← Hacking Your ADHD
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- [00:01]
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
2.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
4.
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William Curb
I use it. 5.
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Podcast Host
Are you.
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Podcast Host
Welcome to hacking youg ADHD. I'm your host William Curb, and I have adhd. On this podcast, I dig into the tools, tactics and best practices to help you work with your ADHD brain. Hey team. Today I'm talking with Dr. Tracy Dahlklish, a clinical psychologist, couples therapist, and author of youf, your Husband and His Mother. She has spent almost two decades helping couples get unstuck from repeating the same old arguments and start building relationships that actually work in real life. She also runs her own podcast, Dear Dr. Tracy in our conversation today, we get into how our relationships don't exist in a vacuum, how family expectations shape our decisions, and why it's so important to be on the same team with your partner. Especially when you're juggling that extended family, ADHD and a few generational differences in this is just how we do things. We also get into setting value based boundaries, navigating conflict without turning it into a blame gleam, and using moments to rebuild connection where everything feels off.
- [02:01]
William Curb
Bal if you'd like to follow along.
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Podcast Host
On the Show Notes page, you can find that@hackingyouradhd.com 255 all right, keep on listening to find out how to survive a family dinner without needing a week of recovery. All right, well, it's so great to.
- [02:22]
William Curb
Have you here with us and I'm really interested in this topic because I.
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Podcast Host
Actually never seen this explored before this.
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William Curb
Idea of dealing with this relationship outside of your own. But I feel like it's going to be something that a lot of people deal with. So. But before we get into any of that, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and like, how you got into doing this?
- [02:41]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yeah, absolutely. And William, let me just pause to say thank you so much for inviting me into your community and for getting to have this conversation with you. So I have been working with couples for nearly 20 years through either doing research or sitting in front of people, whether someone comes for couples therapy or individual therapy. And I can confidently say that all people show up into my therapy room wanting to be on the same page, wanting to feel connected, and wanting to be able to communicate with their partners. Like that is our big goal. And one of those top things that comes up in this conversation is the desire to have really good relationships with extended family members. And it through the years and truly across culture, religion, across 10 years, across countries, I've worked with people all over the world who have come to me saying, I don't know how to navigate this struggle. I don't know how to feel like we're on the same team and deal with this in law or this extended family member. And we can talk more about why the book specifically is called you, your husband and his mother. But it's such this common struggle. And. And so writing this resource, William, was really about giving people this tool at home so they can do exactly what I do with people in my therapy room. And I can tell you, those five steps, they're so powerful. And I've seen couples come out of it, feel like they're more on the same page. They're having those family visits where they're not having to cringe and bear it, and they're not getting into so many arguments with their partner. It's just been really cool to see how this system works for people.
- [04:18]
William Curb
Yeah, I feel like oftentimes we think about our relationship as, you know, just this one on one thing. But we don't live in a vacuum. There's all the other people that are in your life, friends, family, and beyond that as well.
- [04:29]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
The question I often ask is, do you marry your partner or do you marry their family? And it's an interesting conundrum because most people show up saying, and I'll actually say all people show up to do this work with me saying, I didn't get married to have this conflict with his family or with her family. Because we desire to have connection with people. We want to be Known and seen. We don't want to get stuck in those really hard disagreements. And William, especially around holidays. Holidays, I know Thanksgivings coming up and Christmas and we'll be celebrating the new year. And around holidays, all of this extended family stuff resurfaces. And then couples are kind of doing this tension piece or having to have these hard conversations with extended family members or sometimes both.
- [05:16]
William Curb
Yeah.
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Podcast Host
In our household, we have agreed that.
- [05:18]
William Curb
We are never hosting Thanksgiving again because of the tension that ar, like not the day itself, but the preparation. Getting like detention, like is just really rough on everyone in our family. So we're just. Yeah, we're just not going to do that anymore.
- [05:31]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
I do see more people making that decision. And there's an element in here where we're saying our family relationships don't have to be. So for people listening, I'm putting one hand on top of one finger. Oftentimes what we do is we balance a relationship. It's hinged on one thing. And what happens with that one thing. It's Thanksgiving for some people, it's Christmas for others. And they're like, you have to come on this day and we have to all be together. And when you balance something like this, that relationship is wobbly, it's precarious. And instead family is. Today are saying our definition of family doesn't hinge on this one family event. We can have relationships all throughout the year. We don't want to go through this stress of having to drive eight hours, having to pack up the three month old, driving eight hours in the snowstorm, and being there for Christmas dinner because quote, unquote, that's just what you do. People are choosing differently today.
- [06:25]
William Curb
Yeah. It is really funny when you like, look back on things that like the like, have to's and shoulds and you're like, oh, we can do this differently. I mean, this is something my wife and I have always done with our wedding anniversary, which is in early December and often not a good time for us to go out to do places. And so we're like, oh, just do this in the spring or something and it's fine. We don't have to do it the way that it's supposed to be done. We can do what makes most sense for us.
- [06:50]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
I love that. That's that flexibility. It's. It's the first step in my vault method. So I wrote this book with five steps. And that first step is really about you and your partner prioritizing what is most important to. So then you get to decide from there and that's often this challenge that we get stuck in in our relationships, William, is that people do this. I want it this way, but it's not connected to what really matters to you. So I remember working with one couple where he says, we always go to mom and dad's for espressos and biscotti on Sunday evening. And she now has. They have a three month old and another child. And she's saying, well, I need to get home for bedtime. I need to prepare for the work week. Like that's just not possible for me. It's too stre. And oftentimes people have been ruled. I'm going to use quotation marks. Ruled by what's morally right rather than tapping into our values and what really matters to us.
- [07:49]
William Curb
Yeah, it's often funny too, when we do these. The moral aspect of things, it's not truly moral. It's just we're placing so much idea of what. What our worth is based on. If we're following through on these things that we think are important, that you should.
- [08:06]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
That you'll be enough, you'll be labeled as enough, that you're important, that you matter if you do. X, Y, Z. And instead saying, well, hang on. What if I start from this place of worthiness and then I get to decide, am I gonna spend every night cleaning the dishes to make sure my kitchen is spotless? Well, maybe that's not so important to me, but it has nothing to do with whether we're a good housekeeper or good partner or managing our household the right way.
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William Curb
Managing things the right way. That's a big topic in itself.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
I know, I know. And. And it's also where couples bump up against each other. Because of course, you bring in two histories and your two different family systems. And that's why this book, you, your husband and his mother. That's why this book is so important. Because we don't know how to have those conversations to get on the same page and to say, okay, wait, hang on. There's this obligation over on my side of the family and on the other side of the family that doesn't look that way. How do we do this together? How do we actually have these conversations? And is it about us talking about Thanksgiving and the Christmas holidays? Or are we even having a conversation around why do we want the kitchen clean every night? Why do I feel this anger surging through my body when you leave your mug beside the sink? Those are the conversations we want to dig into. And we often struggle to do that.
- [09:28]
William Curb
Yeah, I can especially see this through the lens of, especially with the, this topic with his mother and stuff where, especially with like the household chores where, you know, I've talked with my wife, like I help clean the house for all these things and I don't get credit like her mother will or when her mom comes by, she's like, oh, this is. You've done such a good job cleaning the house.
- [09:47]
Podcast Host
I'm like, I spent three hours cleaning. But I also know if the house.
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William Curb
Was messy, I wouldn't get blamed either.
- [09:52]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Right. It's tricky the piece here. So just for listeners to understand the reason why the book is called your husband and his mother is because across all relationships we do see tensions with family members and that's normal. Let's, let's really contextualize. This doesn't make you a bad family. It means you're human. And this is what happens when you're all different people. And there's a special dynamic that happens between a wife and his mother. So a wife and her mother in law. And it's tricky because for some people there's role changes. For other people there's this sense of insecurity that shows up of, you know, as the mother to my son, do I even matter in your family anymore? What role am I going to play? If you're doing it differently than me, it doesn't mean that I did it wrong. And it's also then about expectations that can show up between two people and them not being communicated. And you touched on something so important right there. Because oftentimes women are the king keepers in families and they're the ones who are believed to be doing all the mental load things well and often are. And so often are. Yes. And then you have a different generation coming into the home and expecting. So mother in law expects daughter in law to host all the things, to say yes to the things, to be the communicator. When oftentimes a daughter in law is saying, whoa, I'm just trying to manage my family and all the other mental load tasks that I'm trying to do, I can't. I'll also still manage your family.
- [11:24]
William Curb
Yeah, it's so easy to forget that these things are not explicitly stated. Often they're said with, you know, behind other things like oh, someone you know, didn't have time for the baseboards or something. And it's like that's what you're saying.
- [11:40]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Oh, I love that you've brought this up because it's the death by a thousand paper cuts analogy where when you take it in isolation. That one comment, it's, it's just a comment. Baseboards, you know, oh gosh, don't look at the baseboards. And then on the other hand, when it's the repeated comments, if it's the baseboards, if it's about why does your baby not have socks on? Or if it's about why haven't you done all these things? Then it starts to feel like, whoa, you're coming at me and oh, this is not feeling so good. And what's with all these comments? And it really then asks on us of what we're going to do with it. And William, oftentimes what I see is that one partner will turn to their partner and say, wow, did you hear what your mother just said to me? That was really hard. That hurt. And oftentimes it is the woman saying it to her husband and her husband with good intentions will say, that's just mom. It's not that big of a deal. That's just mom. She just shows up that way. And so of course, what a partner then feels is dismissed, minimized. Like her experience doesn't exist. And that's really where couples start to feel this tension together because they're missing seeing what the key issue is here.
- [12:54]
William Curb
Yeah, absolutely. I think because as the like male in the relationship, you often don't. You're like, oh yeah, that's just how that person is. And I'm not feeling that from them. Like, this is what I grew up with. This is how it just is. And I don't feel that emotion. So I trying to be to assuage you that it's not bad, but that's not how it's often interpreted. Because when your experiences are dismissed, it feels very awful.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
And there's a good reason why people do that. Dismissing and defensiveness. I mean that can be around anything. When we think about if it's the kids, if it's the dishes, if it's the in laws, if it's sex that you get defensive or you dismiss things because deep down inside you're trying to protect something. It's a defense mechanism. And then sometimes what we hear, it touches this shame button, like, oh, I'm not adequate. Ooh, if, if my mom is bad, quotations bad, or you think my mom is bad, then what does that mean about me? And so it attaches so much deeper inside of us. That's why we get dismissive and defensive. We just want to just make it go away. We don't have to deal with that.
- [14:02]
William Curb
And another way I was thinking about when I was initially contacted by you, and I was thinking about this in relationship with adhd for men and boys that were diagnosed quite young with adhd, they have had a lot of support throughout their lives for their adhd, and their mother kind of expects that to continue.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Oh, yeah, Tell me more. Keep going.
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William Curb
Well, I was just thinking back to, I wasn't diagnosed until my 20s, but for my own mother, she spent a lot of times just like taking care of things that did very suddenly shift when I moved out and was like, oh, yeah, now I'm doing this. But occasionally she'd just step in and do stuff and I'd be like, oh. And my wife would be like, oh, your mom's taking care of that.
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Podcast Host
That's weird.
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William Curb
Oh, yeah, that's weird that she can be so involved sometimes.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yeah. So you're talking about this really special relationship between mother and son. And then I also think that, you know, as parents in general to any of our children, boys or girls, we want to look after them and nurture them. Mothers are the ones who are there when you score your first soccer goal, when you come home after being hurt on your bike, when you go off to college, they're there. Right. And they have this special bond with you. And of course, parents want to care and nurture and give. And then sometimes part of that is also not helping. You have your own resources and resilience to have the systems in place to help you do the things. And then what's tricky is that then you get into this union with your partner and they're like, why are you doing that? But, like, what's going on? Why aren't you doing it yourself? And that is a little bit of a dilemma in that sense. And then when you mentioned the. The children who are diagnosed young. Yes, absolutely. Because moms are the ones who have been putting those systems in place. And so they want to continue to see that happen. Instead of what I think is really important, when we look at this triangle, instead of her saying, you're now an adult, I trust that you can go and do this and I'm going to turn you towards your partner. It really, in a healthy family system, we turn adult children towards their partner rather than dividing them and saying things like, and William, I'll just say some of the couples that I've worked with, so I've had stories where mothers in law come over to their daughters in law house and they'll say something like, oh, my son's lost some weight, or are you feeding him what Are you cooking him? Or they'll start to say, has he been taking his vitamins? Have you been looking after him? And it's this. Then passing this baton to someone to say, you then have to look after me.
- [16:37]
William Curb
And that's. I mean, having that, that kind of relationship where someone is taking care of the other one can be something that often falls into a neurodivergent relationship where if one person doesn't have ADHD or, you know, both partners are adhd, you'll still often see one partner being like, well, I'm taking care of all these things. And that's tough.
- [16:58]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yes. Yeah. And so I also then think of some of the common things that show up for couples I'll hear from women particularly of. I told him to go and contact his mom and make plans for the holidays, and he didn't. Or he was so focused on the work project, but then didn't come and check with me about the family project that we're trying to do. And the family plan wins around Thanksgiving. And so it's tricky because then if you don't understand who your partner is, if you don't understand how you both operate in the best way, and holding in mind that saying to your partner while they're looking at the computer screen, don't forget to call your mom to talk about Thanksgiving, they might not register that. And then that task isn't in their system. Right. Their system of how they're going to do things and how they're going to execute it. It's not in that. So then a week later, she comes back and says, why don't you call your mom? And if she doesn't understand that these are part of the ADHD presentation, then often what I hear from my clients, they'll say, he doesn't care about me. He doesn't think about me. And it becomes this really personal experience rather than saying, okay, wait, hang on, I hear it's hitting a wound for you. And I bet that wound has been with you for a really long time. And we're going to come back to that. But first, let's just put that back to your partner and hold in mind, who is he? What do we know about him? How did we communicate this? How did you two come together and look at your plan for the week and set up those systems to do that so it could actually take place? And then we're going to come back and look at. So when your partner doesn't do something, you immediately go to. I don't matter. What's this about and what are those feelings and can we work through that.
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William Curb
So often as the, the thing that's caused the, the ripple is not the first thing. Like it's the death by a thousand cuts. It's the little thing at the end where you're just like, really? This is how things are going to be.
- [18:57]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Oh, yes. And then also too. So I always say to couples, it's not you versus me. That's where people come into therapy. They say to me, Dr. Tracy, change him. He's the problem. He doesn't initiate date nights. He's not calling his mom. We haven't. And whatever it is, he's the problem. Change him. And I say to everybody, okay, hang on. We're going to put the problems in front of you here. I have a coffee table in my office. It's going to be right here. And it's you and me against the problem. And this framework shift is so important because then we're on the same team. We're no longer playing tennis singles, we're playing tennis doubles. Who's got the ball? Who's moving where? How do we do this together? Understanding what our strengths and weaknesses are and what's coming up this week, next week, next month. So that it's not a battle of who's right or wrong, it's more of a how do we do this as a team?
- [19:52]
William Curb
Yeah, absolutely. I mean I do the same thing with my kids as well where we're like, hey, we want this to happen. How can we work together especially. And I think this is doubly important with ADHD struggles because often the person with ADHD is struggling and they do want to do better. They just need better systems and you know, working with someone else can really help that.
- [20:15]
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- [20:55]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
And sometimes if someone one partner doesn't have a diagnosis. I think of a lot of women who come in after having children and were they're high functioning individuals, they have learned early strategies in life. They were doing, doing all the things top of their game and then one Kid comes along, two kid comes along. And it's literally like that backpack that they've always been managing is now this kind of massive wheelbarrow on their back and it's too heavy. And so those systems they used to rely on just aren't working anymore. And oftentimes, you know, there is, I think of the mothers and women, especially in middle life where we're talking about, maybe we need to explore this a bit further because now we're seeing it interfere with work, like your functioning is interfering with work. And, and you're coming in and telling me for years now, even after the kids are starting to grow and you're not in those newborn postpartum days, you're still overwhelmed and something else might be happening here and how can we then put supports in place for you? These strategies will be the same, but when we have that diagnosis, it can sometimes be really helpful for us.
- [22:04]
William Curb
Yeah, absolutely. And this is also just resonating with some of the other conversations I had recently with how hormones shift as your ADHD symptoms as you get older and then burnout and like adding all these things. You're like, even so, like the, you had this initial thing that like kind of set things off and that. But getting back to your baseline is so hard because things are different now. Even though it doesn't feel different. They are.
- [22:26]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yes. I'm so glad you brought this into the conversation because this really is a couple's piece here, this couple piece here where how do we work together when I know what's, what I'm like and what's happening for me and how my brain works and then I think of my partner, what's happening for them and how their brain works. And with hormonal changes, monthly changes, we're not on the same 24 hour cycle as men and instead 28 day plus or minus. And so we're not going to be the same as we were last week and this week. And if you're in the stage where you're not going to be sleeping the days before your period arrives, then you're going to struggle, symptoms are going to be worse, it's going to be harder to concentrate. And then as you start shifting into perimenopause and menopause again, we're tackling new seasons that really require couples to keep checking in with each other and having these conversations. And William, I really do see women coming to this point and that's why this book is so needed right now and why this conversation is so important. Because women get to this Burnout point. And they say, I have been managing this as best I could. I am exhausted, I am burnt out. I love your family. And I can't keep hosting Thanksgiving dinner because it takes me two weeks to recover or two weeks to plan and two weeks to recover. And I've lost a month of the year and I don't want to do that anymore.
- [23:48]
William Curb
Always the thing that I'm amazed with, like, even when I'm having everything going wrong in my personal life, there's also a bunch of other stuff going on too, that I'm like, that's still happening. And I'm like, looking at the news and being like, that's happening. And, you know, there's school events and everything.
- [24:03]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Oh, my goodness, school events. And then also too, even just the small moments you and I had both said, we're on the same team in this, in this conversation. So I said it to my older kid the other day. And we're all in the kitchen, we're kind of having the snack time. Like, I love the stories at snack time. So I'm hanging out in the kitchen with them and there are some big feelings. I said, hey, bud, we're on the same team. And then my little one's like, mom, you've never told me that. Tears. And then I'm having to do the managing both emotions. And then like, we're like, okay, well, and it's 8pm and in my mind I want to be off the clock at 8pm and then my partner's not stepping in to do bedtime and I'm starting to get angry and it's like, ah, how do we put them on? And it just really is. And I share these stories, William, and this is something that I love doing. Working with people, doing podcasts and presentations and talks is that people often think couples therapists or psychologists, that we've just got it all together. And I know you've had some great conversations here on the podcast. Who are other professionals that show up as human? And it is so powerful when I can sit with someone and say, I get it, this stage in life, this season, it's so hard and you've got so much that you're managing and how can we then make sure that you have this sense of resilience at home? And I know sometimes, especially as parents, we're like, okay, you know what? Two year old meltdowns? How do I deal with toddler bedtimes? How do I deal with toddler meltdowns? I want to do that. I need to get the solution right away. And my argument or, you know, when I'm on my soapbox to couples, I say yes. And we want you to have those skills and tools and strategies. But if you and your partner can't even look at each other and be in the same room, if you're feeling so disconnected, like your two ships passing in the night, everything is going to feel harder. You are more resilient in your physical wellness, in your mental wellness, in your ability to problem solve together, when you are more connected and you feel like you're on the same team.
- [26:03]
William Curb
Yeah, it's one of the funny things I've done when like maybe my wife goes off for a trip and like, it's all me doing stuff and I do great. You know, I'm like, I can like do everything, but it's one of those things where I realize I'm doing really well because I know I don't have any backup and I have to really focus in and I am borrowing from my future self to make sure that I am on it this entire time and that we're getting everything. And so it's exhausting and I don't have time to take off for myself. And so it's one of those things where, hey, even though I can manage on my own really well, I'm so thankful that I have a partner that can also step in when I need it.
- [26:41]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Oh, there's something so connective about that experience. I know so many people will share this and I remember talking about it with my community in the sense of why am a better parent when I'm alone? Because, you know, it's just you and you have no expectations of the other person and it's your boundaries and not someone else's. And I think of bedtime as a common struggle for couples where one partner is like three stories only. You only do three. It's from this pile of the short books. Don't do that. You don't. You do this and then you get out of there. We wrap it up at 8pm, we got a bow, One glass of water, one bathroom use, back to bed. And then the other partner steps in and they're on story five and then they're on story ten and then it's an hour later and the other partner is like, what are you doing? Well, this isn't what we agreed on for bedtime. And it instantly becomes a you versus me. Instead, when we're by ourselves, we build those resources. But I love that you've just said that because you really do borrow from your future self when you have to do those things. And I think that's this piece, too, around conflict. When you are in conflict constantly with your partner, you're taking away the opportunity to find and feel pleasure, play, laughter, joy. And when I say pleasure, yes, it might be in the bedroom, but it might also just be you putting on that 90s playlist and dancing together and laughing and, you know, just feeling that sense of connection. But we lose that when we get into conflict.
- [28:12]
William Curb
Yeah, absolutely. Because when you're fighting with your spouse, you're like, I don't want to play a card game right now. No, I. In fact, I don't. I want to go over there and just look at my phone.
- [28:21]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Oh, that brings me to this next piece. In some ways of just kind of like building on our conversation here, where couples will say, I don't know how to get back on the same page. Like, we. We've had this row, and now I don't know what to do. It feels like the fire has just combusted in front of us. You know, there was a little. I lit the spark, and then he poured the gasoline on. And then now we're, like, on opposite end room, not even looking at each other. And when it comes to these moments for couples, there are three things that you can do that are so powerful, and they also don't. It doesn't mean that you've solved the issue, but it means you can feel close at that moment to not lose your night together. You can say, can I have a mulligan? So that's golf. Golf is like, you do that one shot, you get one. I think you get one mulligan. My husband's the golfer. I'm. I'm like, nine holes max. And so he, you know, it's like, can I have the mulligan? And that's a redo. So then if you were short, you go to your partner and you say, listen, I'm so sorry I was short earlier, and I want to say it again. I came out harshly. What I really meant to say is, I'm so glad that we're in this together. Or, you know, I'm feeling overwhelmed, and I just need a little bit of extra support tonight. That's the mulligan. The second piece is going down the road of gratitude or appreciation. Even when you're like. You're putting your stake in the ground, and you're like, they have to come to me first. They were the ones who got defensive. They have, you know, no, be the bigger person. Go to Your partner put your ego to the side and say, you know, I know we've got this hard moment here, but I'm so grateful that it's you and I in this together. Who doesn't want to hear that? We all want to hear that in some way. And then the other one that I think is really helpful for people is touch. Put your hand on their shoulder and squeeze them. Or if you walk behind them and squeeze their shoulders, grab their hand and squeeze them. That's a very connective way. It's a very soothing way to come together, to downregulate the dysregulation that you're feeling, healing from that conflict, that those are just those three ways that could really disarm each other so you can come back closer so you don't end the night in that gridlock argument.
- [30:24]
William Curb
One thing that my kids brought back from school is like, three hand squeezes means I love you. And that's like a really easy. Just be like, oh, like, look at them walking with, you know, my wife or my kids and just, you know, quick three hand squeezes and don't have to say anything, especially with neurodivergence. And can be hard to talk when you're upset. So that's like a great way to be like, I'm not talking, but still here with you.
- [30:48]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yeah, it's the. We're not gonna be able to resolve everything instantly. And I do think that's the other piece of. Of couples really creating this road map of each other. And you can do this for every member in your family. The roadmap of when William's upset. It doesn't work for me to come and give more words to him, but instead I can do the three hand squeezes to say, hey, we're good. Don't worry, we're on the same team. I'm in this with you. And I think when we even tap into that, it touches on these core needs that we all have. And core needs are not things like, I need help with dishes. They're not boundaries, like, tell your mom we're not coming for Thanksgiving dinner. They're things about what's deeper inside of us that are attached to attachment longings. And that's, I need to know that I belong here. I need to feel connection. I need freedom and power. Power is a good thing, not a bad thing. There. I highlight them in one of my sections of the book because the fourth step really does help couples set those limits and boundaries so that they can be on the same team and communicate that but in order to do this boundary piece, because of course, boundaries are a hot word. It's what we talk about all the time. When it comes to extended family members, when it comes to each other and our relationship, when it comes to our kids. What's the boundary really about? And that's what we need to discover to come back together.
- [32:15]
William Curb
Yeah. And it's one thing I always try to remind people when we talk about boundaries is people can't break your boundaries. You're breaking them yourself because it's what you're setting up as your what's acceptable.
- [32:25]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
We're going there. William. I love this. It's so important because a lot of people come and say, I set the boundary. I'll use mother in law. Ganja, just given the topic of our book, I set the boundary with my mother in law. Even my husband said it and said, hey, mom, don't come over unannounced. We're not going to open the door to you unannounced because, you know, baby sleeping, maybe mom's feeding or nursing or whatever it is that she's doing. She's in the shower, she's sleeping, whatever. And when mom comes over and knocks on the door unannounced on Tuesday afternoon and my client says, I say to my client, so what did you do? And she says, well, I let her in. She shows up on my door. She's not respecting my boundaries. And my response to her is, you didn't respect your boundary. You didn't uphold the limit to her. And so when we make requests to people, they can do what they want, but the boundary is whether I'm going to let you in or not, because that's my choice. I can't control if she drives by and stops in the driveway. I can't control how often she knocks on my doorway. But I get to have a sense of agency and choice around what I'm willing or not willing to do in those moments when she arrives in the doorstep unannounced.
- [33:39]
William Curb
Yeah. And by not holding to your side of the thing, you're telling them, well, yeah, this is actually okay.
- [33:45]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
You give permission to other people. It's. It's so interesting when we think about how we communicate with people. A lot of people will say, well, yeah, I told them that I didn't want to talk about adhd or I didn't want to talk about parenting choices right now. And I gave them all the reasons why we're doing the things that we're doing. And so I'll say to clients, oh, so you gave permission to talk about it by listing off all of the justifications for why you're doing the thing. And that, I think is something that we often lose touch with is that a boundary is not about you having to over explain yourself for your decision, your choice, or your need.
- [34:25]
William Curb
Yeah. Because, yeah, if someone like brings up a topic, it's like, oh, I'm not comfortable talking about that. They keep doing it. You're like, I'm gonna have to leave the conversation.
- [34:32]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yes. And then we can talk about self boundaries where, you know, you're, you're at the Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner table and you have just your, your body is holding on to because, you know, at every dinner someone brings up politics and then they bring it up and you're like, oh, so what are you gonna do in that moment? You can't control them. You get to choose, am I going to engage in this conversation? Or that self boundary is. I'm not going to engage in this. So you get up, you go to the bathroom, you splash cold water on your face, maybe you vent to the text buddy, and be like, oh my gosh, here we go again. We're right in politics, as expected. Right. Because, you know, I always love to say that families are predictable and consistent. And then you go back to the table and if the conversations moved on, then you start talking about, you know, the Chiefs or whatever sport you're watching. The Blue Jays here in Canada are doing really well in baseball right now. So, you know, whatever, whatever shows up.
- [35:25]
William Curb
There's always something else to talk about. Especially as neurodivergent individuals where we have lots of interests and you know what? They're not interested. It doesn't matter because I'm still interested in talking about, you know, my Lego collection or whatever.
- [35:37]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yeah, I love that.
- [35:39]
William Curb
One of the things that this was making me think about here is just how with this relationship with adhd, it's this complication that gets added in. It's not. This is something that everyone's going to be dealing with, but you also have this just add flare. So like we're talking about. Yeah, we have, you know, with the self boundaries, we have this added in aspect of, you know, impulsivity. Like, even if we have, like, I'm not going to talk about this, but you just said the one thing that triggered so many things in my head. I cannot stop.
- [36:07]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
And it is that extra layer in there. I'm curious for you. What do you do in those moments where you feel like getting into those conversations that maybe you don't want to or you get side railed down something that you didn't really want to do. What is it that that like what's your top hack that you use?
- [36:23]
William Curb
It depends on how hot button the issue is. From my brain where someone says something, I'm like just thinking of a recent example where someone was talking to about trans rights stuff and had not an opinion I was really happy with. And I was just like yeah, we're just not going to have that going on. Like that's not okay. You need like trans rights or human rights. You cannot just ignore this and walked away from the situation because it was not something I was like. I'm not going to change your opinion and I'm just going to be mad if I keep doing this.
- [36:53]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Of course. So I think it's really interesting with that. So I think there's this element here where an earlier I said family is. They're predictable and consistent. So you can almost know that if every holiday event someone makes a body comment or someone makes a, a trans comment, you can prepare yourself for that. And that's the preparation. And you and your partner can sit down and say what are we going to do in this moment? Especially you know, many parents tackle this. What are we going to do in front of our kids? And that, William, is that fifth step in my book the Vault. So in my book it's the vault method. There's five steps to help you and your partner get on the same team and have that better relationship. And I really walk couples through of identifying who you are, what you bring into the relationship, who your mother in law is and what she brings into this dynamic. And I think for a lot of us then we have to sit down ahead of time and say how do we want to deal with this when it happens and what, what things are we going to put into place to ensure we're on the same team? And also recognizing. I know you say this here with your listeners. We're human, we're going to make mistakes. So when we leave that family event to not rail at each other. Right? So here's the example that commonly shows up at my therapy room. The family event happens. They had the plan, it didn't go as planned. They get into the car and she's angry at her husband. You said you were going to and then you didn't and all of this happened, Right? So you were supposed to say something when your mom criticized our kid's appearance or something like that. And then partner misses it. All of the other things that we're looking on in there. I talk a lot in the book about how our nervous systems go on autopilot when we're in the context of family systems, because that's how our bodies learn to stay safe. That's how our brains learn to survive and remain connected to caregivers as children. We repeat those patterns as we grow up. And so what we want to do after these events is also spend time first acknowledging what you both did really well and how you had this plan, you slowed it down, you looked at what you were going to do, and it didn't come out that way. And that's okay, because now we have more information that we can learn what to do next time. But we have to come in with compassion and curiosity for each other and not criticism and contempt.
- [39:16]
William Curb
And I find one thing that's always been helpful for me is just to be. To slow down and be like. Not stew in the emotion, but be like, hey, this is how I'm feeling. And this is why. This is especially helpful with my kids when I'm like, they are minutes away from, like, everything going wrong today because I lose my cool. And so I'm just like, hey, this is what you're doing right now is really frustrating me. And we need to figure out how we can get through this. The first time I did this, and they're like, oh, okay. I was like, oh. They had no idea that this was what was going on. And that was like a huge light bulb for me. I'm like, oh, this communication piece applies to all my relationships.
- [39:55]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yes. And. And because it's what you're doing there, too. And I think a lot of parents miss doing this with their kids. You're doing self and other, and that what creates a healthy relationship. You're saying, me, dad, William, I'm having an experience, and I'm letting you know it's not your fault. I'm not yelling at you or shaming you or blaming you. And we're not doing all that messy stuff, but we're just saying, I'm having experience. And then the other person in this case, your kids can say, oh, okay, that's, you know, good to know. Thanks for letting us know. And then we can then all figure out what we need to do next. Like, you know, we're going to raise volume. We're going to, like, decrease volumes. We're going to kind of maybe raise body movements, like, whatever that is that's needed for everybody. But I want to really put this in the context of relationships, because I think Oftentimes what people do is they get stuck in the content. And oftentimes when couples are in my therapy room, I'm not really looking for who's right or wrong. And I've had couples argue over things that you wouldn't even believe. I mean, how to boil a pot of water the right way. It wasn't about the pot of water, by the way. How to cut vegetables was the start of an argument, which, again, it's not about cutting vegetables, but there's this element in here where we want to walk around what's happening in that moment. And you doing that is saying, oh, I'm feeling frustrated right now. I need this. So you're not going into the issue. You're just simply saying, I'm having this experience, and here's what I need, and it's so powerful.
- [41:31]
William Curb
Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of those things where it goes back to the we're on the same team, and it's when you're not feeling on the same team, that's really hard to do. But when you bring it back, this same thing with the I'm waiting for the apology kind of thing, where, you know, I've been in that situation, I'm like. And then, like, at some point, I'm just like, why am I waiting for an apology? That's not how teams work. If I'm a teammate, I'm going to help them get to it.
- [41:57]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yes. I'm going to initiate this and come together with them.
- [42:01]
William Curb
Yeah. And it's a. To get something I always want to model to my kids is like, if I mess up with them, I apologize, because that's an important thing to do.
- [42:10]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Such a powerful skill.
- [42:12]
William Curb
And then also do really work on the aspect of actually apologizing and not being like, I'm sorry I made you feel that way, or I'm sorry, but. Yeah, the I'm sorry but. Or the because you did this, and it's like, no, this is. I need to. It was not okay for me to say that or to yell or whatever. I'm sorry that I did that. Let's try and work it so that we won't make this happen again.
- [42:39]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
That ability to come back together is such a powerful skill. And I say to people, drop your ego. It's not about you being wrong. Recognize that you're putting your relationship before your need to be right, and that will get you a long way.
- [42:56]
William Curb
All right. I was wondering if you had any final thoughts that you wanted to leave the audience with.
- [43:00]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Yeah, you know, I'M thinking about my book coming out and just how many people struggle with this conversation and I want people to know that this is a book that's for you to build and strengthen relationships. So whether you have a good relationship with your mother in law or you are about to get married or you're about to have a baby or you know your friend is going to have a baby soon, right? We know these big milestones show up for all people in some way and something that's so powerful is being able to have the skills and tools and awareness of this ahead of time so you and your partner can get the same page. Because that piece about you being on the same page really helps you to navigate all of this stress that's going to show up. And just remember that as long as we're coming back together and repairing and we're not hurting each other and using vulnerability as something to weaponize against them when we can come back together, that's just everything.
- [43:53]
William Curb
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm sure a lot of people really got a lot out of this.
- [43:58]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Thank you so much William, and thank you for everyone who tuned in today.
- [44:05]
Podcast Host
Thanks again to Dr. Tracy for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Before you go though, let's do a quick rundown of Today's top tips.
- [44:14]
William Curb
1.
- [44:14]
Podcast Host
Work on shifting. Shifting from me versus you to us versus the problem. This shift in mindset can completely change how a couple navigates conflict. By reframing the conflict, you can turn what could have been just another argument into a shared problem. Now I do want to add on here that as well, this is a learned skill and it does take time to develop so it won't happen overnight, but it is well worth doing. 2. Boundaries aren't about controlling someone else's behavior, they're about choosing how you'll respond to that behavior. We often sabotage our own boundaries by trying to over explain them and then giving people justifications that sound like permission to debate our choices. You can't stop someone from knocking, but you can decide whether you'll open the door. 3. Try building a roadmap of each other's regulation styles. While everyone has different ways of dealing with stress and certainly with adhd, emotional regulation can be quite unpredictable, but knowing them in advance can help prevent future frustrations when things get heated. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over@hackingyouradhd.com contact if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes page@hackingyouradhd.com 255 and if you'd like even more hacking your ADHD, be sure to sign up for my newsletter Any and all Distractions Distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions of the week. Either what I'm reading, what I'm playing, or what I'm watching, or anything in between. I also try to give out a few bits of actionable advice in each newsletter, although your mileage is certainly going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com newsletter to sign up. I also wanted to make sure that you knew about our Patreon, which you can find@hackingyouradhd.com Patreon it's a pay what you want model model, meaning that you can give any amount, be it 0, 2 5, 10, whatever you want. It gets all the same stuff and it gives you access to the Hacking youg ADHD discord. So if either of those things sound like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com Patreon and also, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, which you can find@YouTube.com adhackingyouradhd and finally.
- [46:20]
William Curb
If you'd like another way to support.
- [46:21]
Podcast Host
The show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them. Just click the Share button on your podcast player. And now for your moment of dad. People with glasses may look smart, but remember they had to fail a test to get them.
- [46:46]
Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
What do you think makes the perfect snack?
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AMPM Advertiser
Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
Could you be more specific when it's cravenient?
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AMPM Advertiser
Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at AM pm.
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Dr. Tracy Dahlklish
I'm seeing a pattern here.
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AMPM Advertiser
Well yeah, we're talking about what I.
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TikTok Advertiser
Crave, which is anything from am, pm.
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AMPM Advertiser
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