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Habits and Hustle
Episode 411: Professor Scott Galloway: The Modern Connection Crisis + Wealth Building Strategies
01:21:41
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- [00:01]
A
Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle.
- [00:04]
B
Crush it. Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therassage. Their tri light panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach, cramps, shoulder, ankle, Red light therapy is my go to. Plus it also has amazing anti aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therassage Trilite everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code be bold for 15% off. This code will work site wide. Again. Head over to Therasolage T H E R A s a g e.com and use code be bold for 15% off any of their products. Welcome back to. I'm going to go right into it, Scott, because my audience is obsessed with you. Anyway, I always get a gazillion comments and messages whenever I post anything. Yeah, isn't it? We have a lot of entrepreneurs who follow and hyperfl.
- [01:47]
A
They're doing really well. I, I follow a track every. I'm very competitive. You're like, you're right. I mean, you're constantly beating us all the time. You, you're. Anyways, you're doing really well.
- [01:56]
B
Thank you. Well, I'm neck to, I'm, I'm neck and neck with you. Like there you've been, you've been crushing. I mean, now you have like, what, three podcasts?
- [02:03]
A
Yeah. To resist is futile. Anyways, let's jump right into it and I'll make all these jokes. I want to save this, this comedy gold for the.
- [02:10]
B
By the way, this is the podcast we started.
- [02:13]
A
Oh, we're on. Okay. So we're on.
- [02:15]
B
Yeah. No, so your standup comedy is, is very well received already and I, I, I appreciate and invite it. So yeah, like me and Scott just, you know, I always send you guys, I always send you our little top charts and I'm always like right beside you. But I noticed like every time I send it to you, you have another podcast show that you add. So you're going to have the entire business section in the next two months.
- [02:41]
A
I'm like AOL in the 90s. To resist is futile. If you stick your hand in a cereal box, you're going to pull out a odd from us. I'm like, just. It's not quality. Just surround them.
- [02:50]
B
It's exactly what. Well, listen, you're. It's working because. Well, first of all, let me tell everybody. His new book is called the Algebra of Wealth. And if you have not read it or picked it up, you're basically living under a rock. Possibly because it's so popular, especially in the business entrepreneurial space. Very well done. Amazing nuggets of gold information in there. So great job yet again.
- [03:12]
A
Thanks very much. Yeah. For greatness in the agency of other. About six people worked on the book, but yeah. Thank you.
- [03:18]
B
Six people. Wow. I mean, that's a lot of people. And are you like, how are you able? Quite honestly, like, you're literally like Waldo. Like I was just saying off camera. I check you out and you are in New York, you're in London, you're speaking in Vegas, you're writing books, you're doing three podcasts. Like, how are you. Like, time is your. And you talk about this in your book is the most valuable asset. How are you able to do all these things and do them well?
- [03:45]
A
So, man, what I said before, greatness in the agency of others. People think that. People constantly say to me, you must work around the clock. And I don't work more than 30 hours a week. Hold on a second.
- [03:55]
B
They're taking calls in my podcast. I mean, you're working diligently and constantly.
- [03:59]
A
It's a doorbell. We're basically an Amazon distribution center here. No, I have. So people think it's me. Propti is a media company. We have 14 people. I have three data analysts, two tech people, a videographer, a creative person, an editor in chief. And I like building small companies and we produce a great deal of content. I really enjoy it. But I'll be clear. I don't. I don't. I used to work very. When I was your age, I was working around the clock. And now I've decided that I want to. The reason I moved to Europe is I think US is the best place to make money and Europe is the best place to spend it. And I'm in the spending part of my life. I do prop to media because I want to talk about things that are important to me. Struggling young men, Israel, you know, big tech. But I'm now in this. I'm in the privileged position of my life where there's three buckets in life. There's things you have to do. You know, if. If your biggest investors in town or, you know, your in laws are in town, you got to have dinner with them, whatever it is. Things you have to do. There's things you want to do, right? You just went to Israel. I'm going to the south of France, going to the Cannes Creativity Festival, which I'm really excited about. And there's things you should do, and you build your career doing things you should do. You know, going to a networking function, going to south by Southwest, and speaking on a panel where you might get some exposure. I have eliminated the should bucket from my life, and I only do things I have to do or that I want to do. And I didn't take outside money for the first time for this company because I don't want to be responsible to anyone. But paying my employees really well, which we're able to do, and we produce a ton of content. I'm working with really talented people. But be clear, when you see something I put out, it's a bunch of other people producing it. I'm just the talent that they prop up and press play. It's kind of Weekend at Bernie's. I got other people carrying me around.
- [05:37]
B
I love that analogy. It's so funny. What can I. I mean, I want to. I want to start this podcast because you've been on many times. We talk about, we're going to get into Israel, we're going to get into your book and all the. All those other great, fun things. But, you know, I've seen you really try. Like, your trajectory have recently has really spiked, and people really respond to what you say, your content. What do you think your secret sauce is like, what is your superpower? That's really. You think why people are responding the way they are.
- [06:08]
A
First off, you're being very generous. And what I'll say is, after working my ass off for 30 years, I'm an overnight success. I mean, this wasn't like I woke up and all of a sudden I was on Morning Joe. I have been working my ass off, and I feel like I'm rounding third and taking some of those accolades. I know how hard you work in terms of, like, my core competence, my superpower as an individual is storytelling. I get a lot of practice. I sit in front of or stand in front of 300 people twice a week. I know how to craft a narrative. I know how to move people. I think to think differently. Use of data and humor softens the beach such that it opens their mind to new ideas. And I can craft a narrative and, you know, an arc and the cadence and delivery of that, I think that's my superpower. My core competence is the ability to attract and retain really good people who can leverage that storytelling. That skill, as you know see above property is 14 people. I think the reason that my content is resonating right now, and it's easy to pat yourself on the book, is I'm running into the fire. I'm talking about the struggles that young men face. When I started talking about it five years ago, it was seen as thinly veiled misogyny. And I got a lot of pushback. I talk about Israel, and you know as well as I do you get a lot of pushback. I have very young viewers. My. My podcast downloads went down 12%, which is a lot in one week when I started talking about Israel. And we're in a subscription model, so for people to purposely unsubscribe and you're down 12% and you're growing 20 to 30% year on year, it means you're doing something wrong. And that's something wrong with saying to a young audience that I think you are part of a zombie apocalypse of useful idiots in terms of your views. And I've used that terminology. And the wonderful thing about having some economic security and people who in your life who love you unconditionally is that you can speak your mind. So I'd like to think that part over the medium and the long term. You pay some short term dues, but the difference between an opinion and a principle is you're willing to sacrifice for a principle. But I talk about things that are. I don't call them risky, but I run into the fire. I talk about whatever interests me. I talk about that. I think DEI should be disassembled on campuses that higher ed is corrupt and we are the new enforcers of the caste system, which doesn't, you know, warm the hearts of my colleagues. But I think if you come at stuff as an honest broker, you speak your mind in an environment that's increasingly starch, where people are thinking about how many likes will I get and how many people will I not offend. Here I think people are ready for someone to run into the fire, if you will. And in addition, lately, you know, I'm a straight white male that talks about emotions, talks about his failures, talks about my relationship with my sons. And I think especially young men really appreciate that because I think there's so many young Men who are struggling and have a difficult time articulating how disappointing it is when your career doesn't work. And I've had those disappointments. So disappointing when you have unrequited love. Right. So disappointing to feel alone. And I, I've. I've been through all of that shit, so I relate to it and I talk about. And a lot of it, you know, Jen, it's just luck. Just luck. I don't. Why is this book selling better than my others? I'm not sure. I don't know. I. You know, a lot of it's luck. So anyways, how much do you think.
- [09:05]
B
Is luck versus, like, versus talent? Versus. Yeah, Versus talent. How much of it is luck?
- [09:12]
A
What I would say is that being talented is table stakes. And if you're a genius, if you're in the top.01%, you kind of don't need luck. The rest of us need a certain amount of luck. What I'll say is that being. Being hard working, being talented every week, I don't even think of it as talent. I think of it as iteration. And that is, you got to have some basic talent. But then every week just like, okay, looking at the data, what can we make a little bit better? How can we make this dialogue a little tighter? How can the music be a little bit better? What can we learn? Constant iteration. The first podcast I did had 1700 downloads. We'll do. Every one of them now gets 200 to 350,000 downloads. But it's never been a giant step change up. Luck is enormous because my narrative up until the age of 40 was, check me out. I was raised by a single immigrant mother that lived and died a secretary, overcame all of this and to become a baller like I, you know, I am man, hear me roar. And then as you get older, you become more thoughtful. And I realized being born a White House heterosexual male in the California, in California in the 60s meant I had access to free education, UCLA and Berkeley. $7,000 total tuition all seven years I had access. It was a 76% admissions when I applied. I had to apply twice. True story. It's now a 9% admissions rate. I came of age when the Internet was coming, or professional age when the Internet was coming on board. So a guy with a good rap and a shaved head could raise hundreds of millions of dollars, which I did. I've had some wonderful women in my life. My kids are. I mean, fucking A, I had. I am, I'm not humble, Jen. I. I think I'm in the top 1%. The top 1% puts you in a room with the population of Germany. My life is better than the 75 million most talented people in the world. But I made this incredibly smart decision, and that was to be born in California in the 60s. So, yeah, like, you know, 51% is hard work. 49%. You know, I don't know if luck is 49 or 51%, but I know it's a huge. Yeah, I tell this story, and it's emotionally manipulative. My freshman roommate at ucla, so similar to me, and I'm not saying this, I think he was more talented than me. He was creative. He was in the film school, super engaging, super funny. Everybody loves him, you know, immediately, right out of college, incredibly successful head of television at Disney, youngest head of television at Disney, dead of AIDS at 33 because God reached into his soul and decided he would be gay. I didn't choose to be straight. So luck, yeah, luck's played an enormous role. And the thing that upsets me the most about some of the tech bros that I cover and talk a lot about is they conflate luck with talent. They're under the impression that all of their billions are a function of their talent, and they don't even pull out a map and go, well, how come all of us are littered along the west coast of North America and not above Seattle and Canada, where there's no companies creating billions, or south of La Jolla? We're all in this one region. But it didn't dawn on us that we're incredibly fortunate that we either had the ability to immigrate here or our parents decided to take risks and be here. So I have no delusions. The reason I'm here with you right now is because, one, I'm talented, but mostly through the generosity and vision of California taxpayers and the vision of the Regency of the University of California that gave me an unbelievable education for almost no money, and the fact that my parents made the decision to move to America and that I was born here. So, yeah, I think a lot of it is luck.
- [12:30]
B
I mean, luck can get you. So I think luck is a big part, but you also talk a lot about a few things, and I. It resonates with me. Anyway, like you say, habits obviously really play a major integral role in how successful you become. Right? Habits, exercise, number one. Right. There's a definite correlation. I mean, how about. How often are you exercising, by the way? Every day.
- [12:54]
A
No. So I'm inspired. I follow you, and I feel weak. I've worked out four times. I've worked out four times a week for 40 years. That's my fitness secret. I don't have any. I don't have any crazy methods or die. I eat whatever I want, I drink whatever I want. I've worked out four times a week for 40 years and I've been six to 187 pounds. I've either been. I've toggled between 186 and 188. So I just, I'm the same weight no matter what I do. I have kind of body dysmorphia. I always feel too skinny and I have to lift to keep weight on. It's hard for me to do cardio, but working out for me has been my antidepressant. I struggle with anger and depression and the only thing that sort of keeps me level is resistance training and pretty serious cardio. It's when I can't work out because I'm on the road or I get lazy, I start getting angry at myself, I start blaming others, I start doing this shitty, weird role playing where I imagine confrontations or arguments with other people that don't exist. And I have to be like, what the fuck is going on with me right now? And I realize I'm eating shitty food because I'm on the road. I'm not around my boys, I'm not around my dogs. I don't have anyone's physical touch. I don't have intimacy, I don't have affection, I don't have sex, I don't have. I don't have working out. And I start to go into this really dark downward place. But whenever I'm down, the first thing I do is I sweat. It's like turning the computer off and on for me.
- [14:10]
B
Yeah, I agree. I'm. I'm the same way with that, except I don't struggle with the anger portion. But the depression is the best antidepressant on the market and completely under indexed. So other things that you talk about in the book is have rich friends, make rich friends. Can we talk about that a little bit?
- [14:27]
A
Sure. So I'm not suggesting you ask for the W2 of anyone you hang out with. The larger point is there's just a lot of studies that show you're the sum and the average of the five people you hang out with. And I think that you should aspire to have really successful, high character, impressive friends. And even you're a parent, I'm a parent. We like to think that we're engineers, that we engineer the sheep we don't. We're shepherds. We get to choose where our kids graze, the directions they graze in, the food they eat. But the most influential, most kind of important influence on their life is their peer group. And if you look at the four or five people you hung out with the most between the ages of 15 and 30, you're probably the same body mass index, the same economic weight class, the same political affiliations, the same cities. It's amazing how similar you become. So what I tell, and this is true, if you have the opportunity to establish a relationship with someone who's really impressive and there's more than just money, but very impressive people tend to attract economic prosperity. And what I'm saying is I don't. I wouldn't be afraid to upgrade friends and not stay friends with people just because you went to junior high together. If friends are bringing you down or taxing you or not setting a good example for how you should live your life, I don't think there's a problem. And I know this sounds rapacious with shedding friends, but more than that, when you have the opportunity to establish a friendship with a really impressive person, high character, funny, interesting, works hard, super successful, get in that room with that person. Because a lot of it's the only reason I went to college. My dad told me, buy me a Trans Am when I was in the 10th grade if I didn't go to college because I didn't need it, I was too smart. According to him, he just want to pay for college. And I said, great. So I wasn't going to college. My two best friends, Brett Jarvis, a Mormon kid, and Ronnie Drake, a black kid, were just going to college. And I. So it's like, okay, my two best friends are going to college, which means I'm going to go to college. If I'd hung out with two other guys that just smoked pot and we're going to do what I was going to do, install shelving and hang out, that's what I would be doing. So if you want to upgrade your life, upgrade the people, the peer group you hang around with, and then just bridging it to the book. The strange thing about those same five people is that even if they all make approximately the same amount of money, one will end up much more financially secure than the other four, despite not having made much more money than them. And that's the basis of the book. I wanted to look at the character and behaviors and strategies of that one guy or gal that ends up much more economically secure than the other four, despite not making much more money.
- [16:53]
B
What, what is wealth to you? And what is the formula to be wealthy besides what we just said?
- [16:58]
A
So the definition of rich in my view is passive income. That's greater than your burn. Passive income is income you get even if you decide not to go to work in the morning. So two examples. Close friend of mine runs M and A for an iconic investment bank. He makes between 4 and 10 million a year, depending on the year. He pays a 50% tax rate, living in Connecticut between his ex wife, his alimony, his three current kids, his home in the Hamptons, his flex check card, his master, the aminorous lifestyle that he believes he's entitled to, which you can understand. He spends almost all of it and I know that he spends a lot of nights staring at the ceiling wondering what happens if the music stops. He's not rich. My father, between his Social Security, his royal Navy pension, he was a frogman in the Royal Navy. And he owns, I think eight washing and drying machines and trailer parks where he collects the quarters every day. He makes $52,000 a year, he spends 48. His passive income is greater than his burn. He's rich, my father's rich. So people always focus on how much money they're making. Really how you get wealth and how you get rich is how much money you spend. And so you want to put yourself on a path over time such that you can spend less than you make. So you can deploy an army of capital that works for you in the night, compound interest, and hopefully by the time you're my age, your passive income is greater than your burn. And then you are rich. Now part of that is deciding how much you need. You might decide, I'm going to do a lifestyle arbitrage and move to Costa Rica. So me and my wife only need 80 grand a year to live a really nice life. 35 grand in Social Security, we'll make 10 or 15 grand doing some sort of work. So we need 30 grand in passive income. Times that by 15 to 25. Okay, we need half a million to a million bucks in savings. That's intimidating. But if you got 12 or 15 years to figure that out, because my book is mostly written for young people, but you know, for people who are a little bit older, you know what your burn is going to be. Think about it, you know, needing a, needing another half a million bucks over 15 years. It sounds intimidating. It sounds like $100,000 a year. It's not. It's 30 or $40,000. That you need to not touch and let grow so rich is passive income great in your burn the formula. Focus. Find something you're good at that other people will pay you for. Go into an industry that has a 90 plus percent employment rate. Don't go into sports, modeling, acting, the arts, unless from a very early age you are getting bright green signals that you're in the top 1%. Focus on something you're good at that has a 90 plus percent employment rate. 2. Stoicism. Realize no one's thinking about your shit as much as you are. Try to have some discipline around not being the guy that orders a bottle of Grey Goose late at night, trying to impress potential mates. Realize that you only need so many pairs of ergonomically impossible shoes. Try and develop a savings muscle. Try and control the things you can. Some things in your career you cannot control. You can control your spending. Try and just Even in your 20s, I'm not suggesting you live like a miser. Enjoy yourself, go to Coachella, but try and save 100 bucks a month, maybe 500, maybe you're starting to make money is once you have that savings muscle, once you know how to flex it, when you come into your 30s and hopefully start making some money from that focus and your talent, you'll be good at saving money. Or you at least know how. Some people go through their entire lives, they never learn how to save money. It's like if they. It's like trying to play golf for them all of a sudden. And if they've never done it, they just don't know how to do it and then appreciate the power of time. My favorite example is I spoke to a private school, the board of a private school in Manhattan. I wanted to send my kids to this tony school called Grace Church or First Presbyterian. Mostly because I'm a narcissist. And I wanted to tell people, my kids went to First Presbyterian, it's $62,000 a year. And I said to the board, why do people, why do parents choose to send their kids here? Well, it's a great spiritual environment. Okay, come on. There's studies that show if you send them to the nearest school, the public school, the time in the commute is better spent on sleeping, playing, they'll be just as good. Why do people really come? They're like, well, the bottom line is much better chance of getting into an elite school. Okay, why do we care if they go to an elite school? Well, elite schools set you up for economic opportunities and the chance to do something you love and have Economic security. Find a family, raise a family, buy a home. I'm like, okay, it's bottom line is most of it, let's be honest, is economic security, which is really important in a, in a capitalist society. If you took that $62,000 a year from the age of 4 to 18, and every year you just put it in SPY, a Vanguard index fund that is just passively investing in the S and P, and you paid Vanguard that tuition every year and sent your kids to a public school, I want you to assume you were wrong. And those kids get into a shitty college. And then with their shitty college degree, they get a mediocre job, they can't afford a home, they can't find the right mate, and at 35, they're alone and can't afford a home. Well, that's the bad news. The good news is if you paid yourself that tuition, you can give that kid $5.4 million to ease their pain. So if private schools were honest, they would say First Presbyterian or 5.4 million to your kid at 35. But people don't think that way. My first bonus at Morgan Stanley when I was 23, I got $28,000 bonus. So I went out and bought a $35,000 BMW. If I put that $28,000 in just an index fund, I'm not saying you have to be a genius. You don't have to find the needle in the haystack, buy the whole haystack. I would have enough money for nine Ferraris. Now, people don't understand. When you're young, you want to lean into your advantage. When you're young, you have one advantage. You have time. And here's the problem. It sounds easy. It's not because young people don't believe they're going to live past 35. Because for 99% of our time on this planet, our species has not lived past 35. So it's impossible to imagine you're going to be around another 60 or 70 years, which you will be when you're 25. And if you just get 9% a year, which sounds terrible, but that's what the NASDAQ's done, or, excuse me, the S and P has done since it. That means. That means in 24 years, right, you're going to have eight times your money. And in 32 years, you're going to have 16 times your money. And when you're my age, even if you don't get an MBA contract or sell a novel or have your business sold, whatever it might be, you're financially secure. So it's appreciating time. And then the last thing, and this is underrated, and it's where I fucked up several times, is the power of diversification. I came out of the gates really hot. I made a lot of money. I started Internet companies, was rich on paper. But I always doubled down on my companies red envelopes, going public. How much do I have in stock? Well, Scott, you have 20 million in stock. I'm going to borrow 5 million against my stock and buy more stock because anything I throw myself at, I'm such a baller, it's going to be huge. And I read these stories about Steve Ballmer borrowing more money and putting into Microsoft in it to win it. My board loves it, shows commitment. 2008 comes along great financial recession. The market is bigger than any individual. My company goes from seven bucks a share to chapter 11 in about three weeks. And I go from being worth, you know, millions or tens of millions to negative 3 million. And unfortunately, it was about the same time my oldest son had the poor judgment to come marching out of my girlfriend. And that moment in the delivery room where my kid comes out and I'm supposed to hear angels singing in bright angelic light. And I feel so nauseous and so ashamed that I let my son down. Because despite having made all this money, I am broke. And it's no longer about me, it's about taking care of him and the feeling of, the feeling of, you know, that I had. The first thing I felt with my son was that I had failed him. And if I just diversified a little bit, if I just sold some stock and put it in some boring shit, if I just sold some stock and put it in bonds and different stocks and some index funds, I would have been fine. And now that I have money again and I got wealthy and sold my company about my number about 70 years ago, I do not put more than 3% of my net worth in any one thing. And if you'd asked me what investment I was most excited about, I would have said this AI based healthcare company where they send text messages for preventive healthcare. I invested 3% of my net worth because I was really excited about it. It went out of business last week. It's a zero. It bums me out for about an hour because I have Kevlar. And that's what diversification is. It's a bullet to the chest. But I got Kevlar takes me off my feet. I get up, I have a little bit of a bruise, but I am fine. Whereas when bullets hit me when I was a younger man and I wasn't diversified, I was out. They were almost near death experiences. So hope you're wrong. Hope that that one company goes to the moon. But diversify. Because what Kahneman said, the behavioral economist that died a couple months ago, is the joy of going from 10 million to a billion won't be nearly as great is the misery of going from 10 to 0. So you don't need to go from 10 million to a billion. Go from 10 to 20 to 30 slowly and just be really happy. So anyways, focus, time, stoicism, times the appreciation for time and diversification. So in sum, I know how to get you rich. That's a good news. The bad news, Jen, is the answer is slowly.
- [25:49]
B
I love that answer. And then you know what's interesting is everybody now, I think also because of Instagram, people are staring at everybody's lifestyle and it's very, it's very popular and hashtag friendly to be an entrepreneur and do all these side hustles. But you actually talk about the fact that you're not such a fan of side hustles. Why is that?
- [26:10]
A
If you're using a side hustle to workshop something, if you're doing side hustles, that means you have the wrong main hustle. The way you get wealthy is with a main hustle that you're really good at and you take all the time you would have spent on a side hustle and you double down on your main hustle. Because being in the top 10% of tax accountants, assuming, and by the way, I'm not saying this disparagingly, some people love the law, some people love taxes. Some people are good with clients, they're good with numbers, they love tax strategies. Being in the top 10% of tax accountants gets you 2 or 300 grand a year. Being in the top 1% gets you 2 to 3 million. The difference between, and I'll use a sports analogy, between the number 10 golfer is 3 million a year versus the number two or three golfer. We're literally talking point two strokes is 30 to 50 million a year. You need that incremental energy doubling down, going 110% in your main gig. Otherwise use use side gigs to workshop a different main gig. But your, your goal is to find something where professionally, every waking professional hour, you're focused on one thing and then the rest is for family and fitness. But spreading peanut butter across a bunch of different shit. I have never been successful at anything. I didn't go 110% into. And when I hear people say they want to be an entrepreneur, but first they need to work for a while and they don't want to give up their job, I'm like, you're not going to be an entrepreneur. I mean, and also what the ring I really hate is balance. I survey my kids and when I say my kids, my students, they, I ask them, where do you expect to be economically? And by the time you're 35, 70, 80% of them expect to be in the top 10% and half of them expect to be in the top 1%, which I think is $700,000 a year of American households. And then I say, okay, what do you want on a job? Something rewarding, something I learned a lot. And the number one thing is I want balance. I'm like, let me get this. You expect to be in the top 1% and you are under the delusion you're going to have balance. I have had periods in my life where I have good relationships, I'm fit, I'm donating time at the aspca, I'm taking care of my mental health. That is when I am losing money. And then there's been periods where I am making bank and my life feels like it is flying apart at the fucking scene. Like, and when I tell like, you can have it all, you just can't have it all at once. I have a lot of balance now because I had almost none in my 20s and 30s working this hard. My 20s and my 30s cost me my hair. It cost me my first marriage. And to be blonde, it was worth it because now I have a shit ton of time for my kids, for my own personal well being. I do amazing things. I have, I had a five year exhale where I no longer have any economic security. I can totally focus on my relationships and just having a great time. But if you think you're going to be achieve any level of influence or economic security in a capitalist competitive economy without going all in, I mean, all in, you are in for a rude awakening now. That's my way. It may not be the right way. If you want to work to live, not live to work, fine. You know, as Lincoln said, God loved the common man. That's why I made so many of them. But you need to get an alignment with your partner and have a sober conversation that maybe we can't live in Manhattan or in Santa Monica. Maybe we need to move to Phoenix or move to El Paso or move to, you know, you name it. Low cost area St. Louis. And we're going to have a nice house maybe, but not a fat house. And we're going to have to adjust our expectations around quality of life. And what I find causes more divorce and more dissent is not infidelity or a lack of shared values. It's not alignment around economic weight class. What's our approach to spending? Who's responsible for making the money? What economic weight class do we expect to be in? And who's responsible for getting us there and keeping us there? And when you don't have that alignment and there's weird dynamics around control and expectations and then people start hiding things from each other. 70% of divorce filings people over the age of 40 are filed by women. And the vast majority of the time you can reverse engineer it to money, money issues. So I think it is exceptionally important that you have really open, sober conversations around your expectations and that your partner is aligned. And I see so much dysfunction in my friends relationships around money. And no one's allowed to talk about it because we're all supposed to pretend that we're ballers and that oh, I don't have a problem with money. Saying you have problems with money is like saying you're not worthy in a capitalist society. This is implicit notion that you fucked up. And here's the thing, I don't care who you are. I mean there's, there's a few people to 0.1%. Everyone has stress for money. I still have stress for money. There's still times I have more money than I ever thought I would. And sometimes I'm like, oh fuck, we can't, where am I going to find money? You know, to, to, we're renovating a house. Where am I gonna find money for this? Or I just gave away money. Did I give away too much? I, I, I constantly have economic stress and it was hands down the biggest source, my biggest source of stress growing up in my household. Hands down. And, but we're not allowed to talk about it. You need to have these conversations early and have a sober conversation around what economic weight class you need to be in and what are the sacrifices required to get there.
- [31:30]
B
Americans take up to 20,000 breaths a day and spend an average of 90% of their time indoors. The indoor air that we breathe can be up to 100 times more polluted than outdoor air. According to the EPA, indoor air pollutants can cause respiratory symptoms like sneezing, congestion, scratchy throat, and even more serious health problems like lung and heart disease. So what's the Solution. Introducing Air Doctor, the air purifier that filters out 99.99% of dangerous contaminants so your lungs don't have to. This includes allergens, pollen, pet dander, dust mites, mold spores and even bacteria and viruses. Air doctor comes with a 30 day money back guarantee, so if you don't love it, just send it back for a refund minus the shipping. Head to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code Hustle and you'll receive up to $300 off air purifiers exclusive to podcast customers. You will also receive a free 3 year warranty on any unit which is an additional $84 value. Lock in this special offer by going to Air Doctor Pro.com and use promo code HUSTLE. That's Air Doctor Pro.com promo code HUSTLE. Well, I think also this the young generation or today's generation, you're talking about balance. There's also a lot of issues with boundaries and all these other very, I call them very liberal woke isms around the workplace. Right. And, and also people are working now on zoom. So there's much less interpersonal relationships and people are working. They don't, they don't want to work anymore, but yet they want to live the lifestyle. There's. What do you tell people? I mean you just, you just actually told people. But I think there's a disconnect between what people think is out there and what they have to do. And I don't see the pendulum swinging the opposite direction. I think people are now are becoming inherently more lazy. Much more of a caudal culture environment where everyone gets a participation trophy. Nobody really wants to be show that there are winners and losers. This is like that to me is actually the epidemic that we're facing right now. Like I'm, I'm really concerned about the younger generation than anything.
- [34:03]
A
Yeah I do. I think there's an entire generation of men, there's 3 million able bodied men between the ages of 25 and 54 who not only are working, they're not looking for work, they've just given up on work. And in a full employment economy it's just like they could get a job. They've just decided any job they could get. I was on the board of Panera and this is a good thing. Through the pandemic there was a labor shortage. You can pretty much start tomorrow at Panera for 18, 20 bucks an hour. And that's not huge money but if you're good and reliable, we go to a Job fair. We used to get a hundred applicants, now we get 10 and we'll hire five. And two will show up. Three are just no shows. And if you, you know, if you work hard, you're a good person, you have some EQ without a college degree now, you can probably be making, I don't know, 60, 80, 100 grand a year just if you're, if you're hardworking and a good person. And some people, young people, unfortunately, I think a lot of them been told you can have it all. And so they're like. And then they. 210 times a day someone is vomiting their experience at the Almond Hotel or the new Ferrari they just bought. And they're under the impression that everyone has that but them. And they can get that without hard work or they can be ridiculously fucking thin with a six pack and a hot boyfriend and it's just going to happen for them. So we've created a little bit of unreasonable expectations. I'm more worried about young men. I think young women are, if you really think about statistically young women are killing it. They're going to college in greater numbers. They're in urban centers. Women under the age of 30 are now making more men than men because they're graduating at three to two ratio from college. They're more mature, they show up for work on time. I mean little things. They, you know.
- [35:35]
B
Yeah, but you know what's happening with that. They're single and alone. If you are a woman who is capable and competent and can do all those things on their, on your own, they don't want a man because the men out there are, there's very few and the few that there are are going to be wanted by every single girl. So then they're going to go, right. So it's like what do you do in that? That's basically what's happening. I know more single great girls than I've ever have in my life. And very few eligible great guys, very few. And the guys I know who I'm friends with, they have the pick of the litter. They can go out with girls who are like literally more than half their age. And those girls are like vying for them and dying to go out with them.
- [36:18]
A
But both parties are to blame. Okay? Men, young men, for a variety of reasons, some societal, some is on them are economically and emotionally unviable. They're less mature. They literally mature. The prefrontal cortex matures at a slower rate. They're not going to college. They're in their, they've been told by the wealthiest, deepest pocketed companies in the world they can have a reasonable facsimile of life online with an algorithm. Why go out and make the effort to get friends when you can go on discord or Reddit? Why get a job when you can make money trading crypto on Coinbase or stocks on Robinhood? Why go through the effort and the rejection and the humiliation and establishing the skills and getting your mom or your gay friend to dress you, working out, taking the risk, going to a place, putting up the bullshit and the rejection of finding a romantic or sexual partner when you just have you porn. And so you have an entire cohort of men who have sequestered from society, they don't get those skills, they go down a rabbit hole and they become almost sort of just non viable mates at the same time. Because online dating is how people meet each other, women aren't interested in getting to a second date. What do I mean by that? You basically have height and wealth now are the key criteria for women. Humor, vibe, kindness, smell. None of these things come through online. So 50 men on Tinder, 50 women. And you highlighted some of the state data. 46 of the women show all of their attention to just four men. And those four men can have a date every night. That doesn't encourage long term, good, appropriate behavior. Right. So you have all these women who all want the same guy. And if you talk to married couples who've been together 20 or 30 years, about 70, 80% of the time they'll say one partner was much more interested than the other. And it's usually the woman was not interested. But I worked with him and he was kind or I found out he's smart, or I met his parents and I love the way he acted around his parents. I got to know him and there was something about him. I liked his hands and I started thinking about his hands holding my hand. Women have a much finer filter and for a guy to get through that filter, he typically has to demonstrate excellence over time in a community where they're together in person. And so when you're online, there's basically only two criteria for a guy. It's his ability to signal wealth by credentialing around universities that went to his current job. And for guys, it's basically, how does she look? Now? Here's the thing about guys. Guys will find the majority of women, or a large portion of them attractive. Oh, she has nice hair, I'd like to date her. Women are much more discerning. Women are like, oh, he went to Dartmouth. But I don't want an Ivy League guy. Oh, he's, he's, he's handsome, he went to a good school. But he's in the energy sector. That means he's polluting. The date will just literally swipe left, swipe left, swipe left. So what I, my advice to men is simply put, get your shit together, get out, start making money. I don't care what it is, get to the gym. I can find time in their phone, on coinbase, on Twitter, on porn. We're going to reinvest in working out, we're going to reinvest in making some money and we're going to be in the agency of other people. I don't care what it is, little, you know, a softball league, church, a non profit, you have to get out of the house and be in the company of strangers and start demonstrating excellence to the same sex or the other sex. And what I tell women is be open to a second coffee. Be open. I mean, if you really don't like the guy, fine. But if he's, if you think there might, may be something there, give, give him a second shot. Because I believe that essentially most women are under the impression that they can have that, what I'll call high status male. And having sex with him does not mean he's a potential viable relationship for you. And what you end up with is I think this, this inability or unwillingness to give men in the bottom 90 a second coffee. So everybody's going after the same guy. This guy has like you said, champagne and cocaine in terms of his options, which does not promote, promote something what I call Portia. Polygamy. Polygamy. And by the way, that's the natural state of the world. The natural state of the world is a small number of men get to do all of the mating. That's how the world mostly is operated. In the US we invented a middle class. Seven million men came home from war, they were in uniform, they were in shape, they had demonstrated excellence. We put money in their pockets, they were viable mates. That's what kicked off the baby boom. What we have now is an entire cohort of un, you know, economically and emotionally unviable men, women, women, it's not that they can't find a man, they can't find a man they want to date.
- [40:45]
B
That's right.
- [40:46]
A
What's happened is now is that 2 in 3 women under the age of 30 though have a boyfriend. Only 1 in 3 men. Why? Because women are dating older, 24 year old women are dating a 38 year old guy. So the young guy has no options because any, any kind of high status or remotely, you know, shit together, woman is going older. The problem is there's not as much household formation. Kids aren't having. People aren't having babies. 60% of people age 30 to 34 in 1980 had at least one child. Now it's 27%. People aren't meeting, they're not falling in love, they're not having sex. The people, one out of three men under the age of 30 hasn't had sex in the last year. Young people aren't having sex. And I say jokingly, but I'm sort of serious. My advice to young people is to go out, drink more and make a series of bad decisions that might pay off. But if you have this incredibly fine filter, even politics. Do you remember when we used to date when we were younger? Did you even know the politics of the person you were dating?
- [41:39]
B
No, Nothing. I didn't care.
- [41:41]
A
I didn't talk about politics. I'm like, no. Does she, does she seem fun? Would I want to have sex with her? Like, is she interesting? And then okay, does she have nice friends? And that was it. I had no idea. And now everyone's like, well, if they're red or blue that I'm out, I'm out. There's no way I could put up with this person. So we've created all these reasons for people to mark each other off of their dating lists. I'm like, you got to be a little bit more open. And we need more third spaces. We need people to spend more time together so they can. We've all met that person. You saw pictures of them online. There's absolutely no reason you'd be attracted to them. And you see the way they move, you see the way they laugh, you see their vibe, and you just like, want to be around them. You kind of slowly but surely fall in like, and then maybe fall in lust and then maybe fall in love. And we're not giving young people enough environments to do that. And we're also not creating enough economically viable men. Because the, the truth is, if we're going to have an honest conversation around mating, women made socioeconomically horizontally and up, men horizontally and down. And when the pool of horizontal and up among men keeps shrinking because women are doing better, which by the way, is a great thing, we should do nothing to do that. But the reality is, I don't care how many subscriptions to the Atlantic you have or how much you Read the New York Times. Women want a man and their view of a man is that he makes as much or more money than me. And look, I know there are exceptions, but when the woman starts making more money than the man, he's three times as likely to go on ed drugs. And the likelihood of divorce doubles from the moment the woman starts making more money than that. I don't. Women still look at men in terms of a provider and protector. And so I think there is reason. I don't want to have affirmative action for men. That's too politicized. But I do think we need to massively level up young people such that more young women and young men are more viable economically. Because I don't care. I don't care how charming, how nice, how hard you work. If you're not, if you can't support a potential spouse and her kids, she's just not going to want to have a long term relationship with you.
- [43:40]
B
100%. I could not agree more. This is the truth. But how do you get people to actually implement and execute on that and leave their house and get off of social media and get off of the dating apps and go and do what you just said, which is go to a club, go to a restaurant in real time, get drunk, meet people and do what? You know, what I used to do, you know, when I was young, right? Like, I feel like that whole, that was like what we needed to do. Now everything is just like, they don't, People don't even want. Friends are so isolated from even socialization. People don't even know how to socialize anymore. It's really like you can go. I mean even, I bet when you go to dinner, to a restaurant, just anywhere you look around the people sitting with each other, they're on their phones. And I've been communicating with each other or talking to each other, at least.
- [44:26]
A
The women are out there. I was out, I was out. And someone said, look over there, look at all those women on their phones. I'm like, but you notice it's tables of women. I'm like, do you see any tables of young men? The young men are all home. I mean, at least the women are out. Women, women have much stronger social networks. They take care of themselves. They're in better shape. They're professionally killing it. Globally, you've never seen a group ascend as fast as women. Over the last 40 years, the number of women elected to parliament has doubled. There are now more women globally seeking tertiary education than men. And when you look at some nations discouraged or don't let women go pursue higher ed. That's remarkable. There's never been a cohort in America that's fallen further faster than young men. Men are now four times as likely to kill themselves. It used to be three to one, now it's four to one. They are dropping out of the workforce. They're three times as likely to be addicted, 12 times as likely to be incarcerated. We talk about the opioid addiction problem. It's a male opioid addiction problem. 72% of ODs are men. We have a homeless problem. Well, yeah, but we really have a male homeless problem. Three in four homeless are men. And so what do we have? Young men are really struggling. And here's the hard part. We can fix it, but we have a lot or there are programs to address a lot of these, but we don't have any empathy for them. They're paying the price of my privilege and my father's privilege. They assume that they have the same advantage as I did and they don't. They're not getting into colleges. Women, quite frankly, are not that open. Their sexual and romantic marketplace has been shut up for them. Corporations have figured out that women are more mature and more likely to go to elite college so they don't have the same economic opportunities. The bias is neutral to negative towards them. The education system really discriminates against men. You're twice as likely to be suspended on a behaviorally adjusted basis if you're a male, five times as likely if you're a black male who's in, who works in schools. Now it's between 70 and 80% females. There are more per capita female fighter pilots than there are male kindergarten teachers. So you have, you couple that with the second most single family homes in the world behind Sweden, which is Latin for head by headed by a mother. You have millions of young men who until the age of 25 literally have no men in their lives. And this isn't an insult to the superheroes that are single mothers. I was raised by one of them. But the single point of failure for reverse engineering when a boy comes off the tracks is the following. He loses a male role model and one in six men when they get divorced within three years, no longer have any contact with their kids, and oftentimes aren't geographically close. And you, you have an entire cohort of men of boys who have no men in their lives. And that's when they become much more likely to engage in self harm, much more likely to be incarcerated. Men play a really important role in boys lives. What's interesting is the same study shows that girls have similar outcomes in the single parent household. They're just as likely to go to college, they make the same amount of money. So the net of it is why while boys are physically stronger, they're emotionally and mentally much weaker. And the presence of a male role model and this is a shout out, I'm trying to, I try to get involved in young men's or boys lives. You don't have to be a baller, you just need to be trying to live a virtuous life. And here's the problem. I was on the Bill Maher show and I said if we want, if we want better men, we have to be better men. We need to get involved. I think the ultimate expression of masculinity is to get involved in the life of a child that is near specifically the opportunity as a young boy. And they're everywhere. You barely even need to cast a net and you're going to find that your nanny's kid is struggling or you're going to find that your friend's kid is your co worker at work, that her son is really struggling. You're just going to find these men everywhere, everywhere. The ultimate expression of masculinity is to get involved in their life. And Bill Maher I said this and Bill Maher said oh, I get involved in a 15 year old boy's life and everyone thinks I'm a pervert. And this is so sad. Michael Jackson and the Catholic church have it up for all of us because there's a ton of men out there that for whatever reason maybe they're successful and they have their own kids or maybe they don't have kids and they feel a lot of paternal and fraternal love. They want to help boys and young men out. And I've experienced this firsthand. I had this guy across the hall in the apartments I lived with my mother. Nice guy. He was probably in his late 20s, 30s, introduce himself. He was going horseback riding with his girlfriend, came over and said Scott, want to come horseback riding? She's like it's not a horseback ride. That guy took me horseback riding riding every other week for like a year or two years. This nice guy, Wow. I met a stockbroker. I bought stock when I was 13. This guy Cyro, 50 or 45 years later, Cy and I, Cy and I still exchange text messages and used to give me lessons on the market. Two of my mom's boyfriends stayed in contact with me all the way through college. And that male mentorship was instrumental in me not coming off the tracks. I remember one of them one time saying to me, you know, I had dinner with him and he said, is that pot? Do I smell pot? I'm like, oh yeah. He's like, did you smell him? No, I have a joint in my pocket. And he's like, he's like, okay, look, I love pot, but like, tell me about it. And I had a conversation with him about drugs. You can have that conversation with a man. I couldn't have that conversation with my mom. She just would have freaked out and she couldn't handle it. So look, I'm a big believer that if, if men don't start getting involved in boys lives, that we're not going to solve this problem. And unfortunately there's a lack of empathy. And that void has been filled by some thinly veiled misogynistic voice. The Andrew Tate's of the world, that just say, be a baller, sign up for my crypto universe. Treat women like property, act like a real man. That is not helping. But also society has to recognize that if any other special interest group was killing themselves at four times the rate of the control group, we would move in with programs and opportunities. And there's no empathy for these kids.
- [50:15]
B
Now the sick thing is just about Andrew Tate in that program. Not only are men like are signing up by the droves, but the truth is, and I'm going to get a lot of heat for saying these things, and I do, but like actually women are drawn to those guys. Andrew Tate has no problem finding women. Yeah, there are a lot of women who hate him, but guess what? He's not hurting. And I can name and I know a zillion guys who are similar to him, especially in LA and in New York, who have a ton of money, let's say, and have an attitude and a bravado, Girls throw themselves at them. That is the reality. People don't want to hear it and they think it's not PC. Okay? But unfortunately that actually is what's happening. And it's sad, it is sad. But that's, that's the truth.
- [50:56]
A
But you can't tell people who to be attracted to. And the thing about these guys is that the message actually starts off fine. It starts off positive. Be in shape, be action oriented, make money.
- [51:06]
B
Right.
- [51:06]
A
Or it comes off the track is when you start saying, you know, they start, Amelia, go to. I would never let my girlfriend go out alone, right? She stays home for me. She could sign up for my crypto university owner own a supercar. Like, it's all easy. You can be, you can be a baller like me. And it's like, okay, you're giving these guys no path. You're basically telling them to treat women like property. But yeah, it's really funny, Jen. Whenever I meet with women who like you, I meet with a lot of women. Really attractive, really interesting, high character women. And they'll pull me aside and say, do you have anyone you can set me up with? And I'm like, quite frankly, no. I'm still searching for the unicorn of a nice guy that's single right now that makes a good living. I mean, I know a few of them, but for everyone. I know at least 10 single women. And what's interesting is the 50% of the time, and if they'll look at me and they'll go like, sheepishly, like it's some big inside, like, oh, by the way, I like, really like alpha men. Like, oh, no shit.
- [51:56]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [51:58]
A
You don't want some sensitive guy in a tweed suit watching PBS all day that they wants to talk about his feelings. And his hero is Alan Alda. Like, okay, yeah, words out. The women like men and distinctive. What we read about what people claim as a sensitive man and a new. Okay, fine. Women are attracted to guys who are in shape, who make a lot of money and have a decent amount of facial hair. They essentially want a caveman with an AMEX card.
- [52:20]
B
Yes.
- [52:21]
A
And I'm not talking about what should be, I'm talking about what is. And I, when I talk to young men, I'm like, all right, how are you going to be more attractive to women? Like, what do you have to. Would you want to have sex with you right now, man? I ask these questions like, so what do we need? You need to get in great, bigger, you know, you need to get in great shape. You need to get physically strong. You need to start making money. You need to have a plan. And that is, you don't have to be a baller. You don't have to wait to make a bunch of money, but have a plan, for God's sakes. When someone asks you, what's your plan? Have a plan. You don't even need to know that that is the plan, but have a plan and be tracking towards that plan. And take care of yourself physically. Be kind. Kindness is actually attracted to women. There are three things women are attracted to. The first is the ability to signal resources. The second is intellect. The easiest one, I always say this, the Easiest way to get a woman naked is to make her laugh. And I realize that that's sort of triggering. It's like I feel like, let me impersonate a woman. I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm naked. If you can make a. If you can make a woman laugh, you can hold her hand and more. And then the third thing is kindness. And that is don't be afraid to be a nice guy. Don't be afraid to show other people that you're respectful. Don't be afraid to have manners that is attractive to women. They know if they start thinking about you long term, they start thinking, is this a kind of guy that is going to treat me and my children well. Anyways, I think about this stuff a lot. I'm thinking about writing a book called the Algebra of Mating because I think there is a narrative around there, around how people actually should find each other. And then I think there's what's going on. But the, the, the net of it all right now is an epidemic of loneliness. One out of seven men don't have a single friend. One in four men can name a best friend. People aren't having as much sex. Household formation is going down. Fewer, fewer and fewer people are having children. If it wasn't for immigration, we'd be in population decline. But I think this is sad because when I think about the things that have really been rewarding for me, you know, I'm known for, as a, as a business guy and talking about. But the most rewarding things in my life have been raising kids with someone that I care a great deal about. And the money has been a means to that full stop. It lets me focus on that. But without that, yeah, the money would be great, but I don't think I'd have nearly as much satisfaction. It makes me very sad to think that a lot of women and men who are decent people, high character people, for one reason or another, are going to experience that. I think it's really. I don't know, I think it's upsetting.
- [54:40]
B
I know it is. It's actually very upsetting. And, and, you know, and I think I, I don't see. I don't see how it does get. You should write the book. Actually. I think that would be a great book because, you know, offline or whenever I talk about it, it is like a. Is a. It's a conversation topic that goes on a lot. And I think that. I think a lot of people have, are struggling with it. Not like not only the young generation but even an older like the in their mid-40s, 40s who are struggling, like you said, for every attract, for every eligible active guy, there's not 10 girls, 50 or 100. And unfortunately it's. I don't still with, with technology and AI, all the things, I don't really see it getting better unless people make a concerted effort to change and reframe how they think and do things. But that's that. I mean I want to talk about now we're going to switch gears, we're going to go pivot all the way here to. I have to. I would be remiss. I got to talk about Israel, I got to talk about Gaza and the war. You're one of my favorites to be talking to about this and I want to ask you something and I've been thinking about this a lot about the, you know, the algorithm TikTok especially, you know, 90% or I think 98% of the algorithm is geared towards Palestine, not Israel. How much of this the anti, the Semitism, the vitriol, hate, I think towards Israel is because of the algorithm is pushing certain content. What would you say to that?
- [56:08]
A
Well, okay, so we have a division of the army called psyops and their job is Radio Free Europe, Radio America. Their job is to leverage our assets, our channels and spread information that is pro America. That's called propaganda. The greatest propaganda tool in history is, is controlled and influenced by the CCP. It's called TikTok, the frame through which people under the age of 25 see the world. Is this, this platform that's controlled or influenced by the CCP? 51% of kids under the age of 25 say they're either check several times a day or are constantly on TikTok. And if you look at the data, for every one pro Israel video served on TikTok, 52 pro Palestine videos are served. You think, well Scott, that's just young people or talented creators. You're being paranoid. And the algorithm picks up on it and exponentially serves more videos. There's nothing sinister. Well, okay, the control group would be Reels, which is the closest thing to TikTok. It's nowhere near that ratio. It's much more indicative of actually how young people feel. Actually the young. The latest survey I saw is that 55% of young people are actually pro Israel and 45% are pro Palestine. The impression we have because of this, what I call zombie apocalypse of useful idiots on campus, is that it's 9010. It's not. They're more vocal that the media loves to talk about what's going on at Colombia. They don't want to talk about. An Israeli girl was just elected president there. I've been at NYU. 99% of the kids are just going to class and trying to get. Trying to graduate. But there's definitely something going on and on the part of the ccp. I don't even think it's anti Semitism. I think it's their desire to polarize us and divide us. They can't beat us economically, they can't beat us militarily, so divide us. If. If people our age all were pro Hamas and young people were pro Israel, I think they'd be serving pro Israel content. I don't think it's inherently anti Semitic. It's just anti American. They just want to polarize us. Now, there's a lot of things adding up to what ultimately becomes what I would call anti Israel. I don't like to use the word anti Semitic because I think that it's hard to accuse people of hating Jews. I think people will constantly say there's a difference between being anti Israel and anti Semitic. And I get it. What I'll call it is a little a level of double standards that is just striking that they don't even recognize. I had an argument with my co host on Pivot literally an hour and a half ago. I had said I had my win for the week. We do wins and fails was the dramatic and heroic rescue of these four hostages. And I said, okay, Israel's, you know, the Gaza Health Ministry is reporting 225 deaths, which means it was somewhere between 0 and 225. These numbers are never accurate. And she got very upset and said, people died here. Okay, the point I am making is that if you see a number from the Gaza Health Ministry, why on earth would the media keep citing these numbers when they know they're wrong and know they will inflate the number of children killed and people under the age of 18. If any other group was citing inaccurate data this consistently, they would no longer cite that data. And the reason Israel doesn't produce numbers is because they take the numbers seriously and they realize they can't determine the number of people killed for months at a time. The differences here, in my view, are just so striking, and I'm remiss to call them anti Semitic, what I would call them as anti Israel, that everybody, you get shouted down. I mean, people are really upset with me. I am not in favor of a truce, and that is okay, it's 1944. We have turned back Hitler. Post D day, we are bombing Dresden and Hamburg. It is fucking horrific what we are doing to these people. We are killing women and children. Right? We killed 45,000 people in Hamburg. 44. Five of them were civilians. We killed 100,000 people in one night in the firebombing of Tokyo. If they'd asked for a truce and we were winning the war and they held our hostages, would we have said, okay, let's give the Imperial army and the Third Reich a chance to regroup? When have we decided after being savagely attacked, that we're going to hold up and give them a chance to regroup? Now, some people would say, scott, you're never going to do it. You can't kill Hamas. It's an idea. And I'm like, bullshit. We killed communism, we killed fascism. I mean, this sounds savage. They have invited war, and Israel has accepted their invitation. If the UAE and Qatar and the US and Israel come to a solution that involves a truce and can guarantee the security of Israel, I'm all for it. Nobody wants to see this killing continue. Palestine now has the largest concentration of child amputees in the world. It is horrific. If we can figure out something that guarantees Israel's safety, security, I'm all for it. Until then, my attitude is we wage war and I say we generously. And people say, you're comparing Hamas to Nazis. And I'm like, that's unfair to Nazis. The Nazis didn't use civilians as camouflage or ammunition. They used to send their kids into the country. That Nazi guards had had psychological trauma from working in the camps. The Hamas combatants and fighters are leaving voicemails for their parents shouting in glee. So I have what I call a pretty. I mean, I hate to use this term, but a pretty ugly view of this. And that is. I don't understand. Every nation that's attacked this viciously is allowed to fight back to one condition. Unconditional surrender. Lay down your arms. All eyes on Rafah. All eyes on the hostages. I just don't. The way the Western media frames this conflict is so perverted and queered. If a Mexican cartel that was super religious had been elected to run Mexico, and they said, you know what? These white evangelicals in Texas have been savages to us. Do you see what they do to our youth? Young kids looking for a better life? They put them in cages. All of these things are true. They shoot at people, at the just looking for a better life. They round them up on horseback so we're going to build tunnels and we're going to incur into Texas on a per capita basis. Israel has 10 million, we have 350 million. We're going to kill, we're going to slaughter the entire community of the University of Texas Austin, 35,000 people. And on the way back, we're going to take the freshman class of SMU hostage and put them under Mexico City and tunnels. What would we do to Mexico? What would we do? It would be the great radiated Sonora parking lot. And when the whole world and the UN or the ICC was saying save the hospital in Playa del Carmen, do you think we would give a flying fuck? Do you think we would be worried about collateral damage? And if you look at this war, when the real numbers start to bubble up, the humanity or the targeting or whatever you want to call this of this war, According to John Spencer, who runs the Urban Warfare Institute at West Point, the ratio of civilians killed to combatants is lower here than it was in Germany, was in Japan, was in Mosul, has been in almost any war anyone can can compare it to. The Israelis are prosecuting this war more, quote unquote, humanely than any other western democracy has prosecuted a war. I hope there's a ceasefire that every all parties are comfortable with. Be clear. America would not sign up for a ceasefire if anything resembling what had happened to the Israelis had happened to us. It is. And also, Jen, you've spoken out. I'm sick of seeing you. Debra Messing and Jessica Seinfeld. I am really disappointed that more Jews aren't speaking out and there's such a blowback because social media likes the algorithm and young people like the virtue signal. And some young people do feel very passionate about the issue. And we at universities have indoctrinated them into an orthodoxy that there's the oppressor and the oppressed and the way you identify oppressors is how white and how rich they are. And ground zero for white and rich in terms of perception is Israel and Jews. I get it. I was stupid once. I'm more forgiving of them. These professors at my university in Columbia joining hands with them. Let me get this you don't have the critical thinking to not show empathy for an ideology that if it got traction in the United States, would see our gay students thrown off a roof and women would be treated like property and there'd be gender apartheid. Well, guess what, boss, you're not paying us. You're not 19, you should be summarily fired. And they're like, well, what about first Amendment, First Amendment, knock yourself out. Go to Washington Square park and say whatever you want. There's no first Amendment at a private employer. It just strikes me that some of my colleagues think that under the notion of social protest they can act like such village idiots and we have an obligation to put up with it. I'm talking to the regents of the University of California. I think some students should be suspended or expelled. We should cut a wide berth for them, forgive a lot of them. The people who deserve to be swiftly and crisply punished are faculty who've gotten in the way of commencement, gotten in the way of our mission of educated students. Anyway, I am going way off script here. I have found at every turn I find so few issues where you can have this level of moral clarity. I think we're going to look back on this and we're going to think, Jesus, just that the both side ism here is so striking, is so unusual and again, it just all comes down to the same thing. If it's non white people creating, killing people, whatever it's page seven. If it's Jews engaging, I mean BBC4, four hostages rescued. First it was released, then they changed the word to rescue and then the next thing, 247 people, Palestinians killed. Well, who's saying 247? Well, it's a source that we keep revising down the number. So look, I don't, I don't, I find this all very frustrating. I find it all totally two sided. I am shocked by what's going on. Absolutely shocked. The hopeful thing is that I'd like to think that the Kingdom is going to normalize relations with Israel which will create the ultimate iron dome. I mean, Jesus Christ, Jordan and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia were coordinating with Israel to shoot down the 300 projectiles coming in from Iran. What does the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Jordan know that these far left groups on campuses don't know? They want nothing to do with Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis. They realize they bring chaos and violence. So I am discouraged. But at the same time I think the Biden administration has been steadfast mostly in their support. Some of their statements have made no sense to me. But we do have to. A Ford class carrier sitting off the coast of the Mediterranean. I'm hopeful that we're going to come to some sort of solution eventually. But I want to, you know, I want to be clear. I'm not sure if I were Israel right now I would take a truce or ceasefire. Excuse me.
- [66:57]
B
No, I agree. And listen, everything, listen you know how I agree with you and the couple of things I want to ask you because you're in the media, you deal with a lot like your partner Kara Swisher, I think also she's a journalist and you were having this conversation with her earlier. You said, I mean why. I guess I'm just asking you podcasts or not, like why is the media so against the Israelis? And you're saying it's not anti Semitism, it's anti Israel. I think it's the same thing. And my other question is the self hating Jews. Like to me these are the most frustrating. I can't, I don't understand it. Just as a human, I don't understand these two things. You know one of the hostages that Noah, the one that really, the really famous one, she was being held for the last eight months in a photojournalist's house within like the Gazan people who is a photojournalist for Al Jazeera.
- [67:48]
A
You don't find that to be fair. He was only credited on one article. But yeah, I don't people have sympathy for these people. It's pretty dangerous work to house hostages.
- [67:57]
B
I mean for these people, they came out and pillaged after the Hamas massacre. You know that, right?
- [68:04]
A
Like, yeah, we're of like minds on this. Look, I, I think a lot of people in the media, look, this is the first war being prosecuted on TikTok. War is horrific. The America decided to have a media blackout. People think that those 400,000 people who died in Iraq and Afghanistan just kind of floated away. Yeah, war, war is horrific. And we're seeing that up front. And maybe that'll be a good thing that over time we, we're more measured around war. When you incur the way you did into a nation like this. Oh, let me go back. I do think you can be anti Israel without being anti Semitic. I do think that Netanyahu and there's a lot of people who are anti Israel in Israel right now in terms of the 30, 30% support of Netanyahu. I want to move to solutions. Normalize relations with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Some sort of multilateral force that guarantees Israeli security. I'm all for making massive investments to upgrade Palestine or excuse me, upgrade Gaza such that these people can live in some sort of dignity and that Israel has security. I want to get to the next side of this. I also think that we have to get Netanyahu out. 73 war. There was a reckoning. That's when Golda Meir came into power. I think we have to turn the page and Israel needs to start working on its brand again. The hostage rescue is great for the brand, them fighting back. I actually think long term is good for their brand. But until we get Netanyahu out, in my view, and I'm not telling Israel what to do because they're a sovereign nation, they get to pick their own leaders. But the reality is he has struck a deal with the extremists in his in Israel. And they have been, in my view, given way more oxygen and legitimacy to some very bigoted members at Knesset. And we used to be the David, now we're seen as a Goliath. We've got to go back to being the David. So it is a complicated, ugly situation. But the way the Western media frames it all is just incredibly strange to me. I don't, I don't fully understand it. Even my podcast co host, she'll correct me on stuff. I find she's very exacting around this issue when it comes to data and I think it comes from a good place. I think she wants to be empathetic, realizing the horrors of war. But this has taken me from center left. I won't say center right because the righteous, so batshit crazy. I can't get over how, just how the far left is behaving here. I just can't get over it. I just don't get it. And I think it's a lot of academics fault. I think we've trained a younger generation to believe that you're either an oppressor or oppressor. And somehow we've conflated white rich people with oppressors. And that is shorthand for Jews in Israel. So anyways, a huge word salad. I'm hopeful that we can get to the other side of this sooner rather than later.
- [70:37]
B
I believe that actually because of this, Donald Trump is going to win. Even as, you know, even though he's convicted, he will, he'll win, might by a landslide. Because I think he's. This just, this gave him the election personally for all these people that, I mean I've spoken to who absolutely hated him with the vengeance are actually now swung the other way.
- [71:00]
A
This is what I would do. I mean, I'm in brand of communications. If I were, if I were the Republican Party, I would just show footage of what's happened on campuses. I mean this is what happens when liberal orthodoxy and democratic values take over our institutions. And I would show all of these, all of these, the worst moments at campuses. And unfortunately the media has blown it up. It's. There's been 2,300 arrests. Somewhere between 40 and 60% weren't even students. So it's been totally blown out of proportion. But there have been some horrific moments that moderates will look at and go, wow, the Democrats have really lost their shit here. Or I would just show what it's like in downtown la, Portland and Seattle. These are San Francisco, these very Democratic cities. I think you're right. I think Israel, what's happened in terms of the reaction of the US Is going to hugely favor Republicans. I mean, I'm, I'm questioning if, if Republicans had been the Republicans from the 80s and 90s, I'd be a Republican right now. I'm fine with John McCain. I'm fine with Mitt Romney. They've gone so batshit crazy, I can't be anywhere near them. But the folks on the Democratic side, the squad, showing sympathy for terrorists for no other reason than just, as far as I can see, just bigotry. I think it's, I think it's, I think you might be right. I hate to admit it. I'm going to canvas for Biden. I'm going to give money, I'm going to, I'm going to do everything I can, but this is going to hurt us big time, massively.
- [72:23]
B
Is Cara your partner? Is she Jewish or.
- [72:25]
A
No, no, Kara's not Jewish. She's. Her wife. Her wife is Jewish. And, and, and by the way, I, I don't think, I think her views are very empathetic. I think she wants to be balanced. I think she wants to make sure that we have our data correct. But I find the media. I think even though the way the White House saved the hospital, we need, we need to save our empathy of Iraq. I'm like, okay, the only, the only things here are save the hostages. There needs to be unconditional surrender of Hamas. I don't, that's the only thing I would repeat over and over.
- [72:57]
B
Right, so then why would you even canvass for Biden? Is it because it's like the, you don't have options right now? Like, what about rfk? What do you think of him?
- [73:05]
A
He's an anti vaxxer. There's no way. I mean, death, disease and disability for children, is that what you want? He wanted to come on my podcast and I wouldn't bring him on because I don't want to platform those views. And it's too bad because I think he's very good on Israel. I think he's very good on the Environment. But I also want to be clear on Biden. Within hours of the attack, Biden deployed the SS carrier strike force Ford thousands of Marines. And I think he was, he's basically said Hezbollah and Iran don't fuck with Israel. I do think that on the big picture stuff, America has gotten it right. And I think the Biden administration does deserve credit. Let me go this way. What world leader has been more supportive of Israel than Biden?
- [73:42]
B
You mean right now? Probably none, but I mean, but then why do you think that the right and Donald Trump will win then if you think that people think that way? I think most people, if you would ask them who are pro Israel, would think that Biden is kind of a joke.
- [73:58]
A
That's fair. I. Look, elections are a function of perception, not reality. But the reality is, is that Biden did immediately, immediately deploy enormous firepower. Has coordinated, by the way, American intelligence was involved in the rescue of those hostages when, when the rubber meets the road in terms of our security apparatus, our resources, our firepower, our brave men and women in uniform who he has put in harm's way sitting off the coast in the Mediterranean.
- [74:24]
B
True.
- [74:24]
A
Nobody else, nobody else in the world has come to Israel's aid like that. And he's under huge pressure from the far left, but I don't think he gets the credit he deserves. And the reason I'm not voting for Trump, there's the whole rape thing, which kind of puts me off of him, but I think he's an idiot. I don't think he has the respect of the global community. And I think him trying to do anything geopolitically is a short term. It's like a cat chasing a red dot. I don't think anyone takes him seriously. I don't think you get anything done. So I. Perfect is not on the menu here. I would love to see someone else at the convention nominated. But if it's Biden, you know, in a, you know, on life support, as long as he's got his team around him, yeah, I'm going to work very hard to try and ensure that he's reelected. This is stupidity, criminality, lack of empathy. Don't work as president.
- [75:17]
B
And how about Kamala Harris? If something happens to Joe Biden, who, who may be on life support pretty soon, who knows, she takes over and she's not, she hasn't really been that supportive, let's say, of Israel. And she's married to a Jewish guy, by the way.
- [75:34]
A
Look, this is a classic example of someone being promoted out of her strength. I Thought she was a fantastic, I thought she was really strong as a senator, Attorney general, as a vice president. She just hasn't worked. She just hasn't resonated with the public things around bodily autonomy, Black Lives Matter, this rape trial. I mean, she's an attorney general. She, she could have spoken to Trump's, you know, legal woes. And the reality is her voice just hasn't resonated, so there's just no getting around it. Vice President Harris has been a disappointment, and I, I, I thought she was a great senator. She has an incredibly impressive record. She just hasn't resonated as a vp. We're in a terrible spot right now because the biggest burn or rub against Biden is in Israel. I think by the time the election comes around, it probably won't be that big a deal. It's really present for us, but I think most people have forgotten about it by the time the election comes around. The thing that was really hurting him is his age and the fact that he comes across as feeble. And here's the thing. Biology always wins. The best we can hope for is that it doesn't get worse. And it always does. It always does. I'm working out so fucking hard. I'm taking creatine, testosterone, and I'm still getting weaker. Jen. Biology always wins. Always wins.
- [76:44]
B
It does. I'll send you some stuff, actually, stay on. But, yeah, you're right. By the way, biology, you can't fight biology. And also, by the way, Donald Trump is no spring chicken either. How old is he? 76, 75.
- [76:57]
A
But people, 77.
- [76:58]
B
70. Okay. And how old is Biden? They're not that far off in age.
- [77:02]
A
But I mean, the reality is, I try to call balls and strikes. Biden just comes across as a lot older.
- [77:08]
B
Does he ever, you, it's, it's actually, I'm uncomfortable watching him. I feel like someone should, like, take, like, put him, let him have a nap. Like, I don't, it's a, it's a, it's uncomfortable, literally, because I won't be.
- [77:21]
A
Able to watch the debates.
- [77:23]
B
Yeah.
- [77:23]
A
I'm so worried that. About a McConnell moment.
- [77:27]
B
Oh.
- [77:27]
A
I mean, I really, I think, I think anyone, I don't understand how anyone with daughters could ever vote for Donald Trump. I don't like the man. I think he's an awful person. I think Biden is a really good man. I think he's actually been a good president. I think he surrounds himself with good people. Greatness is in the agency of others. I like the chips act The Infrastructure Act. I think he's actually on the whole, been good on Israel. I think he has good instincts. I think he's a good man. If he had said. If he had picked Whitmer Newsom Pritzker as his vp and it said last year, folks, I have served. I have served. It's time for me to spend time with my grandkids and I'm endorsing my VP candidate, you know, whoever it is. I think he would have gone out in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. Instead, he might put the worst president in history back in office. And it's the same narcissism that played Ruth Bader Ginsburg. We have lost bodily autonomy for women because of her narcissism. It's the reason we have too many Republican judges sitting because of Senator Feinstein's narcissism. You know, it is a. It is a disease. It is. It was time for him to move on. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a move to. If something happens to nominate someone else at the convention, we'll see. But we are in, in. We are in interesting times. And it feels pretty good actually right now to live in London. Yeah, I don't know anything about the politics and don't want to know anything.
- [78:50]
B
I don't blame. I mean, listen, I don't blame you, but I've taken up so much of your time and I always enjoy talking to you. Thank you for. No, I really appreciate your. Your time. You're always so thoughtful in your conversation and I always learned something. So let me tell everyone again, you guys, the book out the Algebra of Wealth, I.
- [79:09]
A
It.
- [79:09]
B
It really is a fantastic. It's a great book. You know what else I love about it? It's like a coffee table book. You can put it down, pick it right back up and always get something out of it. Like, it's not something you have to read all in one. And it's a great book to always. I think I to go back to and like, check out for some, you know, to kind of get a better. A reminder of something and I really like it. So people pick it up. Where else can people see you and find you now besides your 97 podcast? The pivot. It's called one's pivot. Pivot. One's Prop G. What's the new one called?
- [79:39]
A
You know, it's probably Margaret. It's all the. Oh, it's all the same, Jen. I'm everywhere you are. There's no place to hide. There's no place to hug.
- [79:49]
B
There is. And I'm going to send you a bunch of stuff. I got to give you some true Niagen. Have you taken that before?
- [79:53]
A
Send it. I'll take anything.
- [79:55]
B
Okay.
- [79:56]
A
Literally, I'll shoot up. I'll take anything. I'm the guy who's like, oh, I don't care what it is.
- [80:01]
B
Okay, good. Text. You're going to text me your address and then I'll. I'm going to send you a boatload of stuff. I'm going to send you protein shakes by slate. I'm going to send you. I'm going to send you just a magic mind. You're going to be all. All longevity up. You'll live to 150.
- [80:15]
A
You won't recognize me the next time you see me. I just.
- [80:18]
B
Right.
- [80:19]
A
As long as I look like Brad Pitt. Just send me that protein shake. Whatever you want.
- [80:22]
B
You want that concoction?
- [80:23]
A
I want that look.
- [80:24]
B
Okay, good. I'll get it for you. Thank you.
- [80:27]
A
Thanks, Jen. Congrats on your success.
- [80:29]
B
Oh, my gosh, you too. Thank you.