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Habits and Hustle
Episode 502: Lance Armstrong on VO2 Max, Endurance Genetics, and Why Cycling Beat Running
00:25:04
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- [00:01]
Lance Armstrong
Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
- [00:08]
Tony Robbins
Hey, friends. You're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast, where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable.
- [00:17]
Jen
Advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know.
- [00:22]
Tony Robbins
How you leveled up before we dive into today's episod to thank our sponsor, Momentous.
- [00:34]
Jen
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- [00:41]
Tony Robbins
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- [00:56]
Jen
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- [01:42]
Tony Robbins
Just act now. Start today.
- [01:44]
Jen
Jen for 20% off livemomentous.com let's go back to little Lance. Let's kind of like chronologically do this. Little Lance, because when you were little Lance, because you were not always, you weren't, you didn't start off as a cyclist. Right. You started off like you were doing swimming, I heard.
- [02:07]
Lance Armstrong
Sorry. Yep. Swimming was my first serious sport.
- [02:09]
Jen
Do you still swim?
- [02:11]
Lance Armstrong
Occasionally. It's funny, I. So when you're my age and you swim seriously, you would swim what they call Masters, right?
- [02:20]
Jen
I know Masters.
- [02:21]
Lance Armstrong
Right. But most people listening may not know master. Masters is it looks like a swim team for old people.
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Jen
Yeah.
- [02:29]
Lance Armstrong
So I grew up swimming with kids. And so. And if you're a serious swimmer at that age, you swim what they call age group swimming. Right. So kids, when they're young, they can sort of do the summer country club swim league, which is just in the summer. Or if you swim year round and you swim more serious, you swim age group.
- [02:48]
Jen
Right.
- [02:49]
Lance Armstrong
Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky, they grew up swimming age group swimming. So that means they swam twice a day every day, 12 months a year. That's how I grew up swimming. So then when you get older and you want to be a serious swimmer. You swim masters. Right. And so that's when I, like 15 years ago, I started swimming again. Seriously. And the master's team that I swam with is like two blocks from my house. I could walk there every day.
- [03:16]
Jen
Yeah.
- [03:17]
Lance Armstrong
And I just, I don't go that often and I haven't been in a while, but I can, I still enjoy swimming. I don't love chlorine.
- [03:25]
Jen
Yeah, no, to be honest with you.
- [03:26]
Lance Armstrong
Chlorine, you know, if I, if I lived at the beach, I would probably swim open water. I'd probably swim almost every day. But the chlorine thing and just kind.
- [03:38]
Jen
Of, it kind of steers you away from that. So my question more was like, okay, so you start off in swimming, like, how did you get into cycling? Was it. Did you have, it seems to me like your endurance is off the charts genetically. Were you tested? Did you have like, did you, was it just something. How did you know that cycling was going to be the sport? You did Swimming, which was an endurance thing.
- [03:58]
Lance Armstrong
And then I started doing triathlons.
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Jen
Right.
- [04:00]
Lance Armstrong
And then I turned pro in triathlon when I was 15.
- [04:03]
Jen
Okay.
- [04:04]
Lance Armstrong
And so then I knew that I had, I was getting results as a 15 year old kid racing against 30 year old men.
- [04:10]
Jen
Right.
- [04:11]
Lance Armstrong
That you didn't need to be in a lab to, to know that you had some, that I had the DNA or the talent to be an endurance athlete. But at that time I did, I lived in, I grew up in Dallas. So I went, I got asked to go be tested at a place in Dallas called the Cooper Clinic, which is pretty well known. It's a place that, it's not dissimilar to Mayo Clinic or other places where folks will go and get tested. So I went as a, as a young kid and the testing, you know, I did a VO2 Max test and all these things. And the physiologist was like, wow, this is. Not sure We've seen a VO2 like this before. So.
- [04:50]
Jen
But again, do you remember what it was?
- [04:52]
Lance Armstrong
I mean, I'm 53. It was 40 years ago, so. No, but it was high.
- [04:57]
Jen
Yeah, very. I heard it was 86. I don't know if that was right. That's what I read.
- [05:01]
Lance Armstrong
Who knows? It's funny, VO2 is having a moment again. Like, I feel like, you know, when we were at that, when I was that age and then, and then when I was cycling and at the Olympic Training center, we, we would test VO2 max. And then it kind of, you know, maybe it was prohibited because you needed all. You needed the lab, you needed the equipment. And now they've got these mobile units. And so it's having a moment again.
- [05:26]
Jen
It is.
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Lance Armstrong
And so anyhow. But it's, it's. There's a lot of different variables when it comes to PO2 max.
- [05:32]
Jen
But why? Okay, because another endurance, like when the try. Why cycling and not running? Like why. Why did you single out cycling?
- [05:40]
Lance Armstrong
Well, a couple things. One, I enjoyed cycling more.
- [05:42]
Jen
Okay, that's a good reason.
- [05:43]
Lance Armstrong
You wouldn't.
- [05:44]
Jen
Yeah, right.
- [05:45]
Lance Armstrong
I mean if you're, if you have the option to, to. To go for four or five hours and see 80 miles of beautiful terrain versus and no impact on the body versus, you know, you know, seeing 15 miles of beautiful terrain and a lot of it. I just, I just. And I was better at cycling. I quickly figured out that, that cycling was my strength. Now when I was a young kid and doing triathlons, I could swim with the front group. So I would come out of the water with the leaders. I would come off the bike with the leaders and they would run away from the, the, these guys that I would race with would run away from me because they were, I mean they were 30 year old men, they run a lot faster. And so I, I mean I still would finish top 10, but. But I knew that cycling was going to be the best of those of the three. So then I started just gradually transition to cycling and I went to the Olympic training center and then I got selected for the Junior World Championships team, which was in 1989, which was in Moscow, which is kind of wild. I mean this is, this would have been in August of 89 before the wall came down. Like I was a 17 year old kid in Moscow. Like it was, it was.
- [07:04]
Jen
That's crazy.
- [07:06]
Lance Armstrong
This is. And, and so that, that was. And then pretty much a year or two later I switched full time.
- [07:13]
Jen
How old were you when you won.
- [07:14]
Tony Robbins
The first Tour de France?
- [07:15]
Jen
How old are you?
- [07:19]
Lance Armstrong
27 years old.
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Jen
Your first one was 27?
- [07:23]
Lance Armstrong
Yep. So I think that's right. I'm trying to do the math. 1999. Yeah, maybe. Maybe 28 actually. Geez.
- [07:31]
Jen
Well, because let's. I want to. Like how, how do you train for that? Because I think people are. You hear it super grueling. It's like, it's, it's.
- [07:38]
Lance Armstrong
That's all true. It is cruelly horrible.
- [07:42]
Jen
Like I. People like you hear like little rumblings. But people who are not cyclists or who don't follow it. Can you describe why it is as grueling as people hear rumors to be, like, why is it so and so dangerous on top of it?
- [07:56]
Lance Armstrong
It's very dangerous. And I mean, I think that's the thing that it's obviously an endurance event. Obviously, it's three weeks, it's over 2,000 miles. It's every day. There are two rest days, but it's. Know the. It's recovery is difficult, but there are 200 guys on the road all trying to be at the same place at the same time. So you're not just. And of course, we are on a team. We had. In my generation, we had nine riders on the team, so we're racing against 190 other people. It's. It's hard to control that. And, you know, the roads are technical, there's crashes, there's mechanicals. And so it's a. There's a lot. Like, it's a mix of endurance, sort of nascar because you're fighting for position all the time. Strategy, politics. Right. Since you have the politics piece. When you think about it, if you're nine guys trying to control 200.
- [08:52]
Jen
Yeah.
- [08:52]
Lance Armstrong
You have to be political. You can't. No team can control that. You're constantly trying to find allies and friends in that peloton, and those people that are your allies and friends on day two might be your enemies on day eight.
- [09:09]
Jen
Wow.
- [09:10]
Lance Armstrong
So you're constantly trying to figure out the dynamics of this. This living thing that's going down the road known as the peloton.
- [09:18]
Jen
And so, like, what's the trait? Like, how do you train for that? Like, what's the training schedule? Like, how do you. Because it takes a very particular mindset person to be able to even go through the grueling training schedule. Like, do you remember what you did day in, day out?
- [09:34]
Lance Armstrong
Well, first of all, there's a lot of racing beforehand.
- [09:36]
Jen
Okay.
- [09:37]
Lance Armstrong
So it's not. You don't just show up to the Tour and say, I've trained perfectly. I mean, we would do, you know, anywhere from 40 to 60 race days before that. And then. And then obviously, a lot of training, a lot of reconnaissance.
- [09:52]
Jen
Do you have to do weight training? Because you had to be, like, skinny, right.
- [09:55]
Lance Armstrong
Like, very small, not a ton of strength training.
- [09:57]
Jen
So what do you. Is it all endurance training? Like, do you. Did you do, like, mental mindset tricks? And do you. Like, how do you psychologically prepare for that? Like, what. Is there anything on that side?
- [10:08]
Lance Armstrong
No, no. I mean, we. We. Other than being convinced I was going.
- [10:13]
Jen
To win, like, no. Exactly. But you have to. You have to believe your belief system on yourself has to be so strong like, that you. That you actually believe that you can actually.
- [10:23]
Lance Armstrong
I mean, not. Not the first couple, but after I got a couple under my belt, I was. I was pretty sure we were. I mean, look, anything can happen. You can have all these things I described. Accidents, illnesses, bad luck or just bad luck. You know, caught out in a crosswind, lose five minutes. I mean, this can.
- [10:40]
Jen
But what made you, like. I guess what made you so much, like, this is the thing. Okay, so I'm gonna not beat around the bush, obviously. Like, why is it that everybody on the Tour, like, I. You got caught for doping, but everybody was doing it. Right. So, like, the playing field right away.
- [10:56]
Lance Armstrong
Technically, I didn't get caught, but that's another.
- [10:59]
Jen
That's a whole other discussion. But my. My first.
- [11:02]
Lance Armstrong
I was exp. Certainly exposed but not caught. That's true, if that makes sense.
- [11:06]
Jen
No, explain it. I mean, because for people who don't, like, who are not familiar with, like, my. Of course I know, but people who are, like, younger, who are listening, who don't really know all the details of minutiae, people would just say, yeah, Lance Armstrong got caught for doping. Right. Which is.
- [11:21]
Lance Armstrong
That's fine, too. I mean, that's. That's. If that's.
- [11:24]
Jen
If.
- [11:24]
Lance Armstrong
If that's sort of the story that. Or the storyline that is. That has survived, then. Then that. That's. That's fair, too. But what I was just. And I was just half joking. I mean, being caught. Being caught. We obviously were tested every day.
- [11:39]
Jen
Right? Right. Right.
- [11:40]
Lance Armstrong
So being caught would be like you tested positive. I mean, there was none of that. It was. It was way more complicated. There was a. It was more of a legal process.
- [11:49]
Jen
Yes.
- [11:50]
Lance Armstrong
Than it was a success of the legal system and not a success of the anti doping system.
- [11:56]
Jen
But why do you think that you were made to be such a poster child, like people. Everybody was. My point was it such is so grueling. It's so horrible. I feel like the. It seems to me the baseline was. Everybody was doing it, and you still were in that baseline so much better and exceeded everybody else.
- [12:12]
Lance Armstrong
Yeah, I don't. I don't. I think that's right. And I think that that's not a popular answer. But the popular answer isn't an informed answer.
- [12:21]
Jen
Right?
- [12:21]
Lance Armstrong
The informed answer is. And this is. You know, I've talked a little about this in the past. The only people that matter. The only people that matter are the people who were in the race. That's it. In My opinion, that's all I care about. Now if 90% of them were yelling and screaming, you know, you know, lynch this guy, then that would suck. But the reality is 0% of them have said that. So they're all that matter, right? The people who were in the war and in the battles and in the trenches and in the fights and we're head to head. That's all that matters.
- [13:05]
Tony Robbins
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- [13:31]
Jen
You can use it on a sore.
- [13:32]
Tony Robbins
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- [13:46]
Jen
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- [13:47]
Tony Robbins
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- [14:27]
Jen
Like what would be the one thing that you wish people knew that hasn't really, that people don't realize or don't know? If there's like one piece of information that's been very misbranded in the, in the media, what would it be?
- [14:41]
Lance Armstrong
I mean, look, there's, I'm not going to get into the, the details of it because I've moved on with my life and, and I feel like I've done a decent job moving on with my life. What I will say is that there were a few things as this legal process played out to sort of reinforce and, and really to dance on my grave. There were three or four taglines and PR statements made that just weren't true. Right. And so that's, but whatever. I mean it, it, that's what those agencies chose to do and they're not, they're just simply not true. And the, again, if, if time tells the true story here and I'll just give an example, right? So if somebody says that guy right there pointing to me, that's the biggest fraud in the history of sport. I mean, come on, that's, that's easy to say at the time. That feels good for the other side to say, I'm sorry, that is not true. Right. And, and I know that. My competitors know that, my teammates know that. The people that I raced as a 15 year old professional triathlete know that. The people that I race as a 53 year old Hyrox athlete know that. So that's just the, they're just jerking themselves off.
- [16:01]
Jen
But hey, no, I think that's, I think, I think it's because I think also the biggest and best people love to see that person fall, right? And then rebuild. Like someone like you. Because you've had like between that. I was gonna.
- [16:17]
Lance Armstrong
I don't think they considered the rebuild. I mean, I don't, I think, I think I meant what I said. When you dance on somebody's grave, they're in the grave.
- [16:27]
Jen
That's true.
- [16:27]
Lance Armstrong
And that's what they did. And that's, that's. But, but that, that wasn't gonna stay in the grave.
- [16:34]
Jen
Well, also, you know, it's interesting, I said this to you before. It's like you, you were such, you were probably such a low place, but it didn't ever, it never really, it didn't seem like you ever got, it didn't take you into a bad place. It, I feel like you kept on succeeding over and over in other areas of life.
- [16:51]
Lance Armstrong
Yeah, but it's been, look, it's been 12, 13 years. That's a long time. So, so I, I had time. I didn't have time to, to, to be a professional athlete again. Right. Time was up for me. I was 40 years old and was banned in cycling, but I had time to be patient and to reimagine, reassess, reinvent, reemerge in whatever way. So I had time for that. But there was a long period, and I say long, I mean 5ish years where I was just patient and I just watched and waited and did all the things I just laid out, right? Primarily reimagining and reassessing.
- [17:34]
Jen
But even like we get, you get cancer at 25 years old, right? And like your doc, I read that your doctor gave you like basically 20% chance of living, right? And you're, you, you were that, that little amount you were able to, you know, against all odds, beat that and then go on again. To win. Like that to me says something about like your, your brain and your mindset and your will, I guess. Overall, the will is what I was. What I'm so fascinated by. Like is that something that is just so innate in you, like nothing can. Like you're like. It seems like you're actually are like you are like unstoppable. Is that something that you trained for? Are you just born like that? Like can people become that if they're not that way? Because you just are who you are, right?
- [18:21]
Lance Armstrong
I mean, look, I. Maybe, I mean that's, that, that's all sounds good, but.
- [18:28]
Jen
Yeah, but how do you. Like you. And then you went to win again.
- [18:31]
Lance Armstrong
And you like even I think some people are just better equipped. I was equipped to not quit. Right. And so I didn't quit when I was diagnosed and I fought for my life and I got my life back and then I fought to win the Tours and then, and then that got, that story got edited.
- [18:51]
Jen
Well, tell me about how, how did you even get. How did. Were you able to ever train like that again? Nevermind like people can't. People who are the healthiest as I've ever. I can't even imagine like cycling like around the block 40 times. How do you win?
- [19:04]
Lance Armstrong
The body comes back to that level.
- [19:07]
Jen
Like your cancer was all over your body, right? Like you.
- [19:09]
Lance Armstrong
Yeah, but then the cancer. I mean clearly, clearly. But I also, I was racing sick probably. I don't know for how long, but, but long enough to. In my mind I thought, well, God, I've been sick for. I mean I did the Olympics in Atlanta two months before I was diagnosed.
- [19:27]
Jen
I know.
- [19:28]
Lance Armstrong
It's so a part of me, part of me. If you're in and, and, and I'm just, I was just telling myself this, but I was like, wow, I've been sick for a long time. Like just imagine when I get healthy and I get all of this stuff out of my body.
- [19:40]
Tony Robbins
Wow.
- [19:41]
Lance Armstrong
Like I'm gonna be super badass then. Now I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was telling myself.
- [19:47]
Jen
And so did you do. Do a lot of self talk? Like I want to know like the intricacies. Like do you have. Do you, do you talk to yourself to like push you? Do you like, what's your, like what do you. What goes on in your brain? Is there a narrative? Is there like.
- [19:59]
Lance Armstrong
I mean I don't, I'd have to. I don't push myself. It's been a minute since I pushed myself. Like back then we trained a lot and pushed ourselves a lot and I don't do that anymore. So It's.
- [20:11]
Jen
But you kind of like, you still are training daily.
- [20:13]
Lance Armstrong
Yeah, but not, not like that. I'm just. I'm just. I mean, I do. It depends if I ride my bike, those. That takes longer. But if, If I train in the gym or go for a run, I mean, it's an hour a day. It's not, you know.
- [20:26]
Jen
No, I know it's not. But what I'm saying, like, okay, after you. When you got diagnosed with cancer and then you beat cancer, what was the process to get back to be like a champion again? Like, what did you do? What was the. What was the mental.
- [20:38]
Lance Armstrong
I just went straight back to it.
- [20:40]
Jen
Didn't even.
- [20:41]
Lance Armstrong
No, I went. I mean, I took a year off. I took the year I was all of 1997. I didn't raise. So then I just. But when I went back, I strayed back in my.
- [20:51]
Jen
My question is, I think that people, like, are. Well, this is what I want to know is, like, when I. You just. Overall, like, if you are succeeding in a lots of different areas, like business, you've become like a rock star. And like, with. With next ventures, the. The cycling, like, it seems like everything that you do there is like a massive level of success. Okay. So to me, that's. That is indicative of someone's like, mindset and will and determination and ambition and all these things. Right. My question is really. Not even a question, but is that just something you've always been like, that's just who you are and that's just how you. Like, how does somebody. Is there, like, is there like, actionable things that people can do to become better that way?
- [21:33]
Lance Armstrong
I mean, look, I grew up in a. In a. With a mother, a single mother, more or less a single mother that had me very young. And yeah, she overcame a lot of odds different than my obstacles, and she wasn't an athlete, but she just didn't. She never quit. Like, she was constantly pushing, just trying to defy the odds. Right. Whether it's, you know, having a kid at 17 years old in Dallas, Texas. Right. With, you know, with. No, obviously, obviously she was in a relationship, but had never met. My father said. But this was not an ideal situation. But she didn't care. I mean, she just. She was dead set on having me. And. And, you know, we grew up poor and I say grew up poor. I mean, we didn't grow up. We. At that time, we were very poor. Then she remarried and that relationship wasn't perfect and. But she stuck. You know, she just, she's just. She's tough. She has grit. She's overcome a lot. I do think that. That you either. That's just a part of my DNA, But I've also absorbed a lot of that just by having watched her as. As I grew up. And we grew up together. Right. Keep in mind, my mom was 34 years old when I graduated high school.
- [22:48]
Jen
Wow.
- [22:49]
Tony Robbins
Wow.
- [22:50]
Lance Armstrong
So I think there's a. There's a lot of that. I mean, if I look back to my diagnosis and if I look back to the last decade, I attribute a lot of that to my mother. Right. Who overcame a lot of long odds, you know, to build a life for herself and to build a life for me.
- [23:06]
Jen
Would you say would be the one thing that people don't know about you? Is there something that you would say?
- [23:12]
Lance Armstrong
Oh, I think this. I think when people get to know me, I'm a lot goofier than people. Like, I don't take myself. I take myself seriously, but most of the time, I do not take myself very seriously. So it's like a good example, right? Is obviously my kids know me, right? They're like, my dad is a goofball.
- [23:33]
Jen
Would they say that about you?
- [23:34]
Lance Armstrong
Yeah, for sure. But my. But their friends would. Would be like, oh, my God, you're. You know, and then they get around their friend's father, who's me, and they're like, wow, this. That's not what I expected. Like, this guy's is a goo.
- [23:49]
Jen
I totally know what you mean.
- [23:50]
Lance Armstrong
Like, I'm way more playful, and you.
- [23:53]
Jen
Don'T take yourself seriously.