Episode 469: Tamsen Fadal: Breaking the Menopause Silence (100+ Symptoms Your Doctor Never Mentioned)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle – Episode 469: Tamsen Fadal: Breaking the Menopause Silence (100+ Symptoms Your Doctor Never Mentioned)

Introduction

In Episode 469 of Habits and Hustle, hosts Jennifer Cohen and Tamsen Fadal delve deep into the often-overlooked topic of menopause. Tamsen, a journalist turned menopause advocate, shares her personal journey, the extensive range of menopausal symptoms, and the societal stigma surrounding this natural life transition. Her insights are drawn from her bestselling book How to Menopause and a documentary that has reached audiences in over 40 countries.

Personal Journey and Awakening

Tamsen Fadal's entry into the menopause conversation was unplanned. Initially a journalist focused on evening news, Tamsen began experiencing unexplained symptoms such as severe brain fog and intense hot flashes.

• Breaking Point:

  [09:08] Tamsen: "I started out as a journalist for 30 years... One night doing the evening news in 2019, I had a brain fog and broke out in a severe hot flash. I didn't finish the broadcast and thought something was seriously wrong with my heart."

This incident propelled her to seek medical help, leading to her diagnosis with menopause—a revelation that came as a surprise given her relatively young age at the time.

Understanding the Multifaceted Symptoms

Contrary to popular belief that menopause is synonymous with hot flashes, Tamsen highlights over 100 symptoms that can affect various aspects of a woman's health and daily life.

• Notable Symptoms Discussed:

  • Burning tongue and itchy ears due to dryness.
  • Significant brain fog affecting memory and cognitive functions.
  • Joint pain leading to conditions like frozen shoulder.
  • Irregular periods and weight redistribution.

  [05:25] Tamsen: "There are estrogen receptors all over the body, so it impacts everything—from gums and teeth to dental problems I wasn't even aware were linked to menopause."

The Medical System’s Shortcomings

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the inadequate education and support women receive from the medical community regarding menopause.

• Lack of Medical Education:

  [17:03] Tamsen: "An OB-GYN has less than a month of learning about menopause. Many doctors aren't educated adequately on this critical phase of a woman's life."

• Women as Their Own Advocates:

  [17:08] Tamsen: "We don't have a choice but to be our own experts because many doctors simply aren't equipped to help us effectively."

Treatment Options and Lifestyle Changes

Tamsen emphasizes a holistic approach to managing menopause, combining medical treatments with lifestyle modifications.

• Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT):

  [38:35] Tamsen: "I decided to do HRT, and it was a game changer. It was very helpful with sleep, hot flashes, and night sweats."

• Non-Hormonal Treatments:

  [23:00] Tamsen: "There are non-hormonal options available that address various symptoms, and it's crucial for women to explore these alternatives if they can't or don't want to use hormones."

• Lifestyle Habits:

  [41:32] Tamsen: "Yoga is huge for me. Even 10-15 minutes in the morning helps with meditation and stress management."

  [28:48] Tamsen: "Strength training is essential for managing weight gain and maintaining muscle mass, which is particularly important as women age."

Impact on Personal and Professional Life

Menopause extends beyond physical symptoms, influencing relationships, workplace dynamics, and overall quality of life.

• Workplace Challenges:

  [25:07] Tamsen: "When I approached HR about menopause, they didn't even recognize it as a valid condition. It’s important for workplaces to create supportive environments, such as providing educational resources or accommodating physical needs like fans at desks."

• Relationships and Sexual Health:

  [34:53] Tamsen: "My libido was affected, leading to discomfort in my marriage. It's vital to communicate openly with partners and seek medical advice to address these changes."

  [35:37] Jennifer: "How many relationships have ended because women weren't aware that low libido could be a menopausal symptom rather than a lack of interest?"

Breaking the Stigma and Building Community

One of the episode's focal points is the societal stigma and shame associated with menopause, which Tamsen aims to dismantle through her advocacy.

• Shifting Perceptions:

  [13:48] Tamsen: "A woman in Miami openly declared she was in perimenopause, and it was empowering to see her embrace it without embarrassment."

• Importance of Community:

  [43:03] Tamsen: "Community is huge. I've built a support network that I cherish every day, and it's been instrumental in navigating menopause."

Practical Tips and Expert Insights

Drawing from her interviews with 42 experts, Tamsen shares actionable advice for managing menopause symptoms.

• Sleep Hygiene:

  [27:13] Tamsen: "Understanding the importance of a consistent sleep routine and managing light exposure can significantly improve sleep quality."

• Weight Management:

  [28:48] Tamsen: "Incorporating strength training helps combat belly fat and maintain muscle mass, which is crucial during menopause."

• Mental Health:

  [41:09] Jennifer: "How important is it to address mental health during menopause, especially when dealing with symptoms like brain fog and mood swings?"

  [38:21] Tamsen: "Focusing on what’s important and embracing a mindset shift has been key to overcoming the hurdles of menopause."

Conclusion and Call to Action

Tamsen Fadal’s journey underscores the importance of raising awareness about menopause, advocating for better medical education, and fostering supportive communities. Her book and documentary serve as crucial resources for women navigating this life stage, offering both information and hope.

• Empowerment Message:

  [50:18] Tamsen: "Every woman who listens to this podcast and shares the information can make a significant difference in someone's life."

Notable Quotes

• "Menopause isn't a moment; it should have been a conversation long ago."

  Tamsen Fadal [02:20]

• "We need to arm women with information so they can advocate for themselves effectively."

  Tamsen Fadal [18:16]

• "Yoga is my meditation."

  Tamsen Fadal [41:32]

Resources

• Book: How to Menopause by Tamsen Fadal
• Documentary: Available in over 450 cities and 40 countries
• Social Media: Follow Tamsen on Instagram @TamsenFadal and @HowToMenopause

Final Thoughts

Episode 469 of Habits and Hustle is a comprehensive exploration of menopause, breaking down myths, highlighting overlooked symptoms, and advocating for a supportive and informed approach. Tamsen Fadal’s candid conversation with Jennifer Cohen offers invaluable insights and practical strategies for women seeking to navigate menopause with confidence and grace.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[B]

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan living better and longer, there are very few non negotiables. One of them quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous. Momentous goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dietitians across the country. Here's the thing. They don't sell every supplement under the sun because they believe in nailing the basics, which with rock solid consistency. And those basics are protein and creatine. Momentous sources. Creapure, the purest form of creatine monohydrate available. An absolute must for both men and women who want peak physical and cognitive performance. So if you're serious about leveling up, go to livemomentous.com and use code Jen for 20% off. Just act now. Start today. Jen for 20% off livemomentous.com all right, you guys. We have Tamsen Fadal. Is that. How do you pronounce your last name? Yeah. Tamsen Fadel, who just wrote the book how to Menopause on the show. Her book quickly became a smashing success on the New York Times best selling list. It's a great book.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Your documentary is great. She's become now, I believe, kind of like one of the big faces in menopause. Not.

[A]

Not expecting to.

[B]

Yeah, not expected to.

[A]

Not a plan.

[B]

But sometimes God, you know, you make a plan. God laughs.

[A]

Right? That's so true. You know what? I have learned that in a big way.

[B]

Right. Like, did you ever think that this was going to be your life?

[A]

I was like, I am going to be a newscaster, and that's what I'm doing. And I would never. If you'd have told me that 10 years ago, I'd been like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Menopause.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Which is what I did five years ago. I didn't know.

[B]

And look at you now, because you're not.

[A]

There's such a need, though. That's the reason. That's why we're all. Everyone's like, why is menopause having such a moment? I said, it's not a moment. This is like, this should have been around for a long time.

[B]

I do feel, though, and I wasn't even sure if it was because of where I am in life, if it's. I'm only. Is that why I'm seeing so much about menopause? Or is it just. Is it having like a huge moment in the zeitgeist right now?

[A]

You know, that's what I thought. I was like, is it my algorithm that's doing this? It's just feeding it to me over and over. But look, I think somewhat that. But honestly, I really do think that this is a conversation because I'm hearing people of all ages come up and talk about it. And men too, talking about it and being very aware that it's out there. Yeah. That there's a conversation.

[B]

I think men are being. Men are probably are aware of it because the women that they're making them be. Yeah. Because it's. Because there's so much more. Like, I would say even like three years ago, I was seeing almost nothing about. About it. And then one day, like every third podcast we do now is about metapros. I know, it's like so weird.

[A]

You know what I mean? I get it. It's funny, I didn't realize, like, you know, early on we started the conversation. It was really. Cause I was trying to find help. That was really what it was. And now as we've gone along, I realized as I wrote the book, it was like, it impacts every area of your life. So it does make sense that the podcast you're doing, like, it has little touch points all over the place, whether it's workplace or how you work out or, you know, what you do with regard to mindset, it's kind of everywhere.

[B]

Well, also, I. When I. I didn't know this stat until your book, but like, wasn't it like 50% of the workforce are women who are. Who are in menopause or something like that? So that's a huge stat.

[A]

It's huge. We have a billion women globally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, in this menopause transition. 6,000 in the US alone come into menopause into this transition every day. And then you. If you look at the workforce, we have so many women in the workforce that are. That are older now, which is amazing. But also very aware of what they're going through or starting to be aware of it. And, you know, we've got to have them get access and get some help and some care. Cause there's some great things on the other side of it, but you gotta get the symptoms handled.

[B]

And there's so many Symptoms. Right. It's not just like this. Right. And I want you to talk about that because I think that people think, oh, hot flashes. And that's basically where it begins and ends. But there's so many. There's so many that you can be having that you didn't even think that it could be menopause. Right? Or perimenopause.

[A]

Well, yeah, it's like you play whack a mole with a kind of like, I'm stressed out. Okay, I'm going to go here. I can't sleep. I'm going to go here. I'm gaining weight. You know, hot flashes have always been like you said, the haha kind of like, oh, hot flashes, menopause. But. But we're seeing now because we know we have estrogen receptors all over our body. It totally makes sense. And so it impacts everything. It impacts your gums, it impacts your teeth. We had no idea until we set out doing that documentary that that was even anywhere near part of the conversation. And side note, I had lost a tooth a year before when we were in the middle of filming. So I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this?

[B]

Was it because of menopause?

[A]

Well, they say that it infects everything. Like you've got these estrogen receptors all over, so it makes sense. And I was talking about it with somebody and she's like, I know I'm having dental problems too. But, you know, the 34 symptoms are the ones kind of. I started talking about initially. And then there was a recent study done and it was right as the book was about to publish and I pulled back and added this to it, that there were a hundred plus recorded symptoms of menopause that had come from a researcher out of Canada. So I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want people to be upset that there's like a hundred, but it makes sense.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So what are some of the more unusual ones that people wouldn't even think about?

[A]

Yeah, that's a good question. Okay, so burning tongue, or your tongue feels like it's burning, like kind of a little tingly. Yeah. Itchy ears because of so much dryness all over. You know, brain fog. We talk about a lot now, but I don't think we had those words before. Like I would just stop in the middle of a sentence or go somewhere and didn't know why or lose something or couldn't find my keys.

[B]

That happens to me every day. My God.

[A]

I know. I feel like that's happened to me. My Whole life kind of.

[B]

I was gonna say, what, what part is just like kind of who you are?

[A]

I don't know. I mean, it's gotten worse, but it's now gotten better because I'm kind of on the other side, which feels really exciting because when I was middle writing the book, I was like, I need this thing to be brain fog proof because I can't remember anything right now. You know, joint pain is another one that I think women are not aware of. And so they get very frozen shoulder or something else with inflammation, which is really frustrating.

[B]

You know, it's really interesting. That's when I kind of figured, well, maybe I'm in perimenopause because I got a frozen shoulder.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I had no idea what I kept on.

[A]

Like, do you have any of the other. Oh, irregular periods. That's another one. Do you have the symptoms or do you know what your symptoms.

[B]

I had it for two and a half years. This frozen. I don't have it anymore.

[A]

Okay, good, good.

[B]

But I had it for a long time and I worked through it like, I kept on like, working, like working out, thinking I just hurt myself. And then one day I went to the doctor and he's like, you know what you have? You have frozen shoulder. And it's.

[A]

Well, whatever you're doing now, your shoulders are amazing. So.

[B]

Well, thank you. You better come on more often. I would love it. Oh, my God. I come here and work out with you anytime. I have a huge gym across the hallway. You can come over next time when we have more than 10 minutes to spend together.

[A]

We're going to be good.

[B]

Good. No, but like, it took forever and I didn't know that that was like a sign of, of perimenopause or. What's the difference between perimenopause and menopause? Just for people who are maybe haven't clued into this yet.

[A]

Yeah. So perimenopause is everything before menopause, and that's everything that happens before. You go 12 months without your cycle. So that perimenopause can be anywhere from four to seven to 10 years. So if you back it up a little bit. I know it's a long time. It's a long time of a lot of like, craziness of your hormones. You know, they're kind of all like roller coastery all over the place. But you know, menopause is at 12 months without a cycle, and then everything after that is considered postmenopausal. But that's kind of complicated. So Basically, you're menopausal anytime after that. But if you look at the average age, the average age of women in menopause in the US is 51. And so if you back it up 41, you could easily start that process. And some women started even earlier. I mean, there's some women that are in full blown menopause at, you know, 46. I was 48 when I got that, you know, first awareness of it. And so anything before that I thought was a result of, like, my divorce and, you know, and I didn't know what stress. And it wound up. It was perimenopause. It was crazy.

[B]

Well, that's what I find so interesting about how you're now the poster child for menopause. Right. Because. No, it's true. Because you're not a doctor, you're a journalist. And how you kind of backed into it is really interesting to me. Thank you. Do you want to share the story so people are listening?

[A]

Yeah. I started out as a journalist. I was a journalist for 30 years. It's so weird to say that, right? I'm like, 30 years, 30 years.

[B]

It sounds so long. I know.

[A]

And I was one night doing the evening news in 2019, and I was having a brain fog, but I didn't know what it was. But I had been having that for a while where I'd look at a word, I'd see the word, and I'd know the word habits, but I'd be like, I don't know what that is. It wouldn't come out of my mouth, and I would keep moving on. And so. And that would happen on and off, like, whatever the word wasn't habits, but whatever the word was. And then that particular night, I got this. Have you had Hot Flash before?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So this one, I mean, they're all different intensities, but this one was really super intense. And I didn't know what it was. And it just came from the core of my body. And I just broke out in a sweat everywhere. And I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna fall over. My heart was racing. And two of my coworkers, one of my coworkers walked me off the news desk. I didn't finish the broadcast. Somebody else did. And I went right down to the. To the bathroom floor. Cause it was the only place that was cool, you know, I was like, I just kind of like, I'm gonna pass out. And I thought maybe there was something going on with my heart. Cause that was where I was at. And so anyway, about 15, 20 minutes later, I left the station and I started. I was like, oh, my gosh, something happened. You know, the following week, I gotta figure out what's happening. And so I went to my gp, like, no, you know, maybe it's stress, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. I talked to another doctor and I was put on Lexapro. And so that was for, you know, antidepressant. But I was still having, like, weird stuff going on, and I was not sleeping. That was like a big one, which affects, as you know, everything. And I ended up going to an endocrinologist. And then my. My gyno gave me the results from the test, and it said, in menopause, dot, dot, dot. Any questions? And that was my note in my patient portal. So I was like, what? I can't be in menopause. I'm too young. But, you know, like, literally almost the average age. And then I wound up, like, doing this deep dive of like, I'm gonna handle this naturally. I've gotta figure this out. What am I gonna do? I lost my mom early to breast cancer, so I'd never had a conversation with her about it. And so that's how I set out to ask questions. Ended up on social media listing those symptoms. The original ones were, like, 34 of them. I wound up listing them and I got, like, all these different responses like, oh, my gosh, me too. And I didn't even have half the symptoms. I just couldn't believe there was so many.

[B]

Yeah, that's what's so amazing about it.

[A]

It's so amazing. And how are women. I just didn't understand it. And so I went to Instagram. When I went to Instagram, that's really when things were like, what is going on here? There's all these women not talking about that. And so I just kept answering their questions. I would research, they'd be like, I can't sleep, blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, okay, I'm going to answer this question. So I'd research it, get the study, put it up. It was very, you know, and that was kind of like my. During the day. I did that before I went to work and did the news. And I. Yeah, for years. And then I left my job 16 months ago to do this, you know, to full out. We had the documentary come out in October of last year, and then the book came out, you know, just recently.

[B]

Wow. So that's not that long ago.

[A]

Well, I was. It's that that conversation started like 20. In 20. 20 is when I started doing it, but 16 months ago is when I actually left.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, that's not that long. Sixteen months ago is not crazy.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

It's not that. And, like, what's so, like, again, fascinating to me. There's a couple things. The first thing is that I think that the problem is there's such a stigma. Like, you're like, being an aging woman in our society is like the kiss of death in every way, right?

[A]

It is. So, I mean, it's has been.

[B]

It has been.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's the stigma to say, oh, I'm in menopause. I'm having these menopausal symptoms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is like. I think for a woman, there's shame. So they just. Right. There's a lot of shame that people just don't want to talk about. And so it just gets pushed under the rug.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what I like about the fact that now there's so much, like, chatter about it.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

There is like, the shame is kind of, like, subsided now and where everyone. Everyone's screaming from the right of all. I mean, I'm doing this. I have that. Like, you.

[A]

It's so funny. I was in Miami, like, now it's been a couple of months, and this woman rolled down. My husband and I were crossing the street, and this woman rolled down her car window, and she was like, tamson, I'm in perimenopause. And threw her arm out the window, like, with a. And I went, oh, wow. Yay. And then my husband's like, what did she say? I said, she's in perimenopause. He's like. Like a club. And I said, I guess, sort of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was really funny, though, to.

[B]

It's so funny to me.

[A]

Isn't that crazy? It was. She was. But what made me really excited about that is that she was young and she was really, like, took it like it was a. Cool. Was fine. Like, it wasn't this. I don't want anyone to know, like, how I went into it and how a lot of us have gone into it. Like, oh, gosh, this is embarrassing. Because you're right. It's been a kiss of death.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's been like.

[B]

It's embarrassing.

[A]

Ageism and menopause and, you know, all this, like, all of it. Now what? Now who am I?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I think it's scary.

[B]

It's like kind of like a sign to a woman that she's old yeah, basically, like, you're basically done.

[A]

It's over. And so I think that's like, really what the conversation is moving toward is like, really looking at this timeline where we say, okay, we had our periods. Right. We're in our, you know, our reproductive years. And then we come over here and it's like, don't talk about it. It's just very quiet. And we can see that. What that silence has done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For a very long time. So I'm glad people are loud about it because I think we got a lot of making up to do.

[B]

Right. Like, is that kind of why you wrote the book in a way, to kind of have. Just to kind of be another voice for what it is and kind of give women who don't necessarily have the information information?

[A]

Yeah, I think a couple of reasons. Like, when I originally set out to do it, it was because there were so many questions that I was trying to answer and I couldn't. It's not like one or two things, you know, because no woman is the same. The symptoms you have or I have or any will always be different. And always. It's so unique. And so I think that because there were so many things to talk about in it, like just the symptoms themselves, and then that didn't even go into the lifestyle changes. Because when you think about it, if you're a woman that doesn't want to do hormones or can't do hormones, then you need to know what your options are. And that's not a lot of the conversation right now. It hasn't been. And so there's all the lifestyle aspect of things. So I interviewed 42 experts for the book, and I was excited about that because that's like, what I love to.

[B]

Do is really what you do for a living.

[A]

It is. And I love, like, hearing, you know, different viewpoints of things, but also, like, taking that information and distilling it. So it wasn't like, very dense. Cause I'm not a doctor and I, you know, I just can't do that. But I wanted it to also be brain fog proof, like women are. I kept thinking, like, the woman that's reading this is probably not sure what's about to happen to her or is sure what's happening to her and can't, like, even focus a little bit. Doesn't feel good, feels terrible, and wants to know there's some hope. And so that's kind of what I did with each one of the chapters and how I broke it up. So it starts out with explaining how we Got here, you know, from our past. And then talking about hormonal, non hormonal. And then we really move into, you know, the symptoms. Obviously, that was a big chapter of understanding what those all mean. And then the rest of it is where it impacts you past the doctor's office, it impacts us at work, in the boardroom, in the bedroom, it impacts us in relationships, it impacts us in. When it comes to mindset, when it comes to our bodies, our closets, our. All of that. All of that is impacted. And so it was important for me to just hit upon those things. Cause. Cause I kept hearing from women, like, my skin's different, my hair's different, my body, like. And some women would weigh the same, but their body distribution of fat would be different.

[B]

The composition, their body composition.

[A]

It's been really hard for a lot of women. And I understand it. So I wrote it. I was like, well, there's no what to expect when you're not expecting or in menopause. So I'm writing that book. So it's a how to guide.

[B]

It's great. And then.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

What were some of the things that you gleaned from the experts that you had that was surprising to you?

[A]

Well, I think. You know what, I want to go back to the other question you asked because it'll answer this one too. One of the reasons that I really, like, went in hard on this is because I think women have to be their own experts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With this. And we don't have a choice because a lot of doctors were not educated, and some are. Some are very, you know, not educated. 100%. 100%.

[B]

Did you. I find that still, like, MDs are not like, I've been to three MDs and they're all like, oh, you're fine.

[A]

Like, I totally believe that.

[B]

So what. So what's that? What are you supposed to do with that?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Well.

[A]

And that's what this was for. That's really what it was for. And so a lot of them, it's not doctor's fault, but they did not learn this in medical school. Most of them, especially not in different disciplines. And so that was very concerning to me that an OB GYN has less than a month of learning about this time in a woman's life that didn't even make sense to me. And two, because we have so many women that are dealing it so quickly, not enough of those doctors to go around. Luckily, we have telehealth now, but there's still a lot of women that don't have Access, like they need to know what's going on so they don't feel like they're going crazy. So just the low hanging fruit is to like get the information that was really what this was for. And so women could feel like they could take charge. So if they do go into a doctor's office like that, and the doctor's like, oh, this is just what happens when you age.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or, you know, the symptoms aren't that bad. So if they're not not that bad, I wouldn't go on hormone therapy. I mean, these are the things that we hear, women are hearing every day. So I wanted women to feel really empowered, to go, you know what? That's not okay. I'm either going to another doctor or that's not okay. Here's why it's not okay. And so that they have actual resources and references. Like the reference section is like that thick in the book. But only because if, if somebody wants to go into more detail, I want them to be able to do that.

[B]

Right. I think all we, I think the medical system is so broken.

[A]

I agree with you.

[B]

Right. I agree with you that you need to be your own advocate for everything.

[A]

Across the board, right?

[B]

Across the board.

[A]

Yeah. Not just, not just menopause, but across the board. And I never want to blame doctors because I. No doctor gets into this field of these hours in education and debt and all that, you know, to, to not help. But I do think that the system is broken. And so I do think that in any way that we can arm women with something that can help them right away instead of saying, hey, we're going to try to do another study in 20 years and maybe we'll get you, you know, get your granddaughter some help. You know, women now need help.

[B]

Well, one of the big problems is that I think you do talk about this, that there was a study about hrt, right. Hormone replacement therapy. It's dangerous. So then so many women are fearful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Of going on this, doing it. And so really, like, besides doing that, like, you can make some light, you can exercise, you can do a lot of strength training, all those, those things that can help.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it doesn't take you over the, like, it doesn't kind of like push that, you know, the, the. What do you call that?

[A]

The, the, the needle or the.

[B]

It doesn't push the. No, but I was gonna say push that thing up the.

[A]

Oh, rock up the hill.

[B]

Yeah, rock up the hill. It's like, this is my, this is my, this is my brain right now.

[A]

You see no, I've got the other half of you. I've. I've got you.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

I totally understand.

[B]

This is exactly what happened. I get a loss for words. This is another great symptom. Yeah.

[A]

Another great symptom. Yeah, you're right though. It really doesn't. And I, and I, I think that I don't want women to feel discouraged either going into this time in life or because I see them like, really doing some amazing things. Like, I see women during this time getting this whole new sense of freedom about themselves and this whole new sense of purpose. And like they're really unstoppable. It is incredible what I've seen women do. And so I do want to try to help them get past those symptoms. And the hurdle, it's the hurdle of all of it. It's like the symptoms, it's the fear, it's the mindset shift that we have to have. And you know, I, I watched my mother and, and I didn't realize that she went. I didn't realize that when you had breast cancer and she had a double mastectomy and chemotherapy, she was pushed into a medical menopause. I don't know if she ever knew that. And so that breaks my heart, the fact that like, she would sweat all the time, she'd always be hot. And we were like, why are you so hot all the time?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And everyone would laugh and she would laugh. And it broke my heart when I realized about three years ago and I was talking to my dad and my brother. Cause I have a very small family and we're really close. And I. And my dad said, do you think that your mom was in menopause? And I said, well, did she ever mention it? And he said, never. And I said, I actually don't know if she knew or not, but I definitely know she suffered alone. And so I really made a pact kind of to myself that if, you know, there was something that I could do, that this was going to be it. And so we did the documentary and it's now been seen in like 450 plus cities and 40 plus countries.

[B]

It's a great documentary.

[A]

Thank you. But it's amazing, like the conversation that happens afterwards with it. Right. You know, and I think it's a bit. It's why you have those conversations.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, of course, of course. I also very curious and I like to know and, and let me tell you something honestly, I'm somebody who is curious and asks all the. Ask questions to experts all the time. And I'm still sitting here perplexed. Like, if you don't do hormone therapy, what are the options? Like, I think there's not much you can do except like, you know, like white, like kind of white fist this thing. Because that's the only thing that really, I think, does move the needle besides strength training and all these.

[A]

Yeah, well, all the, all the lifestyle changes.

[B]

Yeah, all the lifestyle changes.

[A]

You know, there's. There are some new advances in medicine, obviously, and there's a couple of things that, like, I always want women that can't or don't want to do it because right now we went from like 38% of women in this country that were on hormone therapy back in 2002 down to like 4%, maybe we're creeping up to 5 now. And so. And those are like the, like the numbers from about a year or so ago when we, when we did the filming. So I look at it, there, there is a prescription that is for. It's a non hormonal, to help with hot flashes. But that's what it helps with is hot flashes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There is vaginal estrogen that is pretty safe for all women and that's helpful for painful sex because that's, you know, just another area that really is terrible for women to be dealing with. And then, you know, yes, the other things are those lifestyle changes. So I'm just hopeful that some of this research shows different ways to go about things. And when we did the book, we. I made sure we did a lot of the non hormonal options that are out there. Only because I kept thinking to my mother, like, what would, what would she do? Would she be. They were like, good luck, you know, it'll only be 10 plus years of suffering and then you'll get past it, hopefully. So I kept thinking about her when I was writing that because, you know, we're talking about a lot of women that still are not comfortable or can't do it.

[B]

100%. That's what I think. That's what I really liked about the book as well, is because of the, because of the non hormone. Because I think people are very, I mean, 100%. And you can say all you want that they're, you know, the fears are there. It was overblown. It was not. It was. It was done with.

[A]

Data didn't support it.

[B]

The data didn't support it. It was a selective study, all the things. But psychologically, people can still be very scared to go on hormones.

[A]

I'm glad you said that because I agree with you. We could Talk till we're blue in the face. But the truth of the matter is, is that if you have a set belief despite any of the data, and look, I put a lot of those references in the back because I am not. I'm not a doctor. And it was really important for me to go deep into that research and make sure that we answered all questions and made sure that women felt comfortable and made sure that women could do the reading of it themselves. But if you don't feel comfortable with that, there's nothing I'm gonna say that's gonna change your mind. Maybe, but not everybody. And so I wanted women to be aware of, you know, what that study was, where we are today, in 2025. I mean, that study was 23 years ago. Now. I know, you know, it's. But imagine how taken to take root. So it has taken root down here. And to think we're just going to be able to like, you know, to toss that aside in. In a few years. It's not going to happen. So we've got to get those women some help.

[B]

I agree. Have you noticed in your findings, though, that lots of it's mostly functional medicine doctors who are much more progressive.

[A]

Right.

[B]

With other things versus MDs like OBGYN, right?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that it all comes down to. To what? Educating. And, you know, a lot of those doctors are educating themselves. I sat down with one when I was in Chicago, actually, and she had moved into more functional medicine. And she said, you know, I really did this studying myself about all of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it wasn't just menopause, but it was just a little. It was everything. And I think, you know, when you're talking about root causes, that is extremely important, especially during this time, because there are gut issues, there are thyroid issues, there are cholesterol issues. There's a lot of things that come up during this time, along with all this other stuff of being a woman.

[B]

Right. What are you going to. So how about. Okay, so in the workplace, because you talk about that. What can people do in the workplace? Like, what is the options?

[A]

I mean, right. You know, like in some workplaces, which is great. Some of the benefits will cover hormone therapy or at least hormone. You know, go to a place and get a coaching, whether it's telehealth or something else, but not enough. And so I think, you know, if you're in the workplace and you were dealing with those kind of symptoms and you feel like you're comfortable enough to go in there and address it with hr. That's what I did. And unfortunately at the time, they're like, what's a, what's a menopause policy? Like, it wasn't even. Yeah, it didn't even have, like, I was gluing words together, you know, and I said, well, they did it in the uk.

[B]

You're like, wow, like Charlie Brown. Like, you're talking a whole new language there.

[A]

It was. I was like, here it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the UK really has been very advanced with a lot of things way, you know, way ahead of where we've been for a long time. And hopefully, you know, we catch up. But I think if you are willing or able to go talk to HR and try to do anything, whether it is finding a way to have group conversations for women's groups, finding a way to educate women, or bring a speaker in there just to talk so you feel a little more comfortable and then obviously benefits. I mean, there's other things like, can everybody have a fan at their desk? You know, if you're working in a factory, can you change uniforms? There's some actual real changes because we all work in a different environment. We all work in different kind of workplaces. Not everybody is sitting in a corner office. So we have to take that into consideration too, when we're talking about these kind of changes.

[B]

What are the. Some of the things that are top of mind that you really like I said before, I'm gonna go back to the question from the experts, the doctors, the people that you and 42 people you. You interviewed. What were some of the things that really surprised you the most? And that also. That's the first part of the question. And then the second part that you found to be like, really helpful thing, tips for other people that people may not, when they listen to this podcast that they can maybe like, oh, I never take away.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think that for me, the surprising part was obviously that lack of education that scared me quite a bit, but made me really determined. I think that the other thing was the fact that, you know, we have so much research, it hasn't been done on a lot of things. Women weren't even part of studies until the mid-90s, like, mandated to be part of studies. I thought that was just crazy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then I think my other concern was the dismissal of women. You know, really like thinking that women can. Can suffer through it and not realizing there's those long term health ramifications that are possible when it comes to bone and brain and heart health. And so that, that scared me quite a Bit because I didn't realize that when we were talking about treating menopause, we weren't just talking about these, like a thing, these symptoms we're talking about, we're talking about long term longevity, you know, health span. So that's one area. And then I think that some of the tips that I thought were, were helpful really came in the area of sleep. Sleep was a huge area that I was gonna just like make it a chapter along with brain. And then I realized like, that was a chapter that I really leaned into quite a bit. Cause it's where women suffer, you know, along with weight, weight gain and belly fat. But sleep was a place where people were really, really suffering. And so to understand, you know, the importance of that, sleep hygiene, a sleep routine, understanding how important it is to get up in the morning and get moving, how important it is to make sure that you're in bed at the same time as best as possible and getting up at the same time. Light and how light impacts us in so many different ways.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I didn't understand how important all that was. And when I did the initial interview, I'm like, oh, there's so much more. So I went back and did another interview with another specialist because I, I really do believe that if women can at least get something handled, and that's not always easy because our hormones are everywhere fluctuating and we wake up in the middle of the night and then we're wide awake at 3 o' clock in the morning for no reason. But I feel like if at least they can start tackling that part, which you can do right away, then at least you have a fighting chance to start feeling a little bit better. And then belly fat's another big one too.

[B]

Belly fat's a huge one.

[A]

Huge one. It's a huge one. And I, I see a lot of incredible experts out there that are focused on fitness for women over 40, which is, I think is really, really important because a lot of women didn't go to the gym and do weights. We did cardio. We stayed away from the boy weight room. Yeah, we were like, no, we're going to sweat it out until, you know, we did aerobics. We do aerobics on that dang step.

[B]

Yeah, you know, step aerobics, that blue step.

[A]

So I do think that there's a, there's a learning curve there that we, we have to have.

[B]

There's a lot of, you know, the thing is there's so much like cross information. Right.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

You know, people, you know, Cold plunges, for example, is. Is the thing.

[A]

You have one.

[B]

Yeah, I do have.

[A]

Oh, gosh, that's awesome.

[B]

I. But I'll tell you something. I had a doctor on here, Dr. Stacy Sims was on here and she said I really. She's got some such great information. And you know what I liked about her was she's very. She was contrary to all the. A lot of the, like the noise out there, right? Yep, yep. And like to be. She said that the cold plunge for women is actually not beneficial.

[A]

I know, I know, right?

[B]

This. It stresses your body too, which didn't.

[A]

Bother me that much because I don't really love it.

[B]

Believe me, I was thrilled. I wanted. I wanted an excuse.

[A]

Cover yours up.

[B]

Right, right, right. Not to do it.

[A]

Let's find like five more things that she said.

[B]

I've got a million. I wrote down.

[A]

I'd like to ask more of them.

[B]

I have Soul cycle.

[A]

Well, that's the other thing. Like some of the hits and stuff that a lot of women, you know, have thought was great. There's a lot of people that are saying like, no, that's not necessarily where you need to focus.

[B]

Well, because like heavy car, like all the spinning and the. And my God, what we can to ourselves because number one, it breaks down your muscle or your lean muscle mass 100%. And especially as you get older, you need more muscle. So it's like doing the. It' doing the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish.

[A]

Well, and I also think about women that have not been offered hormone therapy too, because there is a whole generation, if not more, that never got that option.

[B]

Y let's quickly talk about a health issue that affects almost all of us. Fiber deficiency. Did you know that 95% of people don't get enough fiber in their daily diet? I was shocked when I learned this because fiber is truly the foundation of overall wellness. It's not just about keeping our digestion smooth and regular, although of course that's super important. But fiber also nourishes the good bacteria in our gut. It supports a balanced microbiome, helps us feel fuller for longer, which makes managing our weight even easier. And it even improves our energy by optimizing nutrient absorption and stabilizing our blood sugar. That's why I am really excited to share Biome's daily prebiotic fiber with you. This product makes meeting your daily fiber needs simple, enjoyable, and super effective. With 8 grams of fiber per serving plus gut friendly prebiotics, it's designed to close that fiber gap in your diet and Support your digestion and gut health every single day, and it fits effortlessly into your routine. Just mix it in the morning smoothie or tea or coffee or afternoon snack, and you're good to go. I love that it's so easy to prepare and you can incorporate with literally every busy lifestyle. So if you want to make getting fiber easy, Visit Biome, that's B I O M E.com and enter code Jennifer20 for 20% off. Your first order of daily prebiotic fiber. That's biome.com code Jennifer, 20 for 20 off. Grab it today. So, you know what I saw in the book when I. When I was, like. When I was, like, putting my little, you know, those little dog tags, whatever. You did a big chapter on relationships. Divorce.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why did you do that?

[A]

Well, I went through a divorce in my early 40s, which I'm assuming I was already in that area of perimenopause, but didn't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I was dating my now husband in perimenopause into. And I got married in menopause. And I realized that there were a lot of questions like that I had sex, wasn't comfortable. I had no libido. I got married and I was like, I don't have any libido. And it's. It's really upsetting because you're like, oh, my gosh, is it the relationship? Is it us? Am I not attracted to him anymore? Is he not attracted to me? It was very unsettling. And then I also was thinking about the fact that, like, wow, what if I was going through this dating? Because I actually did have, like, a real drive with him when I was in perimenopause, I hit menopause, and I was like, that was it. So I really felt like it was important to lean into that and also not to feel uncomfortable with it. And I think sometimes that we reserve sex for this, like, whimsical fun, you know, like, it's fun. It's young, when we're young and then we're older and we don't have that conversation. And I think it's a real shame. And I think that a lot of women don't feel sexual or sexually attractive or feeling, you know, like, you know, they're in their hot girl area. And so I really wanted to. I really wanted to, like, lean into that a little bit. And so, you know, I interviewed Emily Morse. I interviewed a number of different doctors. We talked about testosterone. We talked about vaginal estrogen, we talked about lube. We talked about things that, like, we shouldn't just be talking about as, like, toys, you know, we should really be talking to them as part of a bedroom routine. And so also that women can know their own body too, because I think that that's the beautiful part of sex during this time, is that we know ourselves as well. And it's not just like, I hope he knows what he's doing or hope she knows, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that that's important that we know ourselves in a relationship, because.

[B]

I found, I. I like, I found that really interesting and probably very smart. Right. Because if you're someone who's new to dating again, like, in this. In that. In this stage of life, right. And you are going through this, right. Like, you don't. Like, you wouldn't know the difference between. If it's just a symptom, like, oh, your libido's low, or am I just not interested in this person? And then, like, the whole relationship can go, you know, basically blow up.

[A]

Yeah. And I. And it. And it really is, I think, very under talked about. And I think it's really uncomfortable. And I don't know the last time I've ever been in a doctor's office where they were like, okay, how are you feeling? How's your weight? How's your sex life?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No one has ever asked me that.

[B]

No.

[A]

And because we make it be like, well, that's a private thing. Well, no, because that is all tied up in everything that we're going through right now, especially that it's, you know.

[B]

And also, I shouldn't even say just like dating. Right. Because if you're married forever.

[A]

Yeah, of course, that's another thing.

[B]

Right. And so it affects, like, you know, like, I wonder how many relationships, kidding aside, have ended.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Right. Because, like, the woman's not interested anymore. And it's not because the guy doesn't.

[A]

Understand or the partner doesn't understand. Yeah.

[B]

Right. And they don't. Or they think it's because, like, there's no interest anymore or that, like, they're, They're. The romance is gone, whatever it is.

[A]

Romance is dead. But who knows?

[B]

But maybe it's just that very easily. I bet you a lot of people are not even keeping that, like, are not kind of cognizant that that could be a situation.

[A]

I don't think so. And I think it's very. I'm sure it's very prevalent. And, you know, there was a study that was done, and I can't remember the year, but it was talking about the Number of women in midlife that were filing for divorce. And I thought that that was very interesting initiating. And much higher than men. Much higher than men. And so I was really aware of some of those conversations. And I think there's so much more to do. But I wanted to touch on it. Cause I thought it was important to bring that up and to also talk about, you know, with. I wish I had done another chapter on this. And I just couldn't. But I put it in this one. I did, like, a love letter to my partner. And so I really wanted. And that's what Emily read, actually, in the bookstore. But I thought it was really important for partners who might not have, you know, they might not have had the conversation before, to be able to hear something of, like, what a woman is thinking or going through during this time. I thought that was really important because I don't. I don't think it's easy to verbalize. And I think it's really difficult to communicate sometimes. And you can't even communicate it with yourself.

[B]

Right. And I think that's. Again, it comes down to, like, not understanding the shame.

[A]

Not understand what we're going through. We're just learning. We're on a learning curve right now.

[B]

Exactly. And I think, like, you know, it's become. It becomes like one of those things like, you know, your husband or boyfriend, whatever, is like, oh, yeah, she's like, she's on her period or she's dealing with this. It's very much like, kind of like it's hormones. Exactly. And it's like, not taken seriously.

[A]

Yeah, not at all.

[B]

Definitely not taken seriously.

[A]

Not at all. It's not taken seriously. And it's also been kind of very mocky. And I think that that's what we have to get beyond. And I think the media has not done a great job of that. I mean, we didn't talk about any of these kind of studies. I don't remember any of these kind of studies. I remember studies when I was on the air doing the news about heart, about weight gain, about risk of stroke, Alzheimer's. All the time. Food groups, all the, you know, all the different. Like, you should eat eggs. You shouldn't eat milk. You should have all that stuff. I don't remember talking about perimenopause.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Menopause. I don't remember talking about any of that stuff.

[B]

No.

[A]

And so it's not sexy. It's not sexy. I don't know if it, you know. Well, now it is.

[B]

Well, but. But it was exactly. Now it's a little more sexy. So what is your routine? How did you kind of overcome those symptoms and kind of go through menopause in such a good way? Like, what did you do?

[A]

Well, I don't think I did in such a good way. I think it was. It was a struggle for a long time. You know, I had some really, like, dark days that I didn't even know were perimenopause. I think that.

[B]

But you got over the hump, I guess.

[A]

Yeah, I got over the hump.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I really had to focus on what was important. Like, I did. I did the typical. I don't need to sleep. This is. It gets fine. I can push through everything. And then I realized one day, like, you.

[B]

You're. This is.

[A]

This is it. Like, this is the time that's gonna set you up as. More. I studied this for the next 30 to 40 to 50 years, so you better figure it out, girl. Again, I really. I really did have to stop a little bit and refocus what was important and especially past 51, because that's when I lost my mom. So I didn't really have that roadmap of what. When she was 51, what. That looked like past 51 years old. And so, you know, I did decide to do hrt, and I do. And it was a big game changer.

[B]

Huge.

[A]

Very helpful with sleep. Very helpful with hot flashes. Very helpful with night sweats, which were a big problem. I really did change workout routine, like, immediately as soon as I realized what was going on with strength training, though. I always really liked lifting weights, but I thought I had to do cardio to, like, the crazy, you know, amount. And then, you know, I did focus on my sex life quite a bit. I really did. It was not a. That wasn't like, okay, I'm doing some vaginal estrogen and lube, and everything's fine. Like, it really did have to take conversation and commitment to it and really kind of, you know, figuring that out, being open and honest about conversations that were uncomfortable.

[B]

Right. Well, I told you before, like, Emily is, like, one of my best friends.

[A]

So, like, you're like, yeah, you've been.

[B]

Having this conversation forever. No, she. She. She talks about this with me all the time. And I'm always like, I. I hear it all the time.

[A]

Yeah, it's like.

[B]

You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, God. You know, it's like. It's like, because, you know, I always laugh and joke around with her because it's part of her vernacular that's how she talks. Like, we went on this trip. Her and I went on a biking trip to Croatia. And like, every. With, like, a bunch of people we don't know. We didn't know them. We had to have dinner with them every night. And, like, her wording and her verbiage is very different than what, like, a normal person would be. It was hilarious. It's great. It's great. So funny. So funny.

[A]

Well, it's funny to watch how people are like, what?

[B]

I know her tongue, though. Oh, yeah.

[A]

She has something. We were in Barnes and Noble, and we were like, this is. It was at the Grove, and it was a few weeks ago, and we were in the middle, like, where you are. You're kind of, like, by the. You know, I think there was, like, cookbooks, and I don't know what else was behind us. And we went to do the Q and A, and people are like, I want to talk about my sex life. And I was like, great. And then we're like, Ellen and I are talking, and I kind of looked around. I was like, we're in the cookbook section of the bookstore. Is that okay that we're like. But it was great.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[A]

And the store was awesome about it. They love. You know, it was just. It was really wonderful to see it so open. And they came up afterwards, they were like, thank you. And I was like, no, thank you for.

[B]

I feel like all of it, like, the sex stuff, the sex talk is becoming a little bit more mainstream. It's still uncomfortable, though, like, to a lot of people, me included. Not because of anything. It's just, like, I'm not used to it.

[A]

Except I don't think any of us were.

[B]

Nobody is.

[A]

You know, none of us were. And, you know, I do think that paying attention to mindset with all this is really, really important because I didn't have any way to control stress. I didn't pay attention to any of that stuff. I was like, oh, yeah, okay. I'll have time to meditate. Sure.

[B]

Exactly. I just.

[A]

I didn't have those. I didn't have those habits built in, and so I had to learn them.

[B]

So what are your habits? Like, what do you do every day now?

[A]

Yoga's huge for me. Even if I can do 10, 15 minutes, like, that is my. That is my meditation. Really? That's every day? Well, if I do it, it's short. It can be very, very short. But that's what I do in the morning. Okay. Like, I go outside and walk in the morning first thing Come back and do that, and then I'll decide if I'm lifting weights. But I can't do, like, three hours of working out. Like, I don't. I just don't have that. And I don't have that. I don't want to do that. I don't want it to be where I'm not looking forward to something. Lifting is huge for me. And then with stress management, I. You know, I really have gotten into a place where I understand what I can and can't do and understand my focus. It takes a lot of focus for me nowadays, different than what it used to. It takes a little more brain power different than what it used to, but I've embraced that part of it, and I let myself, you know, be okay with it. I'm okay if I have to go to bed early. I'm okay if I, you know, if I just can't be perfect and I can't be all the time. Right.

[B]

No, I know. It's also. Having grace with yourself, I think, is a big piece of it. Yeah, it's huge.

[A]

I was saying to a friend, I was like, yeah, we were at a hotel, and I said, I'm just gonna go to bed early because I just really need to, like. I need to, like, take care of myself tonight. My old me would be like, what time do you want to go downstairs? I'll totally go to dinner. And I'd be dreading it the whole time. Yeah, I would hate doing it. I'm so. You know, I'd be like, why did I agree to this? I would be so resentful. And now I'm like, nope, I'm not doing it anymore. And that comes with age. I don't feel like that's.

[B]

I think that's an age thing.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

I still get myself in that situation, though.

[A]

I do, too often. So you can call me whenever, and I'll give you permission to cancel.

[B]

So this is why I love Emily. Because, like, you know, like, we make plans a hundred times, and we never do half of them because we're too tired. But it's great. It's a real friend that you're like, I'm not interested. I don't want to do it. You know?

[A]

And that's another thing I want to say real fast. Community is huge. During this time, I think I have built a community of people that I feel, like, really so, so lucky every day to have around me. So lucky and keep meeting new ones like you, you know, I feel like I'm gonna know you for a long time.

[B]

I hope so.

[A]

You're adorable. Yes. I feel very lucky about that. I think that's great.

[B]

You know what I was saying earlier when we're like, oh, what was I. What were we talking about? Yeah, we were talking about the cardio. We're talking about heart. Like the crazy cardio that we would do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we thought we had to do that to keep the weight off or to, like, you know, part of the. And it.

[A]

I mean, I had an eating disorder. Then I read a true one where I would not eat or I'd eat and I'd go to the gym and I had to work it down, like every. I wrote down calories, like gum. I wrote everything. Like, even everything until what time?

[B]

Until when in life.

[A]

I got really sick. I was 20. How old was I at that point? I think it started around 26. I had moved to Orlando. Maybe I was 28 by now. And I was. I had gotten sick, like a flu or something. And I couldn't stand up, and my father had to come carry me down two flights of stairs.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Can you imagine that? Yeah. And I had, like, you know, I was brought to the hospital and then they put me into therapy. And that's really. That's where therapy really started for me. And it was a game changer.

[B]

It was.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, it took a long time, you know, it took a long time, but I know that it was because of how I. You know, that mindset of what we learned and what we thought was important.

[B]

And it's so hard to unravel that.

[A]

Oh, it's still always there. It's always back there. It always kicks back there. But it is very hard to unravel. But I'm very, very clear of my why now. You know, my why is not skinny. My why is to be strong and to feel satisfied with that. You know what I mean? Versus never enough. I'm tired of the never enough. And that's what I feel like I did for a long time. Like, it's never enough. I gotta. More. Keep going more. And, you know, I don't feel like that anymore, I think, because also priorities.

[B]

Change as you get older as well, you know, they told you.

[A]

I don't. I don't. I have two bonus kids.

[B]

How did you guys meet, by the way?

[A]

Oh, gosh. So we met after I swore I would never get married again. Ever. Never ever get married again. And then I met him in Miami. He was at a conference for work. And I was hanging out at this hotel by the pool with a friend of mine.

[B]

And she.

[A]

She was part of the conference, but I had gone to see her, and she said she saw him. And she was like, this is Tamsen. This is Ira. And I was like, hey. And I kept going. And he went up to his hotel room to watch football. And then the girls that night called him down. They were like, you really need to. You know, he loves to travel. He's, like, really funny. And I was like, listen, I'm never getting married again. I don't want a serious relationship again. I've been through that already. I'm perfectly happy single. And he came down. He was, like, really charming and nice, but not, like, cheesy charming, like, just genuinely nice. And then he traveled long distance to come back and forth to see me for almost two years from. He was living in California now in Santa Monica, and I was in New York anchoring the evening news. And he would come back and forth. Yeah. And he would be like, hey, good, you want to go out this weekend? And I'm like, yeah, how about Sunday night? And this poor guy would spend the entire weekend in New York, and I would give him Sunday night. I didn't know. I. I thought he was just, like, back here for Sunday.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I was awful, I guess.

[B]

I love that story. Oh, my God, it's awful.

[A]

You're like that. I love it.

[B]

I do love it, because I think that's. That's really good. You don't want to, like. You don't want to be that available.

[A]

But I wasn't even trying not to be. I was just, like, completely not. I was refusing for myself to be any part of that, you know?

[B]

So he would just hang out in New York for the weekend?

[A]

Yeah, I guess, like, he would get a hotel, and that's because he was traveling back and forth for work, but on the weekends, he didn't have to be there. And so, anyway, so, you know, finally it started to get serious, and then we got a place together in New York, and now we go back and forth. So we're bi. Coastal, and. That's so cute. Yeah. He's so sweet. He's very funny.

[B]

So how long did you date before you got married?

[A]

Um, let's see.

[B]

This has nothing to do with menopause, by the way.

[A]

No, but it was during the menopause per. Menopause years.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It'll all count. Um, so he says that we only dated for. Let me think. We got married in 20, 21. And he says it was only, like, a few years because he didn't count the first years. Like, that wasn't dating. That was ridiculous. But we met in 2017 and we got married in 2021. So, you know, four years.

[B]

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. See, like you're living. You're a perfect example of someone who's living their best life in these years. Like, you're a great person, child.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah, he's, he, you know, he, he made it very easy because I, I said I want to walk the earth with him. Like, he's just so fun and like he's the first person I want to call, but not in like a cheesy way, like, but we just really have a great time together. So it's nice. And he's very patient. Like, I don't. Have you been on social media at all today?

[B]

Today? No, I haven't been. I've had 55 podcasts.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry. So there's this, there's this AI graphic everyone's making of themselves, like, of themselves in AI, like whatever they're. Whatever they like to do in mine, like menopause. So we made one of my husband and we posted it. Like, he's very serious businessman. So we posted it. But he's like, fine. You know, he goes, I did not approve this, like, jokingly. And everyone. He's just. Cuz he's so straight and serious. Like straight.

[B]

Good temperament though.

[A]

Yeah, he's very good. He's very good. He just tolerates it.

[B]

I love that he's got two kids. You said he does.

[A]

He has two adult kids who are wonderful. Really sweet. One is 30 and one is 32.

[B]

Not like it's my business or anybody else's, but I want to know, you know, inquiring. I don't have any secrets.

[A]

I don't have any secrets. Yeah. So we have a good time together. And I just, I love them. And I have a nephew who's going to be 14, so he loves my little nephew. And so it's nice, it's, it's fun. It's not what I expected. I didn't, you know, I thought I was like going to be alone with my chihuahuas the rest of my life. That's what I was, I was banking on.

[B]

And now look.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're living your best life here.

[A]

Talking to you about menopause.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I had no idea.

[B]

And like, who would have thought, like this whole. Which is why I love this. I love, like humans, the story behind it. Right. Like how.

[A]

Because we never know where things are going to go. We Try to, like, make these plans that, like, I'm definitely doing this and I'm definitely. None of my. Definitely is. You know, like, that didn't happen.

[B]

Totally make a plan. God. Laughs that's basically the story.

[A]

So too. And I think I look at, you know, so many of the women right now that are learning about this. I'm really grateful. Like, I'm grateful that they are starting to have resources. I'm grateful that the conversation is picking up and that there's help available for them.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

Thank you. By the way, thank you for staying longer. I know that. I know that this whole thing was a total cluster.

[A]

It was not. Stop apologizing.

[B]

I've stopped now because I feel. Because I feel bad. You were sitting out there and I.

[A]

No, I didn't.

[B]

I left.

[A]

I left and came back. So it's fine for good.

[B]

I'm way. I'm so happy that, like, you. You were able to stay longer.

[A]

No, I'm so happy I did and that you.

[B]

And that you came on the show because I really know you're a joy. And your book, I really. And, like, there's a bazillion menopause books out right now, but yours is truly exceptional and because I love when people compile the best information out there and. And drill it down in layman's terms.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

For the average person, it's the only.

[A]

Way I could remember it.

[B]

Well, that'. Problem. Because so. So many of these books are very medical and sciency and from one perspective. Right. So I like that you kind of. You kind of took the best of the best and kind of put it together and sandwiched it into a book. And I love that there's more awareness on this and it's becoming. It's. It's becoming less shameful because of people like you.

[A]

You're having podcasts and talking about it and sharing, and I think it's a really big deal. I mean, I don't think that, you know, any of us realize how much if one woman listens to it and then repeats it to somebody else or repeats it to somebody else or a guy is listening. It's. It makes a big differ. Really makes a difference.

[B]

It makes a difference. And I think it makes a difference when people speak to, like, to meet you where you are versus 100. Right. And you do a great job of all of that talking and explaining it.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

The book is called I have It Somewhere, But It's Not Around. It's okay.

[A]

I didn't bring it either. So it's fine.

[B]

Okay, so it's called how to Menopause. And Tamsin, you're great. Follow her on Instagram amsenfidel right. @ TAMSA V. And what else? Where else do people find you?

[A]

I need your arm routine. That's it.

[B]

I'll give that to you, too.

[A]

At Tamsa Vidal or you know, how to Menopause.

[B]

That's the it. That's where we are right now. That's where we are right now. Thank you so much.

[A]

Thank you. Bye.