Episode 402: Liron Kayvan: The Truth about Plant-Based Diets + Is Creatine Crucial for Aging?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle – Episode 402: Liron Kayvan: The Truth about Plant-Based Diets + Is Creatine Crucial for Aging?

Host: Jen Cohen
Guest: Liron Kayvan
Release Date: November 29, 2024
Duration: Approximately 20 minutes

---

I. Introduction

In Episode 402 of Habits and Hustle, host Jen Cohen welcomes fitness expert and gym owner Liron Kayvan for an insightful discussion on the role of creatine in fitness and aging, as well as the implications of plant-based diets on overall health.

---

II. Creatine: Benefits and Scientific Backing ([02:16] - [07:18])

Liron Kayvan opens the conversation by highlighting the robustness of creatine as a supplement:

Liron ([02:36]): "Creatine is the most scientifically studied supplement ever. Genuinely. I think you can fact check me on this."

Jen agrees, underscoring creatine’s extensive research support:

Jen ([02:46]): "Creatine is the most science-backed, most studied supplement I think on the market right now, by far."

Liron elaborates on creatine’s medical applications beyond fitness, including its use in increasing birth weights and enhancing cognitive functions.

---

III. Concerns about Creatine for Women ([03:19] - [06:32])

Jen expresses common apprehensions regarding creatine supplementation among women:

Jen ([03:19]): "Even though I know that it's the most studied supplement... I'm scared of creatine... I feel like creatine will make me gain weight."

Liron addresses these fears by clarifying that creatine does not affect fat cells but instead promotes water retention in lean muscle mass:

Liron ([05:04]): "It doesn't touch your fat cells. It only pulls in water... into your lean body mass."

He reassures that creatine won’t cause excessive muscle gain in women, debunking myths about its effects:

Liron ([05:45]): "If you think you're going to swell up and start looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger... realize that type of muscularity is near impossible for a natural woman."

---

IV. Natural Sources of Creatine ([06:32] - [08:28])

Jen queries about natural ways to increase creatine without supplements:

Jen ([07:27]): "What are some of the ways that we can naturally increase our creatine without taking a creatine supplement?"

Liron emphasizes that creatine is abundant in red meat and integral to our natural physiology:

Liron ([07:36]): "It's natural, it's safe, it boosts your muscle capability and it boosts your health."

He argues that a diet rich in red meat typically provides sufficient creatine, making supplementation unnecessary for those who consume adequate animal protein.

---

V. Plant-Based Diets vs. Animal-Based Diets ([08:19] - [14:11])

The discussion pivots to plant-based diets, with Jen expressing skepticism about their ability to provide all necessary nutrients without supplementation:

Jen ([09:05]): "Unless you know how to do food combinations really well as a vegan, you're going to be missing out on fundamental nutrients."

Liron concurs, suggesting that plant-based diets often require additional supplements like creatine to meet nutritional needs:

Liron ([08:25]): "Creatine along with a whole host of other supplements would need to be taken by a plant-based person because it's an unnatural diet, essentially."

They discuss the challenges plant-based individuals face in maintaining muscle mass and overall health, with Liron highlighting that some plant-based athletes may rely on steroids or have built their muscle mass prior to adopting a plant-based lifestyle.

---

VI. Muscle Mass for Aging and Longevity ([14:11] - [17:46])

Jen underscores the importance of muscle maintenance for aging gracefully:

Jen ([15:16]): "Muscle is the answer and the... secret sauce to overall longevity and to aging."

Liron adds that maintaining muscle mass is crucial for reducing mortality in the elderly:

Liron ([16:22]): "The leading cause of death is lack of muscle. Right? Well, in elderly, yes."

They discuss strategies to preserve muscle mass, emphasizing the role of heavy weightlifting and adequate protein intake.

---

VII. Supplement Recommendations and Dosage ([17:46] - [18:30])

The conversation turns to practical advice on creatine supplementation. Liron recommends dosages based on dietary intake:

Liron ([18:02]): "Yes, five grams for men, three grams for women."

Jen clarifies that those who consume sufficient animal protein may not need to supplement:

Jen ([18:14]): "And for people who are regularly eating red meat, who regularly eat animal protein, to take the creatine supplement is not as necessary."

---

VIII. Final Thoughts and Additional Supplements ([19:12] - [20:00])

In the concluding segment, Jen and Liron briefly discuss other supplements like Rhodiola, highlighting its benefits for stress adaptation and focus:

Jen ([19:12]): "Rhodiola is the natural herb for, like, what people use for, like, for ADHD."

Liron shares his personal affinity for Rhodiola, mentioning its quick-acting benefits in promoting balance and stress resilience.

The episode wraps up with Jen encouraging listeners to subscribe and leave reviews, emphasizing the value of feedback.

---

Key Takeaways

• Creatine is Highly Researched: Recognized as the most scientifically studied supplement, safe for both men and women when used appropriately.

• Benefits Beyond Muscle Building: Enhances cognitive functions, supports medical needs like increasing birth weights, and aids in aging healthily.

• Women’s Concerns Addressed: Creatine does not cause fat gain; instead, it supports lean muscle mass without leading to excessive muscularity.

• Dietary Sources: Adequate intake of red meat typically fulfills creatine requirements, reducing the need for supplementation.

• Challenges of Plant-Based Diets: Necessitates careful nutrient planning and possible supplementation to avoid deficiencies and maintain muscle mass.

• Importance of Muscle for Aging: Maintaining muscle mass through weightlifting and proper nutrition is crucial for longevity and reducing mortality in older adults.

• Supplement Guidelines: Recommended creatine doses are 5 grams for men and 3 grams for women, primarily for those not consuming sufficient animal protein.

---

Notable Quotes

• Liron ([02:36]): "Creatine is the most scientifically studied supplement ever."

• Jen ([03:19]): "I'm scared of creatine... I feel like creatine will make me gain weight."

• Liron ([05:45]): "That type of muscularity is near impossible for a natural woman."

• Liron ([08:28]): "Creatine... boosts your muscle capability and it boosts your health."

• Jen ([15:16]): "Muscle is the answer and the... secret sauce to overall longevity and to aging."

• Liron ([18:02]): "Five grams for men, three grams for women."

---

This episode of Habits and Hustle provides a comprehensive look into the role of creatine in fitness and health, debunking myths, addressing gender-specific concerns, and contrasting dietary approaches. Liron Kayvan’s expertise offers valuable guidance for listeners navigating supplement choices and diet plans to achieve optimal health and longevity.

Transcript

[Tony Robbins]

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

[Leron]

You're listening to Habits and Hustle.

[Tony Robbins]

Crush it. Hey friends. You're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled.

[Unknown Sponsor]

Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therassage. Their Trilight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go and I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach, cramps, shoulder, ankle, Red light therapy is my go to. Plus it also has amazing anti aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therassage Trilight everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable and it's really effective. Head over to therassage.com right now and use code BEBOLD for 15% off. This code will work site wide. Again, head over to Therassage T H E R A s a g e.com and use code bebold for 15% off any of their products.

[Tony Robbins]

Welcome to Fitness Friday. We have my friend Leron with us.

[Leron]

Hello.

[Tony Robbins]

Another fitness trainer, slash enthusiast, slash soccer.

[Leron]

Player, last gym owner. We just opened a brand new gym on Westwood.

[Tony Robbins]

Slash gym owner. Congrats. Yeah, I love that. What's it called?

[Leron]

Beyond Fitness La.

[Tony Robbins]

I love it.

[Leron]

We might rebrand at some point, but for now it's Beyond Fitness La.

[Tony Robbins]

Beyond Fitness La. Okay, we're going to talk about creatine. Creatine's all the rage now. This is the supplement that everyone talks about. Do you think there is a way to supplement creatine that's better than others and how much should people actually take?

[Leron]

Okay, so I'm going to give a very nuanced and boring answer. No, it's not boring, but it's nuanced.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay.

[Leron]

There's a pro and con. The pro is I think creatine is the most scientifically studied supplement ever. Genuinely. I think you can fact check me on this, but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, I'm going to say that again. Creatine is the most science backed, most studied supplement I think on the market right now, by far.

[Leron]

I think of all time. And it's not just studied by like companies trying to sell it to the masses. This is like very deep medical practice. If a woman needs to get the birth weight of their baby up, if they're like, you know, dangerously low birth weight, they'll take creatine. I know people take it for all sorts of brain.

[Tony Robbins]

This is what I want to talk about. So let's just back it up a second, okay? Because creatine scares me. I'm a woman, I'm scared of creatine. Even though I know that it's the most studied supplement. I know that it helps build muscle. I know that there's amazing research that proves that's great for your cognitive abilities, your brain health. However, I'm not alone when I feel, and I don't know if it's just like this like psychological thing that creatine will make me gain weight. I feel like that to me because I've seen in my life, well, listen, I've seen in my life because it's, it's been predominantly used by men, okay? And up until very recently, right, it's really been like a man supplement. Like every guy I know would take like a scoop of creatine and put it in his shake, right? To get like, you know, to get super mass and get like jacked.

[Leron]

Protein used to be like that, but now we realize protein is for everyone and everyone needs more protein, essentially.

[Tony Robbins]

True, true. But how do women get over the psychological hump that creatine will make them fat?

[Leron]

So a couple of things. As I was saying before, it's the most scientifically studied supplement ever. And it was studied not for like esthetic muscular fitness goals, it was studied for medical things. So this is safe. And they wouldn't give it for, give it to women if it made you unhealthy. So that's the first thing you need to say about it. Second, it won't make you fat because it doesn't touch your fat cells. It only touches, it only pulls in water, like hydrogen ions, water into your lean body mass. Because fat is hydro, whatever, hydrophobic, doesn't like water. They fat and water separate. So basically it's a water based supplement. It pulls water into your cells, primarily your muscle cells, so it gives a volume to your muscle. If you're worried that you're going to swell up, so you definitely won't get fat. That's, that's just something you don't have to worry about at all. If you think you're going to swell up and start Looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Realize, like, that type of muscularity is near impossible for a natural woman. Women who look overly muscular have either been training for 10, 15, 20 years or they're taking steroids, which a lot of women do. So a lot of these fitness people you see at the gym or on social media, the females are taking low doses of male androgenic anabolic steroids. So you have to realize the smoke and mirrors there. Creatine is a supplement that will not touch your fat cells at all. So you don't have to worry about getting fat at all. It will volumize your lean body mass, which is basically every part of your body that's not fat based. So that's everything. So it's your eyeballs, it's your muscles.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay. I believe that it does. You just said yourself you can retain water on it in your lean body, in your. Okay, but still, if you're retaining water, and that will make you bloated. And not one girl I know, not one girl I know wants to get take that risk of feeling bloated. It's just, it's human nature. I don't care what you say. It's just human nature. So how can we take creatine and lower our chances of getting bloated?

[Leron]

So the second point going on from that, the fact that it's safe and it won't make you fat, is it's also natural. So creatine is a natural part of red meat, which is what we are. We are red meat. It's part of every muscle fiber in nature. Okay, so it would be abundant. It's abundant in the meats that we eat, or at least red meat. It's naturally there and it's part of every. All the energy systems of our body use creatine phosphate. Again, I haven't done any of this amp stuff for years, so I'm probably butchering it. But it's essentially part of a natural fundamental part of our energy system. So the idea that you shouldn't have creatine in your body is another complete myth. You need creatine in your body. We just have it naturally.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, so, okay, we have it naturally. What are some of the ways that we can naturally increase our creatine without taking a creatine supplement? That's.

[Leron]

That's the other side. So I saw it says this was nuance. These are the positives for creatine.

[Tony Robbins]

You didn't give me anything. You just kind of talked a lot.

[Leron]

So the positive screen. Let me sum it up, okay?

[Tony Robbins]

No, be much more succinct.

[Leron]

So positives creatine are, it's natural, it's safe, it boosts your muscle capability and it boosts your health. The negatives for taking creatine is you don't need to. All you need to do is eat red meat and eat enough red meat in nature. We've evolved to eat red meat. I'm sure you've had plant based people on here. Don't care. We've evolved to eat red meat. That's how we've evolved. It's part of our evolution. You can look at our digestive tract, you can look at our teeth, you can look at our brains, you can look at the size of our colon, we can look at anything. You can look at archeological records. It all adds up. Anyone who tells you that we are not meat based, meaning a sizable amount of our calories in nature should come and we would thrive on a meat based diet talking out of their ass.

[Tony Robbins]

So you think people who are on a plant based diet, they should be taking creatine? Absolutely.

[Leron]

I would imagine as a, I would imagine that creatine along with a whole host of other supplements would need to be taken by a plant based person because it's an unnatural diet, essentially. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm just saying it's an unnatural diet and it's not the optimal.

[Tony Robbins]

It's crazy that like you have to like have all these precursors now to talk about people who are plant based versus animal based because you, it's a little bit woke.

[Leron]

You might get canceled. Yeah, no, it's not the whole woke.

[Tony Robbins]

No. Like you'll literally offend somebody if you say you have to eat meat. Like right when you said, oh my God, we've been like evolved. We've evolved to be somebody who eats. Who eats? Yeah, who eats red meat. Whatever. I literally, in my head, in my head while you were saying it, I was like, oh my God, he's going to get in trouble. But to me that is so.

[Leron]

It's politicized, it's so, it's socialized, but it shouldn't be.

[Tony Robbins]

It should be like this is your opinion, that's what you think. By the way, I'm a person that needs to have animal protein as well or else I feel starving. I, I have a friend, actually, Darren Olian, who's one of my best friends who is plant based.

[Leron]

I have best friends who are plant based.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay. Vegan. And it works for him. Like he looks amazing.

[Leron]

Does he take Supplementally, maybe a couple.

[Tony Robbins]

He takes like true Niagen Nad. He takes. I'm sure he takes a bunch of other things I don't know about. But the reason why I'm bringing him up is like he has a lot of lean muscle mass. He looks good, but he's probably one of the only people I know who are vegan, who look that good and who feel to me like that he's super healthy. I could be totally wrong.

[Leron]

He is probably really, really healthy, really dedicated and has all his ducks in a row and would probably be 5 or 10% better if he ate me.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know.

[Leron]

I don't know.

[Tony Robbins]

I. Listen, you and me both. I believe that like Mo. I would say everybody's different, but I will say the majority of people in my world or I've meet because I meet a lot of people that they saw a significant difference in their health, in their energy, the way they feel when they incorporated animal protein back into their diet when they were.

[Leron]

Especially women, which is another thing we talk about women, Women, if anything, need. I wouldn't say they need more, but we know like women lose their period. I know, I know. Girls, I know, I know a lot. They lose their periods when they go plant based. You even have to take iron supplements. What. What is the most. What is the most?

[Tony Robbins]

Like, this is the problem with it, I think. Well, it's. But it's ironic, right? I find this to be really interesting because the problem is unless you know how to do food combinations really well as a vegan, you're going to be missing out on math.

[Leron]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

You're going to be. No, you're going to be missing out on fundamental nutrients because you don't, like, you have to like know that beans plus a rice equals a protein. But if you have to be doing like, if you are a bad math student or you don't understand how combinations work, please add animal protein to your diet and make it simple for yourself and call it a day.

[Leron]

Yeah. If you don't know, then just like stick to just moderation and you don't have to take my word for it. Just eat at least a little bit of animal protein.

[Tony Robbins]

Well, I, I find that you become. You can look very emaciated and unhealthy and gray. Like there's a, there's a place in la. Oh my God. Gray or great, great gray. Like the color gray. Yellow.

[Leron]

It's a gray.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. Not great. Jaundice. There's a place I used to go all the time. It was a big. It was so hilarious. It was called the Co Op. It was like this grocery store in Santa Monica. It's probably still there.

[Leron]

Some, like, hippie thing.

[Tony Robbins]

I would go, yeah, it's very hippie dippy. And I would take. My mom would come visit me from Canada, and I would. We would go there to get, like, you know, after the gym, and I would take her there. And my mother was so perplexed because she looked around, it's supposed to be, like, a health food store. And she's like, why does everyone here look like they were, like, jaundice out of the hospital? They were like. They all looked very, like, weak and either too thin or, like, just unhealthy. And, like, the irony is that, like, that's, like, a health food store that's supposed to be. It was supposed to be, like, for all the, you know, where all the healthy people looked, but yet, like, Ralph down the street had way more of a healthy. Like, a healthy person looking.

[Leron]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

I just find a lot of this stuff to be so absurd. Right. And I don't know, I just found that to be funny.

[Leron]

I did 10 parts on my podcast about this, about that whole. Just the plug.

[Tony Robbins]

Your podcast on my podcast isn't.

[Leron]

Doesn't everyone do that? Literally everyone do that. First of all, that's what I'm supposed to do. Second of all, no, genuinely, I don't. I've just done this to death. Like, I've. I've done 10 parts on this, and I. I explain and I. I kind of meander away from the. The actual kind of lie itself that meat is bad for you, and you kind of trace the roots of it, and you start to see, like, big pharma and the big food companies and, like, people are benefiting from this. And again, we were talking about business. We're talking about, like, capitalism business. And, like, there are people profiting off of this idea that you shouldn't eat meat. You know, and they also. People profiting off the idea that you should be sick. Like, being sick is very profitable in America. Hugely profitable.

[Tony Robbins]

It's very profitable. But at the same time, if you say that, just to play devil's advocate, then there should be people profiting on the meat side, saying that you should eat meat, because, I mean, you have.

[Leron]

The meat industry and you have people.

[Tony Robbins]

On both sides who profit. I'm talking from actual personal experience.

[Leron]

Yeah. Like, neither of us are going. I'm not. I'm not going to make a scent off of people eating meat.

[Tony Robbins]

No. But what I'M saying is like, I know when I'm not eating protein, like, like animal protein, I have less energy, I can't work out as hard, I don't look as good. Like, how do you build lean muscle without eating more like animal protein? I, it's very difficult.

[Leron]

It's very difficult. Like you need, I mean, I reckon if you're on steroids, you probably don't need as much. So my theory, and this is like maybe wild and whatever, but like, I think a lot of the plant based athletes were probably either built their muscle when they weren't plant based. So for example, Arnold Schwarzenegger, like Arnold Schwarzenegger spent 70 years eating three steaks a day and then he goes, oh, you know, you don't need so much meat. Like you can go live meatless Mondays or whatever. That's a horrible impression, but actually a good one. But it's too like, it's like, okay, well, it's all well and good, you being 70 years old and having dominated like Hollywood and the bodybuilding industry, eating three steaks a day and being on steroids. But now you're, now you can say go meatless Monday. Like it's too late. If you, if you did that in your prime, fine. So I think one is they either built the muscle with the meat and then once they were just maintaining it, they weren't plant based and so that was okay. Two is they're on steroids.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, I think that's a good. Okay. By the way, I think that's a great impression. I also think it's. But go meatless. I think having the idea of meatless Mondays is a fine thing because I.

[Leron]

Do it sometimes on Saturdays. I actually do meatless days.

[Tony Robbins]

I have no problem with that because like it's like a one day or two days a week, you're not eating it. But as like a general rule where you're just, you're like excluding meat from your diet completely. It's crazy because this is the bottom line. Muscle is the answer and the, I guess the secret sauce to overall longevity and to aging.

[Leron]

Well, mental health. Yeah. Yes, it's an organ.

[Tony Robbins]

No, and especially as you're aging, especially middle age, you need to have muscle on your body.

[Leron]

The leading cause of death is lack of muscle. Right? Well, in elderly, yes.

[Tony Robbins]

But let me finish what I was going to say. I was going to say that if muscle is the main driver for longevity and for aging well. Right. And you need to keep muscle on and as you get older, it's harder and harder and Harder. You're depleting and you're losing so much muscle. How much is it a year just by. By depends on by overall age. Right. So the problem is how do you keep it on? What's the easiest way to keep it on?

[Leron]

Weight lift.

[Tony Robbins]

Besides heavy weightlifting? You got to, you got to lift weights heavy and you got to eat a lot of protein. Yeah, a fuck ton of protein.

[Leron]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

So how I'm going to. I am.

[Leron]

Creatine is very good for aging too. Just to pull it back to creatine. But I think where. What I was going to say about the downside of taking creatine is you don't actually need it. It's. It's present in red meat. It's the reason why it's so studied and the reason why it's so pumped by the sports industry, by the, you know, the muscle building industry, by even the medical industry is because in nature we would have it just as part of our, our body, our makeup. Because we would eat, you know, a healthy society would eat a good amount of red meat. We would hunt and eat a good amount of red meat. We would be getting in all the creatine we need naturally. But in modern society where we're divorced from red meat, where most people maybe eat red meat once a week or something like that, then we need to supplement. The only reason why we need to supplement is because we're divorced from our natural habitat and our natural diet. That's the only reason. And the reason why creatine is good for your hair and good for your muscles and good for your pregnancy and good for your. When you're old and you have Parkinson's or whatever. Right. I'm throwing things out. The reason why it's good for everything is because it's such a fundamental part of how we are. It's a building block of everything. So it's going to have all these benefits aside from just muscle gain. Right. Muscle gain is interesting, but it's just one thing.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay. How much do you take? Like, okay, because for a woman, me, Nothing.

[Leron]

But yes. How much should someone take?

[Tony Robbins]

Oh my God. So you, after all that big yelling and screaming about creatine, you're not taking it? But I eat meat. But so you don't take creatine as a supplement because you're getting it from your red meat?

[Leron]

Yes.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, so let's say this for someone who's not eating red meat, maybe they're just eating chicken and turkey, let's just say, or salmon or whatever. Then they should be Taking a creatine supplement, definitely.

[Leron]

Five grams for men, three grams for women.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay. And for people who are regularly eating red. Red meat, who regularly eat animal protein, to take the creatine supplement is not as necessary. Is that what you're saying?

[Leron]

Yes.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, thank you.

[Leron]

Exactly what I'm saying.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, good. Thank you. All right, guys. That is. And the end. Okay, so, by the way, should we do this shot of Magic Mind before we leave? Yeah, speaking of it, have you ever done this before? Yeah, I should have done this before.

[Leron]

I gotta go build my gym right now. I need some Magic Mind.

[Tony Robbins]

Oh, I should get you some. They're delicious. They're my favorite shots because it's a good for. Great energy and great for focus. We should have done it before the podcast, but Ashwagandha.

[Leron]

Yeah, There's a lot of good stuff in here.

[Tony Robbins]

A lot of great stuff.

[Leron]

Rhodiola. I love rhodiola. Huge fan of Rodola.

[Tony Robbins]

You know what rhodiola is, by the way? Rhodiola is the natural herb for, like, what people use for, like, for adhd. Like, it's like a natural. What do you call it? It's a natural Adderall. That's what I heard.

[Leron]

Really?

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. It helps you, like, really with, like, your focus and your attention.

[Leron]

I've been. I've been. Actually, I've been on the rhodiola tip for a while. I love it. I've always loved it.

[Tony Robbins]

Well, why do you take it, then?

[Leron]

I think I initially it was for stress adaptation, but now I take it as a te. Just because I like it. But it's got a. Just general. I think. Yeah, mostly it's like stress adaptation, but it's got this general feeling. Like you feel it pretty quick. Like you can. Like, I can drink a tea of rhodiola and I can feel it within half an hour.

[Tony Robbins]

But what are you feeling like?

[Leron]

I just sort of. I know you don't like this word, but balance. Like, I just feel like I'm.

[Tony Robbins]

Drink your. Just drink your shot so we can finish this podcast.

[Leron]

You're not gonna do it?

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, I'm gonna do. I did, like two already today. I forgot. I can't take more than two.

[Leron]

Down the hatch are we live, by the way? We're just rambling.

[Tony Robbins]

No, go. Go ahead.

[Leron]

Cheers.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. And by the way, guys, before we say goodbye, I should say at the beginning of the podcast, but if you're still here listening, always. If you guys can leave me a review, subscribe if you haven't. It really helps with the podcast. So I always am remiss in saying that to people. So I'm gonna. Even though I said the end of the podcast, subscribe. Yeah. Like and for like and subscribe. Yes. Thank you. Bye.