Episode 501: Alejandra Maria Gallo: Dating Strategy, Emotional Regulation, and Taking Your Power Back

Summary

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Habits and Hustle Ep. 501: Alejandra Maria Gallo – Dating Strategy, Emotional Regulation, and Taking Your Power Back

Podcast: Habits and Hustle
Host: Jen Cohen (with Habit Nest)
Guest: Alejandra Maria Gallo – Dating Strategist
Release Date: November 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jennifer Cohen chats with Alejandra Maria Gallo, a dating strategist best known for her direct and pragmatic take on modern dating, especially for high-achieving women. They dive deep into actionable dating strategies, the importance of emotional regulation and diversification, setting boundaries, the evolution of gender roles, and embracing feminine energy while maintaining personal power. Alejandra opens up about her journey, her advice for moving on from heartbreak, and the changing landscape of dating.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What is a Dating Strategist?

• [02:44 – 04:05] Alejandra distinguishes her role from a dating coach:
  • Dating coach: Walks alongside, supports through ups and downs.
  • Dating strategist: "I just want to cut through the BS … Let's create a plan, and then you work the plan." (A, 03:04)
  • Focus on building self-confidence, solution-based, not endless discussion.

2. Focus on High-Achieving Women

• [04:27 – 06:20]
  • Alejandra targets ambitious, high-performing women because, "If you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody." (A, 05:01)
  • Her tech background and network led her to work with women facing similar challenges.

3. Origin Story and the Power of Vulnerability

• [05:32 – 06:20]
  • Called off her engagement two years ago, prompting a pivot into dating psychology content.
  • "I felt like I had nothing to lose … I started posting content in January of last year. And since then I’ve been able to grow an audience of over 850,000 people worldwide." (A, 06:18)

4. Cutting Through the Noise

• [06:20 – 07:20]
  • Jen notes, “The ones who actually stick out are the ones who have a point of view … that’s usually accurate, but people don’t want to admit.” (B, 06:47)
  • Alejandra’s approach can be polarizing; some see it as manipulative, but she frames it as raw honesty.

5. Emotional Diversification – The Vital Relationship Investment

• [08:05 – 11:53]
  • Alejandra coins emotional diversification: "In the same way a financially independent millionaire has several sources of income … you get into trouble if your partner is your only source of emotional validation." (A, 08:33)
  • Encourages cultivating interests, community, and non-romantic sources of fulfillment.
  • “If you give someone the power to feed you, you also give them the power to starve you.” (A, 08:51)

6. Challenges Unique to Successful Women

• [12:10 – 14:08]
  • Many successful women don’t know how to slow down or be still with their thoughts.
  • They often over-function in relationships, leading to "the mother-child dynamic," resentment, and unbalanced partnerships.

7. Gender Dynamics and Power in Relationships

• [14:08 – 17:00]
  • Over-functioning leads men to entitlement, not admiration: "The more you forgive, the more you bend, he thinks, wow, I'm king of the castle." (A, 15:33)
  • Strategy isn’t about game-playing: “There’s a strategy to everything … so the same goes for dating.” (A, 16:34)

8. The Appeal of Maintaining Standards and Boundaries

• [17:00 – 18:04]
  • Men tend to be attracted to women who hold boundaries and don’t make things too easy.
  • “Common sense is not always so common.” (A, 18:01)

9. Early Dating Strategies: Show, Don’t Tell

• [18:23 – 22:21]
  • Don’t overshare your intentions: “You would not give away the pin to your bank account...hold your cards close.” (A, 18:27)
  • Discovery is more impactful than disclosure: let people experience your boundaries instead of constantly stating them.
  • “A man that doesn’t do anything for you … deserves nothing from you.” (A, 21:34)

10. Modern Dating Landscape and Red Flags

• [24:52 – 27:41]
  • Social media scrutiny: "If you go through his social media following and it looks like a nail salon directory. Pack it up." (A, 25:48)
  • Jen suggests: “Don’t date a guy who’s on social media.” (B, 26:03)
  • Both agree on the importance of men providing value and intention in a relationship.

11. Emotional Discipline and Regulation

• [29:19 – 33:15]
  • “Emotional discipline is being able to do what you know, not what you feel." (A, 29:22)
  • Strategies: Do hard things, ask “What am I avoiding?” Journaling is helpful for processing emotions rather than immediately reacting to partners.
  • “You are such a powerful person if you can just emotionally regulate yourself.” (A, 37:52)

12. Attachment Styles & Self-Regulation

• [35:24 – 37:02]
  • Avoidant and anxious styles reflect a person’s own emotional skill deficits.
  • Secure connection is possible, but both must be willing.

13. Dating for High-Achieving Women & the Search for Masculine Energy

• [38:48 – 42:16]
  • Most common complaint: “Men are threatened by them.”
  • The need to lean into feminine energy: “Letting things be, not feeling the need to fix everything.” (A, 39:44)
  • The scarcity of high-achieving men leads to power dynamic challenges and sometimes necessitates being “better off by themselves for a period of time.” (A, 40:08)

14. Practical Dating Advice: Diversify, Stay Hot, Stay Ready

• [45:49 – 47:17]
  • Continue developing yourself outside the relationship—career, fitness, hobbies.
  • “Stay hot, stay ready.” (A, 46:19 / B, 46:19)
  • Self-confidence is the “sexiest thing out there.”

15. The Laws of Human Nature: Chasing, Scarcity, and Detachment

• [47:35 – 55:36]
  • “Never let a guy or anybody think … you’re lucky to have them. They should feel lucky to have you.” (B, 48:53)
  • Men thrive when they feel lucky to have their partner.
  • No contact after breakups: “No contact is the way to go, because otherwise, you are prolonging your healing.” (A, 50:49)
  • Scarcity creates value and interest.

16. No Contact, Detachment, and Healing

• [56:16 – 58:08]
  • Alejandra’s tool: “What’s the story?”—Write down the truth about the relationship and eliminate rose-colored fantasies.
  • “It was the fact that I had literally taken a massive step back in my career … and for what? For him to disrespect me like this?” (A, 61:03)
  • Move on and rebuild by reframing and re-centering yourself.

17. Alejandra’s Personal Story

• [57:59 – 64:56]
  • Vulnerable sharing of her engagement, move to Australia, betrayal, and starting over.
  • Built a new life and career from adversity: “Now, nearly two years later … I have nearly a million followers across social media.” (A, 63:02)

18. Detachment Content Resonates Most

• [65:10 – 65:58]
  • “That’s what I think my clients struggle with the most … healing from a relationship. Nobody talks about these things.” (A, 65:23)

19. Dating Apps, Meetups & Strategic Relationship Building

• [42:38 – 45:49]
  • Schedule dating app time intentionally, avoid emotional exhaustion, date multiple people early on for perspective.
  • Most successful women meet partners through community, networks, mutual interests.

20. Evolving Norms, Gender Roles, and What to Resist

• [69:11 – 73:26]
  • “Do you want to look happy or do you want to be happy?” (A, 70:54)
  • Resist men being in the feminine, e.g. wanting to be chased or taken care of.
  • “Better to be alone than to be with someone that you feel like truly doesn’t deserve you.” (A, 73:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you give someone the power to feed you, you also give them the power to starve you.” – Alejandra (08:51)
• “Emotional discipline is being able to do what you know, not what you feel.” – Alejandra (29:22)
• “Never let a guy or anybody think … you’re lucky to have them. They should feel lucky to have you.” – Jen (48:53)
• “Stay hot, stay ready.” – Jen & Alejandra (46:19)
• “A man that doesn’t do anything for you … deserves nothing from you, truly. Because women, we amplify everything.” – Alejandra (21:33)
• “There’s a strategy to everything you do in life … so the same goes for dating.” – Alejandra (16:34)
• “No contact is the way to go, because otherwise, you are prolonging your healing. … Do it right or do it twice.” – Alejandra (50:49)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:44–04:05 | Dating strategist vs. coach, action-oriented plan | | 08:05–11:53 | Emotional diversification | | 14:08–17:00 | Over-functioning leads to entitlement, not admiration | | 29:19–33:15 | Emotional discipline, journaling, emotional regulation | | 35:24–37:02 | Attachment styles | | 38:48–42:16 | High-achieving women, feminine energy, scarcity of alpha men | | 45:49–47:17 | Self-confidence: “Stay hot, stay ready” | | 50:37–52:08 | No contact after breakups | | 56:16–58:08 | “What’s the story?” exercise for detachment | | 57:59–64:56 | Alejandra’s personal story: betrayal, transformation, new relationship | | 65:10–65:58 | No contact resonates most with clients | | 69:11–73:26 | Adapting to and resisting modern dating norms, masculine vs. feminine energy |

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Final Takeaways

• Emotional regulation and diversity are foundational to healthy relationships and self-esteem.
• Boundaries, standards, and strategies—not games—keep relationships vibrant and empowering, especially for high-achieving women.
• Self-improvement, self-confidence, and ongoing personal growth (“stay hot, stay ready”) benefit both your relationship prospects and your whole life.
• Modern dynamics require clarity about values, gender energy, and an acceptance that sometimes being alone is the most empowered choice.
• Strategic detachment and no contact aren’t about manipulation but about healing, reclaiming power, and creating space for better connections.

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This summary covers the main topics, insights, and tone of this dynamic episode. For anyone navigating the modern dating world—especially high-achieving women—Alejandra Maria Gallo’s advice is candid, actionable, and refreshingly unapologetic.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle.

[B]

Crush it, guys. Women. This is. This is for. I think it's for everybody but women. You're gonna thank me for this podcast. I really think so. We have a young woman. Her name is Alejandra Maria. She is a dating strategist. How would you describe yourself? It's more than just a dating strategist.

[A]

Yeah, I would say strategist is the perfect word.

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Because what. You're really. What, like. So this is how it happened. Here I am doom scrolling on TikTok and one of Alejandro's videos came up, and I was. I just thought that you. I just thought you were so good in terms of, like, cutting through the crap and, like, getting to, like, the meat of the matter and really breaking down relationships. Date. Modern dating, psychology. Emotional dysfunction, regularity. So well that I had to reach out to you. And coincidentally, you were coming to la.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this was, like, meant to be.

[A]

Yeah, it was meant to be.

[B]

I'm so glad. Also, she's Canadian, so this is even more of a thing.

[A]

Even better.

[B]

Even better, right? Because I love. Of course. How do you not love a Canadian? Like, right, we're Canadian, so thank you again for coming on the show. I love that you're here. What we do first, before we do anything, is we take a healthy performance shot. These are magic mind. They're delicious. And it keeps my guest on point and very, very focused. And they taste, like I said, very good. And they have all sorts of yummy ingredients. And I know that you're an ultra marathoner, so I thought of all the people.

[A]

Gonna be perfect.

[B]

Yeah. Take it. I've already had three today. I don't know if I should have any more. It's good, right?

[A]

This is really good.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I was expecting it to have, like, a sharp taste, but it's, like, very. Wow.

[B]

I know, because most. Most of these shots are, like, terrible, but this one's actually very good. I'm not gonna do mine because I do, like, fly off the walls if I have more than four a day.

[A]

Where do you get these?

[B]

You can buy them actually, at. I see them everywhere now. You can buy them online, but you can also buy them at Erewhon in la. I don't know if they come. Yeah, I've heard of that place. Yeah, exactly. Everyone's a whole thing. Okay, right. Because you're Canadian, you can get them at ere1. I don't know if they have them at Whole Foods. You could buy them online, go to magic mind dot com. And that's actually not even me being an ad. Like, this wasn't supposed to be an ad ad, but that was like, it's actually, these are legit. Like, everyone who has them, like, really loves them and ends up like, wanting to like, buy them when they are before a workout or before they do anything kind of high performance wise. So anyway, with that being said, let's start because I have a lot, a lot, a lot of questions for you.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

All right, so let me. The first thing is, when you call yourself a dating strategist, how is that different than being like a dating coach?

[A]

I would say when you're working with a dating coach, that's someone that's working alongside you, like through the ups, the downs, holding your hand. I think for me, I just want to cut through the bs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come to me with your problems. Let's create a plan and, and then you work the plan. And if we need to talk after that, let's talk after that. But I think it's all about building the confidence in yourself so you can feel comfortable in the decisions that you're making.

[B]

Well, you know, it's interesting. Like, yeah, like I, I have a little bit of an issue with sometimes therapy because I find that you can. People can go to therapy for years on end and, and just talk and ruminate over the same problems and talk about the same problem over and over and over again and not really get anywhere. And so I guess what I like about like that whole approach that you just said is that you are. There's like, it's kind of like you're tackling the issue with sol. It's like a very solution based, action oriented type of program where it's like, okay, here's the issue. This is what you're supposed to do. If you don't want to do it, then you know I'm not for you. Right. Like, you want to kind of like get to the meat of the matter and get people a result as opposed to just going like evergreen forever.

[A]

Yeah, I think sometimes we can get stuck in just talking about the same problem over and over and over again. And sure, I think that there is some benefit to talking about it, but if you're not gonna take action on what you want, then you're constantly gonna be stuck in like this victim's mentality. You're constantly just repeating your mistakes.

[B]

And so, so you focus. If I'm not mistaken, like, tell me if I'm wrong. But you focus on women, first of all.

[A]

Yeah, definitely.

[B]

And. And also like highly successful women, high.

[A]

Achieving, high performing women.

[B]

Yes, yes. Now what made you kind of really kind of target and skew to high performance women, ambitious women, successful women, and not just overall, just women as a whole?

[A]

I think that.

[B]

Or woman like, you know, women as a whole.

[A]

I think it's important to know who your target audience is because sometimes if you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think because before I was doing this, I was working in the tech industry and, you know, all of my girlfriends were having like the same problems and they were coming to me for advice. And so that's what I felt comfortable, you know, talking about, like working with.

[B]

So how did you kind of evolve yourself into being a dating strategist for high achievers or high achieving women? Like, what were you one of them and you were having issues in relationships or kind of like, give me your. Give me the kind of the origin story of how you started this whole thing.

[A]

Okay. Well, I will say that self development has always been a really big part of my life. My mom was always big in that. And I think, you know, growing up, I just noticed how relationships can cause people so much pain, you know, regardless of what your upbringing is. And so it always fascinated me. And then it was when I called off my engagement about two years ago that I decided, you know, this is something that I've always wanted to do and I was starting over. And so I felt like I had nothing to lose. And so I might as well, like, try for, you know, the life that I wanted. And so, yeah, I started to really focus on, you know, dating psychology and creating content. And I started posting content in January of last year. And since then I've been able to grow an audience of over 850,000 people worldwide.

[B]

It's amazing. Well, because I think when people have good content that cuts through the BS like you do, people find it, right. Yeah, I think we're in a, we're in a world right now, digitally that, you know, a lot of people are just me tours, like, they do the same thing. Everyone's kind of saying the same thing, doing the same thing. So the ones who actually stick out are the ones who have a point of view or a perspective that's usually accurate. But people don't want to know, don't want to, like, admit.

[A]

Oh, it's polarizing, right?

[B]

It's very polarizing. Very polarizing. Because a lot of people find your content to be manipulative like very manipulating or, or manipulative. I don't actually see it that way. I see it as being like, actually like very raw and honest of what works and what doesn't work. We're going to get into that in like a moment. But I have one other question before we start, which is, were you always the person, like you kind of mentioned it earlier, like the people kind of came to when they had like, relationship problems or they needed advice on dating. Like, were you always that girl?

[A]

Yes, I would always say that I was. I'm not going to be the friend that celebrates you throwing your life away and just celebrating mediocre behavior. If you come to me with a problem, I'm gonna say what I think. And so I'm not gonna be the friend that you come to, to cry with and eat bon bons with and then you go and do the same thing over again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like the comfort that's just not happening.

[B]

You and me would be like BFFs if we live closer, I think, because we have a very similar ideology of what works and what doesn'. Okay, because one of the things that you really talk about, which really hit for me, which I say all the time, is this idea and you just phrased it better, which is emotional diversification.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because I think, can we, like, talk about this?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Because I think that is so clever and I think the way you, you put it together for women is really important and I think that we should like, spend some time on it.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

So just, why don't you kind of just explain to all of us what, what do you mean when you say immersion? Emotional diversification. Okay. And how can we apply this to our life?

[A]

Okay, so the analogy I like to give is in the same way a financially independent millionaire has several sources of income. You're never too pressed if one of those income sources dries up. But I find that oftentimes in relationships, you know, you get yourself into trouble if your partner is your only source of emotional validation, reassurance and fulfillment. You want them to be your best friend, your boyfriend, your confidant, your everything. And I think that can be really dangerous because we know not to do that financially. If you give someone the power to feed you, you also give them the power to starve you. And so I think that when you're going to be in a long term relationship, it actually works for the polarity of the relationship to have your own thing. I think that is the most attractive thing a person can have. It's a very full Life that you're not easily pulled away from. Like you're very engaged in what you're doing.

[B]

So, because let me just make sure I, I, I my audience and I understand what you're saying, which is when you put all your eggs in one basket and that basket so happens to up and leave or something happens and disappears, you're really left with zero. Right. It becomes a zero sum game. However, if you diversify and put a little bit in this basket, a little bit in that baske, when something may go awry, right. It's not so devastating. Right. And I think this is why I think a lot of people get into trouble, right. When women rely on a man basically for money. Right. Which is a big one, super dangerous. How many people do you know? I know a million who are still in relationships that are toxic, marriages that are not very fulfilling because they are afraid to leave just because they are unable to, they feel make, make money on their own. Right. And, or because your, your whole life becomes wrapped up in the other person that you don't even, you're not, your whole identity is now you don't even have one. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're saying then it's very important to make sure that you have other things to do. So give us some, give us an example of a framework of how somebody can start doing that if they haven't done it already. Of course, the financial piece is the big one, so we can talk about that a little bit. But other ways we can kind of emotionally diversify.

[A]

I think having a strong community. I think oftentimes when my high performing clients come to me, they'll say, I don't have a lot of friends, I go to work, I go to the gym, and then that's it. And so I think being able to connect with other women. Running clubs are huge. Just finding a way to really feed your body, but then at the same time feeding your mind. Like learning new things. Not just constantly consuming content. I think also thinking back to your childhood and thinking about the things that you enjoyed when you went out to play. For me, I would make YouTube videos with my sister. We made music videos. And it was so fun. But I think that was kind of helping me figure out what I wanted to do later in life because it never really felt like work. And so for me, creating content always felt really natural, I think also being able to just know what you want out of life, I think.

[B]

So if you see a lot of high performing, high achieving, very successful women, you know, usually you would think that that that would mean that they didn't. They. They have emotionally diversified because they do have their own career. Right. They do make their own money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where do you find that they do lack? Is it mostly on the other social end? Either they have work and then they have maybe a relationship, but then they have no other outlet. Is that what you're noticing?

[A]

I think they don't know how to slow down and be still with their thoughts, and it will reflect in their relationship. So, for example, let's say they start going out with someone, they really like them. Obviously you're going to notice that there's going to be a gap, and either, you know, the person that you're dating can fill that gap, you know, that emotional space. But oftentimes my clients, they. They'll just think to themselves, okay, I see this gap. Let me just go and fill it. Let me take that initiative. Let me, you know, show them how much I care. Let me plan all these dates. But then they end up in a dynamic. They end up resenting where they are doing everything and their partner is doing nothing, and they feel almost like a mother and their partner is their child.

[B]

Right. Well, I think that. That you talk about that a lot too. I feel that happens with anybody who's competent. Right. The person who is typically the more competent one, the more successful one ends up kind of like running the show a little bit. And what you're saying is no matter how competent or how successful the woman is, she should never take that role of a kind of like being the one who is planning everything. Doing everything. Yeah, because. Because then you. It does create this, like, weird, like, power dynamic. That's very unattractive.

[A]

Yeah. And you never end up actually knowing if your partner is with you out of convenience or if they actually want to be with you.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

Because it's easy to be with someone when they're doing everything for you. Like, they're making your life so easy. But what about when things are inconvenient? I think it's really easy to find someone that you can have a good time with. With enough alcohol, you can have a good time with pretty much anybody.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

How about somebody you can have a bad time with? Someone that is going to be there for you when it's inconvenient.

[B]

But I find, like, what you just said, like, the whole, you know, be the, like so many women fall into this trap where they become eventually the mother to their. To their boyfriend or husband or whatever, their partner, which. It's such a turn off. On both ends, Right. Like, it's a turn off for the woman and it's a turn off for the guy. Like, the guy loses interest. Right? There's no. Because that's not a. It's not like a sexy thing. But it's not just. That doesn't actually. I don't see that happening so often. Only with, like high, like high achiever women. Women. I see that across the board. Yeah, right. Like, if you go onto social media, that's like, that's like all the memes, right? Like, oh, I gotta pick out his pants for him. I gotta, like, make his dinner, take his vitamins. It might remind him, right, to flush the toile. But like, it's like, it's also like what society is kind of like joked about for so long that these, that women end up in this, in this motherly role. And, you know, it. It kind of is like what happens? Like, it just morphs into it. How does, what do you tell people? Like, how do they stop doing that, Catching themselves in that act? Like, why does that happen anyway? Because typically, I think what normally starts is like a lot of times maybe the man was the one who was, like, taking the initiative, but there's some. Somewhere along the lines, the role got reversed. Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. And then she started to take over and. Because that's what she's done in every other area of her life, you know, when it comes to, you know, building the career, building the finances, like building the body, you know, just work harder. But when you do that in your relationship, um, I think that's where men and women fundamentally differ. A woman could go out on a date with a man and she might not let him pay because she might think to herself, I don't want him to expect anything. But if you do the most for a man, he's not sitting there thinking, you know, she's going to expect more from me, I better pick up the pace. He's thinking, if she's doing this for me, then I must deserve it. And so you think that you're building up his admiration when really you're building up his entitlement. And so the more you forgive, the more you bend. He thinks, wow, I'm king of the castle. And so I think it's just important to know that it's okay to say that men and women are different and knowing that you can complain about it, but ultimately the next three months are going to look a lot like the last three months, unless you decide to do something different. And so I think that's where strategy is really important and people say, oh, well, that's just playing games. But there's a strategy to everything you do in life. There's a strategy when you want to, you know, make a recipe when you want to go somewhere when you want to. Yeah. Build muscle. And so the same goes for dating, but I think that's where I think people are getting a bit stuck.

[B]

I totally agree with everything you're saying. I also find there's a reason why the, like, there's like a whole world out there and books are read, are written about it and people talk about it, that men do prefer bitches versus these nice girls because it keeps the guy on their toes a little bit. Right. If you just acquiesce and do everything and say the right. Like there's, like, there's something most men. Again, this is not like, I'm not sweeping everybody with the same brush, but like, most men do, like that hunter kind, that hunt mentality, that animalistic thing. And if you're. If you're always just easy prey, y. They will lose interest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or. And. Or think that, like, you're, like, easy to kind of like, you know, you're easy. So they'll, like, find other things to kind of to. To. To. To kind of like, challenge themselves on as opposed to challenging themselves onto you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I don't find that to be strategic. I just think that's just, like, obvious.

[A]

Yeah, well, common sense is not always so common.

[B]

You're a Canadian girl. Because I. It's a Canadian thing. So can you give women who may be listening to this podcast, like, couple strategies where they can start really kind of taking that into heart to talk to heart where that they can start doing tomorrow?

[A]

Okay, so let's start in the beginning stages of dating.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think a common question clients ask me is what do I say when he asks me what I'm looking for? You would not give away the pin to your bank account. You would not. You have to hold your cards close because sometimes when you are very straightforward, that might get you far in terms of business. But in relationships, sometimes that can invite a performance, not someone, you know showing up authentically. I think people are not going to tell you who they are. They're going to show you who you are. So it's just important to try to have a good time and see what you learn along the way. But sometimes when you ask these very pointed questions in the beginning, you're not actually going to get the answer that you want, because who is going to Say to you, actually, I'm a terrible person. You know, I'm a serial cheater. I lied to my family. I'm in loads of debt. Like, nobody's going to tell you that, but you're going to be able to see their habits. And so if you can just, yeah, just try to get to know people and stay true to yourself. I think women already know exactly what to do because they do it with men that they don't like. You know, if a guy approaches her and she turns them away, she's okay with enforcing those boundaries. But the moment you start to like somebody, it's like those boundaries go away. Because how often have you been in a situation where you say, I don't usually do this, and then you go and you do the thing that you don't usually do. And so it's just important to remember that people are going to treat you the way you treat yourself. And so it's not that, you know, he, he lost interest because you, you slept with him too early. It's. He lost interest because you said that, you know what, this is really important to you. And then you, you didn't stay true to that. And so it's being able to stick to your word. If you're going to state a boundary, I want you to expect them to test it because it's almost like in the grocery store with a child. When you tell your child, don't touch that candy bar. And then what are they going to do? They're going to go and test that. So discovery is always going to be more impactful than disclosure. Let people discover your boundaries. So, for example, if you're going out on dates and you notice that, you know, he's stopped planning because he kind of always expects me to be available. And so now I say no to my friends, even though he doesn't, you know, create those plans. Go hang out with your friends and let him see, oh, you know, when I don't plan, actually, she's not available. Let him feel those consequences. Instead of, you know, talking.

[B]

Right. Instead of just saying, you're saying. So instead of just saying, like, I don't appreciate when you don't make plans, blah, blah, blah, like, see how he behaves and then act accordingly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how would you tell people to act then? Because would you say then, like, let's say, like, in the beginning stages or even like later on? Are you saying not, like, not to be too available when they ask you out? Are you saying, don't reply to every text message? Are you what do you, what are your. Do you have, like, some rules that women should be.

[A]

Number one is show, don't tell. Show, don't tell.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Don't argue with someone that is not your boyfriend. Like, why are you spending so much energy? Like, this is just someone that you might want to get to know. You know, you wouldn't argue with the stranger in the street. And so why are you arguing with someone who's truly not even your boyfriend? I think also a man that doesn't do anything for you, a man that doesn't want to make your life better, deserves nothing from you, truly. Because women, we amplify everything. We have the power to change the energy in an entire room. You know, you give a woman sperm, she'll give you a baby. You give a woman a house, she'll give you a home. And so I think sometimes women are told that that's not as powerful as it is, but it is. You know, men used to go to war for women, die for women.

[B]

Right. There's been a, there's been a huge shift, though, in the last, you know.

[A]

Yeah, lots of.

[B]

Many years.

[A]

Lots of.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of shifts. Like, modern dating is not. There's very few men now, I, I, I just notice, are not as chivalrous. There's. They don't believe in chivalry. Everything is about equal. I mean, I can be. I could be the biggest powerhouse in the world, but I still believe in chivalry, and I still believe that, like, a man should open the door of my car. A man should still pay for dinner. A man should still take care of my text support, you know, whatever it is.

[A]

Yeah. Mow my lawn, take out the garbage. Like, do something.

[B]

There is, like, something to be said for, like, keeping certain gender roles. I don't know what the word is. Like, consistent. Consistent. And like, there is something to be said for, like, being a man and having, like, masculine energy, which are these things. Like, yeah, who wants to go on a date? And you're what, paying Dutch. You are just splitting the bill.

[A]

It's embarrassing.

[B]

It's embarrassing. Embarrassing.

[A]

It's embarrassing. Like, if you hate me, just say that.

[B]

Or like. But I, I think that there's been a shift overall. There's two things. I think that we're in a generation or in a culture time when some people actually, I would believe some men think now it would be offensive to try to pay for the bill because some women are so, they're such, so pro, you know, I don't know, feminine, like, feminist. Rights that. There. There's. They've been blurred with what's actually chivalrous and what's feminist and what's appropriate. Like, I. I find there's. There's. That's why people are not dating. They're not, like, having these, like, love, romantic relationships with, like, the opposite sex anymore.

[A]

Yeah, I think that the whole 5050 argument is, you know, all the rage. Right.

[B]

Not. Not to me. Yeah, well, a lot of people. Have you ever heard the saying, what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He's all about her, she's all about hers.

[B]

Yeah, well, no, but, like, I find, like, like, true men, like, they want to be able to. They do want to do that. Yes. But, like, do you think that women, though, are, like, they play this like. No, men are. Women are. Women are just like, men. No, like, and, like, that whole song with my, like, Miley Cyrus, like, you know, flowers. Like, you know, I could buy my own flowers. Yeah, you may be able to buy your own flowers.

[A]

Do that, though.

[B]

Yeah, but who wants to. I don't want to buy my own flowers. Like, and I don't want to ask.

[A]

You to buy me flowers either.

[B]

Right. So, like, you've seen all of the. Okay, so with all of this happening in modern dating, right, the ghosting, the texting, the social media, the DMing, you know, sliding in someone's inbox, the apps, like, where are we now with modern dating? Like, what should we do to kind of push back? And also, what are some red flags that we should be looking for?

[A]

Red flags? I think when it comes to dating apps, someone that hasn't, you know, filled out their profile, like, they're just throwing something up without actually putting some thought into it. I think that's a red flag. I think talking negatively about your exes, I think before you give your man or give a man your undivided attention, I want you to go through his social media following that is gonna tell you so much about who this man is. If you go through his social media following and it looks like a nail salon directory.

[B]

Pack it up.

[A]

Pack it up. Because I just. I just don't believe the. The whole argument of, oh, I don't even know how I'm following all these people, it's like, no, you. You're following these people for a reason. I don't know about you, but my social media feed is very curated.

[B]

By the way, I have a better one for you. How about don't date a guy who's on social media oh, yeah, that's. I think that's, like.

[A]

I think that's the gold standard.

[B]

That's the. That's the number one relate dating tip I can give you. If your guy is on social media, probably not the guy you want to be dating.

[A]

I. I don't think I could ever date a guy who knows what a photo dump is.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I see some of these guys on social media who are, like, putting together carousels.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what are you doing putting together a carousel? Like, to me, go out there and work. Go out there and do something more productive. If you're sitting there, like, go wood. Yeah. Or, like, do something. Yeah. I don't care. Cut wood. Do your job. Do. Go sit in an office cubicle and just pick your nose. But if you're spending your time, like, on social media to that level where you're, like, curating your own photos and pictures, like, it's problematic. It's the biggest turnoff in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Go.

[A]

Go make some money.

[B]

Right. Like, and you could say, well, what if they're an influencer?

[A]

I wouldn't date a guy influencer.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

But what I will say is that I do think that all men are providers, Whether. Whether they provide peace or problems is another thing. But I think even if a guy maybe isn't at the same financial level as you, he will want to make your life easier. It's almost like they come to you and it's almost like they become childlike. You know, they just want to please you. They just want to make you happy. But if you find that a guy is continuing to come in and out of your life and he's providing nothing but confusion and problems.

[B]

Well, I think. I think there's a couple things you said, like, at the beginning. I think everybody's like, like a puppy dog and doting. Right. I think that's called the honeymoon stage. Yeah. I think the. The bigger question is what happens phase two. Because I think everything kind of, like, wears itself out a little bit, right? Like, the honeymoon stage eventually wears out, so they. Maybe they're not as doting. That's the phase where I think a lot of people fall into a problem, Right. I think the first phase where, like, it's like, puppy love and he wants to do everything for you and you guys love each other and it's like, all great and fine, then what? Because that will fade.

[A]

I think developing emotional discipline and finding someone who is not just seeking, you know, immediate gratification. I think that happiness is a byproduct of fulfillment. And that comes in doing the hard things. You know, it can feel unrewarding when you know, you've been in a relationship with someone for maybe four or five years and it feels like it's the same thing over and over again. And so I think still being able to pay attention to the small things and being able to, you know, show up for yourself, but also show up for your person and knowing that, okay, this feeling is gonna come and go. But I'm not just looking for someone that I can have this constant excitement with because as someone who came out of a long term relationship, you know, you notice that it's really, it's not that exciting, you know, and it's just important to know that, you know, the, the undisciplined life isn't worth living because it doesn't produce anything.

[B]

So tell, tell us what you mean by emotional discipline.

[A]

I think emotional discipline is being able to do what you know, not what you feel. And I think oftentimes people just want to listen to your heart, you know, just do whatever you would do, whatever feels right. But really when I'm in a situation and I have, you know, an instinct to, you know, act in a certain way. Okay, I know I need to pause because it's almost like with time, you, you get perspective, you get clarity. It's very much like when you were in, when you were in college and let's say you went out drinking with your friends and you came back home and you swore, you set your alarm to 7 o' clock and then you wake up eight hours later and you realize, actually, I set my calculator to 700. You know, you think you know in the moment, but you don't. And so I think being able to allow for space between your emotion and your actions so that you can really, you know, digest what's happening. Kind of treat it like a, like a science experiment.

[B]

I think the first step would be like self awareness that you have emotion. Like how? Like that you have it or you don't have it. Is there like a framework that you can walk us through of how people can start truly developing emotional discipline in like real time?

[A]

Yeah. Doing hard things, doing the things you know you don't want to do. Wake up every day and ask yourself the question, what am I avoiding right now? What am I avoiding? Because that's probably the thing that you need to do most, and that's going to probably affect your life the most.

[B]

So would you say emotional discipline is really just discipline, like going to the gym for me is create, has created like, that's like kind of like a microcosm for life. Right. Because I've forced myself to a place where habitually every day I go to the gym, no matter if I like it, don't like it, I'm not basing me going my workout or me working out has zero to do. If I want to do it, zero to do. If I feel like it, I will do it anyway. Not because I like it, not because I'm interested in it, but I do it because I have disciplined myself over time to get up and that's part of my daily routine. And I focus on how I feel afterwards, not how I feel before. Yeah, right. And I don't rely on my feelings to tell me or dictate if I'm going to be at the gym or not. I just know I'm going to now. Is there things that we can do in life? Maybe it is the gym. Where that gym, going to the gym, working out every day helps train and hone your emotional discipline.

[A]

Yeah. I would say journaling has been really helpful for my clients. I think especially when it comes to dating, sometimes they'll want to come to their partner and just say whatever is on their mind. I, I disagree with that. I think that the way you say something and the way you, you know, express yourself to your partner is, is crucial because either you're gonna build up trust that, you know, when they come to you with a concern that you're gonna hold that emotional space. But you know, how many times has a partner come to you and you're just reactive and then you're immediately wanna say your side? I think being able to take a step back, being able to articulate what you want to say and then coming together and having a respectful conversation, those things can be really helpful. Also, oftentimes when I'm in a situation with a partner and something really bothers me and then I say something in the moment, oftentimes it's not helpful. But if I take even, you know, a couple hours, you know, I asked myself, okay, is this really a battle that I want to take on? Because if everything is a battle, that that's problematic.

[B]

Right. Today's episode is powered by amp. You know those days when you're just done, I mean, the meetings, the kids, the to do list, and you still want to move your body, but the gym feels a million miles away. That's exactly why I love my amp. AMP is a smart AI powered strength training device that sits right in your home. It's super sleek, literally looks like you got it at the Apple Store. And it also counts your reps, adjusts your weights for you. And you're always training under the perfect amount of tension. So whether you've got 15 minutes or 45amp adapts in real time to make every workout simple, effective and completely personal. And the app is super cool too. It has hundreds of different workouts. Strength, Pilates, mobility, recovery. And it's so easy to use. It's literally been a game changer for me. Like, I don't have to plan my workouts or wonder what I'm going to do. I just turn on my amp and it takes care of the rest. And as a mom and a business owner and a podcaster, that convenience means I stay consistent. And you know, strength training, especially for women, is so key for my hormone balance, longevity and of course, confidence. So you can see why I'm obsessed. Go to joinamp.comjen to learn more. That's joinamp.com Jen because strength should fit your life. Now, is there something to be said for attachment? Like different attachment theories, right? Like if you're an anxious person and I'm an avoidant person, maybe we just aren't a good match. Like what are some matches that people maybe can look at? Because I, I hear a lot about that in the zeitgeist. You know, like if he's an avoidant and if you're an anxious and maybe like is there any truth to these things?

[A]

I think that at the core of every anxious person, it's just a person who is in a severely avoidant relationship with themselves. They don't know how to self regulate and so they turn to the people around them and sometimes they're overly reliant and sometimes that can be quite taxing on your partner. And I think at the core of every avoidant person is just a person who is in a severely anxious relationship with themselves. Their parents let them down and so they learn how to be hyper independent. And what were they told growing up? They were often told, you know, go to your room and come back when you can be rational. And so now when they grow up with that mentality, when people come to them with their emotions, they're like, what are you doing? Like, this is weird, right? Give me some space or I'm gonna give you some space so that you can handle yourself just for things to get even worse. But I think that attachment theory and you know, anxious, anxious attachment and avoidant attachment, it's a spectrum with secure being in the middle and so you'll often find that avoidant partners and anxious partners typically go together. But that's not saying that you can't create a healthy relationship out of that. It's a matter of, do both of these partners want the same thing? Do they want to make it work? Are they willing to do the work? Because I can't tell you how many times I've had clients come to me, and it's the anxious partner saying, you know, I just want him to go to therapy and I want to do couples counseling, and he doesn't want to do it. You know, that's like forcing someone to go to the gym. Anybody can go to the gym for, you know, a couple days a week, but unless they want it for themselves, you're not going to see the results.

[B]

Right. That you're looking for. So the way to. I like that we said so the way to harness emotional discipline. A good tip would be to journal, because you're like, basically verbalizing verbal diarrhea on a basic.

[A]

And people don't do that anymore. They don't. They don't write things down.

[B]

They don't. Well, could we write. Can they write it on a. In a. In a, like a note?

[A]

I think you can, but I think it's more powerful when you're actually putting it down on paper because it really slows it down. Like using the voice to text. I'm guilty of it. I use voice to text so much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But no, really slowing down and not listening to anything. Not listening to, you know, TV in the background, not listening to your music. Just being really present and allowing yourself the opportunity to learn how to sit with negative emotions and not having to do anything. You know, a lot of people, they. They can't. You know, they'll. They'll turn to.

[B]

They'll.

[A]

They'll turn to food, they'll turn to alcohol. They'll. They'll turn to, you know, dysfunctional behaviors. You are such a powerful person if you can just emotionally regulate yourself.

[B]

Well, emotional regulation is the number one most powerful thing you can do for success overall in life. Not just in relationships, but professionally, in other. Other relationships in your life. Like, the ability to self regulate, emotionally regulate, they say, is the number one predictor of, like, of your success level across the board. It's also the most difficult thing to do. Right. Especially if you're someone who has anxiety or add whatever it is. Right. I'll be curious to ask you, because you work with such successful women as on a whole, what would you say the number one Thing is that most of your clients or most successful women complain about when it comes to dating.

[A]

They come to me and they say that men are threatened by them and men, you know, they, they'll self sabotage and they think that the dating pool is really small. That's what they'll come to me and they'll complain about.

[B]

Yeah. Because if they're super successful, they want a man typically who is more successful than them. And we're living in a time when if you haven't seen the numbers, let me just give you some stats here. There's more women in college, in more women homeowners in master what? In what? Who are homeowners, who are homeowners. More women successful entrepreneurs. More women make more money. And, and they've taken on the role of the masculine role like we were saying earlier. And so the men become these more like more subservient or more, less successful person. So it's again the power dynamic. It's very off. So what do they do?

[A]

I think it's learning how to really lean into your feminine energy which is just letting things be, not feeling the need to fix everything.

[B]

But that doesn't change. You can be as, you can lean as far left or right or up or down into your feminine energy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if there's no successful men that are superseding your success, you're still left in a very weird power dynamic.

[A]

Yeah. And it can be challenging, but I think also being able to really be okay with being by yourself with. For a lot of my clients, you know, they are better off by themselves for a period of time and you know, letting that person come to them. But when that does happen, being able to let him lead, like not pushing the relationship forward whatsoever because the guy who does want to be that guy for you, he's going to do it. And you would be shocked at how these women, they, it's almost like they, they turn into somebody else. They, they become so playful, you know. Have you ever had some girlfriends where you are just so playful with them, you feel so safe with them?

[B]

Right. Because you're not forced to be in your masculine. Yeah. So I think a lot of women who are successful and high achievers, they, they fall into the masculine role or masculine energy because they kind of have to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they don't have somebody who's going to be able to take over that masculine role. So it becomes kind of like this like chicken or the egg situation. Right. It's not because like I don't know. One, I really don't I don't know many, many of my friends who are like, single or dating, who are the really successful ones who want to be this, like, dominating powerhouse, you know, alpha woman.

[A]

They don't.

[B]

They don't. But they have no choice because they're not able to find a man who will take on that alpha role. Yeah. And women want that alpha man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It just is what it is, people, guys who, if you're a b. If you're like a beta, I don't know what you call it. You know, you. Maybe you don't want to, you don't want to hear it, but that is the reality.

[A]

It really is. Yeah.

[B]

It's not even so much about looks or like any of that. Like, it's an energy, right?

[A]

It is. And if he's not confident.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're always having to kind of reassure him, it's going to turn you off. Because what these women want is they want to be able to kind of turn off their brain and let them handle things because they're going to be happy with where they end up.

[B]

Right. So then let's get into the landscape of dating right now. Because we said, like, it's not so easy to find people. People are now online a lot. If you're busy, it's not that accessible. So people are joining these running clubs, whatever else, or if they could. They're not, but they should. Can you tell me what you're seeing in the. What is the landscape from your perspective of dating right now?

[A]

I think there are a lot of people that are on dating apps that just aren't serious. And so I think oftentimes, you know, you could go out on a date with a person and you could have an incredible first date. It could be five hours. Right. But then it's emotionally exhausting to try and keep that up. And so what I think is that when it comes to dating, almost like schedule it in, like, don't just passively be swiping, you know, throughout the day. Just say, okay, I'm gonna dedicate 20 minutes to, you know, swiping and knowing that, yeah, I do want to be in a long term relationship. And so I'm gonna put myself out there. I'm gonna go out to that coffee shop without my headphones in. I am gonna be, you know, more approachable. And then when you do find someone that you know you're going out with, I would encourage you to date multiple people. I'm not saying sleep with them, but what I am saying is that when you go out on dates with more than one person, then, you know not to invest too much too soon. You know, there's kind of a cadence to it. You know, let these dates be, you know, 60, 90 minutes, and then, you know, see what you, like, see what you're comfortable with. And then, you know, if you want to continue seeing someone, then, yeah, go and do it. But when you dive face first and, you know, you're three dates in and you're practically moved in together, then you're not allowing things to develop organically. You're missing the red flags.

[B]

So. Because since you do specialize in women who are highly successful, take it back with that. Because are they going on apps? I don't see these women who are like a list celebrities or B, I don't see celebrities.

[A]

Yeah. Raya is not what it used to be.

[B]

Have you been on this? I mean, I'm not on Raya, but I'll tell you that a lot of my friends who actually are on riot, it's a bunch of influencers and, like, wannabe actors. That's what it come. And then some real actors or actors, let me just say wannabe actors. I don't think it has necessarily the caliber that, honestly, that, like, women are looking for. Now. Raya is gonna sue me probably, but I'm not on there. This is. This is hearsay. This is me just saying what I think I've heard. Okay, but what I'm saying is that, like, where are people going then to do it? Like, where are these women meeting these men?

[A]

It's really friends of friends, you know, being set up. It's, you know, working on your community, your social network, right?

[B]

Doing what you like to do and then meeting people in, like, the places that you would normally go. Like, it's no surprise, no secret that whenever I, you know, been single, I love to work out and I love to eat food. So I would meet the guys I would go out with, and at a grocery store or at the gym, without fail, I'd meet them at Whole Foods because I'm always there or at the gym. I mean, like, that's why I think it's also really important to emphasize again and reiterate again, that it's so important to have things that you enjoy and that are like your hobbies and diversify your interest, right? And not everything goes into that partner. Not everything goes into that man. Because if it. It doesn't work, or even if it is working, you're actually. Both of you are. It's. It's actually a better dynamic when you both have things going on in your life.

[A]

Absolutely. Because if the relationship isn't working, you're more inclined to let it go. But if you have let your career slip, you've let your fitness slip, this is like your, your only thing that you have going on. You're not going to want to let.

[B]

No, absolutely not. That's why I was going to say like even like if you like, even if you're financially reliant, keep your body hot. Because if it does end, you'll find someone quicker. Stay hot, stay hot.

[A]

That's like my number one tip here.

[B]

Stay hot, stay hot, stay ready. You know like me and my friend always say this. Like they're like are you ready to go? I'm like I, I stay ready. I, I don't, I don't need to get ready. I stay ready to get ready. 100 I don't need to get ready because I'm already ready.

[A]

Cuz Exactly.

[B]

And, and guess what? What? It will, it shifts everything else anyway because I believe life also there is a big piece of this in self confidence and self esteem. If you have a higher self esteem and a higher self confidence, people will respond to you the way you respond to yourself. And like I think confidence is the sexiest thing out there for a girl, a guy, whatever, it doesn't matter. Yeah. And like someone will treat you accordingly. Right. If you don't like feel that you're so great and you feel kind of like not that attractive and not that fit and not that smart and not that capable. Guess what? Like it's not like if you putting that energy out there, they're gonna, they're gonna pick up on it and it won't be attractive to them either. I promise you.

[A]

Yeah. And people, and people think it's superficial, that you wanna stay hot. But when it comes to, you know, having a job, people understand that when you're, you know, when you've been at a job for three, four years, you know, keep your resume current, you know, you know, upskill. Like always be learning. Right.

[B]

And also like always be learning. But I like, I will always tell my friends that in general we talk with all the time like there's, when once you allow yourself the, like the, the, the permission okay. To let yourself go in every way. That's also when things start to slip and fall. Like keep. I think it's very important to keep the other person on their toes. This is what I liked about your content, right. Because you were speaking a language that like really resonated with me, like, I, I'm a big believer in all of this, right? Like, you gotta, like, you gotta like, know your worth. You gotta, like, have confidence. You gotta, like, you gotta show up for yourself. And like, no matter how someone's treating you, if you kind of have your own sense of self, your response to whatever they do is very different than if your self esteem is low, if you're insecure, if you feel unworthy, how you're gonna respond to that person and in life is very different. The opportunities that happen to you will happen very differently to you when you think that you deserve it versus the opposite. Right? Like, never let a guy, never let a guy or anybody think that, like, they're lucky to have, like, that you're lucky to have them. They should feel lucky to have you.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, men actually thrive in relationships like that where they feel like, oh, my God, I have no idea how I got this woman, but she's here and I'm grateful and I'm, I'm just happy 100%.

[B]

A lot of my, A lot of friends, I have, like, men, guy friends. The ones who are the happiest, the ones in the happiest relationships, the happiest marriages, is because the guy, honestly, he. They like, they are so, they, they feel so lucky and they're so. They feel like they won the jackpot with their wife or their wife. The ones who are like, yeah, she's fine. That's not a great, that's not a great place to be. You know what I mean?

[A]

No. And, you know, how often have you been to a wedding where it's the woman speaking and she's telling everyone about how, you know what? Yeah, he wasn't that into me, but, you know, eventually I, you know, I did a backflip and, and he noticed how great I was. And then.

[B]

I've never heard that.

[A]

Yeah, you never hear that. But how often have you heard a guy saying that? You know, she blew me off. She put me in her friend zone for a while, but, you know, it was a slow burn. And then eventually we fell in love. How often do you hear that?

[B]

I hear all the time. That's exactly true. I was going to say, like, the ones that actually tend to still be working years later, it's like when the guy had to work for it, I tried for so long, she'd blow me off, she said no. I kept on coming back, I kept on trying, I kept on trying. Guys need that. Like, I just think that, like, these are like this. To me, this Is like, just like human nature. Actually, this is like the laws of human nature.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is why I want to talk to you about now we're going to, like, kind of segue into something else that you talk a lot about, which is when. When you do break up. Breaking up is like a big one, Right. Like, you are big on no contact. Like, no contact and detachment.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. So does this scenario. Is it whenever you have a breakup in general, or there are certain circumstances where that doesn't apply, or does it apply all the time?

[A]

Well, I mean, if you have kids, that obviously doesn't apply. You obviously have to stay in contact to some degree. But I think, in general, no contact is the way to go, because otherwise, you are prolonging your healing. And you might think, oh, I don't want to block them. I don't want them to think this. I don't want them to think that this is your life. This is your life, and the more you avoid the inevitable, the more it's gonna hurt. And so would you rather do it right or do it twice?

[B]

Right. Or more than twice, actually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how is there, like, a certain thing, like a strategy or like, is it no contact forever? Or, like, what is it? Also, depending on what your intent is, are you doing no contact to get the person back, or are you doing no contact just to move on with your life? Like, there's different strategies that would be applicable depending on what you're trying to accomplish, Right?

[A]

Yeah. So I think that in general, no contact is forever. You know, if things ended and it was a very dysfunctional dynamic, like people were cheating, betrayal, like all those. Well, yeah, kinds of situations, really. Why would you want to be with someone that you literally had to heal from?

[B]

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[A]

Yeah, when you, when you have kids, when you have joint assets, when you work together, you know, I, I've had some clients where they have a business together and so it can be incredibly challenging. And so in those cases, no, but definitely having strong emotional boundaries. And these aren't things that you state, they're things that you just enforce and things that you have to hold yourself accountable for. Which means no contact is not going through their social media following, seeing if it's gone up or down. It's not showing up at the restaurant you guys used to frequent to see if you're going to bump into him. It's not reaching out to his friend saying, hey, how are you? I, I need help with this, I need help with. No, none of that. You need to cut it off completely. In fact, get one of those 30 day calendars and put it on your fridge. And every day that you maintain no contact, you're not looking at anything of theirs, cross it off. Really just focus on the next 24 hours because that's the way to go.

[B]

Also, the truth of the matter is scarcity breeds like curiosity and interest, right?

[A]

Does.

[B]

If you're always there to say, look at me, look at me, hey, I'm still here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that like, you're like defeating the, like, if, if your goal, again, not to be a manipulative person here, but if your goal is to kind of like get the person back and you keep on texting them and calling them and checking in on them, you're going about it wrong. You don't have to be a dating strategist to know that because this, again, it's the laws of human nature. Yeah, Scarcity breeds like interest, curiosity.

[A]

It's value.

[B]

Value.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. That's why like a Birkin bag has more value than, I don't know, I don't know, my Lululemon bag.

[A]

Right, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because there's less available.

[A]

You have to build a relationship and you never know when the reward is going to be. It's that intermittent reinforcement 100%.

[B]

So how does one detach from an ex? Is there like a framework people can work? Can you give people some strategies or Some, like, action item.

[A]

I do have one exercise that I tell my clients all the time, and the exercise is called what's the Story? Oftentimes when we think about, you know, the relationship deteriorate, deteriorating in our mind, we think it's completely different until we put it down on paper and we're making all of these rationalizations of, oh, he meant well, you know, he was just going through a hard time. Is he going through a hard time or is he just having a bad life? Like, if he's constantly doing this.

[B]

Oh, this.

[A]

This isn't who he truly is. Really. He did it 15 times. Who. Who else would it be? And so being able to put that down on paper and then going ahead and highlighting all of those inaccuracies and then rewriting that story that's free of those inaccuracies, so you can take him off that pedestal. Oftentimes when there's a breakup, you know, we. We put their love on a pedestal because we think, wow, like, it must have been me. I must have been the problem. And then allowing yourself to reframe the.

[B]

Situation, we all do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think everyone is guilty of that. Right. That's the problem, I think, though, with no contact, even sometimes. Right. Because I would think that the longer you don't talk to the person, the. The more time you have to romanticize the relationship and to reframe it into being better than it was.

[A]

Yeah. I. I see this quote all over TikTok, and it's. There's a lot of intimacy and never speaking again because all you're left is with the memories. Right. And oftentimes, yeah, we look back and we think it was better than what it really was.

[B]

How do we shake our, like, how do we kind of, like, get ourselves.

[A]

Out of that, realizing that it's not about the love that we had for them, it's about reminding ourselves of what we had to sacrifice. You know, when I think back to my, you know, previous relationship before I started my business, sure, I love that person, but I hated that version of me. And there was just no way I was going to birth the person that I am now if they were still in my life.

[B]

So tell me, what. What. What happened to you? Like, what was your. What was your like story? But, like, what that kind of got you on this path? I know we talked about earlier. You were doing tech work and this and that, but, like, okay, so what was your heartbreak?

[A]

So. So, yeah, I met them in. In 2019. It was kind of like a whirlwind Romance. I was visiting family in Nicaragua. And then Covid hit, and so we had to go our separate ways. He went back to Australia, I went back to Canada. But we. We kept, like, an online friendship for nearly two years throughout Covid. And we were video calling, you know, throughout the week. They were. These were hour long calls. I got to know this person on such an intimate level, right. Without even, like, seeing him. And then when borders opened up, I decided to go to Australia. And he said, you know, we didn't come this far to not see what we could be. And then I just. I went fully remote with my tech job. And when you're in Australia, you have to be on a working holiday visa. So I worked two jobs. I worked the tech job that was fully remote. And this is the craziest part. I was working at Krispy Kreme. Nothing wrong with that. But I was working these two jobs.

[B]

And because you had to have the.

[A]

Yeah, so I had to have those two jobs, right? So then three months into the relationship, I decided that I was gonna stay there. I. I noticed some messages that were, like, in his phone, and they made me really uncomfortable. And I remember he, like, he woke up. Cause it was in the middle of the night, and he's like, this won't ever happen again. And I said, if I ever catch you doing anything like this, I don't care what's happening, I will leave you. And then throughout the relationship, I just had this sinking feeling that he was doing things behind my back. There were certain stories that he would tell me, and it just wasn't sitting right with me. And then everything kind of came to a head when I found out I was pregnant. I found out I was pregnant. It was so stressful. It was kind of an ectopic pregnancy because I had an iud and I had just seen, like, the person that was, you know, so eager to be with me all of a sudden become the meanest person I have ever met. And at that point, we. We were engaged, we were living together. And I decided to quit my tech job to fully focus on, you know, building my life in Australia. Obviously, I didn't have full working rights at the time. And I just remembered thinking to myself, this is the most vulnerable I have ever been. And we were at his sister's wedding when I told him about, you know, the termination. And I said something about him getting a vasectomy. And he said, I don't want to play this game with you, but if you force me, I will. I provide this incredible life for Us, so you don't get to talk. And it was in that moment where I was like, I just knew everything. I need to leave this man. Right. The following week, I'm getting ready, going to work, and there's just something in me, like, he's doing something, and I need to know what it is. I go through his computer, and I see so many messages with different women, just really disrespectful stuff. And I know, you know, a lot of people that are listening to this, it's like, wow, you're gonna throw away a relationship because you just saw some messages? It wasn't about that. It was the fact that I had literally taken a massive step back in my career. I had put everything on the line, and for what? For him to disrespect me like this? For him to.

[B]

I don't think anyone would say that to you. I would say, absolutely. Why would they? You move your life to Australia. You quit your job, you're pregnant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I think that's a lot of. I think that nobody would listen and be like, why would she do that?

[A]

And. Yeah. And so things were probably the worst it had ever been. And I thought to myself, okay, maybe I can still see past this. Like, maybe we can still work through this. And I had asked him to live on base. Like. Like, he. He could live somewhere else for a couple weeks while I was, like, recovering from the termination. And I kid you not, I noticed that he had been following a girl from his past, one that we had, like, argued about. And what do you have it? I reach out to her, and I'm like, has he reached out to you? And the day I asked him to leave to give me space while I was recovering, he said, are you still living in Sydney? And that was my. That was it. I booked my flight, and I just. I was like, this will never happen to me.

[B]

What do you mean? Are you still living in Sydney? Who said that? The girl.

[A]

He said that to her. He said that to her because he wanted to go meet up with her for. For whatever reason. Yeah. While our relationship was literally falling apart. And it was in that moment where.

[B]

What year Was this now? 2020.

[A]

This was October 24, 2023. So not even two years ago. And so then I packed up my things, I moved back in with my parents. I was completely broke. And I remember one of the last things I asked him was, you know, please don't ever do this to anybody else. Can you just promise me that? And he didn't even give me a Straight answer. And I was like, you know what? I'll take it on myself. I'll learn everything I need to know, and I'll educate as many people as possible so that women don't have to go through this. And then. Yeah. Now, nearly two years later, I only. I. I have nearly a million followers across social media, and I. Yeah.

[B]

Has he. Has he reached out to you?

[A]

No, he hasn't, but there are some things I can tell you off camera just because I know he's in a relationship right now, and I don't want to embarrass anybody.

[B]

Wow, that's crazy. But you know what's actually even crazier? This happens all the time. Like, some form of that type of situation, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're young, though. How old are you?

[A]

I'm 26.

[B]

Yeah. So you're like a baby. So you. This is like, just the beginning for you. You're going to have, like. Oh, you have a boyfriend right now?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he's actually here with me right now.

[B]

Oh, really? Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I left all the bags.

[B]

I was going to say he's checking.

[A]

In at the hotel right now.

[B]

Cute. How did you meet this guy? Guy?

[A]

We met. We met on a dating app. I won't say the dating app because they're not paying me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But, yeah, we met on a dating app. And it was just easy. It was easy. We were very aligned, and he wasn't threatened by my goals at all. He just. He's kind of like the fuel to my fire. Like, very supportive, very, very ambitious.

[B]

What does he do?

[A]

He's in sales.

[B]

And how long have you been dating him for?

[A]

For a few months.

[B]

Oh, it's like. So it's fairly new.

[A]

Yeah. After I called off my engagement, I was celibate for probably a year. A year? Yeah.

[B]

And then you met this guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you probably met someone else before him. Or did maybe not. Did you go on a lot of dates afterwards?

[A]

I did go out on dates, but nothing that ended up being serious. I think I was just so focused on building my business and just establishing stability in my life that I think, yeah, it was only in, like, the last few months where I got to a point in my business where I was like, okay, you know, I feel safe, I feel comfortable. I think I'm ready to actually. Yeah. You know, prioritize dating and kind of just fell into my lap because, you.

[B]

Know, you talk so much about no contact and detachment that I. You know, for such a young girl, you know, I thought, like, how much experience have you had in the no contact? Like, what made you kind of double down on that part?

[A]

Double down on no contact?

[B]

Yeah. Like, I feel like a lot of videos that come up on my feed with you are about absence, detachment, no contact. Like, what. Why so many on that area?

[A]

Because that's what I think my clients struggle with the most. And that's what they. They want to know. There's so many.

[B]

Makes sense.

[A]

There's so many videos out there that are like, oh, play hard to get and, you know, make. Yeah, make him chase you. Right. But what about healing from a relationship? Nobody talks about these things. Why? Because it's in. It's embarrassing. You know, it's. It's hard to heal from the things that you can't even say out loud. And so I think trying to, you know, create content that's helping women in that stage of their life is. Is really important.

[B]

That's interesting. So would you say then that from all the experience that you've had with your clients and social media DMs, I would imagine is. That's the biggest struggle is that is like how to kind of stay away from.

[A]

How to stay away. How to stay away when you still. How to walk away from someone that you still love, that you want so badly, but you know that they're never going to get it. They're never going to get it, and you're just. You're tired.

[B]

Have you seen no Contact work all the time? What's the ratio?

[A]

Yeah, I think. Well, it depends what your goal is. I have one client in particular that she went no contact with this guy, and he went berserk in trying to repair things. She had actually moved to support him with his residency, and then he had taken her for granted. Her whole family ended up basically hating him. She moved back home, and he basically wrote her a book of all of the things that, you know, he was gonna do differently. He called her. Her parents. You know, he went to go and meet with them separately, saying, you know, I won't even try the further relationship unless I have your approval because I know she cares about you, you guys, the most. And it's. It's just not gonna work unless you guys are on board. And he. He went through the ringer and he made it work. And so I think that's why I. I do believe in the whole. If he wanted to, he could.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or he would.

[B]

He would. Yeah, right. I always think that too. If they wanted to, they would. I heard something funny the other day. It's that Was it like don't, don't chase somebody who knows where you are?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Who knows how to contact.

[B]

Who knows how to contact you? Which like, hit me really hard because it's so true. Right. Like, but we, we like spiral, right, because it's like a dopamine hit. Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. And yeah, it's tough because you know, when you're in no contact, what are you doing? You're betting on a future that doesn't exist yet.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so that, that's so tough because so many people stay, I know so many people that are in relationships right now where they're suffering, where they don't like it. And so I think it's just important to know that, you know, you're writing the story for your 80 year old self. And so what is your 80 year old self going to say?

[B]

Well, I, yeah, I mean, I think that people normally do no contact. I think it may start, it also depends on where are your reasons. Like if it may start with one thing, but then if you wait enough time, it will change. Right. Like you'll get over it because even though you're doing it, you're like, oh, I'm going to get this guy back or he's going to like really regret, you know, giving me up or whatever the thing is. But like if enough time passes, you end up kind of, the pain starts to like, like kind of lessen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And you end up kind of like it ends up working better for you in the long run.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to talk to you about dating norms again. And what have you seen change most dramatically in the last few years and what should people adapt to and what should people resist?

[A]

I think women wanting men to be more chivalrous and like wanting to pay for everything, this is the thing, I think that whether you're a 50, 50 person or you want someone to, you know, fully provide for you, both are perfectly fine. But I think where you get into trouble is when you know, you have these set of values and you know this person is not aligned and, and you go and you try and change them, you are going to exhaust yourself and you're going to end up resenting the person. And so I think that's really important just to focus on values, like not just how you feel, but. Yeah, values and also having fun. You know, I think a lot of people, they'll go into dating and they say, I want to find my forever person. Okay, yeah, you should have fun with the right one. But, well, if you're going to Be dating the wrong ones along the way, inevitably have fun with them too. You know, it's almost like when you go on vacation and you're staying in an Airbnb, you're not going to be there forever, but, well, I hope you'd have a good time. You know, how often have you been to an Airbnb and you see the coffee machine, you're like, wow, this is nice. This is amazing. The view is great. And so I don't think that there's anything wrong with even short term relationships. I think that a short term relationship where you two are together for a year and you two get to know each other, but you notice that, okay, we're going in two separate directions and you leave the relationship respectfully. I think that is more successful than being in a five year relationship where you two are tearing each other down, where you two are miserable but you're, but whenever it's your anniversary, it's like, oh, I've been with this person through, through these ups and downs and you know, you're doing it all for social media. Do you want to look happy or do you want to be happy?

[B]

Well, exactly. You know, there's something I also think is interesting in terms of overall relationships.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. If you fail at relationships or just don't have a long term relationship, like it's considered a failure. Let's say you have a, you have like four two year relationships. Right. You're considered to be a dating failure. Like, oh, what's wrong with you that you only had these like short term, you know, relationships versus this person who's had maybe a 16 or a 20 year relationship, but yet it was combative and they fight all the time and he hates her and she hates him and like, it's, it's so toxic. But because they've been together for that long duration of time, it's like considered to be a success because the, the time stamp is longer. Right. Like, I think that we have a very warped way of seeing what a successful relationship is and what it's not. And like to me, just because you are with someone longer doesn't make that relationship any more successful or doesn't make you more, more successful in relationships. I think the person who like saw a problem or didn't settle, got out quicker more times, is way more true to themselves and to like, what, how they want to live their life. And to me, that person's more successful in relationships, not the other way around.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's, I think it also has to do with the relationships of, you know, our grandparents. Our grandparents that's stayed together for 50, 60 years. And sometimes, you know, when you sit down with your grandmother and you ask her, oh, like, how did you and grandpa get together? And you're, do I need to call the police? You're actually concerned.

[B]

Yeah, well, like a lot of people, they just stayed together because that's what they did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so give me some more things on that, on that point. Like things that we should adapt to or resist.

[A]

I think that you should resist, you know, men being feminine. I think that, yeah, men aren't gonna like it, but it's better to be alone than to be with someone that you feel like truly doesn't deserve you. I think that sometimes women will go for the nice guy or the guy that's not so great looking because she thinks, oh, he's gonna treat me better, he's gonna do you even worse because he thinks that because you're giving him a chance, like I mentioned before, that he must deserve it. And so I think being able to stay single, be happy with, you know, who you are, and then, you know, dating someone that is either at the same level as you or above is important.

[B]

So when you say feminine, do you mean, like, takes on the feminine roles or are you mean, like, are you talking, like, neediness? Like, what it. When you say feminine, that's like a. That could be a very overarching.

[A]

I'm. I'm talking about men who want to be chased.

[B]

Oh, men who want to be chased.

[A]

Men who want to be chased.

[B]

Men who want to be the girl.

[A]

Yes, Men who want to be chased, pursued. They want you to, you know, take them on trips and, you know, ask them to prom. No, no, no, no.

[B]

But that's. By the way, that is what's happening in the world right now.

[A]

Yes, I know, it's alarming.

[B]

No, men want to be the ones who are, like, wined and dined and chased. It is so sickening. How is that attractive, ladies? If that's what you like. Please. That is such a turn off.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think what women really need to lean in is with taking up space. I think women so often we're shamed for taking up space. Oh, she's so loud. She's so demanding. She's so. She's such a princess. What else am I supposed to be, a doormat?

[B]

Yeah. Well, I think the other. Like we're saying, like, a lot of times if a man is not confident and secure, it's very emasculating. If a woman's successful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's why. That's why I think these dynamics are super important, like, in terms of, like, having like, roles in the relationship. I think that's. There's Nothing that is 1950s about that. Or maybe you. Maybe it is. I don't care. But I think that's really important. Is there anything else you want to talk, say, like, when you say you have these coaching programs, what do you do?

[A]

So I offer one on one sessions. I do have a three month coaching intensive called Dream Girl Academy. And then I do have some clients that are on a yearly retainer, so. And yeah, essentially women will come to me with their problems. We'll dive deep on, like, the dynamics that are going on and we'll just create a strategy moving forward. But I think for me, it's my goal to work my way out of your life so that you feel confident in the decisions that you're making so that you can trust yourself and that you can feel, you know, happy about your relationships, not just with men, but all around.

[B]

I love it. Well, thanks for being on the show.

[A]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[B]

Enjoy the rest of the time in la. I will. Thank you.