Episode 404: Liron Kayvan on ADD: Misdiagnosis, Overmedication and Strategies for Channeling it for Success

Summary

Habits and Hustle: Episode 404 Summary

Title: Liron Kayvan on ADD: Misdiagnosis, Overmedication and Strategies for Channeling it for Success

Hosts: Jen Cohen and Habit Nest
Guest: Liron Kayvan
Release Date: December 6, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 404 of Habits and Hustle, host Jen Cohen welcomes Liron Kayvan, a soccer player and fitness trainer, to discuss Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), its misdiagnosis, the rampant overmedication, and strategies to harness its potential for success. The conversation delves deep into personal experiences, societal implications, and practical advice for individuals navigating life with ADD.

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The Myth of Balance

Key Discussion: Liron and Jen initiate the conversation by challenging the conventional notion of balance in life. Liron argues that striving for balance can induce anxiety and is often an unattainable goal.

Notable Quotes:

• Liron (02:25): “Balance is a misnomer. It doesn't exist. Putting pressure on yourself to achieve it just creates anxiety.”
• Tony Robbins (02:53): “You're never in that balanced state. You’re always unbalanced in some way.”

Insights:

• The pursuit of balance can lead to perpetual feelings of inadequacy.
• Successful individuals often exhibit a form of healthy obsession rather than balanced lifestyles.

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ADD as a Superpower

Key Discussion: Liron shares his perspective on ADD, viewing it not as a hindrance but as a unique strength that can drive passion and success when properly channeled.

Notable Quotes:

• Liron (05:01): “ADD is a superpower. It might hinder administrative tasks, but it fuels the passion and obsession needed to excel in areas you love.”
• Tony Robbins (04:06): “There’s actually a gene for ADD that was adaptive in our ancestors but is now maladaptive in the modern environment.”

Insights:

• Historical context of ADD suggests it was advantageous for hunter-gatherer societies.
• Modern environments, particularly academic settings, may not cater to the strengths of individuals with ADD, leading to misdiagnosis and unnecessary medication.

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Misdiagnosis and Overmedication

Key Discussion: The conversation shifts to the increasing rates of ADD diagnoses, especially among children, and the consequent overreliance on medication.

Notable Quotes:

• Tony Robbins (08:54): “When you start a child on medication, especially for something that might have benefited them in real life, it can lead to lifelong dependency.”
• Liron (09:01): “Putting children on medication at a young age dims their unique traits and makes them reliant on pills for decades.”

Insights:

• Overdiagnosis may be driven by societal pressures and a lack of alternative coping mechanisms.
• Medication can become a crutch, preventing individuals from developing natural resilience and problem-solving skills.

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The Cultural Shift: From Resilience to Dependency

Key Discussion: Liron critiques the contemporary trend of excessive therapy and emotional venting, arguing that it undermines the development of personal resilience, especially in children.

Notable Quotes:

• Liron (12:59): “Therapy has become a first-world solution, turning parents into the ones with problems rather than fostering resilience in children.”
• Tony Robbins (13:25): “This tendency speaks more to the parents’ struggles than the children’s actual issues.”

Insights:

• The reliance on therapy and diagnosis sidesteps the core issue of empowering individuals to overcome challenges independently.
• Economic factors, such as the high cost of therapy, further exacerbate the problem, making it an exclusionary practice.

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Social Media's Impact on ADD and Modern Attention Spans

Key Discussion: The dialogue explores how social media and the quest for instant gratification are exacerbating ADD symptoms and shortening attention spans across society.

Notable Quotes:

• Tony Robbins (16:07): “Social media is hijacking the dopamine system, making people more ADD.”
• Liron (16:24): “Brains have become accustomed to instant gratifications, leading to a decline in delayed gratification and sustained attention.”

Insights:

• The omnipresence of social media platforms like TikTok and Instagram fosters a dependency on quick rewards, detracting from meaningful engagement and productivity.
• This shift complicates the ability of individuals with ADD to thrive, as their natural tendencies are further amplified by environmental factors.

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Strategies for Channeling ADD for Success

Key Discussion: Despite the challenges, Liron provides actionable strategies to harness the unique strengths associated with ADD, transforming potential obstacles into assets.

Notable Quotes:

• Liron (15:18): “It's all about how you frame it in your head and how you reframe it. Action is what moves the needle.”
• Tony Robbins (15:33): “Validate who you are and accept it. That’s how you harness your power and do things differently.”

Insights:

• Emphasizing self-acceptance and reframing ADD as a strength can significantly enhance personal and professional outcomes.
• Developing tailored strategies that cater to hyperfocus and passion-driven pursuits can lead to exceptional achievements.

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The Business of Trends and Perception

Key Discussion: The conversation transitions to the influence of societal trends and celebrity endorsements on consumer behavior, tying it back to broader themes of perception versus reality.

Notable Quotes:

• Liron (29:12): “Overpricing creates a perceived value, tricking people into thinking they're getting something extraordinary when it's just perception.”
• Tony Robbins (32:12): “Perception is reality, but in reality, it’s just a facade.”

Insights:

• Modern marketing techniques exploit human desires for status and instant rewards, often at the expense of genuine value.
• Understanding the mechanics behind these trends can help individuals make more informed and mindful decisions, rather than succumbing to superficial incentives.

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Conclusion

Episode 404 of Habits and Hustle offers a nuanced exploration of ADD, challenging common misconceptions and highlighting the potential for individuals to turn perceived weaknesses into strengths. Liron Kayvan’s candid discussion with Jen Cohen underscores the importance of self-awareness, resilience, and strategic reframing in overcoming societal and physiological challenges associated with ADD. By addressing misdiagnosis, overmedication, and the detrimental effects of modern societal trends, the episode empowers listeners to harness their unique traits for sustained success and fulfillment.

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Connect with Liron Kayvan:

• Instagram: @BeyondFitnessLA

Note: The episode concludes with light-hearted banter between Jen and Liron about the lack of focus on fitness topics, promising future discussions on the subject.

Transcript

[Tony Robbins]

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle.

[Liron]

Crush it. Hey friends. You're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up.

[Unknown]

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[Liron]

Also use it for.

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[Liron]

Okay. Hi guys. Welcome to Fitness Friday. And I have my special guest today is Liron and. Hello, Liron. Liron is a soccer player slash fitness trainer who is someone I always work out. Well, I used to work out with you. Did I ever really?

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, yeah, we worked out. We did.

[Liron]

We talk about fitness a lot.

[Tony Robbins]

We talk mostly about fitness and mostly about just other stuff in general. Yeah, we don't. That's probably only 5% of our conversations are about fitness.

[Liron]

Oh my God. You know what, that's actually true. I don't even think we actually do talk about fitness very little.

[Tony Robbins]

We just gloss over it and just carry on.

[Liron]

Which is funny because I, when we.

[Tony Robbins]

Do, we record it.

[Liron]

You know, I was going to say usually, like we actually only talk about it during these like Fitness Friday episodes. We don't really talk about it like outside of the Fitness Friday episodes.

[Tony Robbins]

Well, I think it's important to have a life too.

[Liron]

Good point.

[Tony Robbins]

Balance.

[Liron]

Balance. Okay, first of all, balance is not. There's such a misnomer. I don't even think balance exists.

[Tony Robbins]

No, it doesn't.

[Liron]

It's a.

[Tony Robbins]

It's something you can strive towards But I don't think ever you ever actually get it.

[Liron]

I just think that when you put that pressure on yourself that, oh, we have to strive for balance. Balance, balance. That, that word, balance, right. It gives people anxiety, like, oh, I'm not.

[Tony Robbins]

Am I balanced? Yeah. Have I got. Am I? Yeah. Is my work, life balance perfect? Am I playing enough? Am I working enough? Like, no. Yeah. You're never in that state.

[Liron]

It never happens.

[Tony Robbins]

You're always unbalanced in some way.

[Liron]

Well, I think anything that you. I like. I don't know, maybe this isn't for everybody, but for me, when I like something, I go so far into it and I'm so hyp focused that like there is no such thing as balance.

[Tony Robbins]

I think most successful people have that too. They get a little bit obsessed about things. Yeah, it's like a healthy obsession.

[Liron]

Well, I think a part of it too is I probably have a little bit of OCD in general, to be honest. And add, the combo of ADD and OCD makes you hyper focused on and become obsessed. Like I believe anything you want to be really good at, you have to have a level of obsession and audacity. The combination of obsession and on and audacity is very, very necessary.

[Tony Robbins]

This is your next book, Jo. Maybe, maybe how to succeed with add.

[Liron]

How to succeed. Well, I think that ADD is a precursor for obsession. Right.

[Tony Robbins]

There's actually a study, sorry to interject, but there was a study that said that there's a gene for adding. And what they found is that that gene, when you look at like primitive people, like tribesmen and you know, people cavemen essentially, like modern day hunter gatherers, that gene made them really good at hunting and gathering. So it was actually very adaptive gene and it made them very successful in their trial. What do you mean? Like GNP403, you know what I mean? It's a very specific gene that is either associated or causes add. So they have mapped this out, they can see where ADD is in the brain and some people are predisposed towards it. But that was adaptive, meaning that was beneficial in our natural environment. It's only in the modern school system and so on and so forth where it becomes like bad maladaptive.

[Liron]

That's so interesting because for the longest, like first of all, if you really look at people who have add, most of the people who have, that I know who have ADD grew up, they may have been really bad students because they didn't, they didn't thrive in that academic school environment, but they thrived in, in like their entrepreneurial endeavors, their career and other things they can actually work. Like, to me, ADD is like a superpower. Right. Like, does it like hinder my life with terms of administrative work and getting shit done operationally? Yes. But if I didn't have my addness, I wouldn't have been able to have gone as far as I've gone. Because when you have it and you find something that you're super in love with or obsessed with or passionate about, you're able to like focus so highly on that thing and go so into it and it, it, it, you basically like supersede all these other things because of it.

[Tony Robbins]

Do you think that you get bored easily?

[Liron]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

And do you think that's a good thing?

[Liron]

No, no. I think there's pros and cons to both Me being bored easily has pushed me to be able to, you know, seek and be curious to find and do other things. But it's also hindered me and hurt me in other things where probably being a little bored would have helped me. Right. Like, you know what happens a lot with people like me, people who have add, you start a lot of things and you don't finish them. Right. That's a big thing. Right. Or you know, relationships, like you are like super like into it and then you like kind of lose interest because it's like now not as exciting because like unless something keeps the excitement up. Yeah, I'm just being honest.

[Tony Robbins]

No, like, sure.

[Liron]

It just part, I think that's kind of part. Part of like being add, Right. I don't know.

[Tony Robbins]

I don't know. I'm not adding.

[Liron]

Excuse me.

[Tony Robbins]

I don't really know too much about it to be honest with you, aside from what I just told you before, but I think.

[Liron]

Oh, so you just have like a.

[Tony Robbins]

Factoid that you whip out because you.

[Liron]

Listen, I'm no expert on it. I'm also self diagnosed. I think people like use the word ADD and they throw it around super loosely now.

[Tony Robbins]

Like when I'm ADD or my CD or.

[Liron]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm so addicted.

[Tony Robbins]

I'm being ADD like right now about this thing.

[Liron]

Yeah, yeah. Like I think, I think most people who think they're add, and by the way, I'm not even excluding myself from this, you know, are probably not add. Right. And like you said earlier, I think that like before in time it was not like something that was so focused on, but now everyone's focused on it. It's such a trending word.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

And it's also an excuse for people sometimes to kind of Be less than or to not work as hard or to be like, people use it kind.

[Tony Robbins]

Of like the horoscope. Someone's like, oh, I'm Capricorn, so I do xyz and they just like excuse it off. Like, they have to take responsibility for it because they, they've labeled it. Oh, I'm this. I'm sorry, I'm this. I can't do this.

[Liron]

Exactly. I think that the problem is when you label anything, then you can fall on that, on that title or label to excuse bad behavior. You know, like, I just did it myself. I'm like, well, because I'm add. Like, I lose interest in that and that's not a good thing. Right?

[Tony Robbins]

Like, but you, you also recognize that that part of your identity doesn't encapsulate who you are as a person. Like, it's an aspect of your personality and you don't let it. You still take responsibility for your life. I think problem is when we get labeled with anything, literally anything. Like, it could be add, but it could also be your political affiliation, it could be your horoscope, it could be your ethnicity, it could be anything. Like, we sometimes take our labels too seriously and they make, we make it our whole self and then it becomes a problem, usually.

[Liron]

Well, what do you think about children who are now being put on medication for ADD at 10 years old, 8 years old?

[Tony Robbins]

Does anyone think that's good? Apart from the people who are giving the medications?

[Liron]

I mean, I.

[Tony Robbins]

Great for Big Pharma. It's fantastic for Big Pharma.

[Liron]

It's great for Big Pharma. You know what though? Like, I have a problem with it because I think, you know, I think it's a problem when you start when you, when you put a child on medication, especially because, like, you're dimming the things that can, that make them who they are, and then they get reliant on this medication and then that's a medication they're going to be on for 40, 50, 60, 80 years. And anything that you put yourself on medication wise, your body becomes acclimated and then you have to constantly up the dose. So why the fact that you start children on something like that for a thing that may or may not even be, you know, because for a thing that actually could have really benefited them in real life. Right, right. I think, though, I'm actually shocked at how many people are putting their children on ADHD medication at a really young age. That's like, what? I don't know if it's just an L. A thing or what. But, like, I think what's happening is all these kids are now going to therapy, like, really young. When parents don't know how to, like, parent their children, they're like, I'm going to take them to a therapist. And then the therapist, you know, diagnoses them with ADD or adhd. And then, like, the next thing is like, well, they should be on medication for it. And it becomes like the slippery slope where then that becomes who that child is, that becomes who the children identify as, and then that's their crutch for anything in life. For.

[Tony Robbins]

I've seen that. I can actually think of someone very specific who is a younger person, 20, about to be 21. And they do that all the time. They. They make their labels, their identity, and it. I can see it limits them tremendously in life. But they also use it as a crutch to just get out of things. Oh, I'm. I'm add. Oh, I'm xyz. And they. You can see they're using it in a way that I think they think it's to their advantage. But you can see clearly this is, like, really limiting this person.

[Liron]

I also think it's become much more common now than it was before, like, when I was a kid. Right. Like, the diagnoses, the diagnosis have become more common. Taking children therapy is much more common. Like, instead of, like, kind of like, kind of like instead of just kind of like figuring it out on your own and like, just kind of, you know, under or trying to create coping skills and coping mechanisms by going through challenges and difficult times. The go to now is like, oh, I'm going to just. I'm going to take my kid to a therapist and let them deal with it and then talk it through and talk it out and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Liron]

Too much talking, right. Too much of this emotional ability to kind of like, keep on, like, especially.

[Tony Robbins]

Going into the past as well. Like, a lot of times they'll go into the past and they'll say, well, why are you this way? And why are you that way? And it goes back and it's. You know, you're talking about something that happens when you're three. And I.

[Liron]

No, but I'm talking about these kids who are super young, like, who are not even, like, they're prepubescent kids who are, like, are in therapy, like, once to five times, once to three times a week, like, to feel their feelings, which I really believe is the opposite of what you should be doing. Like, I think when you Feel your feelings to that extent, it actually could be detrimental. And it also ends up make the, it's making the kid ruminate on these things and problems that they may have versus just like kind of like moving through them. Because at that age like yeah, you'll have a problem but if you're not focused on it, the kid will eventually like focus on something else or do something else as opposed to like just like this hyper focus on like what your issue is and who you are badly or not badly. Like people are just are too like I guess it's part of like the culture we're in like which is like this caudal culture of like you're so scared of doing X and Y and so you just bring in like an expert or a therapist or you know, you don't want, you want to give them a safe space or you don't like that trigger and all these things.

[Tony Robbins]

I think it speaks really, when you talk about kids, it looks like the kid is the one with the problem, but really it speaks to the fact that the parent is the one with the problem. The parent has, has, is getting exacerbated, has given up, doesn't know the solution to the problem. And I don't think 99% of the parents I know are doing what they think is best for the kid. They just feel like they've run out of options. So I think it's really more about, it says more about the parent than it does about the actual child.

[Liron]

So again though, the other thing I think is interesting is like therapy is expensive. So is this kind of just like first world problem? Is it like a first world problem? It's like, hey, you know, I have excess money, I'm just gonna throw, throw it to a therapist for two, three. Because let's not even talk about the fact that no one takes insurance anymore. That's a whole other problem. Right? Like no one is taking insurance. So this is all out of pocket expenses usually.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

And so like yeah, if you have the extra money, like why not? And I'll just do that. But the average Joe doesn't have 2, 300 bucks to throw to therapist, which.

[Tony Robbins]

Might be beneficial because then they don't, they don't dwell on these problems. They just, well you're going to have to just get on with your life. And that in some situations, in many situations, it's probably the best thing to do.

[Liron]

100. That's exactly what I think. I mean like, I don't know, like I, I really keep on saying this, but I I feel like I belong in a different era at a different. In a different time. Like I want to go back to living in 1996.

[Tony Robbins]

I like Russia that way. I do. I do too. I think a lot of muscle.

[Liron]

Yeah. And where, you know, I just, I was forced to be bored. No one was like overscheduling my life and I wasn't told I have to go see a therapist because I'm emotionally like irregulated. When it's just me being mad that I didn't get the toy I wanted. Right. Or whatever it is. I think like less is more.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

You know.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. For sure.

[Liron]

But just to kind of wrap up on this ADD thing. I find that interesting because I. It's not just kids. I also think it's obviously adults.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

And even I said, oh yeah, I think I have add. Like I said I'm self diagnosed. But I always, I want to really kind of hammer home the point that I think whoever you are or whatever you have, you can make that work for yourself and make that your superpower. So if you are somebody who, you know, does have ADD and like has trouble focusing, you know, that can work to your advantage too. Like everything can work to your advantage.

[Tony Robbins]

Definitely.

[Liron]

It's all about how you frame it in your head and how you reframe it. Right. Like nobody's better or worse than anybody. The only thing that actually, actually like, makes a difference or like moves the needle is action. Like taking action, doing something.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, definitely. 100. You always want to validate who you are and what you are and, and accept it and then you're going to be in your power and then you're going to be able to, you're going to do things differently from it. Everyone's going to be different. But this idea that like I'm this way and that's bad, you know, nobody. I don't think that anybody thrives from that. I think whatever you are, if you're add, whatever. And we're talking about it like loosely.

[Liron]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

My clinically ADD necessarily.

[Liron]

But like we're not doctors. It's just like what we're seeing in like societal.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

You know, and in social media and all.

[Tony Robbins]

But it is, I mean, I mean we, we know about like tick tock brain and stuff like that. We do know that social media is hijacking the dopamine system and making people more add and like, I don't think anyone is debating that. So as a society, we are becoming more add.

[Liron]

Well, that's funny you say that because it's true. I think that even if we aren't some, we were not. We may have not been that way, but our brains have become so used to like these instant gratifications. No delayed gratification, instant hits of dopamine where we're without.

[Tony Robbins]

Without working for it. So in nature you would have to work for every reward you got. You wouldn't. You would very rarely get like an. A big fast dopamine hit without having to like put in some effort. Which I know you're all about effort, right. Like you're all about striving and being bold and, and taking action towards something and not just having things delivered to you on a plate. Like we think we want that, but that's not, that's not what we want. It's not what's good for us to be just delivered something. And that's probably the ultimate first world problem is we are given things too easy, our life is too easy. And so we find a way to make it hard because we're. It interferes with our wiring, it interferes with how we were meant to be. We were meant to take action and strive and have delayed gratification.

[Liron]

Right.

[Tony Robbins]

There's a big mismatch.

[Liron]

I think there's a direct correlation between delayed gratification and your ultimate happiness. Right. Because when you have to work for something and like see it through and, and develop patience. Right. It. And once you get it, you feel so much more satiated and like that.

[Tony Robbins]

You earned it and it lasts that, that's. That satisfaction lasts a lot longer.

[Liron]

Well, I think overall, like the feeling of I feeling that you earned it versus just got it because it came too easy, you. It's like more precious to you. You like actually I think that you just, you really kind of appreciate it more.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. You work with. Work with you. You know a lot of celebrities, like Hollywood types.

[Liron]

I don't know, it depends, I guess. I know a few. Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

Have you noticed that that is quite common amongst the Hollywood types? Because they're very. I. When I first moved to la, I worked in Hollywood just a little bit and I observed them and they're an interesting punch. Yeah, they're an interesting bunch. But I think maybe there's, there's quite a bit with that because they get so much fame and money and love and like these adoration amounts of adoration that we wouldn't again be wired towards and they get it so fast. And I'm not saying they don't deserve it because a lot of them will go and get rejection after Rejection after rejection, you know, like going to casting calls and.

[Liron]

No, but most people don't deserve it. And I think that's why most of these people are fucked up, right, Is because they have no real sense of reality anymore. Right. It's just like.

[Tony Robbins]

And they do seem quite deluded after a while, especially they've been famous for a long time.

[Liron]

I think it also depends on when you get famous. If you get famous really early on in life, it's really a problem because.

[Tony Robbins]

Then you grew up with that.

[Liron]

You grew up with that fame, and so it distorts your idea of what's real.

[Tony Robbins]

Michael Jackson or.

[Liron]

Right, like Britney Spears, Michael Jackson. I mean, these people have had, like, crazy experiences with life because it's so pseudo reality. It's not real. If you're somebody who worked really hard and had a lot of failure and had to be resilient and had to kind of get back up over and over again. And so then when you finally found success, when they finally found success, it really meant something. Those people are much more normal.

[Tony Robbins]

So that speaks. I think that speaks again. Sorry. I think that speaks again to what you were saying about, like, validating where you're at. Like, if someone is not. Hasn't made it in, whatever avenue they're talking about, whether it's business or a relationship or family or, you know, fitness or whatever it is, money, the fact that it's taking a lot longer for them could actually be a good thing.

[Liron]

It is a good thing because, like, we just finished saying, like, instant gratification. If you just, like, if you came out to LA and you hit the first movie, you got that, you came off the boat or the bus from Ohio and you got the first movie or first gig, and then, boom, you're super famous. It's probably not so great for your psyche. Right?

[Tony Robbins]

Right.

[Liron]

But if you actually got here and, like, you, like, tried out for a movie, didn't get it, and then you're like, oh, shit, okay, I got to. I got to go through the grind and I have to do all these auditions and I have to. I have to get. I have to be rejected over and over and over again. When you finally get the opportunity and you succeed, you're like, wow. And you appreciate it more. But I will say there's something to be said for people who, like. Who are, like, a glutton for punishment also. Right. Like, you must. I think there are different types, right? There are people who just want to be famous for the sake of being famous, because they, like, they think it's glamorous, which are like a whole other group of people that I don't really have much to do with. But then there are other people who are truly, like, really talented. And, like, they have, like, they've, they've honed their craft, they work on their craft, they like, practice. They have, like, they have, like, coaches and all these things to get better. That's like a different mindset.

[Tony Robbins]

Right. You're saying. You're saying there's a difference between people who's. Who's obsessed with their craft versus the results and the rewards of the craft.

[Liron]

I think the people who are doing it for the right reasons, who they become is very different than the people who just do it for fame. The problem is anybody can be famous today, Right. Like, if you have a big social media account. I know a lot of these people who just, like, buy 10 million followers, right. And then they leverage this fake number to become famous. And, like, they have like a whole team around, this whole facade that's not even real. And then people don't do their homework and they think, oh, this person, this girl has really 11 million followers. Okay, I'll give her this or I'll let her into that. And they get access to things that they otherwise wouldn't have got access to, but they didn't. Not only did they not earn it, they bought it. And then they're working the system.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. Which is cheating the system.

[Liron]

The totally cheating the system. But this is the world we're living in now. Like, anybody can do that.

[Tony Robbins]

That's kind of what we're talking about in general. Like, my philosophy on basically all problems is that there's a mismatch between how we were meant to be, how we're naturally wired, and our environment. And that's the same with mental health problems. The same with physical health problems. Same with everything. But I think all of that is really all these issues come from trying to kind of cheat the system. Like, again, try to get rewards for not doing the work in the first place.

[Liron]

Right. They're all hacks. These are all, like, hacks. Like, you know, not Biohack, like Biohacks, but kind of like these, like, life hacks that you're doing. Like life hacks are kind of like cheating the system. Right. Because you're trying to, like, find these shortcuts into getting from point A to point B.

[Tony Robbins]

And that might be a hollow victory. Maybe you're not prepared for that level of success.

[Liron]

It's a holiday.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. Maybe you're not going to be able to sustain that. So.

[Liron]

But here comes the other. We can go on about this, that most, a lot of people don't care because they don't have the self awareness to know any different. So you know, they don't mind hollow victories because they're hollow.

[Tony Robbins]

Right, Right.

[Liron]

So then it comes down to like, right. Like we could go, this is like a rabbit hole. Right. But like I find all of it to be just where we're going as a society in this way is not the right way.

[Tony Robbins]

No, it's not.

[Liron]

But definitely people should be truly happy and fulfilled.

[Tony Robbins]

No, clearly not. Clearly not. I mean if you look at younger, younger people, it's, it's, it's depressing how much they're depressed, how easily they're depressed, how anxious they are and how it's kind of a horrible thing to say about them, but how weak they are, you know, to a lot, to a large degree when you, you. But you fragile snowflakes, yada, yada yada.

[Liron]

I just did last Friday, I did a TED talk. It's not out yet. Or maybe it will be out by the time we do this. By the time this is loaded. About how we are breeding a generation of soft, fragile people. The gen, like Gen Z is much more fragile than our generation was because we're not giving them the tools to be strong, mentally or otherwise. And it's, it is going to be the demise of our society and culture in life because of this problem. And we're feeding into the problem unless we put a stop to it. I think that social media, I think that screens, I think both of those social media and screen are the main culprits. I think coddle culture is a major problem when we are brainwashing too.

[Tony Robbins]

Like I feel like they have next to. Again, I'm being harsh and there's, there's definitely smart kids out there, but a lot of them seem to have no critical thinking capability whatsoever and will just literally eat whatever's in front of them, you know?

[Liron]

Well, only because we're, they're being told like they're on TikTok, they're on, they're on Instagram and there are, they are looking at these influencers and they're, they think, oh, this person says that eating this is what's going to get me to the goal I want. Or that's what they're doing. It's cool. Like that Bieber shake, you know that $25 era one that Hailey Bieber has.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

You know what I'm thinking to myself? Who can afford a $25 shake. Right. Like, it's expensive. That's crazy expensive.

[Tony Robbins]

Especially because the type of person who's going to be drinking it shouldn't have that. You know, it probably doesn't.

[Liron]

Number one is all sugar, but that's a whole other problem. But, like, for 25 bucks, you can go get, like, a real amazing meal at, like, a nice restaurant for two. For two. I get a great chicken kebab. I can get salad. I can get my potato. But no, people are going. And they're. By the way, they're. They're going there in droves. It's not like. It's like, you know, straggling in one at a time. There is a lineup, and, like, I can't make this up. Like, no matter what time I go to ERA one, Like, I won't even. Even shop there. It's at a principal alone.

[Tony Robbins]

But also, who shops there? I mean, if you're going to pick up one or two things or get lunch. I understand, but, like, who's doing that grocery shopping?

[Liron]

Era okay. By the way, have you been to Era 1?

[Tony Robbins]

I have time to. Time, yeah.

[Liron]

Okay. I will tell you.

[Tony Robbins]

Packed. Every time I go.

[Liron]

Packed.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

I'm talking in the morning. I'm talking late at night. I'm talking in the middle of the afternoon. Who has the money to spend on that place? I'm a working person, and I still feel like it's so crazy expensive that I can't afford it. Okay. You see the people who go there, they're like young girls. They're like young boys. They're like people who don't even look like they have jobs. They're like, look at. They do yoga all day or have no job. They look homeless. And they're going into the store and there's lineups. I'm talking, like, lineups at the. At the, like, the hot food area. Lineups to get that Bieber smoothie. Lineup to buy fruits that are, like, you know, like, cut up 10 times.

[Tony Robbins]

The price of what they would be at literally any other grocery store.

[Liron]

No, no, no. You don't understand, Leon. Okay, I propose. I went there. A friend. I went there, and I had to get bone broth that was like, $25 for, like, a bowl of bone broth that, like, by the way, it's like bones and water.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, I literally made it this morning.

[Liron]

I bet you cost, like, 7 cents.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, something like that.

[Liron]

Everything there is so ridiculously expensive. You would think. You would think that they were giving you. Giving away gold in the food or like there was like some kind of, like.

[Tony Robbins]

Is it like a sort of just mob mentality? Like a.

[Liron]

No, it's trendy. It's trendy. People see it on Tick Tock and they see some famous person.

[Tony Robbins]

So that's drinking something. That's a huge thing. Like the trend. Like their. Their like, propensity towards whatever the trend is.

[Liron]

That's what I'm saying.

[Tony Robbins]

They don't. I don't think they even care. It's like, oh, the cool kids are doing it. Then I have to.

[Liron]

I think I want you to go to Arrow One and try that Bieber shake. You. You as a fitness person like me. If you see the ingredients, I'm more.

[Tony Robbins]

Of an animal based.

[Liron]

Okay, but that's literally a bunch of sugar.

[Tony Robbins]

If everyone pay me to do it.

[Liron]

No, they're not going to pay you. They're probably going to, like, ban this podcast. No, I was going to say that if you saw the ingredients and all the things, they put the word organic in front of, like, an ingredient, which.

[Tony Robbins]

Itself is a little bit of a scam.

[Liron]

It is a scam. But we'll get into that after. But the point is, you put organic bee pollen and people are like, oh, it's healthy. I'm going to go get that organic sugar.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

Okay. I'm gonna run and get this shake. You. I'm telling you, you would have to stand in line for 20 minutes for this stupid shake. It is so beyond. Have you tried anything? Yeah, it's all sugar. I didn't like it. But you put Hailey Bieber's name on a shake.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Liron]

And all of a sudden it's like, it's the most popular thing. It's like, people are so crazy.

[Tony Robbins]

That's business, though. Like, I always kind of. I always get into these things and I flip it. Like, I'm thinking from a business perspective. Good for everyone. If you're. If you're ERA one, that's what. No, no, that's your job in America.

[Liron]

They are genius, by the way. I want the founders of Era1 to come on this podcast even though I trashed you because. Brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. Because. But we're living.

[Tony Robbins]

I don't get how they do it. I don't get why. Why it works. Well, number one, that is a brilliant business.

[Liron]

I'll tell you how it works. You overprice everything. People find that there's value if they're paying too much for it.

[Tony Robbins]

Right.

[Liron]

If you underprice something or whatever, people think that, like, it's not worth it as much like even for trainers, right? If I put a price tag on me that says I'm $500 an hour people, it's a. It's the perception of value. Oh, if she's $500 an hour, she must be really good. Versus that $80 an hour trainer at LA Fitness. He can't be as good when it's just all fucking lies. It's all perception is reality. But perception is actually not reality.

[Tony Robbins]

It's also a status thing. I think people. One of the things that people like, makes human behavior look more complex than it is, is disregarding like basic human nature that we want to have status. Like the thing that most people want more than anything else is to be high status. Like more than their health. They would sacrifice their health to be high stages.

[Liron]

Here I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you the equation to how like mob mentality works, right? It is have a really famous influencer, right? Drink the Hailey Bieber smoothie, right. Walking around in yoga pants, right? Put that on two to seven reels and next thing you know, someone's going to see it and their friend's going to tell their friend, their friend's going to tell their friend. Next thing you know, that becomes a trending product and everyone will drive there in droves. Now, they did the same thing with El Paseo. Do you know El Paseo, the restaurant on Canon? It became massively. It was always very popular. But it hit its tipping point when on TikTok a couple of famous people were shown eating lunch there. And all of a sudden people are like, oh, that's the cool place to be. That's like a restaurant where so and so is eating. I want to go there when I come to la. And so you have tour buses literally, you know, basically like driving people by the droves up to buy around there to take pictures of this restaurant. Also they do the same thing with Arrow 1 and they're like, oh, why don't we go eat there? And then they go back home and tell their friends back in Ohio or Kansas. And so when they come, they want to go and then they're telling all their friends. While this is all happening, people are still posting about it. Like people who are well known famous influencers, celebrities having pictures of their meals at a particular place. And then like, it's like it becomes like a cumulative effect, right? Yeah, and that's what happens.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, but you need that starter culture which starts from like some celebrity endorsement or whatever.

[Liron]

I don't think It's a celebrity endorsement. I think endorsements don't work. I think it has to look like.

[Tony Robbins]

Ones like, subtle, kind of.

[Liron]

It has to. It has to look organic, right? It has to look like, oh, yeah, I just stopped in to get my smoothie, or I'm just having dinner here with my friend.

[Tony Robbins]

And is that generally the case or is that.

[Liron]

I think people usually. I mean, sometimes it's like, it happens. I think it happens. Sometimes it happens just kind of organically. Organically. But I think a lot of times people have, like, deals on the side. You know what I mean? Like, I like deliverables. I'm going to go into your place four times in the next, you know, eight weeks, and I will post about it this Valentine's. I will do two stories around it. I will. You know, did it live? Like, now people know the value of what social media brings or that type of optic can bring or that type of exposure can bring. And so they want to get. They want to get paid. It's like they're going to get paid for it. That's why, like, that's something. The idea. And like, what, like, the word celebrity has really been, like, morphed and evolved. Like, anybody can be famous if they have a big following now on social media. And I'm not talking, like a hundred thousand people. I mean, even that could be good. But. And if you get. If you are somebody who has a lot of engagement with that number, I mean, it's. The sky's the limit. You can make millions of dollars a.

[Tony Robbins]

Month, literally, from just having lunch.

[Liron]

From just having lunch. Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

That era one.

[Liron]

That era. All right. No El Paseo for that one. Okay, so let's wrap this up, you guys. I don't even know. We were, like, on a tangent. We spoke about, like, all these ra. Random things, but thank you for being here.

[Tony Robbins]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Liron]

Okay, guys, check out Leron on his Instagram. What's your Instagram at?

[Tony Robbins]

Beyond Fitness. LA B E Y O N D F I T N E S S.

[Liron]

L A and by the way, we didn't even talk about fitness, so you'll have to, like, wait around.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, we'll do another one on fitness.

[Liron]

Yeah, we're gonna do. Probably won't.

[Tony Robbins]

We'll probably start on fitness and just gloss over it like we always do.

[Liron]

Totally true. Okay, see you guys. Bye.