Dr. Judy Ho (2:39)

Well, it just means that I'm certified in different specialty areas across three separate boards. Board certification in psychology is not mandatory. It's an optional thing that you can do to essentially prove your expertise and more specialty areas where that might be important. So one of my specialty areas is neuropsychology. And even though you don't have to be board certified to practice neuropsychology, it's always better if you are, because one, you're protecting your clients, two, you're making sure that you're on top of the latest science, and three, it just builds trust between the people that you interact with. And when you're talking about this area of expertise and you feel like there's a base to draw from, that there's a certain standard hopefully that you're upholding.

William Curb (3:24)

Awesome.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (3:24)

Yeah, that's always kind of something I look for, is like, what gives someone like the weight behind their words? And certainly with your quite well established background there, I'm like, yeah, this is someone worth talking to and listening to about their things, especially with, in regards to adhd. So I was kind of curious, what really drew you to doing more stuff with adhd?

Dr. Judy Ho (3:43)

Well, one, I think it's just such an interesting clinical condition that's oftentimes misunderstood. And as a neuropsychologist, I naturally gravitate towards working with people who might have adhd. Adhd, because usually to get a comprehensive workup, you go to a neuropsychologist, you get cognitive testing done to make sure that your attention problems are really coming from something that stems from ADHD rather than maybe, for example, depression or anxiety or a variety of other reasons. And so one, I think it was just a natural gravitation, but two, I think that it's often misunderstood. So sometimes people who have adhd, and especially when they're young, they're getting diagnosed or they just feel different, it really affects their ability to have, have self confidence, to feel like they can affect positive change in their life. And it really affects so many different areas. And sometimes when individuals are pretty bright, they can hide that for a really long time. So they don't even show the outside world how much they're actually struggling on the inside. And then by the time they've reached adulthood, maybe they've written off certain careers or certain activities because they have these potential weaknesses in their skill sets. And yet there's a lot we can do to overcome that. But they've essentially relegated themselves into a certain, certain type of career or say these are the only hobbies I can do, but not these other ones. And then they're limiting themselves in terms of how much they could really achieve.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (5:07)

Yeah, I absolutely see that. Especially with being able to kind of mask your symptoms and then being just like, oh, this is just how everyone is. And, yes, in the long run, that's really detrimental. Even though in the short term, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm just like everyone else. I'm not causing problems. I do see that being a big piece with the problem with how ADHD is currently diagnosed is often like, who's being the most disruptive.

Dr. Judy Ho (5:27)

Right.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (5:28)

That's why, I think, partially why we see such a higher amount of people with the hyperactive diagnosis rather than the inattentive. Just because the hyperactive does tend to be a lot more disruptive.

Dr. Judy Ho (5:38)

Right, exactly. And when you think about, in the classroom, children who have more of that hyperactive, impulsive form of adhd, they're the ones that the teachers are going to really notice right away and say, oh, I got to get this kid to be seen by somebody, an educational psychologist, tell the parents what's going on. And then you have these quieter individuals who are just struggling with their inner attention. Maybe they're daydreaming more, they're looking around, but, hey, they're not being disruptive. And you got a class of 30 people to manage. So who are you going to identify first? And who ends up escaping that diagnosis when maybe they should be diagnosed so that they can get additional support? And then just, I think, also an explanation for why they might struggle with certain things. You know, I think that that's always so important. When I talk to my clients as they get older. Maybe they're a teenager or they're an adult. You know, they say, well, I've always felt different when I was a kid, but I never knew why. And that during such a crucial time for the foundation, who you are and understanding your place in the world, that can be so hard to overcome at a later age.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (6:38)

Yeah, well, especially if you build up this internal monologue about yourself of, like, I struggle with things that are simple for other people, and therefore, that's me just being kind of a bad person. Overcoming that, like, internal talk, like, and not realizing, oh, there is a reason that I struggle with these things that take executive function to do.

Dr. Judy Ho (6:57)

Yeah, exactly. And I think that oftentimes kids from a very young age will put labels on themselves, like, oh, I must be stupid. You know, I'm not smart. And most of the times that's absolutely not the case. I know so many brilliant people who have adhd, but in terms of their own internal monologue and what they tell themselves, and especially when they have a failure of some sort which all of us have, or make a mistake, you know, their first thought is, well, that's why, because I'm stupid. That's why I couldn't do this. And it's such a tragedy in some ways because I think that you end up really boxing yourself in and then you tell yourself that you can't succeed and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy over time.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (7:34)

Yeah, I mean, it always kills me so much when I hear my kids, like I'll have to correct them on something and they're like, oh, I'm stupid. Because I'm like, no, you're not stupid. Especially if it's like related to like adhd. It's like, that's not what's going on here.

Dr. Judy Ho (7:45)

I think that, that sometimes as they get older, it even affects so many other areas of their life. Not just a career achievement, but even just personal achievement of any sort. It kind of generalizes into other areas. Like they don't even think that they can achieve fitness goals, for example, even though that may have nothing to do at all with the way that their brains work. And ADHD or just in relationships. They'll have more problems in their relationships. And I think part of it is just because again, when you're somewhat inattentive. You know, the biggest complaint that I get from spouses and partners of people with ADHD is, well, I just feel like this person's never listening to me and maybe they don't care and they're even hiding their ADHD from their partner. Or maybe they don't even know that it's adhd and then it's causing all this relationship conflict and they're having difficulty having meaningful relationships when they really should be able to.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (8:33)

Personally, I've had this thing where especially when I'm driving and my wife will start talking to me, I'm paying attention to something else. And then halfway through her story I'll just come into stoplight or something and be like, well, no, she's been talking and I don't even know when she started.

Dr. Judy Ho (8:47)

Oh my gosh.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (8:49)

And it's fortunately I've been able to be like, hey, I wasn't listening. Can you start over so that I can actually pay attention to what you're saying and especially reframing it, like I want to hear what you're saying. I just wasn't paying attention and I'LL try better next time.

Dr. Judy Ho (9:02)

Yeah, that's such a great reframe. And also if your spouse, partner, friend, whoever you're talking to understands that, hey, you know what? This is something that I struggle with from time to time, but I'm acknowledging it. And also, like you said, the positive side of it, which is I don't want to just pretend I heard what you said. I actually want to know what you said. So can you start over so I can really understand what it is that you're talking about? I think that's so great.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (9:24)

Yeah. Because it is very easy to just be like, oh, I'll just pretend. And. But that's where you get a lot of the conflict. Just because then they're like, oh, and what do you thinking? You're like, I don't know how to respond to this anymore.

Dr. Judy Ho (9:33)

Exactly. And then I think that that causes frustration so much more when somebody is maybe in that phase of still trying to hide their adhd, because sometimes the spouse or the partner will interpret that as, oh, well, they just don't really care about me or. Or what I have to say. And it's not true. You know, people with adhd, sometimes they have a harder time switching gears, too. So maybe they are focusing on one thing and they're thinking, well, I'm going to transition right now. But you can't just expect them to make that transition. Sometimes within a couple of seconds, you know, it might take them a few minutes to into a new routine, a new task. And so I think it just helps when you understand. Okay, well, the ADHD brain works somewhat differently with different things. And if the person doesn't have adhd, they're with somebody who has adhd. It could take a little while, a little negotiation to understand each other.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (10:18)

Absolutely. Because it's just reading into things that aren't really there because the brains are just wired a little bit differently. And even when I'm, like, dealing with, you know, my kids and being like, okay, if I want to ask them to do something, I have to really get their attention first. If I just go, you know, ask a question and I don't get any responses because they probably literally didn't hear me, it never entered their brain that I was talking.

Dr. Judy Ho (10:37)

Exactly. And again, once you understand that, it helps so much more to have good communication and to not feel like it's willful. Right. Because that's also what I hear all the time from people who have ADHD is, oh, well, people in my life think that I'm just doing it on Purpose to annoy them, but it's not on purpose, you know, And I think that even that understanding can really help boost relationships and empath people and have a deeper understanding of one another.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (11:02)

Yeah, absolutely. Because it's just so hard to, without that communication piece to like move forward. Because it's, it's. Since it's such an internal condition that does seem willful if you're not aware of it.

Dr. Judy Ho (11:13)

I think that that's even more of a challenge for people who are smart, who are super capable, who are successful. Because I think from the outside, the other person might be saying, well, I don't get it, you're so great at all these other things. Or I know you're smart, so why can't you do this? Or why can't you understand that? And I think that that also creates some difficulty in. Because it's almost like a double edged sword. You're smart, you're talented, and then people just expect that it should be that way across the board. But people with ADHD often have to work very hard to achieve success because of some of the rewiring of the brain that they have to do to get certain things done. And yet the people that they're in relationships with, they may not see that struggle or those workarounds.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (11:54)

And it's funny too, because I'll do the same thing to myself with, I'm just like, why is this so hard? I can do all these other things. It's like, why is getting the trash out of my car something that I'm always struggling with? That shouldn't be an issue.

Dr. Judy Ho (12:04)

Right. And that's such a good example that there's all these complicated things that you're able to do. And then it's something that feels basic, but also in just in terms of the way that people who have adhd, the prioritizing of things, that, that really causes more cognitive impact than maybe the average person who doesn't have adhd. So it's like, well, if it's kind of a lower thing on the totem pole of priorities, that's the things that get kind of written off and put off and they're able to say, okay, this is my first priority day, so I can get this done. But then by the time they get that done, brain is already exhausted, that cognitive strength is already kind of diminished. And like the last thing you'd want to do is go and pick up a couple of pieces of trash from your car.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (12:46)

Yeah, Even today I was like looking at my calendar and being like, okay, I Have this interview at 1. I should make sure that I schedule in lunch. And then I kind of put that off. And I put that off. And then about like 20 minutes before we got on, I'm like, oh, I should eat something before I get on. And it's baffling even to myself how I can like ignore hunger cues until I really need to do that now.

Dr. Judy Ho (13:06)

Yeah, yeah. It's like, I think it's because your brain is focused on something, something, and it makes it harder to also be integrating everything else at that same time. And that's probably one of the biggest challenges as we become adults. Right. And we have increasing numbers of responsibilities and tasks to do, and then people are coming at us with more and more things to do throughout the day. And yeah, some of those basic tasks just go to the wayside when you have to manage all of those other things.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (13:31)

So one of the interesting things I saw was that you have your book Stop Self Sabotaging. And I actually recently did an episode based off the song My Own Worst Enemy because I was feeling like that is like something that, like, often people with ADHD feel like they are their own worst enemy, that they're always self sabotaging themselves.

Dr. Judy Ho (13:49)

Yeah, that's such a good point. And I think that oftentimes what we see with people who have ADHD is that there's forms of procrastination that are happening. And that I think is one of the more common forms of self sabotage is, you know, you could be so excited about an idea and you really care about this project, and yet somehow it just takes forever to get things started. And self sabotage is a universal phenomenon. It happens to everybody, not just people with adhd, but I think with people with adhd, even for themselves and their own understanding, it's so hard to have self compassion sometimes. It's hard for you to say, oh, actually maybe part of the reason why I'm self sabotaging is because of the way my brain works due to adhd. Because as adults, you want to take maybe some more responsibility. You're like, well, is that just an excuse or is that what's really going on? But, but you know, people who have adhd, they do struggle to execute tasks in an orderly fashion and efficiently. And that's just a constant struggle that they have to work through. And most people with adhd, they're, they're just trying to find different ways to be more efficient. And sometimes those experiments, maybe they don't go so well, but it's hard because your self esteem does Take a hit every time something doesn't go the way that you had planned in your head.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (15:00)

Absolutely. And I think we also have this tendency to look back with these like rose tinted glasses and be like, oh, I could have done all these things. And then I like look back and I'm like, oh yeah, that's also at that time when I like hurt my leg or something and I couldn't move around and I'm like, that might explain why I wasn't doing as much as I should those past couple of months.

Dr. Judy Ho (15:18)

Yeah, that's right. I feel like people with ADHD are often the hardest on themselves, much harder on themselves than even people around them, just because for most people they've noticed these differences from a young age and they've been trying to compensate ever since. And so, so yeah, I think that that was a really good example of how that could manifest that. A lot of times people will just say, oh my gosh, like, was that my fault? Like there's almost a questioning, almost like you're unsure and maybe half the time you should take some responsibility. But I feel like a lot of the time they feel over responsible. And that's hard because when you fill your mind with negative ideas about yourself, it's so much harder to overcome that hurdle too. So it becomes definitely a vicious like, oh yeah.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (15:58)

And it's especially with something with like rejection sensitive dysphoria where your, your brain is kind of actively looking for these things to be like, I want to, I want to make myself feel better.

Dr. Judy Ho (16:07)

Right.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (16:08)

Lack of a better way to say it. But that is often how I like in retrospect think about the RSD is being like, my brain was just trying to make me feel bad because maybe it's just that was the stimulation it wanted at the time.

Dr. Judy Ho (16:19)

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes we, we do need that. Right. And I think there's always a balance. You know, you can't constantly be productive. You know, it's also important for your brain to disengage from that fight or flight feeling and to actually be in rest and relaxation. Because actually that's how we learn best. You know, we learn the most when we're able to take our time to absorb information. If we constantly feel like everything's an emergency, then your brain is operating in that state of emergency. And in a state of emergency you're not going to be making room for novel information. It's more just about, well, what's it going to take to survive and get out of this situation? And so it becomes very basic Actually. And so I think more than anything, people with ADHD probably have to give themselves more time for self care and more time to get into that rest and relaxation state than the average person because they need that for their brains to be able to work at their best.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (17:09)

This is something I've been thinking about this week because I've been just getting the kids back into school mode and feeling extra tired and being like, I don't want to take that time for rest. And then when I do rest, it's hard. And one of the things I was specifically thinking about is often the act of resting isn't interesting enough for me. So if I'm like trying to take a nap or just like chill out, my brain doesn't want to like, I'm like, oh, I need a little extra stimulation or relaxation. It can't just be low stimulation. It needs to be with a little bit something. So I'm not really pushing too hard, but still getting something there.

Dr. Judy Ho (17:40)

Yeah, it makes sense. You know, you kind of want a little bit of that novelty, but not so much where you're getting into a super stressed out mode. One thing that I like to recommend for my clients is to try to find activities that help them to get in a state of flow. So maybe you've heard of this too, William, but that state of flow is actually something that you do that is pretty active. So a state of flow is not achievable if you're just vegging out, watching Netflix. It's more something that's active so that there's a bit of a challenge, but not so challenging. And then you feel like your skill level is pretty good, doesn't have to be the best, but you feel generally somewhat competent at this hobby or this activity. And that's how we get into a flow state. And so you can actually get into a flow state with reading, but instead of passively turning the page, it's about actively making notes in the margin or you know, doing a voice memo to yourself. And I also find that people with ADHD tend to get into flow activities a little bit better when it is multimodal. So something that's visual, but also they're hearing it. You know, there's more than one type of exposure that can help them be engaged and get into flow. So I totally hear what you're saying. Also, when I talk to my ADHD clients about practicing mindfulness, they're like, oh God, I'm not gonna just there cross legged and meditate. And I tell them, yeah, you know what? I Don't like that either. And my form of mindfulness is actually being active. So it can be a walking mindfulness where you're just trying to take in the environment around you and really being present. It could also be what I call practical mindfulness, which is doing an activity singular mindedly. So these are basic things. You can be taking a shower mindfully, you can be washing dishes mindfully, folding the laundry mindfully. But the whole point is not doing five things at once. Right. Because most people are like doing their laundry and listening to a podcast and at the same time they're doing some other thing, like thinking about their to do list for the day. And I think that those active forms of mindfulness are probably a little bit easier for people with ADHD also.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (19:31)

Yeah, I think doing that thing where the idea of like single tasking, but being very focused on that task. Because often it's when I'm like bored with a single task, it's because I'm thinking about something else and I'm doing this. I'm like just trying to get onto the next thing. But if I'm like, like, oh, I'm.

William Curb (19:44)

Folding the towels and I'm feeling how the towels feel.

Dr. Judy Ho (19:47)

Yeah.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (19:47)

Really paying attention to what I'm doing.

Dr. Judy Ho (19:49)

Exactly. And it's also so much more enjoyable. I mean, I personally find that if I can be mindful while I'm folding my laundry, it's actually a little bit easier than if I'm already thinking about, I need to rush through this so that I can do this next thing. You know, it can actually make it a lot nicer of a chore than it otherwise would be.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (20:06)

Yeah. Because when we're distracted, it's when it's the most just unenjoyable. I'm like, I'm just doing this thing till I get to the next thing.

Dr. Judy Ho (20:13)

Exactly, exactly.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (20:15)

One of the things that I've seen most talked about a lot for the effectiveness for treating ADHD through therapy is the cognitive behavioral therapy. And I kind of wanted to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that aspect.

Dr. Judy Ho (20:26)

Cognitive therapy is so great because they're concrete skills that you can learn to train your brain. And that's what I really like about it because it's really hands on and you're giving people tools that can change their life right away. So cognitive evil therapy traditionally doesn't focus so much on, you know, okay, like, let's go all the way back to your childhood to see when these patterns were established. It's much more in the here and now. Like, okay, this is the problem that you're struggling with. Let's see how we can solve it. And so I think that definitely has its place and is very effective in helping people with ADHD overcome certain difficulties. One of the things that I love showing my clients how to do is a technique to train their attention the way that you might train physically, you know, like going from walking to jogging or like, gradually lifting more and more weights. And I try to explain that, you know, your attention is actually a trainable skill. And when you have adhd, maybe you're starting at a place where that skill isn't as strong as the average person, but in the end, you can train it up and be better than you were maybe yesterday or a month ago. And this activity essentially just involves you picking a task that you have to do and then setting the timer, you know, on your phone for, let's say, 15 minutes to start. You know, make sure before you start this task that you get rid of all the distractors. So, you know, get the snack, you know, have a waters, you know, go to the restroom so that you can't, in the middle of the task, say, oh, now I gotta go do this thing. And then, you know, of course, close up anything that could be distracting, like your phone's notifications are off, etc. And then you just sit down to do this task. And then you also bring with you a piece of scratch paper and a writing utensil, and that's it. So then you start the timer, you start doing the task, and you're going to notice that, you know, pretty soon in your thought is going to wonder, and you're going to say, oh, well, maybe I need to do this other thing, or I have to go shopping later, or, oh, we need more milk. Like, whatever happens, all you're going to do is turn to that piece of paper, jot down in shorthand what that thought was. Don't spend any more time on it. Just write it down, and then go right back to the task. So you keep doing this throughout the 15 minutes, and then when the timer goes off, you can check that scratch paper next to you just to kind of look. Okay, well, this thought was nothing. That's not anything. Oh, okay. But I do have to go get more milk. So that was something that I could probably put on my to do list, because that's important. But essentially what you're going to find is that over time, you will be able to do longer and longer periods of time like this, where you're just focused on One task. And then because you have this sort of like capture technique, you're always going to be able to return to whatever random meandering you had, especially if it was important for some reason. And most of the times you're going to find that you just have all these random thoughts and they don't really actually matter. And also, over time, as you do this exercise and train your brain, you're going to find that less and less of your thoughts are going to be those that kind of don't make a difference or just trying to pull you away. And more and more your thoughts are really going to be things like, oh, this is actually an important task I have to attend to later. So I've helped my clients use this technique. It's very, very simple in theory. And if you just start with one task a day for 10, 15 minutes, the next week you can go up to 20 minutes for one task. And then the next week you can go up to 25 minutes for a task. And that's how you can strengthen your attention muscle.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (23:42)

That sounds like a great way to really get yourself to pay attention to what you're doing and then build into other skills.

Dr. Judy Ho (23:48)

Yeah, build into other skills. And I also think that this is a especially great training technique for tasks you really don't want to do, like paying bills. You're like, that's so boring. But if you can tell yourself, well, I just have to sit down and do it for 15 minutes, you know, most people can tolerate 15 minutes without too much distress. And so I think it can really help with tasks that you really don't want to do. That's a good one to use these types of techniques on. And then like you said, you can build it into other skills. So it's like, okay, well now I feel more confident that I can do something for 30 minutes at a time and not feel so much distress. And now I can maybe tackle that big project that I've been putting off for a week because now I have more confidence in my ability to focus.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (24:28)

The other thing that was also making me think about it. So the getting set up part really reminded me of how I sit down to write episodes. You know, making sure I have everything in place, having something to take notes on on the side it so that I can sit down and just focus. And then combining with that idea of like, yeah, everyone should have about 15 minutes, they can do these things. And then if that's not the case where you're like, 15 minutes would be impossible for me, then go non judgmentally. Like, well, why not? What is keeping that from happening? Is it just the thoughts or is it because I have so many distractions in place already? Like, I don't have a place I could sit down without distractions or something?

Dr. Judy Ho (24:59)

Yeah, that's such a great point. I mean, sometimes we tell ourselves things that aren't true and that's what's taking us away rather than what's really going on. And I've found that sometimes, you know, especially after Covid, in the height of COVID some of my work is from home, you know, much more than it used to be. And sometimes it is too distracting to be at home and to do this work because, you know, you're always pulled away by something like, oh, I could also be doing my laundry in between, or, you know, there's always something else. And so sometimes I will just go to a coffee shop or go to the library and say, you know, I'm just gonna do this for the next hour to two hours so that I can actually really focus. I mean, I think that focusing has become harder and harder and harder because sometimes I'll be on my laptop working on a neuropsych report, and then I'll have five emails come in and it's like popping up and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I have to stop and email them back right now. And so I think that whether you have ADHD or not, attention is a hard thing to have these days, especially with how much technology is just constantly disrupting our ability to pay attention.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (25:56)

I mean, that's one of the interesting things I see with people being like, oh, yeah, I used to be able to read so much and now I find it so hard. And I'm like, well, when you're trying to read, do you have your phone right next to you? Do you have this, like, easy out?

Dr. Judy Ho (26:06)

Yes.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (26:07)

Whenever things get boring and I'm like.

William Curb (26:09)

It is harder for me to read.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (26:10)

When I have that easy out right next to me. But if I'm sitting on a plane and I don't have anything else to do, that's really easy to read.

Dr. Judy Ho (26:16)

Oh, the best. You're so focused on the plane. Yeah. You know, when I fly, I try not to tap into the WI fi. Like sometimes if I have to work when I'm on the plane, yes, I will. But like, if I don't, it's so nice because then you just do like the in flight activities and they're, they're kind of simple, but they're kind of nice. It's a Form of mindfulness. Right. Like, like you either watch the movie or you play a game on that, the little screen, or you listen to the radio that they provide, but you're not doing like a million other things at the same time.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (26:44)

Yeah, it's one of the funny things with my kids. Like, yeah, they absolutely get screen time. But like, sometimes we'll be like, yeah, we're not going to do that right now. And then they do find something else to do. Like they may initially be like, I'm bored and I don't want to do anything and be frustrated with like how much they're being like, I just want to do Pokemon Go or whatever. And I'm like, like, okay, well we'll find something else. And they always do. One of the things I always ADHD is I'm like, yeah, I'll get bored, but I, I will get unbored real quick. I will find a way to not be bored.

Dr. Judy Ho (27:10)

Oh yeah, I know. That's like one of the superpowers of adhd, I feel like, is like you will find something that you can be engaged in. You'll be probably more motivated than the average person to do that. And of course, as you, I'm sure, know, you know, one of the superpowers also of ADHD is hyper focus. You know, and sometimes that can be utilized for like, like great good, rather than taking you away and distracting you from something that you should be doing. I mean, I've seen people again, you know, when they have adhd, when they're interested in something, I mean, they have like the most intense focus that I've ever seen. I think that that is a superpower because, you know, it's almost like they don't get tired, they just keep going.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (27:46)

Yeah, I always just try to remind people it's like, yeah, hyper focus, great for getting stuff done, but kind of a double edged sword too because you're probably drawing on your future reserves of, of mental energy. Like, I don't know if I'll like really work on something and I'll come out the other side. I'm like, no, I'm not doing anything for a week.

Dr. Judy Ho (28:00)

Exactly. You're like, now I'm burnt out for the next five days.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (28:04)

All right. I was wondering if there's anything you kind of wanted to leave the audience with or any other topics that you wanted to hit.

Dr. Judy Ho (28:10)

This has been a great conversation. I just love that you're shedding light on ADHD in so many different ways. And I think that it's always important to know that even though you may have started to think about your ADHD as a more negative thing, as maybe an area of weakness or in your skill, there's so many benefits of it too, you know, and it's really learning to work with the way that your brain works. And I've seen just so much success in the people that I've worked with who have adhd, and it started to believe in themselves and find essentially the hacks that really work for them to be able to achieve all the things that they want. And so I just love that we're having this conversation about just, you know, all the different dimensions of, of ADHD and what it's like to live with it.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (28:51)

It's all about just finding, working with your own brain rather than what you think should work.

Dr. Judy Ho (28:56)

Oh, yeah. And I think that that's the hardest thing, right, because sometimes you'll look on social media or you'll read an online article and you think, oh, well, how come this hack doesn't work for me? Or how come this skill doesn't motivate me? And it just means that your brain works differently. You know, you try them on for size and if they don't work, that's okay. Everybody's going to find their own unique toolkit. And even people without ADHD are going to encounter those kinds of challenges from time to time.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (29:18)

Absolutely. All right, if people wanted to find out more about you, your work, or your books, where would be the best place to find out more information about you?

Dr. Judy Ho (29:26)

Well, you can find me on social media, rjudyho, or you can also go to my website, drjudyho.com I have tons of free resources on there. And also if you sign up for my newsletter, then you'll get weekly free resources delivered to your inbox.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (29:39)

Awesome. Well, I'll get all that in the show notes so that people can find you real easily. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Dr. Judy Ho (29:45)

Thank you so much, Will. It was a lot of fun.

William Curb (29:53)

Thanks again to Dr. Judy Ho for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Before you go, though, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips. 1. Train your attention like a muscle. Use a simple task and set a timer for 15 minutes and gradually increase the time to strengthen focus. You can also work on capturing distracting thoughts by keeping a notepad nearby while working, jotting down distractions without letting them derail your task. Two, try use multimodal mindfulness, which involves engaging multiple senses to stay focused such as reading or taking notes, and then combining those activities with a visual or auditory element. 3. If you're procrastinating, ask yourself why and address the underlying reasons, whether it's fear, failure, or overthinking. Often procrastination is a sign that you have some need that is being unmet. Addressing that need can often help get you unstuck and get you through that procrastination. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over@hackingyouradhd.com contact if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes page@hackingyouradhd.com 197.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (31:05)

And.

William Curb (31:05)

Now for your moment of dad incorrectly. It's the only word that, once spelled.

Podcast Co-host or Interviewer (31:09)

Correctly, is still spelled incorrectly.