Episode 520: The Best of Habits & Hustle: Touré Roberts (ONE Church LA Founder)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle – Best of Habits & Hustle: Touré Roberts (ONE Church LA Founder)

Host: Jennifer Cohen
Guest: Touré Roberts
Episode: 520
Release Date: January 16, 2026

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Overview

This episode features Touré Roberts, founding pastor of ONE Church LA (now known as “One”), bestselling author, entrepreneur, and a prominent figure in spiritual empowerment. Roberts shares his unique life journey, insights into modern faith leadership, how he found his purpose, the relationship between failure and growth, building real balance, and actionable advice on resilience and setting boundaries. The episode weaves Roberts's personal stories—often raw and humorous—with practical wisdom for anyone seeking fulfillment, focus, and impact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Touré’s Unconventional Path to Ministry

• From Business & Tech to Faith:
  Touré started in business and technology, running a successful data center company. Despite external success, he felt “internally a mess”—experiencing pride, emptiness, and crisis when his marriage failed.

  “Externally, things were fantastic… but internally I was a mess. I was puffed up and proud.” (01:43)

• A Spiritual Awakening:

  • A personal crisis (marital breakup, self-reflection) led to a quest for spiritual truth.
  • Attended a new church, experienced a deep resonance with messages, and had recurring dreams that clarified his calling.

  “I didn’t really choose ministry. Ministry was the organic overflow of what was happening in my life personally.” (06:25)

• The Dream That Became His Calling:
  In a vivid dream, he helped his daughter discover she could fly—learning his gift was to help others realize their own "wings.”

  “My gift is to see the wings that other people have and to communicate...compel their wings, and they will fly.” (09:10)

2. Authenticity and Relevance in Faith

• Relatable Leadership:
  Touré emphasizes remaining authentic, swearing when natural ("I was a person before I was a pastor"), and relating faith to real life, attracting a younger, non-traditional demographic.

  “My audience are a bunch of cussers...They just want something that’s real. They don’t mind faith as long as faith can fit their lives.” (03:35–04:25)

• Diversity and Inclusion:
  His vision for spiritual community was always non-sectarian, ethnically and socioeconomically diverse, emphasizing unity and practical value.

  “God’s kingdom is this big, beautiful, diverse kingdom or else I couldn’t serve a God who wasn’t diverse.” (21:11)

3. Intuition, Grit, and Resilience

• Learning to Trust Intuition:
  Distinguishes between childhood "gut feelings" in unsafe environments (growing up in Watts) and spiritual intuition—an “organ of perception” one learns to trust through experience.

  “It almost becomes unnatural to suppress it. It’s the fruit of following it or the pain of not following it that puts you in a place to trust it.” (15:39)

• Surviving and Learning from Adversity:
  Shot in a drive-by at 16 (16:18), Touré credits intuition and his mother’s guidance for his survival, and advocates learning from every misstep.

4. Building and Scaling a Modern Spiritual Movement

• Bootstrapping ONE Church:
  Started by renting hotel rooms, making his own flyers (“atrocious!”), and giving speeches—80 people came to the first gathering.

  “I didn’t even know it was a church…I just want to reach people.” (19:00–20:12)

• Explosive Growth and Influence:
  Growth accelerated after relocating to North Hollywood, attracting “young Hollywood”, creatives, and those disillusioned with traditional religion.

  • Many attendees went on to major success (e.g., Brian Kennedy, Leslie Odom Jr.).
  • His church became a hub for innovative, influential, and often vulnerable young professionals.

• Big Lessons in Outreach:

  • Marketing efforts failed; organic word-of-mouth and being "real" created the community’s foundation.

  "I really felt God say, this is not going to happen by human effort...I stopped [marketing] and people just started walking in." (23:08)

5. Lessons from Loss, Failure, and Resilience

• Public Setbacks (TV Show, Business Deals):
  Roberts recounts how losing a major network show (despite high-profile backing) and a failed acquisition humbled him.

  “I only knew how to win…I didn’t know how to lose. Sometimes for the sake of development, it’s better to lose than to win.” (35:43)

• How to Get Back Up:

  • Step 1: Give yourself “permission to say ouch” and acknowledge the pain.
  • Step 2: “Do an autopsy” on the experience, searching for lessons without ego or blame.

  “If you don’t acknowledge it hurt, there’s no chance to get that wound healed. You’re gonna be a victim forever until you say ouch.” (40:10)

6. Defining and Achieving Balance

• A Radical New Definition of Balance:
  Not juggling or dividing time, but striving to be whole and giving your best self in sequence—not all at once.

  “Balance isn’t dividing yourself up—it’s becoming all of yourself and giving your best self to things in sequence.” (48:37)

• Signs You’re Out of Balance:

  • Stagnation; weariness beyond normal tiredness; growing envy/jealousy; declining thought life.

  “Stagnation is a sign I’m imbalanced…jealousy, envy, declining thought life.” (50:48)

• First Steps Toward Balance:

  • Stop moving. Touré highlights the power of the Sabbath—the discipline of stopping and silencing distractions.
  • “No one wants to do that. Noisy is normal. Noise is a distraction.” (55:29)

7. Personal Life, Marriage, and Partnership

• Relationship with Sarah Jakes Roberts:

  • The pair connected through a professional introduction; both had previous marriages.
  • Touré saw Sarah’s public potential before she did—he provided her first platform, later becoming partners in ministry and business.

  "Literally, one [church] became the platform that sprung her out." (71:37)

• On Being Partners and ‘Competition’:

  • Their success is complementary, not competitive; they “sharpen each other,” seeking to help, not outpace, one another.

  “When you see one of us, you see both of us…that’s my best friend in the whole world.” (92:13–92:44)

8. Business Savvy in Church and Beyond

• Financial Model and Growth:

  • The church is donation-based; there's no forced membership.
  • COVID led to less overhead and more capacity for outreach.
  • Digital attendance broadened reach but reduced donation averages vs. in-person giving.

• Multiple Business Entities:

  • Runs a multimedia company focusing on music and entertainment production.
  • Touré Enterprises covers books and leadership speaking.
  • Sarah’s "Woman Evolve" is a separate but collaborative platform.

9. Boundaries and the Power of Saying No

• The "90/10 Rule" of No:
  Roberts advocates saying no to opportunities and requests 90% of the time—a filter to preserve energy and ensure the best yeses remain possible.

  “No is everything because yes is expensive…My ‘no’ just qualified the relationship.” (100:16)

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Notable Quotes

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------|---------|-----------| | “Externally, things were fantastic… but internally I was a mess. I was puffed up and proud.” | Touré Roberts | 01:43 | | “I didn’t really choose ministry. Ministry was the organic overflow of what was happening in my life personally.” | Touré Roberts | 06:25 | | “My gift is to see the wings that other people have and to communicate…compel their wings, and they will fly.” | Touré Roberts | 09:10 | | “My audience are a bunch of cussers...They just want something that’s real. They don’t mind faith as long as faith can fit their lives.” | Touré Roberts | 03:35–04:25 | | “I never saw this coming. If you told me I’d be a pastor, I would have laughed and asked what you were smoking.” | Touré Roberts | 10:13 | | “It almost becomes unnatural to suppress it. It’s the fruit of following it or the pain of not following it that puts you in a place to trust it.” | Touré Roberts | 15:39 | | “I didn’t even know it was a church…I just want to reach people.” | Touré Roberts | 19:00–20:12 | | “Sometimes for the sake of development, it’s better to lose than to win. …Never waste a perfectly good failure.” | Touré Roberts | 35:43 | | “If you don’t acknowledge the fact that it hurt, there’s no chance to get that wound healed. You’re gonna be a victim forever until you say ouch.” | Touré Roberts | 40:10 | | “Balance isn’t dividing yourself up—it’s becoming all of yourself and giving your best self to things in sequence.” | Touré Roberts | 48:37 | | “Stagnation is a sign I’m imbalanced…jealousy, envy, declining thought life.” | Touré Roberts | 50:48 | | “No is everything because yes is expensive…My ‘no’ just qualified the relationship.” | Touré Roberts | 100:16 |

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• Touré’s Backstory and Spiritual Calling – 01:43–13:59
• Growing ONE Church & Attracting Young Hollywood – 19:00–29:00
• On Failure, Loss, and Resilience – 35:00–44:30
• Writing His Book ‘Balance’ and Overcoming Self-Doubt – 44:31–48:09
• Defining Balance & Recognizing When You’re Off – 48:23–53:10
• How to Get Back in Balance – 53:10–56:02
• Touré & Sarah: How They Met & Work Together – 64:09–71:56
• Business Structures and Church Finance – 75:37–83:00
• On Boundaries and Saying No – 97:58–100:57

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Memorable Moments

• The Flying Dream: Touré interprets the call to help others "find their wings."
• Honesty About Being Shot: Touring tells how getting shot at 16 shaped his intuition and resilience.
• The "No" Chapter: The candid rule that “yes is expensive,” and you should cherish your “no.”
• Chemistry with Sarah: The first meeting at the Peninsula and realizing their unique synergy.
• Organic Church Growth: Abandoning marketing, relying on faith and authenticity—and watching the congregation double.

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Final Takeaways

• Touré Roberts’s journey is a testament to reinvention, authenticity, and finding purpose through both pain and victory.
• Building a vibrant life and community begins with being whole, learning from losses, and maintaining firm boundaries.
• Roberts’s style is refreshingly candid, relatable, compassionate, and entrepreneurial—making faith accessible and relevant for a new generation.

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For more on Touré Roberts:

• YouTube.com/toureroberts
• Book: Balance: Positioning Yourself to Do All Things Well

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This summary omits ad reads, intro, and outro content, focusing on substantive discussion for actionable listening.

Transcript

[Torre Roberts]

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So today we have Torre Roberts. He is the founding pastor of the One church which is one of the most influential faith and empowerment congregations in the entire world. Is that correct? It is that correct?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, only because it's here in la. So it's not the biggest, but the reach because of those who come and those who subscribe to it makes it influential. So it's influential city plus influential people come there. Yeah, that's part of it. The other part of it is online. We have so many. We have like over 700,000 subscribers. Store.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How many?

[Torre Roberts]

700,000 subscribers to our channel on YouTube.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right? That was her. Yes, of course I saw that. I couldn't believe how many that is.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, it's a lot and. Which is a whole nother. How did that even happen? You know, it's crazy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, first of all, I want to start by saying this. Before we started this podcast, when I was asking you, how do you even become a pastor? I'm Jewish. I don't know want you to tell me that whole thing. But I was saying that for those who don't know, your wife also is a pastor, Sarah, and your father in law, who is super famous, TD Jake. And I was under the assumption that you kind of became a pastor through him. Like that you met Sarah and they kind of brought you into the business and you, you said no, no, no, no. Actually, like that's absolutely not what happened. So I want to really start by your backstory, like how you started then how you kind of became like this, this family affair unit. Yeah. So let's start from the beginning.

[Torre Roberts]

Great story.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, go ahead, you're on.

[Torre Roberts]

So, So I. My background is business and technology. So before the faith world, before the spiritual world, I used to build Data Centers for Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies. And so that was me. I was very successful from that. I started my own company that was a complimentary service to the corporation that I was working for. That company took off and made me more money than the corporation that I was working for. And so things were fantastic and great externally, but internally I was a mess. In all honesty, I've always been a good person, but I was pretty full of myself and. And I just wasn't. I was puffed up and proud. And so I had a spiritual awakening. I was 26 years old. I had a spiritual awakening. And ultimately for me, it was.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What was this? Why? What, what kind of, what was the kind of the catalyst the catalyst. Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So I was married, and. And my marriage was falling apart, and. And we got separated and we were splitting up, and I said, all right. You know, my family was my stability. I was still crazy and wild and doing stuff that, you know, a married man shouldn't do, to be honest with you. I was young, in my twenties. No excuse, but it's just. It is what it is. And so if my. My family structure, my stability was going to be disrupted, my conscious said, hey, you. You better try to get close to God. You better really try to get yourself together spiritually, because, you know. You know, karma is a bitch. Is a bitch.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I mean, can you swear? Are you allowed to?

[Torre Roberts]

I'm a grown man and grown. Amen.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you could swear if you want.

[Torre Roberts]

For sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. I. You see, I would. See, I would think that you wouldn't be able to.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, no. I was a person before I was a pastor.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, that's true.

[Torre Roberts]

And I will always be a person. And to be honest with you, my audience are a bunch of cussers.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really? Okay.

[Torre Roberts]

Yes. Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Who is your audience? Like, who are the.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I mean, it. It's diverse, but. But a lot of young people, a lot of millennials. My. My average follower, if you would, is between 25 and 49, 70% female, 30% male. They're young professionals locally. Many of them are in entertainment. They're in the business. And I think, for the most part, they're people who maybe wouldn't subscribe to traditional faith, a traditional expression of faith. They're influencers. They're culture shakers, and they just want something that's real. They don't mind faith as long as faith is big enough to fit their lives.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

And so I hope I answered that question.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no. Because that's what I was saying earlier. You wrote, I should say also, Tori wrote a book called Balance. This is your third book. We're going to talk all about it after. And what I was found to be really nice and delightful, I guess, was while I was reading it, was that it is very mainstream. It's for people. You don't have to be super religious or one, like, very Christian or very this or very that. There's something your teachings and what you do is very much. It can resonate with lots of different people. But anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt you, so continue. So you were having this life crisis, basically.

[Torre Roberts]

Life crisis. And so I started really seeking God. And the only, you know, interpretation of God I had was my mom's church. And so but the only thing is, my mom's church was very small. And I don't mean small in number, although that would probably be accurate. They were small in their perspectives. And so I couldn't go there, but I said, all right. And it was a Christian church. Let me try out this other church that I felt like was, it was more young. The guy was older, but he was drawing young people. And I started sitting in that church and it was like every message he was talking to me, you know, it was like, wow, you ever, I don't know if you've ever had that happen where you're somewhere and somebody's speaking and what they're saying is resonating deep within. And for me, the message was clear. This was over about a seven month period. You need to really, you know, give your life to God. You really, you need to really prioritize your spirituality. And I did that. I didn't think that it was going to be anything more than me just practicing my spirituality, but when I started talking to people about my spirituality, it was having an effect on them. And so I didn't really choose ministry. Ministry was kind of like the organic overflow of what was happening in my life personally. And then I did have a moment where I felt like this divine calling. I mean, that's a long story. But ultimately, through a series of dreams, the message was clear. You have to love people the way that you love your firstborn child. And you have a gift to communicate to people in a way that unlocks the gift that they have that they just don't know it. So again, that was a whole ordeal. That would be a whole nother podcast to tell you how that unfolded.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But, but you're having dreams, though. You were saying, like, I know you don't want to go, like go that deep into the weeds, although I now I'm super interested.

[Torre Roberts]

Okay, we could do it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But. So you were. That's kind of what that was. That kind of the precipice. You were having these dreams about that. And then that said, okay, I'm going to pivot to becoming, putting myself in the ministry. Is that basically?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I was having these dreams.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And what were you seeing in the dream?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, God. Well, I'll tell you one dream. So I'm in the dream. It's me and my daughter. And, well, first, prior to that scene in the dream, I'm taken up. I ascend at a high rate of speed. And then I come to a halting stop. It's just a stop. But prior to stopping I burst through this cosmic, clear film. And then when I got there, it was like I knew everything. There was nothing I did not know. It was strange. Like I had just total knowledge. And then cut to me and my daughter, my firstborn child. Her name is Lauren. And in the dream, she had a gift. She could fly, but she didn't know that she had this gift. And so in this dimension, there was a whole bunch of hordes of evil people, or beings, whatever. They were creatures, and they were coming to get us. And my response to it was to tell Lauren. I said, baby, fly, baby, fly. And she's like, dad, I can't fly. I'm like, yes, you can. And I believed in her wings. And I'm like, baby, you can fly. She's like, no. I said, just put out your. Put out your wings and fly. And she is lifted up, and we both are lifted up, and we're saved from this hoard. And so that happened a few times. And so. And I. I woke up and I'm sweating and I'm crying. I feel deeply moved by this dream. And when I really sought, like, the interpretation of the dream, it was clear. First of all, you have to love every human being the same way you love your firstborn child. Two, you can't fly. You don't have wings. Your gift is to speak to. Your gift is to see the wings that other people have and to communicate you have. You can compel their wings, and they will fly. And as they are lifted up, you will be lifted up. And it was so very, very profound dream. And it's been that way when I. When I see people. I mean, first of all, loving on that level is not easy, but I practice it. You know, I practice. I don't care if you're homeless, on the street. You know, obviously, evil people are kind of hard to love. And I'm still a work in progress on that. But. But just because you're struggling, you've had misfortune in your life, or you've done, you know, you just haven't been the best person. I'm very compassionate, so that's a gift. But I've seen that. I've seen. When I see people, I just see their wings. Like. And. And so, you know, from the books that I write to the messages that I share, it's all about me speaking to what's in you. And I just know. I just know it's in there. And if. And if you'll listen, and if we spend time together, if you'll listen, there's going to be something in what I say that unlocks your wings. And as you're lifted, I'm lifted because I've got to. I've got to do what I do. That's the calling.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So before, before this dream and before you were 26 and all this, this never like, this was never even occurred to you to be involved in anything like this?

[Torre Roberts]

Absolutely not. I'll be honest with you, Jennifer. If you would have come to me 25 years ago and say, hey, Torre, you know, I just discerned that you're going to be a pastor, you're going to be a minister, I would have laughed uncontrollably, asked you what you were smoking and where I might be able to get to.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Exactly right.

[Torre Roberts]

It was, it was like that. No, I never saw it. Ironically enough, I used to want to be a child psychologist when I was very young.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, okay.

[Torre Roberts]

And so, but I went into business. And so it's, it's, it's a strange journey, the way that, that life takes you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But you said those, you said a couple things that was interesting, like that to be doing this, you have to love everybody else like you love your firstborn. You have to. Who says all these. Is this what you say or did that. Does that. Is that what happened in the dream? Or does someone tell you that, or.

[Torre Roberts]

No, this is that. And this is my calling. I don't think that that's a universal approach to calling. But in the dream when I.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's what they were. That's what that, the feeling.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, yeah, it was good because I'm like, what's the significance? When I'm, I'm really questioning, you know, God, you know, my interpretation of God. What is, what's the significance of, you know, I get my gift to communicate, you know, to see the gift I get. The person has the gift and they can fly. And I said, but what, why did you use my first born child, my daughter? I mean, I just, you know, she just got. I just married her, you know, sent her away. She's away. But why did you use her? And he was like, think about, why do you think I would use her? And I thought about how I feel about her. I love, I love all my kids. At the time, I only had two. Only my two daughters. We have six combined now. But. And I love both, you know, my daughter Taya, who was the middle child, I love her immensely. But there's something about your firstborn, the one that brings you into fatherhood, the one that changes your life. The moment That I knew she was coming. My life changed immediately. And so he's like, it's plain. Look, think about how you feel about her. You love her, you love her unconditionally. You believe in her. You want to protect her. You want to see her prosper and thrive. If you love everybody I send you like that, you're going to be an incredible leader, incredible spiritual leader.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Do you hear voices or is it just like. That's what I'm trying to get.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What do you hear? Is it just a feeling? Is it like an intuition?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, it happens several ways. But the best way for me to describe it is it's a knowing. You know, I think that you know, and again, this is my. My interpretation. But if our Creator gave us ears to hear, nose to smell, eyes to see, hands to have tactile experiences, then why would he not create us with an organ of perception, some sort of ability to perceive things that are. That transcend the natural realm? And so I call it minor and, you know, some. I call it an instinct or what have you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But.

[Torre Roberts]

But once you cultivate that, we'll call it an instinct. Once you sense something, for example, here's what happens. A lot of times, a lot of times you'll feel something, you'll sense something, and maybe it's, I should act on something or not act on something, and then you don't act on it, or you do act on it, and you realize, wow, man, that was bigger than me. I felt like this might happen, but I didn't respond. And this is the outcome I got. And so there is this kind of like a trial and error. You develop that organ of perception, and sooner or later you just know to call it God, to call it divine, because once you begin to trust it and step out in it and employ it, it leads you to spaces and places that transcend coincidence.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You know, a lot of. A couple of people I know who are not, who don't do what you do, but they think that they are intuitive and they are vibrating, I guess, at a different level or a different dimension or the different dimension, that's how they would describe it. But it's very hard to wrap your head around it because they say that we're in dimension three. Do you know this whole thing about diamond diamonds, that's. That really is a whole other podcast. But. But I guess my. My point is, do you believe then, like, if you are you. You felt that feeling, you were like, do you feel like you're vibrating at a different place and like you're more. And also you're doing it because you are acting on that gut intuition versus ignoring it. I think a lot of people ignore those, those feelings and they just push them down or they get distracted.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What made you not just get distraction. Sorry. Get distracted or, or push them down. What made you act on those?

[Torre Roberts]

Because they worked. It worked, you know, when I didn't do it. And now that intuitiveness. I do kind of remember that from being a kid.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, you do?

[Torre Roberts]

I do kind of remember, like, you know, I would sense, you know, hey, something's going on. Something, something's getting ready to happen. You know, I grew up in a, in a challenging neighborhood. I grew up in Watts, so, you know, I was starting East Oakland, grew up in Watts. And there would just be. You could just feel like something's going to happen. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm out of here. And then you'd hear the next morning there was a shooting or something like that took place. Or you're at a club. It's a club, of course. And you know, you had a club and you just feel like, man, something is weird here. You know, Sunset, Roxbury. I used to do all that here.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right, of course.

[Torre Roberts]

You know, and so, so in hindsight, I remember that, but this is different. And I think that you begin to trust it because it never disappoints. It's, it's, it almost becomes unnatural to, to, to suppress it, to, to ignore it. And so it's the fruit of following it or the pain of not following it that, that really puts you in a place to trust it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Also, because, like, you, you were just saying, which is a good segue to your background. Like, you were gripping Watts. You said, weren't you involved in shooting also? Like, didn't you get shot by a drive by shooting?

[Torre Roberts]

I did. And so in that area, you know, I was blessed because my, my, I had a great family. Thank God.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That makes a big difference.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, great family. And the street that I lived on was safe. It's like there was like drugs on the next street, you know, shootings on another street. But, like, for some reason now, I believe it's God's protectant protection, but for some reason on my street, it was safe. But, you know, if you leave your street. And that's what I did. I, I, my mom always told me, like, look, you can use my car at 16, but just don't have anybody in the car. And, and I'm like, mom, what do you know? I can have somebody in the Car. Well, the guy that I had in the car was gang affiliated. And so. So we're out driving and, you know, he gestures at some guy. And these guys are grown. I'm 16, and they just pull out a gun and start shooting. And so at 16 years old, yeah, I got. I got shot and nearly died. And where did they shoot?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Where did they get you?

[Torre Roberts]

They shot me in kind of in the back, the shoulder area. And the. And the bullet went forward and lodged in my esophagus. And so my esophagus is ruptured. I'm spitting up blood. I'm thinking, oh, I've seen this in the movies. I'm dying.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, my gosh.

[Torre Roberts]

You know, and. And it was traumatizing in that. Sixteen, quite frankly, I prepared myself to die. And I remember being in the hospital. My mom, you know, came in the hospital and I just said, mom, you know, I'm sorry. You know, you told me not to have anybody in the car, and I did, and here I am. And I said, but, mom, don't worry, you know, if I die, you know, I'm going to heaven. I'm trying to encourage my mom. And she wasn't having that. And, you know, she prayed for me. And the next thing you know, supernaturally, I was healed. The bullet moved, which. It's a whole other story, but it lodged itself in a safe place and. And, you know, I was back on my feet. But it was a. It was a lesson. You know, maybe that lesson was. Maybe that one was less about intuition but more about. Listen to your mama, boy. Yeah, I'm a little best boss.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I was going to say, next time you listen to your mom.

[Torre Roberts]

Exactly. And I do today, by the way.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You do. Okay, good. That's good. I like to hear that inside the mom to little boy. So then. Then how did you. So what was. What was the next thing? So do you go to school for this? Like, what have you practiced? Because, you know, like, you've got to write these terms. Like, how do you. How do you start this thing where now you have, like, almost a million people following you on. On YouTube with this, and you have a congregation, and what, like, what do you do? Like, what's the process then? Now, you know, you have a gift or you have a calling or a knowing. Then what?

[Torre Roberts]

So it depends based on the denomination, what the requirements are. But for me, what happened was I discovered my gift. I discovered that, wow, you know, this is happening to me. And as I'm sharing this with people, their lives are changing. Now I'M a business person. I can't, you know, remember, I was brought up in business. So I'm thinking, structure. How do I get the biggest impact from my effort? You know, this is great to sit around a coffee shop and talk to your friends or whatever, but, like, that's time and energy and effort, and I just want to have a big impact. So the business guy in me said, you got to create a space, you know, Now, I didn't even know it was a church. I didn't come up really around the church. My mom, you know, was around Eastern, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I didn't know the. The business of church. I didn't know the structure, church. I didn't care about any of that. I'm like, listen, I've got this gift. I've got this attraction. People are attracted to me, and their lives are changing. So I went out and I got. I rented out a hotel room in Culver City, you know, and, you know, put my money, own money in. I didn't know that, you know, that. That you can be a nonprofit and the people can. I. I didn't care. I want to reach people. So I took my money. I start, you know, I start in this hotel room, and I just, you know, I created flyers. You ought to see this first flyer. It was so pathetic. I was in business, not graphic design. It was. It was atrocious, and I'm embarrassed now. I'll show you one.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, show it to me. I'd like to see it. Yeah, but.

[Torre Roberts]

But I just started, and on the first day, 80 people came to the hotel room.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And what did you do? You just did, like, a speech.

[Torre Roberts]

Stood up, gave a speech, you know, asked who wanted to join this. This movement. And, you know, and what was it called? It was called Saints. It was a corny name. I changed it, but it was called, like, Saints United. And ultimately what that meant to me was, you know, saints is kind of a church term. You know, anyone saints? And which is. Anyway, I'm sure people love that, and I don't want to be dishonorable, but united was my thing, was all about unity. I saw. You know, I was born in Oakland. Oakland's a very diverse city. I grew up in la. LA is a very diverse city. But I did notice in the church space, it wasn't really diverse. You know, you had. You had black churches, you had white churches. You didn't really have. You have it now. But I didn't see a lot of that. So I wanted diversity, not just in Ethnicity. But in, you know, in socioeconomic posture, I wanted people with diverse thought. I just wanted, I just felt like God's kingdom is this big, beautiful, diverse kingdom or else I couldn't serve a God who wasn't diverse. It would just. Everything had to be justice.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

That would be very short lived for me. So that's why that's where it was, you know, so Saints United Ministries and people.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Did you charge people to come to the hotel room or. No, it was just free for everybody.

[Torre Roberts]

Free for everyone except me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Exactly. Except you. Right. Who paid for the hotel room? And then how long do you speak? How long do you speak for?

[Torre Roberts]

So that was. Yeah, the speech was probably about half an hour. At 40 minutes I had someone sing a song, you know, and then I, you know, who wants to join? Who wants to be a part of this? And a few people join. One of my best friend for now, 30 plus years, he was like the first person, you know, Kenny is my friend. He's biracial, he's black and Mexican. And he was like, you know, I'll go with it. He's been with me until this day.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really. Oh, wow.

[Torre Roberts]

So that's. It started like that and I meet at hotel rooms and then for a long time, honestly it didn't grow, you know, it stayed, you know, small for two years. And then I felt, you talk, talk about intuition. I felt like I was supposed to move it, it was in Culver City to North Hollywood. Didn't know why. Why do I go to North Hollywood? And most of the people, the whopping, you know, few dozen people who were coming, all lived, you know, south of the 10 Freeway. And I said, hey guys, you know, I feel divinely inspired to uproot here and plant North Hollywood. And that didn't go over very well, you know, because the mentality Valley, that's just, it's like you're in another state.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

So I did it and when I planted that church in North Hollywood, it exploded. It just by changing location where you are is so important. And it exploded and took off and became what it is today.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, so how did you get. So I went from having 80 or 25 or whatever people. What was it? How did you. With the flyers too. They just started to come more.

[Torre Roberts]

And this was interesting because you're in. My background was business, you know, and marketing. So I created this nice flyer. I did all the work. I did, you know, data, you know, data on the community. I was doing data back before people were thinking about data. This 2004, you know, and who's here, what's their age? What are they like? And based on that, I put together this awesome flyer into this major mass thing, and nobody showed up. I don't think one person from that outreach. From that outreach effort showed up. And. And I felt like, how did I fail in this? And I really felt, God, say, this is not going to happen by human effort. This is not going to happen because you're so smart and you've got this background in business and market. That's all cute. But I need you to know that what I'm going to do, I'm going to do. And so I stopped doing that, and people just started walking in off the street and just, you know, I just set up shop, did my thing, and people started coming.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you stopped all the marketing, you stopped all the flyers, and they just started to walk, like, walking the door.

[Torre Roberts]

They literally started walking the door. And here's a funny story. So. So even though I was different, I was fresh and I was. You know, I was. I had a different approach to faith than what congregation looked like. It was very. It was not. I thought it wasn't conservative, you know, now I realize it actually was more conservative than I thought it was. But conservative for me would be, you know, you're in there, your shirt and your tie or whatever. I didn't have a shirt and a tie, but I did have my Dockers and my braided belt and a blazer. And so this young guy comes in there, and this guy's got on jeans and he's got on a T shirt. This 2004. He's got Chuck Taylor's on jeans and a T shirt. And he comes in, he sits in the back, and I'm like, this is a peculiar sight in a house of worship.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, right, right.

[Torre Roberts]

He's got on jeans. So he. He leaves out, and he comes back, and he brings about four people with him. And guess what? They're all in jeans, T shirts, Chucks, you know, male and female. And. And I'm like, this is strange. So after service, he walks up to me and he's like. And he talks real fast. Guy's name is Brian Kennedy. If you Google him, he's a major music producer. Rihanna, Chris.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What's his name?

[Torre Roberts]

Brian Kennedy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Brian Kennedy. Okay, I'll look it up after. Yep.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, anyway, so. So. But he wasn't at the time. And he comes in, and then he comes up to me after service. He talks real fast. He slowed it down now, but Master, I have Somebody great, master. I really touched me, you know, and, you know, I play keyboards and, you know, if you ever need somebody in music. And I'm just looking like, okay, so, you know when someone's talking fast, you start talking fast with them. And. And so he leaves. Then he comes back with a row full of young people. And they're all young, they're talented, they're beautiful, they're gifted. And I'm like, okay, something is happening here. And then that's kind of when the pivot changed. Because as I got to know them, many of them were talented, gifted and beautiful. But they were in bad situations. And even professionally, Brian was. I want to say this carefully, because he was working for a producer who. They were music producers. They were very hot at the time. I mean, if I named some of the songs that they did, you would know them. But the deal was. The deal that they were putting before him was pretty oppressive. He was better than that deal. And so he. I took him the Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. Let me know if I'm going too long. Just like, kick me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, I think this is interesting.

[Torre Roberts]

Okay. So I take him.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I like these, like, backstories because it makes people. I. It makes. I. I think it kind of like paints the proper picture, like, versus little snippets. And people don't understand.

[Torre Roberts]

This is true.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So I take my Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles, and I'm like, let me see the deal. And he showed me a deal. And I said, brian, it's not worth you. And I told him my reasoning why. And he had to make a decision. Now, for some, it looked like the deal of a lifetime. You get to work with these producers, they're gonna let you produce. They've got all these hits. I'm like, brian, you can do something on your own and avoid. And this Is before the 360 deals, all this kind of stuff that the labels are doing now, this is before that. And so he did. He took my advice, he got out of that situation. And then he. Rihanna, Disturbia, he produced that, you know, Chris Brown forever. He produced that. His career takes off. He was riding for Faith Hill, the Rascal Flats. I mean, Natasha, Betty, I mean, just name it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Wow.

[Torre Roberts]

And he's just blowing up. So there were a lot of stories like that. And because these people had influence, they were bringing people to the church, and the church took off in. The fastest growing demographic at that time was young Hollywood. But the reason why I bring it up, particularly as it relates to them being in bad situations. Because I'm thinking about this other girl named Natasha, and Natasha's gorgeous. I mean, just a beautiful girl, but her self esteem was like in the tank. And I'm like, Natasha, you're. You're gorgeous, you're bright, you know, and so I got like, I got a little pissed at the industry, to be honest with you, because I'm like, here are the young people that are. They're moving from all around the world to come here because they're talented and they were just abusers in the space, you know, and they were oppressing them and, you know, and making them feel less than who they are. And so my message began to be shaped by who was coming, who was coming. And so God gave me language for young Hollywood and I started talking to them and it would be their lifeblood. I talked about identity. I talked about, you know, value, worth, affirmation, you know, purpose. And it just exploded. And so that's kind of the, you know, that's really how it happened.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What happens to Natasha?

[Torre Roberts]

Natasha's doing great. Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. What you're doing now.

[Torre Roberts]

She's an actor. She's an actor. She's doing great.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Is she very successful? I know who she is.

[Torre Roberts]

I guess I wouldn't call her very successful. But you know what? She's successfully, emotionally.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As a human being.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. And she is doing. I mean, she's doing well, but there are people in our church that are much more public than her. You know, a lot of people. You know, I did. There was a show. We. We sold a television show to ABC in 2019 based on my life. It was a sitcom. The studio, ABC studio, bought it and.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Sitcom.

[Torre Roberts]

Sitcom.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's hilarious.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I love it. Sitcom based on me and Sarah and. And. But the guy who brought the idea to me, his name is Leslie Odom Jr. He's, you know, Emmy. Grammy. Emmy, though. Tony Emmy. And he's got some stuff I can't remember.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I think he's. He's one of the guys on your book, right? Yeah. Tony and Grammy award winning actor and singer.

[Torre Roberts]

He is. I had no idea he was sitting in my church. You know, he was there before, you know, anything, you know, and now he's, you know, doing movies and traveling. He was in. God, why is the. The Broadway. Hamilton. Yeah, he did that. You know, he did Hamilton. He went all over. He's a musician.

[Jennifer Cohen]

He just hosted Hamilton as what, an actor or. Amazing.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, really?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, he's. But I had no idea. He's sitting in my church the whole time while he's a quote unquote, nobody and being affirmed and you know, and who he is. And so, you know, I'm not taking credit for his career.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, of course not. But you're saying.

[Torre Roberts]

And so he comes to me and he's the one that opened the door to do this show that, you know, we did successfully sell the pilot to abc and it was a put pilot. So, you know, the network spent I can't tell you how much, but a lot of money to do this pilot. And we were literally, our bags were packed in April of 2019 to go to the upfronts to sell this show.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

At the very last minute, although the studio bought it and produced it, network said we're not taking it to serious.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Why?

[Torre Roberts]

I don't know. We were all devastated. It was me, Leslie. Kerry Washington was an executive producer on it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

She was attached to it.

[Torre Roberts]

She's got a deal at the studio at abc.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I know.

[Torre Roberts]

And yeah, she was attached to it. At the very last minute, network said, no, we're not going to do it. It was. I mean, if you Google it now, all the trades were like, this is going. This is happening. This is a show to look for and all this sort of stuff. But it was all God's design. One Covid was not knocking on the door. None of us knew it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

So God only knows if we would have got stuck in development hell or whatever. It just. You just never know everything for a reason.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But was it. Was it already kind of canceled before it was started? Before COVID started in 2019.

[Torre Roberts]

Correct.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So even before it was already, like, it was already. You have no idea why they decided they. They thought they were spending that kind of money and having her attached.

[Torre Roberts]

They didn't think that it tested. Well, I have. You know, I don't. Testing is tricky because you got to know your audience to test. You can't just put a show out there. You know, it's almost like my church is very unique. My church may not do well, honestly, in the Bible Belt, you know, because it's just. I'm just different. I'm built differently. My language is different. So if you're going into the Bible Belt to. And I'm not saying that's what.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's what they did, but that's what they did, though.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. Testing is like, it's. No, it's. You gotta. Anyway, listen.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But why don't you take it. Not like career strategy advice for me right now, but I should give it to you after. But why don't you take it somewhere else like Amazon, Netflix, do it yourself, Pay for it yourself and then sell.

[Torre Roberts]

It like we talked about it, and we're always open to it. I think some of the networks that we were involved with, there was a little bit of, you know, executives go from company to company.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

And so sometimes when. So the person who bought our show at abc, by the time the show was. It was time for network to make the decision, she was gone. She was over at another company. So sometimes that. That could have killed the deal, to be honest with you. They leave and, you know, everything's nice and nice on paper, but, you know, I didn't buy that show. I'm not as invested in it, but.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, that happens all the time, actually.

[Torre Roberts]

But.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But where did she go? Can she take the show with her there if they don't want to do it?

[Torre Roberts]

Well, ABC owned, they own the rights.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Can they? Can they. Can you get released from those rights and then she can buy it?

[Torre Roberts]

I'm sure. I don't know where she is now. She might still be where she went, but I'm not sure. But. And there, There are things. But, you know, another thing, honestly, is the show started to become less about what we did originally. So, you know, when the network gets involved, they have ultimate creative control. And so it kind of. They. They kind of soften some of the edges and, you know, but here's the thing, and I talk about it in balance, like, I. I needed that loss because I only knew. Jenna only. Can I call you Jen? Is Jean okay?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Of course.

[Torre Roberts]

Okay. I only knew how to win. I had, you know, the church did amazing, you know, you know, two book deals, you know, television show. I, I'd done some other work, some smaller things.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Did you get the two book deals because of your popularity with the church?

[Torre Roberts]

I think so.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I think. I think so.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And this, by the way, the two other books, though, did you know TD and Sarah yet? This was not even yet. This is all before all of this.

[Torre Roberts]

All of this is before.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. This is what I find. I didn't know this. Okay, go on.

[Torre Roberts]

I only knew how to win. You know, I'm being, you know, interviewed, going to places, I'm talking to people. The route named me the top 100 influencers in the space. I mean, it was just like, you know, it was happening. Things were going really good, so that was going on. I knew how to win, but I didn't know how to lose. And I realized that sometimes for the sake of development, it's better to lose than to win. Because during that time before, you know, so there was a bit. There was a transaction, a financial transaction that I was really excited about, an acquisition, and that deal fell apart. I found out that, you know, people say it's too good to be true. In this case, it was. And I lost a lot of money, earnest upfront money, and then, you know, to, quite frankly, my legal fees, to make them go away and cry uncle. So I was out of a lot of money. The opportunity was gone. A lot of money, this deal, you know, which is, again, my bags are packed. I'm going to New York, baby. We're getting ready to upfront. We're saying, you know, you know, literally the week we were leaving, network says no. The community in Denver that, you know, I, I took over now, that was my father in law's church, and that was 2018. I took that over because the former leader had some missteps and they were out of a leader. So I, I stepped in, trying to be a good son in law.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, how have you been married to Sarah for.

[Torre Roberts]

It'll be eight years this year.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Eight years. Okay. Yeah, but the show was in 2009.

[Torre Roberts]

Shows in 2019. Okay, yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. So you only lost that show like a year two years ago.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, yeah. Oh, fresh.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Torre Roberts]

But. But I needed to. I need it. So the Denver organization not going the way I planned. You know, the acquisition falling apart cost me a lot of money, and the deal goes away. The show that I just knew was it, you know, goes away. That was a lot of loss in one period of time. And I started struggling, like, man, do I still have it? You know, am I still that guy? You know, and. But I needed to. I needed to know that there's a difference between being. There's a difference between losing and being a loser. And it taught me that. And I just. I just think that there's more value, honestly, sometimes in losing than winning. And I know that that's not a sexy thing to say, but it's true. Like, I. To get up again, to trust again, to believe again, you know, I think that you should never waste a perfectly good failure. You know, people look at failure and they're like, man, I'll never try again. You know, you know, I'm going to go a different route. I'm never going to take a risk again. And that's a waste of a failure. I think if you do an autopsy on failure and you get in there and you start moving the spleens around different things, you'll see things. There's a treasure there that will set you up for the next thing that you're trying to do. So I needed that loss to be honest with you. And, and, and I've won in other ways since then and I'm going to win again. And the, the main thing is I'm never going to stop taking risks because, you know, when you start talking about scaling, I know this is a, you know, kind of a business podcast as well. And scaling, obviously we all want to scale. You can never scale if you don't stretch, if you put yourself out there.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Absolutely true.

[Torre Roberts]

So anyway, it was tough, but I'm glad it happened, actually.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's hard that it's hard that it happened. And you could say now I'm glad it happened because you got this and that. I'm all about finding sustainable ways to optimize performance, the kind of work that actually moves the needle and how you feel and function. And that's why I really need to tell you about Prolon's five day program. Most of us are chasing quick fixes that never get to the root of the problem. And the result is sluggish energy, brain fog and bodies running below its full capacity. But Prolon changes that by triggering your body's natural repair and renewal process at the cellular level. It's not a cleanse or crash diet. Prolon is the only patented fasting mimicking diet developed at USC's Longevity Institute. It's a plant based program with soups and snacks and drinks that nourish your body while keeping you in a fasting state. The benefits are backed by science, deep cellular rejuvenation, fat focused weight loss, no injections and better metabolic health and energy. Plus improved skin and even reduced biological age. And here's my favorite part. It's a complete reset in just five days. No willpower battles, no extreme restrictions, just a structured plan to let your body do what it's designed to do, repair, renew and optimize. And right now Prolon is offering 30% off site wide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their five day program. Go to prolonlife.com Jennifer Cohen and use Jennifer Cohen to claim your discount and bonus. That's prolonlife.com Jennifer Cohen and use code Jennifer Cohen. What I'd like to ask you more about is you're talking about resilience and getting, falling and then getting back up again. So when this happens to people, do you have like, do you kind of give people who like follow you what Would you say the first couple steps are for. For doing that, for kind of getting yourself back up and to. And to not being. Not quitting? Because actually, what you said, I say a lot is like, you can. Being a loser and losing are very, very different.

[Torre Roberts]

Very different.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What actually makes you a winner is getting right back up again and keep on, you know, moving forward. So what would you say? How. How would you tell people in your congregation.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That they can do that and get out of their own way to succeed first?

[Torre Roberts]

The first thing I do is give them permission to say ouch. Like, you know, I'm not that guy that says, man up, dog. You know? You know, that's not me at all. It hurt. You know, I was. Man, I was battling, like, some dark moments. Like, hey, have I lost my thing? Is my. Is my season pass? You know, it was. It was a tough time, and I had to be honest with myself that I had been bruised. Because if you don't do that, you're going to walk around bruised, you're going to walk around, perhaps even bitter. You're going to walk around with no faith. You know, you just kind of. You. You. If you don't acknowledge the fact that it hurt, there's no possibility to get that wound healed, and you're going to be a victim forever until you say ouch. So the first thing that I would do is say, hey, acknowledge the fact that it hurt. You're disappointed. You're mad at life, you're mad at God, you're mad at whoever's on the other side of it. Just get it out. It's okay to not be okay. That'd be the first step. Then assess it, you know. Okay, so is there a lesson in here? I think with every loss, there's a lesson. So what. What am I. What am I supposed to learn? Like. And really, you know, you hear that all the time. You know, there's loss, but. But no, really do it like there's something. I know it hurt, and maybe it hurts to look at it. So that's why you got to grieve for a minute. That's fine. Grieving is fine. It's part of the process. But then really get in there with an open mind. Get ego out of the way. You know, stop pointing fingers. Don't blame anybody. What can I learn from this mistake? Study it. Do an autopsy on that. That. That. That loss, that failure, whatever. Look at it and you're gonna find something in it. There's an insight there. There's something in that thing. See it's not all dead. You know, there's something alive in there.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So when you did, when. When that show kind of took a nosedive and the, and the Denver thing kind of happened and you lost money, what. When you didn't think, you didn't know what was going to be the next opportunity. What has happened to you since then? That's been a really good opportunity that you never even saw happen.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh goodness.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That came from those fail. Like if those things happened, you wouldn't have been able to do xyz. What was that?

[Torre Roberts]

First of all, there's a shift in my mind a lot of times. So here's the thing. How many people that aren't fundamentally in the entertainment industry sell a television show to one of the major, one of the biggest studios, It's Disney, abc, first of all, who does that? So I was over here crying and licking my wounds about it not going to series and we sold a show to abc. If I didn't do anything else in life. Take the, you know, 6 billion people on the planet, how many of them have sold a show about their life, mind you, to abc Studios like that can't be taken away from.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Very few, Very few.

[Torre Roberts]

So I.

[Jennifer Cohen]

With Kerry Washington attached.

[Torre Roberts]

With Kerry Washington. Freaking Kerry Washington.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

You know who now we're friends and family. You know, I mean, it's like, how does that even happen? So, so it shifted my perspective. Ture you look at this wrong. Yeah, it didn't go there. But dude, you played in the Game Boy, you know, you didn't go to USC cinema.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You didn't.

[Torre Roberts]

You don't know anything about that. Well, you know, a little bit, but you don't. That's not your space. You don't sell shows. You're not a showrunner. What are you talking about?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right, right.

[Torre Roberts]

So it shifted my perspective and it created a resilience in me. And now I'm a beast. And I'm a beast not because I have all these accolades and I've got things that I'm proud of and I'll share that with you. But. But not because of that. I'm a beast because no matter what comes my way, I don. Give a flip. I'm gonna over flip. Come on, somebody. I'm gonna overcome it, you know, I'm gonna figure out, I'm gonna find the treasure in that trial.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You know, Tell me the treasure. What have you found?

[Torre Roberts]

Well, so one perspective. I. There. There's. There's a powerful thing about knowing that no matter whatever comes your way, you're Gonna survive it. That, first of all, that's gold in and of itself. Like, this, this, this. I can't lose, you know, or even if I lose, I. I'm never a loser. So that was big. But then this book, like, honestly, like, this book balance that I wrote, that's a whole nother subject. It's great. But the process, like, I almost. I tell people this. I'm very, very vulnerable with you. I tell people this. I almost died writing this book. And you're like, what do you mean? My mom heard me say that once, you know, like, publicly. And she called me, man.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What do you mean?

[Torre Roberts]

I'm a dying, like, mom, chill out. Hold on. But what I mean by it is that this book was supposed to come out in October of 2020, and, you know, it doesn't come out to, you know, when it comes out. We all know when it comes out, right? And. And it kept getting pushed back. I pushed it back several times. I got halfway through writing it, and I stopped and started over. I'm not sure if you. I think you've written a book or.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Whatever, but, like, I've written a few books. Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So, you know, like, halfway, you're like.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Praise God, I just finished my book. My new book is coming out in December. First of all, I find the process to be so hard. People don't understand. It's the most exhausting, stressful experience. It seems, like, very nice and la de da terrible.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, it's the hardest thing.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So I found it hard. I mean, and I.

[Torre Roberts]

And I do, too. This was extra hard. This was like. So I get halfway through it, and then, you know, my agent reads it and she's like, torre, this is not your best. And she was right. And she's major. I mean, Jan Miller, she does everybody.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So. So she does. So you gotta, like, if Jan tells you that this is not good enough, good enough. You got it. So I start over from scratch. Now just imagine getting halfway through a book with the publisher, deadline looming and starting from scratch, and you're pushing it back. So. But I did it. And. But during the process, man, I had some dark moments where I felt like, man, you're not good enough again. That. That voice. I call it night. You know where that voice comes in? You're not good enough. You don't have it. What are you doing? You're a loser. You are. I mean, loud. And it's like. And I remember this moment. I write.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm only laughing because it's like, very. I totally understand What? I know what you're talking about.

[Torre Roberts]

It's the worst. So I'm in my hotel room. I always take, you know, take, you know, several weeks away to write, and I'm in my hotel room and I have this onslaught of thoughts that, you're a loser. You can't do this. Look at you. You're an embarrassment. You're ashamed. You got this deal and you can't deliver. And it was just. And, you know, I don't think it's uncommon to have to overcome negative thoughts. But this was different. This was like I was being oppressed by these thoughts. And I'm by myself and I'm in this hotel room and I'm panicking. I can't sleep. It's going crazy. And there was a moment that. Where I realized if I didn't fight back, whatever this onslaught was would have wiped me out. I mean, like, if I would have given into that. I understand how people, you know, because you always say, you know, I never kill myself. Let me tell you something that gave me just a little bit of a taste of what sustained negative thought thinking will do if you don't fight back.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

And I knew that if I didn't fight these thoughts, my life was getting ready to change. Not for the better, forever. And so something in me just said, hell, no. You know, And I. It was just a fortitude. Like, it just. I just said no. And. And out of that moment, man, my creativity opened up. That's how the character Night even appears in the book, because I had to fight off Night to write this thing. And so all of that, overcoming these setbacks, these losses, developed something in me that I think is going to help a lot of people, and I'm very proud of it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. I mean. Okay, let's talk about your book for a sec. It's been like five hours, but it's all good. But, you know, because it's called balance. So how would you define. What's your definition of balance? Because you've had to figure it out through this whole process, right?

[Torre Roberts]

I've had to.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And like you said, the process of even writing the book, it's been. Was very hard because you're doing a lot of other things also on top of it. You must. It's exhausting. So in all of this, how do you define balance?

[Torre Roberts]

So I used to define balance the way everybody else does. How do I. I've got all these responsibilities. How do I effectively manage these responsibilities and divide myself up so that I can successfully be successful in all these Things I'm responsible for. I used to feel that way. I realized that's not what balance is. First of all, it's impossible. I can't go. I can't give Sarah 10% of me and my kids another 10% and my business another percent and the church and investors. I can't do that. So for me, balance is not dividing yourself up in response to things that you're responsible for. It's becoming all of yourself, becoming your whole self and then giving your best, best self to things in sequence. And so I think that balance is really about wholeness. I don't think it's a discipline. We've enough books about work, like work, life, balance, they're effective, but. But that's not what. Where it's at. Because, listen, I've. I tried it. I tried it, Jen. I tried. Okay? On Friday, I'm going to take my son Isaiah out. You know, Thursday is going to be date night. I'm going to spend time with my little girl on this day. And you know what I did because I wasn't balanced. I gave them a crappy version of me. So I did spend the time, you know, I can check off the time. But what did I give them? I didn't give them my best. I gave them a formula. It's not a formula. Balance is about being balanced. It's, it's, it's a journey to becoming your best self through disciplines and steps that I talk about so that you can do all things well. It. You can't. You can do all things well. You just can't do all things well at the same time.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. It's not about, like, well, okay, I'm going to spend 50% of my time at work, and the other 50% I'm going to do at home. It's. I've never heard anyone describe it like that, but I think that is such a much more of a. Actually a more realistic way of looking at it. Right. Because I don't think anyone truthfully, like, you can't balance things like a, like a SEESAW, you know, 20% goes to my kids, 10% goes to my husband. So that's a really good, That's a very good explanation. What. And I. You talk about this in the book. How do you give us some indications of when someone is out of balance?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, yeah, there's a few, there's several. That can be a ton. For me, stagnation is a sign that I'm imbalanced. I think that when we are balanced, when we're aligned, when we are working the disciplines and we're in our flow, there's no such thing as stagnation. You know, you're innovative, you're creative. You know, we're creative beings. We're supposed to always have something to give. Stagnation is a sign. I think that weariness is a sign. And that's the difference between being tired and weary. Weary. I describe weariness as the, the gradual gravitational pull down to the tarmac of disaster. You know, like, just know the disaster is on its way. If you respond to your weariness, jealousy and envy, to be honest with you, you know, when you're balanced, you have such an affirmation and personal affirmation, and you're so connected with victory and winning that anytime you see success, you feel connected to it. You're not jealous of it. If you see somebody winning, you're like, yeah, that's what we do, baby. You give a high five. And, and, and so jealousy and envy is part of it. Declining thought life, you know, if, if all of a sudden you, you always go to the lowest possible interpretation of a comment, of a conversation of someone's action. You don't know why they did that, you know, but, but. Well, what did you mean when you said that, you know, your thought life declines, so there's several, and, and you just have to perceive them and not tolerate them. Listen, when I'm off, I gotta go get balance because I'm not gonna be a great husband, not going to be a great, great parent, not going to be a great leader. You know, I'm not going to be a, A strategic business person. And so I just, I won't tolerate it. So I'm looking for signs that, that show me you're out of balance. You need to do something about it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So how do people get balanced? Like, what's the first steps like? It's, let's say I say, okay, I'm static. You could be stagnating at your career. You could be stagnant because you're just not like, feeling productive. Yeah, the weariness is an interesting one because it's like you feel your. You can. It's kind of like what you're. I think that you're saying it's like you feel yourself declining a little bit. Right. Like you're not. Like, you're not like yourself.

[Torre Roberts]

Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So give us some. How do you become. How do you start the process of being balanced?

[Torre Roberts]

Love it. The first step is no step at all, actually. The first step is to stop. That's why people. It's the funniest thing in the world. And people are like, yeah, I just try to get balance in my life, but what are they doing? They're moving. You know, I need balance. But, you know, but like, you telling me you need balance while you got a phone in your hand, you know, you're tweeting over here, you're texting, you're driving to your next meeting, dude, of course you don't have balance. So the first step is to stop. And I've learned that, first of all, it takes. People think it takes more faith to start than stop. I disagree. I think it takes more faith to actually stop, to come to a halt than it does to go forward. You know, I. You know, I think, you know, there's this. This biblical concept called Sabbath, you know, that is pretty. I think it's pretty uniform.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Jewish.

[Torre Roberts]

Jewish. You know? Exactly. Sabbath.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You're saying it like, I don't know, right?

[Torre Roberts]

I'm teaching you right here.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Exactly. I was on the COVID of the Jewish Journal.

[Torre Roberts]

Were you?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, I was. No way.

[Torre Roberts]

Yes, I was in the Jewish Journal years ago.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, you were?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I used to be on the board.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Grab one on the bottom of this note in that drawer right there. Tell me. I want to know.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I used to be on the board of an organization called the American Friends of Magen David. It's the ambulance service in Israel.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really? Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So I sat on the board for that, the LA chapter. And. And so, you know, so I'm very. I love Israel. I love Jewish people. I love everybody.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, I like to hear that because that's really. So this was. This was like a couple months ago.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, come on.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And can I tell you something? What's amazing about this for those of. Okay, I'm only. I'm only showing this to him because this is. People laugh and mock, but I will say that got so much more traction than Forbes, than.

[Torre Roberts]

Wow.

[Jennifer Cohen]

All these other big biggies, because, I don't know, I think that, like, there is something to be said about, like, being on the COVID of, like, the COVID That's like a big deal.

[Torre Roberts]

Major. The Jewish Journal. You kidding me, right? Yeah, that's. That's heavy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's right. If Jerry. It's good enough for Jerry Seinfeld, right? So thank you, David Suissa, who's the editor in chief.

[Torre Roberts]

I love it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

But it's like. So the first step is to stop. And I love that. That word Sabbath, because that Hebrew word doesn't Mean to rest. Even though rest is true, it means to stop. It literally means to cease, you know, and no one wants to do that. No one. It's almost like our world is so noisy right now. Noisy is normal.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, it's also all about distraction. Distraction. Right. If you stop and you don't have a distraction, then you really have to start focusing on what's the noise. Right. Which is a lot of times people do not want to have that type of like stillness and quiet. Yes. Because then they have to look inward and be like, oh my God, this isn't good. And this isn't good. And that's wrong and right. Whatever.

[Torre Roberts]

Yep.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So if you keep yourself busy or distracted, then it's much easier in like short term gratification. Oh, yeah, right.

[Torre Roberts]

I know all about that. I, I, I went through a divorce in 2012, and it was my first time being alone, you know, in 17 years.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And were you married for 17?

[Torre Roberts]

I was married for seven. I got married pretty young. I was married for 17 years. And she's a wonderful person, just not for me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right, right, right. And I got it.

[Torre Roberts]

And you know, and so, so I, I, I was single now. Right. And I don't know anything about, I'm single, I'm a pastor. You know, I'm like, are you allowed to date?

[Jennifer Cohen]

I guess technically you are. Right? You were. Obviously.

[Torre Roberts]

Again, like, we started this.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm a grown ass man, but I know it's priest. I can't go. I got it. Okay, okay. But a reverend can go out up with people?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I think so. I think it's, I mean, again, it depends on your denomination, all that kind of stuff. It varies, but, but what I needed to do after 17 years of marriage is chill. Like, chill out. You don't even know what date. What are you doing, dude? You're 40 years. What are you talking about? You're 30, 39. 40 years old.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

Like, what are you trying to do here? And so, you know, I told myself that I was gonna like, you know, not date or whatever, and somebody came along and we start, start starting a date.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How did you guys meet then?

[Torre Roberts]

On Tinder.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Are you guys allowed, Are you allowed to be on Tinder?

[Torre Roberts]

That's hilarious. I'm sure there's some passes on Tinder.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Were you on Tinder?

[Torre Roberts]

I wasn't on Tinder.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Bumblebee? No match.

[Torre Roberts]

No, no, no, no. I didn't know because, well, then I would have had to acknowledge that I was actually looking. No, I would even, Let me tell you, I, I would not do that because I love Christian, but Christianism, great people sometimes. No, give me. Give me somebody, right? No, I'm not doing it Christian. But I. So I started. I. I had. We had a professional relationship, and she.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, how did you meet her? Was she. Was she a pastor then?

[Torre Roberts]

No, no, not at all. She.

[Jennifer Cohen]

A fashion.

[Torre Roberts]

She was in fitness. She was in fitness.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And she was in fitness. Like, what was she doing in fitness? I didn't know her. What was she doing?

[Torre Roberts]

I'm laughing towards your name, so you might know her. But. But I don't know. I'm not at Sarah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, no, no.

[Torre Roberts]

We're talking about when you need to be alone.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, so you're, like, having to be alone and. And then someone set you up with this girl?

[Torre Roberts]

Well, she. We had a. We had a professional relationship.

[Jennifer Cohen]

She a trainer?

[Torre Roberts]

Yes. You're so good.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Torre Roberts]

I'm like, I'm gonna do well.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Who is. Yeah, right.

[Torre Roberts]

She is my trainer.

[Jennifer Cohen]

We're at a gym or like, at a private gym.

[Torre Roberts]

She would come. She'd come train me at my place. So. And then she just. She steps to me one day. Like, she. And it was all funny. Let me tell you what's funny about it. Like, she.

[Jennifer Cohen]

She.

[Torre Roberts]

She was such a Mac, and she's a great person, but she was such a Mac because, you know, we're having lunch one day, and it was just like, you know, we were just having lunch. You know, you're cool, I'm cool. You know, you're training me. And then she, like, lunches over, and she's like, so when are we going to stop playing this game? And I'm, like, playing a game. Like, I'm not playing a game. Like, we're just. She's like, come on, you know, you're interested in me, you know? And I'm like, okay. You know, because I was so. I was so vulnerable and granted, she's gorgeous and.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, you're not hiring a guy trainer. You're hiring a hot girl, are you not?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. There you go. Okay, there it is, right there.

[Torre Roberts]

But that wasn't what. She was really good at what she did, you know, I'm sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Great. Okay. So then you guys started to date, then after she confronted you, and we.

[Torre Roberts]

Started to date, which was so stupid. It just.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I think she's not your trainer anymore.

[Torre Roberts]

No, she's not. We. But I think the issue is I needed. I needed time to myself, but I was. I wasn't ready for a loan. I wasn't ready for what I might find right in the scary, in the silence. And. And so that it didn't go well, you know, and finally I said, look, why are we pretending this is not right? And I broke it off. And then.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How long were you dating for?

[Torre Roberts]

A few months. It was. It wasn't very. I guess three months could be considered a long time, but a few months.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Did you find a new trainer?

[Torre Roberts]

I did find a new trainer. I did. And I just. Yeah, Actually, no. I stopped training, and I started just doing what she taught me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I didn't. Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Probably safer that way.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I think so. I was too vulnerable. I was open. I'd never been, you know, by myself, alone, college.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And.

[Torre Roberts]

And I think what. What's funny is guys sometimes are blinded from the fact that people might want to have a relationship with you. I was so naive. Like, I was like. I thought that people were friends. I have one lady. Tell me, how real can we be on this podcast?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Very real. I mean, how real?

[Torre Roberts]

I had one lady tell me, and she was actually. This is bad. This is so bad.

[Jennifer Cohen]

The bad, or better? Better the bad, whatever.

[Torre Roberts]

She basically told me, hey, I can sleep with you. And. And it won't be anything. Like, I'll even come to your church, sit in the pews, and. And it won't be anything. And she was like, like. And she meant it like, I will. And I'm like, oh, it's real out here.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Like, oh, you didn't realize it?

[Torre Roberts]

No, I didn't know. I was in a bubble.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, my God. First of all, can I tell you something? It's. By the way, girls are worse than guys.

[Torre Roberts]

I learned. I freaking learned.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It was like, did you really not know this?

[Torre Roberts]

I did not know because I've been married for 17 years. And in how many of those years? 12 of those years, I was, you know, a person of faith. So I was walking this really, you know, pretty straight path, and I was faithful to my wife, all that kind of stuff. So I didn't. I didn't really. I was shielded. I was shielded. So probably being married to her was probably a blessing in disguise because it shielded me well.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But also, I would imagine if you're getting to be very popular in that space, you're on. On, like, a stage, and you would have a lot of groupie, like, girls who would go there, or guys also maybe who just had the hots for you.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, but I.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's not like you're like a dog. It's not like you're like 100, you know, obese. Right. Old man Right. You know, like.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I think, I think I was, I think I was distracted by my work and, and I had to be distracted by my work because my marriage wasn't great.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

You know, so I was really lost in focus and working in there and one thing I wasn't going to do is violate the integrity of why somebody's coming to our church. So, you know. Yeah, I could maybe feel the energy of some people there that are, you know, you know, kind of checking, but I'm like, you can feel that way all you want to. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You're not doing it? You're not going into that?

[Torre Roberts]

No, that's, that's a whole nother thing. I'm, I'm, I'm afraid of God about stuff like that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

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[Torre Roberts]

A little over a year.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, wow. And you didn't date anybody for a year?

[Torre Roberts]

No. After the trainer, there were a couple of other people that were short lived again, still battling with this, not wanting to be by myself. Yeah, lonely. Very short lived. And then I got to a place, I'm like, you know what, man, you're. If you know it's right, why are you entertaining it? And I got to this place where I said, you know what, I'm not going to date anybody until someone shows up that I believe has the capacity, the potential to be my wife, you know, because I want to be married again, you know, you know, marriage is great if you're with the right person. So I stopped and I stopped dating and I was by myself and my book was. My first book was coming out, so I had a good distraction and I get a call from one of my. One of my friends, his name is Derek, who works for TD Jakes. And he's like, hey, Terry, you know, I've got somebody in town that I want you to meet. She's got a book coming out and, and I just think you should meet her. It's. It's Bishop Jake's daughter. Now, I love my father in law. I think he is brilliant. Like, he's. He's brilliant, he's a blessed man and all that kind of stuff. But when I consider my father, When I consider my father in law and I think about his daughter, all I can do is see him with a dress on, right? And I don't want to date someone who looks like my father in law with a dress on. He's a big burly. You know what I mean? Like that's, I mean, and that's. With all due respect.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, he's like, he's a big man. I understand what you're saying.

[Torre Roberts]

So I wasn't expecting for Sarah to walk through the door. We met at the Peninsula in Beverly Hills for lunch. So I'm sitting down or for breakfast. So I'm sitting down and she walks in and I'm like, what she's got on? Like jeans. She's got ripped jeans on. She's got boots, you know, up to her, you know, and she's like. And she's bouncing around and stuff like that. And, and, and I'm like, hi.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, you're so confused.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, it was weird. And so we had a phenomenal conversation, a wonderful conversation about life. Our views were very similar about purpose and about what it means to be called now what the world needs. She wasn't a minister at all.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What was she doing?

[Torre Roberts]

She was an author. She was a blogger and an author.

[Jennifer Cohen]

For what? On what topic?

[Torre Roberts]

Her first book was called Lost and Found. So she was kind of telling her story, getting pregnant at 13 years old and having a baby at 14 while being in this high profile family. So she was inspirational, kind of a women's magnet. Or blogged it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, was she ready? Was she well known in that already or not yet?

[Torre Roberts]

She was known, but not well. Like, in my world. She wasn't known at all.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, no. But like, was her blog very popular?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, her blog was popular for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So if she Had a book deal. She must have had some popularity around.

[Torre Roberts]

Popularity. Plus, she's Bishop Jake's daughter.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. I'm gonna say. How long was. How long has he been around, by the way?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, God, 20. He's had that. That church in Dallas for 20 years. He's probably been popular for 25 years. Like, wildly popular for 20 years, for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. So she comes from the. Obviously of being his daughter then. She's, like, well known in that. In that space.

[Torre Roberts]

Exactly. That's true. Yeah. Being there. She's young, but. But yes, to your point.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. So how old is she at this point?

[Torre Roberts]

She's 25.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

And so we meet, you know, we have a great conversation. There was definitely chemistry, but not romantic chemistry. I wasn't looking at like that because, remember, my mentality is I'm not touching anybody unless they have wife potential. And to be honest, she's younger than me. And so when I had. And I did have a little list, to be honest with you about what I wanted to look like. She wasn't in the age bracket, to be honest with you. So there were just things she. Now she's 30. She'll be 34 in July.

[Jennifer Cohen]

34? Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

We got a 15 and a half year age difference. So she. So we have a great talk, great breakfast. I told her, I said, you know what? I want you to come and speak at our church. I think my people will love you because you're not churchy. You know, you got on jeans like, you know my people. You're young. You kind of get it. You know, your messaging is good. I want you to come and speak at my church on Mother's Day, Unbeknownst to me that she didn't speak. She wasn't a speaker. She didn't. She had never. She had done some talks, but she had never done, like, a church. Church message at all, ever. I had no idea. And so here's the crazy thing about that. I didn't see her that way. Then I saw her. I felt like I met her and I felt like. I felt like I needed to protect her because I knew what it was like in the church world to be kind of like me in that you're not super religious and you're popular and you have this charisma and you draw people. And sometimes the church world gets uptight, you know, and you're in Hollywood and they just assume. Assume that. That you are. Whatever they think about us in Hollywood, it's just. It gets weird. And I felt like, man, this girl, she's gonna need some protection. And I didn't know, like, Bishop Jakes. I knew who he was, but I didn't follow him, to be honest with you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

Because he's a. He's brilliant. And I was missing out by not following him. But his style is a little different from my. He's more, you know, big. Yes. He's gonna. And.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And it's dominating.

[Torre Roberts]

Yes. And. And so I didn't. I knew who he was. I respect him. How can you not? He's in the faith world. He's massive. So with Sarah, I just. I didn't. I didn't. It was almost like my eyes were veiled from seeing her in that way. And I did feel like, you're probably going to need some mentorship because I didn't even think, who am I? You know, your dad's Bishop Jakes. But I knew Bishop Jakes was. He's in a different. It's a different type of thing that he does. He's more in the church world. And I saw Sarah as having more of a pop culture type of grace, similar to mine.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you saw that in her?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And she didn't see that?

[Torre Roberts]

No.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And so you're the one who brought her into this space.

[Torre Roberts]

Absolutely. So. So fast forward. You know, we exchanged numbers. She tweeted out. She kind of flirted with me in a tweet. She tweeted out, met with Terry Roberts. He's brilliant. I'm like, careful. Don't use those words.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Torre Roberts]

And. And then I went to her father's conference in Orlando, Florida. We kind of. We were texting each other, and then she approached me and said, I'm coming to LA in two weeks.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, didn't she invite you to the conference because you weren't following the Derek guy?

[Torre Roberts]

The guy who.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, Derek invited you.

[Torre Roberts]

And so we get there, and so Sarah, we miraculously end up sitting next to each other on the last day of conference. This is really crazy. And there was a closing prayer that Bishop J said, you want to do a closing prayer? Grab the hand of the person that's next to you. So I, you know, I just. I take her hand and it was crazy. I felt like. This is going to sound weird, but we've been talking about intuition. I felt like she was my wife. I felt. I couldn't. I wouldn't be able to articulate that now. But what I felt was a familiarity just at the touch. And I'm like, what is this? So the prayer is over. She turns to me and she says, tere, I'm coming to LA in two weeks, and you were going to take me to dinner.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And I'm like, okay, okay.

[Torre Roberts]

And. And the rest was his dinner was. We shut dinner down.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But where'd you go for dinner? Where'd you take.

[Torre Roberts]

Went to. They remember the Capitol Grill used to be open right there at the Beverly center, that it's closed now. And I'm hurt because that was. My mom proposed there first date. Was there.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really? Yeah, I used to like that place too.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, it was great. So. So we went to the Capital Grill and. And we talked all night. We both. We both had been divorced and our perspective on marriage, what marriage should be, why we were in those marriages. So, you know, for the time being and what the decisions, the way we thought, what we learned, it was like talking to myself. It was crazy. Really Shut the Capitol Grill down. And. And we knew pretty quickly that we were each other's person. But as far as speaking and stuff like that, Sarah wasn't doing it. You know, her coming to one. And then she started. Then I started asking her to pray after the service, so she would do the prayer and then she started preaching there. So literally, one became. Even though her father has this major mega church, one became the platform that sprung her out into, you know, and she would tell you, this is not just me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, she would. You know, that's amazing. Okay, hold on. No, sorry. I thought I was going to sneak. Okay, sorry. Allergies. Sorry. So that was basically. So then when she first spoke, was she awkward? Was it good? Was it.

[Torre Roberts]

I think it was good. She was nervous, but she always has been a woman of substance, you know, I think that she has grown in skill in comfortability and communication. She's more knowledgeable, so she's got more to pull from. And she's a beast. If you ever listen to her. That. That woman, she's my favorite speaker. She's my favorite preacher of all times, you know, I mean, even her dad is made in love. But she's got. She's like, this is gonna sound funny. She's like a little bit of me, a little bit of her and a little bit of him and all of herself. And she is fierce. I love to hear her speak.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, she's very good. I've heard. I mean, I. When she was on the podcast, I told you. And a year ago. Yeah, I listened to a bunch of her stuff, and she's excellent.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, she's amazing.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Like, where does it come from? Like, how do you guys even put These things together over and over. And because you got to do it every week, right?

[Torre Roberts]

Every week someone asked me. It's funny, it's become so natural that I forgot that it's actually a phenomenon that you can come up with life changing, literally life changing content every single week. I think for me, it comes from a couple of things. One things that I'm learning recently. I think that in order to be a good communicator and a good minister or life coach or whatever you want to call yourself, you're changing people's lives. You have to be. You have to be growing spiritually yourself. And so, you know, you know, they're disciplines that I work every day to keep me aligned, to keep me really connected to my spirituality. One, two. You gotta love people, you know, so when I'm like, even when I talk to people or before I get up on the stage to. To speak, I'm turned around and I'm looking at the audience because I want to see him. I want to see you, want to feel you. I want to. I want to look in your eyes, you know, I want to. I love you. I have to love you in order to be effective. So I need to pause and look at you. And a lot of times it's weird. I can, you know, it's gonna sound strange, but I can kind of feel people. I can feel what they're going through and what they need.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really?

[Torre Roberts]

It's really, really. That's why I can't write my. I have points, but I can't write my sermon out word for word because I respond to who's in the room and I respond to how they respond. And so if I say something that really resonates or maybe it's. It intrigues a person, but, you know, they need more, then I'll. I'll work three or four analogies until I feel like the room got it, and I can move on.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And you'll think about them on the fly?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. 50, at least percent of my message is extemporaneous. Like, it's like right there, you know, I'll have a theme of somewhere that I want us to go. But, you know, it all depends on who's in the room. We used to do multiple services, and each service would be different, although the theme was the same because of whose energy is in the room.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And you would do one sermon every Sunday, how many people would show up?

[Torre Roberts]

So our theater supposed to hold about 800 people, but we learned how to put chairs down and get the lobby going and so max. It'll Max out about 1200. And we were doing three services a Sunday before COVID 19 hit and so.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Three, three on Sunday, like 8 o', clock, 10 o'? Clock?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, back then it was 9 o' clock because it's LA and nobody coming at 8 o'. Clock.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, exactly. I was going to say by yourself, Cricket.

[Torre Roberts]

Exactly. Good morning, everyone. All four of you. But 9am, 11am, 1pm and then we would do a midweek service.

[Jennifer Cohen]

By the way, how much is a membership?

[Torre Roberts]

There's no membership.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's free.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, so how do you guys make money as a church then? That's. It's a non profit.

[Torre Roberts]

It's a non profit.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

Through donations.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And so all donation based?

[Torre Roberts]

All donation based.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you guys can't put around like a, like a bucket to people?

[Torre Roberts]

We used to. Before COVID 19. We used to. But yeah, we passed a bucket around and yeah, there's no. You don't. We just trust that. Hey, you see the value of this, right? Not just for your life, but for what we're doing in the community. You know, practical stuff, because. Yeah, the spiritual stuff is majorly important. We totally get that. But people got practical needs. There's some people that you're never gonna. Well, I won't say, who knows, but you never may believe the way I believe. But you still need to eat, you still need, you know, you know, job support, you still need all these other things. So. And people respond to that. People want to give to organizations that are making a difference.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And so do most people give when they, when the, when the bucket, it's hard to tell.

[Torre Roberts]

So I get, you know, I get a report, I can't see who's giving what.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

It's kind of, you know, you can't.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Anyway, how do you know if it's going around?

[Torre Roberts]

Well, you have to. You don't have to. You can. If you're. You can give anonymously, but most people want the tax break.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, so does it come around with a piece of paper that says, here's. You can tell it. I've been.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, you can do that. Or now it's all automated so you can text to give and you've got a profile set up. So you literally text the number and the amount that you want to give and it goes to. To that. And so our. On our back end we have, you know, computers that, that track who gives what. So at the end of the year they get their giving statement and they can deduct those gifts from their tax returns.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, but you're, but, okay, so, but in person, when the bucket goes by, there's no, there's no technology, is there? Nothing.

[Torre Roberts]

No. There. So if, and we, I don't even know we're starting back. I don't even know if they're going to do buckets. We're probably still going to be digital and people give stocks and Bitcoin, all that kind of stuff. But.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, but then on digital, how they do it, though, if you're watching, how do they know? How do they do it?

[Torre Roberts]

So it's, it's a text. So they start off with it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's what the text. Okay.

[Torre Roberts]

So the text.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you send them a text first with a form. Okay.

[Torre Roberts]

And so that captures their data, you know, their name and address. So we can send out the mailing statement, email address. And so now every time they text, the system already knows it's them. It's them.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right, right, right.

[Torre Roberts]

So it tallies up. They're giving.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So interesting.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. It's like. And all this, none of this stuff I knew about when I started, I just said, look, I want to help people. You know, here it is. Go for it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And how much people normally give? What's like, the going rate?

[Torre Roberts]

Well, it depends on how much they make. So some people, and I think, I don't. I think in.

[Jennifer Cohen]

In person first. Let's go person versus online.

[Torre Roberts]

I, I it. So there are principles, and I'm pretty sure I think this is the same in synagogues, but there's a principle called the tithe, which is, means the tenth. And so some people who really, really are followers and believe in the church and what we're doing give a tenth of their increase. Like, I, literally every 10% of everything I make, I give to our church, you know, and that's where I start. And then beyond that, I help all kind of other places. I just.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So this is, this is where it's different. So in the, so we. When you're at a synagogue, typically you have to pay a membership.

[Torre Roberts]

Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And then also you give donations based on where you are, like, in terms of your, like, economic place in life.

[Torre Roberts]

Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And there are people. It's like the 8020 rule, you know, like, as in life, right. You have a very small percentage of people give, like, the majority of it. Yeah. But, you know, because it was done how you guys do it with the bucket. I, and I'm only saying because I remember when I was at Joel Olson, the bucket was coming by and I was like, what the hell is this?

[Torre Roberts]

What's the bucket, right?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. I thought that was only in movies.

[Torre Roberts]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I didn't realize it actually happens and people are taking out money and throwing it in the bucket.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I didn't know if it was the same, because if they're coming weekly, it's different if you just come once in a while. But what if also they're coming weekly, you're giving cash or. How much do you normally get in person?

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, it depends.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It depends from like a dollar to.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, people give a dollar, you know, 20. It depends on where they are now. And our church is a pretty young church. And so young people a lot of times have young money, you know, and so I think that we do well and, you know, stay afloat because there are a lot of young people who do so. But then you're right, it is the 80, 20 rule. There's some people that do very well, and some of them aren't even local. They'll be either overseas or another state. And they, you know, they're multimillionaires, and so their tithe is. Is significant.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, yeah, so what I think is doing digital is probably way better. I mean, you're making more money digitally. I would imag.

[Torre Roberts]

Only problem with that is that you're reaching more people. Yeah. The only problem with that is that people who are only connected digitally don't give as much. Because I don't want to. I don't want to suspect it. But yeah, if the bucket come. No bucket can come around.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. So.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And I think a lot of people, when they see the bucket, they see other people doing it and they feel guilty if they don't. It's like. It's like peer pressure. Exactly. Because I didn't know. And I'm like, oh, I guess people are beside me. They're giving. I better give my money too. You know, Like, I. Because I didn't. You don't know, you know, you want to feel inclusive.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But I was always curious about that because also when people do donation, you make. You tend to make more money because it's like the. Psychologically when people feel like, well, I'm not paying for a membership again, it's interesting. Some of the people are. Feel more. They feel more generous to be giving money because it's. It's that way versus, like a finite amount of money.

[Torre Roberts]

And then from, you know, from a business perspective, you know, you would almost want to. To be able to quantify. If we've got a thousand members and they're giving a thousand dollars, you Know, a month. Then you've got a million dollar budget. So that. That obviously would feel more safe, but it doesn't work that way. We. We have zero, zero commitment. And so it's all. And you have to trust that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You have to trust for sure. But you have a huge. I mean, congregation. You guys are raking it in. I mean, let's be honest. Not.

[Torre Roberts]

Not really. But I'll tell you when we did. Well, Covid helped us because one thing, you're a nonprofit, so literally, you're not supposed to be profitable. Isn't that interesting?

[Jennifer Cohen]

I know. So most nonprofits can make a lot of money.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, for sure. Because people are generous and they support. But you're. I'm not saying you're supposed to spend it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

All right.

[Torre Roberts]

But if you're like a nonprofit and you're just growing and growing and growing and growing, and. And there's no outgo. Outflow into the community, into the world, that's a little tricky. So. But Covid helped us in that. Because we couldn't use the facility, our overhead dropped significantly.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

Our numbers, our donations were. They were pretty flat. I think we jumped. Actually. No, we jumped 7%. No, 7% last year. The first year, we were pretty flat, but because the overhead was down, it was kind of awesome because we were able to do more.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

And went at a time when the world needed more. So instead of putting money into the building and all the. The things that go into managing the building, we were doing all kind of radical, altruistic things, which I think brought the church even to a greater place of prominence.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm just curious how many people do what you do in this kind of unconventional way? Is there other people? Do you have real competition in this way?

[Torre Roberts]

That's funny. So I understand what you mean by competition. It would be.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You know what I mean.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, I totally do. But I want to preface that with in that faith world. Even though the faith world can be more competitive than corporate America.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

And let's not even go there. But in that world, you're supposed to not be competing because everybody is a servant of God. But.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But with that being said.

[Torre Roberts]

That being said. So we're just.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So that we're clear, keeping it at 100. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

I think that there are. Thank God. I think that there are leaders who are being more open. Open, Being more authentic, being more relevant.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm sorry. There's a guy that I'm thinking of. I think he. He had like a sermon or something in Beverly Hills at the. At a Hotel. I think it was Judah.

[Torre Roberts]

Judah Smith.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Is that his name?

[Torre Roberts]

Judah? Yeah, yeah. This. Well, he was doing something that I think it wasn't. It was one of those hotels on worship. And then he's at the Saban.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Judah Smith, Is that his name?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, Judah. He's a. I.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Is he. Okay, so he's a young guy, too. Yeah, yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

Judah's about my age, maybe a couple years younger.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, okay. Are you sure it's the same guy I thought this guy was? Unless I'm just, like, so old now that even I thought he. So he was, like, the kind of considered to be, like, the rock star young guy could be Judah, and he was bringing all these entertainment people, and I was invited to go a few times. Yeah, him.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. Judah. Jason Kennedy was there. Yeah, that's Judah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes. Okay. What is he. How is he different than you?

[Torre Roberts]

First of all, I love Judah. I think Judah is an incredible human being. I love his broad perspective in bringing people together in the faith world. I think that I'm probably a little more raw than Judah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, okay.

[Torre Roberts]

I think because he is. His father was a pastor and they had a massive church in Seattle, Washington.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I didn't know that.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. And I love him. I think that he is dynamic, you know, greatly dynamic. And he has. And there are some similarities, in fact, because he does draw a lot of entertainment people.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

But I think. And I don't want to say, but I'll just say, and he's raw. I'm pretty doggone raw.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Torre Roberts]

Like, I, I, I. So I'm probably, you know, maybe. And maybe that's. That's. Maybe that's. Maybe that's why. Maybe that is not a good thing. I don't know. I think he's more. Maybe more polished where I'm a little more. I'm polished, but I also get to a place that I will get gritty to get you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

You know, if I've got to, like, you know, get down there and just tell it like it is, is. Is. Is. Is. Talk about, you know, how I was, you know, promiscuous or, you know, egocentric.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You know, nothing's really off limits, so to speak.

[Torre Roberts]

I mean, some things are, but not really. If I got to tell you, if I got to show you my scars to really connect with you, I'm going to do it, you know, and he probably is, too, in his own way. But. But I think. I think we have a lot of similarities, for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

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[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. And you do all this other. What else? How do you step. How do you divide? Not in a balance, divide your time. But what else are you got? What are you up to? You have the. You obviously have this church, you have this book. What else do you do business wise? Do you have other entities that you do or.

[Torre Roberts]

I do? We've got a multimedia company who's. Our thrust right now is. Is the music. But the. What we did in the production space through carrying everything was done through our entertainment company. So we're always looking for. Especially because we attract so many young people. We're always looking for shows and concepts that we can, we can use and promote and push. So some of the doors that. That have opened up to me are in entertainment and so we're always looking for. So that's. That's one I also have Torre Enterprises is all things book and speaking. So we, I travel and speak, you know, to leadership events, to some business events and I've got that going too. We also have the tour, the Woman evolved tour.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's also under the.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, it's a sep. That's a separate entity.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, okay. Women Evolve is a separate entity. Okay. And so are you traveling a lot now with. With speaking or Sarah speaking a lot or you guys like tag team? You guys go together?

[Torre Roberts]

It depends. I mean we, we both kind of have our separate things. There's some things that make sense for us to do together. Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What do you guys do together? And what's. Where is it like, I'm at the church. You guys are both under the same YouTube channel. Is it?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. That's actually what's crazy, that that was actually my personal YouTube channel that I built. So even like if you go to it now, it's YouTube.com forward/torreroberoberts.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's you, right?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah. And it all just dovetailed in together. But she has her own YouTube channel.

[Jennifer Cohen]

As well, and it's called Women Evolve.

[Torre Roberts]

It's called Sarah Jakes Roberts.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, okay. Not Women Evolve.

[Torre Roberts]

And Women Evolve comes through. There's. But Woman Evolve is an. Is an entity, and under that entity, which she's a CEO. I'm. I'm, you know, I was the CEO. I'm like, I can't do it all. So we hired a CEO and now we're just partners in the entity.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, wow.

[Torre Roberts]

But that has so many tentacles. You know, it's. It's touring, it's speaking, it's obviously merchandise. There's the store. It's clothing, it's podcast.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's your. Are you talking about yours or hers?

[Torre Roberts]

That's. That's hers. Some of those entities we share in. But. But that's kind of.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But you guys are also your own personalities. Right? So, like, you have your own entity, which is the speaking, the tours, books. The books.

[Torre Roberts]

I also have a leadership organization, a leadership development organization. So that's part of the speaking, but it's also separately. It's a separate entity. Separately branded. Which is. Because I'm. I'm big on. I love leadership and I just. I love talking about it. I love entrepreneurship. I love empowering people, particularly people who just grow up around information that helps them in the area of entrepreneurship. So I've got that stream as well. But we believe. We believe in multiple streams. Like, if you're sitting around waiting on. You know.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

Forget it. Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You got to make your own opportunities.

[Torre Roberts]

Absolutely.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And so this. I know you're gonna. What your answer is going to be, but I'm gonna ask anyway. Do you guys ever get competitive with each other because you guys are in the same lane?

[Torre Roberts]

Well, that's a great question. I think if we do, it is not spoken. I think that I won't call it competitive because we complement each other so well and like, because we're really trying to help people and we only win, like, helping people. To really be effective at helping people, it requires one another's support. Like, I mean, we'll be in there and there's 5,000 people in the room. We ain't got time to be competing, babe. I need you to win, you know, I need you to win this moment, you know, and we'll high five later. But. So it's not competition, but it is. I, I think I'm a better speaker, I'm a better marketer because of her, you know, I think that, I think we sharpen each other, you know, like, so right now I'm doing this and she's seeing me at my best because, you know, I wrote this book, I'm doing these interviews, you know, with, you know, great outlets like this one, you know, and so she's seeing me at the top of my game. I'm going to travel, you know, I'm going to New York and a couple due press there. So I think that it feeds. And she had her turn with, with woman evolved. She was here. So I think it feeds. It's not competition because competition is. I'm competing against you. And some might say that that's healthy, but that can become a little carnal. It can become a little egoistic.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's not in a negative way. It's more of like, healthy.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Competition.

[Torre Roberts]

Hey, you killed that. Like, wow, I'm gonna kill my next thing, right? I think it's more, it's more like that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Do you guys. And you guys help each other out or.

[Torre Roberts]

Oh, yeah, everything. We laugh about this, but it's true. When you see one of us, you see both of us. Like, literally, I can feel her in my head right now saying, you better. That's the thing. You better. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and so, I mean, she recorded some stuff yesterday and I wasn't there. But when you see one, you see both. Because we're, I mean, we're two peas in a pod, but we're so for each other. Like, that's my best friend in the whole world. Like, people talk about this concept of ball and chain. Like, who are you married to?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

Woman ain't no ball and chain, man. She's. I, I, I would, I'd spend every day with. I don't. I never get tired of her.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I never get a great place to be. Yeah, that's a great place. And then are you. Is your business. So like your business, her business. Is there any affiliation with Bishop Jake said that's just all just in my head.

[Torre Roberts]

So there's one. So, so here's what happened. So I had one church and that was. I built that you know, it's, it's, it's been what it's been for years. It was a mega quote, unquote megachurch when I met Sarah. In fact, that's why Derek wanted to introduce Sarah to me through the book. Because here is this mega church in la. Now, of course, Bishop is, would be a giga. This would be like a mega, mega church.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Did she promote her book in his church too, by the way?

[Torre Roberts]

I'm sure, yeah, for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

And that was, yeah, he did the forward and everything on her first book, but it was established, so. So then Sarah and I get married, you know, and now Sarah is a part of my church, you know, so she's, it's me and her now, you know, so now instead of one, it's two.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

And we were just rocking that out and that was great. But the church in Denver, which is one of my father in law's churches, the pastor there had a moral failure and they had to ask him to leave the church. So now the church is headless. It has no, no overseer. You know, Bishop is the big dog, but no person on the ground.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Torre Roberts]

To run that church. So being a good son in law, I said, you know what, you know, we can do it. I'm not going to let you know anything that you're doing fall to the ground. So I'm going to do both. Not going to give up la. I'll move to Denver because it's going to need oversight. Got to build team leadership, you know, lick the wounds, you know, heal things up. So I took over that church. Now, it was going to be a little odd to say I'm the pastor of one church or one LA, and the pastor of Potter's House, Louisiana, they've been rocking with me since 2004.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So I can't. So how can I, from a branding perspective, perspective, present something that says it's still both? And so what we did was since that church was called the Potter's House of Denver, which was owned and run and, you know, headed up by Bishop, I said, we're going to make LA a Potter's house church, but we're still going to be LA. We're going to call it the Potter's House at 1 LA, you know, so it was, you know, at the time I thought it was a good idea because it makes them feel like, hey, we're just merging into, you know, a bigger situation with him. And, and I just wanted him to feel like I wasn't leaving them. The only problem is, and I realize this now, that one had a lot of equity. I didn't realize that, like my father in law, he had a talk show. He did. And he had to come out here to do the talk show and everybody on set, you know, the producers, you know, down to the, you know, craft service people, and they're like, yeah, no, I go to one church. And so he's like, like, whoa, this church has a massive brand, you know, and. And we did. So in hindsight.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Wow.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, in hind. And so people still, even to this day, you know, still, even when it was the potter's house at 1 LA would still call it one church.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right?

[Torre Roberts]

That's how strong the brand was. And it was unique for all those years. So. But I changed it and I think it was a mistake, to be honest with you. It wasn't a mistake in my intention to unify and to let my LA people know that I'm still there. But I think. I think if I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't have taken another entity. But that's a whole other story. But anyway, so when the pandemic hit, everybody went online. Everybody went online. We lived in Denver for a year. I moved back because I just couldn't. My family thrived in la, thank God we didn't get rid of our house in Calabasas. My. Our family thrived and I moved back, started doing Denver remotely. And then when pandemic and when I say remotely, streaming from LA into Denver. And then when the pandemic hit, everybody was virtual. So I took Denver and of course LA Virtual kept our feeding center in Denver open and our local outreach to the community open. But I closed church and made it digital only. And I decided to close it it personally or permanently, with the exception of online and local outreach so that I can focus here. When I did that, I brought the name back and so now it's one. But to honor the Potter's House, there's a little tagline that says a potter's House church. So I. So I reclaimed one and one is. Is true to me, right? It's true to me, you know, so.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Anyway, no, I like that. I'm like, I feel like, how long have I been talking to you for?

[Torre Roberts]

This is good. We can do this forever.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I mean, I feel like I didn't ask you any real questions I had written here. But getting back to your book, I think I asked you like three questions. I asked you about balance and I asked you about how to know if you're in balance, how to get imbalance. Do we talk about how to get in balance a few steps?

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, we talked about the step. Step of stopping, quieting the noise and went on a tangent. Which are the first two steps?

[Jennifer Cohen]

The power of no. We didn't really speak about that.

[Torre Roberts]

We gotta talk about.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, let's talk about the power of no.

[Torre Roberts]

That's.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And then we can, like. I can let you out of here. Okay. You can come back again. But like, people are going to be like, what is going on? This is not Joe Rogan five hours. Yeah. So please. And you talk very much about this in the book. About 90% of your time you should say no to things.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Not the opposite. Around the power of no.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What is. What do you. Why? Why? And. Well, why.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah, that's probably. That could be the most important chapter in the book, Power of no. And the reason why no is important is because yes is expensive. You know, when you say yes to something and it's easy to do because. Let's talk about it. Somebody presents something to you, particularly if it's a. A friend, a mentor, somebody you want to work with, you know what I mean? And they present something to you the easiest or an opportunity. The easiest thing to do is to say yes. Because why? There's instant gratification with yes. There was no conflict. You're liked, you feel good, there's instant gratification. Okay, great. Right. But the only thing is it feels good in that moment. But what happens later when something that you really want to do, something that you've been working your butt off for, you've been preparing for, you've been praying about, you got all your friends in, that comes up now you've realized the value of the yes that you gave. Because now you have to say no to something that matters and then you get busy. And so, you know, I am dramatic when I say that you ought to have the 9010 no to yes rule. It does seem dramatic, right? What? 90%. 9 out of 10 things. Things ought to be saying no to. Absolutely. Now, here's the caveat. If you are, you have a good structure, good system around you, good staff or whatever, then maybe it's more like 50% because your staff is screening some of the requests that come your way. So maybe you're at 50, 50, but the average person who doesn't. Who don't have gatekeepers, don't have anybody around you, you should be saying no because you want to have a healthy amount of yeses available for the just. Because when I say yes. I'm committing my time, my energy, my person and my availability. I'm a limited resource. I can't do that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm flattered you're here now.

[Torre Roberts]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Thank you.

[Torre Roberts]

It's true. No, I'm honored. This is great. So no is everything because. Yes, it's expensive. And you know what else I like about no? No qualifies? Your relationships. Because some people the relationship only works because you always say yes, you should just try it. Just like, you know, I always say, let me just throw a no in here and see if they walk away. And you'll be surprised some people if you're offended because I have a boundary and I'm trying to protect myself and I'm trying to better myself and I'm trying to level up and in order to do so, I have to tell you no this one time. If you're offended by that, you're not my friend. My no just qualified the relationship.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Torre Roberts]

So I love no. No.