B
So if you're taking in an IV form versus orally is because it goes right into your bloodstream. So is that why a. It's. Does it work better? Is it. What is the difference?
- [06:18]
A
So taking.
- [06:19]
B
Or you can also take those people I know are taking NAD shots.
- [06:23]
A
I would say the hierarchy in terms of effectiveness and absorption is the best way you can take any supplement, for that matter, is really iv, because that gets completely absorbed into the cell, then intramuscular or subcutaneous, and then oral. And so the amount of NAD gain you can generate from a treatment via IV is far greater than what you can gain via oral. If you had to take oral pills to equal the amount of NAD that you're getting from a IV infusion, you'd have to take many, many pills and that which wouldn't be, wouldn't feel good in your stomach. So for most people, the amount of energy delivered via IV is far greater than an oral pill, which is why you generally see better absorption rates via iv.
- [07:07]
B
Can you od?
- [07:08]
A
No. It's a great question. People. You asked me the other day said, hey, I just got a Nigen IV the other day, can I have another one today?
- [07:15]
B
Yeah.
- [07:15]
A
It's like putting gasoline in your car or getting an oil change. You know, your car will run more efficiently if you get an oil change every day. But you can't have too many oil changes. And so I say to people, your body will use up whatever you give it. You're constantly performing chemical reactions and using up nad. So the more you give yourself, the better it will run.
- [07:34]
B
But does it store or do you just pee it out?
- [07:37]
A
It's, it's a molecule that your body is constantly using it. So you will use NAD on a several day lag time. Okay, so if you get an IV today, you'll use it up over the next two or three days. You're not going to use it up all right away, but your body will use more of it the more you give it. And so it is soluble. So if you do, you could it essentially urinate it out. It's not going to over build in your body, but you really can't take too much of it.
- [08:00]
B
That's good to know because also because like I'm always concerned with supplements in general, that your body will acclimate or you're giving it what it's not deficient in, so therefore it's actually can be harmful. That was always my concern.
- [08:13]
A
It's a great question. So I like to think of supplements, or any treatment for that matter, in terms of precursors versus end products. So if you give your body an end product, like if you give your body testosterone or if you give your body growth hormone, it triggers your body's natural reaction to stop production because you're getting it exogenously. But Ned, because it's an, it's a, it's an enzyme, it's a precursor, it's fueling your body's production even more. So your body knows what to do with it and to generate more of it. So if you give your body an end product versus a precursor, your body would shut down its production. But if you give your body a precursor, it's actually stimulating it to produce more.
- [08:51]
B
So then. Okay. Why is there so much talk though about NAD and anti aging so if it's about your cellular health, your mitochondrial health, brain fog, how does that. Maybe this sounds stupid, but how does it make you look younger?
- [09:04]
A
So think about. Your body is always trying to self correct. And as you age, part of what causes aging is your body's inability to self correct. And studies have shown that NAD levels naturally over time decrease. So at the age of 30 or 35, your body starts slowing down its production of NAD, therefore it can't self correct as well. Additionally, toxins, stress, alcohol, other things that we encounter on a day to day basis reduce our levels. So in a perfect world, if we never reduced our production of NAD, or plenty of other things that cause aging, we wouldn't age. But the idea is to find out what is causing the harmful effects of aging and replace that in a safe way to slow the effects of aging.
- [09:46]
B
I'm just fascinated by all this because like, how does anyone know what really works, right? Because we're living in a time when like everyone's doing all these things, right? The cold plunging, the saunas, the IVs, you name it, right? Like red light, all the things. And like a lot of times people are like, well, does it work? And you're like, I don't know, like, how do you know? Like what are like. Unless it's like, is it a placebo effect? Like, if you think it works, it works. Like, is there a measurable test that people can take to see what's working, what's not working?
- [10:15]
A
It's a great question. There's a couple of things you can do. So first of all, subjective benefit is benefit, whether or not you can measure it. There are still plenty of subjective benefits of treatments like this as what there are with cold plunge and with infrared sauna and other things you can do. And it's not that there's one silver bullet that accomplishes everything. I think they each incrementally help. That being said, you obviously want to have objective benefits as well. So you can check NAD levels, you can check your biological age. That's a very popular test. Now that there's a couple of different companies that sell that tests things like methylation on your DNA strands and essentially measures how close to being pure your DNA strands are from how they were when they were originally created. And that's why you can check your biological age versus your chronological age and see what the difference is. So there are definitely objective measures of aging that people can check. And you know, guys like Brian Johnson have a large discrepancy between their biological age and their Chronological age through all the things that they're doing.
- [11:11]
B
Wow, that's so funny you brought up Brian John. His name has come up now like four times to me in the last, like few days. Because funnily enough, me and Ben Greenfield did one of these Niagen IVs on Friday. That's why I was like, well, is it okay if I do one again? And he, we talked about him because the guy's doing like, he makes Ben Greenfield look like a wallflower compared to it. Like I said to him, like, what has he done that you haven't done at this point? Because a guy is like all in. Is that. And, and I hate to be, and I'm not trying to say sound mean or anything like that, but like, when I look at Brian, he doesn't look that much younger and he's done so many things. So like, is, is there a point? A, A point like you pass of no return? Like, the truth is like, I know a lot of people who don't do shit. Like, they just, like that they do whatever and they look a million times better than all these people who are doing all of these crazy, like, you know, modalities and routines. And like, is it, what part of it is just genetics? Like, you can't. Can you fight genetics? How much can you fight genetics? And how much of it is actually genetics?
- [12:13]
A
So I think in addition to all the things we're talking about, Nad, Niagen IVs, infrared sauna, cold punch, there's a lot of other factors that you can control internally which make a big difference, like sleep, like lack of stress, like exercise. I know Peter Attia likes to talk about the things that are like non negotiable and then things you can do that, that are to supplement your everyday routines. The non negotiable stuff, you have to sleep, you have to eat, you have to have a live a life where of stress free. That stuff is extremely impactful. So even people that aren't necessarily doing the infrared sauna and the cold plunge, and if they have other good habits, they can look great. So I, I take that with a grain of salt. I think if you had poor habits and then you did nad and cold plunge and infrared sauna, perhaps you could balance the two out. But having those core habits at the beginning is really fundamental to having a healthy lifestyle.
- [13:04]
B
Right, I agree. So give me an example. Like, what do you do? What's your daily habits? You're. You do this all day long.
- [13:10]
A
I remember you used to start your podcast with this.
- [13:12]
B
I Know, I still, I still, I do incorporate the habits and the routines. I just mix and mix where I put it in the podcast. Yeah, but here you are, you do this all day and you know, I know your client list and like, you're like the people that see you are like insane. Like, it's like all the biggest names in the world, literally in everything business and in Hollywood. Now you tell me what you do daily. Like, I know you're very healthy. I see. I know your life. But like, tell me where you're non negotiables. Like what are your absolute non negotiables?
- [13:44]
A
And everyone's is different. My non negotiable is exercise. Like I exercise every single day. If I go a day without exercising, I don't feel well. I know for other people, their non negotiables is their morning routine or certain or fasting or other types of habits they have. For me, I take a lot of pleasure from work. So work is something that I definitely plan my day around. But where it comes to staying healthy and staying productive, it's the daily exercise. So whether that's weightlifting or playing basketball or tennis or cardio, that's a non negotiable for me and something that I know that will enable me to operate at a high level. And I think to your question earlier about how come some people can look good without doing all the anti aging treatments that other people do. It goes back to their ability to know themselves and to not miss things that they know will maintain their health. So for me, that's exercise. For other people, that might be a certain diet. For other people, it's getting seven or eight hours of sleep. I think everyone has to find what makes them unique, what uniquely helps them stay healthy and feel good.
- [14:47]
B
So exercise for me also is my absolute non negotiable. Everything else can take a backseat to me because that's great for my mental health, like the brain. But talk about brain fog. The best way to counteract brain fog, in my opinion, is exercise. It makes you way more productive. It makes my brain work a thousand times faster. And I have energy. Like energy begets energy to me. It's like I don't know how. Like my, I'm unable to like function properly and well without it. But you, your schedule, like, are you still like, you travel like you're like a jet setter. You're never even in one place longer than four days. Like, seriously, like, how often are you on a plane now? Like every two days.
- [15:27]
A
I tried. I had a period where I was Traveling every other weekend. Although now, to be honest, I, I'm traveling a little bit less and I'm focusing a little bit more on a better routine here in la. But that, but again, you can live that kind of lifestyle. You can travel as long as you, while you're away, go to the gym, go for a run. I don't know, you don't seem like someone who meditates. I'm not someone who meditates, but for me, when I go for a run, I get that meditative experience.
- [15:52]
B
To me, what I think about. I love running too. I feel like it's controlled meditation. Like it is, it's, it's forcing me to go into a state of flow that I would otherwise never do. And I always say to people, like, meditation doesn't have to just be you sitting in an position, like on a, on a cushion, you know, like everyone's different. For me, my meditation practice is running. I get my best ideas also from running and. But I was going to say, though, I find when I travel it's very hard for me to stay on routine. It's very hard for me to keep my habits, even if I, even if they are non negotiables, even if, you know, I know the importance of it because like, you know, you get fatigued differently. Like your circadian rhythm is off. How are you able to exercise daily like you do while you're. And you're not going to like, you know, you're not going an hour away, you're going around the world. How are you doing that?
- [16:48]
A
Well, that's why I don't use an aura ring. I used to use an AA ring because some days it tells you not to work out. And I realize for me that doesn't exist. Yeah, like I don't. If I didn't get a good night's sleep the night for. I'll still feel better if I go to the gym. And luckily, you know, aerobics. Working out, I think used to be more of a US centric thing where in the US we were very big on it, but in Europe and other places they weren't. But now no matter where you go, hotels have gyms. There's places you can go running, to be honest, like just walking too. Like everyone says the same thing. They go to Europe, they eat pasta, they have wine and no one ever gains a pound because they're walking every day, they're eating foods that aren't processed. So I think in whatever extent you can, just being active, moving every day is something anyone can Do.
- [17:33]
B
Does it make a difference what time you're working out though? Like, morning versus night.
- [17:37]
A
I'm jealous of people that are morning workout people. I'm not. To me, I have to get through my day of, like, business work and then I go to the gym. It's also like, a good departure for me for the day.
- [17:48]
B
Like, aren't you tired by the end of the day?
- [17:50]
A
No, I, like, I get so much energy when I go after the work, after work. If I go in the morning, I'm like, thinking about other things. I'm worrying about my meetings. I'm on my phone while I'm at the gym. If I go after work, I can just block after two hours of time and not think about anything else.
- [18:04]
B
You know why that is?
- [18:05]
A
I don't have kids.
- [18:06]
B
Exactly. You have no kids and no responsibilities. And that is why it is impossible. Because, you know, a certain time of day happens and like, you're just. I. I feel the. I'm the opposite. Where I feel like if you don't knock it out first thing in the morning, it will never happen. I will be like, I will think of every other. Not because even I want to, but something will come up inevitably that I will have to take care of or my kid or this or that. So. And then it's always in your head, like, oh, I have to work out, I gotta work out, I gotta do. But if you just get it done, then you have the energy that you need for the day to work. Well, like, to me, if I'm doing it also at the end of the day, I'm like, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the wherewithal and the brain focus and the alert? Like, the alertness.
- [18:52]
A
See, I find that if I know at the end of the day I have a time set aside to go to the gym or to work out, I can just focus on what I need to do, knowing I have that bonus at the end of the day. And I also do feel great when I work out in the morning, but most of the time I just don't have the time to do it. But I think everyone knows what makes them tick and knows what works best for them. It's just a matter of, like, holding yourself accountable and doing it. So whether you're a morning person or an afternoon person, if you say you're going to do it, you got to do it, right?
- [19:20]
B
Okay, so what are your habits, though, besides exercise every day?
- [19:23]
A
That's a big one. I also, like, eat pretty healthy. I eat a lot, but I Eat pretty healthy. I don't. I've really recently cut out a lot of gluten from my diet and that's made a big difference. I don't eat a lot of snacks or refined sugars. I'll eat plenty of meals with high protein and other things like that. But I try to cut out like snacking throughout between meals. That's made a big difference for me. Sleep is also something that I've really tried to focus on recently. I don't understand people that can sleep four or five hours a night and function. I need seven or eight hours of sleep. And so I've started taking some sleep supplements before I go to bed. I started taking some cortisol blockers to help me not wake up during the middle of the night.
- [19:58]
B
Really?
- [19:59]
A
And that's helped me quite a bit.
- [20:00]
B
Yeah, I've never heard of that. What's a cortisone blocker?
- [20:03]
A
So the reason people often wake up at, you know, 2, 3, 4 in the morning.
- [20:07]
B
Right.
- [20:07]
A
Is because their cortisol levels naturally spike in middle of the night. And so you, you wake up, you go to the bathroom or what? Or not. And then you sometimes go back to sleep, sometimes you don't.
- [20:16]
B
Right.
- [20:17]
A
That was always my problem. I didn't have problems falling asleep early. It was waking up middle of the night and then not going back to sleep. So you can buy supplements online. You know, they have a combination of things like Ashwagandha and L Theanine that you can take to help blunt that cortisol spike. And it helps you actually stay asleep in the middle of the night. And even if you do wake up, you'll go back to sleep more quickly. So it's the stuff before bed like magnesium and acetol and glycine and then a cortisol blocker which helps prevent the spike in the middle of the night.
- [20:43]
B
I've never heard of that before.
- [20:44]
A
These are great. These are like life changing.
- [20:46]
B
That's something I've walked away from this.
- [20:47]
A
Podcast with two things. Niagen IVs and those sleep supplements that I talked about.
- [20:52]
B
That's amazing. Magnesium. The magnesium I've heard a million times. Never heard about the cortisone blocker ever. Is there danger towards that or like.
- [21:02]
A
No, they're all natural supplements and so you can take them individually. Like you can take Ashwagandha and L Theanine, but I like, there's a product called Cortisol Manager which helps block cortisol spikes. We should probably stop our IVs, by the way.
- [21:14]
B
Yeah, let's take a quick break from this episode to discuss a very important habit we can all improve on. Do you know that three out of four homes in America have harmful contaminants in their tap water? And someone like me who is obsessed with building better healthy habits, this statistic stopped me in my tracks. I mean our bodies are 60% water. Shouldn't we care about what's in it? That's why I'm really excited to tell you guys about Aquatru. It has been a game changer in my journey towards better health. Here's what makes it special. Their purifiers use a four stage reverse osmosis process that removes 15 times more contaminants than regular pitcher filters. And we're talking about that like scary stuff like PFAS that forever chemicals found in almost 45% of us tap water. And the one thing I actually love about Aquatru is that it's not complicated to install. You just plug it in and you're good to go. And they last between six months to two years. And one set of filters makes an equivalent of 4,500 bottles of water. So that's like less than 3% per bottle. It is really amazing. So if you're ready to upgrade your water, I hope you are, do it now because Aquatru comes with a 30 day money back guarantee and even makes a great gift. Today you guys can receive 20% off any Aquatru purifier. Just go to aquatru.com that's a Q U a T r u dot com and enter code hustle at checkout. That's 20% off any Aquatru water purifier. When you go to aquatru.com and use the promo code Hustle, I find that the guys who are doing all this biohacking, either they look really old, they look like double their age, or they look exceptionally good. But with women I just find they just look their age. I don't find that in terms of the aesthetic piece. Yeah, I find it makes a big difference sometimes with the man, but not with the women.
- [23:29]
A
I don't know. I think for me at least if I get a good night's sleep the night before, that's everything. I didn't sleep much Saturday night. Last night I slept nine hours.
- [23:38]
B
Nine hours.
- [23:39]
A
I went to sleep at, got in bed at 8:30pm that never happens. Never happens.
- [23:45]
B
Geez, that's. I, I mean you have children, you'll never ever see that the light of day again in terms of sleep like that. It's a whole different life when you have people who have kids versus who don't and people who have kids, they age 20 years. So like if you see someone who's like 40 with kids versus someone who's 40 without kids, I promise you the person that's 40 with, with kids will look 10 years old.
- [24:08]
A
Do you think that's because of sleep?
- [24:10]
B
I think it's sleep deprivation. I think it's overall just stress. I think when you have, you have more just overall responsibility. I think it over time it just, it does take a toll. Look at, look at Obama. Remember every president, by the way, who goes into the office, right. Just the overall stress and toll of what that job is. They come out, they go in looking like JFK Jr and they come out looking like, you know, Ed Grimley, like every single time.
- [24:36]
A
But it's worth it. It's worth it.
- [24:38]
B
I mean with the kids or the presidency, I guess. So yes, it is worth it. They say it is, you know, but no, I mean, listen, yes. Like everything in life, there's good things and bad things with it. So let's talk more about the longevity stuff. So don't have kids. Yeah, exactly. Don't have kids. You want to live forever, don't have kids. Actually that's not true. In fact, all the research has proven and show that what makes people the healthiest and live the longest is actually socialization and community and family. Right. Or community. And when you have people that you love and love you, that there's no better supplement on the planet to be happy over time, live longer, all those things than that. Like you can do all the supplements you want and all the saunas that you want. But if you don't have a sense of community or have people to share it with, you might as well have nothing.
- [25:32]
A
I think that's what's interesting. Now there's all these like biohacking longevity communities.
- [25:37]
B
Yeah.
- [25:37]
A
Like I moved to the west side now and I'm everywhere in Venice and Santa Monica run clubs, infrared sauna clubs, really cold plunge groups like all over the place. This didn't exist like five or ten years ago.
- [25:51]
B
Hold on a second. What do you mean there's an infrared. There's actually sauna clubs.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah. So like, you know, pause has a 20 person sauna in one of their locations where they have sauna days where you can go through and there are these cold plunge parties where people come and drink coffee and go in cold plunges. There's a place in Venice that just opened up that that's putting a 10 person cold plunge under a roof so you can look at the ocean while you're in the cold plunge. Like blending. And I think that's what's cool about these social wellness medical facilities now is they're starting to make wellness part of your lifestyle and a way to interact socially. So it's not just you by yourself suffering in a cold lunge. You can also like get a date out of it too.
- [26:28]
B
That's amazing. So I, that's actually really interesting because I figured that like, you know, like people like, like minds find each other, right? Like if you're someone who's into running, you'll find someone who runs at a running club. And I know that if you're into saunas and cold plunges, you'll find people who are interested. But the idea, I never heard that they actually, that they exist already where you're merging the socialization with the actual modality. That is so smart.
- [26:53]
A
You know, Venice run club, I did it once and they make you, before you run, identify if you're single or not. So it becomes like a dating plus activity and it becomes like a huge hit. Everyone wants to do it. It's so much better than going to the bar and getting a drink. So much tired of drinking. Like drinking is over. Like it's just not fun anymore.
- [27:12]
B
I feel like drinking has become passe. Like the new, you know, drinking is cold plunging or infrared red light and cold plunging or the hybrid, the hot cold.
- [27:24]
A
I mean, we live in la, so it's easy for us to say that. I'm sure Nebraska and other places in the country, it's probably not the case, but hopefully eventually we'll extend, like even for us. You know, I started my IV company, we were in la and then we did New York and we did major cities. I never in a million years thought I would launch in St. Louis, Missouri or Louisville, Kentucky. But there's a demand for this stuff everywhere now.
- [27:46]
B
Really? Yeah.
- [27:46]
A
And it's. And even in Europe there's places that you'd never think would want IV therapy. But it's starting to get more popular. So whatever we're doing, and I think a lot of it is podcasts like yours and other big podcasts that are espousing this stuff. It's getting the word out there. It's in the zeitgeist. People are getting excited about it, they're talking about it with their friends and there's this like social pressure in a sense, in a good way to what are you doing? For your wellness? What are you doing for your health outside of just working and going out? There's like a whole undercurrent now which is pushing this stuff to the forefront.
- [28:14]
B
Yeah, not so great. So is there actually a place that you sit already that you can cold plunge, you said and have friends in there and beside you said the sauna one is the one that you said.
- [28:23]
A
Not to keep plugging places. But Hume is a place in Venice which has a rooftop and they're building a 20 person cold plunge up there so you can work out and go up to the rooftop in the sun and be in a cold plunge with other people. There's a, there's a get together that every two or three weeks called Coffee and Chill where you go and have a coffee and literally chill that 37 degrees.
- [28:40]
B
So if it's, if you're only in the cold plunge for three minutes. Right. So that's not very speed dating. Yeah. Is it like speed dating?
- [28:48]
A
Yeah.
- [28:48]
B
Oh my God, I love that so much. Okay, tell me other things like that that I'm so glad that you came on here. Tell me other things like that that we haven't. Like people don't know about that.
- [28:58]
A
I mean I, I'm in la, so a lot of the stuff that I do is here. So you know, maybe for those that aren't in la, you'll have to come visit. But like Motion LA is another good one. Again, they have workout, they do these big groups where you work out, you do a cold plunge, they have a bunch of sponsors like Magic Mind and other type of wellness oriented products and services and you meeting people in a environment which isn't revolving around drinking and it's wonderful and you're, you're meeting people that you have similar interests to because when you go to a bar, you know, who knows who's there. But if you go to place that's oriented toward wellness, you're going to meet people with wellness focus.
- [29:32]
B
I know. You know, someone was on the podcast recently. I don't even think it's out yet or maybe by the time this is. It might be. But she was saying like. And then I looked into it and it was like the most popular thing is bird watching. They have clubs now for bird watching.
- [29:47]
A
Is that good for longevity?
- [29:48]
B
No, it's not good. Well, maybe it is. It's nature. You're out in nature, out in the fresh air and you are meeting people. It's a she. There's like a bird. There's bird watching clubs and I'm not Talking for people who are like 110 years old. I'm talking people who are in their 30s, 20s, 40s, whatever, who are going to these bird watching groups and it's the hottest thing in the world.
- [30:08]
A
This is good because now that we're all going to live to 180 years old, we're going to need to find activities that aren't bad on our joints.
- [30:13]
B
Exactly.
- [30:14]
A
Bird watching.
- [30:15]
B
And the bird watching is perfect. Well then tell me what you think about cryotherapy. How is that different than cold plunging?
- [30:21]
A
It's just if it's the amount of penetration into your body. So cryotherapy generally cools down the outer surface of your skin and so isn't getting that deeper level of cooling that you get from a cold plunge. I personally have a really hard time with cold punch and that's probably because I don't meditate. And I get in there and immediately, the second I get in there, I say, I gotta get outta here. This is insane. With breath, work and coaching, I can stand a minute or two. I don't do the six to 10 minutes like some people do. But that really does help reduce stress, reduce your inflammation. Cause at the end of the day, like that's the key is reducing inflammation. All the stuff we're talking about is reducing cortisol levels, reducing inflammation, because that is what erodes your body's function over time.
- [31:05]
B
That's interesting because the cold plunge to me just I feel would increase my cortisol because I'm so nervous and so like it's like the flight or fight thing. Like I don't want to be in there. How, like unless your brain is in the right place, isn't it kind of cortisol producing?
- [31:21]
A
So I think there's a physiological benefit of it and then also a psychological benefit. Learning how to manage your emotion around. I need to get out of this stressful situation right away rather than dealing with it. I think is an entirely different benefit other than the physiological benefit. I'm certainly someone who like feels that way initially with tough situations. But learning how to manage that psychological pressure and overcome it and get through it is something that even if you have that initial cortisol spike, learning how to get through that and control your breathing and get through the experience, anyone can do it. It's just a matter of managing your emotions around it.
- [31:57]
B
That's a good point. I think that's true. I really, I agree with you. What is the newest, latest and greatest that maybe people haven't heard 700 times? I know everyone talks about peptides and everyone talks about the sauna and the cold plunge like we just did ad nauseam. Is there anything on the cutting edge or on the forefront that we can be that you've seen has shown good results that maybe not everybody is talked about ad nauseam?
- [32:23]
A
Yeah, well, I think just to catch people up, you mentioned peptides. Peptides are great. There's hundreds of different peptides for different functions. They're very targeted. There are peptides that can increase growth hormone, they're peptides that can reduce inflammation. There's peptides for sleep, for weight loss, for libido. So for those who don't know a lot about peptides, you know, talk to your doctor and learn about the various different types of peptides that can be beneficial. We talked a lot about NAD and N earlier on. That is something that is kind of a core component of a good longevity strategy to replace that. If you want to go a little bit deeper down the rabbit hole, there's things like exosomes and stem cells, which I'm sure people have heard about if they're interested in biohacking. But you know, the way in which they're being used now are really amazing. So for years people were doing intra articular injections of stem cells and exosomes into the joint. So you, you hurt your knee, you hurt your ankle, you hurt your elbow, you get an injection into the joint from your orthopedic surgeon. And that's great for tissue repair in a very local area. But for an anti aging purposes, you can get an IV of exosomes or stem cells and the cells themselves won't just treat a particular joint, but they'll actually travel throughout your body and regenerate different areas of your body that need regeneration. For those who don't know the difference, stem cells are actual immature cells that are harvested from birth products at the time of birth and haven't differentiated into muscle cells, liver cells, brain cells. So you're giving your body a blank check to then produce whatever cell. So interestingly enough, you might find someone who has back pain and they get a stem cell infusion for their back pain. But those cells will actually travel also to their pancreas and potentially can help reverse some aspects of diabetes. So stem cells as a general category are really emerging as an incredible tool. Exosomes are the byproduct of stem cells. So they're the milieu that a stem cell exists in. It's the growth factors, the rna, the DNA that produce a very potent anti inflammatory effect in the short term, so they don't grow tissue the way that stem cells do, but you use it very focally to help treat inflammation in the short term. So I would say both of those, in addition to the nad, the Niagen, the peptides, are some really helpful anti aging treatments you can look into.
- [34:26]
B
Well, I've been talking more about stem cells recently. I had Dr. Adeel Khan on the podcast. I don't know if you know who he is. You do. He does them out of Cabo, Mexico and Dubai, outside the US because from what I was, I was under the impression of what I was told and what I've read and researched is that, you know, the stem cells that are available in the US are not as, I guess strong maybe or as potent as the ones that you can get out of the U.S. is that true?
- [34:55]
A
The difference is here in the U.S. you're not able to expand stem cells. So what you harvest at the time of birth, that's what you can infuse into someone. Outside of the US There aren't restrictions against expansion. So they can take a group of stem cells, put it in the Petri disk, grow it by a thousand times or ten thousand times and then use those to. So you might find an infusion outside the US with a factor of 10 times as many cells as you will get here. And so in that sense it could be more effective, but the actual cells themselves are the same cells.
- [35:26]
B
Oh, I understand. So that's why it's more potent, right?
- [35:28]
A
Yeah.
- [35:29]
B
Okay.
- [35:29]
A
But there's also an argument to be made that expanding the cells each time you expand do you lose a little efficacy of that additional cell. So I don't haven't looked at the studies directly, but that's essentially the way to think about it.
- [35:41]
B
So I went, he did like the stem cell facial on me. And when I say the word facial, I use that word very lightly. It was no facial. It was no spa facial. I'll tell you. Like I thought I was going to be going and he's going to do this like lovely, like you know, treatment and put some stem cells. No, he takes needles and injects all these stem cells in my face. Have you heard of this before?
- [36:04]
A
Well, microneedling is very popular. Is that not what you had or is it ACT injections?
- [36:09]
B
No, no, he put injected stem cells in my face, like with a needle.
- [36:13]
A
That's pretty invasive. I would say that you get a lot of benefit from micro needling with stem cells or exosomes. And that is micro Punctures in the skin that if you put numbing cream on, you can barely feel the needle. And then 30 minutes later you can get a micro needling treatment done. And it's extremely effective. You get a new glow on your skin after.
- [36:30]
B
But you could do the stem cell like so then you're saying that you can just get micro needling and then just put like, you just like wipe the stem cells on your face. Yeah.
- [36:37]
A
You massage them into the pores that you create.
- [36:41]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah. That's not as potent as like getting needle, needle, needle.
- [36:46]
A
It's also not as painful.
- [36:47]
B
Yeah, it was pretty painful. It was really painful. But shout out to Dr. Adil Khan because his team was amazing and he's doing like some amazing things over there. But I find that that's become a big area that people are talking most. It's regenerative.
- [37:02]
A
I also think, like, mental health is super important to your longevity. And there's a lot of work being done now about using psychedelics in mental health, especially ketamine, which is now FDA approved for the treatment of depression and anxiety and other mental health disorders.
- [37:15]
B
Can you talk about that? Talk about that? Because I know that you work as an addiction detox person as well.
- [37:21]
A
Yeah.
- [37:21]
B
And so can we talk about that and what it like? I thought ketamine was good for depression.
- [37:27]
A
It is. So basically just at a high level, the way that ketamine works is it's a dissociative. So when given either orally through a lozenge or IV or intramuscularly, it causes a sort of self limited, 40, 45 minute experience that you can have someone go through. And it really helps them break negative thought patterns in their brain and then rewire their neural pathways through neuroplasticity in a healthier way. So let's say, for example, you had someone who had PTSD and they've never thought about a certain experience they had, which obviously triggers them and causes them to have trauma. They can now access that thought in that controlled space and rewire their thinking about it. So you can imagine it's like having years of therapy to process something in one setting. And so when done properly with professional guidance, it can be extremely impactful. Same thing with anxiety and depression. If you have these negative thought loops that you can't get out of. Ketamine therapy can help break those thought loops and rewire your thinking in a more healthy way.
- [38:23]
B
Where do you get them?
- [38:24]
A
So there's different ways of taking ketamine. You can do lozenge therapy, which is like self administered. And usually you do it at your home or, you know, another setting like that with or without therapeutic support. And then the more potent way of doing it is via IV or intramuscular therapy. And that's when you have a provider there, a doctor, a nurse practitioner who's got, who's administering the treatment and kind of guiding you through it.
- [38:45]
B
And how, how many sessions do you even need to be effective?
- [38:49]
A
It's cumulative. You can have benefit from just one session. But a lot of the studies have shown it's between four to eight sessions over a two month period. That really gets the most benefit, especially when combined with elements that help you improve your mindfulness. So journaling, meditation, breathwork to help you reframe your mindset in a more healthy way now that you've created that dissociative effect that allows you to recreate your neural pathways.
- [39:14]
B
Have you tried it before?
- [39:15]
A
I have, and it's wonderful.
- [39:16]
B
Really? Which way? Have you done like iv?
- [39:19]
A
I've done several lozenge treatments and I've done one intramuscular treatment. The intramuscular treatment is a lot more potent, so it was really helpful for me to have a provider there with me to guide me through it.
- [39:29]
B
Aren't you a provider?
- [39:31]
A
Yeah, but you're. I wasn't in the right state of mind to provide assistance to myself at the time.
- [39:36]
B
So when you say intramuscular, like, you mean like a, like a needle that go, like, how does it work?
- [39:40]
A
It's. Yeah, it's a gluteal injection in your buttock. And it's essentially the same thing. About a 40, 45 minute experience.
- [39:46]
B
Real. And how long does it last though, like in terms of the effects? The effects.
- [39:50]
A
So you'll feel fine, you know, an hour later, you know, you can go about your day, but the effect can be life changing. You know, if you get process, if you reprocess thoughts, if you have more clarity on events in your life, if you can reframe your thinking about things, you can have long lasting effects in the same way that you could from therapy, which helps you reframe your thinking about certain things. So again, all of this to say, stress, anxiety, depression are one of the biggest contributing factors to aging and lack of longevity. So there are other ways to treat longevity other than the typical things that are out there that people are talking about.
- [40:27]
B
Yeah, it makes sense to me. How about we were talking about addiction, I've heard, and we talked like, is any. Does nad really help addiction?
- [40:35]
A
So I think earlier in the podcast we Talked about some of the factors that cause reduced NAD levels. Stress, anxiety, toxins. As you can imagine, people with addiction issues are encountering. Encountering a higher level of toxins than the regular. The general public. So giving them NAD injections, Niagen infusions can really help them replete those neurotransmitters that are lost, and then the NAD that's lost in. In a way which is probably more impactful for them than someone in the general public who is encountering that level of toxin.
- [41:05]
B
That's so interesting to me. What's the percentage of people it actually helps?
- [41:10]
A
So NAD can help anyone. And I think it would probably be more helpful for someone with addiction problems just given their body's. The harmful effects of toxins on the body. And so rather than just focusing on traditional pharmaceutical medications, which can be toxic in their own right, it's a nice adjunct treatment to pharmacological treatment for anxiety and for mental health issues.
- [41:33]
B
Okay, tell us about something. Okay, so now we got that. So ketamine stem cells, nad, nr Niagen. I love these, like, social. These social mingling with all these, you know, wellness modalities. Anything else that you can talk about that's maybe a little bit more unique that we haven't heard of?
- [41:52]
A
Well, I mean, I think it testing is a part of this too. We've talked a lot about treatment, so let's take a step back and think about making a customized treatment plan for yourself. So I'm a pretty healthy guy. I've been told for years I'm healthy. I actually just did an environmental toxin test and found out that I have mold toxicity, heavy metals, microplastics. And so my treatment plan, it's not a complex treatment plan in the sense of, like, novel treatments, but it's treating the root cause of what's going on inside my body. So for me, I take a binder which helps bind the plastics, and then I go into a sauna three times a week to help get rid of the plastics.
- [42:29]
B
That's amazing.
- [42:30]
A
So I think rather than only thinking about what's the latest and greatest treatment that's out there, think about what can I do to actually treat what's going on inside my body. And testing is important.
- [42:39]
B
So that environmental test that you take, who does it?
- [42:42]
A
There's a company out there which has a. It's called a total tox burden test.
- [42:46]
B
You don't do it, we do it.
- [42:47]
A
And I meant the test itself is produced by them. And so we administer for patients at home. We get the results In a couple weeks. And then we put together a specific treatment plan to treat those specific elements. So for me, it was the B binders that I mentioned, plus sauna. Because of the mold toxicity. I actually ended up moving offices because we found mold in my old office. I moved houses, actually, not because of that, but that helped with the mold. And really making sure to wash my fruits and vegetables carefully because a lot of times they have mold on them. There's a whole host of things you can do. Air purifiers at home, in the office, heavy metals is another thing that I found. So making sure that the fish that you're eating, things like that, is organic, fresh, wild, caught. So for me, that was my specific treatment plan. I'm sure for other people, they. They'll find things that they may not have noticed from their normal primary care doctor.
- [43:30]
B
I really want to take that test.
- [43:32]
A
Yeah, that test is a game changer for sure. Because for so many of us, you go to get the same lab work done every year. The ranges are so large and they're like, oh, you're low normal or high normal. But it's all. It's not getting to the actual cause of what's causing that.
- [43:45]
B
Yeah.
- [43:46]
A
And so for me, I had inflammation in my body and I'm super healthy. No one could explain it, but it was. It wasn't until I did this test that I actually figured out what was causing that.
- [43:54]
B
Yeah.
- [43:54]
A
And that was leading to a whole host of other things.
- [43:56]
B
What was it leading to?
- [43:57]
A
Some reduced kidney function, some reduced. Some elevated liver enzymes, you know, these micro traumas that I was having to my body from all the toxins that I was encountering.
- [44:07]
B
Right. That's an amazing test.
- [44:08]
A
Yeah.
- [44:09]
B
How much, how much capable, how much is it?
- [44:11]
A
It's a few hundred dollars. You know, it's very affordable for people that really are making health their priority and want to get to the root cause of their problems. I think coming at your health from a naturopathic perspective can be very helpful. Rather than just thinking about western medicine, which is focused on disease treatment, disease treatment. There's other ways of thinking about your health in terms of root cause problems, how to assess that. And then treatment is the last step. It's really identifying the root cause problem first before you even get to the treatment.
- [44:39]
B
I think that's such a great test. So it's called the environmental, the total tox burden test.
- [44:44]
A
That's one of them. There's many other tests, you know, people have been talking about for years, but I think are important, like Gut microbiome testing, food sensitivity testing. If, if you are lactose intolerant or lactose insensitive, like I am just having a little pizza or milk doesn't cause me to be violently sick, but it does cause micro inflammation in my gut and things like that are important for people to get and most people don't get that from their right doctor.
- [45:07]
B
That's a good tip. That's a good, that's a good tip actually.
- [45:10]
A
Stool sense, stool microbiome testing, food sensitivity, total tox burden. These are all the markers for inflammation that you will see far before you get to the actual disease process.
- [45:20]
B
Do you notice a difference between how you feel now after doing some solutions to what you found?
- [45:27]
A
A lot of this reduces inflammation so you feel more energy. Do you feel, you feel more clear headed? You feel your lab values will certainly improve because you're taking out that inflammation from your body. You'll feel subjective benefits first and then over time certainly objective benefits in your lab work.
- [45:44]
B
I want to get that test.
- [45:45]
A
That's a great test. I highly recommend it.
- [45:47]
B
Why didn't you ever tell me about it?
- [45:48]
A
We haven't talked in four years, so.
- [45:50]
B
Four years, oh my God. Come on. Four years is not. That's not true, but it is pretty close. Okay, that's a really good. How about genetic testing? You know there's a lot of talk about genetic testing. What do you think about that one?
- [46:01]
A
So genetic testing is on the cusp of really great things, at least at the, in the outset. Now it can be helpful for getting a phenotype for yourself so you understand how your body reacts to certain things. But eventually treatments will be geared toward your specific genetic phenotype or genotype. And that's really when I think it's going to be super impactful. So for now it's helpful just to understand where you, you are in the milieu of genetics and testing. But in the future I think it's going to be targeted to therapies based on your specific gene type.
- [46:32]
B
I like that. Is there any other tests that we like that are on that we should be doing? The environmental test, the genetic test or you're not so much on the genetic right now but like is there anything else?
- [46:44]
A
Well, there are genetic tests that can test you for cancer markers like the gallery test which is incredibly important for people to take. So as part of like a, I think a comprehensive health plan, you obviously need your just basic blocking and tackling your cardiovascular health, your lipid panel, your, your blood sugars, your liver, kidney function and all of those things. I think some of the specialty tests like we talked about, gut microbiome, food sensitivity, environmental toxin. But then you go into your genetic testing like the gallery cancer test, epigenetic tests to test your biological age and whatnot. And then for like prevention purposes, there's the clearly heart scan, which I think is really helpful for most people and that's getting more popular.
- [47:20]
B
Just what's it called?
- [47:21]
A
The clearly heart scan. So it's a cardiovascular test that tests your risk of having a cardiac event. And I think for a long time people, Western medicine was reluctant to have people do expensive testing proactively. And we kind of waited till it was more of a disease stage before for testing and treating. Now I think there's a movement toward, especially as these companies do, direct to consumer testing like clearly and Pre Nouveau is another MRI scan, full body MRI scan that can be helpful for prevention. People are seeking these tests earlier and earlier and earlier in their life, in their lives and finding out things about their body earlier than they have before.
- [47:57]
B
Do you like the body, the full body?
- [47:59]
A
I think incredible. I think people should get it as part of their not annual physical, but at least every five years starting at the age of, you know, 40 or so, just to give yourself a baseline to know what's going on in your body. It's a, it's a diagnostic test that can track changes over time. So even if you don't find something that is pinpoint disease, you'll find changes over time if you do it on a consistent basis.
- [48:19]
B
That's good information. I like that. Abe, thank you for being on the, on the podcast.
- [48:23]
A
This is great. I'll see you. What like 20, 28 or something like that?
- [48:27]
B
Yeah, like, yeah, that, that works out well. We'll do it. We'll do an every four year check in.
- [48:32]
A
Well, the good news, we're going to be aging backwards now, so we'll actually get younger the next time we do this podcast.
- [48:36]
B
Good. You won't recognize me. You'll probably think I'm Sydney.
- [48:38]
A
Perfect.
- [48:39]
B
Yeah, perfect. Where do people find more about. You have like nine, seven, like so many companies, you've concierge, MD, drip, hydration, Dr. A. Malkin. Where else? Like, what else do you have?
- [48:49]
A
I think that's fine. They can find.
- [48:50]
B
You said one more wellness something.
- [48:52]
A
Oh, wellness M.D. yeah, that's an interesting company. Like I've learned a lot in growing the businesses that I run myself and I've kind of used that to help other people launch their health businesses and scale them across the country. So that's another way people can find me through WellnessMD group.
- [49:05]
B
Where can't we find you? Or, you know, if you follow you on Instagram, you look like you're, like, a travel influencer, because I swear, every. You're, like, jumping off a cliff in Fiji, and then you're, like, jumping out of a plane, and I don't know where in, like, where were you? Columbia? I don't know. You're always like, don't you want your.
- [49:20]
A
Doctor to do that?
- [49:20]
B
Of course. Yes, I would. Yes. But then when I. When I call him, he has to. Like, he's not unavailable. I'd be kind of. Thank God you have a great team of people who work here. Like Neil.
- [49:29]
A
Yes. We should get Neil on the podcast.
- [49:31]
B
We should. Neil's the one with the real brains here, right? He's.
- [49:33]
A
You can ask while you're burning cosmetic.
- [49:35]
B
Questions I could he for, so. By the way, guys, Neil is Abe's partner. He's a dermatologist. He's very nice, he's very knowledgeable, and I like him a lot.
- [49:43]
A
Glad we got a plug in.
- [49:44]
B
Yeah, Neil. There you go. Okay. It's true. All right, Abe. Thank you. And don't be a stranger.
- [49:52]
A
Come on.
- [49:52]
B
Okay, bye.