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- [00:01]
A
This is the new Weight Watchers. It works for members like JoJo, who's learning simple, healthy habits, Sharia, who's making progress with meds, and Kim, who still gets to eat what she loves. For over 60 years, we've helped millions of members find what works for them. Now it's your turn. Watch your life open up. Watch your story shift. Watch what you're capable of. Watch it work. Get started today@weightwatchers.com support is available 24. 7 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help because a great trip starts with the right support.
- [00:48]
B
Welcome to Hacking youg adhd. I'm your host, William Curb, and I have adhd. On this podcast, I dig into the tools, tactics and best practices to help you work with your ADHD brain. Hey, team. Today I'm talking talking with Erica Levine, a special education professional with a clinical background in occupational therapy. Erica has made it her mission to simplify the legal and procedural hurdles that keep parents from getting their kids the support they're legally entitled to, drawing from her deep well of lived experience as both a professional and a parent of neurodivergent children. In this episode, we get into the nitty gritty of advocating for a child who isn't failing but certainly isn't thriving. We dive into the legal weight. These documents carry the differences between an IEP and a 504 and how we can walk into those meetings with six other professionals without feeling like we're the one being sent to the principal's office. Erica also shares some of her personal history about her own mother's advocacy and why she created my IEP Hero to help parents navigate the system. If you'd like to follow along on the Show Notes page, you can find that@hackingyouradhd.com 275 all right, keep on listening to find out how to navigate the educational jargon without a law degree.
- [02:08]
C
All right, well, it's really great to have you here. There's a lot going on here that people don't have a great understanding of. And I guess really a first place to start is like, what is an iep? Because people are going to be like, that's kind of a weird term.
- [02:21]
A
Sure. Okay, so an IEP is basically a specific, tailored individualized education plan for kids K through 12. Typically, they touch on this child's learning needs, their specific goals, if they're academic, if they're behavioral, specific supports and implementation that will be utilized by teachers to help facilitate the most natural learning environment for A student with special needs. It's progress monitored. There's benchmarks, there's goals, and it is created by a team. So this is a team of special educators, general educators, paraprofessionals, so like ot, pt, speech and language psychologists, and also parents as well. So. And the schools need to legally adhere to this. This is a legal binding document that needs to be followed very strictly. It needs to be explicit to the certain child. So it's not like a globalized, okay, this child is diagnosed with adhd. Here are specific goals for this individual child.
- [03:41]
C
Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense because we all know, like, everyone's diagnosis comes with their own quirks and what's hard and what's not. And so, yeah, having a generalized like, oh, this is what you do for ADHD never would work in a broader sense.
- [03:54]
A
Right.
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C
And you also, like, address something else that I had been thinking about, which was, you know, like, why don't. We're just emailing with, like, the teacher and getting things set up. It's like, okay, this makes it, like, legally binding. This is what has to happen. And it's documented. So one thing that I just came up in my head too, is that people also have heard of, like, the 504 plans. And how is that different from an IEP?
- [04:15]
A
So a 504 plan is more tailored to behavioral needs and accommodations. So this child may be labeled other health impaired or adhd, and they need just specific accommodations, like longer test time, being able to get up and move freely about the classroom, having instructions read to them, having a smaller setting during testing. More along those lines.
- [04:45]
C
Yeah, makes sense. Yeah. That you need to have kind of like the separation. Like, this is what this is doing. This is what that's doing. And I imagine a lot of kids have both, correct?
- [04:53]
A
Yes, this is very true.
- [04:56]
C
So I'm sure one thing that a lot of people are wondering too is like, oh, this seems like a great thing, but I don't even know what to ask for. What are, like, some reasonable accommodations someone might be looking for.
- [05:05]
A
Okay, so if we're saying the child has adhd, this child has been tested already. This child has gone through the whole formalized testing, and then they've been diagnosed by either developmental pediatrician or a psychologist. So that would be the first step to have them evaluated. Get the formalized testing, and then you meet with the IEP team. And this consists of, like I said prior, the school psychologist and outside psychologist, parent advocate teachers, both general and special ed teachers. If it's a Related service needs, speech, OT and PT would also be involved. And for a child with adhd, accommodations may look like extended test times, smaller groups, having instructions read aloud, being able to move around the classroom freely, access to fidgets, those type of things.
- [06:08]
C
Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me because. Yeah, you don't want to just leave this up to the individual teacher because some of them have more understanding of how the kids work and others don't.
- [06:18]
A
Sure. So I guess the first step would be to reach out to the classroom teacher and have a meeting with them to address the needs. And then going forward would be testing. And then after testing, the IEP team would meet and proper accommodations would be created.
- [06:37]
C
Yeah, that sounds great. Because it's. My kids have their IEPs and it's. It is like a very weird situation when you're going into that assessment and being like, oh, what do they need? And you're like, immediately think these things would help them. But I don't know what's reasonable to ask and what is not.
- [06:53]
A
Well, anything that you suspect to be reasonable is reasonable to ask. So you are, you know, your child's best advocate. You know your child the best. You are the professional on your own child. So really, whatever you feel is important to implement, that's what you ask for. Most parents don't know that they can request these things.
- [07:16]
C
Yeah. It is great to also help the teacher involved because were not present in the classroom to see how the kid is reacting in the classroom.
- [07:23]
A
Sure. Yeah. Behaviors at home can be very, very different than what is going on in school.
- [07:29]
C
Sometimes during, like para teacher conferences, I'll be talking with the teachers and they're like, oh, yeah, they're, you know, they're doing this, all this helpful stuff in the class. I'm like, and you're not doing that at home.
- [07:37]
B
Why?
- [07:38]
A
I know. Yes. They tend to be, you know, on better behavior in classrooms. I know for my daughter, she's an expert at masking things and she holds it together. She's a rubber band child in school. She comes home and the wheels fall off. She's like licking the wall. She's climbing the wall. She's eating things that should not be eaten, sticking things in places that they should not go. So, yeah, so oftentimes these things get overlooked. They're like, nothing is impeding this child's learning. They're fine.
- [08:10]
C
Well, and I think masking is a great jumping off point here too, because should we be asking for things that will let the kid mask less at school?
- [08:20]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, children show their stress in different ways. Right. So I know for a specific child, when they start telling me their stomach hurts, their head hurts, their fingernail hurts, I know that they are starting to feel stressed. Whether it be from mom didn't pack the right lunch to this test is really overwhelming. I don't know how to handle it. So teachers have to be. They have to have some type of rapport with these children and understand that, you know, the everyday ailment or these weird, outlandish things are not necessarily what's going on. It's. They're masking it. They're trying to hold it together. And this is. This is their way of saying, I'm in trouble right now. I need help.
- [09:08]
C
Yeah. Because I do know there's a lot of. It can be very hard to ask for additional accommodations for kids that are seeming to be doing great.
- [09:15]
A
So the system is set up for failure. So let's let this child just float by and, you know, maybe not even retain anything that they're being presented with. But they're. They're holding it together in school, and they're coming home or having breaks from school, and there is no retention. They are regressed completely. They cannot remember a thing. They really do not know what is being taught to them. So it's tricky. It's tricky, for sure.
- [09:46]
C
Yeah. Because I've definitely heard from lots of other parents and experienced myself just the kid getting off of school and then just meltdown immediately. Maybe not meltdown, but at least just acting out in ways that we. You just normally don't see.
- [10:00]
A
Sure. It's like the overstimulation, and then they, you know, keeping it together for however many hours they're in school, and then they come home and they're just so overstimulated, they don't know what to do and how to calm themselves or how to properly advocate for themselves. So it's quite tricky, for sure. And oftentimes these behaviors are looked at negatively, and it's. The child's being bad, they're acting out there. They're disrespectful, they're unruly. But this is like, behaviors that are out of their control, which is. It's difficult and hard. Hard for a parent, hard for an
- [10:37]
C
educator, for sure, and hard for the kid because they. They just don't. Like, you know, when you, like, ask them, like, why are you doing this? I was like, I don't know.
- [10:46]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [10:47]
C
So moving this to, like, the. My IEP hero. What does that do?
- [10:52]
A
So it's a parent facing tool. This is to help parents navigate the system. The system is filled with all these big crazy words that nobody really knows. The educational jargon that an average person does not understand. So again, saying going into a meeting and not understanding what to ask for, or knowing their rights, or knowing what they are entitled to. So this may be for a younger parent or a parent, a highly educated parent, the spectrum is so broad, but it's just to help navigate the ins and outs and the complexities of knowing what your child is legally entitled to. Parents are the experts on their children. They know and going into these meetings, it could be very intimidating. You're sitting across, you know, the table, six professionals and you have not an idea, not a clue of what to ask or how to properly ask or how to advocate for your child. So my IEP hero is was created for parents.
- [12:03]
D
WSECU isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State five years running. Why? Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do. From the Olympic mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being. Because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.
- [12:37]
C
Great. Yeah, because I know it's also schools don't necessarily want to be doing a lot of the IEP stuff just because it costs money. And so if they, they don't want to be unnecessarily using those funds for people that don't need it. But that also, that's a barrier to
- [12:52]
A
entry, then it's also unfortunate that a lot of schools will not go the extra step to make sure that that child gets what they need. You know, it all comes down to the dollars and cents and the manpower. And you know, you can't as a parent going into a meeting and being denied something because they don't have enough staff or there's not enough funding or they're not trained in that program, you are legally entitled to whatever it is that your child needs. If it's, you know, being trained in a specific reading program or a specific math program, but they don't have the staff for it, they have to go out and find the staff to accommodate this child. And parents just don't know that. And when they're met with a no, that's it. It's a no.
- [13:41]
C
Yeah. So I could see how having that like this tool on their side being like, yeah, you have, you don't know what you don't know. So you need to have this education because you don't necessarily have an advocate, like you're advocating for your child, but you don't have an advocate for yourself about what you need.
- [13:56]
A
Right, right. And you know, advocates can be very costly. Some families cannot access this. Some families don't even know that an advocate exists. So this is a tool to help make this more attainable. This is, like I said, it's, it's for, for the parents to make sure that your child is getting what they are legally entitled to.
- [14:18]
C
Yeah. And I know a lot. Yeah, parents don't know about that. Yeah, you can get these IEPs because I know of, talked to other parents and been like, oh yeah, I'm going to go to this IEP meeting thing. And they're like, what's that? And I'm like, how do you not know about this? This is so important to know about for sure. But yeah, but then again, like, yeah, no one is educating people about this because there's not like a specific person that's going to be in your life to educate you about this, I should
- [14:40]
A
say, unless you've gone to school for it. Right.
- [14:43]
C
So, yeah, it's just one of those things that's very easy to miss because, you know, that's what's kind of missing there. So when we're thinking about trying to find these ways to better support our kids, what are some outside of the box accommodations? I'm like, I don't know if that's really what we're looking for here.
- [15:06]
A
The idea is not out of the box things. These could be very basic accommodations. So for example, I, I have a child who is twice gifted. So they're on one end of the spectrum super, super intelligent, but present with another disability. Very, very, very capable. Grades are great, but executive functioning is problematic. So their disability is not impeding their learning. There's not a problem in school, but in globalized, in the world, there's a problem. So you can go into a meeting, have your child evaluated from top to bottom and them not being classified to be a student to receive an iep. So they are denied services because they are presenting perfectly fine in school. There's nothing going on in school. But in real life, outside of school, you know, this child is falling apart. So when I went into this meeting, child was declined services. I requested for an individualized educational evaluation. So this is the parent Goes out and gets further testing by an outside psychologist and they do, you know, full, full testing from IQ to executive functioning to memory to whatever. You know, they get a parent history, they get a teacher history, they get any related service providers input and they run this test. It's a lot more thorough and that can oftentimes grant accommodations for your, your child. So being met with a no, most parents will just stop there because they don't know that they can put push further or have the school provide the funds to pay for this, this outside evaluation. So after having the outside evaluation, now we see, yes, there are these certain things that were not tested in by the school, but tested from an outside individual that click the boxes that yes, this child very well deserves an IEP or a 504.
- [17:35]
C
My daughter's very bright. And I was just always like, yeah, she's never qualifies for these things because they're like, yeah, she is academically very gifted. And so. And I'm like, yeah, but she's struggling in certain areas with this with like the anxiety surrounding it. I want to give her the best chance to not burn out in school.
- [17:52]
A
Sure. And not be riddled with anxiety for, you know, it could be a change in a schedule that can set a child off. It could be, you know, an impending looming test. It could be, like I said earlier, mom didn't pack the proper snack in my lunchbox. Anything could set a child off and make them, you know, their anxieties present for sure.
- [18:17]
C
One of the, I guess the things is so parents will also probably experience during these two, is that getting over themselves in these meetings where they've maybe they didn't have these accommodations or even like the option to have them. And so it's kind of this either, you know, like they're like, I don't know, I should ask for this or even like, do they even need this? Because I.
- [18:37]
A
So my IEP hero started from this, from this exact experience. So it's when I was a little girl in, in grade school, I was struggling. I presented fine. I could read. It took a longer time for me to read. But by second grade I was reading and I was, you know, meeting all the boxes. But we would go off on a break, a summer break or a spring break, and I would come back and I knew nothing, nothing that was taught to me a week before I could not remember it, I could not apply, was horrible. And the struggles at home were so, so significant. And my mother not being an American citizen, it was. And not knowing the system but she knew there was something going on. I was okay in school, you know, grades were okay, passing. But she knew that if I did not get the help that I needed, it would impede my learning for sure and affect me for the rest of my life. So my mother was the one who advocated for me tooth and nail, did everything she could. She read every educational book under the sun to make sure that I got what I needed. And then, you know, fast forward a million years, here I am with four kids of my own, each with different neurodiversities and learning styles, just being on the other side of the table, not being an educator, you know, taking that hat off, just seeing how, wow, you can really just let the kids just slip under the radar. We're not going to push because they're, they're just so. They're okay, they're doing what they need to do. They're not acting out, their grades are okay, but are they really learning anything?
- [20:26]
C
Yeah. And it's. Can we maybe help them thrive?
- [20:30]
A
Exactly. The system is set up for failure.
- [20:32]
C
All right, well, we're kind of coming
- [20:34]
B
up on time here, so I was
- [20:35]
C
wondering if there's any final thoughts you
- [20:36]
B
wanted to leave the audience with.
- [20:38]
A
Thank you. Thank you for your time. And I hope that you will find my IEP hero as beneficial as we do.
- [20:48]
C
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like such a great system for parents that, you know, want to help their kids but just don't know how.
- [20:53]
A
Yes. Thank you.
- [20:57]
B
Thanks again to Erica for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end.
- [21:01]
C
Before you go though, let's do a
- [21:03]
B
quick rundown of today's top tips. 1. Treat the IEP as a legal mandate and understand that it is legally binding and schools must adhere to it strictly. It is not a set of globalized suggestions, but a tailored plan for a specific child. Two, remember that the IEP team should include more than just teachers. It includes specialists like OTs, PTs, speech language pathologists and psychologists who can really help address the child's needs. Three, if a school denies services because the child is fine academically, parents can request an individualized educational evaluation from an outside psychologist, which the school may be required to fund. Remember, we want to focus on our children thriving, not just passing by through school. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over@hackingyouradhd.com if you'd like to read links or read this episode's transcript. You can go to the show notes page@hackingyouradhd.com 275 and if you'd like even more Hacking youg ADHD, be sure to sign up for my newsletter, any and all distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions of the week, be they what I'm reading, what I'm playing, or what I'm watching, and everything in between. I also try to give out a few bits of actual advice in each newsletter, although your mileage is going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com newsletter to sign up. And be sure to check out our Patreon, which you can find@hackingyouradhd.com Patreon. It's a pay what you want model, meaning that all levels of Patreon receive the same stuff. You can pay $0 or $2 or $10 and it's all the same. In it, I've been doing some behind the scenes work and as always, early access to episodes. There's also the Hacking Radhd Discord, which you can get access to from hackingyouradhd.com discord and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, which you can find@YouTube.com hackingyouradhd and finally, if you'd like another way to support the show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them. Just click the Share button on your podcast player. And now for your moment of dad People who take care of chickens are chicken tenders.
- [23:25]
E
Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today,
- [24:07]
D
Wsecu isn't just one of Washington's best credit unions. We're a Forbes Best in State. Five years running.
- [24:14]
A
Why?
- [24:14]
D
Because we put you first. Lower fees, early paydays, financial guidance and service second to none. As a member owned cooperative, we love Washington as much as you do, from the Olympic Mountains to the rolling Palouse. Join us and discover how much we care about your financial well being because what we really do best is invest in you. Visit wsecu.org today to learn more. Washington let's credit union.