Episode 547: James Dumoulin: The Kid Who Built an 8-Figure Business By Asking Billionaires How Much They Make

Summary

Podcast Summary: Habits and Hustle with Jen Cohen

Episode 547: James Demoulian – The Kid Who Built an 8-Figure Business by Asking Billionaires How Much They Make

Date: April 21, 2026
Host: Jen Cohen
Guest: James Demoulian, Founder – School of Hard Knocks

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jen Cohen sits down with 23-year-old entrepreneur James Demoulian, creator and host of "School of Hard Knocks." James is renowned for his no-nonsense street interviews with ultra-wealthy individuals and billionaires, asking them about their earnings and mindset. With over 22 million followers, 48 billionaire interviews, and an eight-figure business, James unpacks how viral content is built, how he turned watch-time into a major business, his crash course in surviving platform algorithms, and the secrets learned straight from billionaire mentors. The conversation covers personal branding, the real economics of the creator economy, maintaining brand integrity, and keys to executing at scale.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Growth of School of Hard Knocks

• Early Influences:

  • Grew up in South Korea in a military family, exposed to international cultures young (“You can only grow to what you're exposed to.” – [02:26])
  • Work ethic established early—worked multiple jobs during high school.

• TikTok Beginnings:

  • Entered TikTok in 2019 (“People thought there was something wrong with you if you were a dude posting on TikTok.” – [02:50])
  • Grew a personal brand to 800,000 followers fast by embracing short-form, viral video content.

• Initial Business Pivot:

  • Started as three young guys giving business advice; realized “nobody gives a shit about 3 young 20 year old kids giving business advice.” Pivoted to becoming a medium for billionaire advice, democratizing insight for a younger generation ([04:50]).
  • “Our first big interview was billionaire Mark Cuban. Since then we've interviewed 48 billionaires... 22 million followers.” – [05:55]

---

2. The Viral Formula

• Virality Breakdown:

  • “The only metric on social media that matters... is watch time. That's the only thing platforms care about.” – [06:45]
  • Importance of a hook: “The first 3–5 seconds have to be incredibly scroll-stopping. A hook has to be strong, maybe a little controversial, a pattern interrupt.” – [07:00]
  • Editing mastery: condense 20 minutes down to 1–3 minutes of pure engagement.

• Most Viral Moment:

  • 106 million Instagram views: Interview with Myron Golden. “He's a business consultant from Tampa... He’s just got some aura, some game for people, talking about money.” – [09:11]
  • “Best brands in the world are superheroes: They stand for and against something. You cannot play in the middle.” – [10:43]

---

3. Platform Strategy & Revenue Realities

• Cross-Platform Nuances:

  • “Facebook pays me more than YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok combined.” – [14:42]
  • “Content diversification is huge... you have to put your content on every platform.” – [14:31]
  • Test, test, test: What works on one platform may flop on another.

• Business Structure:

  • “Great businessmen are terrible content creators. Great content creators are terrible businessmen.” – [17:47]
  • Never rely only on ad revenue—platforms own your content and can cut you off (“We were making all our money off ad revenue... got an unoriginal content violation for our own content... went from $30k/month to $5k/month overnight.” – [19:38])
  • Vertical integration: started an agency, launched a community, combined content with product and services ([21:30])

• On Brand Equity:

  • “Nothing can dilute the brand. Brand equity is the most important thing as a content creator.” – [23:27]
  • Avoids “quick cash grabs” that could erode long-term trust (“Long-term thinking over short-term profits.” – [24:46])

---

4. Relationship Building & Interview Techniques

• Securing Big Guests:

  • “You have to cut the middleman. If you can go to the decision maker, go to the decision maker at all costs.” – [31:08]
  • Mark Cuban story: emailed directly, Cuban responded in seconds and appeared next day.
  • Tom Cruise came through Paramount, but Tom specifically requested an interview after seeing content ([32:19]).

• Interview Approach:

  • Handles both arranged and organic interviews—about 50/50 ([37:46]).
  • “Objection handling has been one of my superpowers—being able to get people that didn’t want to talk to talk.” – [38:20]
  • The tension and challenge improve viewer retention—show rejections to build anticipation ([39:02]).

---

5. Monetization & Communities

• Revenue Streams:

  • Multiple verticals: content, marketing agency, subscription community (“School of Mentors”), consulting arm.
  • Community model: $49/month for access to live calls with 8–10 figure entrepreneurs.
  • “We’re giving people access for the price of a couple sub sandwiches a month.” – [68:17]

• On Masterminds/Charlatans:

  • “Vet the people teaching—make sure they’ve actually done it.” – [69:39]
  • “A lot of people selling info have never done it themselves. You have to be extremely discerning.” – [70:52]

---

6. Mindsets & Lessons from Billionaires

• Key Themes from Billionaires:

  • “Billionaires think in decades, not days. All have such a long term vision.” – [79:46]
  • “Macro patience and micro urgency: patience for long-term, urgency day to day.” – [80:56]
  • “They respond instantly if they care.” – [82:10]

• James’ Go-To Questions/Lessons:

  • “If a bird lands on a branch, does the bird trust the branch or trust its wings? You have to trust your wings.” – [54:33], citing Billy Ray Taylor’s mom.
  • “When you're born, you look like your parents, but when you die, you look like your decisions.” – [55:33], quoting filmmaker Six King.
  • “Credibility kills all bad attitudes.” – [56:27]
  • “People will take you places that money can't.” – [57:37]

---

7. Operations: Team, Editing, and Delegating

• Roles:
  • James edits every short-form video because of his perfectionism and deep sense for virality: “I edit every short-form video... it's hours. But I know what works.” – [61:07]
  • Team of 70 across content, agency, and service verticals; partners handle backend, product, and marketing.
  • “No one is good at everything—you have to surround yourself with people who are.” – [60:07]

---

8. Brand Expansion & Future Vision

• Next Moves:
  • Expanding School of Hard Knocks into verticals: Hard Knocks Women, Hard Knocks Business ([84:45]).
  • “I want to build one of the biggest media companies in the world... just keep growing more channels under the Hard Knocks umbrella.” – [84:45]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Virality

“The only metric on social media that matters is watch time. You have to hook them in the first three to five seconds.”
– James Demoulian [06:45]

On Creator/Business Relationship

“Great businessmen are terrible content creators. Great content creators are terrible businessmen.”
– James Demoulian [17:47]

On Monetization

“Do not bank on your ad revenue as your only way to make money. The platforms own your content, not you.”
– James Demoulian [17:47]

On Brand Dilution

“Nothing can dilute the brand... Brand equity is the most important thing as a content creator.”
– James Demoulian [23:27]

On Connections

“You have to cut the middleman. Go to the decision maker at all costs.”
– James Demoulian [31:08]

On Competition

“I just want to crush them." [on copycat creators] “If they can't come up with their own spin, they're going to hit a ceiling.”
– James Demoulian [52:25 / 54:00]

On Billionaire Mindset

“Billionaires think in decades, not days. Macro patience, micro urgency.”
– James Demoulian [79:46 / 80:56]

On Execution

“Most people are addicted to education, but allergic to execution... Information can change situations, but only through implementation.”
– James Demoulian [63:41]

On Advice

“Never take advice from someone you wouldn’t trade places with.”
– Will Smith via James [54:33]

On Teamwork

“You have to find your weakness in business...You shouldn't even want to be good at everything. Surround yourself with people who are.”
– James Demoulian [60:07]

---

Practical Takeaways

For Content Creators

• Focus on watch time: your hook and retention are everything.
• Diversify platforms—test content everywhere, as performance varies.
• Have multiple revenue streams; don't rely solely on ads.
• Protect your brand equity. Avoid quick cash that dilutes long-term value.
• Be obsessive about quality and methodical with your message.

For Entrepreneurs

• Relationships and proximity are as valuable as capital; "People will take you places that money can't."
• Think long-term; resist immediate gratification.
• Macro patience for vision, micro urgency day-to-day.
• Respond fast, be accessible—speed wins.
• Build teams around complementary skillsets.

For Aspiring Interviewers/Connectors

• Cut through gatekeepers when possible; direct connections are the fastest path.
• Polite persistence and a willingness to ask are critical.
• Organic interactions (street interviews) often outperform arranged ones for authenticity and virality.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | James’ Background & TikTok Start | [02:26–06:15] | | The Viral Formula | [06:45–11:33] | | Myron Golden’s Interview / What Makes Views Blow Up | [09:11–12:36] | | Cross-Posting/Platform Differences | [12:36–15:57] | | Monetization Pitfalls & Brand Equity | [17:16–24:46] | | Handling Brand Deals & Sponsorships | [24:48–27:32] | | Relationship Building, Mark Cuban & Tom Cruise Stories | [28:31–35:25] | | Arranged vs Organic Interviews, On-the-Street Tactics | [37:40–43:22] | | Masterclasses, Community Model, Vetting Coaches | [67:02–72:25] | | Lessons from Billionaires: Patience, Speed, Vision | [79:46–83:08] | | Operational Partnerships & Editing Insight | [60:07–63:34] | | Scaling the Brand: New Verticals, Hard Knocks Women | [84:41–85:46] |

---

Closing Moments

• Jen and James discuss generational mindset differences, business advice for midlife entrepreneurs, and potential for future collaboration.
• James teases new expansion with Hard Knocks Women and new business verticals, seeking to build a media empire.

---

Follow James Demoulian and the School of Hard Knocks:
YouTube | Instagram | TikTok | Facebook | LinkedIn | And new verticals including Hard Knocks Women

---

Final Words:

“You have to trust your wings. You never know who’s watching. Credibility kills all bad attitudes.”—James Demoulian [54:33 / 56:27]

---

Transcript

[James Demoulian]

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[Jen Cohen]

Welcome to Habits and Hustle with me, Jen Cohen, where we break down the mindsets and strategies behind extraordinary success. And today I'm talking to someone you've definitely seen, even if you don't know him by name. It's James Demoulian. He is the 23 year old behind School of Hard Knocks, known for walking up to people in Rolexes and G wagons and asking one simple question. How much money do you make? He's interviewed 48 billionaires, built a following of over 22 million, and created an eight figure business before most people his age even have a career. But what you don't see going viral almost broke him. In this episode, we get into how he built it, nearly lost it, and what he learned from the world's most successful people, including the one quick question you should start asking today. So let's dive in. Okay? You guys are super. I'm. I am like a giddy school girl with you. I really, I. It really is like I'm, I could be your mother, but yet I'm so excited to sit here with you because you've done such a phenomenal job at building just, just building a brand, building a media or on your way of building a media empire. I'm sitting here with the school of hard knocks, James Dumalin. Right. Like, sweating. I thought I was going to get that wrong. Who I really, as you can see, I genuinely love your content. I love what you've done. I'm sure you get stopped a thousand times a day. Do you get stopped a thousand times?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, we get. It doesn't matter where we are at this point. Whether we're here in Los Angeles or we were in London last week, Dubai, all over. It's cool to see, like, how the international presence has really grown. Grown beyond just like locally, where we live in Austin, Texas.

[Jen Cohen]

It's amazing. Can you please just start off like, let's just get the evolution right because you're 23 years old, right? You went to the University of Austin, you live in Austin. You work with your brother and another partner. You have three of you guys. Correct? How did this whole concept come to be and how have you, like, grown it? So expedite like you've grown it. Like, the, the trajectory I feel is just like you're on a rocket ship still. Tell us about it 100%.

[James Demoulian]

Well, we can go back to 6 years old. I was living in South Korea, so from ages 6 to 10, I lived in South Korea, grew up in a military family. My dad ran the largest overseas military base in the entire world. And I like to start there because that was really important for me and my brother, who's also one of my co founders in the channel. Because at an early age, just being exposed to so many different cultures, seeing the world, like, I like to say, you can only grow to what you're exposed to. And it kind of just made us think a lot bigger and it gave us such more of like a worldly perspective. And it was instilled in us our entire life growing up. Eventually kind of grew up in the D.C. virginia area and, you know, high school, worked two jobs. I worked at Chick Fil a and I worked construction. Those were my two jobs. However, in 2019, pretty much my senior year of high school, right before going to College, I discovered TikTok. And if you can remember 2019, when TikTok really first started to get popular, nobody was taking it seriously at the time. It was the dancing app. Like, if you were a dude posting on TikTok, people were thinking that there was something wrong with you. But however, I was looking at it way differently than everybody else because with TikTok, you could have 50 followers, you could have 500 followers, and you could put out a piece of content and overnight 4 million people could see that type of content. That didn't exist before TikTok. Like the whole Instagram reels, Facebook reels, that's thanks to TikTok. Like, TikTok is what engineered and really, you know, brought up short form content. So I just, I got fascinated with it. That was my entry into content was like learning about TikTok. And I just started a personal brand on TikTok, which I grew from zero to 800,000 followers in about 10 months, all over 2020. So during COVID when all my peers were at home watching movies, eating snacks, I definitely partook in that as well. But I went all in on TikTok. I mean, it didn't matter where I was. I could have been on a train, I could have been on a plane, I could have been on a boat. I posted every day on my personal brand on TikTok. This was not the school of hard knocks. This was not business content. This was me just making a bunch of content for the sake of going viral. And I had built a sizable brand on there. But I learned that one skill in that process of like, understanding viral content, understanding the algorithm, what, what actually goes viral. So then Fast forward to 2021. All right, I was a freshman at the University of Texas. And you know, the thing about growing up in the D.C. area, it's a very structured city, right? When you think about dc, you think of politics, you think about government jobs, federal agencies. I like to touch on, you know, growing up overseas and traveling so much. Growing up I wanted more for myself than like a hundred thousand dollars government contracting job. So I kind of always had it instilled in me that I was going to do my own thing. I was kind of meant for more than just kind of being trapped in a cubicle. So my brother and a childhood friend of ours who we were all in the same boy Scout troupe with, all became Eagle Scouts together. We're like, let's start a business media channel. Why? The one common passion we all had was business. And the creator economy at the time was a multi hundred billion dollar industry. So we're like, let's just start a business media channel. And so we initially started out and it was just the three of us making content about business. But there's an important lesson there is because we came to that realization like why? Why the hell are we making content about business giving business advice? Nobody gives a shit about 3 young 20 year old kids giving business advice. We could pivot and really take this thing to the next level. If we are the medium to the most successful people across different industries. Entrepreneurs, people in finance, tech, real estate. And what if we're the one to extract their knowledge, their insights and be able to pass that on to our generation? Just pretty much democratize advice from the most successful people in the world. Which is exactly what we did. So we ended up pivoting to the the interviews. Our first big interview was billionaire Mark Cuban. And since then we've interview viewed 48 billionaires. We've grown it to an eight figure business. We have 22 million followers now across everything and we do about 200 to 250 million views a month. So I know that there's probably a lot to unpack there, but I feel like that was kind of just like the progression. I like to give that backstory. So that way people know it just wasn't an overnight thing. Because it definitely wasn't.

[Jen Cohen]

No, it wasn't. But you're obviously, you're really good at creating viral content. You said you know what goes viral. So before I unpack all of that because I have a million questions that I can just jump off of from everything you just said. What does go viral in your, in your opinion? Because you know, you interview people right A lot of people interview a lot of successful people. What do you think you do differently that makes it like get traction and stick to, then grow to what you've grown to?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. I think one of the things that we are the best in the world at, the school of hard knocks is taking 20 minutes of content and condensing it down to the most engaging one to three minutes worth of content for us to show off to the world. I think the first most important thing that people need to understand is this right here, the only metric on social media that matters, the only thing that the platforms care about. It's not likes, it's not shares, it's not shaves, it's not saves, it's not comments, it is watch time. That is the only metric on social media that matters. Why do you think that is? Because Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and YouTube, LinkedIn, they're all doing one thing they are competing with against one another to keep people on their platform longer watching content. So therefore, if you can create content that people watch longer than on average than other videos, they're going to reward you by pushing your content to more people. So that's the number one thing that we optimize our content for. So what makes a viral video? Well, number one, your first three to five seconds has to be incredibly scroll stopping. You have to get the people on the other end of that screen to. I like to say that I make content as if if a complete stranger were to see the, the piece of content that I'm posting, they could have no affiliation to me, they could have no idea who I am, they need to feel some sort of emotion, they need to be compelled to potentially share it with a friend. They need to be compelled to potentially save it, to watch it again later. Too often people make the mistake of making content with the assumption that people know who they are. Right? We've all seen the people that say, as you guys know from my last video, so as you guys know as I just closed this big, people do not care. They don't care at all. So like, even with 22 million followers, the first thing that I have instilled in me is that I'm still making content as if people have never seen my content before. So I'm still trying my hardest to make sure that the first three to five seconds are incredibly engaging. Whether that's me cold approaching a super wealthy person or asking a person how much money they make, like that is literally like your hook has to be so strong, it has to be a bull Take it has to be something maybe a little controversial. It has to be a pattern interrupt, something to stop the scroll. And then beyond that, we need to engineer some sort of retention. What's going to keep watching from start to finish, because if you have, like, nothing early on to get people to, like, want to watch, like, that's why in the first 10 to 15 seconds, I'm trying to build that person up, you know, they sold a company, they're a billionaire, like, whatever it may be to give that person watching some buying. So I always like to think about hook, you know, and retention is the way to really engineer the most optimal amount of watch time. When you're creating a piece of content.

[Jen Cohen]

Which one has been the most viral? Which person or which clip has been the most viral for you?

[James Demoulian]

Myron Golden. Do you know Myron Golden?

[Jen Cohen]

No.

[James Demoulian]

No. He's a gentleman From Tampa, Florida. 106 million views on Instagram alone. So that was my most viral video. 100 million views on Instagram alone. I've never. I didn't know. I didn't even know videos could get 100 million views.

[Jen Cohen]

Who is he?

[James Demoulian]

He's just a business consultant. He was getting out of a Rolls Royce. You know, he's a. A very sharp gentleman. And it was, it was, it was a great piece of content.

[Jen Cohen]

Well, what did you say to him? What was your hook? How did you get him? Was it. Was it arranged, like, you know, ahead of time? I want to know the whole thing a hundred percent.

[James Demoulian]

That one was arranged ahead of time. I was just in Florida for the sake of being in Florida to film content and had been in touch with him for a little while. He's a. He's a business consultant. Made 15 million in a year. And so it was just, I think all in all, the whole video itself, you know, we talked about, like, the faith component, you know, and it was, it was just. It was. It was a great video for sure.

[Jen Cohen]

Why do you think that went viral, though? Like that, to that point? Why do you think that video got 106 million and Tom Cruise didn't, for example?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, it. Well, because Tom Cruise. Everybody's seen Tom Cruise before, so Tom Cruise still, I mean, got 13 million views on Instagram, which is still a great video. But it's also like, I think that there's some element, a big reason why I think our stuff honestly goes viral, especially, like a lot of the unknown people. Like, we were even talking about somebody before the podcast started that got 40 or 50 million views that, like, from a, like, holistic. Like, countrywide standpoint. Like, people probably do not know who that person is unless you're in this specific space.

[Jen Cohen]

Exactly.

[James Demoulian]

So it's almost like they're discovering that person for the first time. And so here's this guy getting out of a beautiful Rolls Royce. He's got a great look to him. He's got some aura, and he just had some. Some game for people talking about money, talking about what separates middle class from wealthy people. So again, it was kind of something that was a little bit polarizing as well that we talked about. You know, I always like to say that the best personal brands in the world are superheroes because they fundamentally stand for and against something. Anytime people are. You cannot play in the middle. You have to be somewhat, like, polarizing to people. Right. So you're gonna have to understand that you may piss some people off, but ultimately, I mean, look at the most famous people in the world. It's like they have a lot of haters as well.

[Jen Cohen]

A hundred percent.

[James Demoulian]

So I think that that's really important as well.

[Jen Cohen]

What was your hook for him, though? I'm curious, because it did so well. You said your three to five seconds was the most. Is the most important for. For a clip. So what did you say to him in the first three to five seconds?

[James Demoulian]

I just walked up, I said, excuse me, sir, is this your Rolls Royce? And he goes, yeah, it's mine. And then. And you know, just asking him about kind of how he got a Rolls Royce, said he was a consultant, said he made $15 million in a year and went right into it. And that's honestly, like, really interesting too, because it's like, you know, you. You hear it, and also, if you see the video as well, I mean, it's, It's. It is a great piece of content. But, like, oftentimes, sometimes the videos that you don't necessarily expect to go the most viral, often, sometimes very, very well, can. Like, sometimes, like, we'll put hours into making, like, one clip, and we expect it to do millions of views, but it doesn't necessarily do that. So I would say we definitely have it down to a formula. And I think something that's like a really cool, fun fact is I have. We're in April. Today's April 1, 2026. The last video that I have posted on Instagram that has under 1 million views was April 2024. So two years ago was the last time I've posted a video on Instagram that has under a million views. So that's like my standard of content now is so damn high. Like, I will not put anything out there. Like, I don't care if I'm getting paid to do an interview. Like, if I don't think, if I don't know it can hit a million views, I'm not going to post it. I don't care.

[Jen Cohen]

That's amazing. So you have high standards now, Extremely high standards. But, like, do you find that what goes viral on Instagram for you doesn't go viral on YouTube and TikTok? Are all the platforms different or once you feel one thing is going to hit everywhere?

[James Demoulian]

Really, really good question. I think what we're going to see in the next coming years, next coming months with content, and it's already happened, is that it is no longer about audiences anymore. I can, I can name to you right now three of the biggest personal brands in the business space that have millions of followers across social media. They're getting like 20,000 views on average on their TikTok videos, which is insanity. I'm not going to air people out, but I'll show you after the podcast exactly what I'm talking about. And that is something that people need to be very mindful of. I think that the two that I like to compare the most is TikTok and Instagram. Instagram is a lot more about your audience, meaning, like our baseline on Instagram because we have almost 9 million followers, like, good chance over time, like, the video's gonna hit a million views. TikTok is your videos, when they get sent out, it goes out to cold audiences initially. So that's the best test, in my opinion, of somebody creating viral content, is them going viral on TikTok, because TikTok is not very audience and community focus. Yeah, it's hard to build a community on TikTok. It genuinely is. Like, people that have, like, a business and, like, are selling to their audience. TikTok is definitely the hardest platform to sell on, depending on what they're selling. Like, TikTok shops. Great.

[Jen Cohen]

I was going to ask you a TikTok shop.

[James Demoulian]

Excellent. But in terms of, like, if you've got like a marketing agency or like a subscription business per se for a various other product, like, it's a much harder business, much harder platform to sell on, for sure.

[Jen Cohen]

And also people who are big on TikTok aren't necessarily big on Instagram, I notice, or anything. Like, it doesn't translate all the time.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

So you're saying, though, your piece of advice is to see if a piece of content can go viral, start it or try it on TikTok first, because it's a cold audience.

[James Demoulian]

My piece of advice is beyond every single platform, content diversification is huge. Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn. I make more money off of Facebook than every other platform combined.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, everyone says that Facebook pays me

[James Demoulian]

more money than YouTube, Instagram and TikTok combined. It's insane. And that's. That's a. That's the beautiful thing about content as well, is that you're able to build different audiences and different communities from all different demographics and walks of life on these different platforms. And what happens if TikTok gets shut down? What happens if your Instagram gets banned? Well, then you at least can tap into different audiences on other platforms. Like, we have almost 5 billion followers on Facebook. We've got 6 million on TikTok, 9 million on Instagram, 2 million on YouTube. Like, and different audiences in, like, all walks of life. Like, we were talking earlier about, like, people stopping us. Like, I could be in the streets and somebody who's 14, 15 years old comes up to me or somebody who's 70 years old that watches our content. So I think that's a really fun thing and something that a lot of people don't tap. It's like they get hooked on just wanting to go all in on one or two platforms. Beyond everything, content diversification is very big. And to your point about testing one thing on one platform, there's times where I could post a video on TikTok that gets 2 million views, but that video gets 10 million views on Facebook. So sometimes you just don't even know. That's why I'm just a big advocate that, like, hey, if you genuinely love and believe in the content that you're posting, you remove your bias and say, hey, this is actually a good piece of content. Put it out there and just see what it performs on ultimately.

[Jen Cohen]

But do you think it's also a good idea to do different types of different pieces of content across the platforms or take the same piece of content and just post it on everything?

[James Demoulian]

I am a proponent of taking the same piece of content and posting it on everything. However, it also depends on the type of content you're making. So, like, I will say this not in a way of, like, my interviews, like, perform very well on all the platforms. However, if I'm somebody building a personal brand, I would lean into what exactly the platforms are telling you. So that's why, like, early on, I like to say quantity breeds quality. The more you post, the more data that you're going to get from the platforms that tell you, hey, you've tried these five different types of content, these pillars of content. Three of them are just not hitting, but these two are doing very well. Okay, let's double down. Let's 3x5x10x that winning type of content. The reason why we're doing interviews now, like interviews was probably the seventh or eighth type of content that we decided to do when we started School of Hard Knocks. But our first interview we posted got a hundred thousand views. So we're like, wait a minute, that's telling us something. Okay. And then the next one did well and like just consistently outperformed everything. And that's how we found our niche and that's how we found the type of content to create. So that's why I think it's very important for people that are trying to build a brand. It's like early on, test different formats, test different content pillars. Don't just do one, don't just do the talking head, right? Try the day in the life. Try the, you know, testimonials with your clients. Like, try different types of content and see what like really hits and resonates with people. And that's what you double down on and try and, you know, 10x, which is what we did.

[Jen Cohen]

Well, also you said something that's very important about the problem is when you're making content and you can get shut down on Facebook or Instagram and all this. I've been shut down. You, I mean, it happens to people all the time. And I heard you say, and I agree that if you should not be you, you should not be banking on your ad revenue as your only way to make money off of this. Can you talk about that? Because I think this is why. I think this is where influencers or people have a misconception and I think that's when people get really screwed.

[James Demoulian]

Yes, this is, this is golden right here. I like to say that great businessmen are terrible content creators. Great content creators are terrible businessmen. It's very, very true. I know so many good business guys that have hundreds of thousands of fake followers. It's, it's, it is ridiculous. It's, it's a, it's a pandemic is what it is. But anyways, yes, like, you cannot build a business off of ad revenue. Especially in our case. Like I have two other co founders. So imagine three people like trying to make their living off of just ad revenue. And I'll tell a quick story. So like you said, when you post a piece of content on Facebook or on Instagram or TikTok, you no longer own that content. The platform that you post on. They own that content that you're posting. And therefore they can decide whether they want to pay you or not or whether they want to give you a content violation or not. And that's what happened to us. About a year into the school of hard knocks. This is now like 2022. We were making all of our money off of ad revenue. We weren't super business savvy, but the one constant that we had going into hard knocks was we were, we knew how to go viral and that's why we were able to grow it, you know, so big is that's what we knew. So the business savviness came over time, especially when we learned this lesson was that we were making 25 to $30,000 a month off of Facebook. Now why were we making that much off of. Why were we making that much money off of Facebook? Because a lot of people don't know this. 2020 was the first year that Facebook stagnated, meaning Facebook stopped growing in 2020 because what came out, what got very popular in 2020? TikTok.

[Jen Cohen]

TikTok. Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

So because of that Facebook zoom. Yeah, so, so, so Facebook had to get very innovative with how they're going to get big creators to come on their platform. Like how do they get Mr. Beast, how do they get other creators that are, have massive presences and are taking advantage of the short form content everywhere? They have to start paying a little bit more money than these other, other platforms.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

So we got into this like Facebook reels bonuses program and we were making 25 to 30 thousand dollars a month for six months. But again I, we put out a piece of content and we got like an unoriginal content violation for our own content. Boom. Went from making 30k a month with two co founders to less than $5,000 a month. That's. It's not, not livable off of 5k a month. Now granted, we understood and we took a lot of the advice that we were getting in building the school of hard knocks, which is that, you know, we were not dumb during those fir. During those months of making 30k a month, we were probably paying ourselves as co founders $2,000 a month. The rest of the money was just going back into the business before we even had like actual businesses. We were just at like just paying the company. We were just building a like, like a bank account for our business before we even have like businesses now. But that was a very valuable thing was reinvesting. That was a recurring thing that we kept hearing, reinvest back into your business. But the money, when you start making profit, goes back into the business, which is what we did. And that's why when we went from making 25 to $30,000 a month in ad revenue down to less than 5k a month off of like TikTok and the other platforms that were paying us a little bit, like that's what had kept us afloat, was doing that. But we learned the lesson that it's like, guys, in order for us to really be successful, we have to become businessmen and not just content creators. And so we got really savvy with like understanding this idea of. Probably one of my favorite business concepts in the world is vertical integration. So I remember interviewing a gentleman named Cody Sperber. I don't know if that name rings a bell. Okay. He's based in Scottsdale, Arizona. It's got several, you know, multiple eight figure businesses. And I remember him talking about that. A great businessman looks at their business and looks at number one, who's making money off their efforts and the different ways that they can be making money. So when you take a look at school of hard knocks, our core business is content. We're going viral, recording attention. And we, we understood that that was our skill set, that was our superpower. So then we decided, well, hey, what is a business that we could launch? Well, who are we spending the most of our time with creating content? It's all these super wealthy entrepreneurs. So let's start a marketing agency where we build their personal brands. Boom. Built that into a multi million dollar business. Then we're like, okay, why do people follow us? Because we give them access to, to the top 1% of people on our videos. What if we launch a community where they can ask their questions to them? Boom, launch that, turn that into a multimillion dollar business. And so that is honestly what I think is very like valuable. Right there is if you're a content creator, if you're making content number one, why do you got to get to the root of why people follow? You see, the mistake content creators make though, is when they do want to launch a business, they're like, I want to launch a coffee company because it's cool, or I want to watch, I want to launch a merch company. Talk to your customer like, this is in any business that you're in. But especially as a content creator, like spend a couple weeks, spend a month, spend more like polling your audience exactly what they want. That's exactly what we did when we launched our subscription community was get to the exact root of why people follow us and what it is that they want. If we were able to kind of put this community together. And so that's what we did. Right. But you have to get savvy at least some degree to as with, with business as a content creator or it's worthy to go and find partners or somebody that is very credible and knowledgeable in the space that can attach your attention to revenue. Because if not, if you're just banking on ad revenue, you know, like we said, it is very common that at some point you're going to get demonetized and you have to be ready for that.

[Jen Cohen]

Well, also, it's not like ever guaranteed. Like also like if you're what you were really good at. And I never really, I think from my recollection is you didn't take easy money though. Like I'm sure a lot of brands and companies like crypto and all these things threw a lot of shit at you. And you could have easily taken 100,000, 200,000 and kind of, kind of like I think major brand water down, you would have watered down school of hard knocks because you've had, you basically would be a walking billboard for other people. I never saw you do that. Was that intentional?

[James Demoulian]

To 1 million percent the most important decision that we made and any business decision that we make to this day still is nothing can dilute the brand. Your brand equity is the most important thing as a content creator. And we see so often, you know, people will take that sponsorship like, like, like I won't do a sponsorship. You know what's funny is I ironically, you know, I think I did an integration one time with like prize picks for like, like a YouTube integration. Right? Because everybody says gambling companies, they pay more than everybody else. And I remember doing, we did an integration with them and I remember like just seeing some like the feedback and I was like, you know what, we're never going to do that again because it's like we're financial literacy channel and it's like it does not make any sense for us to, to work or promote with those types of businesses. And you have to, you have to understand that. And so the brand equity piece is extremely important. Like the fast, quick, temporary money. Even though it may seem great, it's going to dilute where you want to go long term. Like I your long term thinking. You have to prioritize long term thinking over short term profits. If you Want to build something great, if you're in it to get like a quick cash grab, then, you know, I still wouldn't recommend it. But it just, it was a very important decision for us to always, with every decision that we make, to not attach ourselves to something that was going to like, dilute our brand equity in any way.

[Jen Cohen]

Do you promote any brands? Do you have any brand deals?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, we do.

[Jen Cohen]

We do.

[James Demoulian]

We, we will do a couple million bucks in brand sponsorships this year. So we've, you know, worked with an array of different companies in the business space.

[Jen Cohen]

I don't think I've ever seen one.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, like, we've done like business formation, like entity structure companies. We've done, you know, various investment platforms. Just closed a big one with a really big company. I don't want to say. I'll tell you off the record, I'll tell you out there, just, just because like we just closed it and our first integration will be with them this month. But we have definitely done. So we've done like go high level, you know, so we've done quite a few, you know, different integrations with different companies and stuff like that.

[Jen Cohen]

I'm surprised, like Chase or like bank of America or, you know, I don't know, like one of those companies or Visa, MasterCard, American Express. Those are ones I would think would make a really. It would make a smart type of. Are you laughing because it's one of those, like the ones you're going to make it do a deal with?

[James Demoulian]

No, I mean, I would say, I would say the one that we are like just closed and we're going to probably start doing integrations with this month is, is like a very, very big company. But, you know, hey, there's an opportunity for them then if they want to, you know, kind of come partner with us.

[Jen Cohen]

Those make sense like that to me, makes sense. Would you do something like that?

[James Demoulian]

100%, absolutely. I'm sure it'll happen eventually as well. Just a matter of, you know, the right brand and right timing for them and also for us as well. So.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay, so then dilution. So is it. Are you saying that most. Are you saying that as you're growing, you shouldn't be diluting your brand, but once you're established, it's okay to kind of collaborate and become brand partners with someone at a different level or depending on what the deal structure is.

[James Demoulian]

I don't think that it's diluting your brand. Even if you're bigger, if you're partnering up with companies and having them Sponsor your content.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh, no, that's what I'm saying. Powered by Chase today or something. That makes sense 100%.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. If you know what it is, is if it is a brand that is obviously very credible and what they're ultimately, you know, solving. I would also think from a brand standpoint, why would they want to like kind of sponsor somebody that, where there's not like a, like, like a good brand tie or like, like a good fit for them. Right. Like they ultimately know the audiences that make the most sense for them and because of the type of content that you're integrating it in. So like that's my number one rule is like, remember how I told you that like even all the sponsorships that I've done in the last like one or two years, I've probably done you know, 10 to 20 like short form integrations for like sponsored like short form videos. They've all gotten at least a million views. So like I still have to make sure that like when I integrate it, like it can do well and like I can just easily kind of like weave it into the content in a way where I'm communicating some of the talking points on behalf of the brand. But it also like again, doesn't dilute the content. So it could be like a very smooth. I can ask a business question in relation to whatever that brand or company is and I can, you know, have it fit in in like a very efficient way. Yes, absolutely.

[Jen Cohen]

So that's why probably I never noticed it because it was like subliminal and subtle.

[James Demoulian]

Yes.

[Jen Cohen]

And I never even noticed that you did. That was very clever. Or you can also be putting it on your other channels like the. Is it the School of Mentors or the school what you. What's the other one? School of Mentors. And what's the other one that you do now? You said yes, so.

[James Demoulian]

So School of Hard Knocks is the main channel. School of Mentors is like our subscription community where we host the calls with the millionaires and billionaires. School of Content is like one of our like consulting companies where we work with a lot of entrepreneurs and so and then we have Hard Knocks, like agency or like our done for you sort of business.

[Jen Cohen]

So okay, where I think you're very clever. And what I, what I really appreciate is that most people are really good. Not most, nobody's good at like a very few are really good at like this, the front facing. But what you done really well, you and your partners, then you've created businesses and leverage what you're good at. With the content, with the billionaires and millionaires and utilize them to create money and monetize on that afterwards.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

So your execution is really, really strong on that. So two things. Once you're in there, is it your. Are your. Is your job to be so likable and that they're. And that you're going to go for the ask, like, hey, I'm in this community. Will you, you know, lend your time, like, how did you get all these people to agree to be, you know, involved for free to like talk to your other company because you're making money off of it? They're not making money.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, yeah. I mean really, like again, we lead with a ton of value with the relationship. So like 100. All these people that are coming on calls, I've already posted them on our channel and gotten them millions of views.

[Jen Cohen]

Right.

[James Demoulian]

So in that case, I feel like. Well, number one, it's also important to, I feel like note that, you know, some of the most successful, some of the wealthiest people in the world that I know, they're the most willing to help and give back.

[Jen Cohen]

I totally agree with.

[James Demoulian]

You know what I mean?

[Jen Cohen]

Oh my God. I totally agree with you because we've interviewed a lot of the same, same people and I'm always blown away that the people who are the most successful are usually the, like the nicest, the most down to earth. Let me just tell you a quick story about Mark, because I don't. Mark Cuban was your first big gat. You told me Mark Cuban. And I tell this to everybody. First of all, he came to my interview to the podcast in like a beat up Lexus. He wasn't driving some fancy ass car like all these other nobodies who think that, who pretend to be big, who, you know, who show up here with like 97 people in their entourage. He came by himself in a beat up car and I emailed him the. I guess a couple nights prior. I met him. I just. What you did? I went up to him at an event. I was like, oh my God, blah, blah, blah. Come on my podcast. He said he was going to. A month passes never happened. Two months passes never happened. So finally like month three, I emailed him and I said, hey, you know, you said you're going to come on my podcast. When is this happening? And he wrote me back in like three seconds and he says, I'll be there tomorrow, you know what time? And he actually showed up the next day and did my podcast.

[James Demoulian]

What city was it in?

[Jen Cohen]

It was here. He was sitting where you're sitting right now. And I met him in like I don't know where, somewhere, I don't remember where. And he was, he lives in Dallas. So he was in Dallas. He flew in and he came on the show. But my point is there was no, there was no like nine layers to get to. It was like I had to go through 77 publicists and four gatekeepers and it was like, let's do it in like 2020.

[James Demoulian]

By the way. That's the worst thing in the world right there.

[Jen Cohen]

Once that happens, I'm out. I don't care. I don't want them anymore.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, yeah. And this is a valuable lesson as well. You have to cut the middleman. Oh, you have to go. If you can go to the decision maker, go to the decision maker at all costs.

[Jen Cohen]

At all costs. Once I see more than one person on that email, I'm like, okay, I'm out. I'm not doing this because it's going to be. It's more headache than it's worth. Usually, you know, the, it's not worth the squeeze. The juice is not worth the squeeze. I mean that's why I find it so interesting when I, when I saw that he was your first get because.

[James Demoulian]

And yeah, I cold approached him. Just went up to him.

[Jen Cohen]

Exactly.

[James Demoulian]

And, and like that's the whole thing as well is like, like this whole concept of like, don't get me wrong, like if I have the opportunity to interview like a Tom Cruise or Will Smith or like, like a big person, I will, but like I will say there's nothing better than people just doing it. And, and it's. If you don't have to go through, like you said, the 15 people. That's not talked about enough. But it's very true. It's the worst thing in the world.

[Jen Cohen]

It's the worst because people only see what you put in front of them. They don't know what happens behind the scenes. And like some of these things are like, like, like you were saying. And I always say there's no such thing as like an overnight anything. Right. Everything even to get to that point, to even have that good experience, you had to put in a lot of hours and work in the, in the back end. But like, you know the fact that I even heard with Tom Cruise that he came to you, you didn't even go to him. So what was that process? Like, how did that happen?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, we got reached out to by Paramount pretty much and they were just like, hey, you know, Tom Cruise has a movie coming out and he's doing a couple interviews. They had him doing People magazine, Jimmy Fallon, I think he did Pat McAfee and School of Hard Knocks. So it's pretty damn cool because, you know, you would. You don't really ever see him in a setting like that. Like, he doesn't do a lot of like, interviews. And so when it came time to do the interview, you know, we were meeting some of the Paramount executives or some of the people that were kind of working on behalf of the interview, setting it up and corresponding with. I just kind of asked him out of curiosity, how did you guys find out about us? Like anytime, like we're reached out to by like a pretty well known figure, I was like, to kind of like, know how they found out about us and maybe like why they wanted to do it. And they said, well, it was actually Tom's idea. So I guess Tom had seen quite a bit of our content for quite some time. I think he maybe had a nephew or something like that that had showed him the channel. I mean, this is what I had heard from them and they reached out and wanted to do it. So it's, that's a great reminder also to people that. To never be afraid to post your content because you never know who's watching.

[Jen Cohen]

Never.

[James Demoulian]

You never know who's watching. I mean, it's, it's the amount of people that I've like met that are, you know, you know, several billionaires that I had no idea that are just like watching our content and told me that like, hey, they like this clip or whatnot. They like my approach here. It's, it's really cool to, to see that. That's why you can't be afraid to post your content.

[Jen Cohen]

Absolutely. So how. Okay, so was there a lot of hoopla around the Tom Cruise one, like to get it organized and, and all

[James Demoulian]

the things, man, I don't, you know, it was definitely, I'm sure that. So I'll never forget this. They asked me to like kind of submit some questions in advance.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

And I submitted, you know, 10 questions and they told me that I could only ask him three. And then when it came time to the day of the interview, they, they came and said, hey, by the way, we only want you to ask him two questions. We want you to ask him these two. And I'm thinking to myself, because don't get me wrong, like, this is an incredible opportunity, but you and I both know two questions is not a damn interview.

[Jen Cohen]

No.

[James Demoulian]

Okay. And like, don't get me wr, like, as Much as I understand, like, yes, this is Tom Cruise. We also have a standard of content to uphold as well. And I'm like, two questions isn't really going to be a great thing for our channel. Like, we need to be able to find a way to make this thing longer. So it's kind of funny. I told my partners or, you know, my, you know, business partners who I was there with down in San Antonio, because that's where we did Tom Cruise. I was like, guys, I'm going to just keep firing questions. I need you to like distract the team and like just kind of have a conversation to them off to the side. Because I was like, man, I'm going to just keep firing questions and I hope he just keeps on answering, which is exactly what it was. We only initially had like a couple minutes and I think it ended up being like an 8 or 8 or like a 10 minute interview, which is cool. Like that's all I need for my, you know, format. Right?

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

So ended up making it work, but kind of one of those things where it's, it's. What's that saying? Sarah Blakely, she told me that is don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness. Exactly. So when I saw them starting to go, we need to wrap it up, I'm just, I'm just like, man, I'm gonna just keep on going. And it's like the end of the day, it's for their benefit, like, like I'm going to make the best piece of content with what you do. So it's kind of just one of those things where you sometimes you just got to just do those little things, you know.

[Jen Cohen]

Listen, the ask for forgiveness is my. I live by that motto, by the way. The other thing though was, was he a cool guy?

[James Demoulian]

He was really cool. Yeah. He's got great aura. Like I like to say aura because like there are some people where you see them walk in a room and they just like command like that kind of attention and whatnot. And so he definitely was a super nice guy. Really, really cool guy. And then also another one that really stood out to me was so we did Tom Cruise in San Antonio the next day. Literally a day later, we hopped on like a 5am flight from San Antonio to Los Angeles. We interviewed Will Smith. So we did them back to back days and Will Smith was, I mean, I can't say enough but just great things about him. He was so nice to our team, had the best energy and gave an incredible interview as well. And that was a completely different dynamic Like I was.

[Jen Cohen]

Wait, was it after the Chris Rock thing?

[James Demoulian]

The. The. It was after the Chris Rock.

[Jen Cohen]

Right. So he has, he has a reputation now to kind of.

[James Demoulian]

Sure, sure, definitely. I mean, I'm sure that.

[Jen Cohen]

What did they reach out to you also?

[James Demoulian]

I. How did that one come about? I have a great friend out here who is very close with some of the people that are with Will Smith's media company, Westbrook.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

So that's kind of how I had got connected to them. And they loved the idea of it and I'm sure that was part of it for sure. But I mean, nonetheless, I can't. Like he gave a great interview and was incredible to my entire team when we went out there to go and meet him.

[Jen Cohen]

You know what's funny about him? Just to kind of stay with him for a second. That's why the whole thing with Chris Rock was so shocking because everyone's experience with him, from what everything I've heard has been really positive. People really like him. He's been. He's such a nice guy. Like that's shocked. I'm not surprised to hear that, that you just said that. That it was like a good interview. How long was the interview?

[James Demoulian]

About 20 minutes.

[Jen Cohen]

So is that typically how long it actually is with these interviews with people?

[James Demoulian]

20 minutes, I would say, yeah, are like the short form street interviews that people see on the Instagram, the TikTok. They're typically anywhere from five to 45 minutes.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh, 45 minutes sometimes.

[James Demoulian]

I typically won't stop the interview until I know that I have a usable piece of like short form content. And we also have a big presence on YouTube as well. Yeah, we post longer iterations of our interviews on YouTube. So I think that I would say it's anywhere from about 5 to 45 minutes on average. I would say 15 to 20 minutes typically is how long they. Most of them go. The ones that are set up.

[Jen Cohen]

Really?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

How much. What's the percentage of videos that are set up versus organic?

[James Demoulian]

It's about 50. 50. I would say it's 50. 50 some months it could be 60, 40. 60 could be set up. 40 could be not set up, but I would say about 50, 50. And I like it that way, honestly, because I, you know. Yes, we're at the point now with 22 million followers where we're able to set up interviews with incredible billionaires and people that have built amazing companies. I also do love the idea of that you're never going to beat that raw on the street content where you're cold Approaching people and I like sometimes a little bit of a challenge of them trying to kind of be like, I don't want to do it. Because people like when you're able to. Objection. Handle. I feel like that's been one of my superpowers is being able to like get people that don't want to talk to talk. You know.

[Jen Cohen]

Can I tell you the truth? That's the part I love the most because like when you. I can tell, I'm sure when it's like super organic, when people are like not interested and they really are walking away from you and you have to like kind of. You gotta like conjure them into coming versus when it's more like they're. They. Oh yes, no, I'm busy. But they're obviously not like, I find that. Are those the ones. Have you noticed the organic ones just do better in general?

[James Demoulian]

Yes.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

100.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

They're always going to. Right. Anytime that there's a little bit of like hesitancy. You know, we talked about kind of like with, with content, whenever there's some sort of like tension, it's almost like you have to like create a challenge for the viewer a little bit.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

That especially like we'll shift slightly to talk about like YouTube long form content. Like we just hit 2 million followers or 2 million subscribers a couple days ago. And the number one thing I learned about YouTube was that you have to create a challenge. Like why is Mr. Beast so successful? It creates a very interesting viewer experience. You take them on a journey. Right. So what we started to do with our interviews was showing a ton of rejections whenever we would go to a city and what you're doing is like you're making the food be like, wait a minute, this is like way harder than it looks. Is even going to get one out here.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

And then you reward them with showing them that you got the interview. So anytime that you can create some sort of like challenge or tension in your content, it's always going to perform a lot better on average.

[Jen Cohen]

And so you're saying that you still do it organically. What do you mean? You sat. You stand in the middle of a neighborhood and just wait for people to walk by.

[James Demoulian]

Proximity is power. If I'm going into a city, so what I'll typically do is I'll set up, you know, one huge interviewer, two huge interviews in a city. Right. Like I just, I was just in London for about a week. Literally within the last 10 days. I was in London for a week. I set up maybe one or two interviews out there.

[Jen Cohen]

With who?

[James Demoulian]

I said one with a guy named Richard Harpin. He sold a company called home serve for 4.1 billion pounds. And then another guy named Simon Squib. I don't know if you're familiar with him.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, how do I know him?

[James Demoulian]

He's the guy. He does interviews. He does. What's your dream is kind of like his.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Demoulian]

He's a great creator. He's also had a lot of success in business. He's exited several businesses. And so I had two interviews set up out there, but beyond that, I spent hours every day just going to Mount, which. Going to Mayfair, which is like, the wealthiest area of London. It's like the Beverly Hills of London. So what I'll do is I'll set up one or two big interviews in a city, and then I'll spend the rest of the time, like, just going around Beverly Hills, or if I'm in Miami, I'll go to Palm beach, and I'll just put myself in the areas where there's, like, a high concentration, a high volume of wealthy people, and I'll just go up to people. And a lot of the people I go up to, I probably. I may not use, but maybe it's like two out of every ten interviews that I do, I post two of those. And, like, that's worth it to me.

[Jen Cohen]

Give me an example of then, is that. Give me something that's happened like that recently where you just had, like, stood at Mayfair or Beverly Hills. Like, you're in LA right now.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Where. Where are you gonna go today after this?

[James Demoulian]

I'm gonna go out and Rodeo Drive and just camp out there with him for a couple hours.

[Jen Cohen]

Like, we're at a coffee shop. What are you.

[James Demoulian]

Coffee shops. Stores. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just try and find some of, like, the wealthy locals, the people that, you know, live there, and just organically go up to them.

[Jen Cohen]

Will you just go up to everybody who rich and be like, hey, okay, when, like, tell me somebody that that's happened with recently, where you just kind of, like, stood around where they didn't know who you were, and you just kind of bombarded them with questions.

[James Demoulian]

100. I'm trying to think about a really good one.

[Jen Cohen]

Organic.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. I mean, we were just in Miami for doing an interview with Jordan Belfort out there down in Miami. And I was.

[Jen Cohen]

He's good, though. I. I had a great interview with him.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, He's a cool guy.

[Jen Cohen]

He's funny.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. So it's just like, one came to the Top of my mind, I was. My last day of filming out in Miami was actually after the Belfort interview. I just went to the Miami design district.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

Which is, like, where all, like, the shops are kind of, like, very similar to, like, a Rodeo Drive feel. And I just went up to this guy in a group of three people. He was in a sharp suit, and started peppering him with questions. And then as I uncovered, I forgot what company it was that he sold. But he sold, like, one of the very original, like, big, like, tech Internet companies for several billion dollars. And he also owns the Plaza Hotel in New York City. So it was kind of just cool. Just how randomly, organically, just going up and. And meeting people like that, because you just really never know sometimes. But I've had that happen so many times where, like, I'll be in Highland park in Dallas, and I'm interviewing people, and, you know, I'm like, are you a business owner? No, I'm the CEO of Frito Lay. Like, just. That's happened so many times, man. We've done that with. With a lot of different people who I didn't even really know that I was interviewing. But come to find out, like, you know, I've risen. This is a good one. Houston River Oaks is, like, the really wealthy area in Houston. And I saw this gentleman coming out of a G wagon. And I go up to him, and I go, excuse me, sir, is this your G wagon? And he goes, yeah. And I go. I go, you know, what do you do for a living out here in Houston? Afford a G wagon. And he goes, work hard. And I go, what a lot of business are you in? And he goes, football. And I go, what do you do? He goes, I own a football team. And I go, what team? Houston Texans. I go, you own the Texans? He goes, htown, baby. So it's kind of funny. Like, we've had so. And I had no idea who he was, because he's not. Like, his name's Cal McNair. It's worth probably 10, $15 billion. But I didn't know who he was by his face. It's funny. Like, all the comments are like, how do you not know who that is? And I'm like, I'm not from Houston. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know Jerry Jones, but, like, he's not, like, a known person. So that's happened a lot. You know, I could name countless cities where we've gone up to people and. And just finding out, like, these people are worth billions of dollars, you know, so it's pretty crazy.

[Jen Cohen]

Who's the one person you have not done that you would really love to interview?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, there's, there's definitely a list of some people that I'd love to do. President Trump, I think will be dope. Elon Musk would be cool. Kim Kardashian, Conor McGregor, Kanye West.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. So Kim Kardashian would seem like a no brainer. You can probably just contact them at this point and she'd probably show up

[James Demoulian]

with, I hope to do her assume for sure. Yeah, I think she would be, I think she'd be a fun one. I also, like, I love the fact that she's like, like literally one of the things that I preach to people is like mastering attention. Like, there's not really many better examples than the entire Kardashian family of like how well they've turned attention into revenue and they've built great businesses.

[Jen Cohen]

Talk to her mom. Her mom done a fantastic job.

[James Demoulian]

100.

[Jen Cohen]

Have you not done Kris Jenner?

[James Demoulian]

I haven't said.

[Jen Cohen]

These are like, to me, I'm surprised. These are low hanging fruit people that I thought Kim Kardashian, Donald Trump, they, they talk to everybody.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Why have you not, have you reached out to them?

[James Demoulian]

The middleman. Come on. It's the middleman. But you know, you know what it is is that this right here is like, like we've done Dana White, we've done before. He's the UFC president. Like, that would probably be my best way to go about going to get Trump because I've, I've tried through several times to kind of go. It's, it's. The middlemen are just tough, you know, to get to.

[Jen Cohen]

Donald Trump job.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Are you joking me?

[James Demoulian]

What?

[Jen Cohen]

I thought that would be like a no brainer for you. I mean, think about it. When he wanted to run for president, he went on the full sand podcast, which is guys your age, the bros.

[James Demoulian]

But think about his intros though. He's going straight through Dana White.

[Jen Cohen]

He's going through Dana White.

[James Demoulian]

He's like a close friend.

[Jen Cohen]

So, you know, or his son who loves all the. I bet you his son watches you.

[James Demoulian]

He's probably seen it for sure.

[Jen Cohen]

Have you ever tried to DM his son?

[James Demoulian]

I don't. He's on Instagram. I don't. He's not on. Yeah, he doesn't have a personal page. I've looked. He doesn't.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh, you have.

[James Demoulian]

So.

[Jen Cohen]

But like, you would think, because Donald Trump loves attention in media.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure.

[Jen Cohen]

Have you ever mar a lago or not?

[James Demoulian]

It's definitely a goal. For sure.

[Jen Cohen]

You could get that tomorrow. What are you talking about?

[James Demoulian]

We got it. We got to try. For sure.

[Jen Cohen]

This is like, I would think that would be like a no brainer. Come on, James. You're supposed to be like, you know, super aggressive. What's going on? Definitely you and I have to have a conversation after this.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay. So. And the Kanye West, I mean, that would be interesting every year.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. I just, I just respect.

[Jen Cohen]

He was supposed to be on this podcast. Yeah. And he counted. Not like literally was. It was scheduled. All the things.

[James Demoulian]

Was it recently or.

[Jen Cohen]

It was after all his whole, you know.

[James Demoulian]

Okay.

[Jen Cohen]

It was probably a. Eleven months ago, a year ago. And then he just didn't show up.

[James Demoulian]

Okay.

[Jen Cohen]

Shocking. I know. It's very shocking to see it.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. I mean, I mean, look like the thing, the thing that I really love and respect about. Yay. Is that I just think that, number one, you got to have some level of respect for the people that, that, you know. I mean, granted, I know that he maybe has said some pretty horrible things. Pretty, pretty, pretty crazy things. Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

And I'm Jewish and so. But I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth, like, because to me he's like, mentally, like, not well and. But yet he's very. He's obviously very smart.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

And I think I couldn't tell if it was done more for publicity or just his office meds or what was going on. I was very curious. That's why I was.

[James Demoulian]

I think he just. I think he's got a fascinating mind. Like, he thinks just in a very different way. And also, like, I mean, he's had so much success in music and then also business. I mean, like what he did with Yeezy and Adidas, like, I think pretty amazing, actually. It is pretty amazing. Yeah. So I think he's definitely somebody that would be. And I love his music too, you know, so.

[Jen Cohen]

I know.

[James Demoulian]

I think, I think, I think it'd be a great conversation. For sure.

[Jen Cohen]

So those are the. Anybody else that you haven't done that?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I talked about Musk. You know, he's. He's in Austin, so. Got to get to Musk. Got to get to Bezos.

[Jen Cohen]

I don't understand. Like, you would think these people have not reached out to you or you have not reached out.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, mean, it's. Again, it's. It's just a matter of time. That's the Way I look at it, it's like, even like Tom Brady, for example, who we've done, like, I was trying to get him a year before, and we weren't able to get through to the gatekeepers. But then finally I had somebody on his team that I knew and was able to put that together. Michael Rubin. Same thing.

[Jen Cohen]

Alex, who did you go through for Tom for?

[James Demoulian]

Well, I. I just ironically, just somebody that does the merch for one of his companies.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh.

[James Demoulian]

So it's just like, you never know. Like, sometimes you just need, like, one person who's, like, a close degree to that person to make it make sense. It's like, bro, here's this person. They've done this person to get this many views. Like, it makes. It makes sense.

[Jen Cohen]

Do you know how many people that. Like, all, like. Like, a lot of the really great people that I've got or people are like, how did you get this person? How'd you get. Usually it was, like, random. It was someone who was actually friends with them or, like, were.

[James Demoulian]

Well, I have a funny. Yeah, funny story about that. I was literally. I was just walking around Beverly Hills like, a couple weeks ago, or probably, like. Like one or two months ago, and this lady had stopped me.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

And she goes, hey, you interview all these people, right? She's like, you should do something with my brother. And I was like. I was like. I was like, who's your brother? And she's like, oh, he built this company called speechify. It's a $3 billion company. And so they connect me over text. I hopped on FaceTime literally minutes after being connected with her brother, and her brother goes, hey, how long you in LA for? And I was like, oh, you know, I actually leave, like, tomorrow, actually. And he was like, well, would you want to do Scooter Braun? And so. And sure enough, he connected me to Scooter Braun. And we did it just through that. Just from a girl, a lady just stopping me on the street, to connecting with her brother, to then, you know, him connecting with Scooter Braun, like, just like that, you know? And, like, these aren't necessarily super easy people to, like, just get access to, like, that. So just.

[Jen Cohen]

I know the.

[James Demoulian]

The unconventional ways of going about getting certain people is, like, like, really, really fun. I know.

[Jen Cohen]

Honestly, if you have. That's. That's what we said earlier. If you have to go conventional, you've already lost. Yes, I really feel that way because also, the dynamic is different. Like, I find, like, then they bring people, and then, like, they give you these qu. Like you have. What are you going to ask? What are you not going to ask? And they sit there and stare at you while you do the interview and all the other things. Like it was like, hey, you know what, by the way, this would be a great person for you. Or hey, I'm friends with so and so. And a text in the intro and it's done. That happened to me yesterday actually. Actually like, for example, like I, I did all the Sharks or. And I really like Rob Hershevic. Have you. I love, I love him.

[James Demoulian]

He's the best. He's so good.

[Jen Cohen]

By the way. I'm gonna Rob high. I really love him. He's Canadian.

[James Demoulian]

He's one of my favorite interviews ever. Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Because he's a real person and he's kind and he's nice and like I really like him. And I literally was like, hey, by the way, you know who I have an interview was Kevin o'. Leary. I'm like, hey, do you know somebody I can like reach out to? He's like, oh, I'll just, I'll just introduce you right now. And he just like connected me to Kevin in like two seconds. And Kevin responded in three seconds. And now Kevin's coming on. You know, I. But that's the thing. Like again, back to the. The original point is like some of these people who made it really big, they're just. It's not them who, who are, who are affected, it's the people sometimes that like, like are representing them that kind of causes the biggest problem.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, 100%, you know. Absolutely.

[Jen Cohen]

So who are some other of your favorite people that you've done?

[James Demoulian]

I love Mike Roli, Mike Rolle. He's the founder of Body Armor and Smart Water and he did a total of 12 billion in exits to Coca Cola.

[Jen Cohen]

I know him.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, he was an incredible interview. That, that's a guy that just does not stop just scheming and thinking. And that's just like a common thread in these people is they are just obsessed with what they do. And I remember like we had the interview scheduled at like 10am at his house down in Florida and we got there at 10. The interview didn't start for like four hours. We were just talking about business and he was just non stop just like question after question and question. That's such a fascinating thing about a lot of these billionaires.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

You know, a lot of people would think and assume that, you know, they have all the answers, they have everything figured out, but they are really lifelong learners. Like they are so inquisitive and they really want to like, know, like, hey, what, what do you, what did you do to kind of get here? And so like, it's really cool to like, see that thread because it's like, typically, it's like, you know, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm small fish in the scheme of things, right. To them, like, I'm 23, you know, we've got a cool business now, but like, compared to what they've done, it's like, I need to learn from this guy. But it's like they, they want to learn from you. And so I think that's like, that was like a really. Something that really surprised me, honestly, with spending a lot of time with them. But Mike Ropoli, I love.

[Jen Cohen]

I like that clip, by the way. I remember it.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, Big takeaway from him was just this idea that I remember. It always repeats in the back of my mind. He says, when, when the big guy, when, when the big entrepreneur on top, the minute he gets comfortable, the starving entrepreneur is going to come up and eat their lunch. And so I think that that's something that like, have to me to this day, it's like, hey, we've got 22 million followers. Was just talking in the car with I think him or somebody else. I was having a conversation about how it's like, now that there's like a whole bunch of people trying to do the exact same thing. And it's like to me, I'm like, man, I just have to keep on pouring gas down their throat. So that's why, like, you cannot just like you just can't stop, you know,

[Jen Cohen]

so you cannot get comfortable and complacent. That is 100% true. Because there's always someone behind you ready to take your spot.

[James Demoulian]

Absolutely.

[Jen Cohen]

I mean, mean, I was actually going to ask you. That's part one of my questions is I've noticed in the last year a lot of people are doing your style. In fact, I saw you stop on the street with somebody who did the same thing that you do. I don't know, he does like a confidence channel or maybe or, or like

[James Demoulian]

I've done a couple of them.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, yeah. They're not like you, I have to say. They also don't show themselves on camera,

[James Demoulian]

I don't think, because some of them do. Some of them.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh, really? Not the ones I. What I. So do you see them as like. So you do see them as competition? Like, what do you think of all these new up and comers? Like, you're 23, for God's sake. It's like to me, you know, but when you're seeing other people now emulate you, how does that, what is that, what does that make you feel?

[James Demoulian]

I just want to crush them.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, you just want to crush. So you don't lose that competitiveness.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, no, definitely not. And I don't mean in a way in terms of, like, you know, wishing ill will on anybody, like, definitely not. But just from a, from a, from a business standpoint, like, you know what it is, too, it's not the format. I don't have an issue with the format because I, I, I will say this too. I did not invent street interviews. I, I didn't. Every major cable legacy media news channel has been doing street interviews.

[Jen Cohen]

Exactly.

[James Demoulian]

Ever since they started. I, I did, I did not invent street interviews. And I'm inviting everybody. Like, it's a great format of content. I mean, it works well. Like Damon John the shark says, pioneers get slaughtered and settlers prosper. Like, if it's a winning type of content, like, like, use it. But like, when you are taking the exact same question I use at the beginning and, like, the exact same questions throughout that are, like, specific, unique questions that, like, I've come up with that I'm just like, then I, I just, like, literally, it's like, because I don't like that. Like, I know that people will, will say, like, oh, imitation is like the greatest form of flattery. I disagree with that. Because it's an art. Like, if you have your own art, if you have your own craft, and people are just kind of like, ripping it, per se. Like, I, I have, I, I have no desire to support that and whatnot. So, so that's kind of how I feel about that ultimately. Again, like, the confidence person, like, I know what Craig you're talking about. He does his own thing. Cool. I have nothing, there's nothing wrong with that at all. He's not, he's not, you know, doing exactly what I'm doing. So I have no problem with that. But it's the people that, who I've seen kind of like, take the exact same questions that I use and don't even try and get innovative in any type of way. That's, that's kind of like what I have an issue with.

[Jen Cohen]

But guess what? They're not, they're gonna hit a ceiling.

[James Demoulian]

100. I'm innovating.

[Jen Cohen]

I'm innovating.

[James Demoulian]

Exactly.

[Jen Cohen]

That's the way I look at it. If they're not, if they can't think of a unique. Unique spin.

[James Demoulian]

Right.

[Jen Cohen]

Or something that can. That they can call their own, then they're only going to go so far. Right. And so I would. I wouldn't even be concerned about that. But I totally understand what you mean.

[James Demoulian]

Definitely not.

[Jen Cohen]

I totally. But you have to keep that competitive edge for sure. Okay, so what do. Well, first of all, you have those two questions you always ask people. What's the last question you always ask? If you were to die tomorrow, if

[James Demoulian]

me and you died tomorrow and you had one more message to live with the younger generation, what would that be?

[Jen Cohen]

Okay, answer your own question.

[James Demoulian]

Oh, my one question. You know, I. I'll. I'll give you. I'll give you two answers. I'll say number one. Like, probably one of my favorite pieces of advice that I ever received was from a guy named Billy Ray Taylor. You know, it's funny. I went to this, like, business conference in Houston where they had all these great speakers. Damon J. Is one of them. Kendra Scott, Marcus Lemonis, like, all these big, heavy hitters. And I interviewed all them, like, all the speakers. But my favorite interview I did that entire day was with just a guy that was in attendance. His name was Billy Ray Taylor. He was an executive at a company, Goodyear tires, like, a $10 billion company. And I'll never forget the advice that his mom gave to him that, like, I'll kind of. Kind of share for this one. He said that if a bird lands on a branch, does the bird trust the branch or does it trust its wings? And the clue. I've seen many birds land on branches, but what I've never seen is the branch break and the bird fall and die. So you trust your wings. Like, that's one that I. I love. That has really always, like, stuck with me ever since hearing that kind of saying right there. Like, you have to trust your wings. You know, like Will Smith talked about in the interview that we did together. It's just never taking advice from people that you wouldn't trade places with. Like, taking advice from people to, yes, have not done the thing that you want to do is insanity. So those are two that I really like. I also love. I interviewed. This was an organic one. He was a. He's a filmmaker. His name's Six King. He's been, you know, done some great stuff in the music and film industry over the years. And I remember him saying that when you're born, you look like your parents, but when you die, you look like your decisions. So I think that one was one That I also loved. Right. It's just the end of the day, like, when you go to the grave, it's like you can't put the blame on anybody else. It's literally like the decisions that you decided to make. Right. You can't be a victim. You know, you have to get out there and get after it for yourself. Nobody's going to come do it for you. So I like those ones a lot. And then another one, because I could talk all day about these. I love the sound bites.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, I love the sound bites, too.

[James Demoulian]

One that I also live by, and this probably been one of my favorite ones in growing our channel is Credibility kills all bad attitudes. Credibility kills all bad attitudes. You know, I talked about some of the people that we've interviewed recently that a year ago was either a rejection or we weren't able to get in contact with them, or it was a no or just people that were not happening. But then when you get, like, a big interview, like a Tom Cruise per se, and you start to build that credibility and you start to get those wins, then it's fun. It's. It's funny to see how people kind of, like, will change, and then now all of a sudden they want to do it, but it's the result of, like, building credibility. So, like, this idea of just not taking no for an answer, like, even when I do my interviews, like, I'm so intentional. I'm gonna get that interview. I'm gonna get that interview by any means necessary. And if I don't get it yet, it's like, okay, well, try harder. Like, it's, it's, it's. There's a. There's going to be a way in for sure. So credibility kills all bad attitude is one that I really like.

[Jen Cohen]

I really love that. I heard you say that before in someone else's, I think, show. And I was like, I actually wrote it down because you're really good at that. Okay, I am going to look at my question because I don't want to leave this and be like, oh, shoot, I should should have asked him that. And I didn't. But you also said, like, people will take you places money won't. Was that.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, people will take you places that money can't.

[Jen Cohen]

So that's also. But the proximity thing, you're putting. You're putting yourself in places. Opportunity can happen.

[James Demoulian]

Very true.

[Jen Cohen]

You know what I mean?

[James Demoulian]

And I think that's another one, like, get the out of your hometown. Like, I love preaching that message because, like, again, I grew up in the DC area. Best decision I ever made was moving to Austin, Texas without a doubt.

[Jen Cohen]

Right.

[James Demoulian]

It was so, so important to us to do that at the time. Because when you're around like minded people, people who are authentic, people who are wanting to build, people that want more for themselves, it's just going to naturally have an effect on you. So like that idea of, of again that proximity and like being around like the right people, it will do so much for you.

[Jen Cohen]

Also your, your audience is like all over the place. You have like young people, you have old people. Are you. How about men and women? Do you have 50? 50? Is it like.

[James Demoulian]

I think it's probably like 65, 35, 65 men, 35 women.

[Jen Cohen]

Really? So what's. And what's like, what's the breakdown in terms of young, old, medium, whatever demographic

[James Demoulian]

is 25 to 35? Like that's probably 40% is within 25 to 35. And then the rest of it is kind of like all the way down to like, you know, teens up to, you know, 60, 70 years old.

[Jen Cohen]

So can I also want. This is what I really think is an interesting. Because you have, like we talked about very briefly, two different partners. Your brother.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

And another, a friend of yours. Josh.

[James Demoulian]

Josh. Yep, yep. My brother Jack Duma and partner Joshua Smith. We met Josh and Boy scouts together. All became Eagle Scouts. So yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

Those are my two partners.

[Jen Cohen]

And so are you guys all equal part like it's equal?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, we're all equal partners.

[Jen Cohen]

Equal partners. So like, how do you break it down? Because the one thing I think is really important is you can't be good at everything. Obviously you're really good at content. We got that done. You know, like your brother, who, who's the one that does like the back end. Like this is where people get stuck. I know. This is how I've got stuck. I get stuck is I'm like you in a lot of ways. Like I, I'm like, I'm very relentless. I have no fear. I'll. Rejection is always better than regret, in my opinion. I live by that motto. And so I'll just go because no, doesn't matter. But then like, doesn't mean I'm good with administrative work. Doesn't mean I'm good with like executing on operations. And so if you're not good at all these other things, you kind of like your stop is in your start. Right. You've been really good because you're good at something. Do you. Your brother and your partner, are they really good at then Taking that extra thing and like, like kind of creating these business ventures and verticals. Like, how do you guys divide and conquer?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, great question. And like you said, you have to find your weakness in business. Right?

[Jen Cohen]

No one's good at everything.

[James Demoulian]

Definitely not. Definitely not. And like, there's a lot of stuff with like, the product in the back end that I don't even understand.

[Jen Cohen]

Right.

[James Demoulian]

You know, and that's why I do what I do. And you know what? But the thing is, it's like you shouldn't even want to. Like, you don't need to learn how to do.

[Jen Cohen]

All right? But you need to find people who are good at balancing you out.

[James Demoulian]

Like, like, continue to become, like, so great at that. One thing that you're phenomenal at and dominate. That's what's taken us so far is like, my brother, he's incredible at like, the product. So, like, building out like, the product and the infrastructure for like, the different businesses that we have. So for the community, for our, like, you know, agency, like all that. He's great at the product. Partner Josh. In terms of, like, brands, in terms of our newsletter, a lot of the stuff on, like, the back end marketing for some of the different businesses. So everybody kind of has their, like, different kind of strengths and whatnot that they focus on throughout them and everybody pulls their weight for sure.

[Jen Cohen]

Sure. Are you. Do you edit your videos? Do you?

[James Demoulian]

This is the one thing that people, they like, they find it so funny to believe I edit every short form video.

[Jen Cohen]

You do. I knew it. I knew it.

[James Demoulian]

It's hours. So much time.

[Jen Cohen]

Because that's. Because that's what you're really good at. So why would you give away the one thing that you. That made you successful?

[James Demoulian]

And I think Dan Martell talks about it and buy back your time. Like, I've had this conversation with my brother about it that it's like, you know, I like to call them like MWA activities, which are minimum wage activities.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

You know, editing is definitely an MWA activity. 100% is. But the return that we get on editing a video for a couple hours that could potentially get 10, 20 million views. It's like, it's like, you know, it's kind of worth it. And. And I'm such like a psychopath with like editing that, like, I feel like if I were to give it to somebody else, I would want to do 30 rounds of revisions. I'm like, no, no, no, you did. You missed this part. You missed this. What he said here, it doesn't look clean. I'M like, I'm like, I might as well just do that myself. Like, it'll, it'll take forever if I try to put that through somebody else.

[Jen Cohen]

And also, there's a lot of nuance in that. Right. Because. Because you are tapping into something that you know is going to work. How do you teach that quality to someone else? And why would you rely on that? Why would you give away that, that job to somebody when that's what your superpower is? And that's what made you guys who you are? Right, right. In a lot of ways. Because if these, if these clips are not going viral, then you have nothing. Really.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. Now what I'll say is that it is extremely important as a person, any business to delegate those tasks that like, are genuinely like, again, the minimum wage activities. Because otherwise, like, like you don't want to be the employee entrepreneur that is like bogged down by, you know, just these countless tasks that don't have a crazy high return on your investment. So like, that's why like with, with my partners, it's like we've been great about like hiring like really good people. Like, we have 70 employees now across all of the different. 70? Yes, 70.

[Jen Cohen]

And what do they all do? Are they not. Obviously they're not editing or maybe they're editing something.

[James Demoulian]

Well, so, so just across the different verticals, right, like, we've got got, you know, managers in our community. We've got editors for our agency. We've got editors for, you know, we've got account managers for our agency. So we have like all these different people that are kind of in place, you know, videographers. So across the different businesses that are able to alleviate a lot of the time and task, you know, there's just like a ton of different things, right. Like people that are writing copy for our email list for our newsletter, writing copy for promotional posts for our events and like, because if you, you know, are going to assign yourself 20 different things to do, it just becomes hard, especially like, you know, with different things coming down the pipeline and just trying to focus on those like, higher leverage, like activities.

[Jen Cohen]

Absolutely. I mean, yes, that is 100 true. But I can see why it would be very difficult to kind of give the reins to like, those videos.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

By the way, I forgot about this line that you said that I love. It's it addicted to. People are addicted to education but allergic to execution.

[James Demoulian]

Very true.

[Jen Cohen]

True. So true.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. I like to say also another one too is that information can change situations, but only through implementation. Yes, it goes right in line with that, that most people are addicted to education. They're allergic to execution. The reason why our businesses, like our companies, do over $1.5 million a month, like we're now an eight figure company, is because we took the lessons. We took all the knowledge that we learned from the conversations we had and we applied it to the businesses that we were building and creating. And what so many people do is like, they hear something, they feel good for a little bit, but then they don't. Then they don't do anything about it. Right. So it's very important to like take massive action, to like actually bring ideas to life.

[Jen Cohen]

How do you like, do that, though? Like, I find. Can I be honest with you? A lot of people your age, your generation, they want balance. They want, it's all about like feeling your feelings and not working. That, like, you know, environments and kind of triggers and safe spaces. They're not, not out there.

[James Demoulian]

Like calling us soft is what you're saying.

[Jen Cohen]

Yes. Not calling you soft. I don't think you're soft. But I think a lot of people in your generation are fragile.

[James Demoulian]

Absolutely.

[Jen Cohen]

Can I say that?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. Well, that's why, again, a person, I'll mention him again, Dana White talks about, like, there's tremendous opportunity for people in our generation to stand out. And it is by like not being one of those people. Right. So I definitely do agree with that. Unfortunately, I feel like, like our generation, there is a big degree and level of entitlement that people have that they feel like they're owed something. And the sooner that people can realize that you are not owed anything, like, stop choosing to be a victim.

[Jen Cohen]

It's crazy 100%.

[James Demoulian]

It's like insanity. And I just will not allow.

[Jen Cohen]

See that all the time.

[James Demoulian]

Absolutely. But you know, again, I choose to, like, I'm a huge advocate in like, again, this idea, aside from God, like, nobody's coming to save you. Like, when it comes to you wanting to build a business, when it comes to you, you know, actually like wanting to do something, you know, for yourself,

[Jen Cohen]

I guess, also thinking about it.

[James Demoulian]

And you know what?

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

If you want to live that comfortable life and have the balance, like, great. Like, like then that's great. But just don't expect to be able to create your own schedule. Don't expect to have freedom and expect to work hours for somebody else. And there's, that's, there's nothing wrong with that either. Like, some people genuinely do want that life and they shouldn't be like, I, I'm saying that because it's like, hey, like if that's what you want, that's, that's fine. I just, again, if you have that seed in you where you genuinely want more for yourself, where you don't ever have to worry about money, where you want to be able to help take care of your family, like you are going to have to sacrifice. There's not going to be a lot of work, life balance. Like I was on 150 flights last year. Like, it's ridiculous. And granted, like, I won't probably be able to go at that pace forever and I probably wouldn't want to go at that pace forever. But because I love so much what I do and it's brought me so much success from not just a media standpoint, but also from a business standpoint as like I'm willing to just keep on going for as long as I am feeling so good and like want to continue to do it, like, I don't have an issue with it at all. I don't plan on stopping.

[Jen Cohen]

No. 100%. I agree. I have another one for you. Don't be upset by the results you get by the work you didn't do.

[James Demoulian]

Yes, most people are rewarded in public for what they practice in private.

[Jen Cohen]

100% right.

[James Demoulian]

Very true.

[Jen Cohen]

So then tell me then about these, these other businesses. Because let's say, for example, walk me through. You still haven't really walked me through it. So let's say you meet with, with whoever, Tom Brady, and then you have a great interview and blah, blah, blah. And then you say, hey, I'm doing this subscription model company where I want to have someone like yourself on every what week by whatever bi weekly. Will you be okay by it? What is the, what, what are you asking? What's the ask to these people? Is it like 10 minutes on a call? What does someone get? If I was someone who is going to subscribe, what do I get them from a Tom Brady or from. Is Tom Brady one of the people

[James Demoulian]

that said, yeah, we haven't had Tom Brady on? Not to like discredit Tom Brady at all, but no, no, no. I would say the primary people that we have on the call, I'm just making up whoever. I mean, hey, if Tom wants to do a call, I'd love to have

[Jen Cohen]

mine, you know, There you go.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, but, but, but it's again, it's people that have built eight, nine type bigger companies.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay, the guy from Body Armor, whoever it is, okay, just, I'm just making up whoever.

[James Demoulian]

So if, if people, if members in our Audience, people that like the content, if they want to join, pretty much they get access.

[Jen Cohen]

How much is it? Let's, I'm, let's say I'm a person who wants to join.

[James Demoulian]

50 bucks a month.

[Jen Cohen]

50 bucks?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. 49 bucks a month.

[Jen Cohen]

And what do I get?

[James Demoulian]

You get access to a call every single week with an 8, 9 or 10 figure entrepreneur where you can ask your questions directly to them. And once a month we host events where we host three calls on a day. So it's more like probably four to like seven or eight calls a month where we bring in just entrepreneurs that have built incredible businesses and you get access to be able to ask your questions directly to them. Now think about it this way, this is the way I look at it. If you typically, if you want to get around people like that, if you want time from people that have been able to exit a company for nine or ten figures, typically you either better find that person in a coffee shop and go ask them a question or you have to pay thousands of dollars to be part of like a mastermind or something like that. Whereas we're giving people access to that for the price of a couple sub sandwiches a month. You know what I mean? So to me it's, it's, it's like a win win.

[Jen Cohen]

Anyone can. So let's say you have how many members you have subscribed?

[James Demoulian]

Close like 6,000 or so.

[Jen Cohen]

So does this person have to sit on the phone and hear 6,000 questions?

[James Demoulian]

No, I mean I would say that we don't have 6,000 people. People that show up to every single call.

[Jen Cohen]

How many people show up?

[James Demoulian]

Oh, anywhere from maybe three, that hundred to a thousand just kind of depends and like, like not everybody necessarily is going to get to ask a question on a call. All but just to kind of again like be in the room and be able to like ask their questions and stuff like that. Like a lot of, a lot of

[Jen Cohen]

people sound like a mastermind.

[James Demoulian]

100.

[Jen Cohen]

What do you think of these masterminds that are charging a hundred thousand dollars a year for people to be involved with to do these things? Like what's your take on this whole thing?

[James Demoulian]

It's interesting. I would just say vet the people that are a part of that mastermind and the stuff that they're teaching and what they've done for, you know, themselves. Like I think that that's the whole problem with the whole wisdom economy. The people that are selling information, that are selling masterminds is like there are a lot of people that are involved that have actually done it for themselves and they built great businesses. But like, anytime, like, somebody is selling some sort of, like, information or like a course per se, it's like, make sure that, like, they've actually done the thing that there is that they want to do. So the reason why, like, I'm not afraid to, like, say that, like, hey, we have a content consulting company, that we have a content agency, is because I've done 5 billion views for myself. Like, I know this stuff, have, like the back of my head. Whereas a lot of people that are pushing a certain product or service, they've never done it before. Yeah, it's like, why would you want to learn from that person? So I think that that's why, like, a lot of people, like, they just need to be vetted. Like, I don't have an issue with that because I, I know so many people that have been a part of masterminds and their businesses have genuinely grown exponentially from being able to like, even just fix one or two things or get like a couple lessons that, like, if they go to like a paid event and listen to a couple of speakers or they go meet people on a mastermind or something like that, that I do think that there's a lot of value in that education. Again, it's just a matter of, like, actually taking action on the things that you learn and making sure that the people that are involved that are teaching

[Jen Cohen]

that you're learning YPO in a way, but 100%, but they're much more expensive. And I think that they're not as vetted. That's the problem. And the problem is you have a lot of charlatans. With social media comes a lot of charlatans, and everyone's a coach. And everyone can say that Charlotte is true. I mean, honestly, if you go. If I go through my algorithm, nine out of 10 people I see are charlatans who are coaches who are telling you to do something that they've never done themselves, who are saying, if you want to be a millionaire or this, this, this, do this and this. Meanwhile, they're living in a studio apartment. Like, to me, that's what's really happening. And you got to be extremely discerning because you're taking advice most of the time from a bunch of yahoos. That literally is the truth. Yeah, you can, you know, there's always exceptions to every rule. And that's why even like, when people. I'm sure you get tons of pitches if you do homework, you'll find that most of these people Some of them, not most, some of them are not who they're, you know, pretending like. Chris Rock did this really funny thing where he says that like when you date somebody, it's your sales rep who's going out there and talking. It's not really the person that's really the truth what's happening with social media. Right. So like, I think what I love about what you do especially is you're giving people legit people that maybe are not known, but they've actually built true businesses a lot of the times. Like they may not be fancy businesses or things that you know of, but they are actually like, they're alert that you're getting a lot of great nuggets from their like, like. Or their real, their real experience.

[James Demoulian]

Very true. I mean that's my favorite part about the channel, honestly.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

Is number one, what we're showing people is there are so many different ways to get rich in today's world. M. I mean a lot of people, especially with social media is they think that they have to go out and build the next Google.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

And they have to go build this like super sexy company. But I mean some of the richest people in the world that I've met have built the most boring businesses and things that you would have. No idea. Like we just interviewed a guy in Las Vegas that has a construction equipment business that's sold for $2 billion. I mean look at Todd Graves.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

He's worth $20 billion of selling chicken fingers.

[Jen Cohen]

I know.

[James Demoulian]

You know to read Jimmy John subs like like just. It's crazy.

[Jen Cohen]

I love the bother. Those chicken fingers are really good, but damn good.

[James Demoulian]

They're damn good. He's good though.

[Jen Cohen]

It's still like 20 billion. Like he's like worth the 20 billion. Do would ever think that, you know what I mean?

[James Demoulian]

Definitely not.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay, tell me what a little bit. And then while I'll wrap it up about your content business because you're now helping businesses or entrepreneurs basically become content creators or create.

[James Demoulian]

Just helping them build their personal brand.

[Jen Cohen]

Let me ask you a question. If someone has a billion dollars, why do they care about having a personal brand? Didn't they just like, what if you made. Once you have $2 billion, are you still going to want to have a personal brand?

[James Demoulian]

100%.

[Jen Cohen]

Really? Okay, tell me why.

[James Demoulian]

Because to me, having the personal brand, it's, it's legacy. Like why would a billionaire do an interview? It's legacy. They're able to give back. They're able to, you know, I mean, I, I mean I look at, we're going to see a big trend of this happening as well. I mean, PayPal is currently hiring, maybe they filled the position, they're currently hiring somebody to be the head of content for the PayPal CEO. And I think we're going to see, I think we're going to see that trend happening with all these big companies as well. I mean, but also think about it this way, like, how many airlines are there?

[Jen Cohen]

A lot.

[James Demoulian]

There's a lot.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah.

[James Demoulian]

I only know one airline CEO.

[Jen Cohen]

Who do you know?

[James Demoulian]

Virgin.

[Jen Cohen]

Virgin, Richard Branson.

[James Demoulian]

He's the only billionaire. So it's like, it's because he has that personal brand.

[Jen Cohen]

So that's different. I'm talking about, like, so you're saying, I think it's really important for a brand to have, have the, the head of the brand or the head of the company to have to become a thought leader because it just enhances.

[James Demoulian]

What you're saying is the person who's already a billionaire, why do they need

[Jen Cohen]

to go like 3 billion? And like what. Why I'm asking is, I see a lot of these people who are then coming on social media and they're buying a million followers and they're buying a half. I don't get it.

[James Demoulian]

That's terrible. That's terrible. I haven't, although, at least from my honest perspective, I haven't seen the credible people that are like legitimate billionaires do that. I've seen a lot of the scammy kind of people where like, they're, you know, the Internet marketer, digital entrepreneur that has the hundreds and you can tell easily if somebody has fake followers or

[Jen Cohen]

not, why they're buying their shares, their likes, their following.

[James Demoulian]

Crazy. I, I don't understand. It's, it's, it's sad, honestly.

[Jen Cohen]

But why are they doing it?

[James Demoulian]

Perception. They, it's perception because you and I know, as somebody, as people who create content and have actually done well and have actually gone viral, but to the masses, people, they're like, oh my gosh, this person has 500,000 followers without going to look and see that their views, they're getting like 3,000 views. And you know, or, or they're getting bought views and likes and the comments are all like AI robots, just kind of like, you know, saying a bunch of bs.

[Jen Cohen]

No matter how much money you make, you can still be insecure. Basically it is.

[James Demoulian]

And, and just to kind of go back to kind of what you're saying about, like, why would a billionaire want to have like a big following and people know who they are, you're right. Like, I mean, there's definitely a subset, like there's certain billionaires, like I would love to do and that I've met and I would know that I would never be able to get them to agree to do an interview. And they just, that's how they want to live their life and be private. And there's nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of them that want to do it for the purposes of giving back and they care about their legacy. And it's like, hey, they know what they, when, when they leave, people will be able to know their story, they'll be able to know about their insights. And to that degree, it's like, I think what a lot of people, people would ultimately want to do it for. And also it's like a billionaire has a lot of money, but like, what are the two of the biggest currencies in today's world? It's, it's your, your money, but then also attention. And so a lot of people do want attention. Like a lot of billionaires do want to be famous. A lot of multimillionaires, they do want to be famous. And so it comes down to the person ultimately, like, again, I understand completely. If people have made a lot of money, you got to be careful. There's a lot of crazy people in the world. And if people know that you are somebody who's high profile and have a lot of money, money, like, you got to be careful. You have to make sure that you're, you know, somebody that's not going to get taken out, you know, for whatever reason it may be. So I, I also do understand both sides of wanting to protect yourself and not have like a crazy, like, digital footprint and wanting a bunch of people to know who you are at the same time. You know, I also, you know, will enjoy any kind of experience and chance that I get to meet up with people that have, you know, built great brands or companies and, and done great things in the business world and for themselves.

[Jen Cohen]

Yeah, I know a lot of people I know who are legit, like billionaires, they're not interested in social media. They're not interested in like building up a brand. You know, they actually, it's the opposite. They want to make, they're like, don't post me, don't put me on the, on the video. Don't put me on this thing because they're scared for their kids also a lot of times, right, I've had that happen before. You have a lot.

[James Demoulian]

So I've had To take videos down to people.

[Jen Cohen]

Actually, me too. Yeah, that's happened to me like four or five times and so I find it. So where's your sweet spot? Like, who is your client? Like, like if you're talking to a bunch of entrepreneurs, like, who is that person that you're looking to really help build their brand? Someone who's like, like who is up and coming, who is a CEO of a company that's really trying to like make. Become a thought leader so they can help their company elevate. Like, who is your ideal person?

[James Demoulian]

Anybody. I mean, I mean, obviously, I mean like, just because of like how great the product and services.

[Jen Cohen]

Like, you'd probably be like amazing at it.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean we, we've gone viral in our agency. We've gone viral, Viral with healthcare CEOs, we've gone viral with tanning salon owners, We've gone viral with, you know, finance guys. I mean, any industry, software companies.

[Jen Cohen]

How expensive is it? How cheap is it or how cost effective? What's the how, what's the price?

[James Demoulian]

Well, we, well, we have two different businesses. We have a done for you content agency that does the content from start to finish, meaning where we come up with all the ideas, all the strategies, we all the hooks for them, we do all the filming, all the editing, all the posting top so done for you Is that business. Okay. And then we also have like a consulting business where I assembled a team of some of the top content creators, short form and long form, to pretty much do calls weekly, bi weekly, inside of this kind of, I guess you could call it like a, like a community per se. It's called the school of content where pretty much people will get access to, you know, know the top minds and content creation. Like I mentor people in there on how to pretty much crush their brands and stuff like that with content as well.

[Jen Cohen]

So, so the first one that you said, how much would that cost someone to do? I know a lot of people who do that, but yeah, we charge like

[James Demoulian]

$10,000 a month for, for the conversation. Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay. That's not terrible.

[James Demoulian]

No, it's not. It's not bad at all.

[Jen Cohen]

How many pieces of content do you get a week?

[James Demoulian]

Well, you, you do a piece of content every single day.

[Jen Cohen]

So it's like five, seven pieces.

[James Demoulian]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jen Cohen]

You do. Wow. So you're doing seven, you're doing 28. You're doing like at least 28 to 30 pieces of content.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

A day.

[James Demoulian]

30 plus. Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

For sure. For 10 grand.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay.

[James Demoulian]

Yep.

[Jen Cohen]

Do you Have a lot of people who are paying that a lot of people.

[James Demoulian]

Yep.

[Jen Cohen]

Okay, so there you go, you have it. Okay, so have I. What else? Okay, before I let you off here, because I'm not, I want to make sure. Did I forget anything?

[James Demoulian]

No, I mean, I, I mean if you tell me like I, I, I

[Jen Cohen]

want to make sure that before I let you go. Okay. Wait, what is the, what is the most common theme or thread that you've heard with all the different people that you've interviewed?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, I like to say billionaires think in decades, not days. So I mean every single one of them just has such a long term vision. Like I just interviewed Arthur Blank in Atlanta, who's the owner of the Falcons co founder Home Depot, which is now a $350 billion company.

[Jen Cohen]

Oh yeah.

[James Demoulian]

And he was, I remember like, you know, he got fired at 36 years old from his job. It was like a, like a hardware store he was like an executive at. And he started Home Depot and at the beginning everybody told him that he was crazy that Home Depot was going to fail because the margins were so insanely small. But again, it goes back to that concept with brand equity that like you prioritize long term thinking over short term profits. He understood that if he could scale Home Depot out to a certain point, that even though they had raised within margins, if they could get to a scale, they were doing such consistent volume that they would make a ton of money. So, so again I, that idea that billionaires think in decades, not days. I mean I remember interviewing the founder of LinkedIn and I asked him that if he had to start from zero and he had one year to make a billion dollars in his life depended on it, what would you do? And he, and he stopped me, he goes, I never play a one year game. It's at least a 10 year game. And this, all these guys like Todd Graves, like, same thing with him. Like he'll, he talked about it in our interview. He thinks in generations, like it is not like an overnight thing.

[Jen Cohen]

Right.

[James Demoulian]

And it goes in line with probably one of my favorite favorite concepts ever. Like I love vertical integration, but from a, from like a tactical mindset standpoint, this idea of macro patience and micro urgency. Macro patience, but micro urgency. So macro meaning understanding that yes, to build any great business, it is going to take a long time. There's no great business that was built overnight. So you have to have patience. If you have instant gratification. I need it now, I need the car tomorrow, I need this tomorrow. It's like like, you have to have the patience and understanding to be able to reinvest back in your company for a couple years. Right? Stay small enough long enough, and you'll be big enough soon enough. It's one of my favorite sayings ever. If you can just a couple years of reinvesting back in, growing the business, becoming profitable, like, that's great. But micro urgency, meaning every single day just taking like a ton of action, responding quick to people, that's another common thing as well. It's like these billionaires, like the wealthiest people, people like, they respond instantly. You know what I mean? It's, it's crazy. Like, people think that like, oh my God, like, oh my goodness, that person is, is so, he's, he's so rich, he's so busy. But it's like, no, like they're quick. Like if you're, if they, if they are intentional and like have something that they, they care about you, they want to do something with you, like, they will respond like that.

[Jen Cohen]

Mark Cuban is responding four and a half seconds. It was like four and a half seconds. I didn't even press send. He was at my house already. I mean, this is what I, I totally agree. And then the people who lag takes four and a half years to hear from them, they're like, I'm so busy. You're not busy at all.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. And being busy is not a flex either.

[Jen Cohen]

Exactly. It's not a flex. Exactly.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah. Being busy is not a flex. So yeah, macro patients, micro urgency is one that I, that I really like a lot. But yeah, I mean, and I mean, just again, it goes back to like they're, they're a little bit delusional, like every single one of them. Like, you know, again, I've Talked about the LinkedIn founder, like two thirds of his smart friends told him LinkedIn was going to be a failure and he was part of the PayPal Moss Mafia. So if, and those, he had people that were, that were part of, you know, guys like people like Elon Musk that are in there, Peter till, you know, all those people that were, you know, part of that organization that were like telling him pretty much like, dude, you're gonna fail with LinkedIn. But. And he did it. So you have to kind of have some sort of like delusional like self belief to like understand that despite what anybody else is saying, it has to work or it has to work. There's no other option.

[Jen Cohen]

100. Okay, last question, because I don't even know how to ask this. This, it's going to sound kind of wacky, but so people who are like my, in my age, like middle, like midlife. Right. Like when you guys are young, 20s, whatever, it's super easy to be quick with like digital and like, you know, all the stuff that tick tock and all the tools and just everything's moving fast. If someone's starting over again in their 40s or 50s and they want to start a business like and they're not very, they're not fluid in digital yet, what do you, what kind of, what kind of advice can you give somebody higher Besides hiring a 20 year old?

[James Demoulian]

Right.

[Jen Cohen]

What's a really, really good jumping off point to get somebody to start their, their business?

[James Demoulian]

Well, I mean, look, I, I, I am a big advocate of like again, partnering up with people that are like masterminds are like super skilled in that sense. So like if it isn't just kind of like hiring a random agency that you want to kind of have do that, then I would say it's like, hey, partner up. Exactly. Partner up higher up. Give some equity to somebody that can, you know, ultimately help out, you know, significantly with whatever it is that they're ultimately trying to do. If, if the customer and the avatar for whatever it is that they're trying to build is out there in the masses like on social media and it would make sense for them to ultimately do that. That's what I would say. If you want to learn it yourself, I mean there's definitely tons of, you know, resources and knowledge out there for sure. I mean it may take a while to learn, especially like if somebody's not super like technology, you know, advanced per se. But if not, then I would say definitely you're going to want to end up like partnering up with somebody who does have that skill set and knowledge of how everything works and can ultimately do that way more efficient and easier than you can can.

[Jen Cohen]

What's the next business, the next vertical, the next business that you're going to be launching?

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, well, it's more so right now I'm very focused on distribution so I want to build like one of the biggest media companies in the world. We just launched Hard Knocks Women. I don't know if you've seen that yet.

[Jen Cohen]

No.

[James Demoulian]

Oh, you got to look at it. Look it up.

[Jen Cohen]

We just launched, I did see it on YouTube that you had like a bunch of women. That was where I saw Anastasia.

[James Demoulian]

No, no, I'll show you. We launched a new channel, Hard Knocks Women. We have a, a woman host in Los Angeles. She already grew the channel to 15,000 followers in the first month. So we launched a channel called Hard Knocks Women. Hard Knocks Business. We have two new hosts for those channels. Like, I'm. I'm. My big focus right now is trying to, like, just grow more channels under the Hard Knocks umbrella to just try and continue to create, like, such, like a big, like, media, you know, kind of empire. What you were talking about earlier in the episode. So, you know, we've got 22 million followers now, but I want to get to 30, I want to get to 40, I want to get to 50, and like, like, I can get there by myself. It may take a little bit of time, but when you get there faster is like, by getting other channels and, you know, probably start to acquire some channels and like, just kind of playing. Playing the media game long term for sure.

[Jen Cohen]

How did I miss that? Okay, I got to go. Look at that.

[James Demoulian]

Check it out.

[Jen Cohen]

All right, James, you've been amazing.

[James Demoulian]

Thank you.

[Jen Cohen]

This has been like. I'm telling you, this is such a treat to have you here. Can't even believe you have Hard Knocks Women. I have no. I had no idea.

[James Demoulian]

And you ask great questions as well. Like, I always, you know, I've done a lot of, like, podcasts and like, I mean, I don't want to say I've done any, like, bad interviews, but, like, it was like, really, really good questions for sure. Very tactical questions. Like, and I always like to, like, compliment, like, other interviewers on that.

[Jen Cohen]

Thank you.

[James Demoulian]

Because, I mean, there's a lot that just kind of are very broad and whatnot. But, like, the way that you went very tactical, especially on the social media stuff was like, top level. So seriously, thank you.

[Jen Cohen]

That's a huge compliment coming from you.

[James Demoulian]

Definitely.

[Jen Cohen]

I'm going to clip that. Even though you won't collaborate with me, you said, but thank you and hopefully I'll see. I'm going to ask you some more questions if you don't mind, but next time you're in la, I would love to see you again. Possible.

[James Demoulian]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jen Cohen]

Thank you. And if you guys are living under a rock and don't know who he is, you should follow him. At the school of Hard Knocks, he just basically said, YouTube, Tik Tok, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, on the moon, everywhere you can find this guy and all of his verticals. I cannot believe you have Hard Knocks Women and you didn't even call me to be your host. I'm very offended, but we'll talk about that after. Thank you so much for having me. Bye.