Episode 471: Lance Armstrong: The Real Doping Story, $100M Loss, and His Venture Capital Comeback

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle

Episode Title: Episode 471: Lance Armstrong: The Real Doping Story, $100M Loss, and His Venture Capital Comeback
Hosts: Jen Cohen, Habit Nest
Release Date: July 29, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 471 of Habits and Hustle, host Jen Cohen sits down with legendary cyclist Lance Armstrong to delve deep into his tumultuous journey through professional cycling, the doping controversies that tarnished his legacy, his substantial financial losses, and his surprising resurgence in the venture capital world. The conversation offers a candid look into Armstrong's personal experiences, resilience, and the strategies he's employed to rebuild his life and career.

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Early Athletic Career and Transition to Cycling

Jen Cohen begins by expressing her long-standing interest in Armstrong's life trajectory and athletic prowess.

Jen [00:50]: "I really am fascinated by your whole trajectory of life, your personality..."

Lance Armstrong recounts his beginnings in swimming before transitioning to triathlons and eventually focusing on cycling.

Lance [05:09]: "Swimming was my first serious sport... Then I started doing triathlons and turned pro in triathlon at 15."

Key Points:

• Armstrong's exceptional endurance capabilities were recognized early on, leading him to pursue cycling over other endurance sports.
• At 17, he was selected for the junior World Championships team in Moscow, a significant milestone in his athletic career.

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Training for the Tour de France

Jen Cohen inquires about the grueling nature of training for the Tour de France and what makes it so demanding.

Lance Armstrong [11:08]: "It's very dangerous... It's a mix of endurance and strategy, like NASCAR."

Key Points:

• The Tour de France is an immense endurance event spanning over 2,000 miles in three weeks, with only two rest days.
• Armstrong emphasizes the complexities of team dynamics, race strategy, and the physical and mental challenges athletes face.
• Lance [12:21]: "You're constantly trying to figure out the dynamics of this living thing that's going down the road known as the peloton."

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The Doping Controversy and Public Perception

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the doping allegations that overshadowed Armstrong's achievements.

Jen Cohen brings up the prevalent narrative that Armstrong was a poster child for doping in sports.

Jen [15:24]: "Why is it that everybody on the Tour... was doing it, but you exceeded everybody else."

Lance Armstrong [15:08]: "The popular answer isn't an informed answer... The only people that matter are the people who were in the race."

Key Points:

• Armstrong maintains that while doping was widespread, he was unfairly singled out despite not being officially caught during his competitive years.
• He criticizes the media and agencies for perpetuating narratives that may not fully represent the complexities of his situation.
• Lance [16:25]: "There were three or four taglines and PR statements made that just weren't true."

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Financial Turmoil and Recovery

The discussion shifts to Armstrong's financial losses resulting from the fallout of the doping scandal.

Jen Cohen probes into the financial repercussions Armstrong faced, including the loss of sponsors and investments.

Lance Armstrong [53:43]: "North of 100 million bucks."

Key Points:

• Armstrong had to repay significant sums due to the insurance structures tied to his bonuses and salaries.
• Despite these losses, his strategic investments, particularly in venture funds like Lowercase Capital, buffered him financially.
• Lance [54:16]: "By the grace of God, I had access to that. And that changed everything."

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Venture Capital Comeback

Armstrong reveals his venture capital ventures, shedding light on his investments in consumer brands and health-focused startups.

Lance Armstrong [33:18]: "I was the first check into active.com in 1997."

Key Points:

• Armstrong discusses his involvement in notable investments such as Oura Ring, Athletic Brewing, and Waterloo.
• He emphasizes the importance of building a strong network and backing exceptional founders.
• Lance [35:37]: "I love backing exceptional founders... Alex Mather, who started Eternal... is just a guy you wouldn't bet against."

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Personal Life and Resilience

The conversation delves into Armstrong's personal life, mindset, and how he maintains resilience despite past setbacks.

Jen Cohen highlights Armstrong's battle with cancer and his unyielding spirit.

Jen [19:18]: "But it's been 12, 13 years. That's a long time... just watch and wait and, and do all the things I just laid out."

Key Points:

• Armstrong attributes much of his resilience to his mother's strength and perseverance.
• He discusses the balance between being alone and staying connected with close friends and family.
• Lance [24:50]: "I attribute a lot of that to my mother... she just didn't quit."

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Current Lifestyle and Habits

Armstrong shares insights into his current daily habits, emphasizing the importance of sleep and physical activity.

Jen Cohen asks about his daily routines and key habits.

Lance Armstrong [37:05]: "Sleep's an obvious answer... I've been blessed my entire life to be an incredible sleeper."

Key Points:

• A typical day starts at 5:30 AM, involving reading news pertinent to his ventures, followed by workouts.
• Armstrong emphasizes that while he indulges in certain comforts, foundational habits like sleep and regular exercise remain paramount.
• Lance [37:21]: "I can sleep... I could lay down right here, right now and go to sleep."

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Rebranding and Public Image

Despite past controversies, Armstrong discusses his efforts to rebuild his public image and engage with audiences through new platforms.

Jen Cohen mentions a newfound likability and rebranding efforts.

Lance Armstrong [57:55]: "The reactions to the film on Netflix are totally different... they're like, 'that guy's the man.'"

Key Points:

• Armstrong acknowledges the shift in public perception over time, aided by media portrayals and personal endeavors.
• He highlights the importance of genuine interactions and allowing time for societal forgiveness and acceptance.
• Lance [60:16]: "Time helps... I've been allowed to re-emerge."

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Conclusion and Future Endeavors

As the conversation nears its end, Armstrong reflects on his journey, emphasizing resilience and the importance of moving forward.

Jen Cohen expresses appreciation for Armstrong's openness despite the time constraints.

Lance Armstrong [67:34]: "No, but nobody would... But nobody could ever jump out of the car. You know, nobody's that hungry to get the answer to that question, but that is exactly what it feels like."

Key Points:

• Armstrong underscores the relentless nature of professional cycling and the physical demands it entails.
• Despite prior tensions, both hosts express mutual respect and a desire to continue the conversation in future episodes.
• Jen Cohen [68:07]: "Thank you for sitting. I appreciate it."

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Notable Quotes

• Jen Cohen [01:42]: "And I've been trying to get you on the show for at least what, a year and a half, I think."

• Lance Armstrong [04:23]: "I choose rooms that have good energy... Whoever's on your team, I have teams around me... people on those teams that I want to be around."

• Lance Armstrong [14:08]: "Technically, I didn't get caught. But that's another..."

• Lance Armstrong [24:56]: "I'm way more playful... I'm a goofball."

• Lance Armstrong [35:37]: "I love backing exceptional founders... Alex Mather... is just a guy you wouldn't bet against."

• Lance Armstrong [42:08]: "I love being alone... It's sacred."

• Lance Armstrong [60:20]: "I was one of the first people that America canceled... and now he's president again."

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Final Thoughts

Jen Cohen's conversation with Lance Armstrong presents a multifaceted exploration of his life, emphasizing themes of resilience, personal growth, and strategic reinvention. Armstrong's candidness about his past controversies, coupled with his proactive steps in the venture capital space, offers listeners valuable insights into overcoming adversity and rebuilding one's legacy.

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Note: The transcript provided contained some inconsistencies, such as misattributions (e.g., "Lance Armstrong" initially addressing as Tony Robbins). This summary assumes the primary speaker is Lance Armstrong, with Jen Cohen as the host throughout.

Transcript

[Lance Armstrong]

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle.

[Jen]

Crush it. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan living better and longer, there are very few non negotiables. One of them quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentous. Momentous goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dietitians across the country. Here's the thing, they don't sell every supplement under the sun because they believe in nailing the basics, which with rock solid consistency. And those basics are protein and creatine. Momentous sources. Creapure, the purest form of creatine monohydrate available. An absolute must for both men and women who want peak physical and cognitive performance. So if you're serious about leveling up, go to livemomentous.com and use code Jen for 20% off. Just act now. Start today. Jen for 20% off livemomentous.com I have Lance Armstrong on the podcast. It's been a long time coming. I've been trying to get you on the show for at least what, a year and a half, I think.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, a while at least.

[Jen]

And we've had a lot of like different like run ins together, which is very.

[Lance Armstrong]

Don't do it on a podcast.

[Jen]

You don't really. It's true because when I was doing like more research on you, they were kind of like old, like 20, 23, 2017.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I feel like I stopped doing them.

[Jen]

Well, why do you don't like. I mean you get at you probably we said this earlier. You get asked the same questions over.

[Lance Armstrong]

And over again and I just maybe a little of that. But I, I just don't love now that I'm sitting here. Yeah, I just don't love sitting around talking about myself. I mean it's not, you know, and I think, I think they're good for. Here we are again about start this thing. So it's odd, but I think if you're say you're an author, right, and you have a new book out, right. You have to go do shows and podcasts and to promote the book or if you're a band or a singer songwriter, you might go out to promote the album.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like, I don't know. I live at this point a pretty quiet simple life that I don't, I don't need to promote anything. I'm not promoting anything.

[Jen]

Well, then why did you say yes? Because you're a friend and because I harassed you for long enough.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, no, no, no. Like I. And, and I mean, it's weird. Like I did, like I did Steve O's podcast.

[Jen]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Just because I grew up, I didn't know Steve. Oh. But I grew up watching Jackass and I just thought, well, that's fun.

[Jen]

Right? So you're doing things more based on like just how, like in the moment, if you, how you feel. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like, oh yeah, I do whatever I want to do.

[Jen]

Right. That's a good place to be in life. Right?

[Lance Armstrong]

That's an amazing place to be. I mean, I only do what I wanna do.

[Jen]

So. Okay. So. By the way, so thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. Cause I know I tell you, I told you this before, I'm fascinated by your whole trajectory of life, your personality and like, and I don't know you so well, but what I find so interesting, I said this to you before when we were, I was attempting to work out with you. I had too many questions for you. But. And it was kind of a, you know, it was a half assed workout because of it. But you have.

[Lance Armstrong]

We moved. We moved a little bit.

[Jen]

We moved a little bit. Okay. But I really am a workout person. I promise you next time we'll do a better job. But I had so many questions. And the thing is, you have like a real authenticity to you that like, you may come across kind of more gruff. But like you, you have a very like, kind, true, authentic heart. And like you, I think you probably, it looks to me like you kind of feed off of energy. Like if you like somebody or you like something, you probably are very different in that environment than you are otherwise. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

You're exactly right.

[Jen]

And so. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I choose to be. You can't always choose this, but I, I can at this point. I've built it up so that I can choose the room that I'm in normally.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

Of course, most of the time. And I tend, I choose rooms that have good energy. So whether that's the people that you're around, the friends that you choose to, to hang out with, the types of businesses that you're in, just whoever's on your team. I mean, I have teams around me whether it's on the podcast side or on the investing side. Like I'm around people on those teams that I want to Be around.

[Jen]

Right. What do you like to do now besides the fact that you have now you can do whatever the hell you want? Like you said, you have options. You don't care. You're the boss. I've heard you say that before on some podcasts. Like, now you're the boss.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, that sounds weird. I mean, I'm my boss.

[Jen]

You're your boss because even when you were. Well, let's go back. Let's go back to little Lance. Let's kind of like chronologically do this.

[Lance Armstrong]

Little lands.

[Jen]

Because when you were little Lance, because you were not always. You weren't. You didn't start off as a cyclist. Right. You started off like you were doing swimming. I heard.

[Lance Armstrong]

Sorry. Yep. Swimming was my first serious sport.

[Jen]

Do you still swim?

[Lance Armstrong]

Occasionally. It's funny, I. So when you're my age and you swim seriously, you would swim what they call Masters, right?

[Jen]

I know Masters.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right. But most people listening may not know master. Masters is. It looks like a swim team for old people.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

So I grew up swimming with kids, and so. And if you're a serious swimmer at that age, you swim what they call age group swimming. Right. So kids, when they're young, they can sort of do the summer country club swim league, which is just in the summer. Or if you swim year round and you swim more serious, you swim age group. Right. It's like Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky, they grew up swimming age group swimming. So that means they swam twice a day, every day, 12 months a year. That's how I grew up swimming. So then when you get older and you want to be a serious swimmer, you swim Masters. Right. And so that's when I, like, 15 years ago, I started swimming again. Seriously. And the master's team that I swam with is like two blocks from my house. I could walk there every day.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I just. I don't go that often and I haven't been in a while, but I can. I still enjoy swimming. I don't love chlorine.

[Jen]

Yeah. No.

[Lance Armstrong]

To be honest with you, chlorine. You know, if I. If I lived at the beach, I would probably swim open water. I'd probably swim almost every day. But the chlorine thing, and you just kind of.

[Jen]

It kind of sears you away from that. So my question more was like, okay, so you start off in swimming, like, how did you get into cycling? Was it. Did you have. It seems to me like your endurance is off the charts genetically. Were you tested? Did you have, like, did you. Was it just something. How did you know that cycling was going to be the sport. You did swimming, which was an endurance thing.

[Lance Armstrong]

And then I started doing triathlons.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And then I turned pro in triathlon when I was 15.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

And so then I knew that I had, I was getting results as a 15 year old kid racing against 30 year old men.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

That you didn't need to be in a lab to, to know that you had some. That I had the DNA or the talent to be an endurance athlete. But at that time I did. I lived in, I grew up in Dallas. So I went, I got asked to go be tested at a place in Dallas called the Cooper Clinic, which is pretty well known. It's a place that. It's not dissimilar to Mayo Clinic or other places where folks will go and get tested. So I went as a, as a young kid and the testing, you know, I did a VO2 Max test and all these things and the, and the physiologist was like, wow, this is. I'm not sure We've seen a VO2 like this before. So.

[Jen]

But again, do you remember what it was?

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, I'm 53. It was 40 years ago, so. No, but it was high.

[Jen]

Yeah, very. I heard it was 86. I don't know if that was right. That's what I read.

[Lance Armstrong]

Who knows? It's funny. V2 is having a moment again. Like, I feel like, you know, when we were at that, when I was that age and then, and then when I was cycling and at the Olympic Training center, we, we would test VO2 max. And then it kind of, you know, maybe it was prohibitive because you needed all, you needed the lab, you needed the equipment, and now they've got these mobile units. And so it's having a moment again.

[Jen]

It is.

[Lance Armstrong]

And so anyhow, but it's, it's. There's a lot of different variables when it comes to VO2 max.

[Jen]

But why? Okay, because another endurance, like when the tr. Why cycling and not running. Like, why. Why did you single out cycling?

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, a couple things. One, I enjoyed cycling more.

[Jen]

Okay. That's a good reason.

[Lance Armstrong]

You wouldn't.

[Jen]

Yeah, right.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, if you're, if you have the option to, to, to go for four or five hours and see 80 miles of beautiful terrain versus. And no impact on the body versus, you know, you know, seeing 15 miles of beautiful terrain and a lot of it, I just, I just. And I was better at cycling. I quickly figured out that, that cycling was my strength. Now when I was a young kid and doing triathlons, I Could swim with the front group. So I would come out of the water with the leaders. I would come off the bike with the leaders and they would run away from the, the, these guys that I would race with would run away from me because they were, I mean they were 30 year old men, they run a lot faster. And so I still, I mean I still would finish top 10, but, but I knew that cycling was going to be the best of those, of the three. So then I started to just gradually transition to cycling and I went to the Olympic training center and then I got selected for the junior World Championships team, which was in 1989, which was in Moscow, which is kind of wild. I mean this is, this would have been in August of 89 before the wall came down. Like I was a 17 year old kid in Moscow. Like it was, it was, that was crazy. This is. And, and so that, that was. And then pretty much a year or two later I switched full time.

[Jen]

How old were you when you won the first Tour de France? How old were you?

[Lance Armstrong]

27 years old.

[Jen]

Your first one was 27?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yep. So I think that's right. I'm trying to do the math. 1999. Yeah, maybe, maybe 28 actually. Geez.

[Jen]

Well, because let's, I want to like how, how do you train for that? Because I think people are, you hear it super grueling. It's like, it's, it's, that's all true. It's.

[Lance Armstrong]

It is cruelly horrible.

[Jen]

Like I, People like you hear like little rumblings. But people who are not cyclists or who don't follow it. Can you describe why it is as grueling as people hear rumors to be? Like, why is it so and so dangerous on top of it?

[Lance Armstrong]

It's very dangerous. And I mean I think that's the thing that it's obviously an endurance event. Obviously it's three weeks, it's over 2,000 miles, it's every day. There are two rest days. But it's know the, it's recovery is difficult, but there are 200 guys on the road all trying to be at the same place at the same time. So you're not just. And of course we are on a team. We had, in my generation, we had nine riders on the team. So we're racing against 190 other people. It's, it's hard to control that. And you know, the roads are technical, there's crashes, there's mechanicals and so it's a, there's a lot like it's a mix of endurance sort of nascar. Because you're fighting for position all the time. Strategy, politics. Right. Since you have the politics piece. When you think about it, if you're nine guys trying to control 200.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

You have to be political. You can't. No team can control that. You're constantly trying to find allies and friends in that peloton, and those people that are your allies and friends on day two might be your enemies on day eight.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Lance Armstrong]

So you're constantly trying to figure out the dynamics of this. This living thing that's going down the road known as the peloton.

[Jen]

And so, like, what's the trait? Like, how do you train for that? Like, what's the training schedule? Like, how do you. Because it takes a very particular mindset person to be able to even go through the grueling training schedule. Like, do you remember what you did day in, day out?

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, first of all, there's a lot of racing beforehand.

[Jen]

Okay?

[Lance Armstrong]

So it's not. You don't just show up to the Tour and say, I've trained perfectly. I mean, we would do anywhere from 40 to 60 race days before that. And then. And then, obviously, a lot of training, a lot of reconnaissance.

[Jen]

Do you have to do weight training? Because you had to be, like, skinny, right? Like, very small.

[Lance Armstrong]

Not a ton of strength training.

[Jen]

So what do you. Is it all endurance training? Like, did you do, like, mental mindset tricks? And do you. Like, how do you psychologically prepare for that? Like, what. Is there anything on that side?

[Lance Armstrong]

No, no. I mean, we. We. Other than being convinced I was going to win, Like.

[Jen]

No, exactly. But you have to. You have to believe your belief system on yourself has to be so strong like, that you. That you actually believe that you can actually.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, not. Not the first couple, but after I got a couple under my belt, I was. I was pretty sure we were. I mean, look, anything can happen. You can have all these things I described. Accidents, illnesses, bad luck or just bad luck. You know, caught out in a crosswind, lose five minutes. I mean, this can.

[Jen]

But what made you. Like, I guess what made you so much. Like, this is the thing. Okay, so I'm gonna not beat around the bush, obviously. Like, why is it that everybody on the Tour, like, I. You got caught for doping, but everybody was doing it, right? So, like, the playing field right away.

[Lance Armstrong]

Technically, I didn't get caught. But that's another.

[Jen]

That's a whole other discussion. But my. My first.

[Lance Armstrong]

I was exp. Certainly exposed but not caught. That's true, if that makes sense.

[Jen]

No, explain it. I mean, because for people who don't, like, who are not familiar with, like my. Of course I know. But people who are like younger, who are listening, who don't really know all the details of minutiae, people would just say, yeah, Lance Armstrong got caught for doping. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

Which is. That's fine too. I mean, that's, That's. If that's. If. If that's sort of the story that or the storyline that is. That has survived, then, then that, that's. That's fair too. But what I was just. And I was just half joking. I mean, being caught. Being caught. We obviously were tested every day.

[Jen]

Right, Right, right.

[Lance Armstrong]

So being caught would be like you tested positive. I mean, there was none of that. It was. It was way more complicated. There was a. It was more of a legal process.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Lance Armstrong]

Than it was a success of the legal system and not a success of the anti doping system.

[Jen]

But why do you think that you were made to be such a poster child, like people. Everybody was my point was it such is so grueling. It's so horrible. I feel like the. It seems to me the baseline was everybody was doing it and you still were in that baseline so much better and exceeded everybody else.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I think that's right. And I think that that's not a popular answer. But the popular answer isn't an informed answer, right? The informed answer is, and this is, you know, I've talked a little about this in the past. The only people that matter, the only people that matter are the people who were in the race. That's it, in my opinion. That's all I care about. Now, if 90% of them were yelling and screaming, you know, you know, lynch this guy, then that would suck. But the reality is 0% of them have said that. So they're all that matter. Right. The people who were in the war and in the battles and in the trenches and in the fights and we're head to head. That's all that matters. Right. And so, like, what would be the.

[Jen]

One thing that you wish people knew that hasn't really. That people don't realize or don't know? There's like one piece of information that's been very misbranded in the, in the media. What would it be?

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, look, there, there, there's. I'm not going to get into the. The details of it because I've moved on with my life and, And I feel like I've done a decent job moving on with my life. What I will say is that there were a few things as this legal process played out to sort of reinforce and, and really to dance on my grave. There were three or four taglines and PR statements made that just weren't true. Right. And so that's, but whatever. I mean it, it, that's what those agencies chose to do and they're not, they're simply not true. And the, again, if, if time tells the true story here and I'll just give an example, right. So if, if somebody says that guy right there pointing to me, that's the biggest fraud in the history of sport. I mean, come on, that's easy to say at the time. That feels good for the other side to say. I'm sorry, that is not true. Right. And I know that. My competitors know that. My teammates know that. The people that I raced as a 15 year old professional triathlete know that. The people that I race as a 53 year old Hyrox athlete know that. So that's just the, they're just jerking themselves off.

[Jen]

But hey, no, I think that's, I think, I think it's because I think also the biggest and best people love to see that person fall, right. And then rebuild. Like someone like you. Because you've had like between that I was going to ask.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't think they considered the rebuild.

[Jen]

I mean, I don't.

[Lance Armstrong]

I think, I think I meant what I said. When you dance on somebody's grave, they're in the grave.

[Jen]

That's true.

[Lance Armstrong]

And that's what they did. And that's, that's. But, but that, that I wasn't going to stay in the grave.

[Jen]

Well, also, you know, it's interesting I said this to you before. It's like you, you were such, you were probably such a low place, but it didn't ever, it never really, it didn't seem like you ever got, it didn't take you into a bad place. It. I feel like you kept on succeeding over and over in other areas of life.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, but it's been, look, it's been 12, 13 years. That's a long time. So I had time, I didn't have time to be a professional athlete again. Time was up for me. I was 40 years old and was banned in cycling. But I had time to be patient and to reimagine, reassess, reinvent, reemerge in whatever way. So I had time for that. But there was a long period, and I say long, I mean 5, 5 ish years where I was just patient and I just watched and waited and, and and, and did all the things I just laid out, right. Primarily reimagining and, and reassessing.

[Jen]

But even like we get. You get cancer at 25 years old, right? And like your doc, I read that your doctor gave you like basically 20% chance of living right? And you're. You, you were that, that little amount you were able to, you know, against all odds, beat that and then go on again to win. Like that to me says something about like your, your brain and your mindset and your will. I guess overall the will is what I was. What I'm so fascinated by, like, is that something that is just so innate in you, like nothing can. Like, you're like, it seems like you actually are, like you are like unstoppable. Is that something that you trained for? Are you just born like that? Like, can people become that if they're not that way? Because you just are who you are, right?

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, look, I. Maybe, I mean that all sounds good, but.

[Jen]

Yeah, but how do you. Like you. And then you went to win again.

[Lance Armstrong]

And you like, even I think some people are just better equipped. I was equipped to not quit. Right. And so I didn't quit when I was diagnosed and I fought for my life and I got my life back and then I fought to win the Tours and then that got. That story got edited.

[Jen]

Well, tell me about how. How did you even get. How did. Were you able to ever train like that again? Never mind. Like people can't. People who are the healthiest as I've ever. I can't even imagine like cycling like around the block 40 times. How do you win?

[Lance Armstrong]

The body comes back to that level.

[Jen]

Like your cancer was all over your body, right? Like you.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, but then the cancer. I, I mean, clearly, clearly. But I also, I was racing sick probably. I don't know for how long, but, but long enough to. In my mind I thought, well, God, I've been sick for. I mean, I did the Olympics in Atlanta two months before I was diagnosed.

[Jen]

I know.

[Lance Armstrong]

It's so a part of me, part of me. If you. And, and, and, and I'm just, I was just telling myself this, but I was like, wow, I've been sick for a long time. Like, just imagine when I get healthy and I get all of this stuff out of my body.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like I'm going to be super badass then. Now I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was telling myself.

[Jen]

And so did you do. Do a lot of self talk? Like, I want to Know, like the intricacies. Like, do you have to. Do you talk to yourself to like, push you? Do you. Like, what's your. Like, what do you. What goes on in your brain? I mean, is there a narrative? Is there like.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, I don't. I'd have to. I don't push myself. It's been a minute since I pushed myself. Like back then we trained a lot and pushed ourselves a lot. And I don't do that anymore. So it's.

[Jen]

But you kind of like, you still are training daily.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, but not, not like that. I'm just, I'm just. I mean, I do. It depends if I, If I ride my bike, those. That takes longer. But if, If I train in the gym or go for a run, I mean, it's an hour a day. It's not, you know.

[Jen]

No, I know it's not. But what I'm saying, like, okay, after you, when you got diagnosed with cancer and then you beat cancer, what was the process to get back to be like a champion again? Like, what did you do? What was the. What was the mental.

[Lance Armstrong]

It just went straight back to it.

[Jen]

Didn't even know.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, I took a year off. I took the year I was all of 1997. I didn't raise. So then I just. But when I went back, I strayed back in my.

[Jen]

My question is, I think that people, like, are. Well, this is what I want to know is like when I. You just overall, like, if you are succeeding in a lots of different areas, like business, you've become like a rock star and like with, with next ventures, the cycling, like, it seems like everything that you do there is like a massive level of success. Okay. So to me, that's. That is indicative of someone's like, mindset and will and determination and ambition and all these things. Right? My question is not even a question, but is that just something you've always been like, that's just who you are and that's just how you. Like, how does somebody. Is there, like, is there like actionable things that people can do to become better that way?

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, look, I grew up in a. In a way with a mother, a single mother, more or less a single mother that had me very young. And yeah, she overcame a lot of odds different than my obstacles, and she wasn't an athlete, but she just didn't. She never quit. Like, she was constantly pushing, just trying to defy the odds. Right? Whether it's, you know, having a kid at 17 years old in Dallas, Texas, right? With, you know, with no, obviously. Obviously, she was in a relationship, but never met. My father said, but this was not an ideal situation, but she didn't care. I mean, she just. She was dead set on having me. And. And, you know, we grew up poor and I say grew up poor. I mean, we didn't grow up. We. At that time, we were very poor. Then she remarried, and that relationship wasn't perfect and. But she stuck. You know, she just. She's just. She's tough, she has grit. She's overcome a lot. I do think that, that you either. That's just a part of my DNA, but I've also absorbed a lot of that just by having watched her as. As I grew up. And we grew up together. Right. Keep in mind, my mom was 34 years old when I graduated high school.

[Jen]

Wow. Wow.

[Lance Armstrong]

So I think there's. There's a lot of that. I mean, if I look back to my diagnosis and if I look back to the last decade, I attribute a lot of that to my mother, right. Who overcame a lot of long odds, you know, to build a life for herself and to build a life for me.

[Jen]

Would you say would be the one thing that people don't know about you? Is there something that you would say?

[Lance Armstrong]

Oh, I think this. I think when people get to know me, I'm a lot goofier than people. Like, I don't take myself. I take myself seriously, but most of the time, I do not take myself very seriously. So it's like a good example, right, Is obviously my kids know me, right? They're like, my dad is. Is a goofball.

[Jen]

Would they say that about you?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, for sure. But my. But their friends would. Would be like, oh, my God, you're. You know, and then they get around their friend's father, who's me, and they're like, wow, this. That's not what I expected. Like, this guy's is a goop.

[Jen]

I totally know what you mean.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like, I'm way more playful.

[Jen]

And you don't take yourself seriously. You're much more like, you have. You're not so serious all the time.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I think that's, you know, there was this. And it is true. I mean, when we trained and of course back then, you know, when I was winning the tours, there wasn't social media, so people's personalities. Let's just say that. I mean, I was doing goofy shit all the time back then, but now if that athlete, you would be capturing that and sort of putting that out to the world, whereas nobody had. Nobody had access to Us, like we were in a hotel or in a team bus or in the race or. Not available. Right, right. There was no access. So. Speaking of children. Oh, my God. What does she want?

[Jen]

You can ask for it. We could just edit that part out.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, watch this.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yes. What's up? Yeah, Olivia, let me ask you a question.

[Jen]

Ask her. Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Is your dad goofy? On occasion.

[Jen]

On occasion. What would be the one thing that people don't know or would ever think that your dad was like, I'm in.

[Lance Armstrong]

The middle of a podcast. So you're actually on the podcast right now and you're on my watch.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Slightly awkward. What was the question? What is the one thing that people don't know about your dad?

[Jen]

I want you fart.

[Lance Armstrong]

All right, I gotta go. I'll call you later.

[Jen]

We're keeping that in there.

[Lance Armstrong]

We're keeping that in there. I love you. Love you. Bye. I, I can't lie. That's 100. Keeping that in there. I'm very proud of my fart prowess. I, I, it's, it's a thing. I don't know. She's right.

[Jen]

Do you eat a lot of, like, coniferous vegetables?

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know. I don't.

[Jen]

And I do have gut problems.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know. I just know. But anyways, that's, that's, that's, that's funny. She said that. It's true. I'm sorry. That is true.

[Jen]

That's your, that's the big thing.

[Lance Armstrong]

Sort of a world world champ when it comes to, to that.

[Jen]

Really? So you're a world champ in a lot of different areas. That's hilarious. I'm glad that Olivia called you.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's the 14 year old. She's not actually 15 year old. Wait, how old is Olivia? Not 14.

[Jen]

So then that's so funny. What would your 17 year old say? Same thing. That you're like a champion farter.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, he would, he's 15, almost 16. Oh, he's, he would, yeah. He probably said the same thing because you've been.

[Jen]

Because they, you, this happened like your whole, the downfall, so to speak, happened like, what, 15 years ago, you said like 13.

[Lance Armstrong]

12. 13 years.

[Jen]

12, 13. How did it, like, did it soften you? Did you become more playful? Because, you know, is that when he's always playful, you're always this way. So, so how did this, how did what happened to you with the doping change your personality? Or did it change your personality? Did you become much more. Was there more humility because of it, or did you lose a Lot of friends. So then you had to, like, kind of pivot and look, I don't.

[Lance Armstrong]

I think you lose. I certainly know you lose a piece of the following. And anybody in that situation would. And anybody in that situation would lose a part of the team, right? So the parts of the team that were there because it was their job to be there, right? Whether that's an agent, a business manager, a public whatever, you know, people that have jobs because of this machine, right.

[Jen]

Which.

[Lance Armstrong]

Which was me. When that machine goes from 100 miles an hour to zero, there's. It's not a business anymore. So those people then. So that. That part of my life went away, which is. Is to be expected. Right. I mean, you're gonna. You're gonna lose people like that. So. But people that. I mean, I didn't have anybody who I would have sworn was a great, amazing, true friend that I lost, like, all the people that. That. That I loved and I would have called in the darkest moments, they're still there. I mean, they. They stayed. And so now, you know, there was obviously the situation with Livestrong, which. Which did go away.

[Jen]

Right. But you started. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because, I mean, you did ra. Because of you, there was like a five. Was it 500 million, 700 million? What was it?

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, yeah, at the time, 500 million.

[Jen]

Was raised and it was. Who thought of those yellow bands?

[Lance Armstrong]

Nike thought of the yellow wristband.

[Jen]

And so.

[Lance Armstrong]

And fun. Fun fact. My partner at Next Ventures, Mel Strong, was on. She worked at Nike at the time and was part of that original team that. That. That had this crazy idea, which there's still some debate on whose actual idea it was, because it turned out to be an amazing idea.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

But. So just wild to be totally reunited with her and having been her partner the last six years. But. Yeah, so that.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, just answer the. I mean, I. I started the organization when. When I was diagnosed so many years ago. And then obviously, yeah, I mean, that was in 1996. It was fueled by two things. One, I mean, if I was diagnosed in 96, we were officially a 501C. Three, in 1997. I won the Tour de France in 1999. Right. So this. That's the first sort of call it tipping point.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And then. And. But then the organization continued to grow. And then the yellow Wristband came in 2004. Right. And we sold 82 million of those in a fairly short amount of time.

[Jen]

I used to wear one.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. So it. It. But. But that was. That Was, you know, if. There was if. And I considered it a friend. Right. I considered the organization and the movement a friend of mine. And that friend went away, right?

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

Because that friend chose to go away.

[Jen]

It's too bad. Because it's a great thing. I mean.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, well, it's still a thing.

[Jen]

Is it though? Like, I don't really hear about it or see it or is it really a thing?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, it is. Yeah.

[Jen]

So, I mean, obviously you don't have a relationship with Nike. Of course.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, but yet, I mean, yes and no, I don't, I don't, I'm not a sponsored athlete. Mel is no longer at Nike. Obviously she's full time.

[Jen]

When did she do at Nike? When she was at Nike.

[Lance Armstrong]

The better question is what did she not do?

[Jen]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

She was there almost 20 years and worked her way up. She ran a ton of business businesses there. She's, she's a force of nature. But that's a whole separate podcast. Like she's, you should have her on your business.

[Jen]

That's actually very interesting.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I, I, she's a force in nature.

[Jen]

So does that mean, by the way, next is only six years old because you said she's your partner for the last six years.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's right.

[Jen]

So you started next with Mel.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yep.

[Jen]

Okay. And so obviously the relationship with Nike was pretty good if you became partners with one of the head executives there.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, she had, yeah, she had decided to leave Nike. But I still have, I mean, I'm still very close to Phil Knight. The CEO of, of the business as of nine months ago was Elliot Hill, who before he went back to Nike to take that job, lived in Austin. I've known, grew up in, grew up in Austin, Texas, kid. I consider him a dear friend. So I still, I have a relationship through that, but I, I, I, I don't wear the swoosh well.

[Jen]

Yeah. And also, but, but also, though you're not even an, you're not like a professional athlete anyway, so it wouldn't be.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I mean you're gonna, yeah, that's not.

[Jen]

So then how did it go from. Okay, so then that's with, with Livestrong and all of that, Mel became like, so how did you kind of ricochet into the venture area? Like, were you always interested in, in like CPG brands or business?

[Lance Armstrong]

I had tended towards consumer brands.

[Jen]

Okay, right.

[Lance Armstrong]

So we're drinking water. Water. Like that's one. For example.

[Jen]

Is this one of your brands? Yeah, I love Waterloo, actually. It's really good. It's one of My favorite types of good. Yeah, this is very good. Yeah. When do you guys invest? At what stage?

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, these. These I just did personally before Next Venture. So I did Waterloo before that. I did Athletic Brewing before that. I did Honey Stinger before that. I did just.

[Jen]

That's just on your own before you even started actual.

[Lance Armstrong]

So we. We raised fund one. It's technically a 2019 vintage. So we fully deployed the first fund and now almost done raising our second fund. And you know, that is there has been some consumer exposure there, but less and less. I still have a soft spot for it, but that's. There are funds that focus exclusively on consumer and they're great at it.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And not that we wouldn't do consumer, but we just do less.

[Jen]

Now what do you do more of?

[Lance Armstrong]

Now we do more. It's. We define investing. And if you think about health and you think about investing in health and you can look at it in a simple way, really two ways. Upstream care, downstream care. Right. So preventative care and more sick care.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

We will dabble in both of those and I'll give you examples. Right. So we did a point of care diagnostics company and Fund one called Vital Bio. So lab testing in the doctor's office, very fast results. Sounds an awful lot like another story that this world has heard before. But this one works. We explore a lot of opportunities.

[Jen]

Oh, yeah, it sounds very familiar. That's right.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right. So it. Without naming anything.

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

We explore opportunities in and around Medicare, Medicaid. But at the same time, we did Outside Inc. We did a really cool. Our last investment in Fund one. Because you're so passionate about this space, you probably know about it. We were talking about Stacy Sims earlier. She does work with a company called Eternal. So that was our 21st and last deal out of fund one. So however you define Eternal and optimization, a health play, there's a lot of that.

[Jen]

So are you like a big. Are you. Do you like.

[Lance Armstrong]

But let me just finish. I mean, the. The. The thing I love about Eternal other than just believing that society has fundamentally shifted their views on health. I do believe that. I believe and. And I live that I love backing exceptional founders. And Alex Mather, who started. Who started Eternal and has been successful many times over, is just a guy you wouldn't bet against. Right. So what was. You were going.

[Jen]

No, no, I was gonna say, like, are you someone who's like, are you like, really into, like, longevity and biohacking? Like, do you kind of like, gravitate to that stuff or.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't probably not. Okay, so I'm not opposed to that. But. But you were. I mean, I have a gym at my house.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

But I don't have a cold plunge. I don't have a sauna yet. Although we're getting those.

[Jen]

I was gonna say. Do you like that? Kind of like.

[Lance Armstrong]

You don't need to. I don't like cold, but the sauna I would do every day. So that's, that's. But I'm not. I don't, I don't invest a lot of time in all these things that you read about or see on TikTok or Instagram.

[Jen]

Like, do you think a lot of. It's just a bunch of nonsense?

[Lance Armstrong]

And be honest, I think lifestyle is the biggest factor. Right.

[Jen]

Like, what was the. What would you say the number one core or the keystone habit is for someone to be optimally at their best?

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, sleep's an obvious answer.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

But not every. There are people that are just really challenged by sleep and they try different things and different hacks and it's very hard to get that right. But I've been blessed my entire life to be an incredible sleeper. Like, I just. I can sleep.

[Jen]

Really?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, I can sleep. I could lay down right here, right now and go to sleep.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. My wife hates you.

[Jen]

Yeah, I hate you too.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I think, you know, and I'm. My diet is not great, but getting better.

[Jen]

What do you eat? What kind of stuff do you eat?

[Lance Armstrong]

Whatever I want to eat.

[Jen]

Although I remember that because I went to see Kill. We went to see Kill Tony. And you had like four of these, like, gross, like, hot dogs that they.

[Lance Armstrong]

Had in that room and probably Diet Coke.

[Jen]

Yeah. You have like, just like nonsense. But what I find to be, like, super ironic.

[Lance Armstrong]

Five years ago, I would have had, you know, 10 cocktails.

[Jen]

You would. But, but, but the interesting thing is, like, the people I know who are at like the most elite. Elite high performance people, like, truly who are. Are like you. They're not so into the longevity and all the biohacking stuff. They're not doing the cold plunges and the saunas and like the glucose monitoring and they're not eating.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like, by the way, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not knocking on these things.

[Jen]

It's not. Because I'm not even saying it as a knock. I'm just saying, like, it's just not part of their daily rituals. Right. They're like you. They like, eat whatever they want. They kind of just.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, take CGMs, for example. You just mentioned it.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

The, the glucose monitor. There's no scenario where I would wear that 365 days a year. Yeah, there is a very real scenario where I would wear that for three weeks twice a year. Absolutely. And I would love that.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

Right. So you get in, you know, you try the first time, you're going to learn a lot. You're going to learn about your habits and your lifestyle and your diet and how they impact these things. You're going to see, you're going to learn quickly if you're paying attention.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And then you're going to get out. I would get out and then, you know, six months later go back and check in again and kind of relearn and refresh. I love that. Right. But there's no world where that lives in my arm year round.

[Jen]

Yeah. Well, also it's for people who are like legitimately, who are diabetic. I mean.

[Lance Armstrong]

Oh, that's the difference. That's the, that's different.

[Jen]

But I'm saying all of this stuff has gone just a little bit too far. Right. Like, I think that. Where does it end? I think it's become a massive business. Right. It's like a trillion dollar business. Everyone wants. No, exactly. This is an area that you should really be thinking about. That's why I told you to come with me to the conference tomorrow. Because I feel like there's not like a. I'm not going to say a sucker is born every day, but I think that people are chasing youth and people want to live to 180 and any little thing that you think might. But there's no regulation on anything. You could be, it could be all a bunch of snail. If a lot of these things really are not moving the needle that much. Right. Maybe if you don't have your diet and your exercise and the basics and the fundamentals down, these things are not going to move your needle.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. You know, it's better that people are.

[Jen]

Engaged or aware of it. Yeah. But if you could take 170 supplements. But if you're not exercising and moving your body daily.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Like so.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, I would, I would hope that in, in conjunction with the 170 supplements, they would go move a little bit.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

There's no substitute for that.

[Jen]

There's no substitute for that. Right. Okay. That's my. And so.

[Lance Armstrong]

And physically. And also, I think mentally, I mean, I think there's. I know I would go crazy. Literally go crazy if I didn't work out.

[Jen]

Me too.

[Lance Armstrong]

Like, I would be, I would I don't know what I would be. Be bad.

[Jen]

Well, because you probably does. Have you found anything beside. Does anything besides cycling get your no brain to turn?

[Lance Armstrong]

No.

[Jen]

Right. Because it's the endorphins from.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know. It's just what it. That's my church.

[Jen]

Yeah. Would you like to be alone a lot?

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm obsessed with being alone.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

I love being alone.

[Jen]

Because you spend a lot of time alone if you're on a bike for hours and hours, training a day. Right. That's like people like ultra marathoners or.

[Lance Armstrong]

I preferred to ride alone. Now there are a lot of times I would ride with other people and if I ride now, I will mostly ride with other people, but there are plenty of times I get to ride by myself. And it's. It's just sacred. I love it. But I also just like being alone. Like, I'll give you an example. Like, I'm in a. I don't know what the date. This is probably two weeks from now. We spend the summers in Colorado. I will. When we take our cars up there. And so I'm going to drive my car there all alone. Straight shop, thousand miles, all alone. And it's. It's. I'm not. Jen, I'm not shitting you. It's like, it is my favorite day of the year. I love it. I'm. I'm talking about it right now. I'm like, wow, I was right around the corner. I love it.

[Jen]

So you're married for 17 years.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Okay. So do you spend a lot?

[Lance Armstrong]

Like, haven't been married that long, but we've been.

[Jen]

Oh, no.

[Lance Armstrong]

But yeah, we've been together a long, long time.

[Jen]

And what would she say. What would your wife say about you and your, you know, your love for being alone?

[Lance Armstrong]

I think she would agree and she would. She'd support it.

[Jen]

Does she like to be alone, too? Not as much as you, probably.

[Lance Armstrong]

Not as much as. I mean, not as much as me. I probably like to be alone more than most people.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, because I've been around so many people my whole life and I'm still around a lot of people and I don't. I. When you're younger, I think you're better equipped to just sort of deal with it. As I've gotten older, I now know that I have to stop and I have to carve out time to be by myself and just reset this whole thing and calm everything down. I just. And. And I get to. Right. I. I get to. To create my schedule. And so I will intentionally make sure that I have that time.

[Jen]

So how do you spend your time? Like give me.

[Lance Armstrong]

I can't imagine being miserable, being alone. Now. There are a lot of people that can't be alone.

[Jen]

Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

And that's fine. That's, that's the way they're wired and I can't imagine that.

[Jen]

So how much. Okay, so like a day in the life, right? Let's just go through a day in the life. Like what would a day, a typical day.

[Lance Armstrong]

I get up very early.

[Jen]

What time do you get up?

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, I get up not very early. I mean, I get up today. I got up at 5:30.

[Jen]

Okay. That's very early, by the way. Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean there are people who get up, but I'm just, I am an early riser. But I'm also guaranteed okay to be alone, right?

[Jen]

Exactly.

[Lance Armstrong]

So I get up early and I have probably a couple of hours where. What do you do all alone? What do I do? I drink coffee. I read the news.

[Jen]

Are you a big reader?

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't read books, but I read, I read, I meant I read news, current events. I read stuff relevant to our space and whether it's, you know, I read a lot of newsletters, are pretty religious about, you know, reading Axios and Strictly bc and a lot of these, I mean, think you learn, you just got to keep a pulse on that. I think also Fit Insider. I think they do a great job.

[Jen]

That's a good, they do a good job. I agree.

[Lance Armstrong]

That's once a week so you don't have to. But the other ones are daily. But if I subscribe to a newsletter, I read every word and if, and if I find myself just skipping it or deleting it for a few days in a row, I'll just unsubscribe like it's not, it, it's not sticking with me.

[Jen]

Do you read my newsletter?

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm not.

[Jen]

Yeah, I have.

[Lance Armstrong]

I will after today.

[Jen]

Okay, good. And if you don't like it, you could always just unsubscribe. Yeah, okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, I think that's the healthy thing.

[Jen]

Okay, go on. So 5:30 to 7:30, you're reading the news and all that stuff.

[Lance Armstrong]

Depends. I mean if, if, if My daughter's now out of school, summer started for her, so I would take her to school at 8 and then I, I, I have to work out in the morning because my motivation drops in the afternoon. And then I'll, you know, come here to the office and work and so.

[Jen]

You work out for an hour, you Said in the morning.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. If I ride. Nobody rides. I mean, I wouldn't ride for an hour. It's not worth getting dressed for. But I would, you know.

[Jen]

How long would you ride for?

[Lance Armstrong]

2 or 2 hours. I could ride for more, but then that's more time.

[Jen]

That's too much. Yeah. So then. Okay, and then what? You come to you. You work every day at the office.

[Lance Armstrong]

I work here every day.

[Jen]

So do you spend most of your time when you're at the office doing your venture stuff?

[Lance Armstrong]

Most. I spend 90% of my time on Next Ventures.

[Jen]

And are you picking the companies that you are like interested in? Are people bringing you deals?

[Lance Armstrong]

All the above. And we either source through. There's obviously inbound and then there's outbound. We will hunt for deals. Our founders networked. Our existing founders have a. Have a. We like to think a great network. Other VCs have. Have bring us deals. So it's all over the place. And then, and then in terms of who decides. It's not me that decides, it's we decide. Right. So we, me and Mel, who I've talked about and Jordan, who's been on the team for years, where the. It's a three person team. So we will ultimately decide not so much if we want to spend time on a deal because it takes time to. You have to decide to diligence a deal. But we collectively, we're the ic. So we will decide if we do the deal.

[Jen]

And. Okay, so then what's we do? Because I see outside we do.

[Lance Armstrong]

Is the podcast.

[Jen]

Okay. It's just. But do you. We do hard things. Is that like we do whatever. It's just the podcast.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yep.

[Jen]

Okay. I thought it was going to be like a. There was another. I thought that was an umbrella. And then you're going to have other things.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, we do other. We have merch and we have. Could probably be a lot of things.

[Jen]

Because I like the name. It's very good. Yeah. Did you think of that name?

[Lance Armstrong]

You know? No. I mean, well, the idea behind the name of we do like who wants to do crazy hard stuff.

[Jen]

Yeah. Or like we do anything. That's why it's. It's a great brand name because you can like add whatever to the end of the sentence. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

But it could be all we could do. I just, I have to admit I got a little lazy with it. I'm not lazy because we still do the podcast. But like you couldn't. Next requires. And as it should require 90% of my attention, the podcasts are for the most part. Easy, right? Like take the tour podcast, for example. Yeah, that's, that's, you know, that's. We're talking about the day's action. Right. So that's. We sit down and we watch the race, we sit down and we talk about it. And that show's huge. We've sort of been spoiled by the success of the tour show. So it's not like we sat around and are not trying to be creative or entrepreneurial with that brand.

[Jen]

So you get the most, you're the most passionate, though, about next ventures, it feels like. Right.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm passionate about both of them. But it's, it's. I think it's. Look, we have, I don't know, 100 LPs, right. So that's. Which is great. But what that means is they have trusted us with their hard earned money.

[Jen]

Yeah. 100%.

[Lance Armstrong]

So that's a serious commitment. So that, that I spend, that's why I spend most of my time on that.

[Jen]

Were you always interested in business like this when you were like an athlete also? Or did you have to do.

[Lance Armstrong]

Not. Not to this degree. But I mean, a lot of these deals I did, you know, very early on. I mean, I was the very first in. For example, I was the first check into active.com in 1997.

[Jen]

Oh, wow. Okay. So tell people what that is because I don't think a lot of people would know what Active.

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, now they would. I mean, active.com is, is the event registry. I don't even know. I haven't gone and looked in a while. If people still Register events on active.com they probably not.

[Jen]

But at the time it was a big deal, right?

[Lance Armstrong]

At the time it was a big deal. Right. And so. But I knew the founder and liked him and wanted to support him. But that's any. My point being that was a long time ago.

[Jen]

So name other ones that you were like, kind of like first in on that were big money makers for you.

[Lance Armstrong]

Direct investments. I mean, obviously Athletic Brewing is, is between Waterloo and Athletic Brewing. Those will be.

[Jen]

I thought you were involved in like Oura Ring and stuff like that or.

[Lance Armstrong]

Is a part of our fund. So Fund one. We were, we were an early investor in Oura Ring.

[Jen]

Okay. What do you think about wearables? Is that an Oura ring right there?

[Lance Armstrong]

It's an aura ring.

[Jen]

Like, do you feel like it's kind of like. I feel there's now backlash a little bit.

[Lance Armstrong]

It's because you read the article in the New York Times last week.

[Jen]

I Did. But I also know that you can't.

[Lance Armstrong]

But. Yeah, just because.

[Jen]

No, that's not why, though. That's not why.

[Lance Armstrong]

No. But by the way, I think the article is totally fair. Like, if my wife is a good example, like, she's a bad sleeper. So now she has a device that's. That's very accurate. That is just confirming daily that you're a bad.

[Jen]

That you're a bad sleeper. Exactly.

[Lance Armstrong]

So there. There is a natural sort of just anxiety around that, and you get more anxiety.

[Jen]

Like, I. I was.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, I. I don't know. I mean, that's. She goes through phases. She will. She's now wears the ring daily, but she's. She's gone through phases where she's like, all right, I'm sick of this. I don't want to look at this data anymore. I'm not going to wear it for a while.

[Jen]

Well, I also think. What. The anxiety piece is real, right? Like, if you're constantly looking to see if I'm sleeping well, not sleeping well, how many steps. I'm. All of that, like, all that noise is actually causing more issues versus less. By the way, it's not just the farting. I think you have, like, burping, too. I think you drink. Are you sure? I think you should.

[Lance Armstrong]

Waterloo is very carbonate water. I did, I did. I did a whole.

[Jen]

Maybe you're allergic to something. Maybe you have, like a guy.

[Lance Armstrong]

Have you. Are you not drinking?

[Jen]

I am.

[Lance Armstrong]

You're going off, off topic here. This is very carbonated.

[Jen]

It is carbonated, but I feel you're having an issue. Like, we should probably take a break because you're having, like. Okay, well, I'm just making sure. Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

How much time do we have left?

[Jen]

Listen, excuse me. I haven't even started all my questions. That was just me, like, trying to get to know you a little bit.

[Lance Armstrong]

We have to. We have to be done in eight minutes.

[Jen]

Are you joking me right now? This is a joke. I mean, I didn't even get to all the.

[Lance Armstrong]

You know, this is what we'll do. This will be part one.

[Jen]

That. That's like, you're just kind of placating me. And then when, When. When will be part two? In two. In 2034. Like, I have lots.

[Lance Armstrong]

That'll be amazing.

[Jen]

Yeah, but I mean, if you would. I would. I would allow it to happen. If you'll do part two in the next six months.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay, I gotta leave in 10 minutes.

[Jen]

Okay. So I.

[Lance Armstrong]

Okay, I want to do a question.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Lance Armstrong]

I want to do. Let's Play the question game.

[Jen]

Okay, well, wait. You just kind of, like, got me off, off track. I had all these things to ask.

[Lance Armstrong]

These questions have been amazing, so.

[Jen]

Okay, well, that's very nice of you. I have a whole lot of other questions, and I just lost my page, which is not exactly wonderful. But hold on a second here. Well, wait, I'll just go. Okay, so let me go back to. Okay, so. Because I can't be bothered now, I'm getting nervous because I only have seven minutes on the clock with you, and that gets me all, like, scared here. Okay, so it is for Clem. Okay, so how else are you. I want to get to the money part, because I think this is what I. I'm curious. So when this whole thing happened with the doping and you had to give back all these things, you must have had, like, a crash of money. Like, people, your sponsors were pulling out all these things, but by that point, you already made a lot of money, right? So it wasn't like you had to give back. Well, you didn't have to give back.

[Lance Armstrong]

Money, Right, I did have to give back.

[Jen]

Well, I heard that, but I didn't know if that was actually true. You had to actually write checks back.

[Lance Armstrong]

To the people, not so much to sponsors, but. But there were. I mean, this gets really complicated, but.

[Jen]

Okay, my audience is very smart.

[Lance Armstrong]

So if you lose a sponsor, you just lose future revenue.

[Jen]

Right?

[Lance Armstrong]

So it just stops. So. But you could count that as some sort of loss. But there were other. The way that my team had structured most of my bonuses and salary were through insurance policies.

[Jen]

Okay, you're right. This is complicated.

[Lance Armstrong]

So they were either. Either they didn't have the budget to fulfill the contract or meet the contract or for whatever reason, they were just engineering it that way. And so when it went down, then the insurance companies came and said, we want the money back. So, yes, had to pay it back.

[Jen]

So did you have.

[Lance Armstrong]

Were you in quite a lot of it?

[Jen]

How much did you have to give back?

[Lance Armstrong]

A lot. I mean, the people like details.

[Jen]

This is a thing.

[Lance Armstrong]

Tens and tens of millions.

[Jen]

More than 100 million, if you factor.

[Lance Armstrong]

The repayments with whatever guaranteed contracts were in place that you could have just assumed you would have fulfilled. It was north of 100 million bucks.

[Jen]

Holy moly. And so. But, hey, that in itself would drive me into a depression.

[Lance Armstrong]

You don't know that it's that number at the time. So I didn't know if somebody would have walked up and said, hey, no, you're having a shitty day. But by the way, this is exactly what this is going to cost you. Of course, it would have driven me crazy, but it was death by a thousand cuts. And so. But whatever. I mean, over time, I was able to navigate it and I had made great investments and obviously things like Uber.

[Jen]

See Uber, that's another one.

[Lance Armstrong]

But I had access to Uber through a fund. So I was an LP in lowercase, which, if you look at the record books, I mean, it was the most successful venture fund in the history of the world. And, you know, by the grace of God, you know, I had access to that. And that changed everything. Everything. Everything.

[Jen]

Right. So you. Because of that, it kind of saved my family 100%.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, I'm. That's not an. I meant that.

[Jen]

So. Wow. So then how were you then making money? Like, what was the first way of making money after that? Wasn't sponsored? Did you give back the money? Of course. These. These investments. Were you. Were you like, someone who people, like, do. Were you doing a lot of speaking gigs because people were super curious.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, that dried up. I mean, that's back. You know, I wouldn't say with a vengeance, but I do a lot of speaking now. But no, that I couldn't. No, there was no speaking gigs.

[Jen]

Oh. Because I would think if I was a person, a company, I would. Resilience is a major topic. Right. I think that would be.

[Lance Armstrong]

But the resilience story, it's. It's a story now because people. And this is the story they like to hear is. Is. I mean, if it's the first two, three, four, five years, you haven't proven that you've. Are resilient, Are resilient, or have been able to. To reemerge or reimagine. Right. And so now that's the story that, that people love to hear. But at the time, I mean, you. I was. You just had cooties. Right. And so they wouldn't.

[Jen]

That's true. Right. But. But also, I think there's also, like, you know, there's an accident. You want to look like people are curious about, like, where someone is.

[Lance Armstrong]

I didn't. I didn't get any calls.

[Jen]

They didn't care about that.

[Lance Armstrong]

I didn't get those calls.

[Jen]

But the resilience piece is massive. I do feel you're having an up, like. Like an uptick right now. I don't know if it's because of social media or what, but I feel there's a lot of, like, there's more curiosity about you. Also, don't forget our Netflix special that we did together. Our 30 for our 30 for 30.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm so glad you did that for me.

[Jen]

You're welcome.

[Lance Armstrong]

You know, it's interesting. It's a fun data point because it. It wasn't the ne Netflix documentary.

[Jen]

I know just for people to know. So lance did a 30 for 30. I'm kind of half kidding. But long story short, I should have started the podcast by saying this. Lance and I have a mutual friend, Eric Byrne. So shout out to Eric, who introduced us many years ago. Amazing guy.

[Lance Armstrong]

Amazing guy.

[Jen]

Amazing guy. I had a breast cancer charity with my best friend Nicky Austin for many years where we auctioned off bachelors, and all the money we got for dinner dates and all the money we got, we gave to breast cancer. And every year we had a celebrity host or someone to be involved. Eric suggested Lance many years ago to be involved because of his situation with cancer. Long story short, he did it as a favor. Like, not he didn't want to do it, but he did it as a favor to Eric. We met briefly at the thing. 30 for 30. ESPN was doing a story on Lance. They came to the event, they interviewed me. Cut to the 30 for 30. Go on.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. What's. Well, it's. It was released as a 30 for 30 on ESPN.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

But that was. It came out five or six years.

[Jen]

Five years.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. Five years.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And I didn't know that it was going to be whether they call it re released or put up on Netflix, but they did, like, six months ago.

[Jen]

No longer.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, it was not. It was less than a year ago.

[Jen]

Really?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yes, yes. This. The. The Netflix part of the story is new, and. But people think it's a new documentary because they didn't watch it on ESPN and they don't watch 30 for 30s. But everybody has Netflix. So I. And I only know this because people come up to me every day like, hey, I just watched your new documentary. And you don't.

[Jen]

I mean, I know you're like, well.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't take the time to tell them that, but I'm like, oh, cool, thanks. But nonetheless, I had the opportunity, really, to watch people's reaction five years ago and their reaction today because they're two really distinct periods of time, and there's no. There's no time in the middle. Like, people weren't discovering it in the middle. But when it hit Netflix, a lot more people saw it. And so. But their reaction to the film on Netflix, which is, by the way, the film is unchanged.

[Jen]

Right?

[Lance Armstrong]

It's the very same film. Their reaction is totally different.

[Jen]

What is the reaction?

[Lance Armstrong]

Well, I think it's important to say that when it came out on espn, people were like, eh, they were mixed. Now, I don't hear from everybody, but, but the people. But I do hear from a lot the people that react to watching it on Netflix, which is a current is real time is. They're like, wow, that, that guy's the man. Like, it's just a totally different, It's a totally different reaction.

[Jen]

It's funny. I agree with you. It's funny because I remember watching it five years ago on ESPN because someone's like, hey, I just saw you and Lance Armstrong's 30 for 30. I'm like, really? And then now I know. Thank you. I am a star. Thank you for putting me on the map. This is a symbiotic relationship. And then now, or the last six or seven months or whatever, it's been on Netflix, number one. It did really well on Netflix. It was like in the top 10.

[Lance Armstrong]

Oh, really?

[Jen]

Did you not know that for a long time? So the funny thing is, I would get hit up constantly. People are like, why? You know, I just saw you in Lance Armstrong's, you know, thing on Netflix, and that's why I even knew it was even on Netflix. And people did have a different, A totally different response.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jen]

But I feel like people like you become very likable recently. I don't know if it's because of, it's probably part of that. Part of it. Social media partners, part of the podcast. Like, I feel like you've kind of rebranded as time does.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, time helps, I think. I think.

[Jen]

But, but it's funny because now we're living in a time of cancel culture more than ever before.

[Lance Armstrong]

I actually, I, I, I actually completely disagree.

[Jen]

Really? Tell me.

[Lance Armstrong]

I think, I mean, without being political, but you can just observe the political landscape.

[Jen]

Oh, no. In the last, yeah, in the last six months. Different.

[Lance Armstrong]

But I was one of the first people that America canceled.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Lance Armstrong]

And no matter what you think of the current situation politically, I mean, it's, it's, it's. I mean, here's a guy who is now president, who for two years we were trying to put in jail, and people swore that you'd never hear from this guy ever again. And now he's president again, so there is clearly some redemption from somebody. Right. And so, and talk about resilience.

[Jen]

Talk about, like, not, not staying down. I mean, that's another one.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. I mean, you're not going to say.

[Jen]

A word one way or the other. Yes.

[Lance Armstrong]

I Mean, I, I, But I feel like I do think that there is this, this overall sentiment, and whether it's with Donald Trump or whether it's with me or whether it's whoever of like, hey, are we. Did we really just. Are we just going to. Because we tried to erase him, and now the guy's president again. I was convinced we erased him. He's our president, right? And, you know, we erased him. That guy that cyclists, Right. And so he's. I don't know. And now he's. So there. There's been a. Which, look, I'm super grateful for, right? I mean, whatever that is that, that society has allowed me to, to re. Emerge. I could have willed it all I wanted to. Jenkins. Right? We can all. Will. Shit. I can Will. You know, winning the lottery. I'm not going to win the lottery. There has to be this moment or these moments where society says, all right, we'll let you come in for a little bit. Let's see how we feel about this. And then they let you in. And then they let you in some more. And then all of a sudden. But none of that happens if society doesn't say, okay, well, I think people.

[Jen]

Like the human aspect of people, right? To getting to know people in a real way. Social media does that because you show yourself. Like, you, you're doing these, you know, your workouts, and you're doing your podcast now.

[Lance Armstrong]

And like my daughter said, I fart a lot.

[Jen]

Your daughter says you fart all the time. And you let me keep it in the podcast. Right. You're not like, oh, we're going to have to.

[Lance Armstrong]

I mean, the only thing better would be if I actually farted on the podcast.

[Jen]

Well, listen, we have another minute and a half.

[Lance Armstrong]

I'm trying to get you to wrap this up.

[Jen]

That could be a great.

[Lance Armstrong]

Because I'm going to go play golf. I. What would you.

[Jen]

Well, listen, if you really want to wrap it up quickly, that would be a great question.

[Lance Armstrong]

I sent my wife this thing on Instagram the other day because it was. Somebody put it up. Like, this is the, the sign of a healthy rel. Or couples who fart around each other. That's a sign of a healthy relationship. And I thought that was amazing. I sent it to her. I was like, see, honey?

[Jen]

And what did she say? Oh, yeah, great.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, she, she. I mean, what did you mean?

[Jen]

Well, no, what did she say? She's like, yeah, well, great, then we must have a really healthy relationship.

[Lance Armstrong]

We do have. Yeah.

[Jen]

Well, I mean, I think. Well, listen, I think after Time you get comfortable with anybody. Right. And like you're everything just kind of. It's a, It's a free for all.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jen]

How much time do I have with you?

[Lance Armstrong]

Still not much.

[Jen]

Well, you tell me because I should. I. Should I wrap you right now? Because.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, we'll do. This is part one.

[Jen]

Do you promise?

[Lance Armstrong]

I promise. I promise.

[Jen]

Because. Because there's so many other things that I want to talk to you about. All these projects that we're not going to, you know, that I want to know about.

[Lance Armstrong]

We talked about a lot of fun stuff.

[Jen]

I thought we did, but like, it's. This is kind of a short, ish podcast.

[Lance Armstrong]

You told me 45 minutes.

[Jen]

I know, but you would have.

[Lance Armstrong]

If you would have said, let me just put it this way. If you would have said, listen, my shows are three hours, do you know what I would have said?

[Jen]

No way.

[Lance Armstrong]

Jen, I love you. There is a 0% chance I'm doing that.

[Jen]

But you did Joe Rogan, like 10 years ago.

[Lance Armstrong]

I know. And I'm one of the shortest ones he's ever done.

[Jen]

Really? How long was it?

[Lance Armstrong]

It was like low twos.

[Jen]

Really?

[Lance Armstrong]

And I asked him before. I was like, wait, how long? How long you do these things for? He's like, ah, three, three and a half hours. I said, joe, I'm not sitting there for three hours. Yeah, I won't sit anywhere for three hours.

[Jen]

I mean, that's a long time to.

[Lance Armstrong]

Sit a long time.

[Jen]

Did he, would it. Did he ask you anything earth shattering in that two and a half hours?

[Lance Armstrong]

A long time. It was 10 years ago.

[Jen]

I know, but like, how do you ask someone. I mean, I could actually probably do.

[Lance Armstrong]

Look, Joe's the king. He's very conversational. He. He doesn't. I mean, he has. I mean, I think Jamie helps him a lot, but I don't. He, he. I would not like to sit and just chit chat for three hours. I wouldn't like that. He doesn't mind it.

[Jen]

Well, also because you like to. You're like, you probably have ants in your pants. Like you're not interested in, like, you want to go. Please. You do, right? Like, it's like a lot. Which is interesting because you sit on a bike for 12 hours at a.

[Lance Armstrong]

Time, but you're moving, you're seeing things. There's tons of energy that every. Everything is. You're, you're constantly reacting.

[Jen]

Like, that was one question. Okay. And then we could do a part two while you're on this bike doing the Tour de France, like, what's going through your head as you're riding. Are you, like, just super focused? You listen to music. You listen to music.

[Lance Armstrong]

You can't listen to music. But there's no daydreaming in the Tour de France, ever. Ever.

[Jen]

You got to be, like, really alert.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah. And think about it. I mean, it's. It's whatever, four to seven hours a day alone. No, no, no, no. You're with 200 guys.

[Jen]

No, but, like, you're alone on the bike thinking.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, but you're constantly. There's the crowds as well. I mean, you have a million people a day on the side of the road. You see over here, somebody jumps out on the road to take a photo or there's. There's a lot of obstacles.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Lance Armstrong]

And, you know, the. They're, you know, the group is tight and packed together. You're constantly. God forbid the weather turns bad and there's rain and the roads are slick. No, there's no daydreaming, no listening to music, no zoning out, so to speak.

[Jen]

Did you ever get any bad injuries? I don't remember hearing of you ever getting a bad injury.

[Lance Armstrong]

I was lucky there.

[Jen]

Right. Like, you never had, like, an issue like that. Do people like to change your bikes like they do with the F1? Like a wheel here, a wheel there. How often does that happen?

[Lance Armstrong]

It didn't happen very often. For us, it didn't, but it's not like Formula one.

[Jen]

It's not like Formula one, but somebody.

[Lance Armstrong]

Would change your wheel if you got a flat tire?

[Jen]

Well, it is. The only way. I think of it as Formula one, too, is very dangerous. Like I said, like, you're going so fast, and, like, one bad move and you're dead, basically. Like, that's scary.

[Lance Armstrong]

I don't know if you're dead.

[Jen]

Well, with F1, you could be dead.

[Lance Armstrong]

But in cycling, you can die. But it's more. It would be more just road rash, broken collarbone. But look, I mean, you're. You're. People ask me. Look, people ask me all the time, wow, what's it like when you crash in the Tour? I said, well, let me just make this really easy for you. And we can end on. This is in. This guy's a cyclist, right? Or a gal. Gal. Whoever asked the question, I said, well, here. Here's what you should. Here's what you should do. Just so you can answer it for yourself. I said, go put your bike clothes on and have your wife or husband or whoever you want to drive the car and have them just drive down the road at 30 miles an hour and jump out of the car. That's what it feels like.

[Jen]

That's a really good way to end the podcast.

[Lance Armstrong]

But that's. That's exactly. That's what happens.

[Jen]

And that's.

[Lance Armstrong]

No, but nobody would.

[Jen]

Nobody, Nobody would want to feel that.

[Lance Armstrong]

Nobody could ever jump out of the car. You know, nobody's that hungry to get the answer to that question, but that is exactly what it feels like.

[Jen]

How many times did that happen? A lot.

[Lance Armstrong]

That happens a lot.

[Jen]

To you?

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah, to everybody.

[Jen]

Wow. I know. Even to you? Even to you.

[Lance Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Okay, fine. I'll let you part one. Part one. Okay. So thank you. And I appreciate you actually doing this, even though. Even though you hate sitting. So this is a big honor. Thank you for sitting. I appreciate it.

[Lance Armstrong]

Thank you.

[Jen]

Go follow Lance Armstrong if you haven't already. He's amazing. He's got great workouts. And listen to his podcast guest. Goodbye.