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Habits and Hustle
Episode 455: Dr. Vishal Patel: Why Your Feet Control Your Longevity and Most Wellness Tech Is Wrong
00:39:46
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- [00:01]
Tony Robbins
Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
- [00:07]
Jennifer
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- [00:48]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Also use it for.
- [00:49]
Jennifer
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- [01:00]
Dr. Vishal Patel
It's.
- [01:00]
Jennifer
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- [01:31]
Dr. Vishal Patel
So I'm joined today by Dr. Vishal Patel, who is the chief science and innovative officer at a place called. It's the most beautiful place I've ever been. Sensei. Sensei is basically, I want you to kind of walk us through it because I had a beautiful experience. It is a wellness facility that is beyond anything I've ever been to because of the care and the quality and just overall the programming. And let's talk about how would you describe what it is and then let's get into your background and what your involvement is.
- [02:05]
Tony Robbins
Oh, sure, yeah. To describe what it is. It's a wellness retreat. But even that doesn't do justice to the place and the experience. It was a vision that our co founders, Larry Ellison and David Agus had. It was the passing of a close friend, Steve Jobs, that really made them realize that the world needs spaces where even the best and brightest can feel safe and get trusted, vetted advice about their health and wellness. And I think that's probably what you experienced at Lanai, that it feels like a place where you can let your guard down, where you can, you, you can, you can feel safe, you can have space to wander and you have experts which are really hidden gems that a lot of people don't expect. But we have brilliant, brilliant minds and hearts on Lanai that can guide our guests to greater, well Being it's. It's something special.
- [02:58]
Dr. Vishal Patel
It is something special. So yeah, so like I went to the one like on. In Lanai in Hawaii and there's. How many locations do you guys have? 3 now.
- [03:07]
Tony Robbins
We are now 3 as of last week. Yeah. We just opened our first international location in Cabo with the Ritz Carlton Reserve in Mexico.
- [03:16]
Dr. Vishal Patel
So. Yeah. Because the one I went to was with the Four Seasons. And like, let me just kind of like explain and break it down a bit because I've. And given what I do for my background, for my job, whatever, I've been to like a plethora of different wellness facilities. I've tried every program retreat. Number one, the. What I found to be very unique. It is very personalized. That's the first thing I would say. And the attention to detail with what you can have. I think I was, I think I did the rest of relaxation program and Jim, I think his name was Jim, who really kind of like really did a lot of like intake on like my background, what I'm going through in life. And then the program is very personalized for my. For me. You also have another program that I didn't do that's very much about data and metrics.
- [04:04]
Tony Robbins
Yeah, we call it the Optimal wellbeing program.
- [04:07]
Dr. Vishal Patel
The Optimal Wellbeing program. What I found though, at the one I was at, the one thing I found was interesting was you know, a lot of these programs, the food is very precise. Like the, you know, the caloric intake you're taking, they really kind of try to like, they try to really kind of I guess kind of like be involved in like your overall like what you're taking in nutrition wise while you're there.
- [04:31]
Tony Robbins
Yeah. We often describe it as like a prescription or a boot camp or regimen. I know I'm really familiar with, you know, maybe like the ranch in Malibu and places like that where it's, it can feel a little. Yeah. Very restrictive. Yes, that's right. Yeah.
- [04:49]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Property in there. Right.
- [04:49]
Tony Robbins
Like. That's right.
- [04:51]
Dr. Vishal Patel
There was very little. Yeah. Like I, I found that to be like kind of like the antithesis of what a wellness program was about. Can you explain why you guys are not.
- [05:00]
Tony Robbins
Oh, absolutely.
- [05:01]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Yeah. Because I found that to be an interesting takeaway.
- [05:04]
Tony Robbins
Yeah. And in a nutshell, it's because the scientific evidence doesn't support rules for living life. So when we looked at the scientific literature, my, my team and our co founders for what results in say healthy eating, just as one example, you know, we focus on movement, rest, but just taking food and nourishment. But when you take a rules based approach to eating, where there's a certain list of foods you can eat and then a very long list of foods you can't eat, in the psychology literature, what happens inevitably with every cohort, every population, is that as soon as you're given that, that naughty list of foods, your mind very naturally starts wanting to eat those things. So then you start feeling these cravings and this desire that has an emotional impact. You start feeling guilty for wanting those things, you start punishing yourself for avoiding those things. And then in a few weeks to months, you fall off the wagon. So with every diet, Paleo, keto, anything that's considered a diet where you're following a set of rules, you end up having this yo yo behavior where people end up latching onto a diet thinking it's going to be the end all, be all, they fall off and then they revert back to their, their old ways and old habits and then they find the next fad diet and then they latch onto that. And so since they didn't want to perpetuate that, not only is it an unsustainable approach to living, it's not good for you. You end up with a slightly disordered relationship with food where you use food as punishment and reward. It's, it's not healthy for us in the long run. And so that's why it's open ended. It's kind of more of like a choose your own adventure rather than a boot camp where we're going to tell you what to do. And I know what you mean. We get a lot of guests that show up and say, okay, so tell me what to eat, tell me when to wake up, tell me what to, when to sleep, where are my supplements, just tell me what to do. But longevity and wellness don't work like that. It's about the choices you make and learning to teach yourself to be more intentional with those choices. And so that's why sensei was designed in that way.
- [07:07]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Yeah. Like I found a lot of things that I was questioning. There was scientific backing of why it is the way it is. Right. The food thing really threw me for a loop because to me, a big piece of wellness and health is all it is about. The, the, the nourishing part. Right. That the food also. I love to eat, but I'm with you.
- [07:29]
Tony Robbins
Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big proponent of almost food as medicine. I studied ayurvedic medicine in India, which is, you know, that's kind of a central tenet of that system of thought. But on the flip side, you know, telling someone what to eat removes the joy out of food, removes the sensory appreciation from food. And what we recognize is that, no, the sensory aspect of eating is just as important as the macronutrients on your plate. It has to look pretty, it has to be presented beautifully. There's a certain pace to eating that needs to be synchronized with your gastronomy. So you actually are salivating before you eat. And so we take all that into consideration to introduce a more intentional approach to eating.
- [08:11]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Yeah, I mean, can you talk about more of the science behind that? Because the overall in the program, just to kind of give some differentiation for people why it is different? Because like you said. Well, like besides the fact that they're in these beautiful places and the programming is spectacular from. Of course you have the sound baths, you have the yoga, you have all the meditation, even the teacher. I had this other teacher there, which, which again kind of like threw me for a loop because I thought I had like this one on one with him to do like that. I thought like a, like a personal training session. Right. But it was a very unique one because it wasn't what I was expecting. I ended up taking off my shoes. He's looking at my feet and, and he gave me literally like a, like, like a four year degree and how my feet are the. Is basically where all the power comes in and all my strength comes in. If my feet are not strong, then basically my whole body will fall apart. Like my hips, my knees, my joints.
- [09:11]
Tony Robbins
Yeah, so that sounds like Eduardo.
- [09:13]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Eduardo. But I'll tell you something, he is not wrong because my feet are weak. They're flat. They are. Not to give people too much information, but like my arches are falling, all the things because I work out so hard. Yeah, but your body breaks down so much quicker if your feet are not properly. If they're not properly worked out, literally. And for longevity. That's like, that's like such. That's so terrible. Right. Because how you stay younger longer is having these strong feet, which is one of these things where I think that people are amiss. They don't realize that. They think. They don't. They just go, go, go. And then when their hip falls or their. These are. They don't go to the source of the problem, which is always the feat.
- [09:56]
Tony Robbins
That's exactly right. So that's. I think you hit on the science actually. And that's what we've tried to incorporate. And Eduardo does it with such warmth. He's really disarming. But he has a way of like cutting right to the heart of the problem. Yeah, but yeah, what we notice, you know, with these, with our retreats, they're built very intentionally for high performers. And as a high performer, you know, and your audience probably knows that you're so focused on, on a goal, you know, performing, whether it's in the gym, on the field, on a sport, whatever your area, arena of performances result, your focus on the result. And you learn over time to be more resilient, more tolerant of the pain of the, you know, the aches and, and complaints and whether that's in the workplace or in the gym. Right. But what our retreats do is create some space in your mind so you can start noticing that all those little things that you might have overlooked in your pursuit of that goal. So maybe it was your footwear, maybe you were wearing shoes that were a little too tight, maybe you didn't really think about your footfall while running and that might be why you're having the knee pain. Maybe there is a lot of tension in your jaw that stems from your ergonomics in your workplace. But all of these small details are really almost imperceptible in our day to day life because we build our environments in pursuit of a vision, in pursuit of a goal, because we're trying to achieve something. But to be able to do that for the long haul, like you said, longevity for a longer, healthier life, you do need occasional resets or retreats where you can take a more mindful approach at things like your footwear or the type of pillow that you sleep on. Maybe the pillow is contributing to your neck pain. There's all of these subtle factors in our environment and our habits, but it really does take stepping away from it all to get that perspective.
- [11:47]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Totally. Can you tell us a little bit about your background, how you got involved? Because you said you studied aerobatic medicine, you're obviously a physician. Can you just explain to us what your expertise is and the relationship?
- [12:02]
Tony Robbins
Yeah, happy to. I trained as a physician, I got my PhD in genetics, both from Case Western Reserve in Ohio, oddly enough. And I know we were having some IT challenges at the beginning of the call, so maybe you'll find this amusing, but the reason I got into SENSEI was because of technology and data of all things. My background, my research was in the same field of research as Dr. Agus, our co founder, which is proteomics and genomics. And it was the data and the intention was to think about human beings on the Inside as well as on the outside as complex systems that maybe we don't understand how everything works, but maybe if we measure more of it, we can start painting a more complete picture of how human beings work. And that was really what motivated me. And when I came to Sensei, it was the same vision that our guests, as high performers, we are all hell bent on figuring out how this world works and making it better in some form or fashion. And we're really analytical. We like to measure everything around us so that we can perform better, faster, harder. And the thought was, well, why don't we take that language of data that really speaks to us and to our guests and use it as a, almost like a mirror to turn that lens inward. Say, why don't we measure you? Why don't we shed some light on how you're doing? So a lot of some of the initial data that we were collecting, basic things like blood pressure and lipid panels that were just surprising that our guests hadn't had that measured in a while. We had a partnership with whoop, which was tremendous, because then we started collecting real life, real world data. You know, our guests in the wild and their home environments, and we get to see how they're doing and whether they're doing well or not so well. And then there's some real exciting innovations that Sensei has incubated. One that I'm passionate about is around thermography. And we're using thermal cameras that are used in, like, home construction and defense. But again, we're taking that lens and pointing it at the human being and saying, well, why don't we look at your thermal patterns and thermal signatures? Why don't we try to understand skin temperature as a biomarker and to tell us to try and figure out what does that tell us about what's happening inside of you? And it's really exciting. And so, again, I think for me being at Sensei, it feels like a culmination of my love of data and technology. But I also get to blend the east and the West. So I, I studied Ayurveda. I have a deep appreciation for traditions and culture and history. And that has a really important place, it always has and it always will, in how human beings understand their health and wellness. I'm, you know, here in Mexico now, there's an indigenous system of medicine here in Mexico. There are traditional ways that people have thought about health and food and diet, and you have to take those into consideration when you're trying to shift perceptions and minds. When you're Trying to introduce healthier eating patterns when you're trying to incorporate more physical activity, you do have to be considerate of how people grew up and where they came from. And so I, I enjoy bringing that understanding of Eastern traditions and culture, as well as biomedicine into my work at Sensei. And again, before we started, I mentioned we, you know, we don't diagnose and treat at our. At our retreats. And so sometimes people wonder is like, yeah, well, why do you need a doctor at the helm? It's actually because we say no to a lot of things. I mean, there's just a lot of clinical things in the wellness world that don't have evidence. And it's important that we steer people clear of magic bullets and gimmicks that don't work, that aren't proven, that may have some toxicity, that may have side effects, that may not be beneficial for you in the long run. And so that's how I incorporate my medical background here.
- [15:53]
Dr. Vishal Patel
So could you talk about that a little bit, like, in terms of a lot of the things that don't have any research or background that you think are kind of myths or. Because the wellness business has become. Have you heard this? I've heard this. I just heard this yesterday. That the wellness business has actually become more profitable than big Pharma now, supplement company, all of this. And with social media as well, there's a lot of information misinformation, and people glom onto it because they. They're looking for this magic bullet. They want to believe if I take this, that I'm going to get that result. And I'm very like, I'm a person that I try to uncover this and talk about it as much as possible, because we can all fall prey to this. I do all the time. If I see something that's captivating, I'm like, oh, I'll buy it. And then I have to stop myself and realize, oh, maybe that's not the best thing. Can you talk about some of the things that you've seen that you guys have steered away from that? Why you said it's important to have a medical doctor around.
- [16:56]
Tony Robbins
There's a lot. Yeah. What's your favorite topic or disease or supplement at the moment?
- [17:03]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Whatever you think is the most harming that people should be aware of or things that just are just silly, that don't work, that you've kind of encountered?
- [17:12]
Tony Robbins
Well, you know, I mean, our partners are our hotels. Four Seasons in the Ritz Carlton. I think the one that I get the biggest Kick out of are the ivy drips at the pool. Yes, they look sexy and it. And I think there's a fascination with pumping your body full of stuff, but there's no evidence that it works. You know, my team of scientists and researchers, we've pored over the literature trying to find some, some kernel of truth for why that might make someone feel better. And our best, most informed conclusion is it's because you're well hydrated afterwards, you got pumped full of a liter of water and of course you're going to feel better. But there's no evidence that being injected with B12 is necessary or beneficial for most people. So that's one. Another one where I'm really skeptical are peptide injections. And I don't know if you've turned around your cosmetics over the past couple years, but most cosmetics nowadays have proprietary peptides. Peptides are short chain amino acids, so building blocks of any protein. And on one hand they're being studied as new type of drug as a vehicle for delivering drugs because they're so powerful and so potent. And on the other hand, labs are whipping this stuff up. Your cosmetic companies are whipping this stuff up in the lab. I can't find a toxicology report online. And then they put this and they bottle up in a cream and you can put it on your face and yes, you have outcomes, it will reduce your wrinkles, but at what cost? And that's what concerns me is that in the pursuit of call it anti aging or looking younger, living longer, we're willing to make sacrifices where we don't know the full cost of it. And again, my background was in proteomics. I studied proteins, peptides and amino acids and all the things that they do in the human body and they're so powerful. So the way that a peptide works is it triggers so many cellular pathways that we scientists don't even understand what cellular pathways and signaling pathways have been triggered by the peptide. It's a little bit of magic at the moment and not, not entirely scientific.
- [19:21]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Do you know what I find interesting? Peptides is a big fad right now.
- [19:24]
Tony Robbins
Right?
- [19:24]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Like things kind of, that's a big one. And so what I find very interesting is a lot of the doctors that I speak to offline who are not involved in social media, they don't even, they're not on there. They don't care, you know, have agree with you. They think that the IVs, you just basically pee out whatever you're getting because you're getting such an abundant amount. And so it's basically just a money grab, you know, like the three, $400 and you're going to, it's completely not worth it. And the peptides, the problem with the peptides, and that's why they've been disconnected, they're not, there's like laws against a lot of them. People think it's because the farmers trying to control it, but people. And maybe that's true. I'm not saying it is or not, but you know, a concern is you. There is not enough back research to know what the outcomes are because they haven't been around long enough.
- [20:14]
Tony Robbins
No. And plus many of them are proprietary. So in, in Sensei's work, as we look at skin care and try to find evidence based skincare products for our customers, there's been so many brands we've said no to because they concocted this chemical in their lab. There's no published peer reviewed toxicology report that we can stand behind that we can believe in. And yeah, and I think that's, that's unfortunate. But on the other hand, I feel like the consumer, maybe because of podcasts like this, I think consumers are becoming more informed and discerning. They're looking for transparency in ingredients and manufacturing and quality. And I feel like that's part of Sensei's mission, is to keep educating and informing our listeners so that they can make more informed choices.
- [21:00]
Dr. Vishal Patel
One thing I found very interesting when I was there, I had this back and forth with one of your employees because I went to use the sauna, the, the, you know, infrared sauna. And it was cold in there. I'm telling you, it was cold in there. Michelle. Okay, I'm, it was literally, I'm like, can we put it on? And they're like, oh, is this, it's the highest that we can put it. And I'm like, the highest. I'm like, literally, I need to go get a towel and wrap it around me. It was cool. She's like, What? She said 1:40 was the highest. I was like, first of all, I had the same sauna. I have the same sauna at home. And my problem with the sauna that I have is that it's too cold. It goes up to 170 and it takes a long time to go up to 170 and it still doesn't get me hot enough. And she's like, oh. All the research proves that your body is from the inside out, core temperature, all these things and you don't have to sweat. Like, I push back on that a little bit. I push back on that one.
- [21:52]
Tony Robbins
Thank you. I think that may be a bug, might be an error.
- [21:57]
Dr. Vishal Patel
I don't think she was very adamant. And then the next time someone else said also that they, they could only put it up to a certain temperature because.
- [22:06]
Tony Robbins
No. So if you, you have one. So, you know, and, and I appreciate you bringing that up to me and.
- [22:12]
Dr. Vishal Patel
It'S silly, but not really. Right. Because it's important.
- [22:15]
Tony Robbins
No, it's important to understand that. Yeah. And it's. So, you know, one point where you're correct. It, it doesn't. Saunas don't raise your core body temperature. Actually, our core body temperature doesn't change unless you have an infection or there's something really dire happening. But when you take a cold plunge or you're in a sauna, it's, it is peripheral temperature, it's skin temperature that's being modulated. So I think that's with infrared radiation. It is true that infrared radiation from an infrared sauna does penetrate below the skin, but it is inconclusive if that's why it's beneficial for your health or more or less beneficial than traditional sauna from, again, from the science and evidence, I think it's just a different mechanism of heat and heat and radiant heat production. A little less air pollution in an infrared sauna versus a traditional charcoal sauna. But you're absolutely right. It needs to get you hot and you need to be sweating and you need to do it for 15 minutes so that your heart rate is pounding. And I like to be a little dizzy by the time I step out of a sauna.
- [23:13]
Dr. Vishal Patel
That's what I say. That's why right now the push is actually to get away from the, the ones, the red light infrared ones and to get the ones that are wood burning a. They go way hotter. They go to like 220. Some of them. You can die in one of those. But that's, but most of the research I've seen is really based around the science behind the wood burning ones from Finland.
- [23:35]
Tony Robbins
They're not the ones exactly.
- [23:36]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Right, right. So the ones with the, the, the red infrared, like there is a lot of people are like, this is not getting me hot enough. I got to sit in here for 45 minutes to even like get a beat.
- [23:46]
Tony Robbins
It's not as efficient.
- [23:46]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Yeah, not as efficient. Right. I had to just ask about that because I, I swear that I was like, I'm not wrong on this one.
- [23:53]
Tony Robbins
You're not wrong on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for, for pointing that out, actually. And it's important.
- [23:58]
Dr. Vishal Patel
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- [25:34]
Tony Robbins
Gosh, yeah, I mean it's fascinating. So I'll give you just like some fresh hot takes, I guess because I'm here in Cabo, like, you know, we just opened our operation. I'm literally testing some of the equipment on myself yesterday. So there's, there's some fascinating. Maybe we can talk about thermography.
- [25:51]
Dr. Vishal Patel
I was going to, I wrote that down because I am fascinated by thermography. You said that that's something that you guys are doing. What is it? Can you explain what it is?
- [26:00]
Tony Robbins
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, it's fascinating, but it's a. I don't know if you've ever seen a thermal image or a heat map, but a thermal camera has a special type of infrared sensor and so it detects infrared radiation. You know, they use it in, gosh, I mean in home construction so they can look behind like through the wall in a way and identify leaks or you know, gaps in insulation. But when you point an infrared sensor at the human body, what you're looking at in that heat map of the human body is heat dissipation from the skin, which is an indicator of differences in circulation. So you see hot spots, which could mean vasodilation, there's more blood in those areas and you see cold spots. What's fascinating is that we're beginning to correlate those hot Spots and cold spots to muscular imbalances and asymmetries. So the muscles that you overuse and, you know, overused muscles can be. Because either you're working out too hard, you're. Or you're holding a lot of stress or tension in a certain muscle, you know. So, for instance. I know it's a good example. So hamstrings and runners are a good example of an underused muscle. They tend to be kind of chronically shortened. Right. Even in most of us as we're sitting all day. So we have kind of that they call that superior cross body position where our pectoralis and our chest muscles are tightened and constricted, our backs are extended. But when we start looking at the thermography data, we can start seeing that. And I saw it in myself. My sternocleidomastoid on my right side was flaming red, hotter than on my left side. Because there's no normative data on thermography. There's not age and gender databases of thermal data. We have to use internal control. We compare our left and right sides to figure out what's happening on the right side of your skin versus your left side. So my right sternocleidomastoid was incredibly tight, which was. It was incredibly hot. So it indicated either there was some inflammation or a lot of tension that is holding here. Then the exercise physiologist guide here, Brenda, she took me through a functional movement screen. And in the functional movement screen, as I was trying to touch my hands behind my back, I know she noticed that there was asymmetries in my ability to reach behind my back. And then we noticed some hot spots in my deltoids. And so through that kind of working through the data, what we identified is that there are some opportunities, let's call them opportunities, in the way that I'm exercising in the gym. And again, this is one of those things where it's like, okay, I know a lot. I think I know how to exercise. And yet maybe I'm overdoing it. Maybe there isn't enough variety in my routine because I'm developing tension in muscles that you don't want tension. And, you know, tension in your sternocleidomastoid is gonna extend up into my jaw. Like, in a week, I'll probably get cracking in my jaw from all that tension. And I'm really happy I caught it early. But now I need to spend a little bit more time with a coach to figure out how do I introduce some more variety and more balance into my workout routine. And Maybe change the ergonomics of my desk setup at home so I'm not holding so much tension there.
- [29:15]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Well, I think it's always good to have someone who points things out like that because even, like, listen, Tiger woods had a coach, right? Michael Jordan had a coach like you. We tend to do what we are good at, right. I mean, I'm dog. I'm like, very. I dominate on the things I'm good at and the things I'm not so good at, I just don't do them right.
- [29:33]
Tony Robbins
Then that's human nature. We just avoid them. That's exactly right.
- [29:38]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Right. Like, you know, I like to do squats, so I'll do squats, but I hate to do, you know, planks. So I'm not going to do so. I mean, right. Like, people naturally are going to do what they're. What they're good at, what they like. And that's how we get really bad imbalances. Right. And so for that reason, I think it's really important. But you know what I wanted to ask you again? I want to push back a little bit because of something else. Data. And I do this with myself, too, because I've done all of it right. I've done the whoops. I've done the aura rings. If you look at my office or my house, it looks like a Costco. All the boxes all the way up, everything you can possibly imagine. Every gadget and nook and crate cranny. And what I noticed was the more I was basically tracking, the more stressed I got. And I think if you were a data person, you can look at the data and notice that, like, people become obsessed over their numbers. Like, you know, you're tracking your sleep and then you're going to sleep terribly because you're constantly looking and seeing. Did you sleep okay versus just sleeping, Right?
- [30:44]
Tony Robbins
That's right.
- [30:45]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Do you believe that there is a point where too much knowledge or too much, you know, information getting becomes actually a detriment versus a positive?
- [30:55]
Tony Robbins
Absolutely. I'm like you. So I wore the whoop for a year, took it off, lived without it for. Without anything for a while, then tried the aura for a while, took that off. Now I've got an Apple watch, but I'm not using it for health tracking. Yeah, yeah. I just use it. You know, I do look at my heart rate when I'm in the gym to make sure I'm hitting certain zones, but that's about it. I think data and wearables feels like a. What's the word? Like training Wheels in a way to, to notice parts of your lifestyle and behavior that you may not have noticed before. But the reason that it becomes, we fixate it, fixate on it when we start wearing it, I think is because of how partly it's a little bit of the, maybe the shock and the awe. Like you don't realize that you're sleeping poorly until you start measuring it. Or you don't realize that you, maybe you're not pushing yourself as hard in your runs until you start measuring your heart rate and you realize, oh, you have some room to go. That's, that's what it was like for me. But, but then that initial moment of awareness, it does turn into a fixation. And again from the psychology of well being, we know that that fix, that external locus of control isn't good for you in the long run. That ultimately needs to be an internal locus of control that you need to want to go to sleep ear on time and wake up early because you want to, not because you're feeling guilty of not hitting a certain recovery score or strain score on your device. But the journey starts with that. It starts with kind of that emotional kind of gamification, like learning about the data, gamifying it for yourself. But what we notice and what the wearable companies have told us is eventually everyone takes it off and everyone switches because each wearable is right for a person at a certain point in their life and then they learn how to live life, you know, informed by the data and then they take it off and then maybe they live without it and they move to the next thing and, and then life changes. And so sometimes the wearables come back, sometimes the data comes back and probably when you least expect it, yeah, I.
- [32:55]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Think that you can become obsessed with it, but, and I do believe it's good for some, some type of accountability at the beginning and knowledge base, like I think, but like, like everything, right? Like eventually you're going to take, you know, kind of just use your own gut because it becomes, it actually becomes a more of a, in my opinion, more of a detriment. Unless you're somebody who is like a professional athlete and an Olympian that has to meet certain marks for you, hit certain things to, you know, win the gold. You know, like you have, you got to track things for these. But for the everyday, I think it's become, it's getting out of hand. Like, you know, now everyone's walking around with a glucose monitor, like I was.
- [33:36]
Tony Robbins
About to mention, right?
- [33:38]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Like, are you a diabetic? Like this is becoming an absurd thing. Like most people should not be wearing one.
- [33:45]
Tony Robbins
That's right. And I mean the, the CGMs, they have like a, a half life. You know, you only keep them on for a week or two and then you get to switch it out. And so like naturally, after a couple weeks, if you're switching it out, maybe you get tired of it and just keep it off. But what I've observed is like, yeah, even with CGMs, there's that moment initially where you're suddenly measuring or suddenly, you know, the, the glycemic index is brought to life because you're noticing the spike in your blood sugar after eating a apple or a cookie or whatever it is. And so I think that's, I almost feel like that's enough like that, that emotional moment of like shock and awe when you see your glucose. Like that's enough to open your eyes and you start shifting your behavior and then eventually I don't think you need the data for very long.
- [34:31]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Yeah. One other question I have for you is what is, have you seen, what's your take on plasma? People who are taking plasma, it's like, kind of like it's an IV of course, to get the plasma and then it takes out all the toxins, heavy metals out of your body. A lot of my friends are doing it and they're walking away with like these like 10 pound bags of their own plasma. That's. Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [34:55]
Tony Robbins
I know what you're talking about. So it's plasmapheresis. Right. So they, they take your plasma, they filter it all out and then put it back inside of you, or they give it to you so you can.
- [35:05]
Dr. Vishal Patel
In the fridge.
- [35:07]
Tony Robbins
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Dr. Vishal Patel
What are you going to do with it?
- [35:09]
Tony Robbins
Yeah, I think so. This is another interesting one where there's, you know, there's some science and there's some voodoo to plasmapheresis. So the science is that our plasma does become chock full of antibodies to all the things that we're exposed to. So I have a friend that works and is developing some technology based off of that principle that because of all of those antibodies floating around in your plasma, you know, we can filter out the ones we don't need. So potentially reducing autoimmune responses. Alternatively, you can introduce antibodies and things into the plasma that, that could be good for you. So there is some science and merit to that. I don't think that the technology and the intervention, however, is there yet for mass consumption. You know, like plasmapheresis in the medispa I don't trust that.
- [36:03]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Is it dangerous?
- [36:04]
Tony Robbins
You know, with every intravenous procedure there are some risks and side effects. I think what I'm more worried about is a quality control in the medispas and clinics that are running this procedure. I haven't, and again, I haven't personally looked at the equipment and the technology and the manufacturers and the protocols. But as a scientist and physician that would be my foremost concern is a quality control on this stuff that you're putting directly into my system. And again, so they're going to, they're saying they're filtering your plasma, but where's the qc? Like how, where is the guarantee that you've taken out what you're saying you're taking out and you're really putting in what you're saying you're putting in. So there's just, it's an unregulated protocol, kind of an unregulated industry. So that's what makes me concerned.
- [36:51]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Yeah, I understand that. I know you're going to catch a flight, so I'm going to let you go. Thank you Dr. Michelle, because this was very important. I appreciate your time and I apologize again for the snafu of technology prior. So I hope you forgive me for that.
- [37:08]
Tony Robbins
Of course I forgive you. Yeah, I am like as I said, I got my, you know, I have a love of data and technology and so I'm, I'm more, much more forgiving of it challenges because I'm, I live with many of them and I handle many of them. But now, Jennifer, this was a pleasure. It was great to chat with you. Always a pleasure to chat with a guest. I'm so glad that you had the good fortune of visiting Lanai and that you got to experience that for yourself.
- [37:30]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Oh, it was amazing and I recommend it to anybody and everybody because it was one of the, one of the nicest experiences in the wellness facility that I've been to. What you know, I was going to say are they all the same by the way, like the one Besides the fact that you partner with different hotels for whatever reason, is the programming the same everywhere or program.
- [37:52]
Tony Robbins
We try to keep that mostly the same, you know, so the evidence based principles being data driven, focusing on movement, nourishment and rest. But then as you probably noticed, each place has its own charm, its own energy, its own culture and that I think that, you know, add some variety to different locations. You'll have to come visit us in Mexico, I think. We've got a really special place and a really special team here.
- [38:15]
Dr. Vishal Patel
Oh, my God, I would love to go there. Love, love, love, love, love. Check out the. Well, check out Sensei, even go on their website and check it out all their different offerings. It is a really great experience if you're into health, wellness, longevity, and all the things health. So thank you again for being with me today.
- [38:35]
Tony Robbins
My pleasure, Jennifer.