C (2:57)

But.

B (2:57)

But first I thought it would be great if we could just start to hear a little bit about your ADHD story, your journey and how you kind of got here.

C (3:05)

Sure. First of all, thanks so much for having me. So my ADHD story is probably very familiar to a lot of folks. So I was actually diagnosed in second year university at the University of Waterloo. And it was one of those things where when the doctor actually raised it, they raised it as a. Well, how long have you known you've had adhd? And for me I was like, wait, what, what are you saying? Say more like, what do you mean I have adhd? And so it kind of came as a surprise, but the moment they started talking a little bit about what it was, what it meant, it was very quick for me to sort of triangulate what my experiences were, not just in that moment as a university student, but it helped me make sense of a lot of the behaviors and challenges I had growing up. And I think that happens a lot for folks. Right. I think particularly for women. You know, there's a whole generation of us that kind of flew under the radar because the diagnost criteria for so long was based on observed behaviors in young boys that everyone was used to the hyperactive components of adhd and they were looking out for those versus the inattentive. And so, you know, hearing the words, hearing the language, hearing the behaviors helped me make sense of many, many years of challenge. And since then it's been, you know, not just making sense of it for myself, but thinking through not just the challenges and how to make those easier, but what are the unique strengths and gifts that are coming with my ADHD that we can harness and use as an advant advantage.

B (4:30)

Yeah, just such a common story for people where they're just like, oh, I had no idea. People around them were like, oh, yeah, it's obvious that you have adhd. But the person themselves are like, but I had no idea. Like, I just. Isn't this how everyone's brain works?

C (4:41)

Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, even recognizing. I think I always knew that I was a little bit different. We struggled at things that my two older sisters found really easy. And so I never really had a way to make sense of that. But then the moment you hear that there's actually something associated with it. There's a reason for it. My brain operates a little bit differently. There's that sense of oh, holy cannoli. But there's also a moment of relief because you recognize there are other people in the foxhole with you. And so it stops this like lonely feeling of being the one off the square peg in the round hole and says, okay, there's a whole community of us that experience the world a little bit differently. And so what does it mean for us?

B (5:15)

Yeah, absolutely. Because I know with my diagnosis, because I was diagnosed in my 20s and yeah, when I was looked back in my youth, I was like, oh, that makes so much sense for so many things and it informs so many aspects of my life that I didn't. I'm still finding ways where I'm like, oh yeah, that's because of adhd. And it's. Sometimes I'm like, what parts of my personality aren't affected? I'm like, well, clearly everything in my life is going to be at least somewhat affected by my adhd. It's not like there's a little part of my brain that's fenced off that's we're not going to hear about.

C (5:45)

Yeah, exactly. It's an integrated part of you and it's great and it's big and it's beautiful and there's a lot that comes with it. But coming to terms with that is always a little bit of a journey for everyone.

B (5:54)

And I do think it's also. I love the point you're making too, about looking at where your strengths come to from that. Because there are. While I don't like subscribing to the idea of like ADHD being a superpower or anything, I do think, yeah, it comes with strengths and weaknesses. It's just like anybody else has strengths and weaknesses. It's just ours are informed by this condition.

C (6:13)

Yeah. And for me, I like taking that strengths based approach, whether or not you want to call it a superpower. There are, when we think about ADHD or really any kind of neurodivergence, it's about information processing. Right. So when I think about the inputs that I take in those might look a little bit different from the average person. I might notice things a little bit differently. I might process them differently internally, and then the outputs are going to look a little bit different potentially as well. For better or for worse, that can be a strength that's harnessed. Right. I know there are skill clusters associated with ADHD around pattern recognition, information processing speed, creativity, alternative solutioning. There's a lot that I would say are truly gifts. And, you know, when harnessed correctly, they can be your strategic advantage, whether in the workplace or in life. And of course, there are going to be the challenges as well. But the work that we need to figure out when we're. When we're dealing with leaders in the workplace is how can you harness those strengths and then how can you address the challenges so that you can operate with a level of ease? Right. You can be naturally yourself.

B (7:11)

Yeah. It's so easy to get caught up on where we have the deficits that it can be hard to see where it's like, oh, well, I am good at these things. And I know I have personally have sometimes trouble with being, like, being good at something. Well, I mean, well, that means that thing's not hard and it's not worthwhile. And it's like, well, no, it's just. It's easy because I'm really good at it.

C (7:32)

Exactly, Exactly. We have those natural inclinations. Our bodies and our brains just process things a little bit differently. And sometimes you hopping into a space or a body of work and it just comes naturally. And, you know, everyone has that. Everyone has those things that they're naturally gifted at. For us, it just looks a little bit different sometimes.

B (7:51)

It's always funny, too. And I, like, run into people that have, like, massively different strengths than me, and I'm just like, how are you so good at that? I could never do these, like, certain tests and they're like, oh, yeah, this is just like, I don't do math particularly well, but I have, like, friends that are just like, I play these board games with, and they're like, just doing these, like, really complex equations in their heads. And I'm like, well, I'm going to leave that to you and trust that you got that right, because there's no way I'm going to be able to figure that out.

C (8:13)

Exactly. You can always play to your strengths and you can always sort of figure out, I think there's something really beautiful about encountering someone and being like all these things that you're fantastic at. I'm deeply Terrible. And so I'm glad I have you around. We can balance each other out.

B (8:26)

Yeah. It also reminds me of, like, when I used to play sports and stuff. I specifically played a lot of ultimate Frisbee. And, you know, you have people that are really good at running and really people really good at throwing the disc. And combining those is how you get a team that works together really well. And it's not just about your individual skills. I think a lot of people focus too much on what they can do, not what they can do with the people around them.

C (8:46)

Exactly, exactly. And to me, this is one of those fundamental aspects of team design that we really need to be intentional about these days. Right. I think the most effective leaders are the ones that hire for their deficits. They look around, they say, these are the areas where I'm not great at, or these are some fixed beliefs that I know I hold. So let me bring diversity of thought in, let me bring a diversity of skills in so that we can harmonize together as a unit. We can sort of solve for each other's definites, and we can sort of create a whole. A group that can functionally address a whole multitude of issues and challenges in the workplace.

B (9:17)

And it makes so much sense to think about it that way because, like, as a society, we never. There's very few instances where it's just us against the world. It's usually the community against whatever we need to solve. And we do then do want to be putting people in the best place for them to thrive, including ourselves, which again, something I'm still learning to do.

C (9:37)

I think we all are. I think that's part of the journey. Right. Regardless of whether or not you have adhd, that concept of thriving, and especially today, given all the complexity around us, I think we constantly have to think about it and say, what does it mean for us to thrive? What will it feel like, what will it look like, and how do we get there?

B (9:52)

There is the aspects of wanting to improve where I have some of my weaknesses and be at least compens certain things, you know, like making sure I can answer my emails or something like that. Making sure that I can have my desk as a workable space and not completely covered in papers. Like, I can learn skills to do that, but there are other things where I'm like, oh, well, I maybe with emails, I just outsource that.

C (10:15)

I'm a very big fan of that. So one of the things I do and I encourage all of my coaching clients to do as well, is establish what we call an mvr, which is a minimum viable routine. So on a day to day basis, what are the things as a functioning adult or within the context of your work that you absolutely have to get done no matter what? And I'll say things like certainly answering my emails, but feeding my dog a specific amount of food at a specific amount of time walking him. There are days where I get into hyper focus and I'll forget that Tucker needs to go out right now until he comes and he starts pawing at me. And so I start to think about and I encourage my clients to think about what are the things you can automate. So he has an automatic feeder, gives them the precise amount of food at the precise times. I have alarms that go off when he needs to go for a walk a specific couple of days a week because I know those are the days where I tend to be running behind. I already organize a dog walk or I outsource certain things. You know, I have a virtual assistant that actually takes care of organizing my mail and helping me prioritize it so that I'm spending my time on the things that are most effective. Normally my calendar looks like a horrendous game of Tetris that I'm failing at. So getting, you know, an automated system that helps move around blocks based on that prioritization tools like motion or whatever. The joy is we have the technology and we have a lot of options. So the work is trying to figure out where we need that support and then figuring out what tools and support structures we can implement that are within our budget and within our scope to help give us that sense of ease. Time to share this week's wellness wins and healthy habits.

B (11:44)

Honestly, Wendy, I didn't track my goals, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.

C (11:51)

That's not part of our wellness journey.

B (11:53)

Well, I'm switching from AT&T and starting a transformation with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.

A (12:04)

The low app introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost to switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone16128 gigabyte $8,029.99 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified Credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T mobile.

B (12:34)

What are some ways that people can kind of learn what their strengths are? Because I know sometimes I just brush off what I think is a strength because I'm like, oh, that's just too easy. That's clearly not a strength. And so it's hard to be like, reflect and be like, oh, this is what something I'm actually good at.

C (12:48)

Yeah. So I would say establishing a deep reflection practice is really important. And I would always recommend starting with energy management. So on a weekly basis, start to track just conversations that you walk away and you feel incredibly energized or bodies of work that you jump into and you love the work product, you love the work. Anytime that you, you feel that mood, that energy boost moving up, start tracking those things down and then start to evaluate the things that are depleting. So I think that's a really great starting point for you to start evaluating what about these activities give me that boost. Is it the types of people I engage with? Is it the types of conversations or the content? Or, you know, when we think about bodies of work, like certain types of puzzles, you know, certain types of problem solving really get me revved up. Because it is a side of my brain that's associated with pattern recognition, which is one of my core strengths. And so being able to understand your body knows your body is a data engine and it's constantly giving you signals. And so I think as someone with ADHD or someone who's neurodivergent in any way, navigating somatic awareness and being able to be in tune with your body and say, you know, when I'm energized, I can feel this, like, tingling in my fingers and I can feel myself smile. I can feel some energy in my, in my stomach and my chest. You know, I'm talking faster, I'm typing faster. Recognizing those signs in yourself and then catching those moments and saying, what is my body telling me about what I'm doing right now? And then those moments of depletion, taking stock of those and saying, why is this so depleting for me, why is this de energizing? What about this task was most frustrating? You know, if I were to address that one little irksome bit. For me, it's certain types of organization organizing information in specific ways. If I can find an alternative solution for that, is it still an arduous task for me or am I still strong at it? It's just one componen it so that Reflective piece, I think, is the most.

B (14:36)

Important when we're doing that reflective piece. Staying out of our own judgment there. Because I get so. It's so easy to fall into that habit of being like, oh, I was that bad because I can't do anything. I'm like, well, that's not helpful. It does mentally feel good in a terrible way. But it. Because it's like, this is an easy answer. I don't have to think about it. It's like, no, let's try and move beyond. Like, we know it's not just because I'm bad at it. There's a component that I'm bad at. What is that?

C (15:02)

Get curious about yourself. That's half the battle, right? Is, you know, see if you can look at yourself from a bird's eye view as a third person and look at all of the pieces. It's basically moving from the dance floor to the balcony and looking at yourself and studying yourself and saying, what are the things around me? What am I not observing that I could be observing? Asking yourself questions, what is this feeling? What is this? This is really hard for me. Why is it hard for me? Is it easier for other people? What makes it easy for other people? And asking those questions. Approach yourself with a level of kindness. Don't assume you're bad at something. And if you're not great at something, add the word yet. I'm not great at this yet, but do I want to be? Could this be something that would be energizing if one or two things were adjusted about it? Give yourself that gift.

B (15:45)

Some of the, like, CBD strategies here too, of like, questioning things that you're like, especially with the black and white thinking you might have around many of these things that you have deficits in where you're like, well, I can never get organized. And it's like, well, can I think of any instances in my life where I was organized and like, how did that happen? It's like, well, okay, on smaller scales, yes, sure. There's been places where I've been really organized and so like, okay, so how can I move more in the direction of having smaller scale things rather than having to focus on this macro organization that I'm not great at and maybe I need to learn a few new things about.

C (16:18)

Yeah, and I like thinking about it also from the lens of saboteurs. Right. I know that's a really big, strong word, but I use the example of my inner justice warrior. That justice warrior piece is so common with folks who have adhd. Right. You have These scenarios in which something feels unequal, inequitable, something has been. Someone has been victimized, and you feel like it is your duty to jump in and address that. Sometimes that can get me in trouble. So I like to pause and again move myself to the balcony and ask the question. I do this exercise a lot with my coaching clients. I ask the question, what are you not seeing? What are the explicit and implicit agreements? What are the assumptions and agreements or societal rules that you are applying here? Are those consistent rules for everybody? So just move from the place of assessing or placing judgment to a place of asking a question, and what is the question to be asked, and how can you find that answer?

B (17:07)

This sounds like a very mindful practice as well, because, yeah, it's like taking that pause and not jumping into that first thought that's there.

C (17:15)

And the spirit of mindfulness, jumping into that thought, acknowledging the thought, letting it pass, and saying, okay, what about this? Can I get curious about what is a little opaque that I can, you know, pull the curtain back on and see a little bit more of? And maybe it validates my original thinking and that's okay. But being able to step away as a third party, looking in instead and saying, what am I not seeing? Or what could I be seeing better? Is, like I said, it's a great gift that you can give yourself. And as a leader, it's a necessary gift for you to give yourself in order to be effective as a team member, as a decision maker, as a partner.

B (17:49)

One question I kind of have here too is, I know in this aspect, you might be also looking to other people to kind of get some input here. And while that is. Can be very effective, I know a lot of people with narrative versions have this issue with rejection sensitivity and hearing these not explicit rejections or criticisms, but they're like, oh, you're mad at me about who I am as a person. It's like, is there techniques people can use to, like, move away from that kind of thinking?

C (18:17)

I think the rejection dysphoria is real. It is real, and it is hard. And it hits you deeply, right? I think there's no one clear silver bullet here. But for me, I like to remind myself every day of who my stakeholders are. Like, what do I owe each person in my life? And I add myself to that list. So what do I owe myself? In moments of rejection, I acknowledge that feeling and I say, are they truly rejecting me and what else might be true? And if they are rejecting me, what does this mean for me? It is hard. It is Painful. But let me look at the other list of constituents in my life that have not rejected me and validate that I'm not broken. This is not an issue of me, it's an issue of the situation. I think oftentimes we also over personalize things and that's twice as relevant for folks who are neurodivergent versus neurotypical. Right. I have not done this well becomes I am a failure. I can't wake up well in the mornings. I don't succeed at certain tasks in the morning because I am not a morning person. So trying to depersonalize yourself from the situation and say, when we make it about the work, when we make it about the situation and not about me and them, what is the data actually telling me? Depersonalizing it. And then there's also the opportunity, if you want to offer yourself that bravery, to double check, to double click, to engage with that person from that place of curiosity and say, hey, this is how I read the situation. Is that how you intended it? If not, what did you intend? Let's seek to understand, but I would say that initial fear, anxiety, hurt, that comes from that sense of, oh my God, I'm being rejected on some deep level one, depersonalize. And to remind yourself of the, of the places that validate you every single day.

B (19:53)

Because it is very easy to just get caught up in your head and run with those thoughts. And being like, that's not even realizing that, like, oh, this is so far removed from reality that I should really step back and like figure this out.

C (20:07)

I mean, our brains move a million miles a minute, which means if we make that assumption, then it's going to go a million miles down that road. And that's not necessarily going to be the healthiest thing for us. Certainly not for our mental health or our physical health or our mental clarity in the situation. And so the question is, how can you slow down? How can you stall, like time out on that thought process and redirect to something that's more productive for you because.

B (20:28)

You like get like a text message from someone, you're like, oh, I. This is. That was so terse. They're so mad at me. And then you're like, wait, this is a text message. I can't read emotion from this. Like, they just sent the letter K because they were super busy and they're like, I want to acknowledge that I got your message, but I can't respond to it now. It's completely different than being like, oh, they're mad at me and they they're just like, huh?

C (20:47)

Or the period at the end of a sentence, you're like, oh, dear God. Why is there a period? This is really serious. I've upset this person. What does that mean for me? So it's so easy to read into those moments. And sometimes, again, you just gotta step back and say, is everything okay? Yeah, everything's fine. I'm just really busy. Cool.

B (21:01)

They had their own thing where they were just dealing with someone that was being rude to them, and they're like, well, now I'm gonna pass it on, but not really mean it.

C (21:08)

Yeah, everyone's got their feels, everyone's got their emotions, and everyone's got their challenges every day.

B (21:13)

Yeah. I tried to do that to remind myself that when I'm, like, driving and I have someone cut me off, I'm like, well, maybe that happens to me. I'm like, oh, why would they do that to me? But when I do it to someone else, I'm like, oh, I didn't see them there. I feel so bad about it. And I really should have been paying more attention there. I can't believe I did that. And I'm like, okay. Can I give that same grace to the other person and be like, okay? I have responded tersely or sent ignored text messages or any kind of things that I would feel rejection over. Maybe that's happening with the same person over there, too.

C (21:45)

I think one of the gifts that we have with our ADHD is because we have this oversensitivity around some of our actions and the consequences, we can be extra aware of how our actions influence other people. So, like, you know, dealing with someone that's really frustrating at an airline because I'm stuck at the airport, my flight's been canceled, and I'm trying desperately on the phone to sort of navigate what my options are. And there are no options. The airline is saying, you have no options, and you are stuck in this new city. My initial reaction might be to, you know, rail against the world, world and be angry. But again, I recognize in that moment that this person on the other end of the phone is going to internalize what I say, and I don't know what their day is like. And so instead of being angry, I say, hey, listen, this wasn't the most helpful thing for me, but thank you so much for staying on the phone with me through all of this and helping me explore those options. That one thing, you know, on a day that they've had a million bad calls, maybe that one call makes their day just slightly Better, you know?

B (22:34)

Yeah. And that it's nice to think, like, oh, hey, maybe I did help that person have a better day. Because apparently it feels really nice to do nice things. So encourage people to try doing that more.

C (22:44)

Exactly, exactly.

B (22:46)

So I want to pull us back more into this idea of neurodivergent leadership. And one of the things that I've noticed for the leadership roles that I've been in is that oftentimes I have not wanted to be in the leadership position, but it has been either a situation where, like, I'm like, I have a vision of how this should be going and it's not going that way, so I have to step up to try and make this happen. And I imagine that that kind of idea happens for a lot of people where they're like, oh, well, no one else is doing this. And with a lot how our brains work with neurodivergence, we're like, yeah, we have this sense of, like, how things should be, and when they're not that way, we kind of be like, well, that's how we're gonna make it happen.

C (23:26)

So I work with a lot of founders, like startup founders, right. And many of them have this really compelling personal story. That's why they started their company. It's. It's a problem that they see and they want to solve. And so they build upon this idea. And people have glommed on and said, yes, that is a real problem. And you know, when you're a teeny tiny startup and you're developing your proof of concept, that's one thing you can sort of operate in the way that you want. You can design for the systems that you see the picture that you see in the future that you want. But then people start giving you money, right? You get venture funding, and now you have to scale. And that means you have to think about their vision too, and what they want for your company. And then you start hiring other leaders around you and hiring other people around you. And now it's. You owe something to every single one of them. And their visions matter too. So this idea that you have, this fixed idea of, this is the thing that we're going to do. This is how we're going to do it. And this is the outcome starts to feel a little bit more murky because there are so many other perspectives on how you get there and whether that's the right milestone or whether there are other milestones you need to hit. You know, there's new data coming in. And so I would say it's A really big challenge. It can be a really frustrating challenge. And I would say the word that comes to mind is discombobulating, right? So one of the biggest challenges we have as neurodivergent folks is regulation, self regulation. And you know, we make bad decisions and we hurt ourselves when we're dysregulated. In that spirit of there's too much stuff happening around us, there's so many more opinions, so many more objectives that we have to hit in order to meet the needs of our constituents. It can put us in that period of dysregulation. And so what I will say is if you are in that position, right, you have this new level of leadership thrust upon you and you have to figure that out. The greatest gift you can give to yourself is self awareness. So put the work in, do the somatic awareness, figure out what's happening in your body when you feel dysregulated. Come up with your regulation tools and techniques. So obviously MVR is standard. You have to have a minimum viable routine, automate the things you need. For me, for example, I know, and this is quite common for a lot of folks who have adhd. You need a vigorous exercise routine and that's part of right brain chemistry. And so those are my non negotiables there throughout the week. But I also know if I'm feeling deeply dysregulated and discombobulated, you know, it might benefit me to step out of that office environment or whatever I'm at and jump on a treadmill for 15 minutes and then go for a light walk, have a glass of water, come back. It might mean that I step away and do a two minute meditation. But the first step is understand what it feels like and what it looks like when you're dysregulated. Second piece is identify the trusted partners within that nexus and within that network that can ideate alongside you in a way that's comfortable for you. So you're going to process your inputs and create outputs as you see fit. But having a thought partner, a sounding board that you can go back and forth with and make sense and meaning of all of these different pieces and process aloud or, you know, live is really helpful. Some people are actually using generative AI for that. This is role I for a lot of my coaching clients, like I'll be their sounding board, but making sure you have that trusted voice so you can recalibrate and retriangulate around your point of view and how all of these different pieces fit in with it. And then the third piece is Ask the Questions, right? When you don't have clarity and when things don't fit within that vision, ask the question, ask the questions. Ask as many questions as you need to find that point of triangulation. The most important thing is, you know, your responsibility increases, your circle of responsibility increases, a circle of people that are counting on you increases. So it's important to understand on a day to day basis, look yourself in the mirror and say, who am I? Who do I serve and what do I owe myself and what do I owe these people?

B (26:52)

And then along with that, I'm thinking about this idea that as you become a leader and have this role, you do have to let certain things go, which is with me doing my podcast, I've let go of like editing and I have like an assistant doing stuff now. And it is amazing and I really appreciate, but it took me such a long time time to like mentally get there.

C (27:10)

It's hard. I think one of the most important questions I ask myself every day and I ask my clients is, what is your highest and best use? You can do a million things every day, but at your level, given the things that are on your plate, what is your highest and best use? And maybe parsing through your emails and organizing files isn't your highest and best use. Maybe editing your podcast isn't your highest and best use. Your time is best spent engaging directly with people, asking the questions, building the relationship of building that knowledge base and so realigning yourself to that concept of purpose. What is my purpose and what does that look like when it's lived today is a great way to center yourself around that. It is hard. Like letting go of things is hard. And that's not just for someone with adhd, that's for everyone. Sometimes you gotta let go of your Legos and let someone else take them. But then I ask the question, what possibility does that create for you, that extra bit of spaciousness there? What else is possible for you in that moment? Does that mean you start guitar lessons? Does that mean you know, you can take a meditation practice, you can go on vacation more? What does that look like for you? And how do you bring joy, cultivate joy in some of that extra space?

B (28:16)

I mean, this does come back to what we're talking about with the strength based approach too, where you're looking at what can I do that I'm good at and what can I let go of that I'm not good at? Because that's ideally what you want to do and not or at least Maybe even not from those terms. But, like, what.

C (28:30)

What.

B (28:31)

What can I let go of that I don't want to do, but that I. And how can I still do the things I want to do? Because sometimes that's not always aligned completely with strengths and weaknesses.

C (28:39)

Yeah. And you know what? Maybe it's not even just fully letting go. It's where might I apply some scaffolding, some additional support, where might I invite some support in or some tools in to automate or take on components of things that either I'm not great at or honestly, it's just not a good use of my time. Like, it's cheaper. When I think about what an hour of my time is worth, is way cheaper for someone else at a cheaper rate to be able to take that work on. Even if. Love it, even if I'm great at it, it's not necessarily aligned with my highest and best use.

B (29:06)

Today we had a neighborhood garage sale just a couple weeks ago, and I was just thinking about that when I was, like, standing outside with this, the stuff we were, like, trying to get rid of and sell, and I'm like, I've made $15 in the last three hours selling things here. This does not feel like the best use of my time. Really, what I want to do is get rid of this stuff. And so, you know, like, you know, like a little while later, my wife came by, we discussed, and they were like, you know what?

C (29:29)

What?

B (29:29)

Everything else is free. And by the end of the weekend, it was all gone. And that was the biggest goal. And I'm like, you know, that was so much better for my use of time than trying to be like, well, I could make a little bit more money this way.

C (29:41)

I mean, I have this conversation with my mom all the time. You know, she's trying to clear out some of the house, and she's just collected things for the past 50 years from traveling around the world. And, you know, quite frankly, nobody on Facebook, marketplace, or at a garage sale is going to buy your mother of pearl room dividers from Hong Kong from the 80s. Like, it's just not going to go. It's a. It's such an interesting piece, but that's not at your audience. And the time it's going to take to go back and forth and negotiate with people over five bucks is not worth your time. Just drop it off at Goodwill and hope that the next person who has it enjoys it for what it is.

B (30:14)

Being like, okay, how can I just let go of this? And I always find that the funniest Thing with, like doing garage sales and being out of the windows, where it's like the emotional attachment people have for these objects, where I'm like, yeah, but I don't have that attachment to it. So that changes its worth quite a bit.

C (30:27)

For me, the best way to assess that is to have someone in your life that has no emotional attachment to any of your things. Come and just be ruthless with you. Like this thing that you have attachment to. Help me understand that attachment. Like, actually, no, that's. That's fairly worthless. Just get rid of it. I love inviting my sister over and I love doing this for other people because it's just so much easier to evaluate something when you can separate that emotion away or when you have someone else who's asking that question for you.

B (30:49)

There are a lot of strengths that we can get from neurodivergence and being in leadership positions. There are a lot of difficulties that come along with it too. Maybe we could talk a little bit about that and maybe how we can move past some of those.

C (31:03)

Yeah. So one of the things I like to explore with clients is what is your information processing style? And so by that, I mean, how quickly do you process information? I have some clients who actually like to digest quite a bit of information beforehand and think through it and ideate and whiteboard and, you know, have that unstructured time to play in the data before they come in and make decisions. And I have others that are like, boom, boom, boom. I process information really quickly and this is how I want to move forward. Also, like influences things like conflict resolution. So, you know, there are some folks that in conflict, they can process that information quickly, address, live, and move forward. I have a lot of clients where, because from an emotional perspective, oftentimes they shut down in heightened emotional situations. If someone is raised conflict, raising their voice, something like that, it's not the best time for them to actually address that conflict. So again, getting really curious about your style. How do you process information? How do you prefer to resolve conflict? Are you a quick thinker? Do you require unstructured brainstorming time before you make a decision? Do you require perfect data before you make a decision? What data do you value? What are the things that you normally look past? Getting to know yourself is always the first, first part, and then negotiating your ways of working with your team. And so again, this is. This is as simple as saying, team, you know, before we make decisions the night before, if you have something, I need that information packet the night before. So the night before or the week before So I have time to digest and play with it and then we can come back and we can ask questions in the meeting and then make the decision of the meeting. But discussing the data in the meeting and then making the decision there, it's just not going to work for me. It's not going to work for my brain. And I think we can do better in a different matter. So that's the advocate, get to know yourself and then advocate for your needs. I have other clients and again, they need that unstructured brainstorming time. And so it's asking for that in the meeting. It's saying, hey, sometimes I'm able to get deeper in if I can ask those questions, if we can whiteboard something out and sort of zigzag between ideas and then figure out the best solution together. So I would like to make sure that we carve out time and we don't move too far past the options, the option identification part of this whole thing. And we can sort of co create or collaborate on that piece. I have a lot of clients who are in the engineering and product space and that's something that they need. Is that like time to brainstorm in a team environment and solutions solution together? That's something that's really helpful for them. So again, just knowing your work style, one of the things that leadership teams in general need to do a better job of is creating a leadership charter. And by that I mean coming together and aligning a couple times a year, what your ways of working are, how do we make decisions? Is it consensus based? Is it not? Hey, each of us has different needs in terms of how we process information to be helpful for everyone. We will share materials X days in advance. We need X number of us to make that decision. Also talking about, hey, when I'm dysregulated, these are the qualities that are going to show up and I might sound irritated or I might look this way and this is what I need from you and inviting that perspective from the other person. What are your needs when you are stressed, when you are dysregulated, how does that show up and what does that look like? Big fan of assessments, Hogan assessments in particular because it kind of shows who you are when you're regulated and when you're disregulated and how your motivations and your values influence that. But as a leader, I think think it is really, it's, it's three times more important for you to know these things about yourself and communicate these things about yourself to your partners on the leadership Team and to the teams that report up into you so that you can work as effectively as possible in that space.

B (34:31)

This idea of making sure that being proactive about doing this kind of information seems so intuitive. Like when I like think about it like, oh, that of course that makes sense. But I know most people like just kind of skim past that kind of idea. We're like, oh yeah, we'll just feel things out. But when you're feeling things out, you kind of just. It's so easy to just we're doing things the way we're doing things because that's how we're doing things.

C (34:53)

Yeah. And I mean, you know, even something as simple as the time of a meeting, guys like I don't function well that early in the morning. If you need me at my prime, I can. Flexibility is always necessary, particularly we're in multiple time zones. I can flex to the evenings, I can do other things, but I'm not great that early in the morning. So if you need to have the decision making meeting that morning, that's fine. These are the things I need in advance of that or I need some time before with X person to be able to get the information I need so I can be effective there. Or let's move the meeting by two hours. So being able to again, just know yourself and advocate for yourself. And honestly these things probably work for more than just you. I think oftentimes it's on the neurodivergent person to advocate for themselves. But in doing so, the strategies and the tools that they're asking to implement actually help a whole bunch of people. We're moving to a place of just acknowledging cognitive diversity. Whether we pathologized and you are officially, you officially have ADHD or not, we're acknowledging that the way in which we all process information looks a little bit different. And so we're creating the conditions to drive forward a conversation about this so people can share what they need 100% there.

B (36:00)

And yeah, this like heard this concept of like universal design and how it like benefits everyone when you have these things that, when you're designing for people that have more specific needs, everyone kind of benefits because well. Oh yeah. Making it so that it's easy for everyone to get the serial makes it better for everyone.

C (36:19)

Exactly. Influenza's office design as well. Right. We know what overstimulating environments look like. And creating calmer spaces even within the context of a very well, like overly designed or stimulating office environment can benefit that everyone having that quiet space to go to neutral colors Neutral palette. Less noise can be beneficial for a lot of folks.

B (36:40)

Yeah. Also the importance of, like, self ad. Being a self advocate and knowing with a lot of neurodivergent people being people pleasers, being like, hey, you need to kind of step away from that role of trying to be saying like, hey, you like, being like, hey, I'm just cool. Anything you want to do is fine. Like, no, I do have specific needs and. Or at least I work better in certain ways. And so let's. Maybe that's going to work for everyone.

C (37:06)

Yeah. And I think there's an important note as well. If you are a neurodivergent leader. Right. Is you have a voice and you have a seat at the table. And so sometimes it's really difficult to advocate for yourself because you're a people pleaser, but know that you're actually advocating for the community. There's a whole bunch of people around you, statistically speaking, that are also neurodivergent. And so in advocating and then starting these conversations, you're not just representing your needs, you're probably representing a whole group of people who will benefit from the changes you're pushing forward. And so sometimes that sense of it's not just self advocacy, it's community advocacy is helpful in giving you that nudge and that courage to move forward.

B (37:40)

Yeah, I mean, I can absolutely see that because I know when I first started doing interviews for this podcast, I get, like, people that would, like, want to come on, and I'm like, I'm not sure I want to share these ideas. Thinking about this. Well, I don't want to be spreading these bad ideas to the community. Made it a lot easier to just. Just preemptively like, hey, thanks for reaching out, but you don't align with the podcast. Well, I'm going to be going with someone else. Thanks for. Thanks, but no thanks.

C (38:09)

Exactly. And at the end of the day, everyone has a platform, everyone has a brand. And it's acknowledging through your actions and your words every day you are pushing forward with that brand. You're establishing and re establishing that platform. And so what do you stand for?

B (38:23)

All right, so I was wondering if you had any final thoughts you wanted to leave the audience with.

C (38:27)

I think this is going to be relevant for everyone and not just folks who are navigating adhd. But the greatest definition of happiness I've ever read is that it sits at the intersection of peacefulness and productivity. And I think especially us folks who have adhd, we're so focused on how to be productive right. Every waking second of every day we're thinking like, how do we add value? How do we do this better? How do we get this done? But I think peacefulness is a really important concept as well. And so taking stock of some of these principles, getting to know yourself, getting curious about yourself, especially at a leadership level, to cultivate that sense of peacefulness is what's going to sustain you in the long run. That, combined with that productivity is where the real chase is. And so that's my hope for, for everyone and for this community is that you find that all right.

B (39:11)

And if people want to find out more about you and what you do, where should they go?

C (39:15)

Sure, it's www.iksana.com It's I K S A N A.

B (39:21)

All right, I'll keep that in the show notes so people can get to that real easily. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all this. I really appreciate it.

C (39:28)

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

B (39:34)

Thanks again Farida for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Before you go though, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips. 1. Try creating a minimum viable routine. Your baseline routine that consists of the bare minimum you need in place to function function. The point of a minimum viable routine is to take those non negotiables and lock them in either with automation, outsourcing or just simple systems. That way, when ADHD throws you a curveball, you still have the essentials covered. 2. Instead of only measuring productivity by what gets checked off on a to do list, try looking at how you feel after the activities track when you walk away from a meeting or task feeling energized and when you feel drained. Use these to determine what's the best use of your time and your energy for the day. 3. Rejection sensitivity hits hard for many folks with ADHD. A short email reply or a period at the end of a text or even a coworker sounding rushed can feel like a personal rejection, even if it's not meant that way. Rija's advice here is to deliberately separate yourself from the situation and try and depersonalize that feedback. This reframing can help shift from identity based thinking like I'm the problem to a more situation based thinking where this may be tough, but it's fixable. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over@hackingyouradhd.com contact and if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes page@hackingyouradhd.com 243 and if you'd like even more Hacking youg ADHD, be sure to sign up for my newsletter any and all distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions of the week, be they what I'm reading, what I'm playing, or what I'm watching. I also try to give a few bits of actionable advice in each newsletter Newsletter, although your mileage is probably going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com newsletter to sign up. I also want to make sure you know about the Hacking your ADHD Patreon that you can find@hackingyouradhd.com Patreon it's a pay what you want model, meaning that every level of the Patreon receive all the same stuff and give you access to the Hacking your ADHD discord. So if that's something you want to check out for either the Discord or the Patreon, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com Patreon and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, which you can find@YouTube.com hackingyouradhd and finally, if you'd like another way to support the show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them. Just click the Share button on your podcast player. And now for your moment of dad What's a dad's favorite thing to make for breakfast? Puncakes.

C (42:16)

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D (42:35)

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