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Habits and Hustle
Episode 523: Ashley Koff, RD: GLP-1, Weight Loss and the Mistakes That Create Rebound
01:21:43
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- [00:01]
A
Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
- [00:07]
B
In this episode of Habits and Hustle, I sit down with dietitian, author and friend of mine, Ashley Koff, to unpack why weight loss has quietly become the wrong goal for so many people. And how chasing thinner without addressing health is leading to burnout and a rebound weight gain. This conversation cuts through the hype and focuses on what actually holds up when once the shortcut stops working, we break down why GLP1s don't automatically make you healthy. How the real problem isn't the medication, but how people are using it and why not eating on these medications is a major mistake. Okay, guys, we have. My friend is back. My, my friend's back in town. Her name is Ashley Koff. She is a dietitian. But she's not just any dietitian. She's probably one of the smartest dietitians I've ever met. And anybody who knows you her would agree. Seriously, because she's, she's just very knowledgeable and she has a new book coming. Actually her new book is out now and it's called you'd Best Shot. And it's called the Personalized System for Optimal Weight Health. And it's all about the GLP1 epidemic, you guys. Which, which by the way, can I just say one comment and then we're going to take these magic mind shots. If you walk around LA or anywhere at this point, everyone is thin now. It's like, I feel like, is it just the fact that we're living in a pseudo reality? But like, everybody I feel is on one form or another of a GLP one. Have you not noticed this?
- [01:42]
A
You know, it was really interesting. I, the person I had coffee with this morning said the same thing and she's in a different direction. She's 70 and she was like all my 6 year old and 7 year.
- [01:49]
B
Old friends like skinny.
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A
But it's funny like, because some of them are so happy because they are actually healthy and some of them are skinny and unhealthy or unhealthy, er, and nobody's acknowledging the difference. Like, because she was like, a lot of people do not look good. You know, I said one thing's like, I'm 52, like I do not want to lose weight and like people in my face. Are you kidding? Like, and it's like we don't get to choose where we lose weight from, you know.
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B
No, I agree. That's actually a very good point because that is very true. Just because you're skin skinny.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Doesn't mean you look better. Like a lot of the people I see wandering around is that, yeah, they're, they're thinner or skinnier, but they just look exactly the same of how they looked before, just a smaller version of themselves. They don't look toned, they don't look healthier. Their face looks more gaunt. So I really am. I want to talk to you about the major craze of what's happening, but because I've had. I don't know about you, but I've had a really hectic, crazy couple weeks and so my focus is all over the place, which is why I love these little shots.
- [02:49]
A
This is caffeine free, so it's going to help us. Thank goodness it's caffeine free. Cuz, you know, I'm such a slow metabolizer of caffeine. Oh my gosh.
- [02:57]
B
Well, this is a, this is actually a mental performance shot with zero caffeine. You guys. I love it. And it, it actually does the trick. It kind of keeps you on point.
- [03:05]
A
You know, it's a rare day that I'll just take anything, but you happen to have introduced me to these and so.
- [03:09]
B
Really?
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A
Yes.
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B
They're delicious. I take them every day. And that's not because, you know, they're a sponsor. It's because they are delicious. And that's why they are a sponsor, actually. But okay, now we're going to be locked in. Are you ready?
- [03:19]
A
Got to be delicious.
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B
Got to be delicious.
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A
All right.
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B
Oh. Are you okay?
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A
I'm super focused. I'm like. I just felt like form of. It's like a superpower.
- [03:27]
B
It is exactly.
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A
Good.
- [03:28]
B
Okay, so let me first by ask this question. Are like, like everything in the world, right? Things become super, like trendy and there's a fad and the pendulum swings one direction. Like that's my concern with these GLP1s. I think that people are using it more as a crutch, not as a tool. What is your perspective on this?
- [03:46]
A
Yeah. Well, first let's unpack that these GLP1s are doing something super important.
- [03:50]
B
Okay.
- [03:51]
A
They are teaching doctors, dietitians and hopefully. And this is why I wrote this book, individuals about our actual human anatomy. So the body is designed with weight health hormones. GLP1 is one of them. GIP, PYY, CCK. We can go on. And these hormones are the first domino in a line of things that need to happen in our body for us to be weight healthy. And we'll get into that.
- [04:15]
B
Okay.
- [04:15]
A
So what the medications are is they are this version of the medication, not new ones that are coming out, but this version of the medication. They are a biosimilar hormone replacement. So what do I mean by that? You hear bioidentical when it comes to like estrogen or testosterone, insulin. If it was bioidentical, it would be the exact same made in a lab. But your body uses it in the same way. They're biosimilar in that the body uses it in the same way. So when these hormones come to the receptor sites, the body says, I know what to do with GLP1. The the difference is our own body hormones stay on for two to five minutes. These stay on for 24 hours. The first version was for 24 hours. Now it's 24 hours for seven days. So what you want to think of is they are like an amped up version of our own hormone. Right. Basically, when our body gets the hormone from the shot, they get it in a way that keeps us in this metabolically active telling our hormones to go to work state. That has a lot of advantage. It may in our brain calm us down from thinking about appetite. It might calm us from thinking about food. It might make us break up with daily alcohol or, you know, other things. Cause we're it. It shifts how we're thinking about things, but it also does things in, like our gut as an example where if we're delaying gastric emptying for two to five minutes. Now think about we're delaying gastric emptying to some extent for 24 hours for seven days. That's gonna have consequences if we're stuck in a metabolically active phase. If we're telling insulin to go to work, then our body is going to turn around and not be in the recovery mode. So what I see people is they're fatigued or their heart rate variability, which will measure and is a measure of the body's ability to be in a relaxed state. That is tanking, that's going down. So what we have to look at is the medications are working exactly as they're intended to. But we have to understand the considerations. I don't necessarily think it's common, but I think it's considerations. Now anyone taking a medication to lose weight or a doctor prescribing it to lose weight is actually in an old system and creating problems for people. We do not want to lose weight. We want to address why the body is putting ex. Is creating excess fat, why it might be putting fat around or in our organs, why our Bone is, you know, breaking down instead of being reformed. Why we're struggling with muscle mass, why we're struggling with cravings. We want to get to the root causes of those. So if you think of the medication as a solution alone, that's a big problem. But if you use it as a tool. So I love what you picked up on. That's exactly it. If you use it as a tool and you understand how it's working in that person's body and you optimize around it, it can be a very effective tool.
- [07:01]
B
Okay. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that people who should not be doing it are doing it. So that's the first part. Right. And wasn't this medication for diabetics?
- [07:13]
A
Okay, so let's unpack a couple of things. It's really interesting to me. So I grew up with a lot of weight challenges, and I was always told, you're healthy. But from the time I stopped being cute and chubby at around 10 and became fat and, like, fat like a fat girl. And teased and the doctors were like, okay, there's nothing wrong with you. You're just like, just eat less, Ashley. I was actually really active. Some would tell me to, like. So they didn't tell me I needed to be active, but they would say, like, you just need to eat less. And some would say, like, why don't you stop eating when you're full? And I'm like, cool. Like, I can just keep eating because I, like, never felt full, you know, I'm like, all right, you know, Me too. And nobody. Nobody was unpacking the fact that I was on antibiotics from basically the time that I was born multiple, like, almost monthly because of ear infections and throat infections. And even when they ultimately looked at that, like, at 19, and they're like, okay, you need to stop having these ear and throat infections. And they took out my tonsils. They're like, the answer is that there's a problem with your tonsils. It wasn't. Nobody was ever looking at the root cause in there. And so the root cause of my fat was that my digestive system did not work better. Right. And it took me doing a horrible goat's milk cleanse and being in a bar and meeting a weird gastroenterologist who suddenly said to me, it's not what you're eating or what you're not eating. Your digestive system doesn't have what it needs to run better. Why am I saying this to you right now? When you said, people are using that Medication that shouldn't. I totally take issue with that. I take issue with a society that, like, there are so many people taking statins or proton pump inhibitor medications that I feel, as a clinician who does this, I probably could be helping them on or off those medications. But nobody is judging someone for taking a proton pump inhibitor and saying, like, you shouldn't be suppressing acid. You should just be, you know, eating and exercising differently. And so the acid production in your body is different. And we have so much bias around weight. And we turn around and we say, like, I could look at you. The woman that I was with this morning has no extra fat on her body. And she said to me, my doctors are telling me that I should go on this medication. And I'm thinking, like, are they trying to tell me I'm fat? And I said, no. What they're trying to tell you is there's applications for these medications that your appearance isn't. What doesn't tell me anything. You know, the same thing that people say. You could be healthy at every size. Like, you know, why are we judging somebody who's obese and. Or, you know, who has excess fat or whatever? I don't care what your size is. I look inside of you. I want to know, are you healthy inside of you? And so I'm not going to judge someone and say, is it inappropriate for you to be using the medication? Because I have people who have eating disorders and disordered eating. I have people who have blood sugar dysregulation. I have people who have cognitive impairment. Like, other reasons where I'm like, ooh, this might be a part, a tool that could be useful for us, right, For a time period or maybe ongoing. The second part of your point, though, is really valid. If somebody uses this medication and they just think that all I need to do is use this medication, they're not fixing anything. And that part of it is going to mean that that's why you, A, would have to stay on it, and B, in using it, you may. You actually may be missing that. You could be making other things worse. And I think that's what you're picking up on, too.
- [10:20]
B
What can you make worse?
- [10:21]
A
Well, you can make your sleep worse. You can. Your sleep could already not be better. You could make your heart rate variability, which is a measure of your body not being in the relaxed state. State. You know, we're in. We have this yin yang in our body, right? We have our sympathetic and our parasympathetic. And if we aren't careful and we put. Keep our body in a stressed out state too much, then that can cause us to just, you know, sort of burn through things. If we keep pushing our body to be put producing insulin and sending insulin out, that could be an issue for our insulin production. And there are other factors. And certainly if we create a space where we're not hungry all day and so we don't eat all day long, like we. We could take somebody who is already nutrient insufficient and we could make us more nutrient insufficient. And the one that I think you would spark to is if somebody's too tired to exercise or their muscle, they're not building muscle or they're not able to actually make muscle because they're not taking in enough of the nutrition that could help the body build muscle. Then, yeah, you might lose weight, but you're actually more metabolically disadvantaged by being fat without. With lower muscle mass, you know, on that part.
- [11:25]
B
Right. But you know, you know, we've been doing this a long time, right. This business we met, by the way, everyone, we did a weight loss show together eons ago called Shedding for the Wedding. I was the fitness trainer and Ashley was the dietitian, and that's how we became friends. And so this is, this goes back a long time. Right. And you know, there is something to be said for behavior modification.
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A
Totally.
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B
And I mean, you can say whatever you'd like, but I think a lot of people, you know, are not modifying their behavior and they're relying on this medication. And what's happening, what I've seen in real time is people acclimate to the medication and then their appetites come back. And then when they get they. They either have to stay on this medication forever or. Right. And then keep on adjusting it to go up or they start gaining weight back. And when they get off of it, and I've seen this probably six to eight times in the last year, they gain all their weight back and more.
- [12:28]
A
Yes.
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B
Because they actually lost muscle mass and they didn't lose the actual. They didn't lose fat because you're losing both muscle mass and fat. And their appetite comes back with a vengeance.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Which is not great.
- [12:43]
A
So, okay, so let's say this. So why blame a medication for somebody who isn't using it? Right.
- [12:49]
B
Okay, let me say something. Okay, so I got this. The second part of it is I hear a lot of people talk about microdosing it for inflammation, cognition, all these things, but yet there's not really any hard research to prove that it helps with inflammation, it helps with you know, your cognitive abilities. I find that when people want to do something, they'll. They can. They can think of a hundred reasons to do it. If they don't want to do something that they can think of a hundred reasons not to. Right. That's how our brains work. Right. So there's not enough feedback on it. And so there has to be something to the fact that calling a spade a spade.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Which is people this bullshit of, like, body positivity that left because people now can be thin. They're like, body positivity. What? Like that's not even in the conversation anymore. Because everybody's taking it because they want to be.
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A
If you can afford it. So I heard recently, like, you know, like, if you can afford it. So let's go back to behavior modification.
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B
Let me say this one more thing.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So what they're doing is compounding it, and that's a little bit cheaper. Okay. Anyway. Okay, that's. I. That's my rant for.
- [14:01]
A
Okay, so let's unpack a couple of different things.
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B
You love that word, unpacking behavior.
- [14:05]
A
Yeah. Well, there's, like, I think it's important. Important because here, like, that's. It's probably the best word to use here, which is there is an argument for everything you say on either side. Right. And at the end of the day, like, I just say, and like, it's probably my ego. Like, at this point, I'm 52 years old. I've helped thousands of people. You know, if you're coming to me as a patient and you want to get better, I am going to help you. Like, I do not have a crystal ball about how your life is going to go. I also don't even have a crystal ball for the recommendations that I'm going to make. I can't say, hey, Jen, if you take this supplement, this is what's going to happen to you. I can say I strongly think this is what we should do. And then we do an experiment, and then we have you do that and we see, we get the data from it and did it work and did your body show us that it likes it? And then we move on from there. So the one thing that I would say to anyone listening is if you're not taking that approach, you're doing it wrong. If you are listening to anyone, I don't care how brilliant or how they look or like, any of that. I don't care who the biohacker is. Like, any of that piece. Any. If you're following what somebody else did for themself and you're expecting the same outcome. You are to blame. Like that's, it's just bad on that part. Now the other part about behavior modification for the first 20, 25 years of my life and then I would say like also as perimenopause reared like maybe around like 45 to 50, I have tried every behavior modification under the sun. Like I have like free based fiber. I like, I definitely have had you know like 30 grams of fiber before a meal and these like nasty crackers so that like I would feel full because I didn't. I've slammed 120 ounces of water. I've given up drinking. I was a macrobiotic vegan who was like hanging upside down in yoga. I didn't drink. You name it. This is not for not trying. So I want to be really clear there. And when you look at my genetics, I used to think that I was designed to be obese. That was the messages that my genetics showed me when I was able to sit down with somebody who said, there's another way of looking at this. Your body is like you are designed to survive. Like your body hangs onto everything because you are an endurance athlete who is designed to hit it hard and not and survive if resources were not available. I'm like, well that's really cool. Not great for modern day, but you know, it's cool, you know, like outside of that. So I had to reframe everything. And for me what I would say is, what we're not doing enough of is we're not understanding where the rubber meets the road. And this is why I think as a dietitian I am uniquely positioned to have this kind of conversation rather than a physician. Because I think there is a myth of a non compliant patient. Sure, we can have somebody that's just like, I'm not going to get out of bed and exercise, but when I start to unpack, why are you not getting out of bed and exercising? You slept crappy, your digestive system was off, your blood sugar is impaired, you know, so when we start to work on those things, can we get you to a place where you can get out of bed and exercise? Right. It isn't about just telling someone to exercise and then they're not exercising and now we just deem them a failure, you know, because I've been deemed a failure like across the board. You know what I mean? It was like I was the one that ate three containers of a Jenny Craig meal because I was like, okay, well one just didn't fill me up, you know, And I'm like, why am I not losing weight? You know, I was like, as a diet, you know. Yeah.
- [17:22]
B
But those are before I became a.
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A
Dietitian, so let's be clear. Yeah.
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B
We all go into the career that we think we struggle with, right?
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A
Struggle with. Yeah, totally. So funny.
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B
It's always the way that it is. But, yeah. So are you on a GLP one now?
- [17:36]
A
So I like, for me, and I get asked. I love that I get asked that question, too, because I had gained weight as perimenopause and param. Like, so what I will say is, as a kid that struggled with my. With my belly. It was always my belly. And I was like, how do I lose my belly? And it really led me down dark paths. Like, it, you know, really, like, a lot of just negative. Like, I was such, like, a happy, like, in every other aspect of my life, like, successful fun, et cetera. And then I was this diet failure, and I just tried to hide it. I tried to, like, drink and be the fun one. I tried to, like, you know, dye my hair blonde. It turned orange, like, with sun in, you know? I mean, like, I tried everything to, like, not be me. Right? Because I thought my belly was this failure. So when at 45, I started to gain my belly back again, like, and it was incremental. It was slow. And then. And I. There were some things to point to. I'd been through breakups, you know, we, like, for me, it was like pandemic time, you know, for all of us, it was the pandemic time. It was other stuff, but I'm like, okay, let me go to my toolkit and try to figure out, you know, how I can heal myself. And I knew I needed to, like, focus a little bit more on my digestion, on, like, tuning up my digestion. And it was the world of fasting and, like, fast like a girl, you know, I love Mindy's work and stuff. So I started fasting. So I just, like, fasting, AKA not eating. Like, I was just, like. I got down to, like, where I wasn't, like, eating for, like, four hours in a day. And then I decided to train for an endurance event.
- [18:56]
B
Hold on. You weren't. You weren't eating for four hours?
- [18:58]
A
I was only eating for four hours in a day. I created such a small window. I mean. Yeah, I know. And also really not fun to be around. It took me longer to break up with alcohol, too. But then I started endurance athlete training, and so I would do these Long zone twos instead of intense weight lit. Like, what works better for my body, you know, hit, set, hiit and strength training. So I tell all this stuff because, like, I had a great toolkit. You know, I like, I did prolon. I did, like, all these other things. I'm like, I'm still gaining weight. I'm still gaining weight. And so at that point, and the GLP ones weren't, like, popular slash accessible, you know, at that space. And so I slowly, I gave up alcohol. I leaned into my digestive health. I start. After my endurance event, I went back to strength training. I went back to increasing my protein. But then at that point, I was like, okay, I'm, like, in trouble because all those things, I'm still just breaking even. And I was carrying £20 in my belly. And I just was like, like, I can keep getting stronger, but I like, I've got 20 extra pounds in my belly. So that was a very, like, dark moment for me. And at that point, I met a doctor who said to me I had been working with GLP1s for, like, ages at this point. She had worked with the original liraglutide. And she said to me, I want you to know, like, this is an option for you. Like, here's this. Don't feel badly about yourself. And I was like, okay, I'm excited about that. And I was like, all right, I'm going to try this. Your point of, like, low dose. I met Tina Moore and she's like, there's a difference between microdosing and low dose. So I was like, okay, I'm going to start on a low dose. I try a low dose. And what happened to me on a low dose? I stopped pooping. And let me be really clear, as somebody whose entire life was about constipation, if you make me not poop, like, I can't handle it. And I tried everything. I tried magnesium, I tried this other stuff. So I would say it was maybe about like two months. Like somewhere in the range of like two to two and a half months. This is what I will tell you. From the moment that I gave myself my first injection, and this was like 10, like, I guess it's like 10 units, like the smallest amount from a compounding. We'll talk about that in a second. I had a different brain chemistry than I had ever had. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I might not, like, be thinking about food. Like, I didn't realize how much I. I wasn't eating a lot. I just didn't Realize how much I was always thinking about food, right? And like all of these other things. Anyway, after about two, two and a half months in, I'm like, my digestion, like, I can't handle this. I'm not gonna use it. And I had also, at the time, randomly, because of the work that I do, met the folks from New Zealand who make amerisate, which is a compound from hops, and it's a what one might call like a natural or a GLP1 activator. So I started using that, and I was like, okay, I actually like this. And it's not turning off my system in the same way because it only works for four hours and it doesn't. It's not working at thousands percent higher. It's, you know, it's modestly, but I found that I really liked it for my appetite and my cravings. In the midst of all of this, I saw a doctor and she's like, you have a massive fibroid. Like, your uterus is four or five times the size. This is what's going on. This is why you're cramping, why you're bleeding, like all this other stuff. So I ended up having a hysterectomy. Like, nobody here needs to know my whole personal medical story.
- [22:05]
B
But you're selling it.
- [22:07]
A
But I'm going to stop. But, like, here's the story. You asked me a question of the agonist. Like, it would I use the agonist, and I still have it at my house. And I'm like, if I have no idea how actual menopause is going to hit me, especially now that I have had a hysterectomy, if I need it, I would have no problem using it because I know how. I would know how to use it for my body. But the issue that I have in here is everybody, because I took off £20, the only question everybody wants to know is, like, are you using an agonist? And I was like, I just told you, like a whole story here. Like, I climb mountains now. I fix my digestion. I started eating again, by the way. I eat within an hour and a half of waking or game off. Like, I have to.
- [22:43]
B
You don't fast anymore?
- [22:45]
A
No, I don't fast anymore.
- [22:46]
B
That's why you just. But you said, oh, I love this. I love Mindy fasting. I loved your book at the time.
- [22:50]
A
And then it didn't work for me.
- [22:52]
B
I love Mindy, too. Hello, Mindy. However, you know, Mindy's been on this show many times. First of all, I I can't fast to save my life. The only, only kind of fast I can do. And that was even very difficult. Was that prolonged? Yeah, five day fast. Fast mimicking. Because at least you're eating something and.
- [23:09]
A
It works beautiful for me, but I lose muscle on it, so I get pissed.
- [23:11]
B
Oh, really?
- [23:12]
A
Yeah, yeah, totally.
- [23:13]
B
In five days.
- [23:13]
A
In five days. But like the.
- [23:15]
B
So think about that. If you're using muscle in five days. Yeah. What do you like? How can you talk about that? Of course, like, if people are not eating for like months on end, how can you say a GLP one could be good for somebody? Because they're going to be losing an ecule.
- [23:30]
A
I don't want them to use it. So if somebody's using a GLP1 and they're not eating, they're using too much of it and they're using it wrong.
- [23:36]
B
Okay, but the microdosing.
- [23:38]
A
Yes.
- [23:38]
B
Okay, so I know. Okay, now I understand your story. Yeah. So would you. Do you think that microdosing is good or bad? Great.
- [23:46]
A
So if we apply Dr. Tina Moore's and what I believe in as the true term of microdosing. So we have totally lost the marketing conversation. But a true microdose is a microscopic amount. You don't use that for weight health. Do I think using a low dose and a lower dose and use and using it to. And all the other tools is better in most instances? Absolutely. I think people are, and doctors in particular are just saying start at this low dose and go higher and higher. Because that's the research that pharma did because. And they want us to go higher. So I think using a lower dose is oftentimes smarter on that part.
- [24:31]
B
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- [26:11]
A
The compounding has changed. I'm concerned about compounding now. So what happened was the compounding that was available when, when I. That was what I had gotten was a ver. It was a different compounding pharmacy. There's A and B. And so at that time, it was because there was a shortage of the ingredient and the compounding pharmacy, it was held towards the regulations of the FDA and saying that this is. We are only using that ingredient, the compounding pharmacy that, that the ones that are regulated now are regulated at the state level and through a pharmaceutical association. And they may not be the exact same ingredient. And so the real question is, I don't know. I don't know what somebody is using. If somebody is getting semi glutide or they're getting tirzepatide, I like that there are some now that they've added like B12 to. Because everybody's like, well, because more B12.
- [26:58]
B
That's what they're doing now. They add B12. I'm like, especially in Calif. California. Yeah, that's not good.
- [27:02]
A
Well, it depends. So first of all, it depends, is your B12 low? Like. And also I have some people that are doing that and they're going into these longevity centers and they're getting a B12 injection on top of it. And they're also taking a methylcobalamin in their supplement.
- [27:16]
B
What's that?
- [27:17]
A
I know that's B12 and nobody's looking at it, right? And I was like, hey, you're just getting too much B12. More B12 is not the answer on that part. Now, could somebody be. Could have. They have a benefit of getting B12 in with the GLP1 because they weren't getting B12 in before. And is that helpful to them? Yes, but B12 works in the body with B6 and with folate. And that creates. Helps you. When you have the right amount, it helps to reduce homocysteine. So if I just give you B12 and I don't optimize your B6 and your folate. I could also be creating a cardiovascular problem, not solving one. So it's important for us to pay.
- [27:52]
B
Attention to this is what I'm saying. See, this is why I don't love is that like people are not taking into account once you do one thing.
- [27:58]
A
Yeah.
- [27:59]
B
It will offset something else.
- [28:00]
A
Right.
- [28:01]
B
There's a lot of this happening. So people think just like more is more like, oh, I need to lose weight so I'll do this. Or they're ordering it from China or they're ordering that. No one knows where they're getting their stuff from. Now I'm curious about something with GLP1s. I've always been curious. Like triazepatide, semiglutide. There's a new one now. Retrochotype, retro 2 type. Are they all just. They're all GLP1s, but there are some that work on more receptors to make it more effective.
- [28:30]
A
Great question. So semiglutide is a single agonist. It is an agonist. So agonist versus antagonist. A statin and a PPI are antagonist. They work against the way that the body is working. An agonist by definition means that it's doing what your body would normally do. Semiglutide is a single agonist. It is an agonist for GLP1. That's one of your weight health hormones. Then tirzepatide, even though it Sounds like it's a 3:1, tirzepatide is a dual agonist. It is GLP1 and GIP. Retrotide, I don't even think I can pronounce it is a triple agonist. It is for GLP1 and GIP. And then it's going in and it's working on glucose, on a different glucose hormone. Then there's this whole new class of medications coming out called small molecule non peptide. And that's important because they are not bioidentical. So when or. Oh my gosh, you're going to kill me with these names. But I think it's oforglipron or something like that that's going to come on the market this next year. Everybody's really excited about that one because it's oral and it's also. But. And it's called a GLP1 agonist. But when you have the receptor site in the body, there are two pockets to the receptor, as we know. So when you have a GLP1 agonist, it comes in, it hits that first pocket. It's kind of like pool when it hits or pinball when it hits that first pocket, it opens up the next pocket and it lands into the second pocket. This, this one, the non peptide one is just a lab, a chemistry lab project. And it jumps over that first pocket and it lands in the second pocket. So I don't know how that is going to work in your body. And that has me very concerned about, you know, if you skip over something. I've seen plenty of medications, COX2 inhibitors and others that are doing something that is kind of like what the body does, but also different. I don't know what that means. So that is very different to me. But that explains to you how. Liraglutide, semiglutide, tirzepatide, retrotrutide.
- [30:30]
B
So more receptors, I would imagine.
- [30:33]
A
Different receptors or dual receptors or different receptors.
- [30:36]
B
Well, because semiglutide, I feel like ozempic is like old school.
- [30:39]
A
Yeah, it is. It was the OG, right? Og yeah.
- [30:42]
B
But people get way better benefits on triazepatide.
- [30:45]
A
Or you know what's interesting, this is where the data is really interesting. The, the quote, unquote, better benefits are number one. In some of the research it was shown that they lost weight faster or they lost more weight. Okay. You and I have a strong agreement. I don't want you to lose weight faster and I don't want to just mark whether or not you've lost weight. Okay, now I want to know, let's.
- [31:06]
B
Take away the weight problem.
- [31:07]
A
Yeah. Okay.
- [31:08]
B
So we're just getting as nauseous, you're not getting as tired.
- [31:10]
A
Yeah, has not been my patient experience. So I have had so many people that I've taken off of tirzepatide as a part of working with their practitioner taken off of tirzepatide and were using semaglutide. I think at the end of the day, the side effects are for. They're not even side effects. If you have pre existing digestive issues, they are going to get worse on this medication. So if nobody assessed and helped you optimize or resolve those digestive issues and then they put you on this medication and it is going to exacerbate those. If you have those, you're also going to see the higher and the quicker that you go, the more dose and the higher amounts, et cetera, it's just going to keep getting worse on that part. So to me, the, the consideration for the medication choices likely, number one, what's your insurance going to pay for? Or number two, what do you have access to? But what we really want to understand is in any medication, how do we keep it from being too difficult on your body, which is where the side effects become pronounced.
- [32:07]
B
Okay. So.
- [32:08]
A
Yeah.
- [32:08]
B
Are you for, Against. Because I'm still.
- [32:10]
A
Don't put me there. I'm agnostic.
- [32:12]
B
That's my point. Into you, your book. Yeah, I still don't know. Are you. Do you like them? Do you not like them?
- [32:19]
A
Yeah. So are you.
- [32:20]
B
Did you. Because you were on it and you said it changed your brain chemistry and it was great, but then you're. Then you're not on it. You did fiber and you do endurance.
- [32:26]
A
Yeah.
- [32:27]
B
I'm confused.
- [32:28]
A
Yeah.
- [32:28]
B
Do you like it? Are you on it? Why are you not on it? If you still.
- [32:31]
A
Because I don't need it. So at the end of the day.
- [32:33]
B
You just told me you lost 20 pounds.
- [32:35]
A
Yeah, I did. Because I had 20 pounds, like, so my.
- [32:38]
B
Oh, the fibroid.
- [32:39]
A
No, but not even the fibroid. My whole system. So psychologically I was in a bad place. Physiologically, I needed to do work. So I love that we're trying to put people. You can't put me in a box. People want to know, are you pro or con? I am a healthcare practitioner tool or.
- [32:53]
B
A friend of mine.
- [32:54]
A
I did it pro or con. Okay, so the book. Book is. And it says there glp one shot or not, I don't care. So at the end of the day, the answer to the book is I can help you get weight healthy whether you're using the shot or not. For there are people who are going to benefit from using the shot. I have no issue with that. There are people who are going to benefit from using it for a short period of time. There are people who are going to benefit from using it ongoing. There are people who are going to benefit from using a higher amount of it. There are people that are going to benefit from and, you know, have an opinion.
- [33:24]
B
If people.
- [33:25]
A
Here's my opinion. Don't use the medication unless you do what you do in this book. And what you do in this book is you optimize your own weight health and your own weight health hormones. No one gets to go on this medication. And it is not a pass for doing all the other work.
- [33:39]
B
Okay, so what. Okay, so let's move on from a DLPM for one second. Perfect.
- [33:43]
A
Yeah.
- [33:43]
B
All right, so what are the other ways, in your opinion? Because you have to have one if you're on this podcast, for crying out loud, give me an opinion.
- [33:51]
A
Yeah, I'll give you the opinion.
- [33:52]
B
It's like talking from Donald Trump. Trump on both sides.
- [33:55]
A
No, no, no. But I, I think you're wrong there, Jen. And I'm going to hold you to this. You are trying to get me to create a one size fits all, an opinion somebody wants me to have. And the opinion is it has to be personalized.
- [34:06]
B
Okay, so let's talk about this because I think things are real that people psycho. I think the psychological effects are big food noise, you can't. That's, that's a big one.
- [34:16]
A
Yeah.
- [34:16]
B
Curbing cra. You know, the cravings, like, you know, kind of curby nose psychologically, I think.
- [34:23]
A
Optimizing blood sugar where it was high.
- [34:25]
B
For optimizing blood sugar, all the things. So let's say if you're on it or not on it, want to be on it, not be on it, whatever.
- [34:33]
A
Yeah.
- [34:33]
B
What are some other key ways we can optimize our health?
- [34:38]
A
Yes.
- [34:39]
B
That will take us to our goal.
- [34:41]
A
Great. So I use the analogy of making a pizza. So everybody gets a pizza. There's a crust, there's sauce, there's cheese, and there's toppings. Have you ever had a really crappy pizza? But there were a couple of great toppings. Like the topping was delicious, but the rest of the pizza was crappy. The cheese, the sauce, the crust, not great. But the topping was like delicious on that part. Or have you ever chosen a pizza? Okay, I won't even ask you. Anyway, the reality is the crust is digestion and hydration. You cannot have any health outcome. Any health outcome. You can't stop hair loss. You can't make muscle. You can't optimize your cholesterol. You can't prevent Alzheimer's. You can't do anything that you want to do if your digestion is suboptimal. And I include hydration in digestion because hydration is not about drinking water. Hydration has multiple is about your body's ability for water to do all the things it's supposed to do in the body. And one of those is to help it absorb nutrients in that part. Fun fact. One of your weight health hormones, pyy helps to regulate hydration in the colon. So when I talk about repairing your weight health hormones as not optional. You want the opinion from me? Optimizing your weight health hormones is not optional. Glp one shot is optional. Supplements are optional. But we have to optimize our digestion and hydration. Okay. The sauce is better nutrition. It's four pillars. Quantity, quality, timing and balance. You know how I told you that I can't fast in the morning. I don't want people choosing a caloric window like 12 to 8pm meaning where they start eating at 12 and they finish at 8pm and and saying like, I'm doing an eight hour window. For most of us, that eight hour window works much better if we start at 10am or if we start at 8am and we finish at 5 or we finish at 6pm Right. I also want you pit stopping regularly throughout the day. I was just on a panel with one of your favorites with Mark, and we were having a whole conversation about Mark's daily apple. Why am I forgetting?
- [36:37]
B
Oh, Mark is on.
- [36:38]
A
Yes. And he's like, well, I just don't eat if I'm not hungry. And I said, you know, so hunger that like there's a hunger piece to this. But we actually, your body is designed like a race car. We actually need to pit stop pretty regularly to fuel it, to give it what it needs. Whether that's water, whether that's nutrition, you know, on that part, the cheese are your lifestyle choices. Stress, breathing, joy, you know, we want to make sure that we're moving our bodies. So like, what's some of the, like, dumbest. So chapter four is shit to unlearn. One of the things we have to unlearn is how dumb our recommendations are. One of our recommendations is to exercise for 30 minutes in a day. You know, when I say that to someone, you know what they think? Great, I can sit on my butt for 24 and a 23 and a half hours. Like, no, your body needs to be moving like probably about every three hours. And it matters what type of exercise you do. Sometimes you need to be hitting it hard. Sometimes you need to relax. You need to move your fascia. You need, you know, open up your fascia. So when we come over to the lifestyle choices, those are your cheese. So your crust, digestion and hydration, the pillars of better nutrition is your sauce and then the cheese are the pillars of the lifestyle choices. On that part.
- [37:43]
B
That's good.
- [37:44]
A
No shot or not?
- [37:45]
B
No. Shot or not. Okay, let me say a couple things. I think one of the best things you can do for your digestion is actually exercise.
- [37:52]
A
Is exercise. Yes.
- [37:52]
B
Is moving more.
- [37:53]
A
Yes.
- [37:54]
B
However. Okay, here's the however.
- [37:56]
A
When you move more or when you hit it really hard, because I've seen you work out before when you hit it really hard. Right. I've tried keeping up to work out. Sometimes I kept up.
- [38:04]
B
You're good. You're good.
- [38:05]
A
So as we're in that part we have to recognize that the act of exercising at that pace is stressful on the body, so it turns attention away from digestion in the moment. With my pro athletes, with anyone who's hitting it hard, we then, once you finish exercising, we then have to get you to relax. We have to turn off that stress response if we don't do that. And this is one of the reasons I like to use continuous glucose monitors, is because I also will call someone out, they'll tell me, I had a guy who ran five miles every day, and he's like, ashley, I run hills and I run hard. And he's like, I just don't know why I'm not seeing body composition changes and this other stuff. And I looked at his continuous glucose monitor. You know, what his body thought of his run, what his body was like, meh. Like, you could do that in your sleep, dude, I'm actually doing it in my sleep. I went back to him and his trainer and I said, you need to do hiit workouts. You need to do things that are like, this is not my skill set. This is your skill set. But I am telling you, your continuous glucose monitor is telling me your body isn't stressed enough when you're exercising. And so for him, we actually use that information to help, you know, pivot. And that's what changed his weight, health. He did not need a GLP1 agonist, but he was really struggling to make muscle and to see body composition changes, especially with endurance.
- [39:16]
B
I find that a lot of people who are high endurance athletes, your body acclimates to that too. And so, like, okay, now you're running five, six, ten hours. Now what? Like, that becomes like. That becomes like, you know, a walk around the block, like anything else. Yes, your body does acclimate, but I'm talking from a place of just digestive because I think that is a big one.
- [39:38]
A
It is.
- [39:38]
B
I agree with you.
- [39:39]
A
Midsection movement. I mean, you. We've been at hotels, we've, you know, stayed near each other. Stay. I've stayed here. Like, I will roll over, like, if my midsection after a flight is not working, I'm gonna roll over on, like, whatever ball you have. Like, I literally. I'm gonna lay on it and roll it around or I'm going to do chair twists on the airplane. You know, I'm going to move, like, to move around and to move the midsection, right? Our body, like, the muscles in there, like, we have to move, you know, that football field, we have to move it, you know, on that Part.
- [40:06]
B
Yeah. That's interesting because I feel like I never thought about that part. What I think about is that's why I don't like spin class or cycling, because we sit all day anyway. Right. So, like, I believe you should be vertical and like upright as much as possible.
- [40:24]
A
Yeah.
- [40:25]
B
Like, I'm a big believer. Believer that movement. Yeah. I don't even like the word exercise. Yeah, same like, I think if it's between movement or exercise, move, because that 100 will help with your digestion, your, your, your, your, your brain, your cognitive abilities.
- [40:40]
A
Like if you're running around after, like, like put me with my 5 and 7 year old niece and nephew and I'm like exhausted after three hours because we are moving, like most of the time, we are moving the entire time. So don't turn around and tell a mom or a caregiver, an aunt or somebody else. Like, like, on top of that, you now have to exercise. No, for that person, they may need to actually go stretch. They may need an Epsom salt bath. They may need to turn off their stress as a reaction to that. So I think we've inappropriately, we've given these mantras of making things really simple. You know what I mean? And it's just, we've so screwed up when people say eat 5 servings of fruits and vegetables. Everyone hears fruits and not vegetables. Because first of all, fruit's delicious and it's sugar. It's like, okay, that's true. I love that on that part.
- [41:25]
B
Yes. Or you know, my thing in fruit.
- [41:27]
A
Right. And it's like. And then we can't stop.
- [41:29]
B
Right.
- [41:29]
A
You know, in that part. So I think that we like so much of this also with our weight, health hormones, is eating what's delicious to us and using our body the way that it was meant to be used to. Your point of we've got to move more.
- [41:43]
B
Yeah. So a couple other things. Yes. Are we eating too much protein?
- [41:48]
A
So there's no we. So the question mark is are you, Jen, eating too? Are you too much protein? So the ways that. So there are two different sides. It's too much.
- [41:57]
B
Hold on. Because that I want to ask about if we're eating too much protein because we're talking about digestive issues.
- [42:03]
A
Exactly.
- [42:03]
B
That can be a problem.
- [42:05]
A
You're so smart. Yeah.
- [42:07]
B
I didn't just fall off the truck yesterday.
- [42:09]
A
You didn't?
- [42:10]
B
Yeah.
- [42:10]
A
I love that. And I saw your recent podcast a couple months ago about that, and I think it's. I'm so glad we're paying attention to it. So first of all, the. One of the things that does not help us is when we give an amount of protein for in the day, like, and we base it off of our weight. So if you're like, especially if your weight is above 150 pounds, this whole idea of one gram per pound, like when you get to 200 and 300 pounds, like, somebody should not be eating that much protein. The question often that I'm faced with is, are you getting, are you giving your body enough protein in a moment that it helps to. To resource the body with what it needs protein for, but also that it's stabilizing blood sugar? Right? So that's usually for most people, you don't want to go lower than 15 grams at an eating occasion. And that's really important because remember all those bars like, that were like eight. Like, like they'd come out and they'd be like, I'm a high protein bar. And it was like 8 grams, you know, because things used to be 4 grams, you know, before. So we do have to have a baseline minimum. The question of, at any time do you go above 30 or 40 grams at a sitting, you have to have optimal digestion. I will also look at your blood sugar because excess protein can negatively impact your blood sugar. The other piece of it is, is, is your digestion able to break down the protein that you're currently getting in? So sometimes as an example, after a really intense workout, the reason that I might use liquid nutrition that is higher in protein, there is somebody may not be able to break down and absorb the. And like, have the. The digestion has been turned off. So eating a steak at that moment might not be a better idea, but having something in the liquid form or having cottage cheese or something else that's a little bit easier, you know, might. Might be easier for them at that. But when we look at too much, the signs of too much are, do I have, like, do I have bad gas? Do I have acne? Do I have bloating? Do I. Are things going the wrong way? Do I have reflux? Do I have constipation? You know, so digestive issues. And then we really have to look at, from an amino acid standpoint, maybe you're having, like, you're having the same. Maybe you're having eggs and chicken and eggs and chicken and eggs and chicken. And we, we need to get some other amino acids in there to help you. So it's not always about more protein, but we should be assessing somebody's protein rather than just coming in and Then saying, like, eat more protein. But here's the final one that I find the kicker. What? Food in nature is protein.
- [44:26]
B
I mean, I'm gonna say it differently.
- [44:29]
A
No, I'm gonna say it differently because I set you up there.
- [44:32]
B
What?
- [44:32]
A
Food in nature is only protein.
- [44:35]
B
Well, you have fish that has a lot of cheese.
- [44:38]
A
Nothing. The answer. Nothing.
- [44:40]
B
Nothing. Okay.
- [44:40]
A
Nature did not create. There's a total trick question, right? So salmon has fats. Nope. Fats in there. Their fats are actually some carbohydrates. There are some antioxidants, et cetera. So the dumb advice is start your meal with protein. Like, no, like, start your meal with a food that contains protein. But I need to know, like, there's a difference between maybe having lentils, which contain protein versus having steak at the start of your meal, or there might be a difference for you between having hemp seeds and having wild salmon, even though they have a very similar essential fatty acid profile.
- [45:12]
B
Okay, so are. Are most people not. You said we don't like the weed, but in general.
- [45:19]
A
Yeah.
- [45:19]
B
Now that proteins become so popular and trendy, in terms of, like, people are, I think, a little bit over protein. Yeah. Themselves. You don't think. You think that that can. That is happening?
- [45:29]
A
I definitely think it's happening, and it's happening because the advice is, is to eat protein. I think what's happening is, number one, people are making choices that they don't realize maybe how much fat they're also getting in, or they're getting rid of all carbohydrate and just feeling like, I'm only gonna choose protein and fat, like, and not have the others. And as a result, they're not getting the right balance of nutrients on that part, and they are band aiding their digestive issues. I mean, you see, like, people who are free basing magnesium, you have people who are, like, really freebase.
- [45:58]
B
You said it twice. I like that term when it's like, freebasing magnesium.
- [46:02]
A
It's a drug term. So this is why you don't know.
- [46:04]
B
If you're freebasing cocaine. You're all the time. But magnesium.
- [46:07]
A
So literally, we've gone from a society that freebases cocaine to a society that free bases magnesium. People are. I have people who have literally told me that they are taking magnesium with every single meal because otherwise they're constipated. Like, Jesus. I mean, that, like, that's an important thing to recognize that, you know, maybe we need digestive enzymes. Like, maybe we, you know, just need to eat less at a particular meal. On that part.
- [46:29]
B
So people actually free base magnesium because they're constipated?
- [46:32]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [46:33]
B
Okay. And so, like, I was actually gonna.
- [46:36]
A
Instead of moving their belly.
- [46:37]
B
Instead of moving their belly. So like going on a Swiss ball where they're, you know, and just like moving around.
- [46:41]
A
Yeah.
- [46:42]
B
But what about digestive enzymes?
- [46:44]
A
Yeah.
- [46:45]
B
If we ate, if we, if we took a couple of those supplements, do we take it before we eat or after we eat?
- [46:51]
A
Yeah. So digestive enzymes are different than proteolytic, than other enzymes.
- [46:54]
B
Okay.
- [46:55]
A
They do have to be taken. They should be taken typically right before or right with the start of your meal. Because the body produces digestive enzymes and it produces them in response along with our weight health hormones, in response to signals that we are getting in food. Right. So it is like, it's a personal assistant for your digestive tract. So, number one, when you optimize your digestion, you might not need digestive enzymes, because in that optimization, you may help your own body produce enough digestive enzymes. During that process of optimization, we may use digestive enzymes as a supplement to help you. And then the other side of it is there are times where you might just benefit from using a digestive enzyme. As an example, maybe you're eating different food from what you normally eat or. For me, I travel so much and traveling, like, especially on a long flight or a long car ride because I'm not used to being sedentary and the air pressure, it will negatively impact my digestion. So I use digestive enzymes to help me. It's like a personal assistant that I use for my digestion in those moments too.
- [47:55]
B
So do the digestive enzymes do the same thing for your digestive system, for your digestion that magnesium would.
- [48:02]
A
No different. Okay, so magnesium is a mineral, is designed to. And it works in opposition to calcium and it's one of our electrolytes. And it is designed to relax like it exists in our cells to kick out calcium, to turn off the stress response. So it is allowing relaxation. So why it's helpful for things like constipation is if. If your constipation is motility related. And I do a whole deep dive on magnesium and to choose the right magnesium from food and from supplements. In the book, when we're looking at that and you come in and you say, like, okay, so if your motility is slowing down, if you follow classic recommendations for constipation and you eat more fiber, you're just going to have a slowed down system with a snowball of fiber in there and it's going to be more painful. So we need to do is we need to encourage the motility. And that's where an optimal amount of magnesium can be helpful. Digestive enzymes are different. Digestive enzymes are in your body and they're like forks and knives. So, you know, maybe we didn't chew our food optimally, but just think about, like instead of cutting your food into one or two pieces, now think about cutting it into 30 pieces. And what we're trying to do is have it be absorbed better. So that's the job that it does.
- [49:08]
B
So it breaks down the food.
- [49:09]
A
It breaks it down the food. So it's in breakdown I, one of the chapters of the book, I talk about how we're not having breakdowns often enough. We are not breaking down our food. So we're giving people, like society gives people a lot of credit for what we're eating, like kale and salmon. And we're like, oh, those are healthy foods.
- [49:24]
B
Yeah.
- [49:24]
A
Your body doesn't give you credit until it is broken down into nutrients and in the cells and able to be used by the cells. And then it high fives you. And then it's like, I'm gonna grow hair, I'm gonna give you energy, I'm gonna do whatever.
- [49:36]
B
That's a really good point. So I think that's important because I think what I found out was I'm not even absorbing the nutrients that I'm even eating. So here I am eating all these like healthy foods that are not great when I'm not even absorbing them.
- [49:49]
A
Yes.
- [49:50]
B
So how do people even find out if they are absorbing?
- [49:52]
A
If they're absorbing? Yeah, yeah. So one of the things, because I always want us to be able to do this personally, so I've created the first ever weight health hormone assessment. And included in there is an assessment of absorption. We also can use better quality tests. Like, you know, there are a variety of different digestive like poop tests, you know, we can test from that part. However, your body's gonna tell you, like, if you are not, you know, if you are having any of the digestive issues, then we have to work on absorption and we have to remember that hydration is a part of absorption. So hydration brings water and nutrients into the cells. So if you are dehydrated, if you're peeing all the time and you're drinking water, then it's going to tell me that you're not absorbing nutrients into the cells. So absorption, you know, and if you drink alcohol, if you are on non steroidal anti inflammatories like an ibuprofen, a Tylenol, if you've used hormones, if you are on certain medications, if you experience stress less ever, if you eat things that your body is intolerant to. So if you find out you're gluten intolerant or you find out and oh, by the way, if you have any exposure to any environmental toxins, all of those things are affecting the lining of the digestive tract and that's where our absorption is occurring. So the majority of people that I see, a tune up of your absorption is warranted on a regular basis. It is not something we do once in our lives. Like I didn't do it at age 20 and boom, I've had weight health the rest of my life. It's something we have to do. I recommend on a quarterly basis.
- [51:15]
B
Wow. Yeah, those poop tests are super popular.
- [51:18]
A
They're very, they're different kinds now. So there was a, like poop in tubes, you know, and take those tubes and go. And we'd look at those and those provided us with a lot of information. But now with the introduction of a more full spectrum genetic test, we can also poop, wipe ourselves and swipe, you know, and like, do I know. I love your face, but all you have to do is swipe that kind of like we would do a COVID test in our nose. You send it in and you get all of this information and what I.
- [51:44]
B
Learned about you wiping yourself and what are you doing?
- [51:46]
A
You just like, you take the Q tip or whatever on that, you know, on your poop. So it's a lot better than having to like stuff your poop into tubes and do that. But it's great, it can give us great insights. However, if you do one of those tests and you buy one of those tests online and you get the AI report and it says you're low in this and you're high in this and you just start to go take, you know, whatever you're low in, I'm going to start taking. And whatever I'm high in, I'm going to avoid. No, that's not the way that it works. You need a clinician who's trained in the test. You need, you still need somebody to interpret it and say like, but why is this happening? And in most of my patients case, it's, it's insufficient intake of glutamine, which is an important amino acid. And it's also lifestyle behaviors that are not and nutrition choices that are not optimizing absorption.
- [52:26]
B
Like What?
- [52:27]
A
Like as an example, every time we need an antibiotic, it's going to negatively affect the lining of our digestive tract. And one of the reasons I broke up with alcohol was because. Just one of the reasons was because I was tired of what I call washing my floor with dirty shoes. Like, I'm working so hard on my weight, health and on my belly. And then you're sitting there and you're like, okay, every time I have a drink, it's eroding my digestive lining and my liver's ability to work better at it. And I was just like, honestly, it's not that worth it to me on that part. You were well ahead of the game on that part.
- [52:57]
B
Yeah. I think drinking is like the absolute worst thing you can do for any type of weight, weight loss program or any health program.
- [53:05]
A
Healthy.
- [53:06]
B
Yeah. Like, you feel bloated. You're like, it keeps weight on. It's just you feel gross, sluggish. I never understood it. Thank God. I don't like the taste of it because that.
- [53:16]
A
Oh, I love the, like, I loved the taste. What I found for me too, it was a social coping mechanism. And so I would find that I would drink because I either didn't want to be there, like very bluntly. And so then I was like, well, if I drink, like maybe I'll enjoy myself, you know, and you know, and then like, and I also stayed longer and it, you know, and then I also, you know, your budget or whatever. But I also found that it negatively, like I was like, it would help me lean into other behaviors that I don't like, you know, it made it harder for me to feel present or honestly to be. To just to choose who I wanted to have in my life, you know, versus like the people I don't need to have in my life.
- [53:54]
B
Right, right, right.
- [53:55]
A
You know what I mean?
- [53:55]
B
It's like a lubricant for like. Yeah. So like you end up being. Being with whoever it's around you because they're. I get that. Totally.
- [54:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [54:09]
B
Let me share my daily routine game changer with you. It's the Momentous3. I've been using their protein, their creatine and omega 3 combo for months now and the results are undeniable. These nutrients are key for long term health and performance, but hard to get enough of through diet alone. The crea pure creatine boosts both physical and your mental performance. The grass fed whey tastes great with no weird aftertaste. And their Omega 3 is a must for recovery since adding These, my energy, my recovery and my overall well being has really improved. So if you want better performance, this is the way to go. Visit livemomentous.com and use my code Jen for 35% off your first subscription. That's livemomentous.com code Jen for 35% off your 1st subscription. Trust me, you'll be happy you did. I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor Therassage. Their tri light panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go and I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations and places in my body where honestly I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach, cramps, shoulder, ankle, red light therapy is my go to. Plus it also has amazing anti aging benefits including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therissage Trilite everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code BEBOLD for 15 off. This code will work site wide. Again. Head over to therasage T-H-E R-A-S-A-G-E.com and use code BEBOLD for 15 off any of their products. I wanted to ask you about something that requires. Recently I was kind of, I've been like playing around with. Because I had someone on the podcast and he was, it was actually the medical medium who's very, very like polarizing. Super polarizing. But I will tell you one thing about that guy. As, you know, as polarizing and as kooky as some people may think he is, I will tell when I posted him and like put him on my stuff, the amount of people who are like, oh my God, he changed my life. Oh my God, he was right or accurate about that. So like, listen, if it's working for someone, right, I think it was fascinating. And he did say something that I thought was interesting. He said that your immune system is in your blood. System is in your blood, in your blood, not in your gut. What do you think about that?
- [57:22]
A
I think he's right and wrong.
- [57:24]
B
Okay, you hate this.
- [57:25]
A
Like, what's the position?
- [57:26]
B
Remind us never to happen, never gonna have us again. I mean, this is real. Like we want an opinion.
- [57:32]
A
Okay, so I'm gonna tell you, you can't Ignore that your immune system is in the lining of your gut. So he is physiologically wrong on that. What you also can't ignore is that. So I don't actually think we have an immune system. All right, you want my full opinion on this?
- [57:48]
B
Yes.
- [57:48]
A
We don't have an immune system. We have a body. It is an ecosystem. It is so dumb for us to talk about a digestive system, an immune system, a nervous system, an endocrine system. Like, that was like a convenient way for us to teach people about the body and to create a healthcare system that is not working well for us because it segments where we send people. Like, you have a heart problem, you see a cardiologist, when really you should be working with me on your gut, you know, or you should be working with you on your fitness or, you know, whatever, like in all of that. So what he's doing is, number one, being dramatic, which always gets you likes and shares. But number two is saying, like, how could the blood not be part of the immune system? But why does he have to say that the digestive system isn't? That your digestive system is.
- [58:27]
B
Let me tell you what.
- [58:28]
A
So that's key.
- [58:29]
B
Okay.
- [58:29]
A
Yeah.
- [58:30]
B
He made a good point. He said that people are getting way too much blood draws. Right. They're getting a lot of blood. And when people are sick.
- [58:37]
A
Yeah.
- [58:38]
B
And then they go to the doctor and they're like, okay, let's take your blood again.
- [58:41]
A
Yeah.
- [58:41]
B
And the more and more blood that you're getting taken, the sicker you're becoming because they're like stripping your immune system. So what I. Why, why I'm bringing this up is because, you know, people say, like, even your. A lot. Everyone says you need to. A lot of people. Not everyone. That you need to get your biomarkers checked. Let's say quarterly.
- [58:59]
A
Right. Let's talk about that.
- [59:00]
B
Okay.
- [59:00]
A
I didn't say you need to get your biomarkers. Okay.
- [59:04]
B
I'm talking about other people. I've had more than one person on the show.
- [59:06]
A
Okay. But thank you for making me your second guest. All right, cool. Yeah.
- [59:12]
B
What I was going to say is that more and more I'm noticing.
- [59:16]
A
Yeah.
- [59:17]
B
That People started with 80 biomarkers. You're getting checked. 100 biomarkers are getting checked. For now, someone's coming to my house. Yes. For this. This really elaborate program, and they're doing 500 biomarker testing. When is enough is enough. And like, when I go see my doctor, he's like, listen, there's always so many things we can, like, check. Like, you can test for a thousand things. I think functional health now is going to do a thousand or someone else is going to do a thousand biomarkers.
- [59:46]
A
Because they need a point of differentiation to market themselves.
- [59:50]
B
Right. For marketing purposes. Yeah, but is that, isn't that just becoming too excessive?
- [59:54]
A
Okay, so two different things to think about. The first thing that. Because then we also have, you know, like, you can go get total plasma exchange where people are like, giving their entire blood and like bringing plasma and.
- [60:07]
B
Talk about that, too.
- [60:08]
A
So when we talk about being sick or like. So is there such a thing as too much? Yes. And also I want to acknowledge, I don't think doctors are the best suited to help people optimize their nutrient levels, because the way that doctors are taught, and we're in a doctor society that I am trying to break open, doctors are taught to look at biomarkers almost exclusively and diagnose you. So they might look at a CBC like the one that your insurance, that old one, remember, like 10 markers.
- [60:37]
B
Right.
- [60:38]
A
And they might say your iron is low. And you know what they'll then tell you to do is to go take an iron supplement. I can tell you I'm not going to do it right now, but I can tell you 15 reasons your iron could be low. One of them could be your testosterone. They haven't even tested your testosterone in that part. So when we, when we make, when we look at blood markers and we use those. So this society of, like, I need more blood markers and I need more blood markers. And I'm going to tell you something funny about this one that you're about to have done. Like, I'm going to get more and more and more tested. At the end of the day, if you're not absorbing your nutrients, nothing is going to improve in any of those markers. So, like, I don't need, I don't need you to do that. I don't need you to do a poop test. If you come in and you tell me that you're farting and it smells really badly or that you feel like you're five months pregnant, you know, you look like you're five months pregnant or you're putting on weight and you don't know why, or. And I ask you questions, my entire book is, these are. The whole chunk of this is a playbook. These are the questions you need to be asking. And only one part of the assessment, only one part in there are 10 labs to look at. Now, that does. Doesn't mean that there aren't really valuable labs. Like, it doesn't mean that if I'm curious about your testosterone, I might want five labs drawn. And that could be an important thing to do. But when we go in and we do all of these labs and then we give you an AI report that tells you, like, that doesn't know what you're doing or any of this other stuff and tells you, here's what I would do based on your labs, honestly, you're the fool for following it. Like, I mean, at the end of the day. And so when he's saying, you're just giving your lab, I think you're wasting your time, your money and your blood if you're doing it inappropriately. That said, I also think what we have is a reaction to a society where we have had for too long too few blood markers and the wrong markers, and we've been making decisions, you know, about that. So are there some blood markers that I would look at on a quarterly basis? Yes. Are there some that I would look at every six months? Absolutely. Did I use and do I use function health myself? Yes. Because without having a physician that I could turn to immediately when I was trapped, when I was moving, that could look at all of that. But you know what pissed me off? I went back for my. They're like, we include two blood draws in a year. Yeah. But they didn't include any other one in the second lab draw. It didn't include any of the ones that I needed to look at. Right. It only included like their second set. On that part. It wasn't. That wasn't helpful to me. So then I ended up paying, like, if I had gone with them, I would have ended up paying another thousand dollars to get the ones that I actually wanted to get drawn. So there. The models of healthcare that are out there that are creating access, and the ones that are telling us to do all of these things aren't better. And anyone that's coming over to your house, I love that they're coming to you. And that's wonderful. But I just really have to question, like, why do you need more blood drawn? We know you need to work on getting yourself to absorb more nutrients. So unless it's a follow up to that to see if you're now absorbing nutrients better, I think you're wasting your blood and your money and your time.
- [63:29]
B
Okay, so then what are the 10 biomarkers that everyone should be looking at?
- [63:32]
A
Yeah. So in, so in, in the book, I look at the ones that are gonna give me information about your weight Health hormones. Right. I had to make a decision to include hemoglobin A1C and it really bothered me. Hemoglobin A1C is a 90 day average of our blood sugar. It is better than just having a fasting glucose. We prick our finger in the moment and we find out our blood sugar for from a trend standpoint. But because it's an average, it doesn't give me really good information. But when I use that, it can give me a little bit of insight. And then I also like to use a continuous glucose monitor. So I did include a 1C. I included vitamin D, because I want to know about that one. I included ldl. I included your triglycerides. I also included in there fasting insulin. If you have access to it, that one could be helpful. Hscrp. So a marker of inflammation. Noting that it might not be the best marker of inflammation, but it gives me a little bit of information on that part. I forget what numbers I'm at at this point, but I think there might be one or two. Oh, your ALT and your ast, because they're gonna help me see if I should be looking at your liver as it relates to fatty liver. We haven't even talked about that. Like why are we create. What, what happens when the body like you could be a quote unquote, healthy weight. But I see so many people where their AST and their ALT are elevated above where they should be. And that tells me that their liver is really struggling. And we wanna, you know, we need to optimize our liver on that part. So, so those give me in. That's one part of weight health hormone assessment. So those labs can give me good directional information. In addition to you answering questions about your lived experience, in addition to us measuring your breathing, your heart rate variability, in addition to us looking at your weight composition, not your total weight, I could care less what the total number is. And in addition to us asking about questions and assessing your digestion and hydration.
- [65:15]
B
Got it?
- [65:16]
A
Yeah.
- [65:17]
B
All right, so what are some ways that we can improve the way we absorb our nutrients? Great.
- [65:23]
A
So first of all, not giving our body too much at one time. So recognizing that when we give our body a good amount, that is actually better than giving it more because if it has too much work, it can't absorb it. The second one is optimizing hydration. So instead of pounding, you know, say 60 ounces of water at one time, maybe it's 8, 10, 12 ounces. Maybe your food is rich in electrolytes, maybe you're not also having alcohol or caffeine at the same time, and we're not eliminating it. Maybe we need an electrolyte supplement. What's in that electrolyte supplement? Depends, et cetera. And then the third one that I think is really interesting is, you know, you were talking about movement and being active. So actually we. The body is not going to want to absorb nutrients when we are inactive because the body's gonna be like, I just may as well store it as fat. Cause I don't need to use it in that part. So part of absorption is getting that balance. Right. Between not, you know, what do I give my body when I have been really active, and then also what do I give my body when I'm not active.
- [66:21]
B
Got it. I like that. I think that a lot of women struggle with this whole thing, right?
- [66:25]
A
Yeah, big time. Also, because so many women we've been on, you know, one of the ones that I think for me was inappropriately was, you know, I was told to be on birth control for heavy periods. So birth control is one of the ones that's challenging to our body's absorption. The lining of our digestive tract, et cetera.
- [66:41]
B
Really?
- [66:41]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [66:42]
B
So if you're on birth control pills, it can make you constipated.
- [66:45]
A
Not so much about the making. It could contribute to constipation, but it can also deplete nutrients that our body needs to be able to absorb nutrients.
- [66:53]
B
Oh, yeah, right. We're talking about that. Sorry. See how tired I am? Yeah. Any more magic I know has your.
- [66:57]
A
Magic, your magic magic hour.
- [66:59]
B
I meant more like nutrient absorption.
- [67:02]
A
And another one that we both like is one of the reasons I like Akkermansia as a microbe. Akermansia, clostridium, bifidobacteria. But akkermansia is called by name is Akkermansia mucinophilia. It's a probiotic. The mucinophilia means I like mucin. And it means that it goes in and it chews up, up the mucus in the lining of your digestive tract. And when it chews it up, it's getting rid of the old and bringing it and forcing the body to create new. So that's part of the repair work for the lining of the digestive tract.
- [67:32]
B
But didn't you. You told me off camera that glutamine is really good for. Glutamine is great absorption.
- [67:37]
A
Yeah. And when we were taught nutrients, you know, but whenever we were learning about that, we were taught that glutamine because the body can make it is something that's called conditionally essential. And what I communicate to all of my patients and publicly is that existence in 20, 25, 26, 27 and beyond is making glutamine more of an essential nutrient. Yes, the body can make it, but we have increased our needs for it because of all of these other things that challenge muscle and challenge the lining of our digestive tract. So it is both helps us with building muscle and it also helps us with the repairing. It's the glue, if you will, for the lining of the digestive tract.
- [68:14]
B
So that's one that I feel that people don't talk about enough. Right. You hear a lot about vitamin D, you hear a lot about Omega 3, you hear a lot about the creatine of course is really popular. The same supplements kind of keep on.
- [68:26]
A
Glutamine is one of my. I don't actually put people on other nutrients until typically it's either glutamine plus the others or I use glutamine for a time period then I add in other nutrients. Because if you're not going to be able to support the, be able to absorb it, why do I care if I'm putting it into your body? Right. It's just going to be gone on that, that part.
- [68:46]
B
So I should start taking my glutamine again.
- [68:48]
A
Yeah. Remember that?
- [68:49]
B
I remember I used to be on that a long time ago.
- [68:51]
A
Yeah, It's a good one. And I think also too, you know, it's another one is we've encouraged more and I love plant based eating. Not. I'm not. And if you're plant monogamous, I, I love that part too. But you can get glutamine from different food sources. But if you're not eating animal protein, you're probably going to be getting a lot less glutamine.
- [69:08]
B
I think Momentous has one. Yeah, that's good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna.
- [69:12]
A
How would you know that one's good? Good?
- [69:13]
B
Well, because you told me.
- [69:14]
A
Yeah, they're good.
- [69:16]
B
That's how I know. So momentous.
- [69:18]
A
There's a shout out and there are some people that have concerns. I think it's right. Dr. Russell Jaffe, who is the founder of Perk Supplements. I one of the. Their. I use their glutamine with a lot of patients. I take it myself. It's called Endura P A K and I like that one because if you're. If your body recycles glutamine, there are, there can be some downsides to it. I have people who are just, just so insufficient in it that I'm not concerned about that. But if you are somebody where it's come up that you have that concern, then endurapac is going to be an excellent one. I just wish they made it in a powder because I try to not take as many capsules, but those are some of the capsules that I'll take more often.
- [69:55]
B
I remember that Ashley gave me a really good tip. She says not to have as many capsules and have most things in liquid form or powder. Or powder because of what the capsules are made from. Right. People will think about that. What are the actual capsules? It kind of depends.
- [70:10]
A
You know, there's. There's some now that are. They call it Pulan P U L L A N, I think, or pulling. And that had a big issue because it's naturally made from seaweed. And so people were like, that's got carrageenan. But they didn't understand natural versus not natural. You'll see in. I mean, one of the things that I use when I, you know, I've evaluated thousands and thousands of supplements is I'll actually look at what is lining made. And maybe it's made from gelatin, maybe it's made from, you know, it's a vet. A lot of them will just say veggie capsule. Yeah, but that's kind of like vegetable oil. Like, beware. Like what is your capsule actually made of? Is something you want to know?
- [70:43]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Is there any other kind of like interesting little things like that you can share with us?
- [70:49]
A
Yeah. Like what? What when you're trying to pick something, you mean.
- [70:52]
B
Well, no, I like that one about the, the capsules like that that's stuck in my head. A couple things that you've told me before. The sponge versus.
- [70:58]
A
Oh, the hose versus the sponge.
- [71:01]
B
Because I think people do. They chug water.
- [71:04]
A
Yeah. And then pee it on.
- [71:05]
B
And they put. And they basically. They're not absorb. Absorbing it because they're just, just you're not. You're supposed to like drink slow, right?
- [71:11]
A
Well, you can drink slow or fast. But what's interesting is there are three phases and I go through this. Once you figure out are you a hose or a sponge with sponge being optimal. I go through looking at your water intake, how much, how often, what type of water. And then the second thing I look at is your exposure to dehydrators, especially right around the time you're taking water, including stress, because stress is a dehydrator Too much sugar, like, added sugar is, is elevated sugar. Blood sugar is a dehydrator.
- [71:37]
B
Stress is a dehydrator.
- [71:38]
A
Yes, yes. Hi, Jen. I know hygiene. I know. Oh, my God.
- [71:43]
B
I didn't know stress is a dehydrator.
- [71:45]
A
Yes. And so when we look at these things. So then. And of course, like, things like alcohol and caffeine. And by the way, I'm not in sugar. Like, I'm not saying we can't have any of these. We just have to recognize that they may be why we're not absorbing water. And then the third one that everyone's giving so much attention to is, what are those hydrators. So those minerals that can help us to, you know, so. Magnesium, sodium, calcium, potassium. Most of us do not get in enough potassium. Like, and we do not want to supplement high amounts of potassium, but we want to make sure we get. But I have a lot of people who, like, I had one doctor call me, she's a friend of ours, and she was like, all my patients heard the Huberman podcast, and they're all taking two elementees a day, and they're getting in, like, two grams of sodium. And I said, I know. I'm like, first of all, again, the listener who is doing this, like, you're the problem. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna call you out on this, this. But you don't. You are not his size. You might not even be male. He went through his diet and figured out, like, okay, for him, he sweats a ton, he exercises a ton. And he realized, I'm not getting salt in. In other places. And this one works for me. You have to do that, that same thing. And I talk about that in the book. It's really important.
- [72:47]
B
And I, I actually, I tease you because I, I, because of the whole, like, one size does not fit. All so true. People look at somebody on Instagram and they're, they're like, okay, if I do exactly what that person's going to do, I'm going to look like them or I'm going to be like them. No, you're not.
- [73:01]
A
That's right.
- [73:01]
B
That's right. First of all, nah, that doesn't work like that.
- [73:04]
A
You know that time that I tried spraying my hair to get your color and I ended up with orange? Like, I literally looked like Ronald McDonald. I had orange curly hair. My mom made me cut it off. Like, I mean, I was like, at a, like a buzz cut it for my sixth grade pictures. Because she was like, this is so embarrassing. So, like, I think that's good. Like, buyer beware on that part. The other thing though, this.
- [73:22]
B
Stay on that sun influencing. Because I totally did the same thing.
- [73:25]
A
Oh my God.
- [73:25]
B
I wanted to look at this blonde girl named Jennifer Feldman and I did the same thing. I put like the blonde, the, the sun into my hair. I was, it was orange and gross. And I was like, yeah, I have blonde hair like this.
- [73:37]
A
Yes. You know, and like I could sit there and try to eat what you eat, like, and just be like, I'm gonna eat what you eat so that I can look the way that you look. And like, I mean, and you want to see the fastest way to me, like putting on ten pounds. Right. And like, even if I ate what you ate and exercise the way that you did, like, it's not going to work for me. But the one thing I think that is what the reason that I wrote this book and the book has online resources, including access to health coaches. The reason I wrote the book is it also sounds like it's so complicated. It sounds like it's not doable. It sounds like I wake up like for and for every one of my patients, we're assessing all of these different things and you know, like, literally that your, your sole day job has to be your health on that part. And I don't want people to feel that way. I think that there are things like you can bite into an apple and if an apple does not taste sweet enough to you, we know that we need to look at your sweet taste buds and we need to work on that part. Giving you the tools to be able to do that. That's just like, that's the only thing that I then want you to focus on. I don't want you to do like all these other things. Now it might illuminate for us that you actually have a digestive issue and we need to work on the digestive issue. But it also might just tell me that like you're getting in. You want me to use my free basic. You're getting it. You're free. Basing monk fruit or stevia. And instead you should just be like eating whole foods and not like, you know, and reducing your amount of non nutritive sweeteners or for God's sakes, like having a little bit of sugar if you wanted to have something that was, you know, sweet on that part.
- [75:01]
B
I think what's making us all crazy and sick.
- [75:04]
A
Yeah.
- [75:04]
B
Is the fact that we're all, we're all hyper focused on health and being and living until 150. And this whole longevity trend.
- [75:14]
A
Yeah.
- [75:15]
B
Is become like, it's overkill at this point. Like the stress that people info obesity. Like, we're just in obesity. Right.
- [75:22]
A
100 on information.
- [75:26]
B
Like, too much information. I can't take it anymore. With all the different people are wearing the glucose monitors and the sleep trackers and the. And. And they're like. And the beds that are cooling or not cooling and they're. They're tracking or they feel like they.
- [75:42]
A
Can'T be healthy because they can't afford that and their healthcare premiums just doubled and they. Between that and paying for their kids to have shoes, and they're sitting there feeling like I'm like. Like I can't be healthy. And that's totally inappropriate. So, you know, we have to intervene on that part and recognize, like, look, if you want to be entertained by nutrition and health, like, great. But if you are obsessive compulsive about it, it is not better for you than like anything else on that part. And, and too often with all the different wearables and everything else that we're tracking, we're doing a great job of data collection, but we're actually not doing a great job of healing and actually taking some data and being like, hey, can I. Like, I can do as much with an apple as somebody can do with 2,700 labs and all of these other things on that part. And I think that's where the rubber needs to meet. The road. We really, really come back to this is why a quality dietitian, nutritionist, somebody, you know to work with who can help you put your plan together is going to be, in my opinion, better on that part.
- [76:46]
B
Agreed. Yeah. I mean, I just think. I think everything has just become overkill at this point.
- [76:51]
A
It has been.
- [76:51]
B
And people just do a little bit. It's better than doing nothing.
- [76:54]
A
Yeah.
- [76:54]
B
Progress is better.
- [76:55]
A
Like, could you agree to take glutamine for six weeks?
- [76:58]
B
I mean, I can try.
- [76:59]
A
I mean, before you get any labs drawn.
- [77:01]
B
I know. Five. That's more. Because I was so curious. And this, they're like, this program is super stealth. And yeah, I was very. Like, there's, there's. They're like the people that are doing.
- [77:12]
A
It belong to be stealth.
- [77:13]
B
Yeah, I know, but very dialed in. Yeah, I know it sounds very excessive and like, I haven't actually gotten my blood done for a while, so. But I'm actually concerned and kind of like.
- [77:21]
A
Okay. But also, let me, Let me say this for anyone who is thinking about getting their blood work done and Spending the money and thinking about whether you're spending the money or not. If you know that you have just been through a period of a big health issue, a big stress issue, a big life change, like maybe you were just traveling a ton or anything else like that. Give your body a month or two, at minimum, a month of good recovery and taking your nutrition and doing those things. Otherwise we know right now that your body does not have what it needs to run better because of everything one has been through and all your lab tests. It's gonna be expensive. And it's as my medical medium said, you're gonna give away your immune system with that blood work and you're gonna come back and the recommendations are gonna be to do all of these things. And it's because we haven't healed your body to a certain extent. So my advice, always before you invest in the lab test. Whether it's the gut test, whether it's the blood test, it's anything else do. That's why I put a 30 day tune up in here. Do the 30 days. In some degree you don't have to do it perfect. Better not perfect. And then get your labs done after that. So maybe take your glutamine for like four weeks and then do the blood work.
- [78:32]
B
Oh, no, I'm actually. Yeah.
- [78:33]
A
Momentous. Let's get it. They should send it to you.
- [78:34]
B
Okay, I'm sending it to both of us. I will.
- [78:37]
A
I'm going to call them Momentous. Get on it.
- [78:38]
B
It's the best brand.
- [78:39]
A
And by the way, it doesn't like, I love them like, it does not have to be a momentous. And please don't buy things on Amazon. But that's a whole other story.
- [78:45]
B
That's a whole other story. But I will say I like Momentous for many reasons. But they are, they're third party tested. I really like. I know the guys there. Their quality is, I think, bar none.
- [78:57]
A
I use from Ortho molecular, I use from metagenics, I use from pure encapsulations. I mentioned perc, like there. It does not have to be one brand. And I like Momentous. What I would say about glutamine is wherever possible, I think you should use the powdered form rather than trying to do capsules on that part.
- [79:13]
B
I'm going to try to get that.
- [79:15]
A
Could you do four weeks before you get your blood work done?
- [79:17]
B
Well, I better start like four weeks ago. Next couple days.
- [79:22]
A
All right, just, it's worth, it's worth calling up and being like, hey, quick.
- [79:24]
B
Reschedule I think that might have to happen. Okay.
- [79:27]
A
Yes.
- [79:27]
B
Ashley. Cough, my dear. I love her. She's great. She's a friend.
- [79:31]
A
She's has no opinion.
- [79:32]
B
She's got zero opinion. She's like, on the fence on everything.
- [79:35]
A
That's right.
- [79:36]
B
Her book is called your best shot.
- [79:37]
A
I'm on your fence.
- [79:38]
B
Yeah, my fence. The book is called your best shot. Ashley is very wise, very smart, and like I said, said, I've spoken to a million dietitians. You are by far one of the most well, like, informed I've ever met. And also you. You explain things very well. Thank you. Although. Explain things very well, but at length. I mean, maybe we couldn't just, like, make it a little bit shorter.
- [80:03]
A
I really wanted. I mean, I wanted to take you through the. The whole pathway on that, but, yeah, the oversimplification can be. I get it. I'm not. Probably not. Not designed for the modern age of 30 second clips.
- [80:13]
B
No, no, no. What are you talking about? They're a minute now. Minute 30 sometimes.
- [80:19]
A
I probably need a few more magic mics for that. Is it magic mics?
- [80:23]
B
Magic mic? Where's your. Your mind's in the gutter. I wish. I wish Tatum or Chani, whatever his name, would be hanging out here. All right, guys, have a good one.
- [80:31]
A
Bye. Thank you. Shoot.