Episode 459: Mind Pump Men: How to Spot a Bad Trainer and Why Most Fitness Trends Are Dangerous

Summary

Habits and Hustle: Episode 459 Summary
Title: Mind Pump Men: How to Spot a Bad Trainer and Why Most Fitness Trends Are Dangerous
Release Date: June 17, 2025
Hosts: Jen Cohen and the Mind Pump Team (Tony Robbins, Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer)

---

1. Introduction to the Episode

Jen Cohen welcomes listeners to Episode 459 of Habits and Hustle, where she hosts members of the Mind Pump team—Tony Robbins, Sal Di Stefano, and Adam Schafer. The primary focus of the episode is to explore the qualities that distinguish good trainers from bad ones and to discuss the dangers associated with prevailing fitness trends.

---

2. Identifying Good vs. Bad Trainers

Red Flags of Bad Trainers:

• Lack of Assessment ([04:01]): Tony emphasizes the importance of initial assessments. "If they don't do an assessment, if they just take you and train you... Not a good trainer."
• Overly Intense Workouts ([04:10]): Trainers who make clients unable to move the next day indicate poor training practices.
• Poor Attention to Form ([05:32]): Sal highlights that bad trainers are often distracted, possibly by their phones, instead of focusing on the client's technique.

Traits of Good Trainers:

• Attention to Detail ([05:32]): Sal describes good trainers as those who focus entirely on the client, "constantly observing as if everything else in the gym is just gone away."
• Professionalism ([05:47]): Jen points out, "Trainers on their phone are a number one red flag."
• Building Trust ([06:44]): Tony underscores the importance of creating a non-judgmental environment where clients feel comfortable sharing their struggles. "A good trainer will really coach you to develop a good relationship with fitness that sticks with you for the rest of your life."

---

3. Building Trust and Client Relations

• Balance Between Coaching and Friendship ([06:44]-[07:27]): While maintaining professionalism, trainers should foster a supportive relationship without becoming mere friends or therapists.
• Adaptability ([07:08]): Tony notes, "A good trainer understands this is a long game... trying to get you to lose 30 pounds in 60 days and then gain it back," emphasizing sustainable fitness relationships.
• Effective Communication ([09:32]): Sal introduces a pivotal trait—how trainers communicate nuanced answers. "If the first word is 'depends,' you know you've got a good trainer."

---

4. The Mind Pump Business Evolution

From Trainers to an Empire:

• Foundation of Trust and Authenticity ([21:38]-[26:05]): The Mind Pump team built their empire by consistently providing value through their podcast and training programs over two decades. Tony mentions, "What you hear us communicate and how we run the business... was based off of what we learned training clients."

Authenticity and Personal Values ([22:59]-[26:05]):

• Staying True to Core Values ([22:59]-[26:18]): Jen praises the team’s commitment to their values, stating, "You've stuck to what you believe in... The word 'no' has served you exceptionally well."

Hiring and Quality Control ([26:18]-[29:17]):

• Selective Hiring Process ([26:18]-[28:00]): Sal explains their meticulous approach to hiring trainers, ensuring alignment with their values and standards. "It was a very slow process... making sure we hire the right person."
• Investment in Quality ([28:43]-[29:17]): The team invested significant time and resources in developing trainers, prioritizing long-term quality over immediate profits.

---

5. Effective Training Methods

Foundational Exercises:

• The "Big Five" ([42:31]-[43:03]): Sal recommends focusing on five key exercises for maximum impact:
  • Overhead Press
  • Row
  • Bench Press
  • Squat
  • Deadlift

  Sal Di Stefano [42:31]: "Overhead press, row, bench press, squat, deadlift. Five. Yeah, do those."

Strength Training for Women:

• Debunking Myths ([36:26]-[43:08]): The team discusses common misconceptions women have about strength training, such as the fear of becoming bulky.

  Tony Robbins [37:11]: "Muscle is fat-burning machinery... Your body will start to shape."

• Optimal Training Techniques ([37:34]-[43:08]): Emphasizing proper form and compound movements to achieve lean and toned physiques without excessive bulk.

  Sal Di Stefano [38:42]: "5 by 5. So the big lift, big core list."

---

6. Critique of Fitness Trends

Group Classes vs. Personalized Training:

• Limitations of Trendy Classes ([56:32]-[58:48]): The team critiques popular group fitness classes like F45 and Orangetheory, highlighting their generic approach and lack of personalized adjustment.

  Sal Di Stefano [58:15]: "If you're showing up there in hopes that you're going to build a body that you want... it's a horrible approach."

• Weighted Vests ([60:08]-[67:23]): Strong opposition to the use of weighted vests for general fitness, citing increased injury risks without significant benefits.

  Tony Robbins [62:24]: "There's zero additional benefit. The only people that get value from training with a weighted vest are firefighters and military."

Faulty Fitness Fads:

• Protein Overemphasis ([69:14]-[73:16]): Criticism of the over-saturation of protein-infused products, urging a focus on whole foods instead.

  Jen [72:36]: "All that stuff is crap. I'd rather just eat the chocolate bar and just call it what it is."

---

7. Nutrition and Supplementation

The Protein Debate:

• Whole Foods vs. Processed Protein ([69:14]-[73:16]): Advocating for protein intake through natural sources over highly processed protein products that often contain excessive sugars and calories.

  Sal Di Stefano [70:29]: "Just eat whole foods. That's the beauty of it."

• Balanced Diet ([70:07]-[70:29]): Emphasizing the importance of a balanced diet that includes fiber and other micronutrients, countering the protein-centric narrative.

---

8. Final Insights

Sustainable Fitness Practices:

• Technique and Progress ([53:04]-[73:16]): The conversation concludes with an emphasis on proper technique, gradual strength progression, and personalized fitness strategies tailored to individual needs.

  Tony Robbins [67:23]: "Proper strength training is about technique and form... I want you training with perfect technique and practice the lifts."

Closing Remarks: Jen thanks the Mind Pump team for their insights and expresses interest in future collaborations, underscoring the value of their expertise in fostering effective and safe fitness practices.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Tony Robbins [04:10]: "If a trainer beats the crap out of you and you feel like you survived your workout, that's a red flag."
• Sal Di Stefano [09:32]: "A good trainer like that will always communicate the nuances of every question."
• Tony Robbins [37:11]: "Muscle is fat-burning machinery. It's hard to build muscle, so... your body will start to shape."
• Jen [58:14]: "A lot of these group classes... are just getting you to move."
• Sal Di Stefano [70:09]: "Just eat whole foods. That's the beauty of it."

---

This episode provides a comprehensive guide for individuals seeking effective personal training by highlighting essential traits of competent trainers and cautioning against popular but potentially harmful fitness fads. The Mind Pump team's expertise offers valuable insights into building sustainable fitness habits grounded in science and personalized care.

Transcript

[Tony Robbins]

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to habits and hustle. Crush it.

[Jen]

Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therassage. Their tri light panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places that in my body where honestly I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach, cramps, shoulder, ankle, red light therapy is my go to. Plus it also has amazing anti aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therassage Trilite everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable and it's really effective. Effective. Head over to therassage.com right now and use code be bold for 15% off. This code will work site wide again. Head over to therag t h e r a s a g dot com and use code be bold for 15% off any of their products. Okay. So what I love about this is I'm doing my podcast in the mind pump studio.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So it looks so profess. Like look how professional it looks now. Everything I have Doug, who's doing the sound and the everything and the on air. Can I use your studio all the time?

[Tony Robbins]

Whenever you want if you want.

[Jen]

Really?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, yeah, whenever you want.

[Jen]

You just saved me a whole lot of money. I was gonna do this on.

[Tony Robbins]

Oh, remember what happened last time? That's the first time. Sorry.

[Jen]

Exactly. It's never happened before.

[Sal Di Stefano]

User error.

[Tony Robbins]

User error. I promise, I swear to God. It's never happened.

[Jen]

Happened. It's never happened before. The first time.

[Tony Robbins]

There you go.

[Jen]

There you go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Doug.

[Tony Robbins]

Doug knows how to make up.

[Jen]

Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so. Yes. So now mind pump. The. The whole crew is on my podcast.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Is this the first time all of us have been on?

[Jen]

Yes, I was going to say I've had Adam on. I've had Sal a few times. I've never had Justin. I've never had Doug. But now I have all four of you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Do you remember whose episode did the best out of all of us?

[Jen]

No, I don't remember.

[Tony Robbins]

She does. She just plays a good.

[Jen]

Although. What are you coming back, Adam? No, joking. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. We get. We get a little bit. We get some great. Sal is Great for education and stats and the science. Your Adam's great for the human stories, the business angle. Justin, I'm not 100% sure yet. We're gonna find out today.

[Adam Schafer]

Listen to the show one of these days.

[Jen]

Yeah, listen, we're gonna. What did you say?

[Adam Schafer]

You know, you'll listen to our show.

[Jen]

One of these days and then I'll.

[Adam Schafer]

Figure it out, explain myself.

[Jen]

And Doug, you're not really going to be on, right? You're just in the background today. Yeah. You're just here kind of just doing your thing. Yeah. Basically this makes sure that my microphone doesn't become flaccid again. Basically, yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

[Tony Robbins]

He's the microphone fluffer.

[Jen]

Yes, he really is. He does a good job at it, too.

[Tony Robbins]

He loves it.

[Jen]

Don't get rid of him. Don't get rid of him. Okay, I'm going to start with one very basic question. What I think is really important because this is you guys are like the go to fitness guys on the planet, especially in the podcast space with training. I want to ask, how can you tell? Because I talk this all the time with my friends and I get super annoyed when I go to the gym and see this. How do you know if someone's a good trainer or a bad trainer? And what do people look for when they're trying to find a personal trainer?

[Adam Schafer]

Ooh, I like that.

[Tony Robbins]

Great question.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Those are great.

[Tony Robbins]

I can give you red flags that'll tell you they're not a good trainer. I could like a list a few of those for you. Like the.

[Jen]

The I you to list what. What the red flags are. But I also want you to list like what we people should look for.

[Tony Robbins]

Yes. Now, red flags are good because you can see red flags early on.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay. So the first one is when you meet with them to do an assessment. If they don't do an assessment, if they just take you and train you, which would be the akin to taking your car to the mechanic and him not or her not seeing and doing a diagnostic text first. So a trainer's like, oh, come with me. I'm just going to take you through a workout. Not a good trainer. The next one is that you can't move the next day. If a trainer beats the crap out of you and you feel like you survived your workout, that's also a red flag. And then the obvious ones are they're not watching your technique or your form. They're paying attention to other people or they're distracted while you're trying to Work out. Like, those are very, very easy red flags. And if you. Again, if you meet with a trainer first time and they're not doing an assessment, a proper assessment, go the other way.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. I think attention to detail is how you like the good ones. Right? A really good trainer, the entire time that a client is performing a movement, say, like a squat, is constantly moving around and assessing the client and giving them feedback. Oh, great job, Chen. Keep your. Keep your head up like that, Jen. Oh, nice. Oh, your left knee is caving in a little bit. Like, they are coaching every bit of the movement, and they're constantly observing you as if everything else in the gym is just gone away. It's just you and I training together, and I'm not distracted by the cute girl doing deadlifts over here or my buddy and then sports TV is coming over here.

[Jen]

Right. Or their phone, that would be a.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Huge red flag as a phone out.

[Jen]

That's like, by the way, that's my biggest pet peeve, because I want. I observe all these trainers at the gym, and 99 of them are on their phone. They're not paying attention to their client at all. Like, to me, that's like the number one red flag.

[Sal Di Stefano]

This is a generational thing, because when I manage clubs, my trainers had to keep all their phones in my desk.

[Adam Schafer]

It was Starbucks.

[Jen]

Such a good idea.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, that was part of. When you came in to work, you kept your phone. Stayed in my top drawer and that you just couldn't even have your phone on the floor. There was no reason for you to have your phone on the floor. You had your clipboard, things like that, for taking notes and things. There's no reason for you to have a cell phone on the floor.

[Tony Robbins]

A trainer should make you feel like you can tell them anything. Like, you're not going to be judged and like, they're authentic. You need to have a good relationship with your trainer. Not your best friend type of relationship, but a relationship where you feel like you could go to them and be like, man, I screwed up, or, man, my diet wasn't good, or, man, this is real tough for me, and not feel afraid that they're going to make you feel bad. They're going to make you feel like you're failing or whatever because you're trying to. A good trainer will really coach you to develop a good relationship with fitness that sticks with you for the rest of your life.

[Jen]

You got to be careful about that. I'm sorry, Adam. I'm going to say one thing, and then it's Your turn. That. I think that a lot of times. What happens, though, trainers become the therapist only. And so people start. Only they say they see their trainer not because they work out, but because they talk to them. And so half the time, you're not even working out or exercising. You're standing there just like, telling them what's going on in your life, and they're just, like, gabbing back and forth.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, there's. There's. So there's a. That's interesting. I'm glad you said that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

There's an extreme example of that.

[Tony Robbins]

For sure, there is, but there's a. There's a. There's a balance. And really experienced trainers know that sometimes just to get the person there, that they're going to do a couple exercises and they need to just vent a little bit. And that's okay because it's better than them not being there.

[Jen]

Right? Not showing up.

[Tony Robbins]

Yes. Because you can push and you can motivate, but what you don't want to do is blow them out and have them not want to come back. That's a big mistake. I made a lot as an early trainer where I thought I was like, no, no, you're going to do it my way. We're going to. And I thought I did a great job and ended up getting people to not want to come back. So it's better to have that beginner. And you often see this with people have a challenging relationship with health or fitness. Right. People who just. The gym is uncomfortable to them, they've never been able to be consistent. And so the number one priority of a good trainer is to help them develop this good relationship with the gym. And if that means you're going to come in and do two exercises and I'm going to hear and talk with you a little bit while in between, then that's okay. Because it's chess, it's not checkers. That's what a good trainer understands. It's like, this is a long game. I'm not trying to get you to lose 30 pounds in 60 days and then gain it back. I'm trying to get you to figure this out for the rest of your life. And with a lot of beginners, the first step is feeling like they belong in the gym.

[Sal Di Stefano]

There's an even bigger indicator that I know for sure we'd all agree on because we've said it before, and I love that we can do this, even on the podcast. So we've had many trainers come on the show over the course of 10 years, and one of the ways all of us know right away how good that trainer is is the way they communicate. When you ask them a question that's related to nutrition or exercise science or something, and the, the first word that comes out of their mouth is depends. If your trainer, when you ask them a direct question, should I eat this? Should I do this exercise? What, what's the best for? If you ask a direct question to your trainer and the first words out of their mouth is depends before they answer, you know you've got a good trainer because the tra. A good trainer like that will always communicate the nuances of every question. There is no for sure, this is always the best or this is the way to do things. It always depends. It always depends on the individual and depends on what you've done before and depends on other variables. And so a really good coach and trainer knows that, knows the science, knows the research, but also understands all the other variables and nuances. And so when you ask them a direct question about anything related to working out or nutrition, they respond with depends first.

[Jen]

Great point.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Another characteristic for, you know, good trainer to spot out like, especially if you've already started to work with them, is that do I want to approach them to come help me through some pain or help me through some challenge. Whereas, you know, typically you want to avoid the session, you want to cancel the session, you want to, you know, take a break, take a rest. Like all these are indications that, you know, that trainer is probably not a great fit, is pretty intensity driven, is, you know, coaching you through motivation purely is not educating you on the fact that, you know, there's adjustments that need to be made, there's flexibility that we need to apply here to help, you know, provide answers. And also too, to be a maven if he doesn't have the answers to go out source and point you in the direction of a doctor, physical therapist, somebody else to get involved. So it's not solely dependent on you.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. Like, if you're like, oh man, I, my, my knee hurts a little bit, I'm going to cancel my session versus oh, my knee hurts a little bit. I'm going to go see my trainer because they know how to help me, that's a really good trainer.

[Jen]

That's a good trainer. That's so interesting because I think the, the thought or the psychology for a lot of trainers is like, if I don't kill them, right, it's terrible then that I'm not a good trainer. And so they don't adapt. All they do is like, Heavy load when you're not, your body's not even able to heavy load. Like, oh no, you have to do a, you got to squat 200. Well, my body can't even squat 10, never mind 200. The other thing I wanted to say is what about having a trainer that's not in shape who looks like they're not in shape or who's fat? Is that an indica? Is that any indicator? Because psychologically also like depends. Yeah, it depends. Right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Depends on where they're coming from. Right, right. So there's a possibility. And I've had trainers like this that have worked for me that are out of shape still, but they've, they've lost 60 pounds of their hundred to go, you know, and it's changed their life and they're in the middle of this journey. That trainer sometimes is incredible because they can, they're going through it and a lot of clients will relate to that, that trainer. And if that trainer can share what it's been like for them, that can be a very proud. Now a trainer who's just been out of shape their whole life and isn't going anywhere or hasn't come from somewhere in from that was way less or way more unhealthy, then there's a different story. And then it looks like you can't follow your own advice or you are, I mean, you're a walking billboard for yourself. And so it really depends on where that trainer is currently in their own journey on whether I would make the conclusion that, oh, because they're overweight, they're not good.

[Jen]

Well, I think somewhere in between. Right. Because I think some, some people, they were really fit and then they let themselves potentially go. And so therefore they don't look the same as they used to look. But it could be because of hormones, it could be because of all sorts of an injury.

[Tony Robbins]

Well, you don't want, you don't want a trainer that doesn't practice what they preach.

[Jen]

Right.

[Tony Robbins]

That's, that's just, that's just a hypocrite. Okay, but you also, and this is just the truth, I mean I could ask like we've all managed trainers, we've all run teams of trainers. Some of the worst trainers were the ripped ones.

[Jen]

Yep, that's what's going to say.

[Tony Robbins]

So body obsessed trainers, they're going to spill that over onto you. So you know, you want one that practices what they preach. That's true. But, but looking at a trainer and saying that's the rippest fittest looking trainer that's the one I want to hire. It's a terrible metric. It's a terrible. Some of the, some of the best trainers I know look relatively fit but they're not like, like, you know, ripped. No, they're not super shredded. Now ripped individuals typically not.

[Jen]

No, I think so too. I think the people I've noticed who are like this, like who are ripped, super shredded are the worst. They're very self obsessed. They train themselves really well but they have no idea how to train somebody else because they don't. Number one, they don't care. Right? That's the first thing they're care. They're much more about themselves and than the other person. And like it could be because they're starving themselves or taking a bunch of drugs. They could be doing all sorts of things, you know. Like I think there's a misconception. I think a lot of times the best trainers I've ever seen are the ones who just look normal. They're not like completely out of shape, they're not completely ripped. They're like normal looking because they're more balanced. They've done, they've, they, they've done the extreme stuff but they're not there anymore in their life and they've had the background, they have the education, they have the research. Like I think it's really, it's really short sighted to only pick a trader based on what they look like because of all the other, like you said, the nuance and other psych, like other things that come with it.

[Tony Robbins]

You don't want someone with active, raging body dysmorphia to be your trainer.

[Jen]

Right?

[Tony Robbins]

Because what you're going to hear is communication through that and what it's going to sound like is hype. Motivation and discipline. That's what it sound like. You can do this. Oh, you don't have time. You got 24 hours. Everybody got the same 24 hours in every day. And they're going to hype you and they're going to hammer you and it feels good when you're motivated. It feels good when you first get started, but it's a absolute disaster when that motivation wears off. A good sign of a good trainer is do you want to see them? Do you like to show up to work out regardless of how you feel, whether you're motivated, unmotivated, tired, sad, happy, whatever. Is this a person that you want to go meet with to work out? And does the workout change depending on how you feel for the day? In other words, I'm tired, man. They're gonna make me feel so much better. I'm in pain. They're gonna help me take my pain away. I'm hyped. I'm gonna kick ass today. That's the kind of training you want. There were workouts that I had that involved me walking my client outside. Cause they showed up knowing they could trust me, knowing, like, oh, man, I was so stressed out. Work was absolutely terrible. I had terrible sleep last night. I'm so happy I'm here and I'm looking at them and they're drained. And I could see the stress on their face. I'm like, you know what? We're gonna go for a walk.

[Jen]

Do you think sometimes, though, it's important to change trainers? Because, you know, everybody gets complacent. Right. You see someone too long, it's like a therapist. It's like anything, right? Like, you just end up like. You end like, you just. People don't try as hard. They don't put the same effort and scrutiny in because it's like you've been doing it for so long. Like, you know, sometimes it's a good idea to mix things up a little bit. You get different perspective, you get different exercises. What do you think?

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. Well, let me tell you this. So you ask us, right? We train people for two decades. Okay. I would. I will say we've talked this about this on the podcast many times. We were. We weren't great until probably eight to 10 years into our careers. Okay. And I was selling training like crazy early days. But the back half of my career, I had clients that didn't. Most of my clients didn't leave. They'd hire me and they'd be with me for. I mean, I had lifers. I had clients with me for nine, 10 years. You know, 9:00am Monday mornings, same time, for nine years. They showed up. So when you're with a good coach or a good trainer, you probably never want to leave.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. That good coach or trainer can be a chameleon and give you what you need at whatever period of your life you're in. That's right. So, like, to the point you're making, like, you know, there's. Because there is value in changing things up and getting different perspectives. A really good trainer should be able to give you that. A really good trainer. Like, if, let's say you and I have been training for a year or two, and when we first met, you had these very specific goals, and maybe you and I have already achieved it or been focused on that for a long time, I might get you to shift your focus. Like, hey, you know what, Jen? We're always so focused on this. Like, what do you think if we go after this for a while? Like, when was the last time you try to increase your vertical or work on how much you, how fast you could? Like, I think that would be really good for you and I think it'd be healthy. And you've told me these other things about your life that you. That are important to you. I can see how that will help that. Like, why don't we put together a program where we focus on that for a while and you'll be like, yeah, that sounds great. Like that a good trainer will give you what you could potentially get in that novelty of a different trainer. If they're really good, if they're really good, they don't just train the same way to that same person forever. They know how to move that client in and out of different modalities and goals to give you that fresh feeling of what it's like to train with almost like a different person.

[Tony Robbins]

It's so funny that you asked us this question, Jen, because this is an area we're moving into, so we know. So when you, if you were to talking about the good trainer, the great trainers, like, we're trying to highlight here, the difference between a great trainer and an okay trainer is like the difference between the best player in the NBA and the best high school basketball player. Okay. That's how big of a gap there is between the great trainers and all the okay trainers. They're not even the same species. So, so different. They're so much more effective. They're able to get the average person who has a fail rate of 90% when it comes to fitness, to turning them into lifelong fitness enthusiasts. Okay. That is not easy. That's hard. That's what the great trainers are really good at doing. And what we're doing now. We actually have trainers that work for us now. We're in the now we've put together a course for coaches and trainers that teach them how to build their business. But the goal behind all of that was there is no ethos or standard or tao of trainers. There is no, like you said, you're asking us questions. Because here's what happens to a lot of your listeners. How do I know? How do I know who they are? Like, common experience. That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. People have.

[Jen]

The barrier to entry is so low. Right. Anybody can technically become a trainer. Right. You take a course.

[Tony Robbins]

Yep. You're certified.

[Jen]

Certified. And then you're Good to go. And that's the problem. And with social media, if you look good and you tout all this, suddenly you're a coach. Yeah. You tout some, like, you know, jibber jabber about, like, fitness routines and nutrition. People believe you. So then they're. They become a coach and they buy their online programs, and yet they know nothing about nothing. Right? Which, by the way, is even more dangerous. Right? Because that's how you get injured and that's how you don't stay on a plan. If it's too easy, too hard, it's unadaptable, whatever. The thing is, which is why I think it's amazing you guys, though, have done a good job. Like I was just saying to you offline, you guys have done a spectacular job of taking something that you're good at and then growing it into literally, like an empire. It's amazing. Adam, like, you and I talk this all the time because, you know, and I was just telling you I was doing this thing the other day or like, and I was using you as an example, right? Because fitness, to me is a microcosm of life, right? Because you're. You're taught and you. You were. You learn so many fundamental skills, like the discipline, delayed gratification, patience, all the things, right? And if you, You. If you take those, you could. It's great for business. It's great for all these things. And you guys have built an incredible business with so many verticals. Now you're building the vertical of, like, training. Like, how, like, can you walk me through the evolution of, like, how this became, like, you guys were just trainers again, Just the word. Just. Just trainers at a gym, right? Like, doing your thing, come together. You do a podcast. How did the Mind Pump podcast turn into such an empire?

[Tony Robbins]

You know, let me start before emperor of the empire, Adam goes here. I know you like, if it's an empire. No, and he's. Adam is. Is. Is definitely the. The business genius in savant. But I will say this, and I think I can say this confidently. What we learned. What we learned training lots and lots and lots of people over 20 years. What we learned that helped us be successful with our clients as defined by not just us building a business, but actually getting people healthy and helping them develop a relationship with it, where they're still doing it. All the clients that we don't train anymore, we're still in contact with, they're still consistent, they're still doing it. They're still eating right. They're still exercising. These are all general Everyday people, they were not fitness fanatics. They're still not fitness fanatics, but they've developed these relationships through our coaching that it took trial and error of decades of us to learn.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Tony Robbins]

I can say this with full confidence. What you hear us communicate and how we run the business, not the business side, but the purpose behind the business side was based off of what we learned there. And so what you often hear people say is how authentic we are and what we say. And it was learned by training clients. Now, the ins and outs of the business, that's a different conversation. But sticking to those fundamentals of what we learned that works with people and how we communicate. That's why the podcast itself has done really well.

[Jen]

I think the fundamentals go deeper than that because I think your personal values are the fundamentals that grew the business. In my opinion, this is just me being the outsider. You guys have stuck. You've been very true blue to what you believe in, what you don't like. I'll. We'll say all the time, like we like. I'm always like, oh, what do you think of this thing? Do you want to work with this one? Do what do you think of that one? And you guys say no more than you say yes. And I think that word no has served you exceptionally well in growing a business that have true, not just followers, but people who've trusted. People who trust you, number one, who are engaged by your trust, they're engaged by you in a real way, authentic way, because they know they can trust you. And so that's how your audience has really grown from the outside looking in.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'm going to oversimplify it, but I do think it's so true, and it is along the lines of what kind of Sal is alluding to not me. No, you both are, in a sense. Right. I do think what you're saying to me is why I think the four of us work so well. The fact that our values align so much is what has made this stay together for so long. If we had different values, I don't think we would have ever been able to stick through this. But I also think that it's. It's not that special. It's that we did something. And maybe this is the advantage of being older and that we've been in this profession for a long time, but we live in this era with social media of this instant gratification where so many people want, like you have a young kid who sees what Mind Pump is doing and goes, oh, I want to go. Do that, well, what you don't take into consideration is the 20 years of becoming a master at our craft, the eight years of not being very good and then being kind of good and then being really good and then being great at what we. That process is the most important and we all did it already. We did that before this, before we turned these mics on. And so what you hear is three guys that have been training for a combined 60 plus years together of training real people and learn going through the process of sucking, then getting a little bit better than getting good, then becoming great. And because we've always led with those same principles in every other aspect and every leg of this business of listen, we on there, what we don't know, I don't know anything about bitcoin, I don't know anything about anything to do with software, and that's so not my space. But we know fitness really, really well and all aspects of it, from supplements to personal training, even to now fitness and podcast world. Like, we know that so well. And what we've led with is can we go out and provide more value than anybody else that's competing with us? And I think all of us have always thought we could. We always believe that we've put the work in to be great at our craft and that we're just going to go and lead by giving so much of this value to other people and then the business will happen. And that's how every leg of this business has happened, is we've led with this idea of giving first, teaching others what we've learned over all these years, and then we allow the business to tell us what's next. The reason why we're in the training side is we've come to this point, this crossroad in the business where we have so many people asking us, do you have a list of trainers that you trust? Or who should we personal train with? Or just like the questions you're asking right now, we've been asked that so much. It's like, listen, there is a business for us right here to happen if we bill, if we take the time to hire correctly, train and develop good coaches and trainers underneath us. We have a business of training people both virtually and in person, waiting for us to happen. But we had to do the other stuff first. Yeah, we had to lead with all that. And then, and then the consumer told us what's next.

[Jen]

Right. So you also stayed true to what you got, what your wheelhouse is. You're not trying to venture out of your wheelhouse. You're just taking your wheelhouse and you're adding on totally because you, this is all the things that you all know really well.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Really well.

[Jen]

The trading thing, to me, I'm surprised it took this long. It's like a no brainer, right? Like that's what your core competence was like. You all were really good trainers. I'm surprised it took this long to do it. Why?

[Tony Robbins]

Well, because first off, we have so much respect for good trainers and coaches and so much goes into producing good trainers and coaches. That it was, it's a monster.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It is a monster.

[Tony Robbins]

So like building and developing it won't.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Be nowhere near as profitable as all the other players.

[Tony Robbins]

I'll give you an example. Okay. We obviously have a huge podcast, millions of downloads. Do you know how many leads of potential clients we can produce in an episode? Tremendous amounts. Do you know how many trainers we have on board right now on staff too? You know why?

[Jen]

They're hard to find.

[Tony Robbins]

No, no, I could, I could put out a thing. I could hire 50 trainers tomorrow.

[Jen]

Good ones though.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Yes, of course.

[Tony Robbins]

We are not going to mess around and we're going to slow it down as much as possible because we don't want anybody representing Mind Pump that isn't going to deliver.

[Adam Schafer]

We've seen mistakes already through these other brands that have let it get away from them. The quality control has, you know, gone haywire and then forever that brand is now known for this, this less quality trainer that they're producing and gyms. And so it's like for us, it's really just to, to sit back and, and make sure we, we pay attention to all these details. We build, develop these, these trainers to become great. So it's a reflection of everything we've talked about because we've built so much trust with our audience and we really hold that tight and dear to us because if we lose that really our whole business implodes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We, we have the, the luxury to do what they're both saying because we, we did the other thing first.

[Tony Robbins]

That's right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So it would be, this would be like, let's say we came out the gates and started personal training. We'd be put in a very interesting, like when we first started, when we hired Kyle, trained him up for over a year and a half and then we hired the next trainer and then the next trainer. Like that has been such a slow process that we actually have lost money. We're now, we're making money and we're profitable now. But if you count up all the hours and money and investing into people. We did before we actually started collecting money. We were in the red because we didn't come out just trying to sell and make money right away. It's like, hey, let's make sure we hire the right person who he knows going to have to oversee that because we don't have the time to fully oversee that. So we got to make sure we build that. Right. That person has got to have the right character, got to have this right values.

[Jen]

And Kyle, the guy's a head trainer.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So it was like. And that it took us a long time, time to get somebody who we thought, okay, exceptional individual. Yeah. This kid has got as high of integrity as all of us. He's incredibly loyal. He's on brand. It's like, okay, we have that person in place. Okay. Now. And it's. And we had that luxury of, you know, if we didn't have to, if we didn't have a business that was already paying all the bills and covering everything, we wouldn't have been able to do that. So we waited to do a business that isn't as high of profitability and doesn't have as high as margins as the other parts of the business. So we could take our time and we didn't have to rush.

[Jen]

Okay, but how about Map? Like the, your. All your online programs, that's like the bread and butter a lot of what you do. Right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's what built this.

[Jen]

That's what built this whole. That was the beginning of that. Besides the podcast, the empire was really starting to take off when you built out the maps. Right, right.

[Tony Robbins]

We had maps for a year before we didn't sell anything for a year, but.

[Jen]

Right, but then you did maps and it crushed.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So why then do you. Does it. Are you worried that the training business, the online business, the, the in person business will basically like, basically eat into the maps business?

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, yeah. Maps is a. Maps programs are written for a general audience. It's a low ticket item. It's going to feed the training.

[Jen]

Right. So people can do the omelet. They don't like. That's not hands on, obviously. It's just you buy the program and like everything's in there. Then you have the. Well, personal training is a whole different thing. But the virtual training, do they, can they use.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Of course the trainers will use all the programs.

[Adam Schafer]

We're going to pair that together. Yeah.

[Jen]

Okay. So they are using the Maps program to train the, the client, but they're individualized too.

[Tony Robbins]

Right. So I mean I can create the Best program, digital program for, you know, moms who want to be fit.

[Jen]

You have the mommy program?

[Tony Robbins]

We do. Right. But that's. It's still general. Right. If. If the mom hires me right now, I'm looking at an individual human, and I can individualize, just exercise. No program we create will ever be better than a good coach.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It made perfect sense to go in the training. I mean, we. On average, we do almost 240 programs a day. Right. Mass programs are sold all over the world every day.

[Jen]

240. How much is each one sold for?

[Sal Di Stefano]

50 to 100 bucks, depending on the sale or whatever it is. Okay.

[Jen]

I want a loan from you guys.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So. So every day that's happening.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Now we have an incredible customer service team on the back end that when somebody emails in or goes to our chat and has a question about the program or exercise or anything like that, that they're communicating. And so we've had. And we've been doing that for years. So for years we've been collecting all this Data on these 200 plus people that buy every single day. Who just wants to do it themselves. What kind of questions are they asking, who? And there's a large enough percentage of people that are like, man, I wish I had somebody to help me through this process. Now we have that. But we wouldn't. We wouldn't have done that if we didn't collect that. That stuff first, though. First, let's. Let's go. Let's go first, do this. Go prove that there's something there, and then again, allow the customer to tell us what's the next business to be made.

[Jen]

Who built the programs?

[Sal Di Stefano]

All of you, or sounded the original one?

[Tony Robbins]

I wrote the original one. Before we started the podcast, Doug and I were business partners. He was my client initially, and we created Maps Anabolic. Shot it, did the whole thing. Then we started the podcast. So it was already there. Maps Anabolic was there, but we didn't sell it for a year. It wasn't until a year of doing podcasting, building an audience and trust and authority, that we then did our first program launch.

[Jen]

What's the like, is it 50, 50 split? Women? What's the matter? How men versus almost split right down the middle?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, pretty close. Different platforms are different. Like YouTube is like a high 70%. Gu guys are on YouTube compared to girls.

[Tony Robbins]

Although that's a lot of women watching our YouTube channel. If you look at how many men in General are on YouTube.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, yeah, YouTube is skewed 80, 20 or more in the general.

[Tony Robbins]

We have A huge female audience, which is. I find I get a lot of pride in that. Considers three. You know, they like to call us three bros. Yeah.

[Jen]

You know, it's really funny, actually. I know more women who listen to you than men.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Isn't that funny?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, I mean, I think our. Our female audience is the most loyal and best customers. For sure.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Dudes don't ask for directions.

[Jen]

No, exactly. But women do. I have a. Of mine who's.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All the dudes are all the freeloaders.

[Jen]

Yeah, exactly. I know a couple women. One. One in particular who does your map. She loves your program, and you got. She got ripped from your program.

[Tony Robbins]

That's awesome.

[Jen]

Yeah, it was really. Actually, I was like, wow, we have 27 of them.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's an important thing to know. And this is like. So I got to see maps long before Mind Pump happened. Sal sent it over for me to see it, and I was at a place in my career that when I saw what he had written, I already. Without even meeting him or getting to really know him yet, because I didn't know him very well at all. I knew how brilliant of a trainer he was, and I went, okay. He, like, this whole. This whole conversation started on, how do you know a good trainer? Yeah, I knew, by the way he wrote a program that he knew his shit. I was like, oh, I want to meet this guy. I want to get in the same room as he is. And so we got together. And so it does matter to all the experience, the fact that we gave this. We started this podcast with all this free information, not asking for anything. And then when the people started, we. When we started to sell mass programs was after every guy was coming to work going, oh, my God, somebody's trying to donate money to me. Have you ever heard of a Patreon? People are telling us to start a Patreon. People are asking to buy stuff. We were literally getting people trying to give us money because they had felt that we'd given them so much value from the podcast. Then it was like, now it's time to show them what maps is.

[Jen]

Right, Right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And because I knew, and so did their other guys know how good Maps was. We knew it was going to be very effective. We knew that when they got in the hands, especially of the female client. Because one of the things that when you're a trainer, one of the first go to moves when you get good at helping your female clients. And we gotta remember, we go back 20 years, so this is a little bit different today for the listener Than it was.

[Tony Robbins]

A lot of stuff is accepted now. Yeah. That when we women, women did not.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Train five by five training women did not deadlift and squat heavy.

[Jen]

Not at all.

[Sal Di Stefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

20 years ago, nothing under 5 reps.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So phase one of maps anabolic is 5 by 5 heavy squatting and deadlifting in it. And I knew when Sal put that in that program was like, oh one. I already know that the most, our most common client is middle aged women. And I know that I had learned by this time in my career that when I take a woman through a traditional block of five by five training, I blow her mind. She puts on muscle, her butt gets tighter, she leans out, she's eating more, and I always blow. And so his first phase of Maps Anabolic was designed that way. I'm like, oh, this is brilliant. These girls are going to get on this within one month or two months. It's going to blow their mind. And then they'll forever be bought into us. So that's exactly what happened. We release maps, it goes out to the public, we sell a few hundred of them together and all the people come back, oh my God, I've never trained this few of days. Oh my God, I've never trained like this and I've seen this much. And then here come all the. And then it just grew off of referrals. We didn't advertise back then. We didn't have any sort of marketing sales funnel besides the podcast. And it was purely off of us giving free information, getting people to start that mass program and then them seeing. Blowing their minds by the results.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And because of that, we were allowed to do all the other things.

[Jen]

You know, it's interesting because Sal, the people are still really stuck, a lot of women are still stuck in their head that if they do hardcore heavy strength training, they're gonna, they're gonna be bulky, they're gonna be have a lot of mass. So it's the whole cardio versus strength thing. Right. I still feel that that's still something that a lot of women struggle with. Right. How do you have any advice on how to kind of get women over that hump to doing more strength training?

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. You know, it's funny is that this, this conversation is so much more accepted today. When, when we were having this conversation just 10 years ago on the podcast, it was like controversial. Blowing people's minds. I see women lifting weights all the time now. It's the fastest growing demographic of people who strength train because they're figuring this out. But you know, muscle Is fat burning machinery. It's hard to build muscle, so. And muscle is very dense and it looks good. So if you lose 10 pounds of body fat and replace it with 10 pounds of muscle, which, by the way, gaining 10 pounds of muscle, very difficult for 99.9% of women. But let's just say you did that. You weigh the same on the scale, you look radically different. You're smaller muscle takes up less space than body fat. On a pound for pound basis, something almost like a quarter less space shaped.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Different, and it looks better on the.

[Tony Robbins]

Body, and it goes to different places, and it's firm and it feels good, and you're burning more calories, you're leaner with less work, and your hormones are working better. It's, it's. And when women do it, and they do it right, not the wrong way, right, because you can do circuits and you can make strength training turn in cardio too, but if you do it right, you're sold. It's like, that's it. This is. This is incredible.

[Jen]

Okay, so what's the right way for a woman to strength train?

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, depending on the individual, but generally speaking, is strength trained like someone who wants to get strong? So you do a set, you rest for two minutes, you do a set, you rest for two minutes. Not set, set, set, set, set, exercise, exercise, exercise. But you literally just like a strength athlete works out, you do a set, you rest.

[Sal Di Stefano]

One of the best things that the average woman who wants to be lean, tone, firm, uses all that vocabulary, could do is train like a power lifter. Yeah, like literally one of the best things that she can do that will. Will help her out or head towards that goal. And, and it's not what you would think. Like, that's not the first thing that comes to a woman's mind is like, oh, I should train like a power lifter to look like this, this physique I'm describing, but it's the truth. And a lot of that has to do with. With how they've been marketed to for so long and all the different classes and circuit training and butt burner and all this, all these, all these gimmicky things that have been sold to women, learning movements that doesn't move the needle at all when it comes to sculpting and shaping a body, which is, again, why before I even met Sal, I knew how good of a trainer he was, by the way he programmed.

[Jen]

So wait, so how does a power lifter train that women should mimic?

[Sal Di Stefano]

5 by 5. So the big lift, big core list.

[Jen]

Explain that. So people who don't know what you should do.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, so you could also train like a bodybuilder or like other strength athletes. But we like powerlifter or he says powerlifter because it's going to place your focus on strength. Okay, so there are very, there are some movements that are far more effective than others as shaping the body. You, your, your bench presses, your rows, your squats, your deadlifts, your overhead presses, like your basic compound. What they're known as compound lifts. Those are the ones that are going to give you more bang for your buck than other lifts. For example, getting really good at a barbell squat is going to give you better results than five other leg exercises combined. Okay, so way less work, far better results. That's true for all the other exercises that I listed. So focus on those lifts, get stronger than practice them. In other words, go to the gym, don't beat yourself up, but rather practice those lifts and get good at them and your body will start to shape. Feed the muscle. In other words, eat a high protein diet, don't starve yourself, get stronger in the gym. As you get stronger, usually metabolic rate starts to follow and then you start to see some fat loss.

[Jen]

So are you guys tired of protein bars that come loaded with calories and sugar? Because I sure am. Most of These bars are 20 grams of protein, but over 350 calories and 20 grams of sugar. And that formula hasn't changed in decades. Well, meet David, the protein bar that finally gets it right. They have 28 grams of protein, 150 calories and zero sugar. That's 40% more protein and 57 fewer calories. With none of the junk backed by science and packed by clean fuel, David delivers what your body actually needs without compromise. It's great for the gym, on the go or even just to like get that sugar craving. It is honestly my favorite protein bar. So try David today. And now you can buy four and get the fifth [e-mail] habitsandhustustle. That's davidprotein.com habitsandHustustle for your fifth bar. 3. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. You did let me share my daily routine game changer with you. It's the Momentous 3. I've been using their protein, their creatine and omega 3 combo for months now and the results are undeniable. These nutrients are key for long term health and performance, but hard to get enough of through diet alone. The crea pure creatine boosts both physical and your mental performance. The grass fed whey tastes great with no weird aftertaste. And their Omega 3 is a must for recovery. Since adding these, my energy, my recovery and my overall well being has really improved. So if you want better performance, this is the way to go. Visit livemomentous.com and use my code Jen for 35 off your first subscription. That's livemomentous.com code Jen for 35% off your first subscription. Trust me, you'll be happy you did. Okay, so I want all of you to tell me, if you can only do five exercises for the rest of your life, what would they do?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Overhead press, row, bench press, squat, deadlift. Those five. Five. Yeah, do those. I'll take you.

[Tony Robbins]

Now, that's not perfect because you. You also want to include rotation. But if I only did five, you're good.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Those, those five movements paired with a woman hitting her protein intake, the upper end of her protein intake. So one to one ratio. So however much you weigh, hit that in grams of protein or how much you want to weigh. Right. So if you want to weigh 130, 130 grams of protein, do those five lifts three times a week. Just get good at them and get strong. I swear you will. You will build one of the best bodies you've ever built.

[Tony Robbins]

That's right.

[Jen]

Okay. And so. And you should also keep unloading, shouldn't you?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, yeah. Get strong. What I'm saying, get strong at them. What I'm communicating is the goal should be to over time, slowly get stronger and stronger, which would mean adding more weight to the ball.

[Jen]

Right. So you're saying a bench press, a row, a squat, a deadlift.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Overhead press.

[Jen]

Overhead press, Yep.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Those five.

[Jen]

Okay. So do you think that a lunge is overrated?

[Tony Robbins]

No, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Lunges is a variation of a squat.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Oh, so now we're talking about very. I'm not. We're talking about variation.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Also, remember this?

[Adam Schafer]

He's talking about the biggest.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You said, if I only got five exercises, what would the five be? Forever.

[Jen]

Those are the five. Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I can make a case for all those being some sort of a unilateral movement too. And we can get into all the nuances.

[Jen]

So that was my next question.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Why lateral rotational core stuff is important. Like.

[Jen]

Okay, I have a question.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Okay. Because I thought so our bodies are imbalanced, right. Like my. I have. My right side is much stronger than my left side. So I was under the school thought that doing a lot of unilateral, like one, one side at a Time is way better for a balancing. Yeah. Adjusting imbalances and strengthening my body. Is that not accurate?

[Adam Schafer]

And I think that that's an important part of the process. What they're describing is the foundation of.

[Jen]

Your strength to build off the foundation.

[Adam Schafer]

So as you go back, there's. There's a necessity to go through cycles of. Of unilateral training or even like, including more mobility and other variations of movement. Otherwise we get too strong in one direction, which, for these exercises we listed are all in the sagittal planes. So this is problematic. Once we get too strong and we encounter things in the real world where you do have, you know, you move with acceleration, you don't train that way. You're going to feel the impact of that. You have something else that sort of slips. You have some kind of lateral shift. And now we have pain and weakness there. That's not addressed. So then that creates an injury, but the basis of it is you want to get as strong as possible with these foundational lifts.

[Jen]

Got it.

[Adam Schafer]

And then we branch from there.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, let's. Let's change the question a little bit so you understand. So the audience understands why we came at it the way we did. The question remains the same, what will we do? But I've got eight weeks to prove to you I know what the fuck I'm doing. And if I only got eight weeks, and I want to give you the biggest bang for your buck, it's those five movements. Go get strong at it. Because I know that lunging, all the other great unilateral movements that have tremendous value and are absolutely going to get implemented in our routine as we continue on. I know that I will show you the greatest change physically and metabolically by doing those five lifts first. Then you'll be bought into me like, holy Adam. I can't believe what we've done. Anyways. Okay, okay, now let me explain to you why we need to incorporate rotational work, why we need to do some lunging and unilateral work. This is.

[Jen]

And so we're talking about phase one is what you explained, right. What's phase two? What are the next five best exercises? Once you've got your foundation strong.

[Tony Robbins]

You know what's funny is so. So you can add. We can go. You can break down the human body into some basic movements. You have squatting, hip hinging. You have pressing both vertically and horizontally. And you have rowing and I think. Did I say rotation? Rotation is in there as well. And anti. Rotation. So those are basic human movements. So all exercises can Kind of fall in those categories. But essentially what you want to do is you want to train your body to be strong and lots of different, lots of different planes of movement and you want to be good at all of those different things. I didn't include in there acceleration and deceleration. And so it can get very complicated. And this is what a good trainer will know. But if you're the average person, okay, and you're like, hey, I want to just use, I want to do some strength training and I want to feel pretty fit and strong. Like you just do those five lifts, you're doing pretty good.

[Jen]

Let's talk about someone who's not the average now. Let's say someone's been training for a while. Yeah, Right. And they've kind of got the foundation. Got, they've got the foundation going. What, what's the next thing that they should be focusing on? Is it rotations? Is it unilateral multiplanar movement?

[Sal Di Stefano]

We, we have, we have, we have a couple programs in particular Map Symmetry, which addresses all unilateral work, maps performance, which is all this like multiplanar rotational type stuff. What we tell the audience and the Irishman is every year, you should run one of those programs every year. And then outside of that, do whatever you want, goal wise. You want to train for ocr, you want to train for a powerlifting meet, you want to train for a bikini competition, train however the hell you want that your heart desires that you're attracted to or that you get excited about. But just make sure to incorporate one cycle of that to balance you out.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Tony Robbins]

It also matters, Jen, on, on what you've been doing. Okay? So your experience, right? I mean, it does your experience, you've been working out for a while.

[Adam Schafer]

That's coming into this whole situation.

[Jen]

You've been doing okay, but this is the thing, right? Like, you know, a big thing that girls to have a big, A good booty, blah, blah, blah. Is I, is it overrated to do like hip thrust? A hip thrust?

[Tony Robbins]

No, I mean hip thrusts, here's why they're good.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a great glute exercise.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. So here's why you'll heal. You'll hear women rave about the hip thrust or people rave about the hip thrust for building their butt. I'll go over studies first, but then I'll tell you why hip thrusts for some people are so good.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Tony Robbins]

To build a butt. So they've done head to head studies on comparing the barbell squat, which is the, a great exercise. To the hip thrust for glute growth. Okay, now, if we're talking about overall leg development, for talking about overall athletic performance, the squat's gonna win. But if we're looking at just butt growth, they're actually tied. They're actually just as good as one another. And yet we have all these people saying that the hip thrust is superior. And here's why. People who struggle to build a butt doing a squat tend to have issues with how their muscles fire while doing the squat. They tend to have issues with connecting to the glutes in a squat. They tend to be, you know, for lack of a better term, quad dominant. So they do squats all the time. Like, my butt's not growing. My quads are growing. My butt's not growing. The hip thrust loads the glutes directly in a shortened position. You feel them, you can connect to them. You can squeeze. So for the woman who squats who doesn't feel her butt grow at all, it's like, this isn't working for me. The barbell hip thrust is a. Is a tremendous exercise for butt development. But all things being equal, the squat outranks the hip thrust. Now, the real answer is, in a routine, you probably want to do both, right? They're both valuable.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, before, there was a time when none of us hip thrusted or hip thrusted our clients, because it wasn't a popular lift. They didn't have machines that loaded the plate so you could get into it comfortably. What we would do with a client that is that Sal's describing that has a hard time feeling her butt when she squats is you would prime her glutes before she goes into a squat.

[Jen]

Squat.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So you do, like, floor bridges, which.

[Tony Robbins]

Is like a hip thrust just on the floor.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So I'd have her do floor bridges to get connected to her ass and have squeeze. You feel that? Oh, yeah, I definitely feel that. Okay, great. Now let's get over here and do squats. Think about that as you squat. And so that's how we would teach that client to get a better connection to her glutes when she's got to improve the glute growth. That was before hip thrust became so popular, and now you have all these great machines for it, and now it's the new hot thing to do.

[Jen]

It's so true. I think everything becomes trendy, right? Like.

[Tony Robbins]

Like.

[Jen]

And I also. Is it true or is it that a lot of people's bodies are not able to squat right because they can't feel their. But they can't they're not, their glutes aren't firing and all these other things.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, so everybody's body, so long as they don't have any, you know, genetic defects, deformaties, or really bad injuries, everybody's body should be able to squat. Now, the reason why not everybody can squat is that they've lost the ability to squat because they stopped squatting when they were four. Okay, so if I were to say to you, should everybody be able to walk? Well, yeah, unless they have some kind of genetic issue or injury. Squatting is a fundamental human movement. Watch any 4 year old sit in a squat and you'll see that it's a fundamental human movement. We just stop squatting. We don't squat to do anything anymore. We sit on a toilet to go to the bathroom.

[Jen]

Yeah, that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

We rest just in a squat.

[Tony Robbins]

That was in chairs. That's a resting position. Most people can't sit in a squat to rest. They've lost the mobility. And your body. If you stop practicing a movement or even a fundamental human movement, your body will forget how to do it. It'll prune the neural networks and forget and get rid of your. So if you took an, if you took an adult, you took a 12 year old and you bet, you put them in a bed and never had them walk for 10 years and then had them get up, they're not going to be able to walk. They'll have to relearn how to walk. And walking is fundamental. So, I mean, you're squatting.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're also. This is setting the table for the original conversation of how do we define a good trainer? See, a good trainer takes a client who can't squat right now, and our goal is to get to that point. Yeah, so I had a lot of clients because of course on the podcast we talk about the benefits of squatting so much. I get asked like, well, what if you can't? Or what if I, I haven't been able to, or I get all this pain? Like, well, I would, as a trainer, I wouldn't take that client and force them to squat if they're, they're feeling pain or they can't do it for whatever reason. But that becomes our goal. Our goal now becomes, okay, you've lost the ability to squat. It is a basic human movement. We should be able to do that. My goal is to get you there. And a really good trainer can assess the way your body moves because it's normally due to limiting mobility factors, like you have really poor ankle mobility so your heels rise up when you squat down, and then your knees start to hurt, and it's like, well, that has less to do with. You can't squat. Has more to do with. You have of poor ankle joint function. If I can improve that, then I could get you down into a squat. Or you have somebody who rolls their. Their shoulders and their chest that falls forward. It's like, if I could get you to sit up properly, like, so assessing the way that person moves, what is limiting them from being able to squat, and then knowing how to unpack that and go work on those things that get, by the way, dress your way.

[Adam Schafer]

Back so you can actually find movements that are. They can accomplish. And it keeps chipping away at that overall goal where it's like you can. You can deconstruct that you could place in front of them ways that they could see progress and they could see levels of improvement in their mobility. And so, you know, it's not something we just remove that fact that you'll never be able to do a squat again.

[Tony Robbins]

It's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. This is a challenge that we're going to keep chipping away.

[Tony Robbins]

By the way, sometimes you never get a client to be able to squat. I mean, I had clients that hired me when they were 60, and my goal was to get them to be able to do squat. And five years later, we made tremendous progress. Progress.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

But we still can't. You can squat and just.

[Adam Schafer]

Still working on it, though.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah, and we're still working on. Because it's, It's. It's. It's the working towards that you provide them with so much benefits and mobility, pain, strength, all of it, everything.

[Jen]

Okay. Are crunches a waste of time?

[Tony Robbins]

No.

[Jen]

You don't think so?

[Tony Robbins]

No. Why would they be a waste of time?

[Jen]

Because the other big myth, that because crunches, you're just. You basically can be using your neck, you're not using your entire core. Blah, blah, blah. I'm asking you, you're the exceptional trainer.

[Tony Robbins]

No, it's an exercise. I mean, you're working spinal flexion. You're getting the. Mainly the abdominis, the abdominals to do the movement. A plank is a different movement. They're both good.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's just isometric.

[Tony Robbins]

Isometric contraction.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I mean, like, again, it depends.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it depends.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So what happens. Ask you about crunches is because they want to have visible abs, and it's like, yeah, you're wasting your time crunching a thousand times all day to have these. There's. Right. So let me ask Better movement. So it's like, that's how.

[Jen]

Okay, you're right. So let me ask you a better question. How does someone get a six pack in the most effective way?

[Tony Robbins]

All right.

[Jen]

Besides the kitchen?

[Tony Robbins]

Okay, so two things. You named one of them. You got to be lean enough. If you're not lean enough, it doesn't matter. And number two, most of it. And number two, you have to build your abs. You have to build.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a muscle.

[Tony Robbins]

It's like. It's like your biceps or your lats or your quads. Like, if you get them to build, they're going to be more visible. So doing a hundred reps is not going to build your abs. Like 100 reps in my. My biceps curls aren't going to build my biceps. You have to get them strong. So do things in the 8 to 12 rep range with good control, with good contraction, full extension, where you're developing the muscles of your abs. And then as they develop, you'll see them.

[Adam Schafer]

We'll talk about the hip flexor deactivation, because this is a common problem a lot of people face when they're crunching. And so, you know, Sal did a really good video about this. But there's a way to do that without, you know, over emphasizing your hip flexors, which a lot of times, you know, that can create back problems and have its own issues in itself. But once you figure out how to do that, squeeze your glutes, get that more involved. A little bit of a lift. Sometimes you lift your legs up on a step and you're able to crunch and really kind of take that sternum to the belly button and crunch. You know, with a very specific technique for that. You get more activation.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. So a lot of people confuse forward flexion with, I'm working my abs, but I can bend forward at the hips or I can bend forward at the lumbar spine. So lumbar spine is abs, hips is hip flexors. So you see people do leg raises, but they're not. Their tailbone isn't tucking and curving up. That's abs. So they're just lifting their legs. That's hip flexors. So you see a lot of people do ab exercise, but really what they're.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Doing are neck exercises.

[Tony Robbins]

So the thing with core training is definitely part of it with every exercise.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Technique is the most important in the. The. What makes Sal or Justin super trainers. Is that what they would do with a client? Because I'd say.

[Jen]

Not you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

No, I mean, I would, too. They're the better. They're the better trainers.

[Tony Robbins]

Being humble.

[Sal Di Stefano]

They're the better trainers. Is that I. Lisa, I can't recall ever a client who hired me who ever trained five to six reps of ABS. Everybody does ABS 15, 20, 30 circuit. So they know that I know that. So one of the most powerful things you can do is to get somebody to do heavy loaded ab exercises. If you want to build your abs better than you've ever built them before, I would guess 90% or more people listening to this podcast right now now haven't trained them that way. You'll see the greatest benefit from that right there.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So that's. And that's. And it's not that crunches and high reps don't have value, it's just that that's what everybody does. Yeah, everybody defaults to high rep neck exercise or hip flexor getting involved versus like. Yeah, well I bet if I took that person and did five controlled full lever sit ups where they held a ten pound plate, I would blow their eyes up.

[Jen]

Just because people can't do that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

No, they can't.

[Jen]

They're not trading for that. Like you said.

[Adam Schafer]

Said.

[Jen]

I think it's because we are so conditioned to doing these group classes like F4 at F45 or all these gyms where you're just like doing like you're going through the motions like what we've always done. So do you think that a lot of these group classes, not all, but a lot like the F45s and the garbage Orange theory problematic are just like a waste of time?

[Tony Robbins]

Garbage? I don't know if I wouldn't say waste of time.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All the heat I got back them off the couch.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. As they say.

[Tony Robbins]

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time, but the exercises, the exercises in those classes are you could just train them out with whatever exercise. It's just moving. They're just getting you to move.

[Jen]

It's just moving.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's what I tell.

[Jen]

I think that's a good.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's what I tell my clients that ask about, about orange theory and F45. If you are going there to make change to your body, it's a terrible idea. If you're already happy with your fitness level and you love the community and you enjoy the class and you're not trying to make any change to.

[Adam Schafer]

You're having fun.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

See, if you're not trying to make change and you, you, you're. Because you're going to burn some calories and you're going to spend some energy, and that in itself has value. But if you're showing up there in hopes that you're going to build a body that you want that you don't currently have, it's a horrible approach.

[Jen]

Adam, you forgot it depends, first of all. But it's true, right? Like, I think that's a great exam. That's a great explanation. If you just want to, like, move your body and see some people that you like to see and socialize with, it's great weight. But for body competition, those classes do, by the way, I think not only those classes do nothing for you, they actually do. Like, they make you hungrier because it's basically getting you hungry because of the cardio aspect. And then you end up eating more. Therefore, you're probably going to gain weight from doing this.

[Adam Schafer]

Stress, injuries, and all kinds of stuff.

[Jen]

That's true.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It also, it tends to track the wrong person. It tends to attract the cortisol junkies. So the people that need that adrenaline, that push and their, and their cortisol.

[Tony Robbins]

Is all over the board, their bodies.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And then they, and they need that hard push just to feel anything. And they think that feedback they're getting is positive when it's really not. So it's like the worst person that should be taking that class.

[Tony Robbins]

If you added up all the wasted monthly fees for those types of classes, all the wasted money on supplements, you know, that basically supplements will do, if you get the best supplements will be like, 2%.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay. Okay. The best supplements will do 2%.

[Jen]

I'm so glad you said all the.

[Tony Robbins]

Wasted money on, you know, all the diet stuff, and you just took a fraction of that and invested it in a good trainer. You would, you, the, the dividends would be, would blow you away.

[Jen]

I, I, I, I believe that. I believe that. I think that, I mean, I'm a great example, right? I used to do all those classes all the time because I thought, okay, like, that's, that's what we all did back in the day, right? Like, oh, I was gonna go do this class. I was doing Barry's boot camps, and I was doing all. And I was dying. And all I really got from any of that is, like, a bad ankle, a bad knee, like, so many stress fractures, and an appetite that was, like, through the roof that I ended up actually, like, eating four times more and gaining weight and gaining body fat.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, I would guess, I mean, I'd love to hear from you. You're what your journey was like. I bet you work out less and have, and you're older, and you have a better body today, probably because you strength train.

[Jen]

I do a lot of strength training.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Jen]

I have to say, like. Like, I think that whenever I do too much intense cardio.

[Tony Robbins]

Yes.

[Jen]

I end up gaining weight because of the amount of food I eat. Like, I eat an a. Just an enormous amount of calories just because I'm so ravenous. But when I do more, like, low imp, like, kind of like, very, like, very slow cardio or just, like, walking, and then I'm doing hardcore weights, I always look better.

[Tony Robbins]

That's right.

[Jen]

I always look. But. And I will tell you another myth, and I want to ask you guys about this, because I realized this, like, just recently. So, you know, like, the walking vest has been. Become, like, the hugest trend, Right. Every, like, Tom, Dick, and Harry and Molly are wearing these. These vests, and I was one of them, and I was a huge advocate for them. What I started to notice was my foot, like, started to really hurt, and my ankle, my plant. I started to get really bad planter fat. Fas. Fasciitis. My ankle was hurting me, and I went to this place, this wellness facility, actually. It's called Sensei. Have you been there? Yeah, it's. It's this thing. It's called the Sensei Resort. And the guy I met met this guy there who was a trainer, and he was asking me all these questions, and when I told him about the weighted vest, he's like, you shouldn't be wearing that. And he was so scientific into what. Like, what it does. And that was, like, kind of the culprit to all of my injuries, where I realized that this weighted vest, this whole phenomenon, is actually maybe detrimental and not a positive thing.

[Tony Robbins]

There's zero additional benefit. The only people that get value from training with a weighted vest.

[Adam Schafer]

Fireman and military.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. People who are training to be able to wear something that's weighted. In other words, you're gonna go rucking.

[Jen]

Yeah, this rucking. This is a phenomenon. That's fine.

[Tony Robbins]

If you want to get good at rucking, you probably should practice ruck trucking. Right? You want to get good. You want to be good at, like, as a firefighter, you're gonna have to carry gear. You probably should do some training wearing gear. But if you want to get fit and you're walking, don't wear a weighted vest. All it does is it throws off people. Most people can walk relatively well without creating problems. Okay. So as long as they train within or walk within their. Within their fitness level, they're probably not gonna hurt themselves. It's one of the few things we could do still pretty well as humans is walk think. Thankfully we're not wally world yet. You throw a weighted vest on somebody and it throws everything off just enough to cause problems. And, and that's what's gonna. And it doesn't give you. Doesn't burn this crazy amount of extra calories.

[Sal Di Stefano]

This phenomenon came from a study that was done recently and our, our friend Chalene Johnson is one of the advocates for the weighted vest because she read this study and this is the problem with studies.

[Jen]

Yeah, she's a huge advocate for the.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Weighted vest because there was a bone. I can't remember what the studies.

[Tony Robbins]

Density.

[Adam Schafer]

Bone density.

[Jen]

Yeah. Bone den. It says it increases your bone density. By the way, it was that it was Chalene that got me into the weighted basket.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Because it was, it was she's. And of course she did it and then she saw these positive benefits that happened from it. Therefore she tested. I mean what one of us would tell you is like go lift weights. Go lift weights and that person will get all those benefits and some.

[Tony Robbins]

Well, you're gonna.

[Jen]

Yeah, because I do. I believe it. What it does, the weighted vest just throws off, throws your body off just enough where it could it. It tweaks your body slowly so you don't even know it's the weight advanced.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Listen, most of us don't. Are not symmetrical and don't walk perfectly already as it is. And adding weight to that, it's just like somebody who's obese. Why they have all these other chronic issues and pains that come up from it is because they're carrying this extra weight on their body and they don't walk.

[Adam Schafer]

Their joints feel the impact.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's not helping them to add weight to your vest.

[Adam Schafer]

It changes your recruitment patterns.

[Jen]

It's not just Chalene because all these menopause doc, all these hormone doctors now.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Are walking around with low hanging fruit. Fruit. It's like I can. And so I, so I. Because I understand from the dot, right.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm a doctor, they want to simplify everything.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I know that 80% of people are not going to strength train three times a week. So what I can tell this client who has got borderline osteoporosis right now is I just want you to walk here when you do your walk that you already do every day, wear a vest. And that alone. The study shows what. How beneficial that would be. And so it's low hanging.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah. It's annoying though. It's stupid because they're all ignoring the studies that show the absolute superiority. The reason why a weighted vest will add some bone density is because of the, the weight, the resistance. You know what does that. Way better strength training. Way better. Way better.

[Jen]

Well, the only.

[Tony Robbins]

Do way less work with strength training and you'll get more bone density.

[Sal Di Stefano]

The problem is that the doctors aren't doing this. The, what they should be doing, even the ones that even recommend the vest, is they should be saying that in a perfect world, this is what you do. Nothing is going to reverse this better than strength training a couple times a week, week. This is what I do at the bare minimum. If you can't do that, then you do this.

[Jen]

But what I'm saying is even at the bare minimum is probably not a good idea to wear the weighted vest because of what it does, especially with middle aged women. So, which is interesting is because right now the rage is with middle aged women wearing these weighted vests. And the fact, and they're saying, because then you're, you're, like you said, you're getting more bang for your buck. You're, you're burning more calories, you're adding resistance to what you're already doing. So you're intensifying your workout. But then you're more prone to the plantar fasciitis, the knee problems, the hip problems. The only person besides that man I met at this wellness place is Stacy Sims. Do you know who she is? Who was saying to me when I was asking her on my podcast, I was saying, like, what do you think of these vests too? She's like, it's way better to just hold two heavy weights and walk with these heavy weights. I kind of like farmer walks even, because, because least it's balanced. Because what you're doing with these weighted vests is like it's pushing down on your shoulders, right? Compressing your body, number one, right? It's not doing anyone any favors, right? Especially if you're not a fit person.

[Tony Robbins]

Just walk. You don't need to put anything on. Just walk. You don't need to hold a dumbbell. And when you strength train, strength train. Look, here's another reason why they're causing problems is when people walk with a weighted vest, what they're doing is they're walking to fatigue, okay? They're walking till they get tired, okay? Fatigue breaks form down. Proper strength training is about technique and form and what we always communicate rest periods. We always communicate rest periods. And you train with perfect technique and practice the lifts. I don't Want you lifting. So in other words, I'm not doing squats to hammer my legs. I'm doing squats to get good at squats. That's what gets you good results. If I go into the hammer my legs, my technique's gonna be off just enough to cause problems. Yeah, I'm just, it's just a means.

[Sal Di Stefano]

To answer and to support what, what Stacy Sims is saying is that like when we teach a farmer walk, part of teaching a proper farmer walk is the, is the posture and the way you walk. Like we put emphasis on reinforces you're the way you step. It's not just like grab this and go walk forward. It's like, no, chest up high, shoulders back and down, tuck your chin, walk and then carry the weight. And that is incredibly valuable because you're also working on your posture, your core stability and you're building strength. Strength. Whereas you just throw a vest on somebody who's got their headphones on or is gabbing on the phone, their posture is rounded shoulders. And then now you're pulling this weight on top of yourself.

[Jen]

That's my problem. Exactly. So then you're PA Then you have all these other ailments that are happening. So this is the problem with social media though, right? Because you see one person doing it crazy and then it just, it spreads like rapid fire. And now you see every middle aged, anyone over the age of 40, they're wearing a weighted vest like while they're just talking like walking. They're wearing them to work, they're doing it at their desk, they're wearing it around their house. And I'm one of those nimrods that was joined the crew and, and like until I had my own.

[Tony Robbins]

You should just always ask us. I don't know why you do anything like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Slightly better than waist training.

[Tony Robbins]

Just call, just send me a text.

[Jen]

Hey, what do you think of this fitness training? I really honestly. Should I have another one for you? And this might be controversial, right? Because we, it's another huge thing. And I know we just a little bit talked about it was protein. Yeah, right. Do you think people are overdoing it now with protein? Because all you hear about is protein, protein, eat more protein. Protein. I went to this show at Expo West a few. Adam, you were there. And literally every product I saw was just infused with protein. I'm talking protein pretzels, protein hot dog, protein shoes. Like wherever someone can stuff protein. They're just, just.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's because of the, it's, it's the demand for it now because that we are. We're more aware than we've ever been on how important it is to get these upper limits. And the majority of people don't. So now all these companies are smart and they're infusing all these carb. Carb treats with protein. So they're more desirable, they're more marketable.

[Tony Robbins]

Here's the deal.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But there's most people under eat protein.

[Tony Robbins]

Here's the deal. Okay. Don't eat heavily processed foods. Do you know what falls under that category? Protein pretzels. All that protein muffins, protein crackers.

[Jen]

All that stuff is crap.

[Tony Robbins]

So. So. But prote in general, protein from whole natural foods. Eat it first, prioritize it. It helps burn more body fat, build more muscle, it improves satiety, improves insulin sensitivity. It's for most people, generally, not everybody. For most people, it's beneficial. Getting it in a bunch of supplements is a distant second place. And if you're getting it from a lot of real processes. Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And good luck overeating it if you do it through whole foods.

[Jen]

No, no. So basically, so eating whole food, protein stuff. But what I'm. I guess my question really is, I know protein's obviously very important, but are we under. Valuing other things like fiber? Because everyone's emphasizing protein. They're not emphasizing fiber or other. Or other micronutrients that are super important.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, I think they're undervaluing what Sal said, which is just eating whole foods, you get everything. Yeah. That's the beauty of like, that's why one of our favorite pieces of advice tell somebody is don't track, don't weigh, don't just eat whole foods. We'll tell clients a lot of times when they call in, they have all these questions about what to do, and we hear them out. And it's like, I could tell this person a hundred different things to do, but I bet you if I could just get them to eat whole foods for 30 days, I'll blow their mind. That right there will solve so many of these other issues that you're over complicating and thinking. So I think that's what's undervalued. I think it's undervalued. We've gotten. We're in this convenience of packaged food and infusing protein.

[Tony Robbins]

Here's what happens.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Just eat whole foods.

[Tony Robbins]

What happens is we learn the value of something and then predictably distort it with marketing. Yes. And predictably what happens is companies come out with processed versions of it. So it's like fiber is good for you. True. Fiber is very good for you. But what ends up following is high fiber cereal, high fiber crackers, fortified with fiber. Everything's fortified with fiber, right? This nutrient is good for you. Cool. Now they're throwing it in everything. So, so protein, good for you. Whole natural foods, protein from supplements. A distant second. What would I pick if I had to pick a supplement for protein? A pure protein powder. I'm not giving my clients protein pretzels to hit their protein targets. No, that's just a snack.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a better trend than low fat.

[Jen]

It's a junk food, basically, that I look at it as. I rather just eat a chocolate bar and just know it's going.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I mean, when you look at a protein bar, I remember the first time as a young trainer when I first did this and I flipped around a Snickers bar and I flipped around my nutrition or my protein bar bar. The only difference is the protein bar has 10 more grams of protein. I mean, everything else, the sugar, the fat, everything else is the same. It's really, it's really a Snickers bar with some protein in it.

[Jen]

Exactly. So you might as well just eat the chocolate bar and just call it for what it is and not, not, not trick yourself into thinking you're doing something healthy.

[Tony Robbins]

That's right.

[Jen]

Okay, I gotta run to the airport, you guys. I just saw. I have so many more questions. But you guys are coming back to la, right? Maybe not you, Justin, because I don't really speak with you as often, but we should make more of a habit.

[Tony Robbins]

Talk about working kids out. That's a great podcast.

[Jen]

I want to do that because I just looked at my, I was going to start and then I realized it's 3:15 and I gotta be at the airport. Can we do it again? I'll come back.

[Tony Robbins]

Okay.

[Jen]

Okay. Okay.

[Tony Robbins]

Always, always. We always say yes.

[Jen]

No, seriously, I, I, I definitely. Because you gave me some great information about the core. Like, you do know your stuff. I've never heard you speak about it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, there's a lot here. We'll, we'll unpack it.

[Jen]

Okay. To know. I would like that, that, I mean, I just remember you with the being be bold every time I saw you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

He's not just a pretty face.

[Jen]

Not at all. Okay, guys, thank you for being on my podcast in your studio and we're going to do this again next time soon, so thanks.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Awesome.