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Habits and Hustle
Episode 484: Dr. Josh Axe: Why Your Healthy Smoothie is Making You Sick (And What Actually Heals)
01:43:19
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- [00:01]
A
Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
- [00:11]
B
Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therassage. Their tri light panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me every day, everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach, cramps, shoulder, ankle, Red light therapy is my go to. Plus it also has amazing anti aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therasage Trilite everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code be bold for 15% off. This code will work site wide. Again. Head over to Therasolage T H E R A s a g e.com and use code be bold for 15% off any of their products. Magic mind, this is for you. Okay. Dr. Josh Axe is here and he said to me, do you have the sleep version of the Magic mind, healthy shot or performance shot? Because he loves it and he wants to take it home. He went to ERA one to look for it. Is that not accurate?
- [01:49]
A
It's accurate. It is. I actually had a patient who. Who said, hey, this has been helping me sleep. And so I. Yeah. And so I've used it one time. But I was looking forward to their one here in Culver City.
- [02:02]
B
La. It's la.
- [02:03]
A
La.
- [02:04]
B
Okay. We're gonna get you one. All right. So that is really funny because I literally didn't even like have. I had to. Usually I do this all the time with people.
- [02:11]
A
Because you can send this to them. I have to think about if they can post it. I have my. My part of my non. They probably won't anyway for a year is.
- [02:20]
B
No, no. I've literally sent them so many people because they. People are actually big fans of this.
- [02:25]
A
Yeah.
- [02:25]
B
With like not. Not for any other reason. Because it actually is delicious. And they're just. I just do it because I'm like excited for them. It's a really. I think this is a great product.
- [02:34]
A
Yeah.
- [02:34]
B
Anyway, let's do a shot together if you want. Okay. Are we filming this?
- [02:38]
A
Let me just say this. I'm have a hard. If I have any Caffeine at this late in the day, I will not sleep.
- [02:45]
B
Really? It's only, it's like 50. Okay. You don't want to. Okay. I have like, I take five of them a day. Cuz I'm a crazy person. Why? Just have a little sip. I want to know if you like it.
- [02:52]
A
Do that.
- [02:53]
B
Yeah, yeah, take a little sip and tell me. I've had so many because these are, these are really tasty.
- [02:58]
A
All right, let's do it.
- [02:59]
B
Okay.
- [02:59]
A
Reclaim your brain. I mean, I love a lot of the ingredients. We got matcha, bopa, cordyceps.
- [03:06]
B
It's all the stuff that you like.
- [03:07]
A
Yeah, it is a lot of the stuff I like.
- [03:09]
B
Okay, tell me what you think.
- [03:12]
A
I mean, the flavor's great.
- [03:13]
B
It's. You could take the rest home with you.
- [03:14]
A
Yeah, they did a great, great job.
- [03:17]
B
Okay. You could take that home and you could take ashwagandha. Ashwagandha.
- [03:20]
A
Good stuff.
- [03:20]
B
But by the way, ashwagandha be, we didn't even introduce you yet, but that's okay. Ashwagandha. I heard you're not supposed to take that as a supplement every day. Is that correct?
- [03:29]
A
I, I don't think it's correct. I mean, here, like my, my whole belief system is very much personalized nutrition. And so I think that there are a lot of people who take it long term. One consideration people don't think of always with ashwagandha is that it's a nightshade. So there are a group of people, if they're sensitive to nightshades, that do not do well with ashwagandha. And so there, there are other adaptogenic herbs that can work very similarly if people, you know, are looking for thyroid health or adrenal health or, or stress relief. But, but overall, I know, I, I, I think that people can use ashwagandha for, for longer periods. I mean, there, let me just say this. There are different classes of adaptogens, so some that can be used more long term than others. For instance, I would, I would kind of classify it like this. Panax, ginseng, Eleuthero. Those are known as very, very strong adaptogens that you may only do for a few weeks or even a month or two. And then you typically don't want to do it unless you're older. Then your body can tolerate it longer because you have such a weak constitution. Then you kind of have. The next class would be ashwagandha, maybe cordyceps. Those sort of things are kind of in the middle. And you could do this Pretty long term.
- [04:33]
B
Like what happens if you.
- [04:34]
A
Three months, six months.
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B
So when you're saying like short term, like what's this, like, what's the side effects or the downside of taking one of these adaptogens too long?
- [04:43]
A
Well, I think some, some adaptogens might kind of be overstimulating to your. I mean, ginseng would be one of those. And I think just like caffeine, your body might come to rely on some of the compounds to a degree. Now what I'm sharing is more philosophical. I mean, based on my study of Chinese medicine and Ayurveda. But overall, I do think there's, you know, that can happen or you just, you stop seeing the benefits because your body has had so much of a compound. It's not. And, and, and we know this, people probably experience this the most with a lot of sleep compounds. Like a lot of times people will notice, hey, I took the sleep supplement one night. Wow, it really helped. Second night, third night. But after a week or so they're like, ah, it's just not affecting me anymore. We see that with theanine a lot, Gaba a lot, some of those sort of things. And, and adaptogens. Some adaptogens might have a similar, you know, similar thing. I think reishi is an adaptogen. Reishi mushroom is one of the best. You could take forever, pretty much.
- [05:36]
B
Really?
- [05:36]
A
Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, it's very good for sleep, very good for lowering cortisol, anti cancer. So it's, it's a, it's a good one.
- [05:46]
B
How would you take it? Besides just like, what's a good way of taking a reishi mushroom?
- [05:50]
A
I mean, most people today take in capsule form or a tablet. I mean, they take it as an actual reishi mushroom, but historically it was done as a decoction, which is a type of tea.
- [05:59]
B
So it's funny that you just. Because you're saying how. I've noticed that a lot. Right. Especially people who are like me, who are very engrossed in the health and wellness space. Right. So I take a lot of supplements. I do all the things and people always say to me, like, well, do you feel it? And I'm always, no, I don't feel anything.
- [06:18]
A
I don't feel a lot of it either.
- [06:19]
B
Right. And I assume it's because maybe I'm healthy. But I do believe there's something to be said for cycling things because your body does acclimate.
- [06:27]
A
Yeah. And I think, you know, and all the ancient forms of medicine speak to this in terms of There are seasons when your body probably needs it more than others. So a lot of these adaptogens are according to Chinese medicine, if they're in tune with supporting the adrenals and kidneys, those are going to be needed most in the winter, typically in terms of when you need it the most. But it just, it just depends.
- [06:50]
B
So then like how about magnesium? Right? Because I have noticed with me when I take magnesium like once, like for the, for, for like one night and it works really well and if I take it my. The third. Second. Sorry, second, third, fourth on the third or fourth night, I'm not like sleeping as well. I've noticed that like. So you're saying with the other things that you were saying that you. The sleep agents like theanine. I also find it with magnesium, it doesn't work as well if you're doing it all the time.
- [07:17]
A
Yeah, well, I think once your body sort of reaches that level of it's had enough doing more and more and more isn't going to continue to help you. And the other thing is too like sometimes we try and supplement our way out of. There's a lot of people that will try and everyone does this. We try and supplement our way out of mental, emotional, lifestyle issues. And you can't fix those with supplements or food.
- [07:42]
B
I'm glad that you said that because I think that. Well, people tend to think that if they do the sauna and the cold plunge and they do this ancillary things, it will make them healthy. But yet like they're like missing the fundamentals of health.
- [07:57]
A
Yeah, I mean I would say the biggest fundamental of health that people miss is sort of your spiritual and mental health and having just good lifestyle and habits. Most people today schedule things from the second they wake up till the second they go to bed. And a lot of it has to do with this sort of self help and high productivity lifestyle which.
- [08:14]
B
Listen, high achievers.
- [08:16]
A
High achievers. And there's a balance to that. But I have so many patients and people I've cared for over the years that are sick not because they're not getting enough of something, it's because they're just doing too much. I mean this is a chronic, you know, this is a chronic thing with a lot of people. Like hypothyroidism would be a good example of this. A lot of women struggling with hypothyroidism, they're moms, they've got three kids and they are doing something from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed and and then dietarily, they're also eating completely wrong, like eating a lot of salads and superfood. Smoothies are terrible for people with hypothyroidism. One of the things that we know in these ancient forms of medicine, but even medical research today generally is that people with hypothyroidism, their body temperature is low. Okay. Smoothies are cooling, salads are cooling, vitamin C is cooling. Like doing a lot of those things. We want to raise the body temperature, we want to really support the adrenals. Because most people that have a thyroid issue, it's never coming from the thyroid. The thyroid is always sort of like the innocent bystander, your hormones being off. Yeah, it's always, if it's autoimmune, there's typically, there's a, there's a microbiome component if it's in. Generally, thyroid issues are always started with adrenal issues and cortisol or let's say somebody has normal TSH levels in T4 and their T3 is off. Well, that's a liver issue or again, a gut microbiome issue to where it's not converting properly.
- [09:38]
B
So.
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A
So like every per. And then I'll say this too. There's a study that came out that said women who take contraceptive drugs long term birth control have a nearly 300% increase in hypothyroidism.
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B
Wow.
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A
And the reason is, is birth control depletes the body of numerous B vitamins, selenium, zinc, these are nutrients your body needs for what's called methylation. And so if you're depleted in those, you can't produce the right amount of thyroid hormones. And, and also it's going to harm conversion and a number of other things.
- [10:09]
B
So are you talking birth control pills or like everything like IUDs or all these other things like copper IUDs or copper.
- [10:17]
A
The other one, sorry, the study I'm referencing is birth control pills.
- [10:21]
B
Okay.
- [10:21]
A
But that's not to say copper IUDs aren't going to cause an issue because it's going to imbalance zinc in the body when you have that much copper, and that's going to cause a whole nother problem.
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B
So you know what's so interesting? That like people are not thinking about this, like the ripple effect that they're doing something that they don't even see has an effect on their overall health down the road. And something else.
- [10:41]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know, like that to me is what's so interesting about like what you're saying. Right. Like that's I would never have connected the two like that. Yeah, right. So you said something. Oh my God, you said something really good. I wanted to remember what you just said about. Gosh. Oh, yeah. Adrenals and. The adrenals and thyroid. How do you know if you have. Your adrenals are thin, fatigued? Like if you have adrenal fatigue? Because you're saying, right, because everyone right now, it's like a badge of honor if you're busy from like morning till night, like that's the goal. And if you're not, you're considered to be lazy.
- [11:14]
A
Right. Yeah. Well, and by the way, I've struggled with the same thing myself. You know, like when I was in my first two years of functional medicine practice in Nashville, I like, I was working 60 to 80 hours a week, going really hard at it. And then I started having digestive issues, like, like loose stool, skin rashes, all kinds of problems. And I thought, well, I'm eating like perfectly, so what's going on here? And then I met an acupuncturist and started getting really turned on to Chinese medicine. And I started learning about, you know, other ways of evaluating the body. Not just doing blood work, but also feeling the pulse, looking at the tongue, looking at some different symptoms that might correlate with other things and realizing, okay, my issue is not a nutrient deficiency, it's a rest deficiency. Like, I'm just doing too much all day long and it's burning out my body. You know, adrenal fatigue. I would say in terms of diagnosis, it's an interesting diagnosis. I think generally though, the way that we would look at, we would test to see what's off is really looking at cortisol. People can do what's called a four point hormone test where they're looking at saliva levels and that's going to tell you where your cortisol is at different times of the day. But I would say if you're having a major cortisol imbalance, that that tends to be kind of what I'm more along the lines of what I'm referencing. And one thing people don't realize is cortisol is kind of your body's master hormone. Cortisol is the hormone that is most impacted by stress or living an unhealthy lifestyle. When cortisol goes up too high or too low at the wrong time of day, that's going to cause insulin to go high. When insulin gets high, then that's going to impact everything. Estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, thyroid hormones, Everything's gonna be off. So oftentimes, like, people are chasing all of these other hormones like testosterone or estrogen, when the reality is, if you can start to fix cortisol, which tends to be. It's all lifestyle. I mean, that's one of the things I like about your podcast is it's, it's about habits. Getting in good habits is so important to, to healing.
- [13:11]
B
Yeah.
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A
You know, so.
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B
And not. Not. I also think that as time has gone by, I realized that more is not more. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes less is more. Like when I work out like a fiend too much, that's when I feel like my, my eczema, like, reacts and my cortisol, My cortisol levels are so high that, that my adrenals are probably fatigued. And I see all of these problem problems. You think you're doing something good for yourself, but sometimes too much is also a problem.
- [13:41]
A
Yeah, exactly right.
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B
Can you give people some ideas of when. When they know when too much, when they've hit that too much spot, I'll.
- [13:49]
A
Hit on the most common. But then generally if you're not. Well, I mean, I, I truly believe that stress is the number one thing that makes people sick. It's not food that's big, that's number two, but stress and the emotions you experience consistently, that is the single biggest thing that drives your stress. There's one study that said that 80% of doctor's visits help have a major stress component. And you know, when I remember one of the things that surprised me, because they don't teach you this in school, but when I first had my few years of running my clinic, I would have people come in with like inflammatory bowel disease or ibs. And they would come in and if they would eat something that was just really off the diet, I put them on like a pizza or ice cream, you know, conventional ice cream. They would have just major, major gut reaction. But you know what? I would have people come in with ibd, similar thing, and they would be eating perfectly and they would have a reaction like that. And I'd say, well, you're still on your diet. What's going on? I'm going through a divorce. I lost a loved one. Just a lot of stress at work. It's just there was some sort of stress. I mean, stress can impact your body in an even greater way or an equal way to diet. So I do think that that's something that a lot of people are not fully function conscious of today. I mean, a lot of here's another big one. A lot of us have the emotions we experience based on our childhood. It could be childhood trauma, it could be, you know, toxic parents, it could be being undernourished. There's a number of things. And most people have never dealt with childhood trauma. And a lot of people have never sort of learned how to build virtue and positive emotions as well in order to regulate their emotional state. And it's known that different emotions cause disease in different organ systems. Fear, we know this one, that affects the adrenals, right? And then your body starts putting out more cortisol. So we know fear affects the adrenals and the kidneys and reproductive organs. But then worry affects the digestive system. Grief, we're not letting go of things of the past. That affects the immune system. Anger, impatience, resentment, frustration. That impacts the detoxification system. So your liver and lymphatics. And then last, here is your heart, if you're nervous or anxious, and anxiety, that really impacts heart. Right. Blood pressure will start to go up. So I think for a lot of people, one of the greatest things they can do is focus on spiritual growth, growing in character, those types of things. These things are way bigger for people's physical health than most people realize.
- [16:16]
B
I love that you're saying this. And you're a doctor, right? People come to you to get some kind of diagnosis of what they should be taking, doing. And you're basically lifestyle, basically changing. Get emotionally regulated or get more spiritual. You're like, doing all these things that will actually help benefit their life versus just take this pill or take this peptide or do this or do that. And it's true. Like, they. I mean, all the research has shown that the people who live the longest are the happiest, right?
- [16:47]
A
Yeah, yeah. And they have the best community and the best community, the best relationships. And so that's what, you know, I learned a lot of this when my mom was dealing with cancer her second time. Like, I was just about to open up my practice. And when my mom got her cancer diagnosis, I wanted to do everything we could to heal. So it wasn't just, hey, we're going to follow Gerson Therapy and juice vegetables and do wild salmon and have a really strict diet and then also supplements. We did all that, but it was like, okay, we want to do everything we possibly can, especially on the spiritual side. We were praying for healing. My mom, I asked my mom, I said, what is the thing you love to do most in the world when you were a kid? She's like, well, I Used to have a horse. So like we went and she started doing horseback riding lessons again. My family loved the water, so they started her and my dad started doing a lot more boating and that sort of thing. So. So we kind of went after looking at all these different things. But another thing I discovered was my mom had a lot of worry and anxiousness. My, my mom was really like, if somebody would say negative, something negative to her, it would just like crush her, you know, like, I mean just the opinions of others. And so we really worked with her spiritually on valuing God's perspective on her more than a work. A co worker, maybe somebody who had said something years ago. So really sort of working on that childhood healing of letting go of the anxiety and the fear. And that was a huge part of healing as well. I think that's what. Again, I know I just said this, but I think, and even more with certain conditions like cancer, I think that addressing the emotional root causes of things, if you don't address those things, you're only. And let's say you radically change your diet, that's Great, you improve 50%. But there's another half of the whole equation over here of healing. You haven't even looked at if you're not dealing with some of these things.
- [18:28]
B
That's a really good point. Are you. So you're a functional medicine doctor. We know that. Are you also a Chinese medicine doctor? Because it sounds like you take all these other things that are just really, you just like it and you've learned a lot.
- [18:40]
A
I think what tends to happen is. And I think other people that are in the nutrition space will appreciate this. I, I got into nutrition early because my mom, the first time she was diagnosed with cancer when I was much younger, she's had it twice.
- [18:51]
B
What kind of cancer, by the way? What type of cancer?
- [18:54]
A
First time breast cancer. Second time, lung cancer.
- [18:57]
B
That was like my mom too. Are they correlated?
- [19:00]
A
Well, yeah. So the way this works is most people that die of cancer, I believe this is true. And I should look this up again. This has been years since I looked at the study, but most people that die of cancer die of secondary the second time they get cancer.
- [19:12]
B
Really?
- [19:13]
A
Yeah. So what happens is whether it's breast cancer or prostate cancer or something else, people will go and do chemo and radiation. Well, chemo and radiation not only damage and kill the cancer cells, you've now just damaged the mitochondria and harmed every cell in your entire body. So now your cells aren't as apt and good at fighting Cancer. So, yeah, so I mean, it's a real. It's something almost no one ever talks about, but it's a major issue. So, yeah, with my mom we really went and looked at, okay, you know, like, so, so going back. So that really turned me on to natural health more than anything. And then I started learning from people that were more in the fitness industry. So it's like, you know, get, you know, and you're real familiar with this. It's like. So I started doing a lot, a lot of weightlifting and exercising and eating five to six meals a day. You know, chicken breast, broccoli, sweet potato, brown rice, you know, the whole thing. And, and I'm grateful for that because I learned a lot. But then I went to chiropractic school and I started learning about. I got a nutrition certification, got my doctor of Natural medicine as well. And during that time I started looking more into what is the root of cancer. So one, the bodybuilding, the exercise, diet, hey, that was good for understanding a certain level of supporting metabolic health. But it didn't give me all the answers of why did my mom get cancer? Or why did this child have autism, or why does this patient have Hashimoto's thyroiditis? And that really led me into more functional medicine. And they had some answers there. But I actually started then learning more and more about Chinese medicine and to do a degree Ayurveda and then also looking at biblical medicine. This was another really, really huge thing for me and really understanding the framework. Because if you think about it like this, our modern medical system for the most part is about a hundred years old. Okay. I mean, especially when Rockefeller came in and what he sort of initiated, it's about 100 years old. Someone could argue 150 or 180, but it's not that old. Chinese medicine has been around for over 3,000 years. So is Ayurveda. You know, when, and, and to me, it's the most effective form of medicine. When you're talking about the system that is, is the system that they use. Japan today has 95,000 centurions. Think about that, that small country, Japan, almost 100,000 people that are over 100 years old. And their type of medicine that they use there is really a blend of more of an integrative medicine combined with Chinese medicine. They call it compo. And that's what they do. And it's very, very effective. And so, yeah, to me, Chinese medicine, what they do is they look at not only, hey, what's your lab work and what Are the nutrients you're deficient in. They look much more. It's very personalized. It's okay. You're very unique. What are the foods that are ideal for you? What are the herbal teas that are ideal for you? What are the lifestyle things we need to change? What are the emotions you're experiencing we need to go and work on? It's very comprehensive. And then the other thing I think that's so powerful that I use with patients is biblical medicine. I write about that in the Biblio Diet.
- [22:10]
B
This is. Sorry, I want to ask you about all of this.
- [22:14]
A
Yeah. But there I really get into the power of prayer, the power of fasting, the power of using these biblical medicine principles. So when my mom fought cancer, it was really a blend of something called Gerson Therapy, where you're doing a lot of vegetable juicing. We did a lot of liver and salmon as kind of the protein sources. And then we did a lot of biblical medicine there, too. We also did something called the Budwig Protocol, which is to repair her cell membranes. That's a combination of this fermented dairy with flax. But all of this, like my mom's cancer diagnosis, really led me to studying deeper and deeper and deeper. Because when you have a family member's life on the line and it's your own mom, you really want to do everything you can. And the thing I see a lot of people doing today, it's like, oh, I've got a health problem. I'm going to try and take one supplement to fix it. Or even some fad diet.
- [22:57]
B
Yeah.
- [22:57]
A
And the reality is, is everybody is different. Like your diet versus my diet probably should be pretty different.
- [23:03]
B
You know, it's interesting. You said something earlier that I wanted to ask you about, and then we went somewhere else about how a lot of women, the smoothies and the salads, let's just say with that. The irony of that is most women I know are they run, like you said, run cold. I run cold. Right. And yet that's our go to. We're having these smoothies, we're having these, you know, salads. We're eating like we are. Like, that's what's. We're kind of creating more coolness in our bodies, not heat. When really we should be probably having more heat in our body versus cool.
- [23:38]
A
In Chinese medicine, hypothyroidism is called a Qi and Yang deficiency. To translate that into Western medicine, that is a mitochondrial deficiency.
- [23:48]
B
Okay.
- [23:48]
A
Combined with lack of being anabolic and being able to regenerate your Tissues. And so what that looks like is certain foods are really going to help that. So rather than smoothies and salads, you should be doing soups and teas. I mean, really like chicken vegetable soup. Things are warming and hearty. Pumpkin, butternut squash, sweet potato, lots of cinnamon, loads of ginger. Really warming up your system. Again, warm teas between meals. I mean, I've had so many women who have come to me on synthroid level thyroxine hypothyroid medications and. And they're totally off them now. Even though they thought they would have to be. Many of them came on thinking they would have to be on the drugs the rest of their life, and they're off them. Because when you can really help address the exact root of why somebody's sick in the first place. People. People heal.
- [24:32]
B
Is it. Do you think that women are eating these things and drinking these things because psychologically they think it's going to keep them thin or it's healthy for them. Right. Like, that's kind of like the number that social media has done. Right. Like we think, oh, we're having our nice fruit smoothie. To me, it's all sugar and there's not enough anything in it. Right. Like, it just goes right through me. Is that like a reeducation that needs to happen or what is the way around this to get women to realize that this is what's happening?
- [25:01]
A
Yeah. I think it's all because of trends.
- [25:04]
B
Yeah.
- [25:05]
A
I mean, the reality is this. Do we see this with diets? Right. You had, you know, the vegan diet was very popular.
- [25:10]
B
Not with me.
- [25:11]
A
And then you had. The paleo diet was very popular. Then you had the keto diet, which was very popular. And so, yeah, people start to jump on these. These wagons. But Chinese medicine has never changed. Neither is Ayurveda.
- [25:20]
B
Right.
- [25:21]
A
You should be eating based on your unique composition, what's going on in your body, and eat a diet based on that. And for a lot of people today, women especially, they need to really warm their internal system.
- [25:32]
B
Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about the Paleo and the keto, because I was under the understanding that you are a big fan of paleo.
- [25:38]
A
No, no, I've actually always kind of. Here's the reality. I am for whatever is best for the individual. That individual in front of me. And the paleo diet, I've really never been a paleo person.
- [25:51]
B
Oh, I thought that's what. Maybe. Maybe I just thought that it may.
- [25:54]
A
No. In fact, one of the things we talk about in the biblio diet is we sort of COVID what's the difference between a biblical diet versus a Paleo. Paleo is based on evolution. I'm not an evolutionist, and so I'm much more of a creationist in terms of my belief system. And so it's, it's never really lined up for me. The other thing is there's always been this sort of, this sort of confusion in the Paleo community of what a Paleo diet is. For instance, I remember when I first got introduced to Paleo diet, it was like, eat a lot of raw nuts. And they're like. But then on the other side, they're like, well, don't eat grains because the phytic acid. And I'm like, you're telling me that raw nuts don't have loads of phytic acid? It just was so incoherent.
- [26:36]
B
I think you're right. I don't think people really, I think a lot of people are confused what it means. Like, I think when I think about it, I think it's a lot of nuts and meat. That's what I think too.
- [26:47]
A
Yeah. Well, and the other thing is, and, and, and, and by the way, can somebody eat a paleodont? For some people, they thrive on it. Yeah. Like, I'll give you an example. Like Mark Sisson.
- [26:55]
B
Yeah.
- [26:55]
A
Mark Sisson is a friend of mine and he moved to Nashville recently. And so I just saw him in the gym last week.
- [27:00]
B
I love Mark. Mark Sisson.
- [27:02]
A
You know, I was telling, you know, I was telling someone the other day, I, I, I said, Mark's in his 70s. I don't know another person in their 70s who's as healthy as Mark.
- [27:10]
B
Oh, by the way, have you seen it? He's got like, he's got like a nine pack. Have you seen him? He's like, not for, for real, though. Like, that's like genetics at some point.
- [27:18]
A
Oh, listen, there's an element of genetics. There always is. But again, he's the healthiest person in their 70s. I know.
- [27:26]
B
I mean, athletic.
- [27:27]
A
In his 70s, he's playing running, running, playing Frisbee. I mean, he's, you know, and I know some other people that are in their 60s, 70s, Jills Lamarche. I mean, my dad's 75, water skis every day, weight lifts, very fit. So, so, so there are other people out there, but Mark is, Mark, to me is so in my point, there is. He thrives on doing more of this primal diet that is really inspired by more of the Paleo.
- [27:49]
B
It works for him.
- [27:50]
A
Yeah. And he does great with it. But, but I think that, you know, the other thing is, okay, you're on a paleo diet. You're telling me that cavemen, we're running around like milking cows and drinking dairy. So it's like, so if somebody's on a true paleo diet and they're doing a lot of raw nuts, I mean, it's one thing. You have a walnut fall from a tree. You have a couple. But baking, like using, you know, almond flour and, and, and dairy.
- [28:14]
B
Exactly.
- [28:15]
A
That's not, you know, the meat, fruit, you know, the meat and fruit primarily diet. Okay, you know, I get that.
- [28:21]
B
But I, I totally know what you're saying. I mean, I, I, I'm still like, like, like to your point. I am a little bit, I was a little bit confused by that. But then I saw this whole, that, your whole thing about the biblio diet. And when I was going through it and it says things like, don't eat pork, don't eat seafood, not shellfish. Sorry, sorry. Shellfish. You know what it sounded like to me? It sounds like the kosher diet because kosher is not eating pork, not eating filthy animals. Right. Not having shellfish because it's dirty. It's like bottom feeders. And how is the biblio diet different than like the kosher diet?
- [28:57]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. So I would say one, I, I, the only people I know that follow the kosher diet is a very small group of people. And it's people that are Jewish. Yes, I'm Jewish and amazing. And I've talked to you. Jordan Rubin, my best friend, business partner, he's Jewish as well, and he co authored the book with me. And so, you know, a kosher. Here's what I would say is a kosher diet. It kind of, you know, we're reading with both the Old Testament and the New Testament in mind. We're writing this book with those things in mind. And so, but, but, but there will be a fair amount of overlap. But I would also say we go a little bit further in that, like, I've got another really close friend of mine is, who's orthodox Jew.
- [29:35]
B
Okay.
- [29:35]
A
And working on becoming a rabbi right now. And he eats things that are kosher, but he doesn't care if they're organic, doesn't care if they are ultra processed. I mean, none of that matters.
- [29:45]
B
I know. Is a problem, actually.
- [29:47]
A
Okay.
- [29:47]
B
Yeah. No, no, no. This is, this is one of the biggest arguments in my household with my family, because I'd rather have organic grass fed all the things that you're going to say. But a lot of Jewish, kosher and Orthodox people, they would eat a lot of over like very processed foods, not organic foods, like shitty food to be honest. But yet they refuse to have a lobster or a shrimp. Like to me that's like completely counterintuitive.
- [30:15]
A
Yeah, so, so, and let me say this. The one thing that I think they're totally correct in is this from an animal standpoint, I think that biblical kosher slaughter methods do matter to the health of the animal. You know, I, I, I think that matters a lot. You know, there, I, I think that there's evidence on the way you slaughter the animal and the amount of horse stress hormones that are released that are then going to go into the meat tissue. I mean, I think that's a real problem. So, so, but I would say it's different in the, again in the light of the New Testament there as well in terms of like, like as a Christian for me and in authoring the Biblio diet, I don't believe that eating pork and shellfish is a sin in the same way that it was during the Old Testament period. I do believe though that God didn't just say just for the heck of it, don't eat pork and shellfish. And modern science proves this today. I mean, when you look at pork, it is the greatest carrier of parasites of all animals. I mean, so more people get parasitic infections, I think from eating pork than probably any other food. People are like, well, what if it's really, really well cooked? Like I had a cousin who killed a wild boar, froze the meat, made it into sausage, cooked it really well and ended up getting like a terrible parasite infection from that meat. And I know this with a lot of people, so the reality is, is that pork is the dirtiest land animal. I mean, listen, they eat, it's documented like they eat their own crap. They're scavengers, they'll eat anything. Their digestive systems, they have a mono chamber similar to humans and they store toxins. Their bodies versus cows, I mean, they take some 24 hours to digest. They have a mono chamber digestive system. They are much better at cleansing toxins out of their tissues. So ruminant animals like cows, lamb, goats, much, much healthier for us than pork. And then, I mean, people can look this up. What is the dirtiest food in the sea? It's shrimp. I mean, go and just do a Google Search or ChatGPT, it'll tell you the level of dioxin. So it's Even documented today that pork and shellfish are very, very toxic meat products. So the Bible's completely right in that. And so again, I think that there's definitely some overlap, but I think the biblio diet goes a step beyond kosher in terms of is it organic, is it pasture raised? Looking at all those fine details because one, we're called to be good stewards over the animals. They should have lots of sunlight, they should be drinking spring water, they should be grass fed year round, and they should be slaughtered biblically. I mean, I believe all those things are important to stewardship and the health of us. You know, one of the things we wrote about in the book was, you know, there's this principle, you are what you eat, but really it's, you are what you eat what they ate and not just ate their entire lifestyle. Like, like I was writing, one of the things that we discovered was, and you already know this probably, but if a cow eats grass, they have more omega 3s in their diet, right in their tissue. So that's why you want to do grass fed meat. But they also have more amino acids per calorie, they also have different amino acid ratios, they have more carnosine, they have more creatine, they have more taurine, they have more vitamin E. So I mean, it's a really big deal. And even the sun matters how much sun they get. So there are, there is a lot of evidence and that eating animals the right way is, you know, is pretty darn important. So anyways, the biblio diet, I would say there's some overlap with kosher, but it really goes a step beyond of, of making sure that foods are also in alignment with God's design.
- [33:43]
B
So would you say that grass fed is more important than organic?
- [33:48]
A
It's an impossible question for me to answer because if you had to pick one, you know, I would probably say to me, I'm going to bet more on grass fed than organic because of that reason of, because the percentage in which I think that when I'm shopping at a local farmer's market and it doesn't use the term organic, but knowing those farmers probably use less pesticides on their feed or no pesticides at all, it's just a gamble I'm taking, it's not a good answer. And also thinking about, okay, what's my bigger problem? Am I overburdened with toxins? Is that a bigger issue for me? Or, or am I more inflamed? And I have more of an issue of certain nutritional deficiencies. So it's a toxicity deficiency sort of, you know, decision.
- [34:35]
B
So why is shrimp so expensive then, if it's the most disgustingly dirty thing in the world and yet it's the most expensive thing to eat besides lobster?
- [34:44]
A
I'm guessing because it tastes good.
- [34:45]
B
I mean, it tastes good, but it's not like it's like, it's not like it's that rare. You can find shrimp and. And they're dirty, but yet, like, it's a delicacy. It's considered a delicacy. Do you. Do you eat it or nothing? You won't eat it?
- [34:56]
A
No, I haven't eaten it for 20 years. I think the last time I had it, I was probably 19. I'm 44, 25 years.
- [35:02]
B
Oh, wow. Okay, so then. Yeah, okay, I have. Okay, so wait, I want to ask you more questions about the biblio. Okay, so what are the superfoods of the. Of the biblio diet?
- [35:13]
A
Yeah, yeah, so. So. So there are several, I would say. Well, let me. Let me hit on the ones that fly in the face of sort of modern culture today.
- [35:20]
B
Okay.
- [35:21]
A
Bread.
- [35:23]
B
Yes.
- [35:24]
A
Red meat, salt, and raw dairy. So bread in particular. Now let me say this. What I call it a superfood. You know, that's not one we really labeled a superfood in the book, but it's one that we said most people can tolerate well if it's done right. Let me just say this. Most people, bread has got a bad rap because most diets today, or almost all bread today, is just bad bread. It's from hybridized grain. It's then been stripped of the bran, so there's no fiber. You're not absorbing nutrients. It's been fortified with synthetic vitamins that are probably not even good for you. And so there are all of these. There's all these issues with it. If you think about the way that Jesus, or when we read about any of these sort of ancient people that were eating bread, the way that it was likely done via. And I've read this in terms of the historians and what they were saying, the way the bread was done, the. They would have harvested it, they would have then soaked it and laid it out to dry in the sun. It's a process called sprouting. They would have then taken it and ground it up stone, ground it, and then they would have made it, fermented it, and made it into bread. And this is not wheat bread with caramel color or white bread or anything else. This was ancient grains, typically wheat, barley and rye. And the ancient grain Maybe it would have been Einkorn. There's a lot of other ancient wheats by the way as well. And this would have been turned into a sourdough bread. And when you soak it like that or ferment it, you're killing off all the phytic acid, which is known as a mineral binder. This is why when you're eating regular bread today, you're absorbing almost no nutrients. Because even the nutrients that are there, even though they're deficient, they're bound in a mineral binder, phytic acid. So you're like getting 10% of it when you sprout or ferment, unlock all the nutrients and now you're absorbing all of it. So some of these grains, like rye and barley in particular, I mean they're pretty, they, they have good nutritional, good nutritional value, especially when they're fermented. So we know in the, in, in when they're talking about bread in the Bible, it was pretty much all sourdough bread for the most part, or a good majority of it, or it was sprouted. And so, so that was a pretty, pretty good food at the time.
- [37:27]
B
What about people like today? Right. We're not. A lot of people don't have time to make their own sourdough bread. Right. So. Or yeah. Or are you assuming that they will? I don't know. Are you just saying to be much more conscientious of when you buy a bread to make sure it's, it doesn't have all of these, like the pro, the over processed, the ultra processed breads, like buy it from a, like a good provider. Basically.
- [37:50]
A
What I'm saying is, by the way, I'm not endorsing bread.
- [37:53]
B
No, I just.
- [37:55]
A
So, you know, I am saying that bread, bread is not a villain. And if you're going to eat bread, eat sourdough from ancient grains.
- [38:04]
B
That's what I find interesting because I never hear about sourdough. You hear eat multigrain. No whole wheat bread, sprouted bread, you know, any kind of grain bread. But I've never really heard sprouted. I've never heard of sourdough bread. One of those.
- [38:18]
A
Well, you don't live in the south, so if you lived in Nashville and some people juggle this, but there are like. My wife's been making sourdough for about three, four years now. A friend of Carrie Underwood, she started making it and Chelsea was talking to her and so she ended up making that. There are a lot, really there are a lot of homesteaders in the south and if Listen, if you're on this podcast or YouTube or social media listening to this and you make it stand, you know, I'd like to hear from you here. But there are so many. I mean, you'd be shocked at how many women now are making sourdough bread at home. You'd be shocked. So let me just say it's actually more prevalent than you probably realize. But you could go to Erewhon or Whole Foods Market. I said nobody's going to hardly. You can go to Sprouts, you can go to Publix, potentially. There's a brand called Rudy's that has sourdough spelt. There are a lot of local bakeries, I mean, all over Tennessee. You don't have to be in Nashville. You could be in Memphis or Knoxville or, you know, you know, all kinds of places and buy it at local bakeries. So you can find it today probably more easily than you think.
- [39:17]
B
I guess you could also just buy a bread maker like you said, and just make your own. It's probably not. It's like not that difficult. It's just, you know, it's like anything.
- [39:24]
A
It's incredibly difficult the first time and then after that it's incredibly easy.
- [39:28]
B
That's right, exactly. Okay, so talk about other ones that you were saying. Yeah, the red meat, the raw milk though, again, not so common. Right. What's the difference between buying organic milk and raw milk?
- [39:41]
A
I would say the only food that there's a bigger difference of today versus in the past than bread is milk. I mean, historically, if you think about the way that milk is probably consumed, it was raw, completely organic, and in many, many cases fermented. And so. And the genetics of the cows were actually different. So today with Holstein cows, they have a type of casein which is similar protein to gluten. It's in milk that tends to be more inflammatory to people. And it's called a one casein. Sheep and goats and human milk actually too, it's all a two casein, predominantly. And this sort of protein is easier to digest, doesn't cause the same levels of inflammation. So sometimes when we were doing genetic modification or I would call breeding, there was a genetic variant. You know how a lot of people today have mthfr?
- [40:34]
B
Yes.
- [40:34]
A
Gene mu. Yeah, well, well, imagine something like that happened. But in the proteins that were created a gene variant in Holstein cows and then that was passed on to Jerseys and certain other of. Of a lot of our modern day western cows today. And that protein is very inflammatory to people. Like gluten is and this is why, if you buy. Some people have noticed, oh, when I eat goat's milk or sheep's milk, I don't have allergies versus cow's milk. I do. It's typically not the fact that it's cow's milk. It's typically the fact that that type of cow has a one casein, which is almost all cow's milk today. So people can buy today a 2 dairy, which has the right genetic components in terms of the protein. So that's important. That's a big one. The other one is if a. If milk is pasteurized, you're heating it up, you're killing all the enzymes and all the bacteria. The bacteria are 99.9999-9999% of the time. Good bacteria that you need for digestion. And the enzymes you have to have like lactulose to even break down, break down or lactase to break down lactose. So. So all that being said, that's really important too, to not have it pasteurized. And then homogenization is a whole nother thing where you are destabilizing and denaturing the fats causing issues there. So that's very unhealthy. So, you know Jordan Rubin, I mentioned him before. He cured himself of ulcer of colitis and Crohn's disease. And almost the only thing he ate for 40 days was raw goat's milk, kefir. And people would say, oh, if you have a digestive issue, don't drink milk or don't have dairy. It was almost the only thing he ate. And he cured himself 40 from inflammatory bowel disease. So now he did a few other things too.
- [42:17]
B
What were the other few other things he did? Because that would make a difference.
- [42:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, I'll share.
- [42:22]
B
Yeah, yeah. Tell me what else he did. Because this is the same guy who I saw when I was researching you who said that he cured himself of cancer by praying, right? By having prayer.
- [42:32]
A
And this is all part of what we cover in the book, the Biblio Diet. So the number one food he concerned was fermentedary. He consumed carrot juice. He consumed some fruit like blueberries and figs, and he did a little bit of red meat. It was raw, though. It was raw beef, carpaccio and then salmon. And that's predominantly what he ate for 40 days. And he spent every day and night praying for healing. And he ended up 40 days reversing his ulcer, colitis and Crohn's.
- [42:59]
B
When was this?
- [43:01]
A
1999Ish.
- [43:03]
B
Oh, wow.
- [43:04]
A
Oh, a long time ago.
- [43:05]
B
Oh, wow. It never came back.
- [43:08]
A
No, no, no. I mean, he wrote a book called the Maker's Diet, and then he founded Garden of Life with all of this.
- [43:13]
B
Oh, so it happened before all of that?
- [43:16]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah, this happened. He was a frat. Actually, a little bit about Jordan. Jordan was at Florida State University. He was a male cheerleader. And I mean, he was. Yeah. And so male. Male cheerleaders. Somebody might feel like that's. You've got to be pretty big and strong to be a male cheerleader.
- [43:29]
B
Do you ever.
- [43:30]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, he was a big, strong guy, and he ended up losing. I want to say it was like he was over 200 pounds, lost, like 80 pounds. I mean, you should see he looked like a skeleton. I mean, literally, like. Like, he was. I mean, almost died. Was very, very sick. And so he. So here's what happened. This is crazy. So he had a man call him, and this is after he'd gone to Germany and Switzerland. I mean, he was going everywhere trying to find a way to heal. Got. Went conventional medicine, got put on antibiotics, all kinds of things. And he had a man hear about him, called his father. His father was a chiropractor. This other guy was a chiropractor and a naturopathic physician. And he called Jordan's dad, and he said, listen, I know a way to help your son heal. He said, if he follows a diet based on the Bible, he will heal. And Jordan was living in West Palm beach at the time. This man lived in San Diego, California. And he said, have him come out and live with me, and I'll show him exactly how to eat, how to do it, and what to do to heal. Jordan rented an rv, went out, moved to California, just lived in an rv, followed this protocol, and completely cured his Crohn's and colitis. And that's then what inspired him in natural health. He started working at a health food store, learned about supplements when he was working as a clerk and a. And just answering questions in a. In a health food store. Then he started selling supplements. Started at one with one product, because he did these probiotics that helped him heal. And anyway, so I could keep going, but overall, started Garden of life. Yeah.
- [44:56]
B
You know what's so interesting? I don't. Maybe you can explain this. You know, in the Jewish world, colitis and Crohn's. Crohn's are pretty prevalent. Like, growing up, I had a bunch of friends. Males. Not males, females. Yeah. I was going to Ask you why is colitis and Crohn so prevalent in the Jewish community?
- [45:16]
A
The reason is, is that Crohn's and colitis are tied to grief. Something has happened in the past that still bothers you today.
- [45:23]
B
Really.
- [45:24]
A
So think about it. I mean, I don't need to tell you this as somebody who's Jewish. I mean, think about your past. Think about the Holocaust. Think about all of the, all the injustice that's done to your people. I mean, and so the colon and the lower digestive tract, and this is. Now I'm talking about Chinese medicine, their view, or even German new medicine believes a similar thing, but it's that when you've had something happen in the past and it's still, You're. It's still living with you today in the form of. You're seeing it as a, as a. As it being something that's harming you or you're a victim in that way, it absolutely destroys your, your lower digestive system.
- [46:00]
B
That's really interesting. It must be subconscious. It has to be subconscious because these are kids. When they got it, of course, was it passed down from their parents? Anxiety or unknown anxiety or, or sadness?
- [46:13]
A
Well, I, well, listen, I think there's an epigenetic component. So I think that can be passed down. But listen, the par. Disposition will. Will. Will directly impact the child's disposition. So I mean, it's, you know, if you're, if your parent is very negative, one or two things happen more often that child stays negative or they're. They decide to use it for good and they go completely in the other direction.
- [46:35]
B
That's so true. Right. You go like you got. The pendulum swings the other direction for sure. So this is. So he then tell us the story about him and his cancer then. Because years later. Yeah, so.
- [46:47]
A
So here's what happened. So Jordan Rubin, this was about 15 years ago. Yeah, 14 or 15 years ago, was diagnosed with testicular cancer. And he went into me and this is the crazy part was this is in the middle of when he was growing garden of life. So nobody knew this this whole time. And the doctor told him, Jordan, I know who you are. If you don't do chemotherapy like I'm recommending, you will die in three months like it's a death sentence. You are 100% dead. Told him that Jordan got on his hands and knees and quoted Job when he left the room. And he said, naked I came into this world. Naked I will leave. You know, the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of The Lord. And so this is a verse in the book of Job. And Jordan said, I knew that God was calling me to follow a biblio diet, a plan of healing in the same way. So Jordan then started doing. His diet was similar. It was basically raw dairy, avocado, raw coconut cream. It was mostly fat. It was pretty ketogenic, a lot of salmon, cerviche, green vegetable juices. That was pretty much his whole diet. And daily praying. He had people placing their hands on him, praying for him for healing, anointing his head with essential oils. I mean, this whole. On protocol for 40 days, and he healed completely. Now, let me mention why he got testicular cancer, though. He had a distended testicle. And it was actually not like he. You couldn't see his testicle. Like, it was. It was in the wrong place in his body. And so the. The doctors, when he was an infant, said, we may want to do surgery here. And his dad said, I don't want to do that surgery. And so he didn't. But, like, if you don't have that surgery, your chance of getting cancer goes up, like, over. It's like, a thousand percent.
- [48:23]
B
Wow.
- [48:24]
A
So, like, his chance of getting cancer was incredibly high due to the fact.
- [48:30]
B
That it was descended.
- [48:31]
A
That's right.
- [48:31]
B
As a kid. And then he basically healed himself, or.
- [48:37]
A
As he would say, or I would say, you know, God healed him. But. And I think there's a distinction there in terms of, like, following God's guidance and influence. Right. In terms of. And praying daily for healing. I mean, we believe that something supernatural happens with prayer. I think prayer is effective. It matters. You know, with my mom, we followed a whole protocol, but we were praying daily. She was meditating on Bible verses daily. So I personally believe that while we have free will, God is intervening in our lives constantly, especially if we. If we ask him to.
- [49:09]
B
So basically, there's a huge. Like you were saying, a huge spiritual component to the biblio diet.
- [49:15]
A
Yeah.
- [49:22]
B
Okay, let's take a quick break to talk about something that's completely transformed how I approach design for my business. You know that moment when you need a logo or marketing materials or even a complete rebrand, but you have no idea where to start? I used to spend hours just scrolling through portfolios, wondering if I'd find someone who actually understood my vision. That's where 99designs by Vista completely changed everything for me. What I love about their platform is how they've made working with talented designers from around the world incredibly simple. You have two options. You can Run a contest where their entire creative community submits ideas and you pick your favorite. Or you can work one on one with a designer who is perfectly matched to your project. I've used both approaches and honestly the quality has blown me away every single time. From logos to complete branding packages, these designers just get it. And here's what's really setting them apart. They're with you from pitch to perfection, offering creative support every step of the way. So if you're ready to bring your brand vision to Life, head to 99designs.com gen20. That's the number, 99designs.com gen20 and click claim my discount to get $20 off your first design contest. Your brand deserves this level of creativity. 20. Trust me. So let's talk about. I want to. There's a bunch of things I want to talk about. Anxiety.
- [51:02]
A
Yeah.
- [51:02]
B
And some natural alternatives to SSRIs that you talk about.
- [51:07]
A
Yeah.
- [51:07]
B
Right. Because I feel like we're in a world right now where everybody is now just easily put on some antidepressant or anti anxiety medication.
- [51:18]
A
Girls in high school and college earlier. I mean it's so early, earlier now. It's heartbreaking.
- [51:24]
B
It's. I mean I am, I'll be shunned again by saying this, but I know people who are like my kid, my kids age, who are like 10, 11, 12 years old and their parents are putting them on Adderall and putting them on anti anxiety antidepressants. I'm like, how the hell do you know if your kids are depressed at 11 years old and they. I get pushback all the time. So it's a real. I think that's, I think that is the new pandemic that we're facing in the world.
- [51:50]
A
I talk about this regularly. When I first opened my functional medicine practice, the most, the fastest growing conditions were childhood obesity, childhood diabetes again, hypothyroidism, testosterone levels being a problem. All those things today over the last five to seven years, mental health disorders, depression, anxiety. That's definitely the identity issue. Is the fastest growing problem.
- [52:11]
B
That's the fastest growing. Do you think it's, do you. And I, I want to be careful how I say this, but do you think a lot of this is just self induced? Do you think it's because of social media that people are just labeling themselves quicker with like anxiety issues and depress all these mental health issues? Or do you really think it's a, it's a symptom of a bigger problem that's happening?
- [52:33]
A
I think it's all those things. So Let me hit on three ideas around that.
- [52:35]
B
Okay?
- [52:36]
A
One is it's a misdiagnosis in terms of adhd. So I was the child who was get prescribed Adderall, like Ritalin when I was younger than Adderall in college, took it for three days. I felt like a zombie. And I'm like, something's not right here. I'm not going to stay on this. And here's the thing, like, are we supposed to take boys and just shove them in a classroom for eight hours and say just sit there and don't move?
- [52:58]
B
Exactly.
- [52:59]
A
It's craziness. Are you. I mean, it's crazy. I mean that's documented so many people that you would say like Einstein, like, oh, he has adhd. Yeah. It just so, so overall, I mean it's what we're doing in terms of just prescribing drugs for things. They never fix. The. That's, that's something I don't think people fully have grasped yet. A drug cannot heal you. A drug has never reversed hypothyroidism, it's never reversed autoimmune disease, it's never reversed heart disease. Yes, your numbers change, but the root of what's actually happening has never fully fixed. So I do think that there is a problem of one, we're treating it completely wrong. That I do think some of it's not even real to the point, at least the way we think it is. And then the other thing I would say is I think that if somebody feels sad, that's normal. Sometimes you should feel sad, sometimes you should be down. So sometimes we're drugging things that are minor, that are just part of life that we should never. And then, but to then continue with this because we become less religious, we have more identity issues, we have less purpose in life. I mean, think about like I'll just share this for myself. As a Christian, I believe that I am called to love people, love God, make earth a heavenly place. Like, I believe that I'm called to take the Garden of Eden, make the entire world a Garden of Eden. Like I have so a sense of like when I have kids, like I have kids right now, like my five year old and my two year old daughter. Like for me, I have so much purpose of knowing. I'm called to help them live for eternity. I want to find their greatest character qualities and make them more like Christ and grow in character. I wanna take their skills. Like my daughter just came from swim lessons. Like my wife was sending me videos and I'm like, okay, she's really good at swimming. Okay, let's help her do everything she can to get better at that. Like, I have such a sense of purpose and identity, of knowing I'm a child of God and I'm gonna live for eternity. So, like, that just fuels me now. Take someone else who doesn't believe there's a God. There's no eternity. There's. All this is. There's a level of nihilism there. God, I'm depressed now thinking about it. So when people especially are outside of the Judeo Christian worldview, there is a lack of purpose and identity there. Or if somebody is non religious and we are living, I mean, the United States specifically is far less religious and spiritual. And even the Eastern spirituality that people talk about today, like, here, here's what meditation is in Eastern world religion. Empty yourself, you know, just think of nothing. Like, like that's the whole thing. No, the Judeo Christian view is. No. Fill yourself with the spirit of God. Meditate and chew on what is love, what is kindness. How can I. Like, you're actually filling yourself with something.
- [55:37]
B
Oh, I understand. So you're saying, like, it's a very. It's on trend and popular to sit in meditation and not think of anything. Like, to basically, like, have zero thoughts, clear your mind. Yeah, zero thought.
- [55:49]
A
I mean, the. The Buddha did that. So I mean, that's the, you know, part of where it's coming from. So.
- [55:53]
B
But y. Yeah, but you're saying the Judeo Christian is the way of, like, having like these positive, good energy, life thoughts that actually help nourish you and it's way more. Way more beneficial.
- [56:07]
A
Yeah. Like on the flight here, I was reading the book of Joshua, you know, and very early on.
- [56:11]
B
That's easy, easy reading for the plane.
- [56:14]
A
Well, yeah, I mean, I like to read my Bible. So I was reading and I was reading, and basically God is telling Joshua, like, do not be terrified. Do not be discouraged. And one of the things he tells him is, he said, meditate on my word day and night. Then you will be prosperous and successful. He's telling you, I want you to meditate. But what do we want to meditate on? My word on the psalms, on the proverbs, on the, you know, on the. Well, then it would have been more the Torah. Right, but like Genesis, like, meditate on my words day and night. So it's not meditating on nothing. It's definitely meditating on something.
- [56:46]
B
On something. Yeah.
- [56:47]
A
Yeah.
- [56:47]
B
So. So tell me then, for people who are on a lot of these medications, what are Some natural alternatives for them.
- [56:54]
A
Yeah, well, number one thing people need to do is find identity and purpose.
- [57:00]
B
That's a good one.
- [57:01]
A
It's the single biggest thing people are missing today. And so I would say find your. And the way you build identity is you do it by attaching yourself to something or someone and finding your role. Okay. So you know, people do this a lot of times. They, if they don't, if they don't have a religion, they'll do it with politics or some social movement or something like that. But you want to find the most. Yeah, so you want to find your identity and purpose. The other thing I would say you want to do is you want to just live by God's design. When the sun goes, goes down, start getting ready for bed. When it comes up, start getting outside. Spend more time outside. Vitamin D is good move. If you're not moving, you're. It's going to affect your neurotransmitters. So overall have really good daily habits. Walking outside, exercising outside. We're meant to be social creatures. I mean, we are meant to love one another, connect with one another. Like today, what most people do for their meals, I'm going to shovel down breakfast, then lunch. I'm going to be working while I'm eating lunch, I'm getting home at night. Maybe I'm eating at 9pm or there's soccer practice or whatever. So, you know, sitting down and having deep intimate conversations with people in front of you, your family, your friends, those sort of things, that's incredibly important. Cast sharing your stressors with other people that you can trust. The Bible says cast your cares on him because he cares for you. Like, you know, spending time in prayer, knowing that God hears it and waiting for that still small voice, that consciousness that you can hear speak back to you. So I think these are the biggest needle movers now in terms of diet. Lower carb, higher fat. I mean, it's pretty important. Higher protein, higher fat. I mean, you know, lots of omega threes that's been shown in studies. So that's salmon, walnuts, chia seeds. You know, those sort of foods are going to be really good. So more of the fatty fish taking an omega 3 supplement. Herbs tend to be pretty good. Saffron, probably the best of all or one of the best.
- [58:51]
B
I heard that.
- [58:52]
A
Amazing.
- [58:52]
B
I heard that saffron is the like kind of the best antidepressants. That's natural besides exercise.
- [59:01]
A
Agreed, totally agree. Saffron's amazing though. I promise it is so expensive.
- [59:06]
B
It's. I was going to say, you know, expensive. That is going to cost 100 bucks every day.
- [59:10]
A
Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I would say if you're going to buy it, buy it in bulk and buy it in powder form because that's going to get you the biggest bang for your buck on saffron.
- [59:17]
B
But is there research to back this up properly? What is the actual data on Saffron for an antidepressant?
- [59:24]
A
Yeah. So the one study, and I want to say it was 88.5 milligrams. I know that because I was formulating a supplement for it based on the clinical study. So it's around 88.5 milligrams. And basically it was just, it was a double blind study. Shown to improve mood by how much though? You know, I don't, I don't, I don't have the percentage memorized on saffron in terms of how much it improved mood. But I do know they had a, they did have a placebo group because.
- [59:50]
B
To me, the only thing that I've ever had work for me when I, in terms of when I got sad or like anxious or whatever, I moved, I went for a walk, I changed my environment.
- [60:01]
A
It's huge.
- [60:01]
B
To me that's like the, that, that's the number one antidepressant. It works every time. It will always shift your mood and. But people just don't want to do it.
- [60:11]
A
Yeah. There's also studies on if you're growing in life.
- [60:15]
B
Yeah.
- [60:16]
A
It actually gives you a great level of satisfaction and happiness versus if you're not. So like, if you feel stuck in life, like you're not moving forward, that's a, that's another thing. And that's where it's like, commit yourself to learning something even if it's not going to pay off tomorrow. Something you can really learn and grow towards.
- [60:34]
B
Right. It's that personal growth part that makes a big difference. You're a big guy that talks. Not a big guy, but you're a guy that talks quite a bit about essential oils. What are the benefits of essential oils? Are there specific ones that people should be focused on that really help with, with moving the needle in one area and another?
- [60:53]
A
Yeah. You know, here's what I'll say. My. I've done a sort of a mix of essential oils based on their historical than even some of the modern science today. I think essential oils are great and have a lot of benefits. Again, just with all supplements, including those, unless you're really deficient in something, I don't think they're A miracle or a cure in a lot of cases. But I do think they're a really great part of our daily lives. I think that there are studies on lavender oil for sleep. Yeah, it's really good for that.
- [61:21]
B
What do you do with it though? Do you put it on your like, do you put it here on your pulse or palm?
- [61:26]
A
Yeah, I tend to put it more to where my. It's going to go. Getting more in my sinuses. So rub it a little bit more my neck or even under my nose.
- [61:32]
B
Oh, okay.
- [61:32]
A
So that's where I tend to put it. But so if you're going to use it topically, a 60 milligram dose, which is what is in a lot of the studies, that's about one drop of an essential oil.
- [61:43]
B
Okay, so that's for sleep. Lavender is great. I love that one.
- [61:45]
A
Yeah. Holy basil. That's a good one. That was known as Tulsi as well. That's great for stress relief. It's a natural adaptogen. There. There was a study at Vanderbilt University on doing citrus oils like orange oil and that actually calming patients coming out of surgery and going into surgery, including the nurses. So there was a good study there. A limonene oil and citrus oils, they're not distilled, they are pressed and they've been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years for moving, supporting fat digestion and moving lymphatic. For lymphatic stagnation.
- [62:18]
B
What's that oil called?
- [62:19]
A
It's citrus peel oil.
- [62:21]
B
Oh, citrus peel.
- [62:22]
A
But anytime you see lemon oil or orange oil or grapefruit oil, those are actually citrus peel oils. So all of those because of delimonene and some of the other compounds, those would all fall into that category. So I mean there, there, there are a lot. I mean, I think topically helichrysum is amazing to prevent scarring. I think sandalwood and frankincense are good for. As part of a blend for skin cancers.
- [62:46]
B
Really? Frankincense is that, I've heard of that as a really good healing. It can also starve off getting sick. Is that, have you heard of that?
- [62:53]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think generally, you know, the oil itself is most studied for maybe its immune properties. The powder, which we call boswellia or boswellic acid is most studied for its anti inflammatory properties. We pair that a lot with turmeric for those benefits. So in the Bible it talks a lot about these different essential oils and their uses. There's actually an ancient blend called the holy anointing oil. And we read about this. Both in the Old Testament like when King David is being anointed and Solomon is king and it was a mixture of olive oil and I'm going to get most of these oils correct, cassia, cinnamon, calamus and I want to say myrrh, but they would anoint king's heads with it. But it also in the book of James it says if you're sick, go to the elders of the church, have them lay their hands on you and pray for healing. Have them anoint your head with oil and you will be made well. So this is probably one of the most clear things in the entire Bible in terms of if you're sick, this is what you should do to, to heal.
- [63:53]
B
Also, I know you like coconut oil.
- [63:55]
A
Yeah. Huge fan of coconut oil internally and as a carrier oil.
- [63:58]
B
I was going to say I actually like putting it on my body. It's a great moisturizer. Yeah, right.
- [64:03]
A
Yeah.
- [64:03]
B
People don't use it enough and it's like cheap.
- [64:06]
A
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I think coconut oil is great because it's saturated and I think that's more in line with what our skin is. This is another reason why I actually think beef tallow is another great one.
- [64:15]
B
I was going to ask you about beef tallow skin.
- [64:17]
A
Yeah, I like it a lot for. Because it's probably the most similar to the oils we actually have on our own skin because it comes from an animal.
- [64:22]
B
So. Because I know right now it's like super trendy to make everything with beef tallow, sunscreens and moisturizers. So you think it's not just a trend, like just a trendy thing. You think it's really effective?
- [64:32]
A
Well, do I think it's trendy?
- [64:34]
B
Yeah.
- [64:35]
A
Yes. But I think what's old is new, you know. And, and let me say this. I think it depends upon the person. Like I. There are some people out there that saying you should never have a seed oil and you should. And beef tallow is the best healthy thing for everyone. I don't think that like I think that there are certain types of seed oils if they're cold pressed and prop. Flaxseed oil is a seed oil.
- [64:57]
B
Yeah.
- [64:57]
A
Like Ayurvedic used cold pressed sesame oil as their number one oil they consumed in India. So for ayurvedic medicine. So. So I try not to put blanket statements on there like never have seed oils because there definitely are some seed oils that are fine and healthy as part of a balanced diet. And there's some people that might do better, especially with Those raw ones I'm talking about than doing a lot of butter or tallow. But I also believe there are people that do really well with these high saturated fats like butter and tallow, and they can benefit from consuming that. I'll show you, like, my body type. I do coconut oil. I thrive with. I do real well with extra virgin olive oil as well.
- [65:33]
B
Me too.
- [65:34]
A
Those are the two oils I thrive on. If I do too much butter or beef towel, like, I don't feel well. But my wife's different. My wife can eat beef towel all day and they do great with it. So I just think, you know, some of it depends on what we talked about earlier. Every single person should have a diet that's specific to their body type. And like, if I have a patient with cancer versus inflammatory bowel disease, those are very different diets. Inflammatory bowel disease is like soup, soup and more soup. Like all cooked meat, really well cooked vegetables, maybe even some rice, congee and, you know, things like that. And then some of the cancer. I'll probably do a lot of juice vegetables, a lot of raw. Those sort of.
- [66:12]
B
Why?
- [66:13]
A
Because I think with cancer. So in Chinese medicine, that's known as a chi. It's basically, it's stagnation. One of the biggest causes of cancer is things are stuck and they're not moving. So you want to really move the body a lot and you want to address nutritional deficiencies and toxicity. Max Gershon, who developed Gerson Therapy, believed that one of the best ways to do that is to flood the body with nutrients. What's the best way of doing that? With whole food, nutrition, juicing, vegetables. You know what else he juiced? This is going to sound gross and crazy to people. Raw beef liver. He took raw calf liver from young calves and juiced it. And so the Gerson diet. Now, originally that's what they did. Then some other people took over and they're like, oh, that can't be good because it's an animal product. So, like, and then now I think they do maybe recommend desiccated liver as tablets. But overall, that's what he did, because beef liver is probably the most nutrient dense food there is. So, so, so, so Gerson therapy. And if you're combining that with the Chinese medicine ideals as well, you're doing lots of organ meats, you're doing lots of vegetables in berries and those things where you're really flooding the body with nutrients and then you're really supporting the body's detoxification protocol. That's why he Also recommended some coffee, enemas, things to really help release bile and flush toxins out of your system. And so anyways, with cancer, you also want to go very high enzymes. And there's some studies on doing a lot of proteolytic enzymes. And enzymes are very good for breaking down what we call senescent cells in the body and cancer cells. But enzymes are also very reactive. They're moving. They help things happen within the body. So. So overall, when somebody has cancer, you really want to just. You really want to move things. Turmeric and ginger together are also very good to do for that.
- [67:53]
B
God, you just said a bunch of things I wanted to ask you about. It's on my notes, but I can't see without my glasses. But basically you said something about. Okay, number one organ meats you talk about in the book. Yeah, as a big. As a big super nutrient.
- [68:05]
A
It's the number. It's the number one food we're missing in our society today.
- [68:09]
B
Major.
- [68:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, Organ meats. So, you know, there's this whole craze over peptides today.
- [68:13]
B
Do I know?
- [68:14]
A
Of course. Okay.
- [68:15]
B
Yeah. Every single person and their dog asks me about peptides daily.
- [68:19]
A
Yeah. So I, yeah, I've done a lot of studying on peptides and a lot of research, and I am a big fan of peptides for the most part. I will say this, the number one place you find peptides in nature is in organs. I mean, so like Chinese medicine, if you would have go in or even a lot of these biblical physicians like Maimonides probably and others, they would have prescribed and recommended if you're sick, herbs, mushrooms and glandulars or organs that you would take as a supplement, essentially. And so BPC157, that body protective compound that's found in your gastric juices and your stomach and your duodenum, you know, Thymos and Alpha 1 or Thymulin, these peptides today that people take as well, like that TB 500, you know, that's found in the thymus gland. You know, that's a big part of your immune system. So actually, people for thousands of years have taken thymus gland to fight cancer or immune issues. And so peptides are natural compounds found in our organs and glands. And if we were eating more liver and kidney and heart and things like our ancestors did, then we wouldn't be as deficient as we are today. So I think people, I think people can take peptides, get a lot of benefits from them if they're taking them correctly. You know, whether it's subcutaneous or some are absorbed well orally. But I think there's lots of benefits of peptides. My point there is organ meats are where you're getting those. Like if you, if somebody had. The principle is called like heals. Like if you have a heart issue, eat heart. If you have a liver issue, eat liver. If you have a thyroid issue, what should you take for your thyroid? Thyroid gland. You should take that as a. In fact, you know the number one natural thyroid medication, armor or NP thyroid or natrothroid. Those are from beef and pig thyroid glands. They just take the thyroid gland and they really. Yeah, yeah, that's what armor is.
- [70:08]
B
So wait a second, are you telling me that you eat heart? You.
- [70:12]
A
Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. But let me say this, listen. My palate is not adapted to the bitterness. I mean, listen, I like chicken liver fine. I will salt with garlic and onions. I like ketchup with it. I saute in coconut oil or olive oil. And I like liver fine. I like liver pate too. So that's all fine with me. But heart actually does not taste bad either. But the way that I get it, like I buy a brand, it's called Forces of nature and it's beef heart and liver in there. And then I take organ, a multi organ supplement regularly too.
- [70:46]
B
So you do. You know, when I was a kid, my mom would force me to eat liver. Do you remember that when you're a little boy? And ever since then I haven't had a thing. I haven't had it. But it is like, I think it's known to be like the healthiest thing in the world.
- [71:00]
A
It's the most nutrient dense.
- [71:01]
B
But how do you, how do you stomach it? Like can you just take like you said, a capsule?
- [71:06]
A
Yeah, yeah. People can take capsules and tablets today. Easy, super easy.
- [71:09]
B
Okay, so what, okay, so can you send me, I'm curious. I would take that because what, what would be some benefits? What would be some of the things I would notice in my overall health by me taking one of these like organ either eating organ meat or taking a supplement of it?
- [71:27]
A
Well, I think for most people if you are deficient in a nutrient that it's high in or a peptide it's high in, then you're going to notice a difference.
- [71:35]
B
Like iron for example. Like so many are low in iron.
- [71:38]
A
Well, yeah, well, I mean, you know iron and the other things you need to build blood, like B12 and folate, I mean those are found in very high levels in heart, in liver, coenzyme Q10 as well. Carnosine, taurine, creatine. I mean, all those are in heart as well. So, so yeah, I mean, I think women could really benefit from, from liver and heart specifically. Also ovary and uterus. I mean, those are good for, I think women going through menopause. All women really, of all ages. And then if you have a thyroid issue, thyroid and adrenal would be great as well. But, but I would say the nutrients that they're the highest in are B vitamins, iron. I want to say thyroid has some selenium. So, but, but they're, they're, they're pretty high in. I mean, they're more nutrient dense than vegetables. I mean, people take today superfood greens powder. What do you notice there? Well, the organ glandular supplements are going to be probably just as potent or more so.
- [72:29]
B
Okay, so if people have like a bad heart, like, you know, people are all. So many people are on statins and all these things, why are they not taking like a heart supplement? Like you just said, like one of those, or eating heart.
- [72:40]
A
I mean, do we have another hour? I mean, I'll try and do this in one minute, but I mean, listen, I mean, you can't. These, the margins are not near as good. I mean, you gotta understand with these drugs, the drugs they make for pennies. Yeah, they make. It's virtually no cost. And then you get to mark up something a hundred times. I mean, so forever. Forever. So, I mean, that's why, I mean, listen, here's something. And I will debate anybody on this. If you send me almost anybody, send me anybody with, you know, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and, you know, I'll fix it. Give me almost anybody with type 2 diabetes. And if they follow the plan I lay out, they will reverse their type 2 diabetes and very quickly.
- [73:27]
B
What would you do? Give me the plan for anybody listening.
- [73:30]
A
Yeah, type 2 diabetes, high protein, high fiber and moderate fat and lower carb. And so, you know, it's mostly meat and vegetables. There you go. That's, you know, so you eat that and then I'm going to have you do berberine, 500 milligrams per meal. I'm going to do chromium picolinate, 200 micrograms per meal. I'm going to have you do vitamin D and magnesium. I'll have you do an herbal tea blend of cinnamon, fenugreek and gymnosa every single day. And I'm going to have you exercise. Ideally a combination of weight training, just walking outside to reduce Stress and someone will reverse their type 2 diabetes incredibly fast. I've helped so many people reverse their type two, and that one's easy. I mean, there are others that are.
- [74:11]
B
Maybe more easy one.
- [74:12]
A
But the same thing is true for hypothyroidism, for low testosterone, for pcos. PCOS is an insulin issue too, by the way. So. But with. With a lot of these. And I'm not trying to be overconfident here. I just have experienced this with patients. And so today the pro. The problem is, is that the pro. The problem. There's. There's several problems. One is if you give somebody the option of a pill and then their doctor tells them you're healthy now, you're normal, and they think they are. Well, of course, who's not going to choose taking a pill over exercising if they don't like exercising now? You. And I like it. Like, I wouldn't feel normal. Like, not exercise. I would just feel so bad. But some people can live with that. But it's. Yeah. So, you know, but that's also kind.
- [75:01]
B
Of like with the GLP ones. Right?
- [75:03]
A
Like, there you go.
- [75:04]
B
People are losing 50 pounds. Like, if you look around the world, literally around the world, everyone's thin now. You think that's natural? You think everyone's just thin because they're just now exercising and eating right? No, everyone's shooting themselves up.
- [75:16]
A
Well, in GLP1, people are losing. I mean, one study found 40% of the. Of the mass they're losing is muscle mass for 1000%.
- [75:24]
B
Are you looking at people walking around? They're basically. They're skinny fat now, is what.
- [75:28]
A
That's right. That's exactly.
- [75:29]
B
They're skinny fat. People are taking. The GLP ones are now skinny fat. The GLP2s. Right. Which is like more like the tri. Zepatides, I guess.
- [75:36]
A
Yeah.
- [75:37]
B
Right. They're a little bit like, you don't lose your appetite as much. Yeah, but what are the side effects with that one?
- [75:43]
A
I'd be honest. I haven't. I haven't.
- [75:45]
B
Besides the fact that, like, again, these are all. These are not behavioral. Like, these are not changing and modifying. Modifying behavior. And you're a doctor.
- [75:54]
A
Yeah.
- [75:55]
B
You know, the problem I'm seeing is that now everybody's relying on them. They're not changing and modifying their behavior.
- [76:01]
A
Yeah.
- [76:02]
B
They're on. So are they going to just be on this for life? Like, I don't understand.
- [76:05]
A
Let me say this. Do I think that the entire world would be, especially the Western world, would be much healthier if we eliminated all GLP1. Yeah. People would be healthier, I think generally. Now let me say this. You know, there are probably some statistics to where certain diseases, Right. Decrease with taking GLP1. But do I think it increases overall longevity and decreases mortality? No. Here's another one. Do I think we would be better off getting rid of 90 plus percent of all medications in all of 90% of all mainstream medicine? Yes, yes, we would be healthier for it. I mean, if we keep emergency medicine, true emergency medicine, I want to keep that. We're the best in the world at that. But healthcare, I mean, if you're comparing us to Japan or you know, a number of these other countries, we're not even, we're not even close.
- [76:54]
B
No, we're not even close.
- [76:55]
A
We ranked like one of them. It's either life expectancy or quality of Life. It's number 70.
- [76:59]
B
I think on both. I mean, and especially now it's even gotten worse. I mean, I think it's be getting progressively worse. The fact that like nobody has health, but also they make it impossible to have health insurance and it's so expensive. Yeah, all the doctors now don't want to be a doctor. They all want to be a concierge doctor, which is very expensive. And like, no offense to you, I know you're a functional medicine doctor, but most of the people in the world can't afford to see you. Not. Well, actually you too. You guys are expensive. You guys, the tests are rarely, all the testing is, are super expensive. It's not a cheap thing. They make it for the top 1 or 2% of the world to be able to afford it.
- [77:38]
A
I mean, here's what would fix most problems. And one, let me say this too though. I believe that going to see a functional medicine doctor will save you more money, not to mention save your life.
- [77:47]
B
You think so?
- [77:48]
A
It will save you more money in the long term.
- [77:50]
B
How?
- [77:50]
A
Well, one, you'll pay less on insurance premiums.
- [77:53]
B
Well, you guys don't take insurance. But what happens if there's an emergency?
- [77:56]
A
Yeah, but what you're paying. Because listen, insurance gets expensive when you have a preexisting condition.
- [78:03]
B
Oh yeah, it does.
- [78:03]
A
So my point is you're pretty. You're paying more on your insurance. I mean, that really adds up over time. But, but the reality is, I mean.
- [78:09]
B
Do you still see patients? Do you actually? You do you actually.
- [78:12]
A
Well, so, so the way that I work today is I have a team of practitioners. I run a telemedicine, a virtual practice called the Health Institute. And so we have people come in regularly, but I have a group of practitioners that work on my team. So I don't see people one on one, but I do group calls once a week and I'll troubleshoot with like the patient. Everyone can attend, ask me questions, live, go through that with everybody. The hard cases I go through, I work with the practitioners on the cases. So I'm not doing one on one calls with people right now. But I do run it, you know, a virtual practice and work with cases every day.
- [78:48]
B
So do you think that if someone has to choose between a regular doctor, like when I say like an MD doctor or functional medicine, you think functional medicine is a better call because they are getting more to the root of the problem and they'll save money on, like on the long term.
- [79:02]
A
Yeah. And listen to the amount they'll save long term. My point is, is that you will pay a lot for insurance if you maintain the same condition in the poor health that you have versus if you can reverse the condition and pay less for insurance, much less, that will save you some money. But overall, I mean, the reality is functional medicine, or what I do, I'd probably call it more personalized cellular medicine, but more of that personalization there, which I think is a little different. It's a form of functional medicine, but I think it goes kind of a step further. But, but you know that the thing that people have to think about is like, what's your life worth and your quality of health? Right. I mean, it's. I mean, there's an investment there. There's no doubt about it. But I will say if we changed our entire health care system to where doctors, rather than prescribing drugs, the only thing they did was prescribe diets, supplements and lifestyle changes like exercise. That's not expensive. That doesn't have to be expensive.
- [80:00]
B
No, it doesn't have to be.
- [80:01]
A
And it fixes 70 and that fixes. Yeah, at least 70. I agree with you. Yeah.
- [80:05]
B
Why is everybody now prescribing or talking about microdosing these GLP ones?
- [80:11]
A
Yeah, because the side effects are less. I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's. That's the only reason. Listen, I. You know, I guess the way that it probably works is people that have these major cravings, it takes the edge off to where it's not totally fixing the problem. It's kind of like this. It's like some people, it's like, hey, you've got low energy. Let me give you 500 milligrams of caffeine let me give you so much every hour that you're just, versus well they're saying that hey here, here, here, here's some oolong, here's some ribose or here's some green tea, just you know, one cup a day. I mean so, so the micro dosing is around 18 of the dose to 110 of the dose probably. So, so it's going to be, it's quite a bit less and if somebody, it's not going to do near the harm. Not even close to where the, the full doses of GLP1 was. In fact I don't even know if I have a problem with microdosing myself. I, I don't think it's the right fix. I think I would rather have somebody just eat more protein and fiber because they're going to get just as good or better results.
- [81:07]
B
This is what the, the, I mean I'm telling you the doctor, the very well known doctor here but like that is good for inflammation. The microdosing is good for inflammation. It's good for brain health in terms of brain fog focus, like those are the three keys. Oh and they say now for menopause symptoms this is what, that's what's being touted. I'm not saying it's accurate and like.
- [81:28]
A
I don't have enough, I don't know that first I don't think there's enough research on it.
- [81:32]
B
I don't think there's enough research on any of it.
- [81:33]
A
We're understanding how it works physiologically to, for us to make a lot of big conclusions right now. But do I think a micro dosing is harmful to people? I, I'll say this, I don't think it's probably that bad. So I don't, I don't. Listen, I'm against this ultra dosing of GLP1. I am like as against it as anybody else any more than anybody I can think of. But the micro dosing I don't think is probably that bad. But would I ever recommend it? I, I don't recommend it. I think people should just not do it. Change your lifestyle. And I was gonna say how many people take berberine? I'd rather you take that.
- [82:06]
B
What's, what does berberine do?
- [82:08]
A
So berberine is a compound from the bayberry leaf similar to like curcuminoids or compound found in turmeric and they are probably found to be the most powerful blood sugar regulator. So they help with insulin resistance. So again for diabetics or pre diabetes which by the way like one out of every three Americans now have prediabetes. Think about that. One out of every three. It's incredibly high. So, so, so berberine is probably the most effective herbal compound for. For blood sugar. And then after that, it's probably, you know, just as a whole, you know, cinnamon, fenugreek and gymnosa are probably the next. And mulberry leaf is good, too.
- [82:49]
B
I want to know about fruit. Fruit's such a controversial. So stupid how controversial fruit is, but it is. You talk in your book about certain things, like the figs, papaya. What in your opinion is the most like pound for pound, and you cannot say blueberries.
- [83:05]
A
I won't.
- [83:06]
B
Okay. Is the best fruit for your health.
- [83:10]
A
Pomegranate.
- [83:11]
B
I love pomegranates.
- [83:12]
A
Yeah.
- [83:12]
B
And I had a feeling I did see it in there. It's a very biblical. It's very generous, like people love.
- [83:18]
A
Yeah, we love pomegranates. Well, pomegranates have a lot of benefits. One, they're incredibly high in fiber and they're incredibly high in antioxidants. So they're lower glycemic, similar to berries. But pomegranates have a unique compound called allegic acid. It's also found in raspberries and to a degree, in walnuts and pecans, but higher levels in pomegranates and raspberries. And this is a compound that about half of people can convert very well to something called urolithin A. And urolithin A is something people are buying today.
- [83:51]
B
Very popular.
- [83:52]
A
But here's the cool thing about ellagic acid from pomegranates. It not only turns into urlithin A, it turns into urolithin B, C, D, E. There are many, many more of these phytonutrients of urolithins that have many, many benefits. And so these are things that people maybe haven't even heard of before. But. But that's why pomegranate, it's a whole food source. You're going to get a much, much wider range of benefits than taking just a plain old urolith and a supplement. And this is really important for what we call mitochondrial biogenesis. It's great for recycling your mitochondria, for taking those damaged parts of damaged cells. Recreating mitochondria. Our mitochondria are the engines or power plants of our cells that give us energy, that gives our cells and our. All of our organs energy. So a lot of conditions today are tied to mitochondrial dysfunction, chronic fatigue Syndrome is probably the most prevalent. But also hypothyroidism, like I mentioned mentioned earlier, anything with low energy cancer is connected to mitochondrial dysfunction. There's a lot of conditions there, chronic infections. If you have long Covid and they're not healing, still mitochondrial dysfunction. So yeah, pomegranates to me are probably my favorite fruit for healing. Heart benefits too. Remember all the old pomegranate juice? But there were some studies then on just even the juice. But yeah, pomegranates would be my number one fruit for healing. And then after that they're probably, you know, just berries as a whole are good to get. And there's berries, berries that people don't even think about as berries like currants and Anaronia and of course Goji's amazing. But. But yeah, that'd be up there.
- [85:20]
B
What's your fear? What's your theory on colostrum? Is it useful? Is it a waste of time to take it?
- [85:26]
A
I think this is one that is very, very based on somebody's bio individuality. I think if some people, it can really be a strengthener of immunity. I think for some people it just won't do anything or maybe their body's even too sensitive to be able to deal with that sort of stimulation that can occur with colostrum. So I think my guess is this. And by the way, I don't think anyone knows this, but my guess is, is that people that do well with fermented dairy will likely do well with colostrum. But I think this is where some people, some people have lost the art of just listening to your body. Your body will tell you so much. If you eat something and you keep getting gas and bloating, don't keep eating that. Now sometimes there's like. Okay, let me give you one example though. When you're increasing your protein intake, yeah, you will get some gas and bloating because your body has to start to get used to creating enough of certain enzymes to break down the protein. And then even then later, if you have too much, well, then you'll still get gas and bloating. But so sometimes it's an adaptation issue. But I would say if this is months long and you're still having problems, when you eat a food, listen to your body, it's just not agreeing with you. You know, like I had a, I have a patient I'm working with right now and he has IBSD and, and I gave him a diet that was like all cooked food, you know, and so rather than a smoothie, what I have a lot of people do is I have them do a pumpkin smoothie for breakfast, have them do a 30 can of pumpkin. And I have them do vanilla, like a bone broth, like a protein powder that's made of bone broth, maybe another vanilla plant protein. And then I have them do pumpkin pie spice with a lot of ginger cinnamon and do that as a smoothie. And he ate that and along with a diet I put him on and he went from having 11 bowel movements a day down to just two. This is after just one week. And then I saw him again the next week and he's like, oh, man, I had like, you know, I'm up to like seven or nine bowel movements again today because I just. We're having, you know, just major problems there. And I said, well, what do you do differently? He's like, man, I'm still eating healthy, you know. He's like, this morning I went and I had yogurt and I had melon. And then I did and I'm like, Rob, like, okay, I know melon sounds incredibly healthy and I know yogurt sounds incredibly healthy, but you've got IBSD and your constitution right now is so cold and digestive system's so weak, you can't. Like it's going to wreck your system. You can't do it. And then we get him back on it. He does a lot of ginger turmeric tea too. And then it just fixes it again. But they're just things like that. Like people. There are so many people that are suffering with health issues and they think, oh, salads are healthier, smoothies are healthy or whatever. And if they just not even eat things that they would think of as healthier, sometimes it might be worse for them or they would think it would be, but it will actually completely fix and heal whatever their issue is.
- [88:06]
B
Can you take certain. Like what are some tests? Like basic tests or really. Or tests not. They don't have to be basic. That really tell you a great picture of someone's like true, like inside the health, like in the like deep in the innards of themselves.
- [88:20]
A
Yeah. The number one test is looking at your tongue. Oh, yeah.
- [88:26]
B
Like this.
- [88:27]
A
Exactly.
- [88:28]
B
Does it look healthy to you?
- [88:29]
A
Yeah, yours is actually one of the one. It's healthier than most.
- [88:33]
B
When we could say when the healthiest tongues you've ever seen.
- [88:36]
A
No, it's healthier than most because I've do this before. There are a couple things. You get a little bit of heat, but it's not too Bad.
- [88:42]
B
It's really hot in here, though.
- [88:43]
A
Well, it is very hot in here.
- [88:45]
B
You can open the door.
- [88:46]
A
But I'll give you an example. One thing I see in people is. So if some people have ridges like bite marks on the side of their tongue, that's called a spleen T deficiency or it's a digestive deficiency. That means your digestive system's weak. So we got to really warm it up and help do some things to strengthen digestive system. The other thing would be if somebody's tongue is pale, that is a type of anemia. We call it a blood deficiency. So we need to do a lot more red meat and beets and steamed greens and blood building foods coating on your tongue. Now we call that candida. We'll call it dampness as well. So your tongue will tell me the exact herbs you need to. It'll tell me a lot.
- [89:20]
B
I don't have any of that stuff. What do I have?
- [89:22]
A
So the only thing that you have is a little coating that's almost an orange yellow color on the back of your tongue. But it's very subtle. That just shows me that really, really the only thing I'm seeing is you've got a little bit of heat in your large intestine. And so what does that mean? It means that there's a little bit of inflammation in your large intestine. It's mild. But I would say, you know, something, you want to do things like spearmint tea, something like that, that'll start cooling it and just do some more cool. In fact, you actually are the opposite of some people. You would probably do well with like a coconut yogurt or a goat smoke yogurt or something like that.
- [89:53]
B
So what do I say? Away from.
- [89:55]
A
You probably want to stay away from things that are like some things that are very spicy, might bother your system possibly or make that slightly worse. But really, again, you're, you're, you have one of the healthier almost every time. When I, if I ever bring that up or somehow it comes up. Most people have major issues, deficiencies and problems. Yours is, you have one of the healthier. Seems like your system moves pretty well based on what I see there. But, but the other thing is there are blood tests. I like, like we do a test at the health institute where it's called a true health test. And we basically we look at micronutrients and organic acids. We also do vitamin D. So we do a number of tests. What we really focus on is vitamins and minerals and amino acids and Looking at. In essential fatty acids, like, where are those major deficiencies? That's my favorite test. I also like doing a hormone panel. And then another favorite is a GI map. Those are probably the three tests I run the most. And I can tell that along with looking at somebody's tongue and. And of course, their symptoms. I. I mean, I usually have everything I need to know. I mean, there's other tests sometimes I'll do on occasion, food sensitivities. I mean, there's. There's others. But those three I just mentioned are the. Probably the. I. There's a test also I really like. It's called an organ age test. And so I'm able to look at the age of basically all the different organs in the body based on different biomarkers. And that's pretty, pretty powerful as well for some people.
- [91:12]
B
Can I get all these tests?
- [91:13]
A
Yeah, yeah, I'll send them to you.
- [91:14]
B
No, I'm serious. Yeah, you're. Can I. And I mean this. You're very knowledgeable. I told you I liked you before you became so. Because I like the way you can tell. You're like, you're really smart. But there are people who are smart and the people who really kind of like, go underneath the hood and like, figure like, you really do go underneath the hood and you say things that not every. Like, things become so noisy. Right. Like, what I like about you is that, like, I always seem to learn something different when I listen to you.
- [91:41]
A
Well, one of the things again, when you have.
- [91:44]
B
You can pay me later.
- [91:45]
A
Yeah, well, when, you know, like, I get. For me, it was so much like when my mom was sick. It was like I got to figure out everything I got can. And the other thing is, I think I realized too, is that one, I, I just, I enjoy this. Like, I like learning. I'm like, if I do like, you know, some sort of, you know, personality profile, learner is always number one. But I enjoy learning. But, you know, I, I think I found that there are. Are probably quite a few people. And this isn't to knock anybody, but, you know, I think a lot of people, maybe even early on in the career, they learn a lot of studies or stats and they can spit those off, but. But I never, I don't know, I always wanted to understand philosophically and scientifically how does the body work? Why is that happening? And I always started asking, I don't know if you've heard of this, the five whys. Why? Well, why is that? Well, why is that? And understanding. And so. And I Think that helps me as a practitioner be able to understand that a little bit more. Kind of that general sort of philosophy. And by the way, the thing I like about the blood test too is, is that we do. These are. It's a blood spot. So, like you can do it at home on a little piece of cardboard. We have, you know, people that become patients do that just right on the. And then you just ship it in. It's so easy. I mean, it's a. You know what's gonna be so amazing in the future? Eventually we'll have like, this is an aura ring I wear. Like we'll be able to have or very similar to like those continuous glucose monitors. We'll probably be able to have those on in 20 years. And pull up our phone and it'll tell you what you're deficient. Everything you're deficient in that day and the exact meal you need, and you can probably have it delivered to your.
- [93:05]
B
Home in 10 minutes. I used to wear all the auras and all the Fitbits and all the things. And honestly, like, I felt it was more stressful than not.
- [93:13]
A
I see that with something for sure.
- [93:15]
B
No one needs to be wearing a continuous glucose monitor on your arm all day unless you are a real diabetic.
- [93:21]
A
Here's what I found. It was helpful for me to do for two weeks.
- [93:25]
B
Yes.
- [93:25]
A
And then I didn't need it again because I just knew, like. Like I was surprised. I found for fruit with myself, I can do one serving and I'm good. But if I ate two, like a really big servings of fruit.
- [93:37]
B
Yeah.
- [93:37]
A
Like, whoa. My blood sugar really jumped. I also found if I eat fruit around exercise, I'm fine too. But it was like. So one serving or around exercise, good to go two servings without exercise. My body does not like that. I also found like, potatoes. I'm like, oh, I ate all these potatoes. My blood sugar is gonna. It didn't. You know, I agree.
- [93:56]
B
But I think. But fruit, I eat so much of it. It bloats you. Because it's so much like. Like water and sugar and all the things. I love fruit.
- [94:04]
A
Yeah, same here.
- [94:04]
B
Yeah, I love it. But that's why I'm thinking, like, is it like, I don't. If I'm eating so much of it, maybe it's like too much of a good thing. Maybe I eat like, I can eat pounds of it again.
- [94:14]
A
Again. I think they're meant to be done one serving.
- [94:16]
B
Yeah.
- [94:16]
A
And. And not.
- [94:17]
B
And what you think one serving is? And what I do one Apple, you.
- [94:22]
A
Know, three fourths a cup, probably of blueberries. I mean, something like that.
- [94:25]
B
Like that.
- [94:25]
A
So, yeah.
- [94:25]
B
Okay, you have one more question and I'll let you go. Okay. Let's talk about, like, eczema and psoriasis. Like, that kind of thing. Because how. What. What makes it start to inflame again? Like what? Like, is it just stress? Life? Is it? I have a feeling. Tell me if there's a correlation between this. If you. If you're. If you're working out too intensely and you're. And your cortisol gets too high, it can inflame your skin. Is that just something I'm making up in my head?
- [94:50]
A
No, that's true. But let me say so on your tongue, back of the tongue, orange, yellow. That's damp heat in your large intestine. That's the cause of eczema. So when somebody has eczema, it's. Again, this is the Chinese medicine powder, but it's damp heat. So that's. There's yeast, there's bacterial or yeast overgrowth that's happening in the colon, and then there's also heat and inflammation there. So in that case, there are certain herbs that are really good for expelling damp heat. One really good one is pro for you, is probably. It's one most people probably haven't heard of yet. It's called sarsaparilla. Sometimes it goes by smilax. If it's affecting the liver, too. Chrysanthemum. Like people with rosacea, Chrysanthemum is by far the best herb they could ever take. Probably for most of them, gentianer. But it's really. More bitters, getting some more bitter greens in your diet, things like that, that helps flush some of that damp heat, and that typically is what you do. But like, exercise wise, if you're to the point where you're getting red in the face.
- [95:46]
B
No.
- [95:47]
A
Or. Or where you're creating a lot of heat, it could. It could make it worse. Or of course, if cortisol gets too high from over exercise, that. That, that definitely will bother it too.
- [95:55]
B
Can life stress just make you have.
- [95:57]
A
Of course.
- [95:58]
B
Yeah, that's.
- [95:58]
A
Well, I mean, life stress is really, in a way, everything. It's going to exacerbate everything. In Chinese medicine, that would typically be what we would call depleting your chi, or in Western medicine, depleting your mitochondria. Right. Too much stress. Your battery. It's like your body's battery is getting too low. So really, if your battery's low, that's affecting every single organ, every single cell in your entire body.
- [96:21]
B
Would you send me those things that I. Those herbs?
- [96:24]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [96:25]
B
I'm telling you, I wish you saw patients.
- [96:28]
A
I do. I see them in a group format. And I have practitioners. My practitioners are amazing. They are really, really good practitioners.
- [96:36]
B
How many do you have?
- [96:37]
A
See, we had about 18 or 20. I mean, so that's a lot. Yeah.
- [96:42]
B
That's amazing.
- [96:43]
A
18 or 20. Yeah.
- [96:44]
B
Okay, so wait, okay. Did I ask. Is there anything I didn't cover with you beside. I mean, I wanted to ask you. Like salt. I know you're big. Celtic or Celtic.
- [96:52]
A
Well, you know what? Here's, here's. I, I think that salt, this all comes down to the individual as well. I think that you should sprinkle a little salt on your food, but also not go overboard. Like, you shouldn't be doing buckets of salt on your food. And some of this also depends on how much potassium you're getting, which you're going to get predominantly from fruit and to a degree, from things like vegetables and potatoes. So. So again, I know people always want me to give a straight answer and I can sometimes. But it's so hard because again, like, my mindset's always. I need to create something customized for you. Where do you live? How? Like, you're going to sweat more in Florida than California. Like, are you exercising? You're not. Let me give you an example. The most popular electrolyte beverage today. I don't like it all for most people.
- [97:33]
B
Oh, I know, it's terrible.
- [97:34]
A
It's synthetic. It's a five to one ratio. A thousand milligrams of soda, 200 of potassium. For my. Most people I work with, it should probably be closer to a one to one ratio of an electrolyte drink. Exactly. Coconut water. Throw sea salt in there. There you go. There's your electrolyte drink. So. Or watermelon juice with electrolytes.
- [97:53]
B
So, yeah, I don't know how this whole, this whole, it became like a whole thing, like elementy and all these. Sorry. But all these things.
- [97:59]
A
Well, yeah, I didn't.
- [98:00]
B
I mean, no, because I don't understand. People just take like their own coconut water, their own water and just add some lemon and some of their own salt. It's cheaper, it's free, and it's way healthier. And your body like, it, it, it. Like it's not bloated. Like, I find those things have way too much sodium.
- [98:19]
A
Yeah, they do. Like, unless they do. I mean, it's great. I mean, Like I have some people, like, they're giving themselves health problems, actually. It'll increase the water retention, increase some of the dampness. It'll make them work. Now, if you're sweating buckets, or let's say you're a crossfitter and you're sweating a lot, that brand, even though I don't like it because synthetic and the other things in it, it's probably the right ratio for those people. If people are marathon runners, those sort of things, it's meant for them. But the average day person that just sweats a little bit, totally when they're exercising, the ratio, it's way off.
- [98:52]
B
I don't understand. But that's the thing, right? People are overdoing everything, right? You see, when people go on their hike for a mile, they're taking their trail mix with them up the mountain.
- [99:01]
A
And probably, probably a camelback, you follow? You know, you know, the. Yeah, totally. It's true.
- [99:08]
B
It's so crazy. Okay, one other. One last question, I promise. Give me five. Five things in your 50s for longevity.
- [99:19]
A
Number one, have a spiritual growth practice. Number two, start focusing more on building community. Like this could be, you know, lunch with your best friends. Just start a weekly brunch. Something to where you are building deeper relationships, where you're looking at serving and helping other people, but just better relationships. Three, at the very least, change your breakfast. You know, focus on more protein, more fiber, more nutrients. It might look like what I talked about. The pumpkin smoothie or blueberries are fine at room temperature with some coconut milk, some collagen or bone broth protein, some plant protein, but something like that for breakfast.
- [99:56]
B
4.
- [99:57]
A
You know, I want to mention exercise here, but here's what I'll say for exercise, do the type of exercise you're going to be consistent with. I mean, I love weight training, by the way. The longevity studies show that probably the best exercise is racket sports like tennis and pickleball and badminton. So I love that. I love swimming, I love cycling, but I would say generally just spend more time moving. And the last one, number five, just spend way more time outside.
- [100:25]
B
Yeah, I think those are good.
- [100:26]
A
Hiking, getting sun, all, all that.
- [100:28]
B
I, I think the pickle ball tennis is also good for your brain coordination, keeping your brain like moving.
- [100:33]
A
Of course.
- [100:33]
B
Yeah. By the way, the best exercise is walking because everyone can do it. And the barrier to entry is very.
- [100:39]
A
And, and especially if you've got hills. I mean, it's even better. 100. Totally agree.
- [100:43]
B
You know, I, I agree. Okay, I guess I can let you Go now. It's been. You can open the. We can open the window.
- [100:49]
A
Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me. This was fun. It was a great question. I mean some of the questions are ones I don't. I don't answer often and that's. Those are my favorite interviews. I love being able to answer the questions that are kind of less. Less common.
- [101:00]
B
Oh my God. I have a million more. But I don't want to. I feel like I've like taken up way too much of your time and I know it's like a sauna in here, so I didn't want to make you sweat more.
- [101:07]
A
Saunas are great for our health.
- [101:09]
B
That's right. Exactly. I was going to say. You didn't say sauna in the 5 longevity. And I said 50 is not 40s because I think you know people who like. I feel like they're like now empty nesters and they can like focus on their lives more. Maybe it's a better.
- [101:23]
A
Yeah.
- [101:24]
B
Their kids are off from college and what have you. Okay. So Josh. Dr. What do people call you? Josh?
- [101:30]
A
It depends. A lot of people call me Josh. Some people call me Dr. A. Some people call me other things. You might trying to think. My 5 year old daughter calls me, you know, dad or makes up other names.
- [101:42]
B
So I'll call you Dr. Josh.
- [101:44]
A
That's great.
- [101:44]
B
Yeah, great.
- [101:45]
A
I'm great with anything.
- [101:46]
B
Dr. Josh's. Dr. Josh Axe's book is called when is it out? Biblio Diet. It's out September. Oh, September.
- [101:53]
A
Yeah. Soon. Very soon.
- [101:54]
B
And I don't know everything that John. I like. I like you. I think you do. He's got great influence. I really like I said I've been following him for a long time. He's very knowledgeable and that's it. Buy his book. Bye. Thank you.