Episode 575: Dr. Jonathan Schoeff: Peptides and the Marketing Behind Modern Longevity - Part 2

Summary

Habits and Hustle – Episode 575

Dr. Jonathan Schoeff: Peptides and the Marketing Behind Modern Longevity – Part 2

Host: Jennifer Cohen
Guest: Dr. Jonathan Scheffler, Surgeon & Longevity Expert
Date: July 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In Part 2 of Jennifer Cohen’s conversation with Dr. Jonathan Scheffler, the duo delves deep into the science and misconceptions behind GLP-1s, fasting, muscle loss, testosterone, biomarkers, movement, and trending longevity metrics. Dr. Scheffler’s unique approach consistently returns to actionable, evidence-based basics, demystifying popular health strategies and dissecting marketing hype in the wellness space. Listeners are offered practical insight on what truly moves the needle for healthspan and lifespan.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. GLP-1s: Fat Loss and Muscle Preservation

• Clarifying GLP-1 Effects

  • Dr. Scheffler distinguishes between lean body mass loss and muscle loss, referencing the STEP 1 trial for semaglutide.
  • Quote:

    “No one lost 40% of their muscle. That’s not reality. It's lean tissue … includes organ mass. So, losing liver fat is very good.” (04:00)

  • Important Insight:
    Misinterpretation of clinical data has led to the false belief that GLP-1 agonists like semaglutide "chew up muscle." The reality is more nuanced, especially concerning body composition changes.

• Optimal Use and Abuse

  • Abuse and misunderstanding, especially in fitness circles, led to misuse—but GLP-1s can be powerfully effective when combined with other strategies.
  • Quote:

    “Ozempic’s like an anorexic’s best friend … abused at an extreme level.” (04:29)

2. Fasting: Strategy, Benefits, and Gender Differences

• Fasting to Optimize Metabolic Flexibility

  • Water-only fasts (≥24 hours) are framed as powerful activators for repair pathways and key for longevity.
  • Quote:

    “The most powerful tool we have to tell the body it's repair time is fasting. No, not intermittent fasting, but legitimate sustained water-only fasting greater than 24 hours.” (10:30)

  • Fasting zeroes out insulin, triggers ketosis, and accelerates autophagy.
  • Movement during and after meals further enhances fat mobilization.

• Fasting Protocols: Individualization with Data

  • Continuous glucose and ketone monitoring (e.g., Sibio, Quinn Labs) allow for precision and individual adaptation.
  • Fast duration should be driven by ketone data, not arbitrary time frames.
  • Quote:

    “Your body actually will tell you the exact prime time duration of your fast. And it will change over time.” (18:22)

• Fasting for Women

  • Dr. Scheffler debunks the idea that fasting is inappropriate or harmful for women, noting the coming advances in hormone tracking will provide even more nuance.

3. Movement as the Central Pillar of Longevity

• Post-Meal Movement: Game Changer

  • Advocates movement (especially brisk walking, ideally 60–75 minutes post last meal) as a crucial tool for managing glucose and insulin.
  • Quote:

    “Movement around meals is the true game changer. Muscle is a glucose management system … If you move after a meal … the glucose pours into that [muscle] without an insulin response.” (34:14)

• Functional Metrics Over Hype

  • Critiques the overreliance on grip strength as a marker for longevity (“irrelevant to the human”). Champions lower body strength (sit-to-stand movements, walking lunges with kettlebells) as more predictive of independence and longevity.
  • Quote:

    “Grip strength is a surrogate marker … Proximal lower extremity muscle strength wins every time.” (68:32)

4. Testosterone & Hormonal Health

• Testosterone Use, Misuse, and Myths
  • Scheffler shares personal context for testosterone therapy—following severe stress and metabolic dysfunction.
  • Points out the causal dynamic between metabolic health, obesity, and testosterone levels.
  • Warns against social media’s normalization of unnecessary or reckless anabolic use, distinguishing between “physiologic testosterone” (as a tool) and supraphysiologic dosing.
  • Quote:

    “The number one cause of hypogonadal hypogonadism, low testosterone in men today is metabolic dysfunction.” (44:13) “Once you test, if that guy's free testosterone's 3, 4, 5 … he does not have the signal to support muscle growth.” (55:26)

  • Emphasizes tracking free testosterone, not just total.

5. Biomarkers and Tracking the Right Metrics

• Underutilized Markers
  • Fasting insulin, free testosterone, lipoprotein(a), apoB are highlighted as crucial yet often neglected.
  • Genetic risk (e.g., high lipoprotein(a)) doesn’t always present physically but matters greatly for long-term risk.
  • Quote:

    “LP little A, apoB … these tests are the ones that I think get left off.” (57:16)

6. Peptides & Supplements: Evidence vs. Hype

• Growth Hormone Peptides
  • Tessamorelin is named the most potent, effective GH peptide (over semorelin, CJC-1295), with tangible, measurable impacts.
  • Quote:

    “Tessamorelin, by far and away the most potent.” (79:01)

• NAD, NR, NMN
  • Says supplementing with NR (nicotinamide riboside) is the most effective means for supporting cellular NAD, preferring it over IV NAD for building long-term intracellular levels.
  • Quote:

    “NR should be your threshold, that should be your baseline … more is better.” (85:23)

• Amino Acids & Fasting
  • Essential aminos are critical around training, especially leucine for its anabolic and insulinogenic profile; however, they will break a fast due to an insulin response.
  • Quote:

    “Leucine triggers insulin. … Essential amino acids will kick you out of [ketosis].” (92:27)

7. Mindset, Social Habits, and Nutrition

• Urges people to view food as fuel, not as emotional comfort (“I'm going to be the guy that causes a divorce [from food] … enjoying your food 100%, dependent on your food—that’s very different.”) (06:58)
• Recognizes the profound effect of lifestyle, stress, and life events on metabolic health and empathy for those struggling with weight gain.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fasting’s Simplicity & Power:

  “Just fast, shut up and fast. … And guess what? It's free. In fact, actually, you save money.” (21:07)

• On Longevity Metrics:

  “We’ve gotten so off the rails. Grip strength is not going to prevent you from falling off a toilet and dying.” (66:32)

• On Practical Longevity Advice:

  “If you want to talk about what moves the needle, it’s movement—100%.” (100:10)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:49 | Misconceptions around GLP-1s and muscle loss explained | | 10:30 | Role of fasting in repair pathways and longevity | | 18:22 | Fasting duration should be driven by ketones, not time | | 34:14 | Why post-meal movement matters so much | | 42:00 | Dr. Scheffler describes personal journey and impact of trauma on health | | 55:26 | Physiological disadvantage of low testosterone | | 57:16 | Biomarkers many doctors ignore: LP(a), apoB, free testosterone | | 66:32 | “Grip strength is a surrogate … irrelevant to the human” | | 79:01 | Tessamorelin as most potent GH peptide | | 92:27 | Leucine and essential amino acids will end ketosis | | 100:10 | “If you want to talk about what moves the needle, it's movement—100%.” |

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Takeaways, Tone, and Recommendations

Dr. Scheffler’s tone is direct, data-driven, and refreshingly skeptical of fads and marketing. He advocates for simplifying health interventions: prioritize protein, eliminate added sugar, move (especially around meals), engage in meaningful fasting, and look beyond superficial biomarkers.

• Movement: Anchor your day around movement; brisk postprandial walks are especially powerful.
• Fasting: Use real-time data (ketone monitors) to individualize fasting; combine with strength training for maximal fat loss and metabolic flexibility.
• Metrics: Assess what’s actually meaningful for your health and longevity—free testosterone, fasting insulin, and genetic lipid markers trump fancy wearables or surface metrics.
• Supplements & Peptides: Stick to what’s proven. When unsure, ask “can we measure the difference?” If not, skepticism is warranted.
• Mindset: Food should be viewed as fuel, but cultural and social context matters. Know the line between enjoyment and dependency.

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Listener Action Steps

• Consider a structured, data-driven fasting protocol with movement and protein emphasis.
• Discuss fasting insulin, free testosterone, and LP(a)/apoB with your doctor.
• Reframe grip strength; focus more on lower body and functional strength.
• Be wary of advice from social media influencers who lack medical accountability.
• Question every new longevity trend—does it have clear, reproducible, organism-level results?

To be continued:
Dr. Scheffler promises to return for Part 3, with deeper dives into fasting, peptides, hormonal health, and fielding listener questions.

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Follow Habits and Hustle for practical, evidence-based strategies that cut through the hype and help you focus on the habits that matter most for your health and performance.

Transcript

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Welcome to the Habits and Hustle podcast, where I sit down with the world's biggest thinkers, entrepreneurs, athletes, and experts to uncover the habits, strategies, and mindset shifts that actually move the needle in your health, happiness, and success. And today, I'm back with Dr. Jonathan Scheffler, a surgeon, longevity expert, and co founder of the Longevity Lab, who is still very actively practicing medicine. I should say. After part one, we knew there was a way too much leftover that we had to keep on going. In this part of the conversation, we get into this stuff everyone is talking about but very few people actually understand, which is GLP1s, muscle loss, fasting, testosterone, biomarkers, grip strength, movement, sleep, longevity metrics, which are actually worth paying attention to. What I love about Dr. Jonathan is that he does not make health more complicated to sound smart. He breaks it down in a way that makes you question the trend, understand the mechanism, and come back to the basics that actually moves the needle. What he shares in this episode will change the way you think about GLP1's fasting muscle and health markers that you should actually be tracking. So let's dive in. Enjoy. Yeah. No matter what.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Then you can. Yeah. Then you can.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Are they all skin better that you like?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I do like the skin better Formulations. I know it's, it's.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I know it's goofy. Yeah. No. Why is it goofy? It's not goofy.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Oh, well, because as. As a guy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

As a guy. Right. Well, you're like very, you know, you take care of yourself.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, I'm. I'm taken care of. That's. That's how it works.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, well, I do what I'm told. You don't. Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I do what I'm told.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, it's working. Okay, now we can get into the GLP1 stuff.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you said that retatrutide is. You want any of these GLPs life changing?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, I've used all of them.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You have used all of them?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Absolutely. Well, well, semaglutide and, and, and up. So semaglutide, tirzepatide, retatrutide. I've used all of them.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So if people are having like. So this between triazepatide and retatrutide, I know one works on two receptors, one works on three receptors. So you believe it's a tool and you don't believe everyone should be on them, even though you're talking about the insulin resistance and to build muscle so here comes the contradiction, right?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Totally.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So if muscle is the biggest longevity organ to keep your insulin low.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yet GLP1s have been obviously known to like break down muscle and eat away at your muscle.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

They've been blamed. They've been alleged. Alleged, yes. Let's use that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, so you don't think that the

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

GLP1, it's not that simple. No, no. Well, I mean I know the data. Okay, so if you look at the step one trial, which was the first semaglutide weight loss trial, 20, 21. Okay, what did it demonstrate? This is really important. 40% loss of lean body mass. LBM. So the problem is, and I just saw a post on this just the other day, lean body mass is not skeletal muscle. Okay. They're not the same thing. The 40% is lean body mass. So if you want to make the argument or say you're a personal trainer to get your hustle and, or you want to do some peptides, this then the other, then you say, oh my gosh, 40% loss of skeletal muscle. No, it's lean body mass. And realize that lean body mass includes skeletal muscle as one component. In healthy fit individuals that may, may reach the 50% mark. In other words, 50% of your lean body mass in a very fit, well muscled individual can be skeletal muscle. Okay, that's in a really fit person.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yep.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So it goes down from there. In other words, no one lost 40% of their muscle. That's not reality. So it's, it's lean tissue. So it excludes fat mass, but it also includes organ mass. So non alcoholic fatty liver disease, which is what, what retatrutide a hundred percent reduced their, their fatty liver, which is, that's a game changer from a health perspective. In that case that's a part of lean body mass. So losing, improving the metabolic function of your liver, losing liver fat is a very good thing. And that's lean body mass too. So it's just not as clean as, you know, Ozempic chews up muscle. Okay, Now I do agree that early on, and this was the age old story with any drug misuse and abuse, that's always what brings it down. So yes, when personal trainers and nurses and all these people were handing out Ozempic without any clarity, any reason, bear in mind Ozempic's like an anorexic's best friend. I mean it was abused at an extreme level. I think it still is. But the thing about semaglutide was that by far and away it's the most profound appetite suppressant. So. Yes. Were people starving? Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at the scientific literature, the nutrition literature about highly restrictive dieting, you can lose up to 75% of lean body mass. How do we know that? All you gotta do is watch the Biggest Loser.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right? You can just like. Exactly. So you can say that. So it's. It's because the app, you're just not eating.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If you're. If you, if you're in a profound calorie deficit from restriction, whether you're called an anorexic or someone on semaglutide. Yes, you risk muscle. I agree with that. But it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, I think GLPs create a very unique environment to actually augment muscle. I mean, what I see in my practice every day with, with our protocols is literally pure fat loss. They don't lose a pound of muscle and they lose pure fat. Strategic fasting, I mean, that's the secret sauce. But. But GLPs fit incredibly well into that overall strategy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Wait a minute. So strategic fasting, is there a way to fast where you can only. Where you only lose fat and not.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, 100% muscle. 100%. I've got. I mean, I could line them up.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, you're fasting now, right?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I am fasting now, yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How long are you fasting for?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Oh, just fast for the day. Just so whatever you want to call that, I. So I call it 24 hour fasting, technically, maybe 34, 36. It doesn't matter a ton to me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, but are you a person who doesn't care about food?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No. You mean, like, how do you make that?

[Jennifer Cohen]

What I mean by that.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Not a foodie.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. But like, so you're someone who maybe like, sees food as fuel.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Not as, like, as friend.

[Jennifer Cohen]

As friend.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I think all people should see food as fuel, not as friend. You have to look. And this is one of the conversations. So when I meet a new client, what did you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Because I love food.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I know. So I'll tell you a true story.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I had a client several years ago. I asked, I said, what's your relationship with food? She said, I have a very loving marriage with food. I said, well, I'm going to be the guy that causes a divorce. But food, remember there. What's your relationship with food? Alcohol? Anything on the list? Yes. Do they all have the potential to have detrimental health effects?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Sure.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Does that mean they're detrimental to your health in existence? No, not at all. I do try to help people retool their thought process around food as primarily a fuel. It's a fuel. First enjoying your food a hundred percent. I'm all for it. Being dependent on your food. That's very different and right. I think that's the line that gets blurred in America.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, wait a minute. Okay, so there's okay, fat. You're like so fasting to you. Why is it so important? And how do you do it where you can maintain your, your lean muscle mass.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And if someone's not a faster, how do they become a faster when they love food and like they can't even imagine not eating and use it as an energy source? Like, I don't know if you're someone who's an actual. If you work out a lot or you're super active. The idea of not eating is super difficult for me.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It can be. Yeah, it can be for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Now you can answer all those questions. I know.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Like, I gotta remember. Okay, so why fast? First of all, it is the most potent, powerful activator of a biologic pathway called ampk A M P K. You've heard of, let's see all the, the, the amp. Have you heard of rapamycin? Yes, that's, that's the big ATI thing. Okay, so rapamycin in upregulates, AMP K. That's why you would take it. So it shuts down mtor, which is a growth pathway. There's in the body, there's growth and repair. Let's make it super simple. Yin and yang, right? You can have, they can be coincident. You can be doing activities minute to minute that are favoring growth while also allowing for repair. But as we age, as you can imagine, you technically, and this is what all the longitudinal data would, would say is you need relatively more time to repair because there's. Just think of it, basically, there's more opportunity for error. What is cancer? It's unchecked growth by definition. So if we don't allow that time for repair, the body can be exclusively based in this, in a, in a growth mode. What, what you see right now in longevity as a whole, right? You have two camps. Think of it very simply. You have an MTOR camp like a Gabrielle Lyon. Grow, grow, grow Muscle, muscle, muscle, leucine, insulin, everything to activate growth, which I have a huge profound respect for. Gabrielle Lyon and what she's done, like women's health, just inspiring people. But that high protein resistance training, progressive overload, that's a growth mindset. Then you see the other camp, which is the repair mindset. So that's that growth is MTOR growth. MTOR repair. A M, P, K. I know it's geeky, but that repair pathway, what does someone who embraces repair pathways look like? Okay, they fast a lot. Ketogenic diets, so and so they're typically frail. Does that make sense?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I mean, I don't like that mindset. I'd rather be on the growth side.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Correct. So this is the challenge. You have to be both. It doesn't work in isolation. So we've entered a very extreme time. And this is why some people are spouting off like, oh, what's gonna come from all the high protein rage? Now I don't have those concerns. I think invariably when you look at average protein consumption for an American is so low that increasing that there's no harm attached to it. But this is what makes me a longevity expert, is I understand the potential detriment of growth and repair. And I use those two pathways strategically. Instead of being at the mercy of the human body and human biology, we should be able to actually strategically control these mechanisms. The most powerful tool we have to tell the body its repair time is fasting. No, not intermittent fasting, but legitimate sustained water only fasting greater than 24 hours. Okay, so we can use that mechanism. I can fast on a Saturday and do a complete reset in my body so that my. Our end game is something called metabolic flexibility. I know this is geeky, but we've talked about metabolic flexibility is synonymous in the human body. The best example of metabolic flexibility in human body is insulin sensitivity. What metabolic flexibility is this? It is the most efficient use of fuel sources based on condition and environmental need. So using fat when you're not running from a bear or the cops and using carbs when you need rapidly available fuel. This is the limitation with the ketogenic diet. Eliminating carbs is not the answer.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, okay, but wait, so you're see what I'm saying? I do.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But wait, so it's all a spectrum. It's a spectrum.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's a spectrum. So you're saying though.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay, so do you need another shot?

[Jennifer Cohen]

I do. Really? I think I need like a box of these shots.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I think I have one.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I think you do. Exactly. You have it in your bag. So basically then you're saying that we should be fasting for longer than 24 hours. Not a water, like you're saying it's a water fast. You can have water. Basically, that's what you're drinking.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Oh, yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you didn't fast because you Had a magic mind.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, but I looked at the ingredients. Yeah. It has allulose in it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you're allowed to have things on your fast?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sure. Zero calorie, zero carbohydrate for sure. So yeah, no non nutritive. So allulose is a non nutritive sweetener.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So that little magic mind shot has 50 calories. Okay, so that's okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So what are you allowed to have on a fast? Coffee.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I say black coffee.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But why? Why could you put some cream in then?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Because of the impact of fat on the fast. Now it has less of an impact, but there is an element of energy balance that influence a fast.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, so why can you have a magic mind on a fast?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Because there's nothing in it was just what we. I was looking at lion's mane rhodiola. So a great blend of of nutraceuticals, vitamins, minerals, and then allulose is a non nutritive sweetener.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So basically people can have that on a fast.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sure. Yeah. You want a five hour energy, go nuts. You want a Celsius, be my guest. I don't know what, Whatever you like to do. I would strong. So on a fast, I recommended my clients. Minimum of 400 grams of caffeine or 400 milligrams. Excuse me? Minimum of 400 milligrams caffeine. Okay. Somewhere between for my male clients, usually 4 to 600 milligrams. That's a reasonable threshold for a woman, probably in the 2, 400 range. Okay, so definitely caffeine because it's an accelerant for fat burning. Okay, so we want the key. This is the way it works and this is why it's so simple. Okay. This is the crux of fasting and I can explain why. So why do we fast? We fast to first and foremost reset the system, force the body into one condition and one condition only, which is ultimately defined by ketosis or ketone production. But that's not why we're doing it. We're doing it to zero out our insulin levels for that period of time. Insulin is the gatekeeper. So if you're into the aesthetic body comp goals, fast. If you're into the autophagy clearance of senescent zombie cells, fast. If you're into long term health, healthspan lifespan, longevity, by definition, fast. It's all fasting. But fasting physiology, what drives it above all else is normalizing insulin. So when you have insulin, it's fascinating. Insulin is very, very, very engaging with fat cells. And insulin Is pretty simple. It's a master switch. And this is. Oh, this is going to bring us full circle to retatrutide. Why does red. What makes it so unique? So we talk about insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is a byproduct of a failed system. Lifestyle mediated. Insulin itself is not bad at all. Think of you. Remember Goonies? Did you ever see a movie? Yeah, you know sloth. I don't remember you. Chunk. Yeah, yeah, you know Chunks, the big old guy. The one the guy they kept in the basement. Yeah, the sloth. I had to look that name up by. Think of insulin as sloth. He's like the big dumb older brother. He's not intelligent, but he's highly protective.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's what insulin is to the human body. It's protecting the human body from the most toxic poisonous agent. This is a true statement. That exists in circulation, which is glucose.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, I said it. Yes, you did say it.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But that doesn't have anything to. Don't.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's not carbs, that's not sugar. It's glucose in your bloodstream.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How often do you fast?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It depends on what? My current. The period that I'm in at any given time. So I will always fast intermittently, whether it be weekly, monthly duration changes. But if I'm in a structured growth period. So I'm my training, intensity, rep range, nutrition. Right now I'm on a 1.2 grams per pound protein intake, so everything's geared towards muscle growth. I'm anticipating probably about a three month interval. Okay. So during that period the focus is growth. I'll use fasting once a week or every other week just to make sure that I'm accounting for that repair upgrade.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And how long are you doing it for? 36 hours you said.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Typically it's 34 to 36 hours. And here's why. The problem with fasting, why does it go sideways? It's because no one knows what they're actually trying to accomplish. What you. I think you were saying this like I know people who fasted seven days, 10 days, five days.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's a five day fast to clean out the senescent cells. Autophagy. That's what I.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But, but, but how do we know that's happening in five days? Because I will prove it to you. If you look at my clinical data, that's for some people. In five days of fasting they still haven't cleared their glucose store sufficient to induce ketosis, which is ketosis, autophagy are linked linked pathways. Five days. Someone. I had a client whose fasting glucose was still above a hundred. Do you know what? That, that is insane. We live in a over fueled, undermoving society. Okay? Obesity is a disease. It's a pathology of over fueling. Right. And so if you're over fueled, under muscled and you don't move, welcome to America. That's the problem.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So for some people you're saying five

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

days might not touch them? Yes, 100%.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So they go two weeks.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, who knows, right? It's if would you ever get into an airplane where you know full well the instrument panels out? No, of course not. No one's going to do that. So that's exactly what you're doing. When you randomly pick a number that you heard Joe Rogan talk about and fast for X number of days, there's zero data. The difference, the crux of the whole conversation is that your body actually will tell you the exact prime time duration of your fast. And it will change over time. It should.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So how do you know for you?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I follow Serum ketones tells me exactly where I need to be.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So how do people do this?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, right now I'll tell you two things. One option is poking your finger. If you've ever seen like a diabetic poke their finger. Okay. That's old school.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

There is a product made by sibio S I B I O. It is the first continuous ketone monitor. People wear glucose monitors.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Now I'm wearing a glucose monitor. Continually checking glucose and continually checking ketones. That has totally changed.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You're wearing them right now?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Not, not currently, no. But I'm not wearing.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, no, I don't have. Because I ripped my monitors off pushing a sled the other day.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I was kind of irritated. My, my guy was beating me down and, and I was just like. And I ripped them all out. So anyway, I, I got to put new ones on and I don't wear them all the time. Just use the. This is the criticism around CGM and the general population. Oh my gosh. You know, people are just getting a bunch of data. Well, if it, if it's data that is understood and interpreted and applied, it's incredibly valuable. If it's just numbers on a sheet, sure. It's worthless.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, so if someone just starts today, would you just say just do 24 hours, 36 hours?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, we have no, it's about the

[Jennifer Cohen]

goal and the very clean up senescent cells.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And they want for body composition and they want all reset. Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right. So the relationship very plainly and I Will be honest, as a purist, I don't have human data, specifically antiseinescent data or autophagy based data. Very hard to do outside of like academic lab. But the clearest correlation through a common pathway of amp k upregulation is that more ketones equals more autophagy. It's a very simple way to look at it. So your speedometer, your right is all the same. Right? So if that speedometer is going up, you're producing more ketones. You are by definition accelerating autophagy while you're also accelerating fat burn. The beauty is you're getting lean and fit and looking your best while you're clearing the bad stuff. This is why it drives me nuts. All the longevity experts are like, biohack this, biohack that. Just fast, shut up and fast. You'll be just fine, really. And guess what? It's free. In fact, actually, you save money. My fasts. If you saw the amount of food I eat on a regular basis, my fast saves me a hundred bucks at least. Easy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I mean, you're not hungry? No. Not even slightly? Not even slightly.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Are you able to work out on that though?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Good question. So, yes and no. I will be very strategic about focusing. So movement is everything during a fast. Okay, let's do this. So if you'll buy that there is a directed relationship. More ketones, more autophagy. So that's your ultimate longevity tool. More ketones only comes from one source. There's not like option A or B.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If you have ketones in your bloodstream, they're coming from fat being broken down into free fatty acids and distributed in the bloodstream. This is the mechanism with which it happens. Okay. And the only thing that controls that is insulin. How do we know that to be true? Well, look at a type 1 diabetic. Do you know what kills type 1 diabetics acutely is something called diabetic ketoacidosis. When you have no insulin in your bloodstream, your fat just starts getting chewed through. More fat in the bloodstream, which is what we want, right? Fat burn. You want to be lean, fit equals more ketones. It's a linear relationship. Does it?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, no, I'm following you. Does that mean the same for. But women and men are different?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yes, it means the exact same. No, women and men are humans, so it doesn't matter. Sorry.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So I thought, like, women is different with hormones and all these things.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

We'd like you to believe that. Okay, this is another aside. Stay with me. There is something on the Horizon. Okay. That is going to transform our understanding of women's health. There's a company called Quinn Labs. Okay. I met their founder. Oh. At some A4M event, I think.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You go to A4M?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What are you going there for?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

To learn.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I want to know what's. What's.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Do you speak there?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm. I'm hopeful. I submitted my application. I'm hopeful to speak this year.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. Oh.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

At Longevity Fest.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah. I really. I. I clearly have a lot to say.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Clearly.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I don't hold back.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, no.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

And I can put a crowd to sleep with the monotone.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. No, no, no, you're doing great. You're not putting me to sleep. I do need another magic mic. No, sorry, go ahead.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So the. The relationship, though, is very clear. So I just. What I stress to people is you have knowledge. It's not the duration, it's the intensity. Just like it's not the duration of exercise, it's the intensity. Right. If you can accomplish whatever muscle growth, that is max benefit for your aesthetic, for your performance, Alpha. So in 30 minutes versus an hour, which do you pick?

[Jennifer Cohen]

30, of course.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If you could put a million dollars in your bank account in one month, guaranteed. Or. Or you could kind of slave away for the next five years and maybe,

[Jennifer Cohen]

of course, a month. Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So the only thing I haven't proven yet, which is where. Where I'm headed with this in my clinical practice, is that indeed, the intensity of ketosis correlates to the intensity of autophagy. Meaning the higher the ketosis, the higher the autophagy. So what if you could do max cellular cleanup? That the literature, the scientific evidence says five to seven days of non eating. If you could accomplish that in 34 hours. I'm doing 34 hours every time. It's a no brainer. Because the problem with prolonged fasting is starvation physiology. Cortisol spikes. Cortisol is the most catabolic hormone in the body. Start breaking down muscle. And the tragedy is, and this is why I monitor for all my clients, we monitor glucose and ketones because I can tell you when your cortisol spikes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

On a dime. Well, your glucose spikes. And guess what happens when your glucose spikes?

[Jennifer Cohen]

What?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Insulin. And guess what happens when insulin happens? No more fat burn and you're done. So people are going through a fast. They may have a cortisol dump, shift into what's called. I would call it starvation physiology. But they start breaking down muscle in producing glucose in the bloodstream. Insulin hits and all Of a sudden their ketones go to zero.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you're saying women like premenopausal women with hormones and all these things should be fasting.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Absolutely. Trillion percent. A trillion percent. And I'll tell you, so this goes back. So what's Quinn Labs doing? Right, they're bringing a wearable to market. It's going to start as a finger stick, just like I'm talking about for ketones. So write these things down. Sibio, continuous ketone monitoring. Going to change the world. Quinn Labs. Essentially, continuous or frequent interval estrogen and cortisol. This is going to be transformative for our understanding because right now it's all theory, right? You've got the one influencer that's like, oh, don't work out during your luteal phase and this and that. I mean, I get that your hormones are changing, but the beauty is you want to have a fail safe. You want to have a 00 guide to say, I don't care what's going on in your body. Are you producing ketones? That's the answer. So do I have women fast in their luteal phase and generate a high grade ketosis? Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Wow. Okay, so you're saying.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But does that mean every woman does it? No, but the beauty is all I have to do is check one number to tell you. So if a woman starts their fast, regardless. So my female clients, once a week, Every week, six weeks. So they go through the entire cycle. Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So once a week you recommend to people to fast.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

The, the accelerator protocol, what we, we call the accelerate metabolic accelerator is a once per week for six weeks protocol. And after that, then you do a six week recovery. So aggressive repletion of glycogen as your priority and then shift back to a balanced nutritive state.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So every. So every six weeks.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So you could. The way it's one on one week, what, every six on six.

[Jennifer Cohen]

On. Yeah, six on six, minimum.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yep.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Wow.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yep. You can do that. So the targeted. Oh my gosh. If I, if I pulled out my before and afters, okay. This is the data in my practice. And by the way, I can record data in my practice. And it does count as data.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Just because it's not in a scientific article that's published, doesn't make it not real.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So reproducibly in my client base, six weeks on average, six week, that's one cycle. 50%. 5, 0. They lose half their total body fat. 50% by doing this back and forth.

[Jennifer Cohen]

6.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no, no. By just doing one. One single six week protocol, 50% total body fat up to 75% visceral fat. And that's the secret.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's amazing.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's the trick. So you asked me first off, can you only lose fat doing doing strategic fasting? The answer is absolutely yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Let me share my daily routine game changer with you. It's the Momentous3. I've been using their protein, their creatine and omega 3 combo for months now and the results are undeniable. These nutrients are key for long term health and performance, but hard to get enough of through diet alone. The crea pure creatine boosts both physical and your mental performance. The grass fed whey tastes great with no weird aftertaste. And and the Omega 3 is a must for recovery. Since adding these my energy, my recovery and my overall well being has really improved. So if you want better performance, this is the way to go. Visit livemomentous.com and use my code Jen for 35% off your first subscription. That's livemomentous.com code Jen for 35% off your 1st subscription. Trust me, you'll be happy you did. Okay, so let's say tomorrow I'm going to fast.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. I can drink coffee.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And then I go from 8 o' clock on Sunday to even 8:30 on Monday. Will that be okay?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If you want those results that I'm describing, do it once a week. Extremely structured. Way more structured than that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You just said I could have coffee, I could have magic mind, what else?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But it's all what you do going into the fast, during the fast and exiting.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, okay, okay. So what is the strategy that we should do? I know, I'm sure. Listen, by the way, I'm not at all surprised.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

This is a shameless plug. True story. We are wrapping up development of an entirely freestanding fasting module based on our entire experience, clinical experience, myself and one of my partners. So we're building out a standalone full on, full on educational module that will support clients through the entire fasting journey down to. I mean it's literally down to the minute. Because what happens is what I'm talking about. Would you get results from doing what you just said? Yes, you would? I think they'd be somewhat unpredictable. I don't know what we would do with it. But I can tell you the key is looking at every week there's a three day period that we gotta lock in the other four days. I need you training standard, max intensity. Like we've talked. Eat whatever you want. I don't care what calories the carbs. I mean fuel with a purpose. Consume calories to maintain output. But for three days every week for a six week period, you have a pre fast fast and post fast day.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Tell me what it is.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Pre fast, very pure and simple. Rapidly deplete glycogen at the end of the day. Pre fast is about dropping your insulin as low as you can get while still consuming food. That's the prep, right? And what I said was if we've got insulin in the bloodstream, forget about it, don't bother.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So how do we get rid of it?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So ideal is your morning, AM to midday. You need to get your major lift. So your heaviest lift of the week comes on your pre fast day. That's how we structure it. So if you told me, hey, every Wednesday I do legs cardiometabolic. That's usually what it is. It's a lower extremity or whole body. It's a big lift because lifting is what consumes massive amounts of glycogen. So heavy resistance, progressive overload, big movements. 45 minutes to an hour before 2pm on your pre fast day.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Earlier is better. Following your training session. That's the only time where I'm lasered on zero carb. You cannot have any carbs after your training session so you can eat up till 6pm fat and protein only. At 6pm we cut off all food. Okay, now here's the secret sauce. After that last meal of the day, you have to to move. Movement is medicine. Yes. Movement around meals is the, is the true game changer. So we have that 6pm meal, 60, 75 minute brisk walk. That's all you need.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How long?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

60 to 75 minutes. So for me that's when I return my emails. It's when I do all my dosing and prescriptions. I just sit and walk. I walk on a walking pad, super

[Jennifer Cohen]

easy for an hour after dinner.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yes. And if you folks, you want to know if you changed three things today to radically transform your body, that's all you're going to change. Okay? Movement is medicine. 100% anchor everything in protein. Protein is the non negotiable and eliminate added sugar. I don't care what else you do. I do not care about your calorie consumption because if you're eating whole foods, you just can't consume the absurdity of people that oh I'm, I'm. Oh you know I, I ate 10,000 calories. No you didn't. I mean do you know how hard it is if you're eating whole food now, if you're drinking milkshakes, of course, but eliminate the added sugar. Okay. That's a non negotiable everything. Anchors in protein, your day and your meals. Protein first. Okay. And then the last piece is move around meals. It is a game changer if we talk about insulin resistance and how to augment glucose curves, because that is the key driver. Glucose stimulates insulin secretion, period. Done. Do other things do it too? Yes, absolutely. But the workhorse is glucose. So if you can moderate your glucose excursions, how high, how long and how often, you will indeed be healthier metabolically. That's just real life. No one's. There's no debating it. And yet people get on these crazy train things like, oh, you know, you're saying no carbs. No, I'm not. I'm saying know what's happening in your body and use it to your advantage.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Brisk walking.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yep.

[Jennifer Cohen]

After every meal.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

And if you could only do it once in a day.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Do it after your last meal of the day.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, but we looked at it. This was. No, no, this goes back to Lumen. We were talking about Lumen when Lumen was initially founded and they were looking at their early data. The one single best predictor of entering fat burn mode while you were sleeping was movement after the last meal of the day. Why? Because it's. It's such an incredibly powerful tool. Muscle is not a metabolic engine. Have you used that term? Like burns more calories, more muscle does burn. Okay, that's true. So I used to say it's a metabolic engine, but we need to reframe that conversation. Much higher level muscle is a glucose management system. Let muscle decide how glucose is utilized. Muscle cells can store glucose and they can use it as a fuel. I'm not smarter than your body, but if you move after a meal, you create channels, openings in your muscle, real time, actively, and the glucose pours into that without an insulin response. So in effect, what you're doing by moving after your last meal of the day is you're normalizing your insulin levels.

[Jennifer Cohen]

An hour to 75 minutes is a lot.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It is. I get that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's a lot.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I get it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. People have to go to work the next day, their kids, whatever it is, can. 30 minutes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Have you heard of a family walk or.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, no, sorry. Explain that to me.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

My little. My little girl, she. I would always take my son on a walk, and if she gets left out, she goes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I'm sure she is.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

She will Come flying out of the house screaming, like, bawling.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Do you try to leave me? Anyway, you could do a family. Yeah, I agree.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm just saying. Can you do it to 30 minutes?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Totally. Totally. Here's where I would kind of push back a little bit again if you want those results that I'm describing, pure fat loss, high grade, short period of time. That pre fast, post meal walk needs to be 60, 75 minutes. So like I'm saying, so I'm talking about what you do just on that one, two days in your entire week.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. That's fantastic.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's manageable.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's bad, right? Okay, yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But I agree with you that in every night, 60, 75. Yeah. Probably not practice.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Let me ask you a question. Maybe are you on testosterone, though?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I do take testosterone.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

See, because.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

And you know the reason I don't. So I. Yeah. I don't have no. Any secrets.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I maintain you're super fit. How old are you? 46? 47? 48.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Almost 48.

[Jennifer Cohen]

48. Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

48 in a couple weeks and you're ripped.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I went through your Instagram before you got here.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Smoke and mirrors.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Listen, smoke and. I don't know. I don't know if you can fake that.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's all AI.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It is. And you're doing AI. But I'm saying. So you're telling me, were you naturally this way?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Genetically, no.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, not at all. You gotta. Oh, my gosh. I mean, my freshman season in college.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, no, no, no, no. You can't say that because everyone gains weight in college. But.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no. Well, I was gonna say I came into College weighing 145 pounds.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I thought you were skinny.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I was like, okay, that's a cough and I would fall over.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. But that's. When you're thin, genetically, it's much easier to. To build muscle. You weren't a fat kid, basically.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no, that's. I guess that's true. Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You were not a fat kid.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, but because you are. You're ripped for. Not to say, like, listen, people always think that I'm AI or that I'm on like G. Like hgh. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, but. No, but seriously, there's no way you're for it.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Whatever.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But so you are on testosterone though.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, so I've been. I mean, so I. And I can share all my labs with you. There's. There's no.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, I don't. It's not my. It's not my.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no, but I Think it's an important distinction. This is why. Because.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Were you low T?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I was actually. So I was. And, and I have been. Went through a couple life, big life experiences and as a result I, I mean my testosterone, among other things, really suffered. So I'd have to go back and look because I always wondered what happened

[Jennifer Cohen]

that you're what would happen.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, where it really went sideways is we, we lost our first daughter. She. She passed away at birth and. Or she's stillborn is how you say it. And so believe it or not, actually to your point, it was actually a, a pivotal, pivotal time in our lives. Not in a good way. So this comes to like food addiction. Right. I'd never thought anything of it. And you know, that was an event in my life that was just like, just totally out of left field because like I deal in a world as a surgeon, like calculated risk, you know, but it's controlled, you know, what can happen when. And somehow you process that. But with child loss, it was out of left field. It was like this is how crazy it was. I mean, obviously I went to medical school and I didn't ever realize this could happen. I don't think I did so. So it was just so far fetched that I was not at all prepared. And so I like did a nosedive into really deep depression. And in my therapy, you know, some people drink, I eat and I. True story. I was going through like a Costco bag of Sour Patch Kids a day, like just fists. And I was near diabetic when, when, like when the dust kind of started to settle a little bit. We lost our daughter in August, August 29th. And you know, like the first three, four months was just so dark, so dark, you know. And I gained 50 pounds, give or take. My hemoglobin A1C was 6.4%. So like actually ate myself into diabetes. 6.5% is the definition of diabetes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh, wow.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Basically right there. And so much of this conversation, my practice that we own now and we opened for me is one, it's a mechanism to honor my daughter because like before that time I was, I think it was very self deprecating, very self critical, but I was also critical of other people. I didn't have a lot of empathy. And I'm going to say this, I'll just be real, you know, someone is obese, oh, they're lazy, you know, so just these snap judgments, right? You don't know what someone's life experience is. You have no idea what's driving you. They may be Radically different. I was radically different in six months time. I mean, I just straight nosedive. So in that sense, I'm beyond grateful. It's a horrible experience. But like, it taught me a lot about humility, about empathy, and now that's why I feel like I can connect more with people. Yeah, I deal with high performers, but that doesn't mean I don't deal with obesity and heart disease and everything else under the sun. But that reset for me, it was really the origins of the longevity lab today because I went through that and I'm looking around and I. It literally, it was like vivid for me. Wake up one day, just look in the mirror and go, what, what just happened? Like, I can't account for the last six months of my life. And so I pick up the phone, start calling my colleagues, right. Help, help me out. Okay. And so this is. Comes back to your testosterone question. I mean, my Testosterone was like 200. It was just. Everything just bottomed out. I was just a walking cortisol bomb.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And it's also because of your lifestyle though.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yes, totally.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It wasn't because of like your, like if you went, if you just went back to like eating better and exercising.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I don't disagree with that. Right, I don't disagree, but I want to comment on that because I want to be fair to the conversation. But in that time, I was like rock, rock, rock bottom. And I swear to you, I looked in the mirror and I couldn't account for six months, the saving grace for my life between my wife, between God and then my son. My son was 2 years old and he is my, like, I can't even talk about it. He is just my like my little rock, you know, and so like, you know, you have to get up every day because it's like this little guy, he still needs me. So anyway, long story short, got very unhealthy. And then I started reaching out to my, my colleagues and stuff like, hey, can you help me? What do you recommend? And all stuff. It was like a black hole, you know, And I didn't know anything about social media, probably for the best. But the longevity lab was born out of my own personal journey to just figure this out. I got to figure this out. How do I get back on the horse and like get back in the game?

[Jennifer Cohen]

And how long ago was this?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So this was 2019 into 2020. So six years ago? Yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And you have another daughter?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

A daughter, Yeah, a daughter. My, my. Oh, man.

[Jennifer Cohen]

How old is the daughter?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

She's five. She's five. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we just, we'll celebrate my, my daughter Emeline's her seventh birthday, which is just mind blowing, right? It's like life keeps going.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Wow.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

This is all an aside, but it was really the impetus to try to figure this out and then I can't really do anything halfway, so I started really geeking out on it. But as it related to my testosterone. Totally agree that, you know, I have some radical lifestyle changes, I get on track with diet and nutrition. But the truth of the matter is, which I would say to any one of my clients, then I would argue this. The number one cause of hypogonadal hypogonadism, low testosterone in men today is metabolic dysfunction. If you look at the impact of hyperinsulinemia, high insulin levels on testosterone production. Insulin actually prevents testosterone production. It's inhibitory.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But why are all these young men on it? Like, I'm, I'm hearing like 30, 33, 34, 35 year old guys are like

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

taking it right well. So, so here's how. I mean, there are.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You just look really fit. That's why I thought so.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So of course I have to be.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, well, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't mean. I was just teasing you.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But that's the other thing though, is, is all these, these stories and narratives, people just need to be more educated on, on what is real and what is not. And social media creates all these things, bizarre worlds. Where is testosterone going to like make you really fit? No, no.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It could also make you really fat.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It can do a lot of things and it can drive you off the rails and you can go bald. But testosterone, when used appropriately, when used as a tool, a physiologic tool, which is where I maintain my levels. I maintain my levels.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What number do you have now?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

My most recent was like 325, which was way lower than I wanted to see.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's not very high.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, correct.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Very low.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Correct, that's right. So I.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You need to kind of boost it up again.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, well, but I, but I think. No, no, but it's a really important point because there is physiologic testosterone, no different than replacing a woman's estrogen does.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So if a man has a libido of 300, do they typically.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

The testosterone.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I was going to say the testosterone is there. Does that. Sorry. So if a man has a test, if their testosterone is below a certain point, does that affect their libido? Is what I want to ask.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Of course.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So what level does a man have

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

to be at, let's say, let's ask a different question. At what level does a man's health become compromised? Actually the risk of a heart attack go up. Actually the risk of death. So we used to think of everybody has in their mind testosterone. Oh, it's a bodybuilder thing. Oh, it's, it's just to get jacked and all this stuff. No, actually low testosterone is a health hazard. Much different conversation than we've had in the past. Serum testosterone, total testosterone, less than 250 portends a higher risk of heart attack. Upwards of a 30% increase in risk. So it's a health risk. So this idea where we have to get out of this kind of dated, antiquated mindset. Oh, that's the bro science. Oh, you're on roids. Okay. There are synthetic anabolic steroids. Okay. We can list them off. And it's crazy that social media, it's a free for all now. You know who's getting hurt by the way, are the 16 year old boys, the 18 year old boys that are seeing a grown man saying hey, I got jacked and they're listing off these absurd anabolic protocols.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, do you know that kid, the look maxing guy? Clavicular.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. So he's a 20 year old kid and he's been taking testosterone I think for five years. I mean but that's what's, that's what's influencing all these young kids.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sure. Yeah, I know, right? I know. I think, I thought you were going to say, I think it was a Canadian bodybuilder. Some, some young guy recently died, like early 20s. There was this very popular bodybuilder on social media, but young guy had, I believe he had cardiac complications. Really, it's a real thing. But we got to separate.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So wait, physiologic testosterone?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, because the whole thing is, it's funny, if you go to a regular doctor and they take your bl. They take your biomarkers, right. And they'll say, oh, you're normal.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

What does that mean?

[Jennifer Cohen]

But like you're. When I'm. Yeah. What does that mean?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So in your world, because you're so dialed in, what do you think as, what do you think is a healthy place for a man to be tested with their testosterone?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And with their, with a woman is much different.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah. Yeah. So the important thing to know is that it's. I think this comes in this, but it's free testosterone. So everybody talks about total testosterone, which is Pretty much irrelevant. Free testosterone just with any hormone. Hormones get bound to proteins. If they're. If think of if my hormone's stuck to a Velcro ball, for example, it can't go and attach to the receptor. So total testosterone is not that important. But free testosterone, the part that's available for a male. My bias in my practice would be a free testosterone of 15 to 20 that if you look at lab normals is going to be high normal. Okay. Now for a man who again if I'm focusing on muscle growth phase, you see 15, 20. 15 to 20.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. And for a woman, for a woman

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Anywhere from 2 to 5, it's very. And it can be higher. I have a couple female clients, beautiful, feminine, rocking life, who have free testosterone above 5. They, and I mean some would say like that those same levels would be what we call virializing levels. So people transitioning.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh really?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

They, yeah, but, but that's why the numbers, this is the problem with the numbers is numbers only apply to a cross section of the population. It's an average. Right. So there's going to be highs and lows, but those aren't defined by performance output, which is the thing I look at. So libido, mental clarity, decisiveness, mood, immune health, muscle health, all these components that testosterone directly contributes to.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So then, okay, so then why are all these young guys taking it? Why is all like 30 year olds, I mean 20 year olds are on testosterone.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, I think we know some of that answer, right? Is because it. Yes. Super physiologic levels.

[Jennifer Cohen]

350. Is your libido totally tanked?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Not great.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really great.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, I'm just asking.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I mean I wouldn't say I don't know about tanked. And by the way, hormone health is a lot more nuanced than we know. It's not three hormones, but it's precursors, it's post products. It's a lot to it. But I would say that, I mean for a male, testosterone is the key driver of cognition on down. So libido, yeah, that's part of the equation, but it's not really a major part in my mind. If you came to me and said I want testosterone for my libido.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, no, I know.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I would say, well let's push, push pause here. Let's talk about why are young men. There's two camps, okay. There are more and more young men who are have low testosterone by laboratory analysis. So that's one group. Those people. I'll explain why in my strong argument they need treated. And there is a threshold to say all the diet, exercise, it's realistically, it's. You're not going to get there in a meaningful amount of time. So you're basically climbing Mount Everest, but naked. Okay. Then there's another camp, which is the kind of the performance camp where people have gone off the rails and it's all driven by social media that we've actually normalized the conversation around anabolic steroids. Oh, yeah, Just, do you, you know, oh, you want to get Jack like me? I saw this guy, he's literally word for word. I try to think of his username. He says, if you're a man over 40 and you want to look like me, similar physique you have to take. And then he lists off five anabolic steroids. And the game hasn't changed.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What did he make? What did he say?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Trin Mass. I mean, he's literally, I mean it is a crazy cycle. And he's. His message is, if you're a man over 40, you can't get like this without these. That's scary.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's super scary. And it's so not.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's completely untrue. Right? But imagine who gets hit with that more. Is it the other 40 year old male that buys his BS? No, it's the 18 year old kid that goes, I kind of like to look like that now.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

And now all of a sudden you're hearing from an adult and there's no discussion. He said, you know, I want to be transparent about how I got this way. So he listed off this whole stack, right? And I wrote a comment, I said, well, if you were being transparent, I'd like you to share your labs with us. I'd like to see how effed up your liver is. I'd like to do an echocardiogram and show how dilated your left ventricle, how thick and dilated is. I'd like to look at your coronary arteries and see how much plaque you've built up. Because that's real. Okay? We've known that for 50s origins of anabolics. So 70 years. This isn't new information? No, of course not. Why does that matter? Well, because you're framing this as there's no downside, only upside.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Is it true that once you start taking it as an injection, though your body stops producing it on its own?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, it's all relative. And so this is the most important, categorically, the most important part of the discussion, I believe needs to center around the people that do actually, I would argue, need testosterone. The 32 year old executive who's been grinding for the family business for the last 15 years. And yes, I'm talking about a client of mine who is 32. You said 32. Okay, so he's been going hard for the family business. He's an executive level, very, you know, very well off financially, very successful. And he's also put on roughly 80 pounds of fat mass, pure fat. Okay, Comes and sees me. His total fat mass was 79 pounds. Okay. And his testosterone is 280. Here's the thing, okay. I don't disagree that the most detrimental mechanisms for his health related to his testosterone are visceral fat and hyperinsulinemia, Insulin in the bloodstream. But here's the thing, I totally agree that eliminating those two will allow his testicles to start functioning normally again. The problem is, how are you going to eliminate these two? When you've got a testosterone less than 300, you get winded. If you go to the gym for 10, 15 minutes, you're at such a severe disadvantage. So the causal relationship between metabolic disease and low testosterone has to be acknowledged. But the mechanism of reversal, it's not snapping a finger. Obviously he didn't get there in one day, he's not going to get out of it. But I use the analogy, I mean, dumb and dumber, right? Are you going to freaking summit Mount Everest butt naked without a Sherpa? Is it possible you could do it? Sure, there's a chance. One in a trillion. One in a. So having someone who's so severely disadvantaged physiologically to do the one thing that will actually impact positively on his long term health, which is build muscle, to me, that's insane. And I see this all the time. Young men, I, I go up to people at the gym all the time. I see guys, you see guys that, that are working their butt off. You see plenty of guys that aren't. But there are guys I see all the time working their butt, pouring sweat, they're obese, they are struggling, they are putting in the work. And I look at that person, I go, that is, I'm not saying it's right or wrong how they got to that point, but there's no way you're

[Jennifer Cohen]

getting out of that, is it? I agree.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Do you see what I mean? And so in that case, whether you're 28 or 50 or 90, I don't care. At that point, yes, you have to do a biomarker analysis. It's not how you feel. But once you test if that guy's free. Testosterone's 3, 4, 5. Okay. There's literally. He does not have the signal to support muscle growth. So it is going to feel impossible because physiologically he's so disadvantaged. But here's the cool thing. This is what people miss. I meet with that guy and I tell him point blank, yeah, we need to introduce an outside source of testosterone. Your body's not doing it. But I fully anticipate, as we shift your body composition to a much more improved physiologic effect, so rapidly or markedly decrease insulin, get rid of the visceral fat, your testicles are going to kick back in and we're going to be able to come back down on that testosterone. And so this gets to the question, am I on it for life? Absolutely not. No. It's part of a strategy. It's part of a bigger picture. It's a protocol. It's how we deliver care to optimize the individual.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Does that make sense? So it's not a, this is the misguided. Oh, once you're on it yet for that 25 year old doing mass trend D ball testosterone all. I mean, he's frying his testicles.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Totally different scenario.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Is there a biomarker that doctors are not looking at that is very important to kind of tell you your overall health?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Fasting insulin, not hemoglobin A1C free. I mean look at, look at broad based hormone for a male, it would be free testosterone above all else. Because I see so many guys that get a total testosterone level and doesn't matter. It actually doesn't matter. It's a free testosterone.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I think looking at biomarkers for genetic risk of heart attack, the one that has been missing for years is lipoprotein little A, LP little A, apolipo B. You have to be considerate of cholesterol's role in cardiovascular disease. Notice I say role. Okay. So those tests are the ones that I think get left off. You know, I see guys, LP is a largely genetically conferred risk for heart disease. Okay. Higher levels can translate to three to five times higher risk of a heart attack. This is the guy that's your golfing buddy that you play tennis with every weekend and drops dead in the grocery store. Okay. So they every, every doctor checks a lipid panel. That's standard.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. So what did you say?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It was a light lipoprotein little A.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And what, why did you say? Because you're right, because I know a lot of these guys. Who look super fit. They play tennis 10, you know, every day. And they're dropping den. Dropping dead at 40.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

My lipoprotein little A. Okay. Is 280 off the charts. My apolipo B, my the strongest predictor that we have of what we so sort of clot forming capacity. My apo lipo B is 55 very. So I have a genetic abnormality, if you will, that increases my lifetime risk of a heart attack markedly. So what does that mean? Well, the cool thing is in the next probably year to two, big pharma is actually coming out with a monoclonal to actually treat, to actually eliminate this risk. But it's the risk. Like I could run 10 miles a day, I could do all this stuff, and I'm still carrying a risk, a genetic risk for heart disease. Okay. So that, that's why these data points become imperative. And sadly, in the United States, that is not anywhere close to standard of care.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So what do you do for it that if there's no medication for it now, what are you doing to make it?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, there are medications that can augment and what are you doing? Considering? I'm not doing anything right now.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Just watching it.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yes.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What if you drop dead of a heart attack?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, so there's. This is the difference. Okay, so what we call genotype phenotype. So I have a genetic risk, we know that's circulating in my bloodstream, but I also get a dynamic study in my heart called a clearly AI scan that was totally clean. So the issue is, okay, I know there's a risk, but now we got to see is that risk translating to a physical problem. So I don't have any plaque right now, so I got you. For me, it's. It's a hard argument to say, oh, I should just take medications to me, I see that as unnecessary. That's me speaking as a physician. So with. With my client base, we do an entire workup. Right. So biomarker analysis is one piece of the puzzle.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But someone who has an elevated risk. Well, we still have to ask the question, has it actually translated to disease?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So you gotta be very careful.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

And so this gets to. By the way, this comes back to the conversations around testosterone. Super physiologic testosterone absolutely worsens the lipid. Lipid profile.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. So if you have really low testosterone, that will just increase the risk more.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, it's the bookends. So we know observationally that low testosterone results in a higher risk. Okay, Well, I shouldn't say it results. I want to be careful. We don't know that it causes, but we see the correlation. Low testosterone, higher risk of heart attacks. We've made that observation, okay, with as it relates to high testosterone. So now, again, this is the issue with bodybuilders. They're taking, I would argue like six, seven times what a physiologic dose would be. Point blank. I take 60 milligrams of testosterone, okay? It's like tiny, tiny, tiny little bit. Bodybuilders are talking about taking 600 to 700 milligrams. Insane. Okay? But at really high levels of testosterone, you see your lipid because it's affected, affecting the liver. You see your lipid panel go off, totally off the rails.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So you have the, you have the observation that low testosterone people have higher heart attacks. But then I know for a fact if we, if we crank your testosterone, it will negatively impact your lipid panel. So there is a spectrum, which is why I say all the time, you know, your friendly fitness influencer, they don't, they don't quite get the nuance. Right. And yet they're telling the craziest thing about Instagram is you have non medical providers giving medical advice and they have no liability.

[Jennifer Cohen]

There's no liability. That's exactly the problem.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I see doctors getting pursued for various reasons, various claims. Like you alluded to the guys outselling peptides and. But if you're a fitness influencer, you can actually tell someone, no, you should take 250 milligrams of testosterone. That's not medical advice. That's prescriptive authority.

[Jennifer Cohen]

100%.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, and then what are you going to do? So say you follow that advice, you take it and you have some complication. Right? Who's to blame?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Nobody.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

You are.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, nobody.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Because you're the idiot that followed.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, besides myself. What do I do? Sue them.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right, exactly. And what's the first thing they're going to say? They're going to laugh. They're going to be, why did you take my advice? I'm not a doctor.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm not a doctor. You're like. And then, and then you're like, kind of after that point.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay, yeah, there's a lot of that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm all about finding sustainable ways to optimize performance. The kind of work that actually moves the needle on how you feel and function. And that's why I really need to tell you about Prolon's five day program. Most of us are chasing quick fixes that never get to the root of the problem. And the result is Sluggish energy, brain fog, and bodies running below its full capacity. But Prolon changes that by triggering your body's natural repair and renewal process at the cellular level. It's not a cleanse or crash diet. Prolon is the only patented fasting mimicking diet developed at USC's Longevity Institute. It's a plant based program with soups and snacks and drinks that nourish your body while keeping you in a fasting state. The benefits are backed by science, deep cellular rejuvenation, fat focused weight loss, no injections and better metabolic health and energy. Plus improved skin and even reduced biological age. And here's my favorite part. It's a complete reset in just five days. No willpower battles, no extreme restrictions. Just a structured plan to let your body do what it's designed to do. Repair, renew and optimize. And right now, Prolon is offering 30% off site wide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their five day program. Go to prolonlife.com Jennifer Cohen and use Jennifer Cohen to claim your discount and bonus. That's prolonlife.com/jennifer cohen and use code Jennifer Cohen. I have to ask you a couple more questions that we're going to do. Part two.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm down. I'm down.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Are you okay?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

These are all. No. You know, the whole reason I came out here is because this is the coolest thing about social media, to meet real people.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I thought social media was just pure smoke and mirrors and there's a lot. But then you meet very legitimate people and people who have a voice and connection with other people. It's wild.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So like it. My impetus to come out here is that this isn't like a medical or science podcast. This is like people just living their lives that are getting flooded with garbage noise.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm so glad that you get in here.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, so that's why, like I'd love to do it because this is where this is. The whole reason I got onto social media is it's not to go back and forth with other doctors. But, but try to like, try to being bring just a little sanity and

[Jennifer Cohen]

you're bringing a lot of sanity, rational

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

thought to the conversation.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Good. Because I have got cool. But it is cool. You're, you're, you're excellent. I'm so glad that we, that we got connected or I connected to you.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, wait. We got it. There's so many things I'm going to try to like just kind of keep it to the things I really wanted you to Talk about. The first one is grip strength. Right there's. Right. I need you. I need to talk about this because is. Yes, you told me it's a myth that grip strength actually predicts your longevity.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, I didn't say that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's what you said.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

How dare you. No, I said. No, no, no, no.

[Jennifer Cohen]

They say it wrong.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, let's. Let me explain it this way. It's an absurd metric. It is irrelevant to the human.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, so let me say.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Let me say it's not a myth because it's actually a scientifically measured fact. It is a metric that has been used to correlate.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Let me say it then. Okay, so the scientific metric of checking somebody's grip strength is not an accurate way of checking somebody's longevity.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, it's not a worthwhile metric to trend. What's happened is the great Peter Attia, the great neurodivergent Peter Attia, who latches on to these. These numbers and then just. Just takes it to another level with his marketing team. Grip strength is a surrogate marker. It is a one way to measure strength, but what you're measuring in grip strength is you're trying to reverse engineer whole body strength. So I have people coming to me saying, well, what's the best way to measure my grip strength? Carry your kids in your arms. I don't know. Do something practical. Grip strength is not going to prevent you from falling off a toilet and dying. The data is very clear. The mortality, the number of adults over the age of 65 who die within one year of a pelvic or proximal long bone fracture is a third. What is that saying? So if you fall and break your hip, one third of those people will be dead within one year. They go to a nursing home, they get pneumonia, they die. Okay, why is that happening? It's because it's a reflection. Why did you fall is the question. You're unbalanced, you're uncoordinated, and you're weak. So when you do indeed compare grip strength to proximal lower extremity muscle strength, proximal lower extremities win every time. Right? You don't. I don't care. You could have forearms the size of my torso, and it's not going to prevent you from falling, but weak quads will. So we need to be looking. So. So my, My. The trainer, I swear by a guy named Jeff Schutte, is brilliant. We've been working on a functional performance longevity score. One of the workhorse exercises that we use is a Walking kettlebell. Farmercary lunge. Now that. So simply put, walking lunge 50 meters. Okay. Unbroken. So it's a full step each time. Okay. Two kettlebells. So effectively, that's your grip strength metric. I'll give pay homage to grip strength. But what you're measuring, think about what you're measuring there. You're measuring first and foremost lower extremity strength, but you're also measuring balance, coordination and mobility. Those are what'll have you fallen off a toilet. And then a third of your peers are going to be dead. So we have to reframe. We have gotten so off the rails. And this is a reasonable criticism of longevity medicine is you guys are just pulling stuff out, can I say, out of your ass. You're pulling. Plucking data points. This was the Atiya legend. If you saw the 60 Minutes special, he literally has a lady hanging from a bar. You really think that's gonna prevent her falling off a toilet? It's moronic. It's truly moronic. What matters? So we lose logic, we discard logic for these cool numbers. But I need to have everything framed in the form of what is actually going to move the needle for somebody. And by far and away, if you were going to do one activity in your lifetime to extend your health span and lifespan, it would be sit to stand movements. Does that make sense? So like my grandfather who passed away weeks before his 103rd birthday, his deficiency ultimately came to being able to go from a sitting to standing position. That's why he wound up in a nursing home. He lived 102 years on his own and his muscles weakened. So if we prevent that from happening, you are actually by definition improving longevity.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So doing a walking kettlebell lunge is the best exercise.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So. Yes. So our scoring system is based on the percent your body weight that you can do. So we consider elite would be 1% is 110% of your body weight. You try doing that with kettlebell lunge.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's hard to do. You know what? Like for whatever reason, it's so good, isn't it? Yes. And those even a walking lunge in itself is very difficult.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Exactly. So my point is such a great point. It's. I love that the criticism or critique around longevity medicine is people are just obsessing over numbers. And that's a fair critique point. If you want to talk about grip strength, a dead hang. Do you know what single community that I'm aware of that actually tests dead hangs? It's the United States Marine Corps. Want to know why? It's because you could actually fall out of a helicopter in your life would depend on hanging.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay, 60 year old woman, your life doesn't hinge in the misses that now people have gotten in their head. Oh, I'm going to get bigger forearms, I'm going to hang. No, it's a proxy for whole body strength. But we know very plainly proximal lower extremities. So glutes, hamstrings, quads, that complex is survivability.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Because think about it, if you really had a bizarre scenario where someone's upper torso, chest and upper extremities were relatively weak and they had a really strong core lower extremity group, I would say that person's probably better off.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, I think that's a great point. You know, and it's also common sense.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's my point is this is the critique against longevity medicine is what happens when common sense goes out the door.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Well, what I, what my grandmother would always say is common sense isn't very common.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right. What happens when common sense isn't so common? Peter Attia becomes an a longevity medicine expert. And so that's the criticism that I take every day. They're like, oh well, you just made this name up, you just made this title. No, I poured myself into my craft and what I've done different than anybody else I'm aware of is it's all evidence based, data driven, results defined. I actually keep the data and make decisions based off of it. It's not like hocus pocus, oh well, you're probably going to feel better. Oh, let's get some biomarkers once in a while. No, it's very data directed, just like going back to the fast, continuous glucose, continuous ketone. That's the differential, that's the differentiating factor. Now again, coming back to the women's health question. Now we're going to have continuous estradiol. We're going to answer questions that have not been answered in the history of the world because I don't know what does, what happens with your estrogen minute to minute through your entire cycle. Truly no one knows that scientific evidence does not exist. Today we're dealing with just throwing darts, plots on a line, knowing full well that a woman's hormones change through a 28 day cycle for years of decades of their life. So that data combined with ketone data in fasting. Yeah, I think in the next year I'm going to be able to be talking on a level that's radically different than what we are today. But my gut sense, my. As a professional, I just. My gut since having treated so many women, it's not going to really change the game because no different than a male who may be stressed from like a viral illness, they're not going to enter ketosis. So maybe for some women in the luteal phase, they may not enter ketosis, but it's easy. You have a fail safe. Okay, if at 12 hours of someone's fast, this is how we do it. If by noon on the fasting day, you're still in a low grade nutritional ketosis level, for whatever reason, we stop. What's the point?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Exactly.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

You see what I'm saying? But now when you have the data, you're making informed decisions.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's not like, oh, I don't feel well or oh, I feel dizzy. I don't. That's not. I'm sorry you feel dizzy, but what's your glucose and what's your ketones?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So anyway, I digress.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, you're not digressing. Just know that Ed's going to kill me because it's Saturday, almost three hours and I've got so many more questions for you.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm glad you asked the gripstring question because it is precisely the issue. It is literally common sense left the building.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Or like you literally have a world known 60 Minute news anchor hanging from a bar and no one looks at that.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, I know, I know. Listen, you're preaching to the converted, my dear. Is there any other myth buster that you can tell us right now that drives you crazy?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Hmm, That's a good question.

[Jennifer Cohen]

There's so many, I'm sure.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I know, I know. Gosh, some myth myth busters. Hmm. I would say the reverse mythbuster for the conversation we've had around peptides is there are indeed peptides that are tried and true, proven and ultra high effect.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, tell me which ones.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I would say the best studied class of peptides are the ghrh or growth hormone. We'll call them just the growth hormone peptides. Samorelin, Ipamorelin, Tessamorelin. We understand the role of growth hormone in human longevity. Okay. We can trigger a natural increase in production and let down very reliably using these peptides. Those are peptides. But guess what the common thread is. Tessamorelin exists as a pharmaceutical agent. It went through the entire FDA clearance process. The there tends to be a connection. And so this is where Tessamorelin's a workhorse mot c that goes back to your original Question. There is actually no evidence. And I've looked at MOT C strategically at high doses because for me to say there's some positive benefit, it has to follow a logical train of thought. And if you're talking about mitochondrial optimizing peptide, you would expect one of two, if not two things to happen. One, fuel utilization increases. You can test that. It's called resting metabolic rate. So I looked myself, I did the study on myself. I did every week I did an indirect calorimetry. So a breath breathing test, mask on my face, checked my rmr. Didn't change. Did not change. So could there be something happening on a small scale? Yeah, but if it's not having a meaningful impact on the human, why are you taking it?

[Jennifer Cohen]

But what about the difference between Tessamorelin and Samorelin?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, Huge, massive.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What's the difference?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Potency. Oh, efficacy. Okay, so Somorelin, in my clinical experience has little to no effect on serum IGF1 levels. IGF1. Oh, this is, this is a really important thing to say. If you can't measure or quantify something, it's real hard to prove that something is or isn't working. Okay, so if you want to sell a product, pick something that can't be measured because who's going to tell you it didn't work?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, brilliant.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's the fundamental issue. But look at all the peptides, okay. That are on the market, that do indeed work, that have been brought to market by big pharma. The common thread is you can measure a difference. There is a organism level effect.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So Tessamorelin and Semorelin you can measure.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, yes. So all those. So the way we measure, typically measure growth hormone levels is in the form of IGF1, which is a byproduct. This is a downstream effect. It's much more stable in the bloodstream.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. So is Tessamorelin.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So I, I test your IGF one today, I put you on a testamorelin protocol. In six weeks, I, I test it again, I expect it to be 100 to 150% higher. So I can prove we went from here to here. Now we can get into and Tomorrowland. Samorin, nominal effect, very minimal. It's worthless.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, but you actually, didn't you just say the

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

category? But within that category, Samorelin, which is the one that's being used a lot because the FDA didn't pull it from compounding.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So everybody went to Smoreland. Sorlin's not worth, not worth the bottle it comes in.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So Tessamorelin is good.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Tessamorelin, by far and away the most potent.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What is CJC 1295?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So CJC 1295 is often combined with Ipamorelin. Ipamorelin is a ghrelin agonist and CJC is a GHRH agonist. So it's just, it's biological pathways. But CJC with ipamorelin, that combo is very effective. It is very effective.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Can you take that with Tessamorelin or separate?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Either or you can take. Well, you could take whatever you want. If I was going to suggest someone do something. I have observed the greatest benefits with Tesamorelin and Ipamorelin combined without the other part. Correct. Right. Because CJC and Tesamorelin are the same mechanisms, just Tesamorelin's more potent.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Can you get bloated from this?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay, so growth hormone. Let's talk about growth hormone. Because again, this is where people go off the rails and they're like, well, one helps with sleep. No, they don't. They just increase growth hormone. Growth hormone helps with sleep. But yes, growth hormone as a large molecule does result in some water retention. Everybody sees it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

For how long?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I. I've always experienced it as transient. Again, if you're moderating the dose and managing the actual titrating towards your IGF one, it should be a matter of a couple of weeks. But it's very nominal. The effect is very nominal and it neutralizes very quickly. Surprise. Someone who's never been exposed to Testerone, which is the most potent, may experience a little added water weight more times than not. It's not visible. It's just I get a call and they're like, oh, I gained three pounds. Yeah, you retained a little water, but it goes away. Absolutely, 100%.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, now I gotta ask you about Nad.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay. Yeah, let's do it.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. Nad. What's your take on Nad?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So first question, do I use it in my practice? Yes, I do. Injection based nad. So we'll say sub Q intramuscular iv in that order is one. There is very much a systemic effect. Have you taken nad?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, I take N. I take Tru Niagen, which is nr.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Good. So, but have you ever done like a infusion or.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I've gotten NAD infusions. I've gotten the NR infusion by Tru Niagen, which is like, have. You know. Did you know they have.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no, I didn't.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Oh my God. You should have them at your. Your, like, you should put them in your longevity labs.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You know why it's with nr.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And you know how an NAD drip takes an hour, two hours to go in this one takes like 30 or 40 minutes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So it's like it, it minimizes the time.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So nad, if you've ever done an NAD infusion.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

You feel it if you open that thing up.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So nauseous. It's terrible.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's a, it's as close, as close as you come to having like a heart attack and a respiratory thing.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If you really open it wide,

[Jennifer Cohen]

it's so horrible.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So bear in mind what you're feeling systemically is very minimal to intracellular levels. NAD and NAD plus NADH are an electron donor in the mitochondria. So that's inside a cell.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So NAD in your bloodstream is irrelevant.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It has to be in the cell. NAD cannot readily cross through a cell membrane into the cell. There's no clear carrier. So you probably get some ultra small percentage, meaning we have to give you a big slug of NAD to get a little bit in your cell. So I think what you're feeling and experiencing is largely the circulatory effects of nad. But what matters from a longevity perspective because NAD does two things. Again, it aids in the electron transport chain energy, you know, fuel to energy and. But the other piece is it's a cofactor in the DNA mismatch repair system, which is literally our bodies. It's wild. So every time a cell splits, you literally do copy your entire DNA to a new cell. So imagine as you age, that process keeps happening. More room for error. But we have a built in system called the, the DNA mismatch repair system. That NAD is a powerful CO factor that goes through literally this is what makes the human body wild. Goes through and checks our entire genome before that cell gets the. Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Really?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, that's how. So that's where nad. So that's kind of that longevity energy piece.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So nr.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So then, then we talk about. So that's, that's what NAD does in the cell.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

The, the tragedy is in the bloodstream doesn't count. So the, it's actually the precursors that establish the highest level of intracellular concentration. So what you're saying, nr, nicotinamide, riboside. There's some mixed data. NR and NMN are the two precursors that are used commonly. I'm a bigger advocate for nr. I think there's more compelling data that NR is readily transported into the cell. And there's some data that says NMN is broken down to NR and Then enters the cell. Bottom line, they both do in some effect.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But isn't NR faster because you're missing.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, yes, because you're correct. Correct.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Right. So then why would anyone take nmn?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, the better question is why would anyone take nad?

[Jennifer Cohen]

But yeah, why would anyone take nad?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So I still use. Like I said, I use it in my practice.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Why?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Because at the doses we're using, there is likely a nominal but more immediate effect on the cell.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But if you're taking it as a supplement. I take Niagen as a supplement.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Right.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Is it as effective as taking it as a.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's more effective over time. But remember, you're building up intracellular levels. So my point is NR should be your threshold, that should be your baseline. I would argue. I don't see a ton of reasons why most people are not on nr, except maybe the cost. Do you take it in our. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I love true Niagen. I mean that's. That's the workhorse.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I love that. Okay, good.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So in fact they have that new immune formula. Have you seen.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's vitamin C and NR and something else.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, it's actually less. It's like. But I take.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's a smaller dose.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's a smaller dose. I take the tro, which is a thousand milligrams.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Oh, nice. Okay.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. So that's why.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, more is more. From everything that I understand and have experienced personally, more is better.

[Jennifer Cohen]

So it's not. Your body doesn't acclimate to it.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No. Again, you're taking a precursor simply because. Once again, here we go to peptides.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You love peptides.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, no, it's just because you have to understand just biology at a baseline.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Because people.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Everyone's ingesting, but they don't magically. People forget that a cell is airtight, watertight, if there's not a dedicated channel or transport mechanism. Just because something's in your bloodstream doesn't put it in the cell.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay, okay. So then you're. Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So nr, nmn. I don't feel strongly between the two. I personally use NR for the basis we just said. But that's a. You're building level over time. Because if it's not, you don't take NR today and your intracellular levels are peak.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Does it. Is it really like the. Like an anti aging workhorse?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I mean, I see it as that. For the express reason what I said, as it relates to. To DNA health. Yes, because what ages us is the progressive breakdown of DNA. So cells become less and less functional or operational. So I would argue that having this potent cofactor that helps ensure accuracy of DNA reproduction is very much a longevity focus. And what I said earlier is the key though. Remember we said mitochondria, muscle metabolism, anything that positively impacts on mitochondrial or improves the efficiency by definition is improving muscle metabolism and longevity. So that's the clearest link I have.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. I have a question for you. Just to be counter devil's advocate a little bit. If it's, if it's turning over yourself, if nad is turning your cells over.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's not.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's not.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, no, no, no, no. It's. Yeah. I'm sorry, if I. If it came across. No, it is a critical co factor in ensuring that when your cells turn over, they duplicate, that the DNA is accurate. Because if you introduce DNA error, that is one of the main theories of a malignant transformation is that DNA becomes corrupt. Right. And ideally DNA becomes corrupt and something like the mismatch repair system flags it. And that goes on to be a zombie cell.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Exactly. That you clear. Exactly. Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But if that cell line propagates, now that error is taken into a cell lineage that is malignant transformation in the right setting. Okay, so that's where nad plays a role.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I got you. What about aminos? So aminos to help maintain lean muscle mass, to help with energy. What is your take on those?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, so. Well, okay, so let's say it this way. I mean, amino acids are the building amino acids. Yeah, the building blocks. So you have to look at complete, incomplete, and essential forms of amino acids. A complete form of protein arguably contains all nine essential amino acids.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Okay, so lean protein, like. Like chicken. Okay. So your body's breaking that down into all these different. Let's keep in in mind here in this, because I think it goes with this conversation, like hydrolyzed collagen peptides. Okay. What's the role of collagen? So collagen is an incomplete protein source. Right. It's only made up of three amino acids proven actually to be beneficial for skin health and joint health. So if you're taking 22 grams daily of hydrolyzed collagen peptides for those reasons, I'm all for it. Problem is, when people factor that into their daily protein intake, it's not the same. Collagen is used explicitly. I don't count it towards your daily intake.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But like, some people can't just eat that much protein a day. So is it a good idea to take an amino supplement?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I think so. I would say definitely Yes. I can't.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I brought you a bunch.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm personally not. What's that?

[Jennifer Cohen]

I brought you a bunch. I take these kion aminos that are very good.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But that's an essential. So that's an essential amino. Absolutely. Okay, so you remember there was a whole craze about BCAAs, of course.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, of course. But that's useless.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's not useless. No. It's actually very intentional, very deliberate. But it pales in terms of whole body effects to essentials.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's true. So kions is an essential amino acid and BCAs are just a partial of essential. Of essentials.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So essentials, nine amino acids.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

In essential amino acids. In amino acids your body can't make from other things.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So you have to take it in.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So that's the value of supplementing essential amino acids. I use essential amino acids around training times, most specifically and largely because of the concentration of leucine.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So leucine, isoleucine, valine, Right? Yes. So leucine is the most critical. Not. Let's say it. Let me think how to say this. It's the most critical. Definitely the most critical. Most anabolic amino acid. That's how I'll say it. It's the most potent anabolic amino acid. We think of anabolic effects of glucose through insulin, but leucine actually is a potent stimulator of insulin. Did you know that?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, I did. I did.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

So this is the problem, by the way. Go back to fasting real quick. The fatal error in fasting is essential amino acids some people have put out there. They're like, oh, yeah, you know, you have your caffeine, your water. You can have essential amino acids. No, absolutely not. No. Essential amino acids will kick you out of. That's why I actually avoid. On a post fast day. We're going to do a whole session on this, okay?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

You promise?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I promise.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Because this is the. This is the crust, but leucine, so a whole protein source. I want you to avoid on your post fast day until later in the day. Why? Because you can take. So bone broth is my workhorse for post fast day. It allows you to actually extend out your ketosis, like, oh, we didn't even do this part. I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You have to come back. You're going to have to come back. He's going to kill me, this guy.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, it probably killed me.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Poor Ed. We're going to give. We're going to give Ed like A gift car.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I'm telling you. First of all, I didn't even. We didn't finish that whole thing.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I know, I know. So that I was just. That's the other. That's the super.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Come back next week.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

55,000 foot view of fasting. But it's pre fast walk after that last meal. Walk as much as you can on the fasting day. But then again, we break our fast with bone broth. That's what I would tell anybody who's out there. Fasting, regardless of duration, always break with bone broth. But it goes back to the essential amino acid conversation. Because bone broth is also an incomplete source of protein. It lacks leucine. Okay. If you consume leucine, I mean you can, I can order you a tub of leucine and you can do the experiment. You consume just pure leucine, you will interrupt ketosis. You will. Because leucine triggers insulin.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I didn't know that.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah. So leucine stimulates muscle proteins. The common. Ah, it's just. This is why it's. Yeah, we need, we need to do like a six part series because this is all. And I know people hear this stuff and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is just all, all nerdy. But I swear to you this.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no one's saying that. I promise you.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But no, but when I make the point, make this point to my clients. I swear to you, if you understand why you're doing something, you're much more likely to do it over time. I'm convinced of that. If I tell you do this, this, this and this one, you're probably going to forget, right? There's no meaning to it. You're just following a rule. But if you understand why, then, so why, why is my fasting success? Someone asked me this. Well, if you're a real advocate for fasting, what percentage of your clients are successful in completing fasting or a full protocol? Literally it's 100%, 100% across the board. Every single one of my clients and by the end of their year partnership will have adopted fasting as a lifestyle move. It's purely, it is the most potent longevity tool. So again, I could take 20 peptides. That could work. Probably don't. I could take all these pills or I could just fast. I see all these posts and like take this, this, this and this, and here's my stack for this and blah, blah, blah. And my comment always is, or you could fast.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. Oh my God.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

How crazy is that? You could do all this. No, no, it's not free. You actually make money fasting.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah. You make money fasting.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

And by the way, last thing I'll say about fasting, the most freeing thing you can do in your life is fast because you never realize, and this is when I was sharing with you my personal journey. You never realize how much time you spend in a given day focused on food until you don't eat.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I know. So that is fast.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Fascinating. And so people are like. So on your fasting day, you know, we try to do three movement sessions. People are like, where am I going to come up with three hours? Just don't eat. If you don't have to plan where you're getting your next meal, you don't have to to doordash it. You don't have to run this way. People don't. We don't realize, this is a crazy thing, how much time as Americans we spend.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I know.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, it's not food related activity of

[Jennifer Cohen]

course, because this is how we socialize. This is how we emotionally like feel our feelings.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And it's also like, it's like if like it tastes good. Like it's actually. Yeah, for sure. Like it's like it's a, it's a, it's like a, it's like. What do you call it in life? It's like a, like a joy. It's a joyful thing to do. I suppose.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I totally agree.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And I should also say like certain like cultures dominate around. Like I'm Jewish. So like that's how we like socialize and connect and.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's like an intimate thing we do. You know what I mean? Like it's, you're taking away the element of living when you don't eat. To me, you're German. I don't know. That's why, this is why. Because you're German. You don't care.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm just a practical guy.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You're all about efficiency.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Food is fuel and efficiency. I'm about like eating and enjoying it.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, it's like a, it's a, it's also like a, a sign of like. What do you call I, what's the word when you cook? It's like a. I'm missing.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I know, I get. No, I get what you're saying though. It is, it is, it's it. And I don't discount that. I don't discount that. Yes, yes. No, she starves. We have her on.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Listen, you don't know.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

We have a five calorie diet.

[Jennifer Cohen]

You also feel like, food is fuel.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, I think she looks. Yeah, food. I think she would be more aligned with what you're saying. More. More. But. But the only catch there that I would just say, just pure and simple, is whether or not I'm eating. I relate this more to alcohol consumption. Whether or not I'm drinking, you know, it really actually doesn't bother people as much as we think it will. Whether or not you're also drinking with it, Be my guest.

[Jennifer Cohen]

By the way, I don't give a shit about that. Number one, I don't drink, though. I think drinking is like the worst thing you can do for your body composition, for aging, for your health, for your sleep. I'm.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Cancer, cognition, everything.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I think alcohol is by far the worst. When people always say, oh, you're. You know what? You must be on something. I'm like, actually, I'm. Actually, I'm off something. I haven't had a drink for 30 years. Like, I've never been a drinker. And even in college, I never liked the alcohol. I've been lucky that way.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yep. I agree.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I've never liked the taste of it.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yep.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But I think alcohol ages you in like, an exorbitant amount.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah. Oh. The scientific evidence is very clear. And the. The horrific attempt at justifying it that, like the. The ATIA crowd does, which is. Oh, well, social connection is a powerful influencer of longevity. And you need alcohol for social. I'm like, whoa, why do you need alcohol? But see, here's my question to you. Why do you need food?

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, I. I knew you're gonna say that.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's just a question.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

It's not. It's not a right or wrong.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, no, but listen.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Just something to think about.

[Jennifer Cohen]

But I agree, like, because that was the word I was looking for earlier. Like, food is a social. Like a social connection.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay. Because, like, you have, like, you go on dates, you have date night, you have lunches. I'm gonna go for lunch. You're right. What I do a lot is I go for walks with people. I have all these, like, non negotiables in my life. Like, I don't.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

All the things you do without. And that's the gap for general American population is. And that's why, you know, people being intentional about movement seems so stupid to say, but it's only because we live in a society where.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Jonathan, you don't just realize. I would. And now I would see why I

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

fell in the pool.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What? No. What I was going to Say is I sent you over text. I'm like, you know, we can have lunch after or something. You didn't respond to that. And then now.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm sorry.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, no, no, no. But now I know why. Because you don't eat food.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Well, just. Just walk to coffee at intervals. Okay, but it does it. I. I think you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter now because it's already 100. It's like 100 o'. Clock. But. But. Okay, wait, we got to wrap this because Ed probably.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

We gotta get pulse. Check for Ed.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's been like three plus hours.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If I do come do another one, Ed's probably going to see me and. No, but like swearing under his breath.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's actually okay to do three and a half hours. It's just probably not the greatest on a Saturday when he. You know what I mean? Because I don't really care, but he's probably like really pissed. Okay. Anyway, I will get edit a gift card. Actually, Jonathan, this is part one of a podcast. We're going to do like another one.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'd love it super soon.

[Jennifer Cohen]

When can you come back?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Oh, man, we're going to have to. We're gonna have to figure it out.

[Jennifer Cohen]

When do you think you can come back?

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

I'm like on the spot this moment. I probably gonna be. Be a few weeks. I've got. I've got Toronto coming up. I got Argentina coming up. We got a lot.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's okay. Don't worry. I'm leaving town too. We can do.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

No, we. We will. I would love to, and I will say this just outright for your audience, like, fire. Fire the questions away. I mean, I think there's so much opportunity to improve upon a lot of the assumptions that exist. And the thing I stress is it's not about right or wrong. I get that the algorithm favors controversy and really extremes, but the truth lies in the nuance. And if we simplify down to things that move the needle most.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yes, I agree with you.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Am I critical about all these different stacks and biohacks? No, what moves.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What moves the needle Most is movement.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

100%, right? Yep.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What's the second thing? Sleep.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Sleep. Sleep is foundational. If it's. If it's off. And I'll go so far as to say this, my clients know this to be true. Do what you have to do to get quality sleep. What I mean by that is, if it requires a pharmaceutical agent for you to get quality sleep, quality sleep is the metric.

[Jennifer Cohen]

What do you think is more important? Sleep or movement. Oh. Ooh.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

If it really was one against the other, I'd say movement. Movement is way more impactful for metabolic health.

[Jennifer Cohen]

I think so, too.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

But sleep, that's a controversy. And again, deal the niche. I sort of practice in my practice, high performers. That's the name of the game.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Look, we're both wearing our same thing.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah. In the commonality between high performers, high output individuals is the wheels are always going to. So I would say most consistently most common issue I see with clients that's correctable is sleep hygiene. Sleep architecture.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Okay.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

That's it. That's where it's at.

[Jennifer Cohen]

That's it. Okay. This is you guys. It's Dr. Jonathan Scheff. He is, as you can see, a fountain of information. This has been very informative. Go follow him. We're going to do another part two. Hopefully maybe a part three.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Cohen]

It's been like, what, three hours plus. But it doesn't feel I can keep on going. I've got great endurance. We can go for another hour, but

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

it's going to be.

[Jennifer Cohen]

Yeah, we got to find in. Okay, guys. If you have not subscribed, by the way, to this podcast, I should have said this at the beginning. Please subscribe. It really helps with everything. And give me some feedback on stuff you like to hear, things that you. You've been, you know, you want more information on, less information on and everything in between. So thank you for listening. Thank you for coming to the podcast, Jonathan.

[Dr. Jonathan Scheffler]

Pleasure. Thank you.

[Jennifer Cohen]

And we'll see you soon. Bye. Bye.