Episode 427: Lisa Nichols: The Art and Science of Impactful Communication + Audience Connection Techniques

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle
Episode 427: Lisa Nichols: The Art and Science of Impactful Communication + Audience Connection Techniques
Release Date: February 25, 2025

In Episode 427 of Habits and Hustle, host Jennifer Cohen engages in a profound and enlightening conversation with renowned motivational speaker and transformation expert, Lisa Nichols. The episode delves deep into Lisa's personal journey, her mastery of impactful communication, and the techniques that make her a standout figure in the realm of personal development.

---

1. Lisa Nichols' Inspirational Journey

Early Life and Overcoming Adversity

Lisa begins by sharing her humble beginnings and the challenges she faced growing up in South Central Los Angeles. Despite an outwardly stable family life, Lisa experienced significant turmoil, including frequent fights while commuting home from school and the incarceration of her son's father when her son was just eight months old. These experiences plunged her into a state of constant worry and anxiety.

"My son's father is still in prison... I ended up having to get on government's assistance to take care of my son."
[06:58]

Discovering Her Voice and Authenticity

Lisa emphasizes the importance of authenticity, sharing how she struggled with self-acceptance and had to fight for the clarity and conviction that define her today.

"I had to discover and accept me and then give myself permission to have a voice of value."
[04:53]

---

2. The Revelation of Storytelling in Transformation

From Self-Doubt to Unshakable Confidence

Lisa recounts her transformative moment at an entrepreneurs' conference 28 years ago, where Jack Canfield recognized her gift of storytelling. Despite facing academic struggles and discouraging feedback from teachers, this encounter ignited her passion for impactful communication.

"When Jack Canfield told me, 'You've got a gift,' I didn't accept it immediately... It took me years to embrace that this was worthy of focusing on."
[11:38]

Creating the Science of Unforgettable Speaking

Driven by a desire to inspire and connect deeply with her audience, Lisa developed a framework she calls the "Science of Unforgettable Speaking." This framework integrates both the art and science of storytelling, enabling speakers to create meaningful and memorable connections with their audiences.

---

3. Key Techniques for Impactful Communication

A. Audience Connection Formula

Lisa introduces the Audience Connection Formula, a technique that transforms a monologue into a dialogue by engaging the audience effectively.

"Audience connection is about bringing the audience along with you. It's 'me,' then 'we,' then 'you.'"
[45:12]

B. Cadence and Iteration Flow

This technique involves using rhythmic patterns and repetition to create a poetic flow that captivates listeners.

"Iteration and cadence flow help create a rhythm that the audience begins to lean into."
[46:33]

C. Verbal Highlights

Lisa explains how varying tone and emphasis can make key points stand out without relying on volume or speed.

"Verbal highlights are about making a distinction with your words. It's how you say it, not just what you say."
[54:03]

D. Scooping and Bridging

Scooping involves sharing personal stories in a way that listeners can see themselves in them, while bridging connects these stories to the core message seamlessly.

"Scooping is telling your story authentically but broadening it so others can find a part of themselves in it."
[57:05]

---

4. Overcoming Personal Struggles and Maintaining Hope

Navigating Through an Abusive Relationship

Lisa bravely shares her experience of being in an abusive relationship and how it propelled her to seek deeper self-awareness and healing. This period was a catalyst for her commitment to personal transformation and helping others do the same.

"The catalyst of me being diagnosed as clinically depressed was... embracing and swallowing that I was now an abused woman."
[26:10]

Maintaining Hope Amidst Challenges

Lisa emphasizes the power of hope and incremental progress, encouraging listeners to take small steps towards their goals even when feeling hopeless.

"Let’s just take one more step. One step today."
[34:03]

"Hope is priceless. It’s not over until it’s over."
[34:31]

---

5. Speaker Development and Legacy

Building a Speaker Framework

Lisa discusses her efforts to systematize her speaking techniques into teachable frameworks, allowing others to become effective and unforgettable speakers. She highlights the importance of providing actionable steps and blueprints rather than just inspirational content.

"If experts offer possibilities without blueprints, they fear you'll stop coming to them and stop giving them your money."
[95:52]

Creating a Legacy through Impactful Communication

Looking ahead, Lisa is focused on building a legacy by helping as many individuals as possible develop their communication skills, ensuring that her impact continues to grow.

"I want people to feel like it's not over until it's over. That they’re not alone. This is just chapter five in a chapter book."
[34:32]

---

6. Notable Quotes

• "My conviction is unshakable, because I fought for this clarity. This clarity ain't for sale."
  Lisa Nichols, [04:53]

• "At the end of our life, when you look back, you want to read your story and keep reading."
  Lisa Nichols, [10:22]

• "When you come up with a list and start playing with the words, you realize most people are using the same ones. That's why they're boring."
  Lisa Nichols, [51:08]

• "Transformation training isn’t just about speaking; it's about self-discovery so you can give more of yourself to others."
  Lisa Nichols, [18:03]

---

7. Conclusion and Final Insights

The episode concludes with Lisa expressing her dedication to empowering others through effective communication. She underscores the necessity of integrating both artistic and scientific approaches to speaking, ensuring messages resonate deeply and drive meaningful change.

"If you can dance art and science, you'll get them both always."
Lisa Nichols, [91:56]

"Application births outcomes. It's like an athlete. You have to build your glutes and your hams and your quads and your calves."
Lisa Nichols, [98:27]

Jennifer Cohen wraps up the conversation by highlighting the tangible techniques Lisa shared, emphasizing their applicability for listeners seeking to enhance their communication skills and make a lasting impact.

---

Join the Journey

For listeners inspired by Lisa Nichols' insights and eager to develop their own impactful communication skills, visit motivatingthemasses.com to take her specialized quiz and discover where you stand on your speaking journey.

---

This detailed summary captures the essence of Lisa Nichols' transformative conversation on Habits and Hustle, offering listeners valuable insights and actionable techniques to enhance their communication and personal development journeys.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[B]

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan living better and longer, there are very few non negotiables. One of them quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous. Momentous goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dietitians across the country. Here's the thing. They don't sell every supplement under the sun because they believe in nailing the basics with rock solid consistency. And those basics are protein and creatine. Momentous sources. Creapure, the purest form of creatine monohydrate available. An absolute must for both men and women who want peak physical and cognitive performance. So if you're serious about leveling up, go to livemomentous.com and use code Jen for 20% off. Just act now. Start today. Jen for 20% off livemomentous.com so today on the podcast, we have the incredible Lisa Nichols. You guys, I am not kidding you. This woman, when she speaks, it is next level. You really are.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Like, when, like, the word motivational speaker is such a overused, so stupid hashtag, it's, it's horrible.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I, I, I hate using it, I hate saying it. I hate these, like, trendy hashtagy words. But, like, I don't even know the euphemism to describe what you talk about because I can go through and I don't ever do this, but the reason why I even, like, was so, like, adamant to get Lisa on this show.

[A]

Is, and thank you for your persistency.

[B]

Like, how can I not be is because whenever I saw, like, randomly one time I was on YouTube and something that you did showed up just randomly. And it was so powerful and so good. It was this clip that you were talking about, like, someone's perception of you.

[A]

Ain't none of your business.

[B]

Is none of your business. And that I was like, wow. And the way it's not even what you said, it's how you said it was so powerful. The conviction, the conviction, the tone, the body language, everything about your spirit speaking just, like, hooked me. And I went down that, that rabbit hole about you. And I'm like, oh, my God, I need to meet this woman. Because she is, like, Literally the real deal. Because in a world. And you know this.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Most people are not the real. There's zero authenticity in a world that's supposed to be authentic.

[A]

They market well.

[B]

It's all marketing. They market well, but there's. There's, like, no substance and there's no depth at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So which is why I. I'm so happy you're on the show.

[A]

Everyone's snorkeling and you want to scuba dive again.

[B]

Another perfect. This is you. This. You should just write a book of great analogies. This is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this. Before we even go into anything, like, have you always had this gift of wordsmithing and creating these super impactful ways to resonate and impact people?

[A]

No, I needed to discover Lisa first. First of all, I just have to start and pay homage to you. No, thank you for showing up, searching for authenticity. Thank you for being hungry for something deeper than surface, because it allows us unicorns to find each other and go, okay, oxygen, you know, water, realness. So thank you. Because it gets lonely in the universe and amongst. You know, always say, listen, I woke up a unicorn. I just take my horn off and act like a horse so y'all don't feel so uncomfortable in my presence. And so when you get around another unicorn, you're like, oh, okay, hold on. Let me screw my horn back on so we can just sit and have a real conversation. So, no, I wasn't always that. What you. What you resonate with is the awareness of the work I had to do to get to my level of certainty. Because, you know, you've been on that journey yourself. And so it's the. We have a soul connection of similarity that we haven't talked about yet. It's a natural draw. It's the pheromones of authenticity. It's just that thing. Thing. Right. And so I can't say I've always been this way, because I was busy trying to, at one point, get my own oxygen. I was busy at one point trying to affirm that I was worthy of having a message like the one you saw. Even in my mocha skin with my full lips and my round hips and my kinky hair in a world that didn't say I was beautiful. I had to discover and accept me and then give myself permission to have a voice of value. That was a journey I wasn't overnight. Which is why my conviction is unshakable, because I fought for this clarity. This clarity ain't for sale. It ain't for bargain. It ain't for marketing. I. I'm not doing it for likes, which is what makes people like it. They go, mm, mm. Seem like she not. She not asking permission to be her. And we all want that. Even those who are trying to market the next gimmick, they would. They wish they can get up one morning and just discover themselves. I do. I do believe that. And so my job, in whatever way I can, in my most humble way, is to give examples of what I've discovered as possible and then to still learn, too, so.

[B]

Well, you just said something at the beginning, which was like, I want to talk about this on the podcast that you came from. Really humble beginnings.

[A]

Humble.

[B]

I mean, and that's not say. And that's like being polite.

[A]

That's putting it nice. Yeah. And I gotta say, I have an amazing mom and an incredible dad. And so on the outside, you look at me and, you know, we kind of like the Black Brady Bunch, you know, like, there wasn't a lot of chaos in our house. We had the dog, and we had the white picket fence, and we had the great family. But I lived in South Central la, and I had three fights a week to get home from school. And at a very early age, I lived in fight or flight. When I left my house, it was chaotic, and in my home, it was safe, but I had to leave my house every day. And so I grew up in this energy of worry and anxiety. And then when I had my son years later, my son's father went to prison when he was 5, 8 months old. And that took me on a spiral. And I wish it didn't, but I had spent all of my high school years and my late middle school years avoiding relationships because I didn't want to get tethered to the neighborhood.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. Real talk.

[B]

What did your husband go to jail for?

[A]

My husband.

[B]

Not my or your son's father.

[A]

I don't know. What's funny is people often ask that. And what I said to him when we were dating is, there's a calling on my life. I'm not clear what it is, but I can feel it. So I know we both are born and raised in la, but I keep my nose clean here. And if you are to go to jail for anything, you're on your own. I don't do jail. I'm not a jailhouse girlfriend. So trust me when I say I'm gonna keep my promise. You go in, you're on your own. So I. I am honest with you when I tell you I don't know because when it happened, I needed to live my life and continue going in the direction that I knew my life was supposed to go in. So my son is 30 and my son's father is still in prison. And my son's father, I have to say, is a brilliant man because he's authored 26 now, 26 books from prison. 26. His first seven books were authored before I authored my first book. So it is not for lack of awareness and brilliance. It's environment. Environment and influence. And, you know, the three strikes law didn't start out fair, but it made it easy to put people away. So I say all that to say I had this pile of reasons for me to feel shame, blame, regret, anger, fear. And then on top of that, I end up having to get on government's assistance to take care of my son. And so now I have back in the day. Back in the day, when you had food stamp booklets, I got my food stamp booklets. I got my WIC card. W I C Women, infant and children. Free cheese, free pasta, free butter. I will forever be grateful for those programs, but I always had shame because I needed them. And so when you look at Lisa, who she is today, this was a radical decision, girl, to go, hold on. My past does not equal my future. And this chapter is not the end of my story. And no one else holds the pen to write my story but me. And though chapter four is funky and messy, baby, chapter 24 is still coming. And that's what you felt when you saw me. And that's what I try to give every time I open my mouth. Because someone's in their chapter four or they're 14 or they're 20. Wherever you are in your chapter, let's make the next one delicious, even more so than the last one, even if it were messy. Because at the end of our life, Jennifer, I believe we want to sit back and read our story. We want to share our story with someone else and when they're reading, because this is what it feels like for me. Someone's reading the story when I only had $11.42 in the bank. Someone's reading that story of when I was at the ATM at 7:11 in Inglewood. Right? Right. Someone's reading that story of when I didn't have money to. To buy Pampers for Jelani, so I had to wrap my son in a towel of various towels for two days. That's messy. You got one job as a parent. Protect your baby. When someone reads that story, Jennifer, I want to be able to sit back and go, keep reading.

[B]

That's such a good.

[A]

Don't stop yet.

[B]

See, this is what I'm saying. Like, you're the best. Like. Like, this is what I mean, though. This is your gift. Like, your storytelling is a gift because that can happen to lots of people, but they don't have the ability to the. Like you. You're. You're a great orator. Thank you. So you must have had. Let's go back to all those years ago. What was the first step into being like, okay, I'm not going to play. I'm not going to be a victim. I'm not going to allow my past to dictate my present or my future. What did you. Did you. Did you have like an inkling or did you know that you had a talent in this, where you like went in what was like your. Give me the evolution of how you became.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You obviously went from here A to Z. What was the. What was A to B?

[A]

I get it, sis. There's no way I would keep you hostage and not showing you that middle point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for years I didn't know how to articulate it, Just so you know. So I'm grateful that we're here now because for years people have been telling me. And when I say people, like people whose books we read as young adults. You know, the first time I was told by someone I admired that I had a gift, it was Jack Canfield.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Right. So just go straight to the top. Right. And he said, how did he know?

[B]

How did he meet you?

[A]

So I was at a conference that I borrowed money to go to. Like, I like, sold everything I could. Any if it wasn't nailed down, I sold it to be able to afford this entrepreneurs conference. And I could barely, like, I couldn't spell entrepreneur, right? I'm like, I think that's me.

[B]

How many years ago are we talking?

[A]

We are talking 28.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know how you measure things by the age of my child, he was two.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So it was 28 years ago. I'm late 20s, early 30s and I'm just. I'm late 20s and I'm. I know I have something in me. I could feel it. And I would do things in LA. Like when this 1992 civil unrest occurred, when LA was burning down and I was an activist, I would get in the streets, I was ignorance on fire. I didn't know what I was fighting for, but we gonna fight the system. And I remember being in a march and I was fighting for them not to provide loans to the liquor store owners to rebuild liquor stores in the community that instead build grocery stores. That was my first thing. Like don't build another liquor store on another corner. Build a grocery store. So that was my first thing. And I'm no more liquor stores. No more liquor stores. And the organizer of this march down Western Boulevard noticed me and then gives me the bullhorn. No more liquor stores. I'm like, okay, I got this. Then the organizer's boss puts me up on the truck and now I'm on the truck. By the time we get to the rally, the councilman knows that I'm leading. I don't know how I'm leading this march. I started seeing this happening over and over again. Sometimes your gifts will reveal themselves to others before you're clear on them. Yeah, because I still had all my self doubt. I still am dealing with the fact that at 25, I discovered that I'm functionally dyslexic. So my 12 years in school. My 12 years in in school was hell.

[B]

I bet.

[A]

So I wasn't building on this great self esteem experience. My math teacher at Dorsey High School gave me a D to pass me in math because he said I was nice. I took the D. Yeah, thank you very much. That's how much I struggle. So here I am academically struggling my entire life not knowing that I'm flipping all my words. So I'm not building this on. I see a gift in me my first year. Well, let me not mislead you. My first and my last year in college, I got a fail in English and my English teacher said in front of the entire classroom, lisa, you have to be the weakest writer I've ever met in my entire life. And at 19, to me she was really old. She was like 42. Right. She was a fossil that same year. And I'm only telling this so you can understand what I had to climb over. My speech teacher that same year said, Ms. Nichols, quote, unquote, I recommend you never speak in public, that you get a desk job. And gave me a D. So I didn't see because I kept saying, I'm not. It can't. I can't be this good. And so as I began to open up, I went to this conference and I'm at this conference and I'm sharing a poem with someone and the CEO of the conference is standing within earshot and looks at me, a woman, she says, would you like to share that poem on stage? And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. And I shared the poem on stage. Now, mind you, there are 800 people in the audience, 760 at least, are older white men. My scary person. For me, older white men represented the educational system that wasn't kind to me and the justice system that wasn't kind to me or anyone I knew. So I'm in front of my scary, hairy person, and I do the poem, and I see people doing this, and I'm wondering. I just see a lot of this, and I wonder what's falling from the sky, like, what is happening? Only to find out later, those were tears. First sign of the superpower. Then Jack Canfield comes to this event, and he sees it, and he begins to tell me, you got a gift. And I would not accept it. I can't tell you how long it took me to accept the fact that this was worthy of focusing on so that I can help you. My gift can be your skill set. It took me years. I was at dinner once with Jack, and he said, I wish I could know that I can inspire people the way you do. I said, oh, Jack. He goes, no, no, no, Lisa. I'd give my pinky finger to know I can do what you do versus wondering if I'm doing it. And I went, really? Because I would. And so I went in a cave and I said, God, show me what I'm doing, because I don't want to die with this in my belly. I don't want to be the only one to move and inspire people to be unforgettable. I'm not. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I don't want to be an anomaly. There's no. To me. There's no grandioso in being an anomaly. I think that what I do, as many of us as possible, should be doing it, because, quite frankly, I'm bored with everyone intellectually trying to tell me what they know. But no one's moving my soul. Stir my soul. Expand my diaphragm. Take my breath away.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Make me want to stand on my tippy toes when you finish speaking. I wanted to give that. And so, to answer your question, I went away and I began to look at what I was doing every single time. Nothing was planned, but what was I doing? And then, quite honestly, I. I looked at Nelson Mandela, and then I looked over at Dr. Martin Luther King, and then I looked at Mahatma Gandhi, and then I looked at Mother Teresa. I looked at people who were movement makers. I don't want to make A moment. And I don't want to have a nice speech. I want to ignite a movement if I can, in this lifetime. So I looked at people who were movement makers, what charged them, and then I began to write it down and I put it in a framework. And for the last five years, only five years of my 28 years of teaching, that's what I've been teaching, how to be unforgettable.

[B]

So give me the first couple things.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

How does someone become unforgettable?

[A]

Yeah. So number one, seek first to inspire, not to impress.

[B]

That's amazing. It's true.

[A]

It's your come from space. So I'm not going to give you a technique to do. I'm going to give you an essence to be. And if you're willing to be that, now you're ready for the technique.

[B]

So let's say someone comes to you or they're listening to you and they have no idea where to pull that from.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So I started in transformational training. So that's my foundation's transformational training. So whenever our students step on our campus, they think they're going through speaking only.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But you're going through self discovery, that if you discover more of you, then you'll give me more of you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can only give me what you have and you know you have. So, number one, your to do list is long. People like you, your to do list is long. But your to done list, T a D u n to done list is a lot longer. What in your to done list can you give yourself credit for? Just sit in that for a moment. Things that people will never see that you did. The way you love the seemingly unlovable. The way you forgive the seemingly unforgivable. The way you get up in the dark of the night. Who you have to be in the dark of the night to show up is who you are in the middle of the day. I said that once to Angela Bassett at an event. I hugged her and I said, thank you, sis. For who? Who you have to be in the dark of the night to show up the way you do in the middle of the day. And she pushed me away. She goes, girl, don't you make me cry here. Because we all know what that feels like. And so first is, can you acknowledge you. Three sentences will help you. Number one, get in the mirror, look at yourself in the eyes and say, I'm proud that you. And find seven different answers. Even if you say, I'm proud that you got up today and brushed your Teeth. I'm proud that you walked away from an unhealthy friendship. I'm proud that you put the bread down and picked up some broccoli. Baby steps. But celebrate you. Second sentence. Now I'm answering your question. How do you get to that person? There's a way to get to them. Second question. Cut the shackles. Second sentence. I'm sorry. Cut the shackles. To shame, blame, guilt, regret and anger as it's attached to you by completing this sentence. Look at yourself. Say your name. I said my name. Lisa, I forgive you for eye to eye with self. And when I first said it, the first thing I said, now this was 2000, 1997. The first time I did this, I said, lisa, I forgive you for being so lonely that you lowered your bar. Real talk. Lisa, I forgive you for being so afraid of being alone again that you let him stay. Lisa, I forgive you for finding solace in food. Lisa, I forgive you for forgetting your value. Real talk. Now, the first time I did it, you couldn't understand what I was saying. It sounded more like, Lisa, you unrecognizable. I was just talking to me anyway, right? Third and final sentence. We're so comfortable making commitments to other people and keeping those commitments to them before we keep our commitments to ourselves. So the last sentence is, I commit to you that before I made a commitment to anybody else, before you make a commitment to anybody else in the bathroom mirror, right before you brush your teeth, go through all three of these. Last one is, I commit to you that. And my first commitments were, Lisa, I commit to you that today I'll think more happy thoughts about you, more nice thoughts about you than negative. And Lisa, I commit to you that today you'll only say yes when you want to say yes, and you'll say no when you need to say no. So to answer your question, there are ways to the journey back to you. I did those three sentences every day for six months. Now, I recommend my students do them every day for 30 days at least. And if you want to go further, go further. But that helps you get connected with who you're going to give to the world. Because you have to be deeper in. You scuba dive so you can give me more of you, so I can see more of me when I see you.

[B]

But a lot of people that you see, they're not able to do that right away, I would imagine, right? There's a lot of blockages, right? Because of, like, we should go back, back one. Right? Because of self doubt, because of the Fear because of all of these things. So like that's a great way to kind of tell people to start. Like that's an action oriented thing. Baby step, right, baby? It's a big baby step. Is that, is that also how people can start overcoming their self doubt and beginning to feel confident? I guess. Could they start feeling confident in that way?

[A]

More certain, more certain, certain overconfident, right? So self doubt, worry, fear, energy grows where energy goes. So if we put energy on self doubt, worry and fear, we're just growing.

[B]

That a hundred percent.

[A]

So if we do these three things, that will begin to dissipate. So every time you say I'm proud that you, you're looking at your to done list, you're collecting evidence. So if you do this, there's a reason why it's I'm proud that you, I forgive you for I commit you. That it's a reason why. It's those three sentences because they help you build more certainty in self. They help you go, oh, I actually am okay. Oh, I am not my past. My past makes me who I am. It's not who I am today. It's not my future. And so I say, jump into that. Even if I say seven different endings every day for all three sentences. But on day one, you may have two, right? You may have two. On day one, you may just stare at yourself. When's the last time you gave yourself the gift of just looking into your eyes in the mirror? Like I, I did all of my messages in the mirror in the bathroom first I saw myself. I spoke to me first. Do you know that when I'm on YouTube sometimes, and sometimes it's very strange because I pop up on YouTube in my own.

[B]

And you're looking at yourself.

[A]

Do you know? I listen, but I don't listen as I'm the deliverer of the message. I listen as the woman that the message popped up in front of. And I'm sitting there sobbing, completely disconnected from the fact that it's me talking. Because right now I'm going, God, what in this message did you bring to me that I need right now?

[B]

Well, you said something that's interesting because I, when I was watching your stuff and even you said it now when you were talking about the seven things that you say to yourself, like, why did I, you know, it's okay, you forgive yourself for this and you forgive yourself for that because you said that you were in like this abusive relationship, right? Which is an interesting thing to say because I saw this video once that you did about your father taking you on your first date. It was a great video, by the way. Again, this is like what you're. This is the power of you, Lisa, because everything that you do, maybe it's just. I can't imagine. It's not obviously just me, it's everybody. But it lands so hard. Like, he took you on your first date to show you. Well, you tell the story. You're way better than I am.

[A]

But I love listening that.

[B]

So this is why. This is why I felt like. I felt like this was really powerful. Is because you said that and I'm paraphrasing, but your dad took you, when you're 12 or 12, you're 10 years old or 11 years old on. On a dinner date and Marina. To the Marina del Rey. Yep. And he said to you afterwards something like, you know, you had a beautiful dinner. He treated you nicely. He was beautiful. Napkin, whatever. Napkins.

[A]

Open the car door. Open everything.

[B]

Opened the car door. Was very chivalrous, was very gentlemanlike. And he said, now, Lisa, this is how you should be. This is. Now that you've had your first date, this is how you should be treated. What was. And then it goes.

[A]

He said, this is how you get to be treated. And now you choose how you'll be treated. But I wanted to show you how you get to be treated.

[B]

And you're going to watch the clip because I butchered it. I'm so silly.

[A]

No, no. It was so great to hear you reflect on. I haven't done it in years, so.

[B]

It'S so old, but this is how long I've been trying to get you on the show.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad. Thank you for your persistency. So. Yeah. So how does that happen? And then I love that. Well, this is. I end up in an abusive relationship.

[B]

Well, this is what. Could you keep on making these references that you did grow up really nicely. You had, you know, you maybe didn't grow up in a wonderful area. You were on food stamps. However, you had a nice family. Amazing family, a great dad, a great mom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so you don't. You don't have the, the, the typical foundation.

[A]

Foundation to fumble into that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then your dad even showed you how you should be treated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then what was like, how did you allow yourself to become like someone who was in this terrible relationship?

[A]

Yeah. The first thing I forgave my spirit myself for in the mirror was I forgive you for being so lonely that you lowered your bar and I didn't see it. Coming. I wasn't in an abusive relationship that was at all had any indication that abuse was coming. It just hit one time, and that was enough for me. But it hit one time and came out of left field. But I'm sure somewhere underneath three layers, there was a sign. It just wasn't the natural signs that we know as signs. Raising your voice or being a little overbearing. None of that. My. At the time, my abusive former fiance was chivalrous and gentlemanly. And all the way up to the abuse, people were asking, does he have a brother? Like, all the way. No one said, get away from that guy. No one said that. And so I didn't see any signs. Cause I didn't know that it came in a package of perfection, looking like marketing perfection. And then after dinner one night and after having an amazing evening after, you know, intimacy, I went to sleep and I woke up with his hands wrapped around my throat with no argument, with no discord, with no. No indication of what was going to happen. And from that moment forth, I was with him three months, for three months after that, because I was navigating my way out of the relationship without being in a body bag. I knew if I gave him a reason, I knew in the pit of my belly that I would leave that house in a body bag. And so I negotiated myself out of that relationship very creatively. And it was the fight for my life, which showed me how I could fight number one. And it showed me how I needed to be aware of my blind spots. And it also was the catalyst of me being diagnosed as clinically depressed. And that was the catalyst of me getting in the mirror. I had lost Lisa. I lost Lisa in being his fiance. I lost Lisa. And having to embrace and swallow that I was now an abused woman. With all of my history with my amazing Superman dad and my Wonder Woman mom, how did I get here? So I love that you asked that question, because I asked myself that question only 9,000 times in. The only way I could navigate my way back to Lisa was to get in the mirror and to complete these three sentences seven different ways every single day for six months straight. To go somewhere in this debris of pain, in this debris of guilt, hurt and shame, anger and resentment, she still exists. Let me go get her. And I put on my hat, turned on my door, the Explorer light, and I went after me. And for the next. Now it's been 28 years. I always give that same exercise to people as either your starting point or to ramp you up. I give the same exercise it's the starting point, mirror work. Because if you can start in the mirror, we can go anywhere.

[B]

That's because, you know, I think hope is so important. Right. And so many people, if they don't have hope, then that's when they really are lost. How did you maintain hope? Or how do you tell people to hold on and have hope? Because I think a lot of people, when they feel hopeless, there's no going back.

[A]

Yeah. I love that question. I really like it.

[B]

Really? Thank you. I like you.

[A]

I like where you play. I like where you live.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, I do. Thank you. I love gentlemen in the room. I do it. I like. I always pray when I'm going into an interview that they'll ask me the real questions. Like, like don't, don't try to make it stay neat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, because people are looking for real over neat.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Yeah. Hope is priceless and no, hope is costly. And your question was how do I help people to.

[B]

When they're really like hopeless. Like, I know a lot of people who are like in the outside, they seem great. Right. But they have no hope because they feel trapped, they feel stuck. They don't have, they don't have the means and they don't have, they don't think they have the means. They don't think they have the support to, to kind of get out of their own way until they stay doing something that they don't want to be doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, you, it takes somebody who has a lot of self worth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not self confidence. Self confidence is a diff. Is very different than self worth. You can have self confidence and be confident in one thing, but have really bad self worth and then let your life just kind of flail. So that I think that to me is, you know, I, I don't know when people feel hopeless. I think that's when. I think that that's when people really kind of go down a bad place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how do you inspire people to feel like a. That it's not over till it's over. That they're not alone. That this is just chapter five in a chapter book that's or 30 chapters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like all the things that you've done.

[A]

Yeah. I appreciate that question because I think you're reflecting on what my whole life has been.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, I just did a one woman show on Broadway. Yeah. It's crazy.

[B]

You did?

[A]

I did. I know. It's the best kept secret when in December of 2024. It was a sold out show 690 seats, not one seat open in the house. It was on Broadway, by the way. I never ever even have on any vision board that I'd be doing a one woman show on Broadway.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I only say this to share that on during that show I told the stories. You would enjoy it, I may tell you about one, I'm sure again. Cause I. It was storytelling. All I did was just theatrically told one story after another on the journey of Lisa. And I was able to full on live in the theatrical of it for the first time. I've never done that before. So freaking.

[B]

I bet it was. I bet you were. It was excellent.

[A]

So freaking cool. Like I was a little girl. But I say that to say when I look at that, I look back at it was just a journey of constantly keeping hope, giving hope, keeping hope, giving hope. So the reason why you make me think about that, cause I was like, what was all I've stood for is don't give up hope. And if you do, that's okay. Let's pick it back up again.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So we don't have to write a 30 chapter book. What I would tell someone who's in that hopeless place to pick up hope again is let's just write the next line. Let's not pick up the shovel. Let's pick up a teaspoon and we can pick up a teaspoon. Let's not take a deep breath. Let's just go for now finding what you can do next. And let's hold on to the. At the end of your life, when you look back, what do you want your dash to have said? And have we said it all yet? And if we haven't, then it ain't over. It might be hard, it might be messy, but it ain't over. And you might need to walk 10,000 miles, but you only need to take one more step. That's it. One step today. Can we take one? One step? I think what I've mastered is helping people take one more breath and one more step and go. Huh. Let me sit in that for a minute now let me take one more breath and one more step. I think so often we're watching someone else trying to run their race, trying to fly their way. And Benjamin Franklin said it best come comparison is and will be the thief of all your joy. What saved me, Jennifer, was that I wasn't trying to live Dr. Michael Beckwith's story. I wasn't trying to live Bob Proctor's story. I wasn't trying to live Tony Robbins story or Les Brown's story or Jack Campbell's story, anyone else's story, that I was put in the beautiful bucket with them. I'm grateful for the bucket I'm put in. I'm grateful for the people I call my circle. But man, you will not catch me up in trying to run their race.

[B]

You know what's interesting while you're talking and I just realized. I mean, I've realized this before too, is that there are not many women who do this. Well, I'm being. And I'm being totally like, I have this conversation with a lot of my friends because. And as you're talking again, it's like, even the ones you named, right. They do it very well. Why is that? And I mean, it's the truth. Like, I don't know many besides you. There are women who are doing it, but they're doing it in a very vanilla, in my opinion, very vanilla way that's not that inspiring. And they're not very good. It's like. And this is like a total tangent, but why is that? That there's not. I can't really point to any that I think are that good. Like the art of storytelling, truth be said. No, it's true. Because think about it, right? Like, if you think about like storytelling and all that creativity, all that emotion.

[A]

You would think that soul stirring. Storytelling soul.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Fire igniting.

[B]

Fire igniting. Soul wrenching. Actually, you would think from what we been told, that it's much more a women centric world. But yet women are not in that. In this space. Space able to. To really make it land. Have you not noticed this?

[A]

Oh, girl.

[B]

Right. It's not.

[A]

Let me just say it's been lonely.

[B]

It's like, if I were to ask you in your room, I'm gonna have to. Could you name all the good men? Name one woman that you'd be like, you know, she's great at this.

[A]

Do not put me.

[B]

She's really inspirational. She's really someone that I think does this really well.

[A]

Can you name one that is in this industry.

[B]

Yeah. In this industry who is. And I hate that word. Motive. Yeah.

[A]

Don't. I'm not. Transformational self development. Personal development.

[B]

Personal. Okay, let's just go with personal development. Okay. It's a. It's a much more generic.

[A]

You know, that's an unfair question because, you know, you know, I have girlfriends in this industry that.

[B]

Okay, so. But I. I mean, I've.

[A]

Right, I get it.

[B]

I've met a bazillion, okay. As I'm sure in a minute. There, there's. I don't think I've met one that's like, honestly, amaz great. Not even amazing. That good. Can you name one? Just one. I'm not asking for more than one. Just one.

[A]

We'll be back after this commercial break.

[B]

Because you can't think either. See, you can't. Right.

[A]

I know some beautiful souls that are getting stronger because they recognize that there's a gap. And I can say this. No, I cannot answer to the level in which you're looking because you're looking at probably for them to touch and there's some level of resemblance to where to. I only know my marker.

[B]

Well, okay.

[A]

I only know my marker. And no, I don't. But let me just say this. Quite honestly, I don't know a lot of dudes who do it either.

[B]

I'm not saying dudes are that great either. Right. But I will say if I were to count on my hand, there's more guys that I feel who are like, who are. Who are closer than the women. And in fact, actually I know this to be true in other ways because other places that are hiring, they're looking for women because there's like all these big organizations and they're like, we can't always bring in men. They can't find what they can find for women are women who are talking about fight, like, who are business oriented.

[A]

You're right. No, you're absolutely right. So let me. Let me give you a bit of why I believe it to be so.

[B]

Okay. I know this is a. Because as you're talking, you're so impactful. It's like there's nobody. I'm just thinking about it again.

[A]

It's been lonely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. From. From my mouth to your ears, any woman who wants to become unforgettable speaking, I want to coach them because it's been lonely.

[B]

Well, but isn't it good for business that you're the only. Like there's not many or people don't really. I think more people choose to learn.

[A]

They don't even know. They don't even know that I. They don't even know. They don't even know that you exist. They don't even know that I. They don't know that what I do is available for them to learn. They. A lot of people make me an anomaly, which I respect my individuality. I respect that how people say you're the goat. Do you know they called me a goat for years and I was like, what is that really you are, for sure. I didn't know what a goat was.

[B]

Really.

[A]

What made me feel good is that Meryl Streepf was called a goat, and she didn't know what the goat was.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So now you're in good company again.

[A]

I was like, why would they say that about me? I'm a goat. And then someone said what it was. I respect that. But a part of it was. I didn't know how to teach it for a long time. It wasn't until Jack Canfield, JJ Virgin, Vishen Lakhiani, Marci Schaimoff, many of the people who were very successful said, can you please package what you do?

[B]

Yeah, I.

[A]

And show us how you do it. They make. My friends in the industry said, help make us better. And then I finally sat down and I put together what I call the science of unforgettable speaking. And I gave corny names to stuff that I do, but I created it in such a way that I can show you the beginning, middle, and end of it. And then I started teaching it and watching people get really, really good at storytelling.

[B]

So are they. Because, I mean.

[A]

Yeah, no, there are people out there who are. They started with me at a 3, and now they're a 6. They're not a 10.

[B]

They're not a 10.

[A]

They're not a 10 yet. So I want to be honest, they're not a 10 yet, but they have the skill sets now that can make them constantly get better.

[B]

Okay, so this is the other question. Skill versus talent in this area, Most other areas. The world. In anything else. In sports, for high performance, which is what I, I, I, I'm involved with. I do a lot with. It's a lot of. It's hard work, tenacity, practice. There are certain things, though, if that require talent and a lot of it, or else you're just, you can only get. You're, you can only get so far, right? Like, if you want to be a basketball player and you're five foot zero, you can practice all you want. Right, but you're only going. You're not going to be an NBA player.

[A]

Right, But Spud was good.

[B]

Okay, but how many. Okay, there's. How many? How many? Or like, or. Damon Stoudemire is another one. He's like five foot two. Not like maybe five foot eight or. But the point is, you'll never become. There's very few.

[A]

There's a difference between you and LeBron James, right?

[B]

It's a major. There's a.

[A]

Yes. No, you're absolutely right.

[B]

Hard work gets you so far. And I. And I'm saying this because also a lot of people in my world, like, they'll talk and maybe they can have a really great speech.

[A]

Yeah. But it's a moment. I always say, turn your moment into a movement because everyone's creating great moments.

[B]

And you said that earlier. You started with that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And while I'm honored that people will say, you're the LeBron, you're the Michael Jordan, you're the, you know, Kobe Bryant, where I am now in my life is I want to be Phil Jackson.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I want you to really get this. If I watched you at a keynote, nail it. Because you learned how to tell the story. You learned how to do audience connection. You learn how to do verbal highlights. You learn how to do cadence and iteration play. Like all these techniques that I've created, I'm going to be so beaming on the front row. It's much more than I beam when I get off stage, Right. When I'm off stage, I'm like, thank you so much. You get off stage and you nail it. Oh, we about to throw you a party. That's where I am in my season. So let me give you a technique right now. May I do that?

[B]

Go ahead. Yes.

[A]

Because I want to show you how the techniques. It's not magic. Yeah, it's not magic. Now, I respect what you say, and I agree some of it's essence.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I got faith. I got unwavering faith from my core. I have done the work on me. So all of that, all that zhuzh that comes from me. But I can give you the techniques that you couple with the personal development of self, and all of a sudden you can become untouchable and unforgettable.

[B]

Go ahead. I want to hear.

[A]

So one technique is audience connection. So many speakers, the ones that you're referring to, they're talking to an audience, but they're not talking with an audience. And it's difficult to talk with an audience if you don't know how to do it because the audience isn't talking. So how do you turn a dialogue into a monologue without anyone else saying anything? That's a technique in the science of speaking that I teach. That's called audience connection formula. There was a time when I doubted that I could build a multimillion dollar business. We have a tendency to have a dream, but then not know how to deliver the dream. So we doubt ourselves. Has ever been a time when you had a dream about something but didn't know how you do it?

[B]

Yes, all the time.

[A]

I just did the technique to you. I just did it to you.

[B]

How.

[A]

Okay, so let me just say it's smooth like butter, y'all. It's like a Kerrygold butter, y'all. Who's your sponsor? Any sponsor that is like that.

[B]

Tons.

[A]

It's like tons. It's tons.

[B]

No, tons. It's tons.

[A]

It's like smooth like tons. So I just did the technique.

[B]

But how.

[A]

Okay, so I know that's how schools are.

[B]

Okay, tell me, tell me, tell me.

[A]

Okay, good. Okay, so audience connection formula is bringing the audience along with you. So first it's me, then it's we, then it's you. I just did it to you. There was a time when I go on. We have a tendency to. Have you ever. There was a time when I thought women were not going to be successful in this industry. We have a tendency as women sometimes to doubt ourselves because it's a male dominated industry. Have you ever looked up and saw all men and said, where do we fit?

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

I did it to you again.

[B]

Yes. That's amazing.

[A]

Right? So now I want you to do it. There was a time when I. Take me back to something that was before you. This moment. A doubtful moment, a less than perfect moment. There was a time when I.

[B]

Right now.

[A]

Oh, God. There was a time when I just. There was a time when I doubted myself.

[B]

Okay. There was a time when I doubted myself. We have a tendency to be scared of failing, so we don't make it. We don't. We don't even take a shot.

[A]

Have you ever.

[B]

Have you ever had that experience before?

[A]

Absolutely. What you just did was you went back. So most people, old school speaking, they're on top of the mountain saying, the atmosphere is good up here. Come join my atmosphere. No one's turned on by that anymore. We're a social community. We want to climb together. So with the audience connection formula, you walk down the mountain. There was a time when I. You grab my arm. We have a tendency to. And you walk up together. Have you ever.

[B]

That's a great tactic. Okay, give me another one.

[A]

I have 16 of them. Okay, give me another one. And when. So, so good.

[B]

Give me another one.

[A]

You want another one?

[B]

I do.

[A]

You want another thing?

[B]

I'll hire you in a. In a second. And by the way, okay, this is. This is totally true. So. So, like, there's a lot of people who, like, have to talk. Not because they want to talk, but they have to.

[A]

So they want to be good at it.

[B]

So you want it. And like, I'll talk to myself. There's been things that I like speaking gigs that I was, you know, offered. And I'm like, I don't want to do it because I'm bad at it. I'm scared of it. And therefore I just won't do it.

[A]

I know, I know a lot of.

[B]

People like that and I want to. And one more thing to that, since so why not, is that even though, like, in my real life, I'm not shy or I'm super honest and real, like I'm not a. I'm not a fake or phony person, it doesn't necessarily translate when I'm on stage because I get nervous because I don't feel like I'm good at it. And I think a lot of people, a lot. But the people who are really good at it, they're actually like the most disingenuous. They're not. They're mess. They're not real. They're not even good at it.

[A]

But they became master marketers.

[B]

Master marketers. Or they have a great speech person who gave them a great speech and they just practice it.

[A]

I love serving people like you, which is why I'm probably the best kept secret. Because I don't go up and announce.

[B]

I had no idea you even did this.

[A]

I don't go and announce because all of, well, in addition to the you's in the world, all of the fake folk will run, consume me, throw lots of money at me, and I go, eh, I really don't wanna work with folk like you. Like, I love helping great people uncover or build their superpowers. So I always say the techniques I give you, they're a superpower. What you have to commit to me is you'll use your powers for good. Cause here's what I could tell you. You learn these techniques and you don't even know why. You're becoming like you can stand still and people begin to come to you. You don't have to pursue as much.

[B]

Okay, give me another example.

[A]

Absolutely, yeah.

[B]

This is absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. So that first one is called Audience Connection Formula. Me, we. You just fill in the blanks. There was a time when I. We have a tendency to. Have you ever. That's it.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Okay, now you're climbing with them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then let's see another technique. Ah, I'll give you this one. Okay. So we are a world of rhythm. We love rhythm. We love music. When I was in Taipei, no one spoke English. But when they put on Beyonce, you should have put a ring on it. 3,300 people were singing. Should have put a ring on it, right? Same thing when I was in Shenzhen. Same thing when I was in Swahili. Music is a unifier, right? So if we use that as a premise, I want to introduce you to iteration and cadence flow. Another technique that I use, and that's using words that start with the same letter are end with the same ending. Tion ing starts with the S or starts with a P, or ends with the same word up. And then you create a rhythm that the audience begins to lean into. You feel a little poetry. You feel a little like John Legend. They don't quite know what's going on. So it sounds like this. It's time for us to speak up, stand up. You might want to show up. You might want to get prayed up. It's time for us to rise up so that we as a community can hold up. All I did was use up. I'll use another one for you. We all deserve inspiration. We need education. We gotta go get our motivation. We gotta tap into our determination. You might feel some frustration, but don't worry about it, because that has its own elimination. But you gotta be willing. You see?

[B]

Of course I see. That's amazing. But you. It comes like. It's. Like it's easy for you, right?

[A]

Nope. But my middle. My fourth quarter can be your first quarter. I see it all the time with my students. If I gave you a list of words, I've seen it happen. I know this sounds crazy. I've had students never do this before. I give them the list. See, what makes it seem magic now is that you don't see a list in front of me. I have it in my head. But if I gave you a list and I just set it in front of you, said, okay, Jennifer, here are seven words. Just start talking. You would be blown away by what you do. Ss up, I O, N, T, I, N, G. And then what you begin to do is, as you're writing your own speech, you go, I want to play with T's, I want to play with mother. And you start playing with it. All of a sudden, you realize now most people are playing here. If this was the piano and they're speaking, they're only using the center 10 keys. That's why they're boring. That's why you said what you said. But when you realize the same words, you go all the way out. There's 66 ways you can play in the lexicon. All I've done is I've mastered all the different ways you use words. So that's cadence and iteration. That's just using the same ending or the same beginning. And you would be blown away. If you just write the list of words, and then you start playing with the list of words, and you record yourself so that when you say something, you like looking at the words, you transcribe it, and then you say something again with what you've transcribed and add another word to it. You'll build a message. Just a moment in your message. A moment. This is not your whole message. This is just a moment in the middle of a speech. Imagine the only person that does that is. Was Dr. Maya Angelou. She'd be in the middle of a speech and just drop some poetry and then go back to the speech. And you're like this. What did she just do? I saw her do it in 2000. I said, okay, when I grow up, I'm gonna do that one day. And so when I was on Broadway in December, in the middle of my Broadway show, I dropped spoken word and then went back to the show and didn't highlight it. I'm about to do spoken word. Just drop into it. Imagine if you were speaking for nine minutes and two minutes in the middle, you did iteration or cadence flow and then kept going. Now you. Your standout. You keep doing one more thing after another standout. One last technique. Verbal highlight. You've seen me do this a lot. You know. Know what's happening. But a verbal highlight. Most people, especially when they call it motivation, oh, Lord, they think that you gotta be loud. You gotta scream. Motivation is not screaming. That's just screaming. It drives me crazy. So you don't have to be loud and you don't have to be fast. Only verbal highlights is making a distinction with your words. I want you to follow my words with me. Okay, well, you. I'm going to give you words to say, but I want you to follow the tonation. Remember I said 66 keys on a piano. Part of those keys are not just what you say. It's how you say it, right? So when you felt that, ugh, for me, normally you also experience verbal highlights. Repeat after me along with my pacing and my tone. Okay?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm committed. I'm committed to be the best version of myself.

[B]

To be the best version of myself.

[A]

I don't apologize. I don't apologize for one thing that's happened in my life, for one thing that's happened in my life, because it makes me who I am today because.

[B]

It makes me who I am today.

[A]

And I.

[B]

And I like, like, her. Her. It sounds weird when I do it. I had this woman on my show the other day, which is completely new. I'm talking so coincidental. She's like the top voice coach in the world. Right. She works with, like, the Shakiras of the world. Right. And every. Everybody. And she walked me through. Which is so weird how your voice is, like an instrument for, like, power and authority. And she was doing all these things about, like, quiet and then louder. And all the years are kind of saying similar things.

[A]

And I have no idea.

[B]

And you have no idea about that. But, like.

[A]

But yes.

[B]

Doesn't it come across if I do it disingenuous?

[A]

No, because you're gonna place it to the appropriate words that it fits for you.

[B]

I see what you're saying.

[A]

I just have you repeating after me right now. So you're just, like, choosing words that I chose for you. But when you are saying, like, if I can ask you what's one moment in your life, Give me a little bit of a moment in your life. When it felt. I don't know if I'm gonna bounce back from this one. It tested your faith.

[B]

A moment of that.

[A]

Yeah. A real moment.

[B]

And actually right now in my life.

[A]

Okay, let's unpack it. So without even knowing the details, I'd love to work with you because then we go and make sure that you feel safe about that thing. Because until you feel safe about that thing, it's not available to the world.

[B]

Right? Exactly. I was going to say. That's why I don't want to say it out loud.

[A]

It's not available to the world. I remember when I first got frauded. I got frauded in my company, and one of my employees said, I don't feel like you're being genuine. I said, why? She goes, because we're dealing with this fraud and you're not telling anyone. I said, oh, sweetheart, please. I don't tell anybody about a battle that I'm still fighting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Soon as I get through this one, whether I win or lose, then it's available. But right now, this is mine. I'm quite comfortable with the stories that are still mine, and I'm quite comfortable with the ones that never belong to the public. But the ones that I give you, I'm going to give you as much of me so that you can find you. So this other technique is called scooping. I'm not going to tell you how to do it now because it's kind of advanced. But I'm going to tell you the theory because you can appreciate it, because it's what you experience with me. Everything I'm telling you, you experience this with me already. It's why I'm here. It's why you worked so long to have me here. You didn't even know what was happening. Scooping is I tell my story in its own authenticity, but I widen my story up in the examples enough so that you can see a part of you in my story. Oh, my God.

[B]

That's exactly why people like you.

[A]

And now that is, I will tell you, that's LeBron, LeBron James level. That's not a first level. No one that I've taught how to speak at the first level can do that. But if you get the first level, if you get the audience connection formula, you get the cadence iteration, you. You get the pregnant pause. I just taught you verbal highlights. Verbal highlights is range. We just work on range for a while. I listen to your story and I go, tell me that again in what I call the bottom of your belly. Top. Top is, hey, we all get to be happy. Bottom of your belly is because abundance is your birthright. That's non negotiable. You see the power.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, like, abundance is my damn birthright.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like you feel 100. Okay, so give me an example of when you've done that. Because, I mean, I've seen so many of your videos, right?

[A]

Like, yeah, I gotta, I got. Did you see me on the stage at Agape? I'm in the black dress and I'm like, my English teacher told me.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I told you.

[A]

And I said, but other people's perception.

[B]

Of you, that was the one.

[A]

I said, your business.

[B]

But I don't have. I don't. Forget about me. People, like, don't have that flair, right? Like, this is what makes you do.

[A]

Right, you're right.

[B]

But you gave the story. Like, this is a couple things. You know how to pull stories. Like, again, when you ask me and you can ask a million other people, they won't even know stories. Like, they've had a lot of life experiences, but they don't even know how to like, extract them from themselves.

[A]

So you don't look for a story, you look for an incident.

[B]

And isn't it the same?

[A]

No, it's not. People think a story. Stories have their. Have more range. They have their totality. If I ask you, Jennifer, find an incident, an incident that made you go, oh, that hurt or wonder or did I make the right decision? We go back. We sit here long enough.

[B]

I have an example for you. There you go. This is like a. Is this. Not even. This is more like a meeting, but, like, what I was gonna say. This is interesting. I didn't. I did a TED Talk a few years back that went viral, and it was based on this story that was very. I think it was compelling to everyone because people can. Basically, it was about the fact that when I was a kid, I got somebody. I got Keanu Reeves to help me make a demo tape for a job, and nobody thought, I can do it, and everyone laughed at me. And then I met him somewhere completely. Just completely, miraculously, I asked him, and he ended up saying yes. And they came to my house, and my mom made him, like, cookies and. And lunch. And then I, like, basically had a camcorder, and he. He allowed me to interview him for an hour for a. So I can be a VJ on mtv, basically. And so. Because I thought nobody would, like, look at me unless I had a big celebrity, right? And I told all my friends, and he all laughed at me. And then he ended up doing it for me, which was like a big. And so I talked about in my first. My first TED Talk, the power of being bold. Because that was that my word is being bold. Like, chase what you want, don't take what you get. Like, chase, chase, chase. Don't just sit back and acquiesce to good enough. And I think it did very well because, A. I think everybody feels that they acquiesce to whatever's in front of them and what's good enough. So it connected to people. And because it was such a, like, real story that people thought it was, like, cute that this, like, kid who's 17 did all this stuff to get to Keanu Reeves. And it actually worked. Right. And the idea of, like, being bold and not letting your self doubt. Right. Anyway, why I'm bringing the story up is it had a lot of these elements that you're talking about unconscious competence. And. And. And so people liked it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's hard to recreate. So, like, the reason why I pulled that story. Cause it's, like, such a memorable thing that it changed the entire trajectory of my life. Right. Like, I never let anybody ever tell me I can't do it, because I can. Who's. Why would I listen to anybody? So the reason why I loved your perception story is because it resonated. So what. What I was going to ask you is how important is the Content. How important is the content? Because I think what makes anything good, regardless of all these other things, is if people can see themselves in the story and then give them hope. Hope. Because hope is such a big thing, in my opinion too, that them, they too can do this. They too can live that life.

[A]

The technique I call scoop them.

[B]

That's when you said scoop.

[A]

You can scoop. I could see myself in your story.

[B]

Right? That's so important.

[A]

It's so important. And the more intentionality you do it with while keeping the integrity of your story.

[B]

That's hard.

[A]

The mistake that people make because they don't know the technique is that they get out of the story and start teaching. You can't teach and be in the story at the same time. You're either in the story or you're teaching. Most people don't know how to make them sit next to each other. Another technique that I teach is the bridge. They don't know the bridge that connects the story to the content and then the content to the story again. And after this interview.

[B]

Is it an interview?

[A]

I think you're going to watch me differently, like my students do. I tell my students after we do this, I say, go back and watch me now. Cause now you're behind the black curtain. And now you're gonna go, ooh, she just scooped me. Ooh, she just. Audience connection formed me. Ooh, she just. Verbal highlight now. That's great. Your brain is looking at the techniques. Cause if you can nail the techniques individually, then we can technique stack and that's what makes you unforgettable.

[B]

But do you do one on ones or do you do groups only?

[A]

I do one on ones.

[B]

You do one on ones?

[A]

I do a lot of. I do one on ones all the time. But most, most of the time when I do a one on one, they're playing at a higher level.

[B]

Right. They're not just, they're not just like, they're so like, how did you make all your money though? Like, you weren't doing this before. This is a new thing that you're doing.

[A]

Oh, no, no.

[B]

You weren't teaching up until when now?

[A]

Well, I've always been teaching, but I've been teaching transformation.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[A]

So I made a lot of money teaching transformation.

[B]

You weren't teaching how to speak? No, this was like, this is your new speaker.

[A]

The industry pulled me into it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because you feel good. My friends were like, we don't want. We don't. We want you to teach us how to do what you do. Like, they forced me to do it.

[B]

And that. Honestly, it's because I. I didn't even. Because I'm a business person. Right. That's going to be. When I see this, I'm like, this is something. This is actually a business. And then I. And then I found out that you're doing this.

[A]

Yeah. What's funny is. So I just did a podcast with Scott Miller, who.

[B]

I know Scott. He interviewed me, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I did. When I did his interview, at the end of the interview, he go, number one, where have you been all my life? And number two, why don't more people know about you?

[B]

That's what I said to you.

[A]

Literally. It was. So Scott was just at my house this past Saturday, and we did the framework for my next book that the working title is Becoming Unforgettable. And it's how to Speak to make an Influence. And the entire ecosystem of this training will be born out of that. Even more so. Cause it's taken me a while. It's hard when you've been on Oprah, Larry King and Dr. Phil and Steve Harvey for personal development.

[B]

Right. Oprah's a big one. I mean, forget about the other ones.

[A]

You get from under personal development. Like, people are like, no, no, no. You're the transformational lady. So that screams really big. My first book was Chicken Soup. My second book was the Secret. So it's like, I totally know. So people, they want me for that. So it was the industry leaders, you know, vishen Lakhiani, Steven, CEO of MyValley.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm kidding. He always says she's the only person that I flew 33 hours in coach in a middle seat. Cause it was the last seat on the plane to go to her speaker training. Because I needed to know when she finally decided to teach it.

[B]

Totally it.

[A]

And so, yeah, I've been quietly kind of teaching it, and now I'm just coming out going, you can get my personal development. First of all, I have to build a library of all my personal development trainings so people can get access to it without having me.

[B]

This is so interesting to me in a real way. I think this is the most, like. Because that's how everyone knows you. I mean, that's why you were like. Until you just said that. I forgot about the Chicken Soup secret. And the secret. I mean, you did the two biggest. And Oprah and Oprah. So, like, you are literally, like in a box, a person. Like, you are like the personal development woman. Because there's not many Others, honestly, you.

[A]

Know, it takes a lot to get out of a big box.

[B]

How do. That's. How do you even pivot? Because people want to keep you in that box.

[A]

Actually, it's through engagements like this because I have a whole body of work around speaker development. So I'm ready for this interview. I'm ready to go. By the way, these are my legacy years, Jennifer. These are my legacy years. Like I'm 10 more years. I just want to sit beside my super delicious husband as much as possible. So these are my real talk.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

Girl talk, real talk.

[B]

I saw him. I know, right?

[A]

So these are my legacy years. And so I'm more passionate about. I don't want this to sit down with me. Especially when you can turn around and do it the way you just did. If you can do one technique that I taught you, you can do all 16. Some are easier to grasp than others. Some come before others. And so I'll just spend the next 10 years going, can I help make you more impactful? Can I help make you more unforgettable? Can I help with that? And I don't think we'll have a hard time because what you said is so true. People who need to lead need to speak. People who are assigned to leading want to feel more confident. You want to accept. I won't drop any names by anybody. But what you said earlier resonated so much with me because I've heard it before. I decline speaking engagements not because I don't want to go, but because I don't feel confident about how I'll show up when I go. So I just am too busy for them.

[B]

Yeah. Or it makes me so nervous that it's like there's a truth in the fact that, like, it's a bigger fear than, like dying, right?

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

Than getting up there.

[A]

It's bigger than dying by fire.

[B]

Well, it's 100% true because it's just. And the anxiety that it just puts on. But when you did, when you made your money in transformational coaching, what were you teaching people then? How to overcome self doubt?

[A]

Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was teaching the extension of. If you took chicken soup or you took the secret and you made it a training, if you took, you know, limiting beliefs, how to overcome them, how to set goals, how to set all those things. Stephen Covey's training, you take that the billion dollar industry. Right. So there was no lack of opportunity. But what people kept watching in the opportunity was, how do you do that? How'd you Say that. And I'm like, don't worry about how I said that. Just go do this so you can get this breakthrough. And people began to look at what I was doing and how I was saying it more than the transformation from. And it wasn't the people in the seats, it was my colleagues that were on the roster with me. So when I'm on the roster and I'm sitting in the back in Toronto and there's 11,400 people in the audience, and it's me, Jack Canfield, Bob Proctor, T.R. veckert, and John Assaraf, I know exactly who it was. I call em my brothers from another mother. And I was often the only woman y. And we're sitting in the back and all of them are busy typing their PowerPoints. And I'm sitting there talking to someone, and we're laughing and talking, and all of a sudden I look around and I see everyone has a PowerPoint. They're all head down in it, and I'm the first speaker and I'm kikiing and laughing and ooh, I like those shoes. And ooh. And I go, oh, crap, I should be. I should be doing a PowerPoint. For a moment, I forgot. I'm gonna be honest for a moment. I'm looking at the good old boys. They're all wildly successful. And I'm going, you peon. You should be doing what they're doing so you can have what they have. So I go next to Jack, who. Jack has always been my binky. Yeah, he's always been my binky. And I'm like, jack, I really should have a PowerPoint, shouldn't I? And I freak out and drive my assistant crazy. I'm like, write something down. Give me something on paper. She's like, what? I'm like, the conversion rate from the Canadian dollar to the U.S. i don't know. Write something down. And she writes down the conversion rate. I'm just freaking out. I completely lose my core of confidence. And I go out on stage and I just start talking and I do my thing. And at the end of my speech, I get a roaring five minute standing ovation, like, roaring. And as I'm walking off stage, Jack's walking up because he comes after me and he goes, don't you ever, like. He was like, pissed. Don't you ever talk about needing a PowerPoint again. And I was like. And at the end of the night, we all have dinner together, and Bob Proctor comes over to me and he says, I've never seen you speak, young Lady. Cause I'm just trying to get into the club. I said, yeah, I've seen you speak. You're amazing. He goes, no, no, no, I'm good. You're amazing. I took four pages of notes. He goes, but you have a being. There's a being in your belly. A being.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He goes, and you offer your being to the audience. Bottle that up. That's what you gonna get paid for. It went on about the night when I tell you every speaker I've ever admired. Cause I'm young in the game. Like, not so much now, but back then. You go back to 2006, I was the youngest person by 10, 15 years. They had all been established. I'm literally putting my credit card on hotels saying, run it for one night at a time.

[B]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[A]

Like, real talk, I'm there for five nights, but I'm like, don't run all five nights. Like, it was. It was very bootstrapped. Everywhere I went, though, the speakers would look back and go, wow. Do you know the torment that came with. I would go back to my room and I cry and go, what? What is it? Because I don't know how to bottle it up and sell it. I don't know how to offer it. What? What are they seeing? First, I didn't know what they were seeing. And then I didn't know how to contain it. Then I didn't know how to articulate it. Then I didn't know how to shape it right. Then I didn't know how to serve it to you. The way I just said, do this technique, I didn't even know. So it was in my unconscious competence. And so I'm excited about the last five years. Cause I feel like if I don't ever get, like, if I don't have to build a multibillion dollar industry from it, at least it doesn't die in my belly.

[B]

Well, then how did you do it? Like, who would someone help you kind of like, create it?

[A]

Number one, my friends forced me, my friend. Like, I got, you know, I got strong friends. Jj, virgin, Vishen, Jack. They were like, look, go lock yourself in the office. And in my prayer time, I gotta tell you, I said, God, what's next? And what I heard the spirit say was, quit being lazy. You said, do you see my calendar? And that word, like, it shook me. It was disruptive. And lazy was. Just because it's difficult don't mean you shouldn't be doing it. Make your gift someone else's skill set, period. And so then I went, I started searching, I started, how do you do it? And I start coming up with crazy names and putting post it papers all around my office. I don't think I showered for like five days and I'm like, or my son was little, he's like, mom, come out. I'm like, no, eat a sandwich. You know, like, it was crazy. And then I tried it out and my first version was wildly effective. I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh, it was so. I don't want to sound bragging. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging.

[B]

No, you're not.

[A]

But it was so in my sales. It was so in my sales that when I gave it to you and you try it, I go, yeah, yeah. That's what my art looks like outside of me. But there's another version to that. Once you get that, tell me, because I got like three more versions beyond that. Like, it was so much.

[B]

Yeah. Do you, do you do a lot of speaking engagements that you get hired by companies a lot now? Like, what's your revenue streams now?

[A]

Yeah, so. So I love this because, you know I'm a businesswoman.

[B]

Yeah, well, that I.

[A]

You know that. Right?

[B]

Well, that's why I'm asking you these questions.

[A]

I'm a businesswoman. Like, our business, like, is like foreplay to me. I love business, so.

[B]

Me too. Well, you keep on mentioning JJ version. She's all business too. So.

[A]

Yeah, that's my girl. Like, we talk business together. Her, Cynthia Garcia. We all, we sit down and we talk ROIs, revenue streams. We talk, you know.

[B]

Are you going to that thing in my side note? Mexico is that part.

[A]

I am. They want me to teach there.

[B]

Oh, you organization.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So are you going to teach there?

[A]

They're. They're 70. They 70% got me.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

They took me out. Both of them took me out to dinner the other day.

[B]

Where's the other one?

[A]

Cynthia Garcia. Yeah. She's co founder of the Unicorns.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know that. She's delicious. When you meet her, you'll fall in love.

[B]

Oh, okay. No, I know, jj, but I don't know.

[A]

This one is. It's a well of dynamic women with all different gifts and talents and it's walking with like minded unicorns who are all very different from the rest of the world who doesn't get a chance to play in their greatness as well as have challenges because the world doesn't have, like, we're not allowed to complain out Loud. Because our problems are what people are pursuing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I'm mindful of that and sensitive to that. But in that environment, we get to be all things, and it really is a sense of sisterhood. I'm not real big on, like, girl bands and girl groups, and it's not me. I'm kind of an alpha woman, and so it took a while for them to get me there.

[B]

Are you a member of the thing? Is that what you're doing?

[A]

I think I am. I'm not sure. I think. I don't know what member means, but I've gone three times.

[B]

Oh, okay. Well, she's invited. She told me to come to this thing in Mexico. I won't be able to, unfortunately, but when you kept on bringing. You brought it up a couple times. I'm like, oh, I wonder if it's the same thing.

[A]

Yeah, J.J. and I were friends before then, though, so she's the person. That's how she got me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So speaking as a revenue stream, I'm now doing more speaking than I was before. I used to do a lot of speaking. 38 keynotes a year, you know, all around the world. And then I dial back considerably so I can build my training programs and so I can have something for people who couldn't make a keynote.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So now I have this library of personal development all the way from the beginning to making it to a retreat with me. And now I have speaker development all the way from the very beginning. 4:97. I'm real big on making things available for everyone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So the first level here, you need 500 bucks, two payments of whatever, the ultimate level you want to get in the room with me. It's going to be an investment. $15,000. We'll spend five days together. Those are groups. I also have a mastermind. They meet in my house. Those are the Gladiators. Only 15 meet in my house four times a year for two days. We're going to take your business and we're going to rock it. Your business or your brand or your message. So I spent the second day of our mastermind literally helping everyone. I love what you said earlier. I broke down a speech. I said, you want an unforgettable speech, it needs to have these components to it. And we put each component in their speech. Everyone was working on their own and they were shocked to see the limited amount of content compared to what they thought. Still good amount of content. But in a 30 minute speech. Let me show you how much needs to be an opening, needs to be a bridge. I need your story. I need a bridge. I need your content. I need some inspiration. Give me another small story. Now give me a charge. Now close me. So I just put together the construct and they're like I said, now let's fill in each one for you. I'm not, I'm never going to touch your content. You're the genius of that. Let me touch everything else with you. Because if you want someone inspired, they'll never be inspired by your intellect. They'll be impressed and informed. They'll be inspired by the way you scoop them. They'll be inspired by your story, they'll be inspired by your charge. What's a charge? A charge comes at the very end. Never do a charge before the very end. Charge at the very end. I challenge you. That's bold statement. I challenge you to love like you've never been hurt, forgive like you've never been betrayed, Leap like you've never fallen. So a charge has some elements in it. It always has to make humanity better. That's some movement stuff. We don't see anyone doing that. Who does that? Everyone ends with, how I can help you. And remember this. Don't tell me to remember this. Please don't end like, ugh, like boring. Charge me. Charge me to be the better, best version of myself in a way that feels inviting. That leaves me like this. I just did it when I was in Dubai. They had to call a break after my keynote. It was not a break planned.

[B]

Really.

[A]

They're like, okay, we're going to take a break so everyone can catch their breath. Okay, I'm done. And then I stood outside and took pictures for two and a half hours. Two and a half hours. While all the other speakers left and went to dinner. I even told the people in line, I gotta go do four interviews. If you're here when I get back, I'll keep taking pictures with you. I went, I spent 40 minutes doing interviews. I came back, they were all still there and I took pictures with them. And Vishen goes, what would make someone stand in line? It was the tippy toe, it was the breath, it was the scooping for a picture. That's all I got was a picture. But that's, that's the, the combination. So I do that as well.

[B]

Okay, so what do you talk about though? Because that's, these are all the greatest tech. This is great techniques. Like, I love all, like, I'm, I'm like so interested in what you're saying.

[A]

Because you can do all of it. Here too. This is not relocated to stage.

[B]

No, no, no, I know.

[A]

This is book, this is podcast. This is. Every time you open your mouth, you get to use these techniques.

[B]

But what do you speak when you go speak in Dubai? What are you speaking about now? Like, what's captivating people? Do you have a few different keynotes that you just kind of play with? Do you just go up there?

[A]

Like, I never do the same, Like.

[B]

So that's what I was going to say, because you said earlier in Toronto, you didn't. I'm from Toronto, by the way.

[A]

The best people on the planet.

[B]

Canadians are great.

[A]

Let me just say. Let me just say.

[B]

I know.

[A]

My very first tour, my very first time out of the country on tour, I went to Winnipeg.

[B]

Winnipeg is where I'm from. Like, I was born.

[A]

My very first. When I tell you the way those people loved me, the way.

[B]

Did you just say Winnipeg?

[A]

I said Winnipeg.

[B]

Winnipeg, Manitoba. Listen, that is where I am.

[A]

I went to Winnipeg with a really big coat on, with some flip flop shoes in December because I'm a Californian. And they did not tell me, please buy some boots.

[B]

That is unbelievable.

[A]

And they loved on me.

[B]

Well, I love you.

[A]

It was the first time I saw it, first time I was out of the country. And it was 2009, I'll never forget. And I was scared, Jennifer. I was scared. I was like, why is the world responding to me like this? What's happening? I didn't know what was happening around me. I'd just been in the secret. And Winnipeg loved her anyway. Keep going.

[B]

No, that's crazy.

[A]

You're my sister from another Mississippi.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

We were meant to be together.

[B]

Nobody even knows Winnipeg is. I do. I moved to Toronto when I was like 21. No, 18 or 19.

[A]

My first stop in Canada was Winnipeg.

[B]

H. Oh, my God. Nobody even knows where that is.

[A]

I loved it. They loved on me.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

You know, Winnipeg will always be a part of my life story. Always. You see what I'm saying?

[B]

Did you hear that? That is hilarious.

[A]

I've been around the world a few times and Winnipeg is one of the places that I talk about. I don't talk about everywhere because of the way they loved me. The time of my life. It was. I didn't know if they were ready for a mocha woman with an Afro with full lips and round hips. I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure how they would accept me. I was nervous. And then they went, we love you and I thank you. They were my evidence that the world was ready for me. Winnipeg.

[B]

Well, what's up to love, by the way? You know, but you said that you. Okay, but I don't even know what I was going to. What was I going to say about. Oh, yeah, when you do. So you just go up there when people. And you just talk.

[A]

No. So, number one, I don't invite any of my students to do what I do because.

[B]

No, I know, I know.

[A]

I'm fourth quarter Michael Jordan, so. But I can teach them how to do the version. So what I do is I ask the same three questions. This, I will invite you. Please do this. I ask the same three questions to every host that hires me to come everywhere. And I, I, I coach my students to do the same. I ask the question, what do you want the audience to feel as a result of my keynote? What do you want? What action do you want the audience to take as a result of my keynote? And what would you like them thinking at the end of my keynote? What do you want them to think about? Same three questions every single time. And then I make the rest up to get there. But let me tell you what I start with. The one thing I walk in knowing is what story am I going to tell? I match the story to their answer. Oh. Now, number one, another thing I help my students do is I help you create your stories and then create your story library. You only need about four, but I help you curate each one so you have something to choose from.

[B]

Give me an example.

[A]

Tonka Toy. So Tunka Toy. The last time I did that, it was with Eli Lilly and which pharmaceutical. And the HR department invited me in. It's a hard time for our team, and everyone's feeling overwhelmed. We're probably. This was in 2007. We're there again, and people are tired, they're exhausted, and we want you to just keep them going. So I said, oh, Tonka Toy. Tonka Toy is about Jelani. Now, mind you, it has nothing to do at work. It's about Jelani and his Tonka truck and how he kept picking this truck up and dropping it. And it kept going slow. Picking it up and dropping it. Mm. Picking it up and dropping it. Mm. This truck, no matter what Jelani did to it, it just kept going. Mm. And at the end of telling that story, toward the end, I go, when. When Jelani would pick the truck up and drop it, I was surprised it would keep going. But when Mattel built that truck, Mattel said when they had the truck on the assembly line, this truck right Here is going to meet Jelani Malik Nichols. And this truck needs to be extra strong, and this truck needs to be extra tough. And this truck needs extra endurance. I believe in whatever your faith is. Just as Mattel knew what that Tonka truck was going to go through, when God had you on the assembly line, when God was building you and shaping you, God knew what you were going to go through. They said, this woman, she's gonna be picked up and dropped a few times. This man, he might lose his job. This woman, she might be lied to. This man, he might get exhausted. That everything you need, you were built with.

[B]

See, I would never think of that. Nobody would. Like, this is my point. Like, that is what I'm saying. Like, that's. In no world would I ever think to create a story out of a Tonka truck.

[A]

Because you're looking at all of it together. Remember, I told you in my mastermind, at my home, I break it up. They don't have it together. You don't come with it together. It's just an incident. And we help to unpack. And I even have the way to show you how to unpack the incident. I got the framework. Trust me when I say I understand why you can't see it. Because you haven't seen the framework yet. That I have. I get it. Everyone was telling me this about eight years ago. I don't. Lisa, I don't get it. Okay, great. So every day I would go in my office and I'd go, how can I help her? How can I help Jennifer get it? So now I have a framework for how to tell the Tonka story. I'll show you how to do that. Then the way you get over to the inspiration. Remember the Tonka story, Was Jelani picking up the Tonka truck and dropping it. The bridge was. I don't know what your faith is. And my faith, I call him God. And your faith, call him whatever you choose. But I don't believe. Now I'm over in a whole different part. I'm out of the story. Now I'm into the inspiration. So you see it all together, smooth like butter. Right. Earlier when you did the audience connection, you didn't even know that I had done a technique on you. Smooth like butter. So when you put them all together, your technique, stacking, you can't see the difference. You can't see where one starts and the other stops. But I stopped the story. I went into the bridge, and then I went into the inspiration, and then I was on my way into the charge you don't know that because you haven't seen the framework. But once you see the framework, you will blow your own mind. When you do it individually. Then I go, okay, let's put it together now. Like, I've had people cry at their own story, cry at their own. And they've never cried before. And they always say, I don't cry. I go, I know. I'm not trying to make you cry, but be open if you do. I got tissue just in case you do. Because they get more out of themselves. I was sitting in one of Jack Canfield's training, and I did my thing, and there's like 200 leaders. And this guy came up to me afterwards. I won't say his name. You won't know him anyway. But he goes, I don't cry. I said, okay. I don't cry. I never cried as a child. Okay? You made me cry. I said, okay. Like, I thought I was in trouble. Russian, very direct, very stern. I want to pay you to help me make other people cry. I said, I don't want you to pay me. Like, he scared me. He was really intense. I said, I don't coach people. This is when I first. I never coached anyone on storytelling before. Cause it was too easy for me. I'm like, in my culture, in my faith as well. I grew up Baptist. If something's of value, it has to be difficult, right? It can't be a natural gift, and it can't be easy. And so he was like, I want you to pay me. I want to pay you to help me make people cry. I said, I don't know how to do that. Just teach me how to tell the story the way you told the story. I do a horrible accent, but. So I kept trying to tell him no. So he. I said. He goes, how much? I said, well, it's $25,000 for a full day of VIP. Knowing that he was going to say no, he goes, I want three days. I was. I was like. Like, I. I could puke. I could puke. I was so nervous, and I didn't know what to do. So it's what forced me to figure out how to tell someone how to tell a story in a way that was powerful. So for three days, he would tell me his story. He would just sit across very firm and tell me the story with stern face. And then I would replay the story back to him and put what I call on it. Texture. Same story.

[B]

Yeah, just texture. I totally get it.

[A]

Same core, just texture. I didn't change the details at all. And he would sit there and cry. I am crying. See, you made me cry. Do it again. And that's what started me coaching people on how to tell a story. So part of it is you tell me your story, and then you videotape me telling you your story back. Now you see, oh, you could see the variance and the variance that you see from me. I then teach you each technique individually because altogether it will feel overwhelming. But you can learn it. When I tell you the person who runs the marathon at one point didn't know how to walk.

[B]

No, I think, listen, if anyone's going to do it, you're going to do it. I mean, by the way, I got to say, I had all these questions for you, and I just. We didn't. I didn't ask you any of them.

[A]

Congratulations. We just leaned into each other.

[B]

Well, I have a couple more questions.

[A]

I'm good.

[B]

Do you mind? Okay.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Because I think this is important, right? Because I think I want to know some of the biggest mistakes people make when trying to inspire others.

[A]

They have a monologue, not a dialogue. They talk at people and not with them. They expect their audience to put skin in when they're not putting any skin in. There's no transparency. There's no vulnerability. You want me to give you my all, but you've given me nothing. They speak as if they've arrived and not as if they're on a journey. They touch humility at the beginning as a protocol, and they don't live in it. They ask the audience to buy something from them before they've earned the right to sell. They do passive aggressive shaming. Shouldn't, wouldn't, couldn't. They assume that everyone starts at the same dot. You are here. Not everyone's there. Speak to the variance of the human experience. Many people speak through one set of lenses, whether it's a cultural lens or a gender lens or a faith lens. And they don't allow multiple lenses to exist in the message. And I have to, as the listener, find my lens instead of you giving it to me. And I just want to know that I fit in this story. So the listener is trying to fit in your story. You see, you pushed a butt. Like you.

[B]

No, I think all of that is why I think that's so accurate. Right. And I think that that's why story, being able to connect with an audience and do storytelling is what you do so well is so hard. Right. And that's. After all of this, I still think it's something that. It's an art. It's an art.

[A]

It is an art. I just taught. I taught. I was just teaching. Oh yeah. Today, today and yesterday I was teaching a webinar and it was the art and science of impactful speaking. It is an art and it is a science. And a lot of people have the science and people who are just great orators but you don't quite know where they're going. They have the art. But when you dance, which is I think the answer to your, you know, why am I one of the only women? If not the only woman is because I pull in the art and science and linear people who need to be anchored, they're going to ground in the science. And people who are about the emotion and the feeling, they're going to be rooted in the art. And if you can dance art and science, you'll get them Both always.

[B]

That's 100% true. I feel that. I feel that. I think that is again though a talent that is so hard to do. But everything you've shown me today with the techniques and how you do it and the bridges, like it's. It actually gives me like hope.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like not because I think that. No, like, not because people can become a 10, but if you can even move from a 3.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or a 1 or a 0 to a 4 or a 5, that gives people the confidence. Right. Especially if you're trying to be a leader and you're trying. Because that is such a big piece of leadership, I feel is to being a really effective communicator.

[A]

Absolutely. It's a non negotiable. And imagine what you've done at a zero or what you've done at a. At a four. If we can take you from a zero to a four, from a four to a six now what will you do?

[B]

Absolutely. Okay, now completely switching gears, two things. Number one, I want to know what is the most asked question that people ask you because you've been around for many years in the trend and transformational now in terms of now you're the Phil Jackson, not the Michael Jordan. Right. Of all these, the span of years, what is the thing that you see the most and what people ask you about the most?

[A]

It's so funny because I don't know how you feel, but I still get tickled at being considered. I was at Mindvalley recently and before that I was at another event and the young bucks, the 34 year olds and the 37 year olds and the 29 year olds call me a living Legend. And I'm grateful for any, I'm grateful for all the labels people choose to give me. I just don't get caught up in any of them. But I, I was tickled at. I was like, well, the good part is the living, living legend and that I have a body of work that has spanned enough time for you to say in the last 28 years, what have you been asked about most? Right. And I'd say the last 15. The. This is what you do when you've been experiencing a few Pauls. I think the number one thing that I've seen is people wanting one confirmation that what they believe in their belly is so for them is true and that they're not crazy dreaming that that dream can become my reality. Like just is that possible? And on the flip side to that is I can do it no matter what's already happened. Like, I. Like that is my, that's my possibility no matter what's happened. So people want confirmation and validation that that is a reality that's yours to have and it's not keeping score on anything that's already happened. That's the number one thing I see, no matter where I mean, people coming from, you know, very well lifestyles to, you know, bootstrapped up the number one question that I'm asked and a lot of people ask, how can I be unforgettable? I want to make an impact. How can I make an impact? I want to make an impact with my life. You know, they may not want to be Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi or their version of that. That's me. I really want to do. I want to. I want to. I want to do human work. I want to do human work. And if I can do human work by giving people their voice and helping them strengthen their voice and make them unforgettable. And then I. My work here is good. So I'm excited about, you know, my next 10 years. The question that I'm probably asked the most now is what will you tell your younger. What would you tell your younger self? I get asked that a lot. I'm just blown away. So what would you. What would you tell your younger self? And I laugh because it used to be my younger self and I think, oh, my 20 year old now I think my younger self is my 35 year old. My younger self gets older.

[B]

How old are you now?

[A]

58.

[B]

Oh, 58, yeah. Great.

[A]

Very excited about that. Love my 58. But I get asked that a lot because people are looking for it. I love what you said between A and Z. Tell me what's in the middle. You're at Z, right? But what's in the middle? And people are looking for breadcrumbs, instructions, frameworks, blueprints, evidence, outlines. And I believe that a lot of times the experts are offering the possibility without the outline, offering the possibility without the blueprint, because they're afraid that if they give you the blueprint, you'll stop coming to them and stop giving them your money. That's my opinion. And so I love making it available.

[B]

I think that. Well, I think that's exactly the problem with social media these days. Right. Because I think you have a lot of people who can, who can flowerly speak about all these possibilities.

[A]

I'd say nothing.

[B]

But there's, but there's zero. There's zero. It's very, it's very vapid because everybody needs to know. Like you, like I said to you, it's like, I get that you were down and out, and I get now that you're a multimillionaire, what's the first three steps to even start and then what's after that? Like there's there, there's tranches and there's levels and people don't have, people don't have a blueprint. Then, then, yeah. Right.

[A]

And when you said the beginning, I took you to. When I was diagnosed as clinically depressed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went straight to the mirror. That's number one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in the webinar that we were just teaching that, people were going, you're giving us so much and we haven't registered. I said, if you don't register, it's on you. But at least you walk away. At least do. And I'm a coach, coach. So I go, if you're not gonna act on what I gave you for free, there's no sense in registering. There's no sense in following me. Because you like the sexy conversation more than the application. And application's not always sexy. Application births, outcomes. But it's like an athlete. I'm an athlete. I ran track, I swam competition, I, I was a synchronized swimmer. You know, the swim meet or the track meet, that's only one small part of the entire week.

[B]

I also think that the actual meet is boring. Right? Like what you have to actually do. It's the daily habits that are exceptionally boring that you have to do ad nauseam over and over and over and over again before you move on and get good at them.

[A]

And everyone wants to fast forward. Google Download Excellence. I want a Google download Mastery. I don't know how to tell you how to get to the top without the stairs.

[B]

Right. You need to exact. And that's how I love that line.

[A]

But I'll climb beside you. I'll climb beside you. But you gotta build your glutes and your hams and your quads and your calves.

[B]

Speaking of which, also, side note, you said you lost 100 pounds. How did you do it?

[A]

Well, it was a number of ways. It wasn't pretty. And that's the Broadway show that I talk about. It was the first time I revealed I had six blood transfusions in three years. Yeah, we're gonna get distracted with that. Like, that's a whole.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Like, will you invite me back?

[B]

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I have a whole list. I have a whole list.

[A]

Will you invite me back? So when we come back, I'll talk about my health transformation. But before I talk about my health transformation, I'd love for us to create a safe space for me to reveal my health hell. Because while I was making bestseller after bestseller after bestseller, I was going through a private health hell.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Another conversation. Whole nother day. We gonna have to drink some of the stuff. We gonna have to light the candle and Zen out the room.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I was. I was not expecting that.

[A]

So I know you weren't no one.

[B]

Will you come back soon?

[A]

I will. And I live around the corner. Of course. And you have to know, the only reason why I can talk to you about this is because I decided to come out about it on Broadway. It's why I cried almost every day leading up to Broadway. I was what we call terraccited, part terrified, part excited. But I knew my next iteration of Lisa required me to share with you what you would never know.

[B]

That was last year. You did this, the show in December.

[A]

That was. That was just not 90 days ago. From the recording of this.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

From the recording of this. From sitting in front of you not 90 days ago.

[B]

Okay, I'm not even gonna ask you.

[A]

Yeah, don't even. Like, it's so big.

[B]

Okay, fine. Okay.

[A]

But just for the record, I'm in discussion to do it again in another country, which I'm sure you have a passport.

[B]

I do have a passport.

[A]

And a lot of. A lot of my friends are gonna. When I tell them, they're gonna be like, we'll meet.

[B]

I will go.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I would totally go.

[A]

I know. It's the kind of girls I run with.

[B]

I'm like, absolutely, absolutely. You just tell me when I will be there. I'M like, okay, I know that you got to leave because I know that you have a car and all the other things and what time is it? It's probably like she's so cute.

[A]

Like, can I tell you what you are? You're like new girlfriend drunk. I, I love it. Like it's, can you. You're like new girlfriend. I. And I only know it cuz when I feel it and I see it. You're a new girlfriend drunk. We'll spend time together.

[B]

Oh my God, she's so cute. I love you because you know what I love about you? You have such a nice way about you. And you, I love the way you described. Like, I just like. Cause you're authentic and real number one. But like you actually give people and you give, you gave this episode tangible things that people could integrate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What my biggest pet peeve is when people leave everything and they're very verbose and they talk in platitudes and then people get nothing. They get zero to extract from and they can apply to their own life. And then I leave like very kind of unfulfilled. And then I have to be polite and nice because what else am I going to do?

[A]

I love you. I so love the fact that there are other humans. Sorry for your experience. And I'm glad that there are other humans that understand the pain. Like if you, if this is painful, I'm at, I'm at events. Yeah, I'm at events. And this is my experience. And then they want to go to dinner with all of us. I said there is no way I am going to extend this experience beyond these moments. So thank you.

[B]

No, thank you. Because I, I, I don't do well in, I don't suffer fools. Well. I don't like to sit with people who are very like here and very like, there's no snorkeling. It's exactly.

[A]

You want to scuba dive?

[B]

I want us to like, I'd like, I like to get right in there. I felt it and get shit. Like, like get, get in there. I cannot stand the surface. Like la la la la. And then like leave very, just very unfulfilling. So you delivered lady with your green hat and your leather pants and all of it. So thank you.

[A]

You're welcome. And, and there's one more gift that I brought for you.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

It's on your green leather pants. Yeah, yeah. You can have these. Listen, and I do pass on my fabulosity to my friends.

[B]

Okay. I do, I like them.

[A]

I'll be done with it. And then I'm not attached to it. So I brought a link to a quiz that people can see. How do I rate when it comes to speaking? And most importantly, what should I do when I'm there? What should be the two things I focus on? To move the dial and to move the needle? I realize that I come and I do this, and people are like, okay, what do I do? Where am I? And I spent six hours on an international flight curating. What should you be looking for to really see? Am I at the beginning levels? And by the way, there are people who have been doing it for 15 years who rate at the beginning level. And then am I right in the middle and am I a little more advanced? And then what should I focus on? That's the most important part. What should I focus on if this is where I am? You don't want to eat the whole elephant.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

I think that's what should be my next bite. So if it feels right to your community, it just. It's a. It's a just. It allows you to kind of see where you are and where. And how to get to the next step. Because I'm a. I. I want to. I'm a breadcrumber. Can you give me breadcrumbs? Can you show me how to step forward? Can you give me some clarity?

[B]

So I think most people are breadcrumbers. That's the thing. And I think that you need breadcrumbs to see a path, or else, you know, there's no path. Yeah, but. Okay, Lisa, go check her out. Check out. She's. She has this program. Check her out on Instagram. She's going to come back for part two. You promise, Lisa?

[A]

I will. I will take the quiz. See where you are. Don't judge yourself too much. You have the link. I think it's motivatingthemasses.com quiz.

[B]

I'm going to put it in the show.

[A]

You'll do it? I don't know what it is.

[B]

And yeah, we'll.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry about it. But find out where you are and give yourself grace. Be gracious. Wherever you are, be gracious. I so enjoy you. You are a breath of fresh air.

[B]

You are. Seriously.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you for your commitment to have this conversation with me.

[B]

Thank you for having the conversation with me.

[A]

Absolutely. You're yummy.

[B]

Yeah, you are, too. And so is your husband. Bye.