Episode 445: Amy Chapman: How Voice Control Techniques Can Transform Your Life and Career

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle - Episode 445: Amy Chapman: How Voice Control Techniques Can Transform Your Life and Career

Release Date: April 29, 2025
Host: Jen Cohen
Guest: Amy Chapman, Renowned Voice Coach and Speech Language Pathologist

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Introduction

In Episode 445 of Habits and Hustle, host Jen Cohen welcomes Amy Chapman, a highly esteemed voice coach and speech-language pathologist. Amy brings a wealth of experience from her work with world-renowned artists and everyday professionals alike. This episode delves into the significance of voice control, exploring techniques that can enhance personal and professional interactions.

Amy Chapman's Background

Amy Chapman is a board-certified speech-language pathologist specializing in voice optimization. Her impressive portfolio includes collaborations with global icons such as Shakira, Sia, Meghan Trainor, Idina Menzel, and Anthony Kiedis. As the lead voice coach for the hit show The Masked Singer, Amy has honed her expertise in transforming and maintaining vocal health for high-profile performers. Her unique blend of clinical knowledge and artistic insight makes her a sought-after expert in the voice coaching realm.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [03:13]: "I'm so happy to be here. And it gets me so excited every time somebody reads that. I'm like, God, I'm so cool."

Understanding Self-Esteem vs. Confidence

Jen and Amy begin their discussion by distinguishing between confidence and self-esteem. Confidence pertains to one's belief in their abilities, whereas self-esteem relates to one's sense of self-worth. Amy emphasizes that while someone can be confident in a specific skill (e.g., a football player confident in throwing), they might struggle with self-esteem issues.

Notable Quote:

Jen Cohen [05:01]: "Confidence is like you're confident in your ability to do something. Self-esteem is your worth."

Amy suggests that building self-esteem involves engaging in activities that foster a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, such as regular exercise, which teaches patience and discipline.

Voice Control Techniques

Amy elaborates on various techniques to optimize and control one's voice, making it a powerful tool for communication.

1. Breath Support and Control

Proper breathing is foundational to effective voice control. Amy explains the importance of taking deep, controlled breaths to support sustained and varied vocal delivery.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [19:23]: "Breath support is bringing a big wide breath and not letting it all out. Spread your rib cage out and hold your breath to support your voice."

2. Pitch and Intonation Management

Managing pitch and intonation can convey different emotions and authority. Amy introduces the concept of "down talk" vs. "uptalk," where a downward pitch at the end of sentences exudes confidence, while uptalk can make statements sound like questions, often perceived as less authoritative.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [27:42]: "When you want to sound more dominant or authoritative, your voice should go down."

3. Speed and Pausing

Adjusting the speed of speech and incorporating strategic pauses can enhance engagement and emphasize key points. Slowing down allows listeners to absorb information, while pauses create moments of reflection.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [44:10]: "Speed is huge in how you're delivering something. Take your time. Don't give everything at once. Stop and think about what you're going to say next."

4. Emotional Range and Animation

Bringing emotional range to one's voice prevents monotony and keeps listeners engaged. Amy advises using a full range of emotions and avoiding a flat delivery to make conversations more vibrant and impactful.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [35:01]: "Punch your voice up and down with different intonations to avoid sounding monotone."

Working with Celebrities and High-Profile Clients

Amy shares insights into her work with celebrities, highlighting the balance between maintaining an artist's unique voice and ensuring vocal health.

Tailored Coaching for Artists

With artists like Sia and Miley Cyrus, Amy focuses on optimizing their natural vocal styles without altering their unique sounds. She collaborates closely with them to preserve their artistic integrity while enhancing vocal performance.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [12:06]: "With artists, I'm not going to change them. I'm here to optimize what they do best."

Addressing Vocal Strain

Regular performers often face vocal strain due to extensive use. Amy treats vocal nodules and other issues by strengthening the vocal cords through specific exercises, ensuring longevity in their careers.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [21:17]: "The vocal cords are like muscles. Strengthening them through exercises prevents strain during performances."

Application in Everyday Life

Beyond celebrities, Amy emphasizes that voice optimization techniques are invaluable for everyday individuals, including business professionals, parents, and public speakers.

Communicating with Authority and Warmth

Amy discusses how adjusting one's voice can influence interpersonal dynamics. For instance, a CEO might use a more authoritative tone to convey leadership, while a parent might adopt a warmer tone to foster a nurturing environment.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [52:27]: "How do you want someone to perceive you? Respect, confidence, and warmth."

Public Speaking and Presentations

For public speakers and TED Talkers, Amy provides strategies to make their delivery more engaging. Techniques include varying pitch, incorporating pauses, and using body language to complement vocal delivery.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [36:54]: "Never read off a piece of paper. Authentic delivery with varied intonation makes your speech compelling."

Techniques for Overcoming Nervousness

Amy outlines methods to manage anxiety before speaking or performing, ensuring that nerves do not hamper effective communication.

Square Breathing

A technique involving controlled inhalation, holding, exhalation, and holding again helps center oneself and reduce anxiety.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [64:43]: "Before you speak, center yourself with square breathing to calm your nerves and achieve focus."

Visualization and Connection

Visualizing the audience as individual members rather than a collective can create a more personal connection, making the speaker feel more at ease.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [65:10]: "Think of your audience as individual people you're having a conversation with, not as a faceless crowd."

Practical Exercises and Action Items

Amy provides actionable steps for listeners to practice voice optimization.

1. Identify Strengths

Write down three things you're excellent at in your professional or personal life to build self-esteem and confidence.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [59:34]: "Write down three things you're fantastic at in your job. Start with your positives."

2. Emphasize Key Words

During conversations or presentations, identify and emphasize key words to draw attention and convey importance.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [59:55]: "Punch the word that you want people to remember, like 'best' in 'I am the best bread maker in the world.'"

3. Use Pauses Effectively

Incorporate strategic pauses to allow listeners to absorb information and to emphasize points.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [36:54]: "Use pauses to create moments of silence where your audience reflects on what you've said."

Conclusion and Final Insights

Amy Chapman wraps up the conversation by reinforcing the importance of authentic voice optimization. She encourages listeners to practice regularly, adapt their voice to suit different contexts, and embrace the subtle art of "faking it till you make it" to build genuine confidence.

Notable Quote:

Amy Chapman [58:36]: "We're all putting on a bit of an act. It's about finding authentic warmthness that aligns with your professional and personal objectives."

Jen Cohen expresses gratitude for Amy's insights, highlighting the practical value of the techniques discussed. Listeners are encouraged to integrate these voice control strategies into their daily lives to enhance communication, leadership, and personal fulfillment.

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Key Takeaways:

• Voice as a Tool: Effective voice control can significantly impact personal and professional relationships.
• Self-Esteem vs. Confidence: Building self-esteem enhances overall voice performance, beyond just being confident in specific abilities.
• Tailored Techniques: Voice optimization techniques should be customized to individual goals and contexts.
• Practical Exercises: Regular practice of breath control, pitch management, and strategic pausing can lead to lasting improvements.
• Authenticity Matters: While techniques can guide voice modulation, maintaining authenticity ensures genuine and effective communication.

Connect with Amy Chapman:

• Instagram: @AmyChapmanVoiceLab
• Website: Voice Lab LA

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This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for anyone looking to harness the power of their voice, offering expert advice and practical strategies to transform how they communicate and connect with others.

Transcript

[A]

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[B]

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan living better and longer, there are very few non negotiables. One of them quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous. Momentous goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dietitians across the country. Here's the thing, they don't sell every supplement under the sun because they believe in nailing the basics with rock solid consistency. And those basics are protein and creatine. Momentous sources. Creapure, the purest form of creatine monohydrate available. An absolute must for both men and women who want peak physical and cognitive performance. So if you're serious about leveling up, go to livemomentous.com and use code Jen for 20% off. Just act now. Start today. Jen for 20% off livemomentous.com today on the podcast we have my very new friend. Her name is Amy Chapman and this girl is first of all the best personality ever. But besides that, she is the, I don't even know what we call the biggest voice coach, guru, expert on the planet. And when I read off and riddle off her resume, you'll understand what I mean. Listen to this. She is a highly sought after vocal therapist, renowned singing voice specialist and leading expert in voice optimization. With an unparalleled combination of clinical expertise and artistic experience a Amy has built a remarkable career transforming the voices of some of the world's most celebrated performers. As a licensed and board certified speech language pathologist, she brings a deep scientific understanding of vocal health and physiology to her work. Listen to some of her clients, guys. Amy's career spans a diverse range of industries from television to tory music artist where she's worked with some major stars like Shakira Sia, Meghan Trainor, Idina Menzel, Anthony Kiedis, my personal favorite and so many others. She's helped these global icons optimize their voice health, expand their range, enhance their performance and prevent vocal strain. And I can go on and on. She's also like the lead voice coach for that show, the mask singer. I mean there's so many things, it's unbelievable. And when I, when I, when I, when I met you, the fact like, how many things I've learned. I learned so much in that one conversation when I first met you that I, I had to have you on this show. So thanks for being here.

[A]

I'm so happy to be here. And it gets me so excited every time somebody reads that. I'm like, God, I'm so cool. I'm like, God, it is good. But I have such a high self esteem anyway. And I'm like, yes, good job, Amy.

[B]

You know what's amazing? I. I love that you don't feign like, you know, compliments like that. Because so many times people sit here and they're like, oh. Like, they try, they try to feign humility, right? Like, oh, you're like, no, I am the, Like, I've done all this stuff. I've like, have a huge career. I've done it. I'm doing it and you own it.

[A]

You know what, when we talk about, I know we're going to talk about like confident voice and all that, but I think with the confidence, the self esteem is so huge and in my office, in my studio that I have people, I always say like, this is a brag friendly zone. I want no humility whatsoever. Like, if you sounded good, be like, yes, I sounded good. Because when we start to do the like, that wasn't so good. Then you're like, ew.

[B]

I totally agree.

[A]

Nobody wants to be with that.

[B]

I don't know why. It's also like a very, like women, women do that, right? They always like, no, no. Like they want to be smaller than they really are. And if they, they're good, they have to apologize for being good.

[A]

Oh, I don't apologize for being good.

[B]

Apparently not. No, no.

[A]

You're like, keep on reading. I'm like, there's more. Go to the next paragraph.

[B]

I know you're probably like, you left out a few lines there, Jennifer. Why?

[A]

I've got a few more. Who do you want to hear? No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're so taught to be like humility and humble pie. But like, why?

[B]

I don't know. You know, you said something. I always wonder this, and I ask this a lot, like to myself, right? Like, what is the true difference between self esteem and confidence? Right. Know what the difference is?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, tell me.

[A]

Confidence is like you're confident in your ability to do something. Self esteem is your worth.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So you can have one and not the other. Like a football player can be like, I'm confident in the way that I can throw this ball, but I don't like myself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But if you like yourself and you can throw that ball, you're winning all around.

[B]

You know, I don't even know. How does someone even. I know we haven't even gotten into the voice stuff yet, but, like, this is one of these topics that I talk about a lot because it's like, how do you truly teach somebody to have a sense of self worth or self esteem? Because you're right. Confidence. You could be. You can feel confident. It's also like, it's. It's fluid. You could be confident one day because you feel confident. You can do one particular thing and then something happens or you can't. You don't feel confident the next day. But true self worth, that. That is hard to teach somebody. Either you kind of have it or you kind of don't, but. Or in my opinion. But do you think there's ways we can help or teach that to people?

[A]

Totally. I mean, like, if we think of our own self talk of like, that wasn't good. That wasn't so great. I don't look so good. Every day. I look in the mirror and I do. You know, like, first, I had once a therapist who was like, you need to do the self talk and like, tell yourself the positive things. And my eyes rolled so far back in my head, I was like, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that. Like, I'm not gonna sit and be like, you're beautiful, you're smart, and someone likes you. I'm not gonna do that.

[B]

Oh, God, neither would I. 100%. It's so awkward.

[A]

It's so awkward. But if you're telling yourself that over and over and over and you're like, girl, you're hot. You are doing great. You are amazing. Your personality is good. Look at your life. If you just tell yourself that it's that. Fake it till you make it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You'll still start to fall in line and be like, I am God. You know, I am hot. My body is great. I am. I am successful. Like, you listen.

[B]

So the way I agree, but I think the way I would always define it is if you want to have true self worth, do things for yourself that make you really feel truly good about yourself. For me, it was like exercise and working out. When I took that seriously, it taught me such foundational skills about life. Like, fitness for me was like a microcosm for real life. Like the patience, the discipline. And when you start like honing in on these, like, foundational skills and you know you can actually get through Hard things. It gives you self esteem.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That's to me what I felt like you. I. I'm like, I worked out. I work out all the time, so I know I have an okay body. So why am I going to like, pretend that I don't think so? Like, you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. You're like, no, I work at it.

[B]

Yeah. Like, this is not.

[A]

I earned this.

[B]

I earned this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think when someone feels like they work for something and they take action to get something, that helps them.

[A]

With their self esteem as well, I think that's big. I think also, like working on whatever it is, however you do it. So whether it's working out, which I wish I could say the same, that I work out every single day, I don't, but I work every single day. And that's the thing that I'm like, I'm good at this because I do this day in, day out. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Like, so, because you were you. When you were younger, were you just. Were you a singer?

[A]

I was a singer, yeah.

[B]

So you were like an artist who was just.

[A]

I wouldn't call myself an artist.

[B]

Okay, what would you call yourself?

[A]

A singer. So there's such a difference.

[B]

Okay, tell me.

[A]

Between an artist and a singer. A singer is like someone who can sing. An artist is. There's an artistry behind it. So I would look at someone like Amy Winehouse and be like, you're an artist. Like, you see that difference of someone who's like, she's doing her own thing, she has that brand, that style, and then someone else. I don't even want to say like, Like, I think Ariana Grande is a wonderful singer and some people would call her an artist, but I'm like, you're a great singer and your art is in that voice of that beautiful sound. Or maybe like, Taylor Swift is a good one.

[B]

That's a great example of. Let's stick to the Ariana. Because I was listening to her on a podcast and I thought to myself, kind of, she said that she writes her own music. I didn't know that she did, but by the way, I thought she just had a beautiful voice and that people write her music. I don't know, one way or the other. Maybe, you know, sometimes it's a mix of both. Okay. It's probably. But I think it becomes a mix of both when you're a huge star. Sure. Right. So. But I always thought that she was a great. She had a beautiful voice that made her a great singer. But you're right. I never looked at her as an artist. She didn't come across.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is there a difference between an artist, a singer, and a star? Or is a star and an artist the same thing?

[A]

No, because you can be an artist and not be a star, right?

[B]

Yeah, that's 100% true.

[A]

You can be, like, a fantastic artist, but nobody knows you or very few people know you. So you're not a star level. And you can be an awesome singer and not an artist. You can be an awesome artist and not really a singer.

[B]

So Ariana would be more of a star.

[A]

She's a star. She's a singer. And you know what? Some people are gonna watch this and be like, amy, you're wrong. She is an artist. And I think that is completely subjective if someone's an artist or not. I think you go back to the question. You're like, well, what is art? What makes somebody an artist?

[B]

Like Taylor Swift. You were gonna say something about that.

[A]

I was gonna say Taylor Swift to me. I'm like, you are a singer. You are a st. Star, and some people will call you an artist, but I'm like, I call you a singer and a great singer.

[B]

So why. Why would she not be an artist?

[A]

To me personally, I'm gonna get. So you'll never get hired by them. I know. I'm so sorry. Her people even, like, reached out to me recently, and I'm like, now they'll never.

[B]

Yeah, now they're gonna hire someone else.

[A]

Someone completely else. I'm really shooting myself in the foot. My husband was like, watch your mouth when you go on the show. I'm like, I can't. I can't. Things just come out, by the way.

[B]

Which makes you even more likable because.

[A]

I'm just like, I'm so sorry. It's coming. Going to stop it to me, I'm like, you're great. And, like, that's what you are.

[B]

But what. Okay, so if someone.

[A]

I'm not. I'm not thrown back and excited and been like, ooh. When I hear someone like an Amy Winehouse or like, I'm trying to think of, like, all the different people at the Grammys, and I'm like, oh, that was different. That was art.

[B]

Okay, so that's. Okay. So this is very interesting because Taylor Swift, right? She writes her own music. Maybe now she does. Like, she has a million people who collaborate with her. Right. Herself, but that was, like, her whole thing. She was a singer, songwriter, right? Doesn't. I thought if someone's a Songwriter and they're a performer that kind of create makes them more of an artist. Yeah.

[A]

And they are an artist. I'm. I'm really just giving my own.

[B]

But I see what you're saying, because the truth is, when I think of, like, an artist, I think of someone who's more. There's more darkness there.

[A]

Darkness. A creativeness. Like, I look at Sia and I'm like, ooh, you are an artist and you're a singer and you're a star. You're all of those things.

[B]

Yes. Because. Is it. Because there's like a uniqueness to them.

[A]

Something. It's different. You see it and you're like, that's art. That is different. You're creating a whole other path for you and that. You're portraying that.

[B]

Right. And, like, nobody could can copy it, really. Because there's only be one Sia.

[A]

Because they're like, oh, you sound like Sia.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, like, you have a brand, you have that art. You are. Put your stamp on it and it's you.

[B]

And you've worked with her before. And so, like, how does an. How does an artist. Like, how do you work with an artist versus just a singer? Is there a difference? Yes.

[A]

And every artist is different.

[B]

You're an artist. You're an artist.

[A]

I'm an artist, but not an artist in my singing.

[B]

I know you think you're a singer.

[A]

Yeah, like, sure, I have a little bit of style when I sing. Yes. But I'm not like, oh, I created my own thing and this is my art and I need to. Yeah, it's not like that. My art is how I work with people.

[B]

Right. I understand that. I know we're going to get back to. But I'm curious. We just talked about Sia. So, like, working with an artist like her, what's like, how do you work with her versus a singer or a star?

[A]

Cool. So I would. With a singer, I'd mold them. I'd be like, I'm going to tell you what to do. You're going to do this riff. You're going to change your voice this way, make this sound like this. I will give artists. I will give singers coaching and artists. I will give support. So I'm not going to tell Sia where to put her voice and how to do her riff. That's her thing. But I will tell her the things to optimize what she does. So a lot of people come to me especially with, like, nodules or vocal difficulties or something going on with their voice since I am a voice therapist. I work and I treat the voice, but I'm not going to change them. Meaning I'm not going to say like, don't sing breathy and husky like that anymore. Sing clean and clear, even though that would be better for their voice and be healthier. I'm not going to do that because I'm not going to change you as an artist. And I think that's why a lot of artists like me because I'm not trying to change them. A lot of other voice therapists, and I'm not saying they're doing anything wrong, everybody has their own style. Will be like, that's not healthy. So sing it a little bit more clear and a little bit more pingy and a little bit more right there. And they're like, no, I don't want to. I'm an artist. This is my thing. I sing it like this. So how can I do it like this but healthier? So that's how I would be different with an artist versus a singer.

[B]

So you were a singer? Tell me. So let's get back to you for a minute now because you were a singer, not an artist. So how did you. What was your evolution? Because given your personality, you like, you have, you seem to have the package. Like I heard you sing with my mom earlier. You were singing like opera?

[A]

Yeah, I trained in opera when I was a kid. That's how I started is classically singing. And I was like, this is so much fun. And then I went to a performing arts high school and it was so much fun. And obviously I'm a performer. You can see it in me. I don't stop and I love it. And then I went to UCLA for musical theater and there was a certain point I, I had a masterclass with Diane Keaton and she said, if you can do anything else in this world, do it. And I was like, oh, I can do a lot of things. And that's where I. And I come from a very medical family. And they're all healers. My dad's a doctor, my mom's a nurse, my brother in law's a doctor, my cousin's a doctor. Like everybody's doctors in my family. And I love to heal, I love to teach, I love to heal, I love to take care of people. And I also love music and voice. And then I put it all, I was like, I can take that and help that and be a voice healer. And then it turns into coaching because no one wants to be injured. No one likes to be injured. Right so it's all about the coaching, and every singer who's a professional singer is, like, a little bit injured because you're using your voice so much. It's just like every football player has a bum knee or a back hurt. When you are an athlete of whatever it is, your body takes a toll. You need someone to have support. So then it started going into that and the way that I just. I work with voice, I hear voice, I feel voice, and I really intuit what people are doing, and it just built my reputation of that. Of doing that. So I went to. After. After that, I went to school for speech pathology.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Got a master's in speech pathology. Started working with really injured singers, and then it just sort of blended to all voice. I work in animated voice. I help people make sounds. I help people, like, who have, like, funny little voices and, like, do funny things. I, like, help them shape their voice. I work on Rick and Morty. I help the new Rick and Morty characters sound like the old Rick and Morty because I can hear and I can feel what people are doing with their voice and what they need to be doing with their voice.

[B]

So that's so fascinating. Right. Like, it's. So your path was. Is very, like, it's very unique. Right. Because you were. Or is it not? Like, do most people who do what you do, who are voice coaches and voice experts do. Are they usually. Were they usually singers prior?

[A]

Yeah, I would say, like, pretty much every voice teacher and voice coach was a singer at some point. It's a weird profession to go into if you weren't.

[B]

Well, yeah. Or how many. Or. Or how many people who have voice who. Who become a voice pathologist. Not. What was it called? Yeah.

[A]

Voice therapist.

[B]

Voice pathologist. Pathologists go into voice coaching.

[A]

Not that many.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There are not that many voice therapists. Like, this is a very niche. And then I took it even more niche. So, like, I am really, really right there. But I brought it so far to the niche point that then I expanded it out to not niche. Like, everybody's got a voice, right.

[B]

And then you just. You help them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how did you get, like, I'm obsessed with Anthony Gitis, but because I just think that he's. So. He's an artist.

[A]

He's an artist, right? Yeah.

[B]

How did you get into that lane of working with some of these, the biggest names in the world, like Shakira, Anthony Kiedis, whoever.

[A]

A lot of times the managers will find me.

[B]

How. What was the first time?

[A]

I think Sia was the first time. And I signed a lot of NDAs for a lot of things. So I can't talk about like too late now. I know, well, they're fine, but I can't talk about everybody and why they come to me for certain things. But they'll find me if they're going on tour and they just need some tour training and my name has floated around there, you know, I think managers and tour managers all know and they're like, cool, My client's about to do a big year long tour. They're having maybe some issues or we just want to make sure that they're strong so we don't cancel shows. So can you work with them before? And then they meet me and they're like, okay, I like you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they just keep me on for life.

[B]

What I always, I'm curious about, like even watching the Grammys. Right. How do these people run around for out like and sing at the same time? I know that's probably. Most of it slips. There's like a voice track behind. But for the artists who are really artists and they're going on tour for two hours, how are they able to like sing and then dance at the same time?

[A]

I have an elliptical in my office.

[B]

You do?

[A]

Yeah, I do. And it's so people can sing and breathe and huff and puff and sing all at the same time. But yeah, cardio is a big part of it.

[B]

I remember Nicole Scherzinger. I was at Working out beside Me many, many years ago, and she was running and singing at the same time to train her to. To learn how to train herself.

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Beyonce does the same thing.

[B]

She runs.

[A]

And Miley Cyrus does the same thing. Yeah.

[B]

They run and. And sing the same thing.

[A]

Yep, yep. Because you need to train your voice to be able to come together while you're like, right. Doing that. So yeah, it's all a training.

[B]

How else do you control your voice? How. How else do you teach people to control their voice like that?

[A]

I mean, breath, breath, support. Bringing a big wide breath and not letting it all out. So that big, wide. Spread your rib cage out and hold your breath and then be able to talk, boss. Not just not letting it all out. So keeping that support and like an.

[B]

Edenizer like, who's like, massive. Right? So she's frozen. She's all these things. Can you tell me why you're going to. That's where you're going right now to.

[A]

Do New York show.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Opening a new Broadway musical called Redwoods. It's fantastic. And, yeah, just helping her prepare for that, making sure that she's going to stay strong throughout. Because Broadway is a whole different beast. You have to do eight shows a week, right? So she's singing eight shows a week. And so I'm making sure that her voice is strong, that she can do all these things with a lot of this stuff. So a, we're training her voice. That's like muscle coming together.

[B]

How do you train a voice? Like, what do you. How does it work? Give me like, yeah, if I go to the gym, I'm going to train my legs, I'm going to do my squats and my lunges and do all those things. Like, you know, I know how to train my, you know, your body. How do you train your voice? Just by practicing.

[A]

Practicing and very specific exercises. If somebody has a weaker voice or their voice is like a little bit breathy and they sort of talk like this, I will give them a hard exercise. Like hold that right? Just holding a long, hard, ah, go up the scale. It's muscles. Your vocal cords are the size of your thumbnail. Do you know that? So teeny tiny and all it is is tissue. And then there's muscles on the side. So you bring it together. So I will have a soft voice like that. Ah. Give that really big loud sound, but not in a place where they're screaming and hurting themselves, but something that's really nice and supported and. And then if somebody has a voice that's too hard and too rough, then I'm going to take it down.

[B]

And.

[A]

I'll be like, okay, now for you, it's different. We're all so different. Everybody's vocal cords look different. Everybody's body's different. Everybody's throat, everybody's mouth, everybody's size. Everybody's so different. So there's not one way how to do everything.

[B]

Okay. But if someone. Because a lot of times people's voice are strained because they're like, you said, just yourself. Like, she's doing eight shows in Broadway, right? Or people are like Anthony Kiedis, who's screaming and yelling for five hours while he's performing. Don't they just. If you're training them, don't. Isn't. Don't they just need recovery and just. Just to not sing and not talk.

[A]

Well, that's a part of it sometimes, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's like, no, you need the strength to be able to do that.

[B]

Right? How do you strengthen a voice?

[A]

Exactly that. So if I'm going, ah, but isn't.

[B]

He doing off for five hours?

[A]

No, because when you're performing, it's a little different. You're singing things and bouncing off walls and doing something else. But if you're sitting there, it's just the same as lifting weights. You're lifting weights, but with your voice. So you're sitting there and you're holding it, and you're holding it in the right place. All your muscles are coming together in the right place. So then all of a sudden you're out and you're like, oh, now I can just do whatever. And I have that strength. Like, you work out, you do sit ups. So then you have nice abs. When you're out on the beach, it's the same.

[B]

Not if you eat really badly, but. Okay, go on.

[A]

That's why I'm not wearing a bikini on the But. But you do that. You train your voice with strength exercises or taking away strength exercises. You're not screaming on stage, so you're doing something else. And your vocal cords are coming together softer. So you don't need that much recovery time.

[B]

How do you. Okay, so how would you. For a regular person who's not an artist, pop star, or singer, just like a regular business person, mom, whoever. How can they optimize their voice in any way that, like, if I want to. If I want to sound more serious and more authoritative, how do I train my voice to be that way? How do I train my voice? Like that video that you just said. Right. Like what? Like I hired a speech therapist to fix my boring voice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how does someone fix their boring voice so to sound better?

[A]

I want to answer this and I also want to ask you a question.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

What voice do you like? What do you like to listen to in general? Yeah. If there's a person you like or a sound that you're like, okay, I like.

[B]

I do like Sia.

[A]

Okay. It can even be a speaking voice. Doesn't have to be a singing voice.

[B]

Okay. What voice? What kind of voice do I like?

[A]

Yeah. Is there somebody that you're like, I love to listen to them. Or on the contrary, is there somebody that you hate to listen to? Listen to?

[B]

I have a lot of people I hate listening to. I can name a hundred right now. You know, I like listening to people who have an English accent.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Or an Australian accent.

[A]

Love an accent.

[B]

Right. Me too. And who kind of comes, who's has a softness. I don't want a hardcore voice because I'm around it all the time.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What does it do to you?

[B]

I don't know. I guess it may I. I never thought about it. I actually. Let me change my answer. The voice I would like depends on what I'm listening to it for. So if I am looking for someone to help me with business, I'd want them to sound self assured and confident. If I'm trying to chill out and relax and fall asleep, I would like a soft, soothing voice.

[A]

Totally. Totally. So everything is different for everything. For every situation. I want a different voice. Like you said when I listen to your podcast, because I did a lot of listening to your podcast before I came on this. And you have Tony Robbins who's giving a clip right before. And he goes, you're listening to habits and hustle. Crush it. And I'm like, oh, terrible. Yeah, it's like, it. It hurts me to hear that. And obviously, Tony's very successful. He knows what he's doing. But his voice, that rough, he's like yelling it. He's like, go, go, go. He's motivational speaker.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

That is what he does. And that voice tells me that he works hard, that he goes and goes and goes and doesn't stop, that he doesn't care necessarily about that softness and that bringing that in. He wants you to go. So he's influencing with his voice, with that rough and d for you to go. He is like your coach. He's your soccer coach, your football coach. He's like, go, go, go, go, go. But if I'm doing a yoga class, I'd be like, nah, bro. Yeah, I can't. I can't listen to that right now. It, like, gives me this. So your voice influences the same way if you're listening to music. When I got into the car to get here, they were playing classical music. And I told my driver, I was like, this is exactly what I needed right now. Because my life has been so crazy. I'm heading out to New York right after this. I'm packing. I'm doing all the things and I just wanted that classical music. But if she had, like, rock and was going and it was hard, I'd be like, no, I don't need that. It's the same with voice. It influences our body in a different way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if somebody is like, how can I optimize my voice? I want to take it a step further and say, optimize it for what? What do you want people to feel when they're listening to you? If you're a mom, like you said, if. Just a moment. Who's she talking to she telling her kids to clean their room? Is she trying to assert her dominance in something like, what is the situation that you are trying to get a certain outcome? So for me right now, in my mind, I want to tell you, I'm a pro at this. I know what I'm doing. I know how I'm sounding. And my objective in this is to sound confident and knowledgeable. And so when I want to sound more confident and knowledgeable, I'm not all the way over here. I'm not like, dragging my voice long. I'm a little bit more to the point, and I'm a little lower in my pitch and I'm not going up talk. So my voice isn't going up, but I'm a little bit more down talk. So the end of my sounds all go down. So it's a comment, not a question, but. But a comment. So it's different. Every single outcome is based on your objective. That makes sense.

[B]

Great answer. I want to clip that. Clip that.

[A]

We have a lot to clip about.

[B]

That was a great. That's a great. So when you want to sound more dominant or authoritative, you. Your voice should go down.

[A]

Yes. That's a huge thing. You hear so many people, and not everybody knows why. They have a feeling of that person is not making me comfortable. But if I hear somebody and her voice is like this and she's saying, hi, Jen, I'm Amy and I'm a voice coach. And I sometimes, like, you're like, enough. I can't. Right.

[B]

You don't take them seriously.

[A]

I would tell them, I would say, number one, is it a question? Because a question goes up at the end, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Huh. You hear that? And immediately I question. And if I'm questioning something that somebody else is saying, I don't have confidence in them. That just like flies out the window.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if she goes down. So now I'm going to take that same kind of pinch small voice. I'm going to say, hi, I'm Amy, and I do this. You're like, okay, that's a little better. And then that pinch right in here. I'm like, that's too small. I want to show big and kids are small. And we hear kids voices in a different way. They're children, they're small, they're little. So it's all little. When I tell people, I say, open your throat. We have a so much space that we don't always use. So then I open my throat. If. If you hear pitch this note. Ah, that's the same Note. But the second one sounds so much lower. Right. You hear it in your brain. It's not. It's the same, but my space in my throat is different. One, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. All of a sudden you're like, well, that's like a confident woman on that second one. And like a little kid in the first one.

[B]

Can you teach someone who normally talk like, like Ariana Grande. Let's go back to her. If you hear her talk, she talks like a baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she has a squeaky voice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But when she sings, she doesn't have.

[A]

That voice because she's controlling it. And she's control. She has great control over her voice, but she's not controlling her speaking. I don't know if she's not doing it because she doesn't want to, because she doesn't care. Because she wants to give the impression of like, I want to be smaller. Because sometimes people like that.

[B]

I think, I think it's done on purpose.

[A]

So we never know. That's why I'm never like, there's one right answer. There's not one right answer.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's what's your objective?

[B]

Because that's a. I love that you said that. Because that is so true. If you want to convey, like, I'm just a sweet, nice, like I. Non confrontational or like, you know, I don't, I'm not, I'm not a. You know, it kind of gives off this, this idea that you're just like sweet and nice and basic and dumb.

[A]

Yeah. I have a friend who's a, A big show host. I won't say I'm where. And she was having. And she's just like so cute. And you'd see her and she sounds like this and she's just like bubbly and so sweet. And she was having a talk with her managers and lawyers and she put her foot down and she was speaking like this and they were like, whoa. And she had to backtrack and say, oh, don't mind me. I'm just like a crazy little Latin chica. And you're like, she did that on purpose. She had to put her voice in that place for them to be like, oh, okay, right now, now we like you. So she's using that small little voice to her advantage. So it's not like we all need to have this big booming low voice sometimes. Like, women can be kind of manipulative and in a great way.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm sure, like even Ariana and I think you're probably talking about Shakira, but I don't know.

[A]

No, I'm not. I'm actually not.

[B]

Okay, because what I was going to say. Because you said lat, but what I was going to say is it's much more likable when people are not intimidated by you. So when you are talking with like authority with your voice down.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

People are sometimes off put because they're more intimidated and more nervous to be around you, especially as a woman, people will think that you're bitchy or rude or bossy. So when you act like that and get what you want and it's much easier for everyone to like to play nicely because they're not, they're not a threat.

[A]

Yeah. So that's why I'm like, what's your objective? What is it? And it can change. So I like to give people tools that you're gonna have a whole tool belt of things that you can choose from. If you're in a room where you want people like, like you and think you're so funny and cute and sweet, then you can talk in such a different way. But if you're in a place where you need to lay down the law and this is not okay, then you can speak in a different way. And some people are like, but isn't that fake? It's like, what's fake? It's your voice. It's what you're trying to get across. Why is it fake? We all have different ways. If I'm getting pulled over by a policeman and I'm talking to my best friend who I'm just like shooting the shit with and I'm just talking like this. I'm not going to talk to the policeman that way. I'm going to say, hi, officer, I'm so sorry, what was I doing? I'm going to change the way I speak. We code switch. We do it all the time. We do it with our parents, with our in laws, with our kids, with our teachers, with whoever I am code switching throughout the day. And I think that's huge. It makes me more successful. It makes the clients I'm working with, they're not like, this girl doesn't know what she's talking about. It's like, oh no, she does. But then I'm going to go to somebody else and be like, yeah, what's up?

[B]

You know, like we code 100%. So okay, so then when this guy hired you or a voice coach to be for his voice to be less boring. What makes A voice boring versus a voice much more exciting.

[A]

So this for that specific buzzfeed, I'll give that as an example. Kane came to me, and he's kind of quiet and a little bit monotone. And he said, hey, Amy. So I do this, and I'm like, what? Like, you're so monotone. You're just right here.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You don't. Nothing varies. You're just, you know, hey, how you doing? It's like, okay, we gotta. We gotta take a step back. What are you trying to get from me? Do you want me to be excited by you? Get me excited. What does that look like? And I will take it further back of like, how did you speak as a kid? How did you want people to see you? Did you like to be in the front? Did you want to be center of attention or no? Do you want that now or no? You know, it goes back and back and back. But for him, I was like, let's get some intonation in there. So move your voice up, Bring it up. Bring your volume up. At different times. Punch different things that you want to come. And don't use your body so you can see. I use my body when I'm talking. I'm not just here, but I keep it bringing out. And that brings people in, so it's not all the. I'm not flailing around. But I want you to use your full body. I want you to use your eye contact. I want you to use your soul. When you're talking to somebody, there's no one else in the room. And if you're talking to a group of people, I want them to feel like there's no one else in the room. You don't have to lock eyes with them, but you have to feel that, like, I am talking to you. I'm giving you my all. And after I talk, I am, like, zonked, right? Because I've given so much energy, I need to recharge.

[B]

So with this guy, or for anybody whose voice is more monotone.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

More boring, how do you train somebody to actually, really envelop that and really do it? Like, it's one thing to do it once after you or twice, but how can you really. If someone is the way they are and that's their, like, their voice most of the time, can you actually change someone's voice like, forever?

[A]

Yeah, I wouldn't have a career if I couldn't do that. I wouldn't be here, Jen.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

Yes, of course. I practice makes permanent. Not perfect, but it Makes permanent the more you do something. So if somebody is very monotone and they sort of talk like this and everything's there, I'd say, punch it up. Let's go. One, two, three, four, five, four, three, two. One, two, three, four, five, four, three, two, one. So your voice is going up in pitch and going down. And I'll say like, give me a sentence. What'd you have for breakfast today? Oh, I had peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Give me that in. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. So you can feel your voice doing. And again, you take it with a grain of salt. You can't always talk like this all the time because then you start feeling like you're on a roller coaster, and that gets a little crazy. But you start getting the movement in your voice. It starts going down, and then it's up, and then it's down. So you're used to that. And then I'll say, okay, let's take it away now. Let's punch what's important. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. And when I say jelly, I'm like, it was the best jelly of my life. It was so good. The things that are important, those words that you really want people to listen to. Because when people are listening, I mean, like, I don't know how many people are going to be like, she had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich today. Like, that's the thing you want to say, but you're not listening to the words.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

You're listening to everything else. The intonation, the fact that I went, you're listening. And I put that in a whisper, that sound, you're like, ooh, bring me more. Bring me in. When I get quiet. And sometimes, like, if I'm telling somebody something, you get quiet. And that doesn't just like, ah, you're more like, yes. Like, you lean into it. So especially, like, I coach a lot of TED Talkers.

[B]

That was my next question.

[A]

Ah, we're. We're soulmates. Yeah. So I coach a lot of TED Talkers, and a lot of people have such great things that they're saying. They've written it out. Their speech. Their speeches are fantastic, or their speechwriters are fantastic either way. But sometimes they can't deliver it, or they're just reading it off, and you're like, first of all, never read off. I'd rather somebody ad lib Everything get half the stuff wrong than read off a piece of paper. Because when you're reading off a piece of paper you're not going to have the big things that go up. It's just going to be because it's.

[B]

Not the words, right. It's how you say it. It's with everything in life though, right. So what you're, it's like people don't get offended by what you're saying. It's how you say it. You can ask someone and trust me, I have in my life. Ye, yeah, I. You can. I can ask someone anything but if I say it in a, in a way that's like, you know, non confrontationally inquisitive versus judgy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can get away with anything.

[A]

Do you curse on the show?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay. So if I'm telling somebody like you, you're so good, you know, like no one's gonna be like right, right, right. She's like you to me. But if I'm like you, you know, and like do it in that way then you're like oh, you know. But like the way we say it and our tone changes everything.

[B]

It's all about the tone. Like I was going to ask you about TED Talks, right. Because I wonder if there is something. I mean. Yes, I know it's the algorithm. I got it.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And but what else makes it that would make somebody. Somebody's TED Talk go viral versus go flat, is it? I thought. What I've kind of thought was the way the person sounds. Not necessarily what I think that the title of what it is the way someone sounds and also how close the camera is to the person's face. That's what I've noticed. But how would you train someone to be the most engaging when they're talking? Like how do you teach someone to be animated and alive when that's not again their natural personality is it just practice. You give them the tools and then they go off and just practice. That's the first part. The second part is what are. What is the step by step way to really own a room, to really kind of take control and crush a presentation like that.

[A]

So a couple different things. I swing a pendulum because I will coach somebody who is pretty boring and I'm going to make them whack a doo. They're going to be all over the top and everything's going to be so crazy and I know that they're going to walk out and be like that crazy lady told me to do too much shit. And that Pendulum's gonna swing back right in the middle, right where they need to be. So I go way far on one side, and I tell them that, too. I'm like, listen, we're going psycho here, and I want you to be free. Because also, if somebody is. A lot of times people are a little bit flatter because they're a little embarrassed to go big.

[B]

Shy.

[A]

They're shy. They're embarrassed. They're just kind of, like, reserved. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[B]

No, I know.

[A]

Yeah, it's all. But if you're reserved, you're like, I don't want to do that. It feels weird.

[B]

Feels weird.

[A]

It feels weird to go big. And I'm like, feel weird. Feel weird. Don't feel shame. Don't feel embarrassed. Because if you're embarrassed, I promise you, your TED Talk's not going to do well. If you're like, I don't sort of like, don't want to be here. That comes across. And people are like, well, if you don't want to be here, I don't want to be watching you. But if someone's like, oh, my God, I want to be here so badly. I'm so stoked to be here. And you can see that you're like, yeah, I want to be here with you. I don't care what you're talking about. You're talking about a toenail fungus. Sign me up. Like, it's so exciting because you're excited. Like, show me that excitement. And then take me on a journey. Show me that excitement. Show me big. So that's why when people are reserved, I'm like, go crazy. I have them jump around. I have them move about. I have them flail their arms up and really go wild. So then they don't feel that shame as much. Like, get weird. Get completely weird. Be embarrassed. Get it out. And then you can find places where you're like, yes, here I am talking about toenail fungus on my TED Talk. And then I'm gonna bring it back because I'm telling you a story. And if every story's at a 10, the whole time, it feels like you're yelling at me. But I have to have you bring it back. And there's gotta be parts where you bring it in. And like I said before, when I'm quiet, you lean in. So then I go big, and I go big where it matters. And then I pull you in, and I'm like, now you come into me because I'm going to bring it here. And then we're going to be someplace else in the middle. So give me a range of emotion, give me a range of things to be excited about. When I see a movie and it's one character and he's the same exact throughout, you're like, you're so boring. But a good movie and a good character, you see an arc, you see them start somewhere else and end somewhere else.

[B]

I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor Therassage. Their Trilite panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach, cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go to. Plus it also has amazing anti aging benefits including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therassage Trilite everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code bebold for 15% off. This code will work site wide. Again. Head over to Therasage T H e r a S-A-G-E.com and use code be bold for 15% off any of their products. Far is the biggest thing was have animation in your voice, of course. And when you want to have more authority, you talk down. When you want to sound more, well, likable or flighty or kind of. What's the word? Easy to like easy. It's easy. You, you, you kind of go up, don't you? End with kind of like a comment, not with a question mark.

[A]

Right. Voice down talk versus uptalk. So that's, that's, that's more the that that confidence.

[B]

The voice of a voice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What other other ways and tips can you teach people how to tweak their voice to sound something. Give me an example.

[A]

So I'm a fast talker. I know that I'm also hyper articulate. So I can speak really quickly but you know exactly what I'm saying and every single sound comes out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I'm not mumbling anything. I'm doing it on purpose. Like when I said mumbling anything. Like that was on purpose. Yeah, that you heard it. So changing the speed at which I'm speaking is so important. It also gives me A chance to pause. And everybody talks about the pause. I love a pause. Even me just saying I love a pause. That moment of silence. You listened. You're like, what is she gonna say?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So speed is huge in how you're delivering something. Am I going faster? Am I stopping? And am I stopping even just to think about the next thing I'm saying? So I'll give people tricks like that. Like, take your time. Don't give everything at once. Stop. And then think, what am I gonna say? How am I gonna say it? What am I going to do with my speed? And that's to switch it up. So it's not. We're all the same speed. We're all the same tone. We're all this. Our ears will get used to everything. That's why whenever, like, I'm sure your mom is like, my mom is like every other mom in the world that yelled at me all the time. Clean your room. And then you just tune it out, because it was all at the same pitch. It was all loud. It was all yelly. It was all that. And you're like.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like it's not there anymore. But she was like, amy, you better clean your room. You're like, okay, Mom. You know, it scares you a different way. Because then all of a sudden, you're like, I have to listen. You're engaging me differently.

[B]

That's so true. So that. What do moms like When I wanted my kid to ch. To clean his room or listen to me, because God knows I. I repeat myself. I get so frustrated. I get so annoyed. I'm sure you do, too. You got kids.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So to be cognizant of not being. Not to sound, not just to be a yell, like, just not to yell the same thing I yelled the day before, two minutes ago. So when you take it in quiet, when you're more quiet or more close up, is it both? So and a pause?

[A]

It's both and a pause. I mean, there's so much there. The number one thing to get somebody to hear you is to make sure they're listening. If I'm just yelling upstairs and they're doing something else, why are they going to listen? But if I go to my kid and I'm like, I have a kid named Mo. I'm like, mo, you need to clean your room now. And he's like, okay, Mom. You know, like, make sure they're listening. That goes with every TED Talk you're doing, too. If you're talking to somebody and they're like, but if you stop and you pause and you're like, it's going to get awkward and then all of a sudden people are going to listen. You're like, now we can go, thank you. And you keep going. You have to be careful what energy you're giving across because sometimes it's like, right, right. You know, like when that happens. So it depends on what you're trying. But if you stop and you're like, thanks so much now. And you can like, do it in a charming way that's just a little bit more approachable for people to be like, got it.

[B]

You know what's interesting right now? Like just during this interview, I can see all the different ranges in your voice. Like, you are a pro. You go quiet, you go loud, you go animated. You do like, it's like, it's amazing how you really have made your voice like your instrument too, and how to teach. Because when you're working with massive personalities, they need to a trust you and listen to you and think that you know what you're talking about. Right. So did you train yourself also to be that way?

[A]

Yes, I became more cognizant of it because I always was animated. I was a performer, so I always had all that there. But then once I started working with other people and noticing it in them, you know, when you teach, you learn. And once I started teaching people, I was like, oh, I can do that too. And then I just became way more cognizant just noticing on everybody else.

[B]

Yeah. What other kind of besides like artists, like pop stars and big, you know, music people, performers. Have you ever been hired by everyday other people to help them with a particular issue, to help them optimize their voice?

[A]

Yes. So I have a big part of my business is like CEOs, managers, people who come to me and they say I need to communicate better with my employees, with whoever. If I'm giving a meeting, I need those people to listen to me, things like that. So I had, I had one recently. And sometimes I have to figure out what they're asking for help. And they'll say like, I need help with my voice, with my tone. And I'm like, okay, let's. Let's dig deeper into that. And they, they don't have the language to necessarily say what it is. And so it was this guy, he was a CEO and he got a lot of heat from his HR about his tone. And I was like, what, like nasal? Are you like, too annoying? Like, what do you mean? And he was like, well, I read all these books he read the. The Negotiator book on, like, that's the.

[B]

One, you know, I have. He was on this show, I'm sure.

[A]

Like, all the people that were on the show, like, all the things that have. Here's your tips and tricks for the best this and. And how to be the master negotiator and confident voice and work well with this. But sometimes it comes across a little robotic if you're like, I am just reading the book and I'm doing every single thing that they're saying, but I'm not actually communicating with a human, that they're just doing that. And once he started telling me, this is what I'm doing and this is how I talk to people and this is what is it? I went, is this how you talk to them, too? Like that. He was like, yeah, of course. And they listen and da, da, da, da. I'm like, okay, let's. Let's stop for a second. What's your goal? What's your objective with the people? Well, I want them to like me. Great, great place to start. So when we're talking about tone, it's like, you're yelling at me like a dad. Like. Like, you're just telling me what to do. You're my coach. And, like, some people don't need that. They need more of a mentor. So if I were to change that objective and say, like, I want you to mentor me a little bit, how would you now talk to me about that? And so then he backed off a little bit. He was like, okay, well, let's see how I can help you. I'm like, there. Do you see how you did that? How you just took it back from that, like, aggressive forward telling you what to do? But, like, now how can I help you? Like, we bring it in in a different way. So for him, I was like, the tone is not necessarily the problem. It's your objective in what it is. And once you have that clear objective of how you want them to perceive you, then it goes a different route and you have a different voice to them. So you have to think about it in a different way. Take that a few steps back.

[B]

Right, right. So you basically. I like how you did that because you want. A lot of people are very robotic. They read a ton of these books.

[A]

And the books are wonderful, by the way.

[B]

But it does. You're not. You're not embodying what it is. It's words, and it's very academic. Right. It's fair. It's very sterile.

[A]

It's very Sterile. And if we all read those books and we all do the things, we're all going to be up a bunch of robots in this society who like, shake hands a certain way and down talk the certain way and work our body to say we're all gonna be the same. Like, we have to have us. Our humanity and the way we communicate with people as well. That has to be a part of it.

[B]

Well, I think the way like you, you make. Especially in a leadership role. Right. Tweaking it from being. Talking down to somebody, like at. Or sorry, at somebody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Versus as a mentor. That's a really good way of putting it. Like, like so to sound more mentor like and not such like, like such a robot. Or would you say. What would be. What would that be called that you're teaching them to do? What were those action items like you're telling them to change their tone, their voice by sounding more mentor. Like. What's that step? What is that step?

[A]

It's taking a step back and getting first the objective. You have to think. You have to. Everything has to. To zoom out a little bit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How do you want someone to perceive you? How do you want them to look at you? Respect.

[B]

But also like that you care.

[A]

That you care. Yeah. Huge. And when you're caring for somebody, it's not like, okay, great, get this in by Monday, right?

[B]

No. 100.

[A]

Hi, how are you? Take a moment. Even I'm. I'm like, you. I am busy. Sometimes I do not have time to ask somebody how they are.

[B]

Yeah, it's a whole thing actually. In business, a lot of people, especially now, you need to kind of like foreplay it for like five minutes. Thousand, you know, how was your weekend? What did you do? And you're like, I just have to get to the point here.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So. But you can't circumvent that. How do you can't get away with that. But not you still. So that's not really a tone. It is a tone, but it's an additional five minutes that you have to add to the conversation.

[A]

So I would take the tone of that of like, how are you? How was your weekend? And I would add that tone to like the thing we need to get done. And sometimes you don't need the five minutes. It's a long foreplay. Get straight to the main meal.

[B]

Go into it.

[A]

Yeah, let's go to the main meal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I would say, hi, thanks so much for doing this. Can I have you do that, please? Thank you again. Where there's a warmth of the.

[B]

A warmth. I guess that's it. Right? Like, I guess what. I'm confused. Not confused is the wrong word. But can you teach somebody how to be warm when they're not naturally like that? Won't it come across fake?

[A]

If it is fake, but you have to also find that authentic warmthness. So you are a businesswoman like me. You get straight to it. What is something that you would tell me? Like if you're telling me a task to do for next week, imagine I'm your assistant. Give me something.

[B]

Oh, give you a task?

[A]

Yeah, give me a task.

[B]

Email Bob.

[A]

Great. Now imagine that like I was hurt or sick or something happened to me.

[B]

But that's eq.

[A]

Sure. But. But wait. But wait. So. So imagine something hurt or happened to me. What would you say to me right there?

[B]

How are you? What? How are you feeling?

[A]

Great. That's something you just did right there. Now with that feeling, tell me to email Bob the same way.

[B]

Can you email Bob, please?

[A]

Bet.

[B]

Right. But this is what I'm saying. What portion this is. Most of it's also like teaching someone eq, like picking up on nuance. So much so understanding how. What. What make people. How I talk to. Like we said earlier, how my tone of voice with you will be very different than my tone of voice with Karen because I know Karen is more sensitive and reads this and like I have to handle her differently. You, you. It could be straight down and dirty and you appreciate it more. Love it. Right?

[A]

Love it. But you have to know your audience.

[B]

Yeah. You need to know your.

[A]

With all of it. When you're speaking to a big crowd or even to one person or a small business meeting. Know your audience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or do they want that down and dirty? Give me it real fast. Or do they need a little bit of that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes you could use a little bit of that in everywhere. Just a little charm.

[B]

Have you ever done like a. Like a real talk where you teach people how to talk?

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

Have you ever done it?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I. I worked with a big office of women, so. Dany Garcia.

[B]

Yeah, I know her. Yeah.

[A]

So I went to her.

[B]

People don't know. So Danny Garcia is the Rock's ex wife, but business partner and she runs Seven Bucks Productions, right? Yeah.

[A]

So she has an awesome business of women. It's all women. And she had me.

[B]

She's a bodybuilder too.

[A]

Bodybuilder.

[B]

She's.

[A]

She's a powerhouse and an awesome, awesome human. But she had me come into her office and speak with all of her women in a big talk situation and say, like, how can we each sound as capable as we are? Because we work in a world of men. We are in, like, a very big man's world, and how can we hold our own? So I did that. I went and I sat and I said, all right, ladies, let's do this. How are we speaking? How do you want to become across? How do you want other people to look at you? You're sitting with a bunch of men so you don't have the same hi that you're talking to your friends. You know, if you're with some other guy, you change it a little bit. And don't be afraid that it's fake. It is fake. We're all a little fake. We're all putting it on. The only time I'm 100% real is when I'm, like, laying in bed and I'm talking to my husband. I'm like, honey, I'm so tired, or whatever it is the one time where I'm just like, I'm not putting anything on, but it's okay to be fake. Like, that's something that has such a bad connotation, and I don't think it should. Yeah, I really don't.

[B]

You know, I think that you're right. There is such a bad connotation. Like, we're all putting it on. We all, like, you know, Chris Rock says, like, we go out, our sales reps, our representatives are the ones who are out there all. You know, when you want to have a date, when you want to, like, impress a girl, a boy, get a job. Your sales rep is doing the job. That's part of life. Like, you're not, you know, if you want to, like, achieve and, like, do things and work nicely with other people, there's going to be an element of an elevated you.

[A]

And that's the EQ of it all, too.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's okay to be fake. We have to just accept that. And it's not like we're fake in a bad way. There's nothing malicious about it.

[B]

No, it's like, you know, I go somewhere, I'm like. I'm like, okay, I gotta go in there. I gotta pull myself together. Like, if you're in a bad mood, okay, and I'm going to a meeting or whatever, I gotta just pull myself together and, like, put it on for 20 minutes.

[A]

Totally. And then you will follow suit again. The fake it till you make it. Yeah, you'll follow suit. You'll get into a better mood if you're smiling and you're having a good time with people and like, oh, yeah, I am pissed. It's too much energy to be pissed.

[B]

That's true. There's like a bunch of people who say, like, if you just smile, you can smile your way to being happy, even when you're not happy.

[A]

Yes. Because you just release endorphins by acting a certain way.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And so that's the same way of all of this. Like, we're going to be the person we want to be. See that? What is your objective? What do you want that to sound like?

[B]

I like what you said also with the capable. Let's go back to that because you already told us a little bit about how to sound like we are in control, that we're knowledgeable earlier. But when you went into Dani's office with the women to kind of help them kind of give off that they are capable, smart women, what did you do? You were sitting there for an hour, let's say. How long was your meeting?

[A]

So I did a few different things. Number one, I did a big talk with everybody and then I went individually one by one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I think sometimes with some of this stuff, like you can give the big generals, but each person is different. You know, that's why I've had such a hard time writing a book because I'm like, it's every person, every human.

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[A]

It's so individual.

[B]

It is. Right. Because every personality is so different. Right. So how you work with one person is going to be different. So pull out a couple examples of some people that were certain ways that you helped them tweak that maybe people who are listening can relate to.

[A]

Right. So I would have everybody, when I was talking to everybody, I would pretend like I was talking individually. And I said, said write down three things you're fantastic at in your job. Like, I want you to think about it and this is where that self esteem comes into it. Like, this is. I want you to brag. I want you to be like, I am awesome at communications or whatever it is. And so I had them all write it down.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I went around and I said, I want you to tell me what it is that you're doing so well. And when you do it, I want you to convince everybody that you're that great. Like, believe it before you say it. And it has to come from here or it's not going to feel authentic. If you're like, I'm the best bread baker in the world, you're like, are you. You know, like. But if you believe it, like, you haven't tried my bread. I am the best bread maker in the world. You know, whatever it is, you have to believe that. So I would start with that. Start with your positives. Start with the things that are easy to prove to somebody else. I am amazing. Then from there, say it. Believe it. Go big. Go animated. What word is the most important in that? I am the best bread maker in the world. And then I'm like, punch that. Punch the word best. Punch the word. That is the one that you want them to really focus on. Like, and it's going to be different words throughout. So I would have them all go around and do different things where they punched a word, and then they would pause before the word or the phrase or the couple words that they wanted people to really listen to. So I am the best bread maker in the world. So then they were like, whoa, whoa. Just to have that pause, have that moment to listen to it and really absorb what they're saying.

[B]

I love that. Is there another example or. That's the. And we can, like, we can wrap it, because I know. You got it. Your car is waiting for you. 1:27.

[A]

Oh, yes. They're always early.

[B]

I know. Well, just.

[A]

No, no, I'm saying they're always early.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, give me a second. Okay. How.

[B]

This is a pause, everybody.

[A]

This is a pause. We can. We can edit this out.

[B]

I know you said pauses are great.

[A]

These are so great.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm getting, like, schmitzy with the light.

[B]

I know. And she's also been on for an hour. See, you get. You're getting. She's been fake for about an hour. So it's like a long.

[A]

I'm gonna come out of here and be like, all right, guys, let's get out of here.

[B]

You don't even listen if you don't have an example. That's fine. You gave us a lot.

[A]

But no, I. I want to think of something else.

[B]

I like to write down the three things that you're really good at. That's a great. A great part of it. Punch the word that you want people to remember. Good. I think there's a lot of good.

[A]

Acts pull in things that you want.

[B]

Is there another one?

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure there is.

[B]

Do you want some magic mind here? Why don't you, like, shake this up? By the way, we didn't even do this. We normally do this in the beginning of the podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So these help you with your focus and They're a healthy shot. They have ashwagandha and all these amazing things.

[A]

I should have done this an hour ago.

[B]

You should have. You would have been really on.

[A]

I would have really on. God, I would have broken your eye.

[B]

You would have been basically through the roof. But maybe this will help you get that example. You don't drink. I can imagine not. I can imagine you would. This is good. You got to do it in one shot. By the way, I've had like four of these already. I shouldn't even have anymore. Is it good? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's really good.

[B]

People love it. I think all my guests love it. Can you think of one more example? Now it works. Yeah.

[A]

Reframe a question. Like, tell me a question again of like, what is just a.

[B]

Like another question?

[A]

Yeah, just like a. Like, reframe it in a way that I can just.

[B]

Okay. So I think someone who feels this is actually a question I do have. And then this could be our. Yeah.

[A]

Like, I work really well from a problem.

[B]

Okay. Like, I think a lot of people can actually be like, I'll. I'll use myself. Okay. You know, I'm an. I think I'm. I'm like an outgoing person sometimes. I'm an outgoing person. I'm extroverted. And I'm not shy. Like, I'll ask anybody anything all the time, but put me on a stage, I get really scared. Like. Like, I guess I. I can perform on stage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's like, I'm like, I am not somebody who naturally feels super comfortable talking to a. Like, a huge group of people. I find, like, so people, like. And there are people out there who are the opposite. Right. Usually opposite. Like, they're usually very shy, but they go on stage and they shine. Right. Is there anything that. And it's not because of a confidence. Not because I can write down the three things that I'm confident about. And I can know all these things that you said.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like animation, changing the intonation of my voice, all those things and still go up there. Is there anything else that I can take along with me for my voice to really kind of. Kind of show my authoritatorship, my confidence, my be funny. I mean, to make myself a really good performer. I'm just trying to give you something.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Because it has nothing to do with lack of self esteem or lack of confidence. It's just like. It's like a jittery thing.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And even if I have all those tools, I can still go up there and get nervous. And scared and then not do all the things that I was told to do or practice to do.

[A]

So it's so important, before you go on, whether you're singing or speaking or doing any kind of talking in front of somebody, to center yourself to breathe and make sure your exhale is longer than your inhale. And I would do that. Have you heard of square breathing?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So I would do 1, 2, 3, 4, hold, 2, 3, 4. Out, 2, 3, 4, Hold, 2, 3, 4. So you keep doing that till you really center yourself. And once you feel I am centered, you know that everybody out there wants you to succeed. They want to hear you. You want to talk to them. You're not talking at them, you're talking to them. So in your mind, think of the person you're speaking to. Not a group of people, not a thousand people, not 20 people, but who is it? And you're having a conversation with them. A lot of people are good one on one, but when it gets to be more people, they're like, I don't know how to do it. It's because you're not picturing a human and a soul and a connection. You're picturing a wall of people. But if you can connect with one. And again, it doesn't have to be looking at one, but you can say, I'm just connecting with you. I'm giving me. And I wanna. I wanna give you, too. I just wanna connect. Think of that.

[B]

And the square breathing.

[A]

And the square breathing to really start it off, to take those nerves down and don't jump into it. Take your time. This is the thing that everybody's like, I gotta go fast because I'm on here. And it's like, really nervous to be.

[B]

Like, that's exactly it. Taking your time. That is what it is. You get.

[A]

So we gotta go. We gotta go fast. Like, no. Hi, everybody.

[B]

That's where the breathing comes in.

[A]

Hi, I'm Amy. Thanks so much for being here today. I'm going to be talking about voice, and so if I just took that one moment to connect, that connection is huge. They're going to feel it. You're going to feel it. You're going to feel like you're talking to a person, not just a bunch of people.

[B]

I like that. Thank you, Amy.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Now you can go to New York. Get my point exactly. I appreciate. This was very, very fun and informative. And like I said, I've never done a podcast on voice before, so this is really interesting. And I. I hope somebody, or more than just One person. But take something they. They can. They can integrate it into their lives. Because I think you gave us a lot of great little action items.

[A]

Amazing. I'm so happy to. I feel like I had a thousand things I wanted to talk about, and then you got. And then I just got sidetracked of something else.

[B]

Well, guess what? The good news is you can always come back.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

With that hair. I mean. By the way, you wanted to say something about your hair, about imaging.

[A]

Oh. You know, you were asking about, like, routines.

[B]

I know. I didn't ask you.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

I find it.

[A]

I'll still talk about it because I can't shut up. I. I find it really important every day to look good. And I know, like, people are like, yeah, but that's so shallow. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm not doing it for other people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Do it for me. Because if I know I look good, I know my hair is done. I know my makeup son. I like my outfit. I like how I'm presenting.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Then I feel confident and my self esteem is higher.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel better about myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I feel better about myself, I can talk, I can have the best time. But if I go out and, like, my hair looks like shit. I'm tired. I didn't put on a lip today. And I like my outfit is. What am I wearing?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not going to feel confident. I'm. You're going to look at me and.

[B]

Be like, right, right, right.

[A]

She's not confident. Because I don't feel confident.

[B]

100. I mean, I live in gym clothes, so I'm like the worst person to say that too.

[A]

But if you feel confident in that and you like, I do.

[B]

Because you know why I feel confident that? Because, like, I'm usually wearing my gym clothes because I came from the gym.

[A]

And you got a banging bot and you're happy to show that off too. Well, so like.

[B]

Or I was just gonna add, also, I rather. I think to myself, at least I did something that was for myself that, like, bettered myself, that made my brain more. More focused. And like, I sweat when you sweat. I feel better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I rather look like. Because I really feel like I feel better knowing that I look like. Because I did something for myself beforehand.

[A]

So you're working out. Is my getting.

[B]

Getting ready.

[A]

Getting ready.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's also like a meditative moment when I'm sitting and putting on makeup or doing my hair. It's a moment that I'm. I'm not on my phone. Yeah. I'm not doing a thousand things.

[B]

You gotta concentrate, concentrating.

[A]

And I'm doing one thing. Never in my life do I do one thing at a time.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So it's my moment that I'm like, this is for me. I'm taking these 20 minutes, and I'm gonna put on my mascara for a painfully long time, and I'm just gonna do it. And it's meditative.

[B]

It is. It is. Writing is my meditation. Mascara is yours.

[A]

Everybody's got their own.

[B]

Everybody has their own God. Thank you, Amy, for being on here. Guys, check out Amy. Your. What's your Instagram? Or.

[A]

It's Amy Chapman. It's my Instagram website. Voice Lab la.

[B]

If you have a. If you want a voice lesson, don't call her. She's too busy for you.

[A]

But anyway, talk somewhere.

[B]

Exactly. Thank you.

[A]

Great. Thank you.

[B]

Bye.