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Hacking Your ADHD
Songs That Stick: ADHD Tools with JP & Kat Rende
00:49:11
Hey Team! This week, I’m talking with Emmy-winning composers Kat Raio Rende and JP Rende, a husband and wife team who’ve written music for everyone from Elmo to the Jonas Brothers. But today we’re talking about their project Aidee, a collection...
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Welcome to Hacking your adhd. I'm your host William Curb and I have adhd. On this podcast I dig into the tools, tactics and best practices to help you work with your ADHD brain. Hey team. This week I'm talking with Emmy winning composers Cat Rael Rend and her husband JP Rend. They're a team who've written music for everyone from Elmo to the Jonas Brothers. But today we're Talking about their Project 80, a collection of songs designed to help kids with ADHD build everyday tools through music. I got a chance to listen through their album before the interview and it's honestly really great. Since having kids of my own, I've had the opportunity to listen to a lot of children's music and that can be hit or miss. So I was pleasantly surprised with how good the songs actually are and how quickly the message got into my head. Which leads right into what Kat and JP and I talked about in this interview. How we can use music as a tool for memory and routines, why silly songs can be powerful ADHD strategies, and how turning everyday frustrations into sticky little tunes can lower shame and raise our confidence. We also got a bit into working with our adhd, but also how to navigate working with a partner who has adhd. And we also touch on breathing exercises, dealing with shame and the parenting type of empathy and boundaries. If you'd like to follow along on the show notes page, you can find that@hackingyouradhd.com 246 alright, keep on listening to find out why nothing rhymes with orange. I'm so happy to have you guys here with me. I've had fun. I was Playing the album for my kids this morning during breakfast and my 10 year old was like, dad, this is so cringe. And then with minutes later like making her stuffies dance to the music and stuff and I was like, yeah, it's. She's like, yeah, but it's, it's infectious. And I'm like, that's kind of the point here. It gets in your head and it goes, so. But before we get into the music and stuff, can I hear a little bit about you guys and like how you got into making this kind of music?
- [03:08]
C
I'm Kat and this is JP Rendezvous. We're married, we have two kids who have adhd and we started out writing jingles. We did a lot of jingles for toilet paper. And then we ended up at Sesame street doing a lot of educational based work and doing a lot of different TV shows for kids that focus on socio emotional learning and. And our kids, when they had an issue like putting their shoes in the closet when they came home and you know, the dog ends up eating them, we were at one point we're like, take your coat, put it in the closet. And then we had songs for going and songs for slowing down. And they were just like silly songs that ended up working because they're constantly in our kids heads. So when we realized how sticky songs work, we decided to make an album about it and here we are.
- [04:03]
B
Awesome. Yeah. And I do find, I know a lot of people with ADHD just have like little songs that they're singing to themselves about things they do to whatever it is that was in their head at the time.
- [04:14]
A
It's interesting that. So Kat was late diagnosed as most women that have ADHD are. And she was once telling me when we were dating that before she leaves the house she has this mantra. Wallachey cell phone, walla key cell phone.
- [04:30]
C
It was walla key, cell phone. Awesome glasses.
- [04:32]
A
Awesome glasses, whatever. So when she said that and we started kind of exploring the album in 80, that jumped out of my mind. I'm like, wow, for you that was a tool that you were using to leave the house. So let's, you know, explore that for young children so that they have those tools at an earlier age rather than a girl that's constantly leaving her keys everywhere.
- [05:00]
C
Oh yeah. And for me, like it was important to make an album that was like not just for us bias, but in a way that is empathetic so that the parents try to understand their kids a little bit more, especially if they're not adhd, to understand that like you will be forgetting your shoes in the closet for the rest of your life. But if you have a little sticky song and it's in your head when you get in that door, you will do it more often.
- [05:30]
B
Yeah. And one of the things I wrote about early on in the show is this doorway effect, where if you walk through a doorway, you just can lose track of your thoughts because you're, like, processing this new information. The, like, I walked into a new room and, like, why am I in this room? I don't know why I even got up. And one of the strategies I had suggested at the time is just telling yourself out loud what you're going to do. And this is. Seems like a much better strategy anyways, where. Because if I'm like, getting up. Going to get a hammer. Going to get a hammer.
- [05:58]
C
Yes. And those little, like, this thing is like, it. It, like, motivates you to keep going. Right. It motivates you to continue to go where you are, not have any distractions along the way. And then when you get there and that magical threshold of a door brings you to a place where you completely forgot what's been going on for the past five minutes, you're still singing that song.
- [06:18]
A
Do you ever find yourself when you're. You're on your computer that you go click on your browser, you're like, google, Google, Google, Google. Like, you're like, okay, that's what I need to do. Google. That's. I find myself saying that out loud because, you know, you can get distracted in so many different ways.
- [06:33]
B
Even this morning, when I was, like, sitting down, well, before I sit down, I was writing some things on my whiteboard of, like, things I was going to do today. And I was, like, almost stopped at what I was going to do when I sat down. Like, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to get these things set up on my phone. I'm just gonna go do that. I'm like, I'll just write that up there anyway so that I can check it off. It took me 20 minutes to get there. And I was like, oh, yeah, I was gonna do those things. And I was like, I just sat down.
- [06:56]
C
How.
- [06:56]
B
How does it pop out of my head that fast? Cause I. But it's. We're not thinking about the distractions that could come in while we're doing the things. We're like, yeah, I'm just gonna go do that thing. Why would I. There. I need to remember something for 30 seconds. I can do that. Apparently not all the time.
- [07:12]
C
And when we were Kids. The three of us were kids. There was nothing like a cell phone or, you know, multi to purposefully try to get your attention. There's like, you know, you go on your phone to write a reminder and there are still this news story, this text message, this missed call, this, you know, other to do that is has to happen right now and that stuff never existed.
- [07:37]
B
It's like, open my phone. Oh, yeah, there was this other thing I forgot to do 10 minutes ago that I should have been doing then, and then forget what I was trying to do right now.
- [07:44]
C
Yes. And speaking of to do lists, I have listened to your podcast and not realized it when we booked it. And when it came to, when I saw the podcast, I was like, oh, my God, this is the what the timing of your day podcast. I still, on my to do list, write how many minutes it would take. And it helps me so much to be able to, like, know, okay, this activity should take 30 minutes. And now I have my own timer to, you know, say, okay, without getting distracted, I have 30 minutes to do this task and it will take that long. And like, it has changed a lot of how I live my life.
- [08:22]
B
Well, it's really funny because we both overestimate and underestimate our what Our time things are like a lot of the simple things. Hanging up a coat or something. I'll be like, I don't need to hang this up because that's going to take forever. So I'm going to throw it in the corner and then I have this pile of coats in the corner. Or unloading the dishwasher. I'm like, I don't want to unload the dishwasher now. I don't have the time to do it. I'm like, well, that actually took like seven minutes total. And that might be me overestimating it right now. It often takes almost no time at all. When I'm like, actually doing it and focused on just doing that one thing, I was like, oh, yeah, these are really easy. And then I'm like, oh, how long is it going to take me to write this episode? I'll take me like 20 minutes. Oh, no, that's a three hour process. Okay. I should have kind of realized that.
- [09:04]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:05]
A
Kat's driving places. She's like, oh, yeah, it's 10 minutes. So I can, I can, I can.
- [09:10]
C
Leave, you know, I can leave exactly 10 minutes.
- [09:12]
A
Yeah.
- [09:13]
C
Taking.
- [09:15]
A
A half hour drive without traffic.
- [09:17]
C
Yeah.
- [09:19]
A
But that's just, you know, that's, that's part of it. And that's kind of what led us to really want to create content that kind of starts, like I said, just at an earlier age than later because although I personally don't officially have adhd, I. I have anxiety issues, depression. So I. I've been in therapy for nearly my whole. There's a lot of commonalities in treatment, which is, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy, which is, you know, mindfulness. Mindfulness, that's a word that's thrown around so much. But with adhd, there is a block in that. So it's not just like, can't you just be more mindful? No, they cannot. They cannot. It's a matter of really working, working towards it and celebrating the wins and, you know, and accepting some of the losses without judgment. And that's. That's how we navigate our relationship with each other and with our children.
- [10:25]
C
I was raised when something happened that was a mistake. It was like, whoops, you know, and then we fix it, reset. I mean, we. I wasn't raised like that, but I was raised to, like, whoops. Okay, anyway, let's move on. And I found out from meeting JP that, like, most people are not raised that way. And the idea of these mounting, like, fails, of course it creates anxiety. And like JP said, like, the big thing of, like, making music for kids with ADHD is to, like, the main. Main, main goal, the true main goal is to get them early before for the. The extra. You know, the extra comorbidities happen, right? Because those things are way harder to fix than the. My. My, like, thing that I always do is whoops. You forgive yourself immediately. You make it right, and then you find a plan. So it's not going to happen next time, right? And if you can do that, I mean, if you do it, if you learn it young. There's a song that we have called Learning More Every Day, and that's what it's all about. It's like, I may not understand everything. I may make mistakes, and then when I do, whoops, do a refresh and it's a happy song. Like, it's a. That's who I am. I do this. And if you can get that early, that's like the. I think the biggest. The hardest part is all, like, the shame that is attached to that.
- [12:03]
D
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- [13:01]
B
Yeah, because shame really defines a lot of ADHD's more negative sides where it's like, yeah, you got to like get the. With like the keys. It becomes this thing like, oh yeah, I lost my keys. And then it becomes this like internalized. I can never remember my keys and that means that I can't do anything else where I might need to use my memory.
- [13:20]
C
And like the other thing that when you were talking about like, about the how long it'll take to do something or like this will only take 20 minutes. The other thing that I hope to get out of my life, my kids life, the album, the whole thing is that things may take longer when you have less spoons. Right. Like if you are in a mood where you can't do it now, you might want to save that task for a time when it actually will only take 15 minutes. Like it may not have made that for you. You know, it might not have been that at that time.
- [13:49]
B
Yeah, there's definitely. I have stuff that I've done about following your energy patterns and like you don't want. We only can do so much stuff in a day. It feels like we should be able to just push through everything and just like, oh yeah, I can work. You know, it's an eight hour work day. I should be able to do work all for full eight hours. It's like, no, that's not how your brain works at all. No, especially with adhd. But it's something that if we kind of embrace it, like, oh, I'm gonna do stuff when I can do it best that's going. I'm going to get the best results. And I'm sure that's really true with writing music.
- [14:22]
A
It's not a typical eight hour workday. You know, you can't. And, and some days I will admit you know, you're just staring at the keyboard or the computer blank and you're just like, all right, it's just not coming today, you know? You know, and that's it. And it's okay. Whereas if you're at a corporate job, you know, you don't have that luxury. And when you're in a creative space, you kind of got to know when is your best time to create. And for us, it's different. You know, years ago, I used to be a night owl. I used to do all my stuff late at night, and now I can't even stay up past 10 o'. Clock. You know, I'm more of a daytime worker, but not in the morning. Like, I have, I have my, like. My most creative hours, believe it or not, are like 11 o' clock till about 4 o'. Clock. Those and then, and then that's about it.
- [15:19]
C
And then I was just thinking, like, as like a creative person and a person who's like, job feels like play sometimes when, when we were at that point right after like grade school, high school, we went to music school. But like, when your, when you have all day to do the thing you love, you will. I mean, you can truly take like the whole day, right? You can just morning tonight, create this masterpiece. Like, everything goes exactly your way. And then once you say, okay, well, now you're, you have other projects or you have personal responsibilities, or you have kids and they need your time. And so now, like, it had to get into this very tight space. And it, you know, as my daughter and my son, but mostly my daughter, because she's starting to. She has, she's more vocal about how she feels, as I realize that she's getting pulled in so many directions all the time. All the time. Because she's 8, I realized that, like, if she could just stay in one space, she'd be the absolute best version of herself. However, we all need to, like, be pulled in directions and have these tight, tight schedules sometimes. And like, if I have to remember, if I can't remember to. If I brush my teeth and I have to have my toothbrush on the left and move it to the right when I'm done. And I'm an adult with decades of experience, how can I expect her to thrive in a short amount of time? She has to learn that too. And, you know, that's a hard thing to learn as a parent, that your kid is your, like, unrefined self for all its beauty and all its hardships.
- [17:17]
B
Yeah, it's amazing with kids, it Is funny. I have joked with a friend of mine that kids are like the ultimate productivity hack because they teach you how to really manage your time. Because, oh, I suddenly, half the day, I just could not do what I thought I could do because I need to be paying attention to them, or I. But not need. I want to be paying attention to them because that's the important part of my day.
- [17:38]
C
Right. And it's like the place where you get to play all day.
- [17:41]
B
One of the things that I'm wondering too, is, so do you have any techniques that you guys use to work together, especially with, you know, one partner being ADHD and trying to manage that schedule with this creative process and trying to actually. I mean, because there's also. I know the creative side is great, but you. There's also a business side to making sure you're communicating and getting stuff out in a timely way. And all the aspects 100%.
- [18:06]
A
So how we work together is separate. When we're working on a television show or a project that comes across, we have a brief, there's a deadline. It's not like, okay, whenever you get it done. And we're very, very cognizant of that, of hitting the deadlines. And Kat is actually way better at scheduling that stuff because she has everything down to a T. Okay. You know, so we really haven't come into any issues with meeting deadlines, thankfully. But I do except for that when.
- [18:43]
C
We forget that the project exists, and then we're like, oh, we have to do this right now. We have an hour.
- [18:49]
A
But, like, that has not happened to me. Sorry. I'm just kidding.
- [18:54]
C
It's happened to me.
- [18:56]
A
But going back to our process. So she has her own studio today. We're in mine. We're right across the hall. So we have a server. So one of us will start a song, then send it to the other, then come back for refinement. She's the singer, so she's the last person to touch it creatively. And then we'll send it out. So we have this kind of assembly line situation going on between us. And thankfully, you're just. You're using all the tools that you've learned for so long that we're able to stay in business.
- [19:29]
C
Yes. And in terms of, like, an executive function partner, and we've never talked about this. Like, JP is like, always there to be like, hey, remember, you have your doctor's appointment in 15 minutes. Or, hey, the kids are coming back. Who's going to take them? Hey, you know, you're. You're like whoever is working, the other person's making dinner, whoever is working the other person is doing the invoicing that needs to be done or things like that. But because of my systems that I have created my for example gig log has. This is, you know, when I've worked, this is who, who I have to invoice for things and JP ccs me on it. If he makes an invoice, I check it off that we have it and the two of us try to have as much fail safe as possible. Another on another side personally we have for school we have one email address that means that I'm getting stuff, he's getting stuff. Then we talk, you know, we talk about it. Whoever responds, it shows that that email is not bolded anymore. Right. If you get the email, you are responsible for responding to the email. And I highly recommend that to every set of PA parents whether ADHD or not, one family email address for school stuff and even for I mean bills and everything so that like we have a good friend who happened to miss an email and because it was only on their email address, the other parent had no idea existed. And that would have been like heartbreaking and if it was something important and that's something that has helped a lot. A lot.
- [21:16]
A
Yeah, definitely.
- [21:17]
B
Yeah. Because I, I mean it sounds like you guys have a great working relationship and a great like partnership there creating a lot of accountability that I, I know sometimes I need when I'm like doing creative work or it's just like I'm like ah, this is a deadline. But not this week.
- [21:32]
C
Yeah, right. And oh self deadlines is a whole different thing.
- [21:36]
B
Yeah, well I mean that's what I was also thinking about with the, this album that you guys just wrote. Like did you how is that, that process going with. Because I feel like that would have less of a like deadline than what was, would typically you'd have for sure.
- [21:53]
A
Yeah, it got pushed back several times because when other projects came, came, came up, you know, there's only so many hours in a day and we're like okay, we're gonna have to push 80 aside again and finish over so that. So there was a bit of compromise in finishing the project and it also wasn't as simple as the songs are. It wasn't a quick process because we really did a lot of research and spoke with a lot of people and met with our kids therapists and really wanted to make sure that we were doing a service and not a disservice with this. So as simple as they Are. There's some depth behind them and some research that we've done. So it could have taken, you know, just a couple weeks, but. But we. We took. We took a while on it.
- [22:49]
C
Yeah. We ended up. We have this board, this, like, dollar tree board that we have on our wall, and it says each of the songs, right? And it says. It was, like, concept. Right. We wanted a, like, look back. Wallachi's cell phone song. And that's called Anything Else. That's our first song. And then we, you know, we wanted a song about slowing down and chilling out. And so each of those songs had slow down, chill out, and that became Breathe. We have this. This became this. And. And so we have that. Then it's like, rough lyrics, final lyrics, rough production, final production, rough form, final form, rough production, vocals, final vocals, mix, final mix, master. And it's got all these things on it because literally, you. Where are we on this song? I don't know. You know, it. That's hard.
- [23:46]
A
Yeah, it was. It was. It was quite a process because we were juggling other projects at the same time.
- [23:52]
C
Yeah, we had, like, four shows at the time. I think we're doing Princess Power, Baby Shark, Sesame, and that's the fourth one.
- [24:00]
A
And some of Gabby's Dollhouse.
- [24:02]
C
Yeah. So we had, like, a lot of shows that were, hey, we have. We need a song from you. We need a song for you. So that was.
- [24:08]
B
It was funny. When I was, like, reading the bio, I'm like, oh, I know all these songs, these shows. And I'm like, and these are the shows that clearly come out after my kids aged out of them.
- [24:17]
A
Yes. Yeah. Well, we're finding that now, too, where, if anybody's listening, our kids are really into K pop demon hunters, so we need to get on that. I don't know if you know that one. No. But, yeah, our kids, like, we were. We were cool for, like, a nanosecond with our kids, and then they're just like, eh.
- [24:34]
C
There was, like, a moment in first grade where everybody's like. Everybody was brushing their song, brushing their teeth to our Elmo song, Brushy Brush. And they're like, I'm brushing your teeth with your toothbrush. I'm like, cool. And then. Then yesterday, Ella was like, we were writing a song for a Disney series, and Ella's like, is this for babies? I was like, actually, it is. She's like, oh, good. Okay.
- [25:01]
B
Yeah, it's very funny with how quickly they are just into new things and just.
- [25:07]
A
It's. It's wild how old are your kids.
- [25:09]
B
10 and almost eight?
- [25:11]
A
Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's. It's a lot. Ours are seven and almost nine and so very similar. And you can see the transition. And it's such a strange thing that, like, just last year they were still little, you know, still into little things. And just a year later, they're just like, yeah, I don't need to sleep with Bun Bun anymore. I don't need to do this. And I'm just like, wow. It's like, interesting.
- [25:39]
B
I'm looking at the. The playlist of this album, the 80s world, and I think we can definitely. We had talked earlier about talking about some of the themes in these songs because I think they're are a lot of really great themes to think about. One of the songs that immediately came to mind to me when I was listening was the Breathe. Because I was listening to it. I'm like, this is really anxiety inducing in the first three seconds and then it slows down. I'm like, oh, I get it.
- [26:07]
C
Ah. Because, like, when you're angry and you're like, you're. We have so many ADHD people around us of all different types. We have, like, the inattentive, we have hyperactive, we have adult kids around, and all of us are like, I need a second to breathe. I need a second to breathe. Okay, hold on. I need a second to breathe. And that's, like a really angry thing to say. And that's what you would say, right? Like, I just need a second. Right? And mostly adults, but also kids are like, I just. I can't handle this. I need a second. I need a second breathe. I need a second breathe. I need a second breathe. I need a second to breathe. I need a second to breathe. And then all of a sudden it's like this. We made the mix in atmos on purpose. I mean, with it in mind, where it all of a sudden opens for you and then you're here. And then instead of this, like, laser, like, all I can think about is my anger. And kids don't get this. They can't put it into words, but they hear that it's all in one place, right? I'm so mad. I'm so mad. And you're thinking of one thing, and then all of a sudden, once you. Once you can hook yourself onto your thinking brain, your. Instead of your. Your angry brain, as soon as you can get back into that space, then you can hear the things around you again, right? And even with anxiety, and so all of a sudden it Opens up, and now you have space. You have reverb. You have, like, this tempo that is like, telling you, hey, I want your heartbeat here, right? Breath. And then by the end of the song, it teaches you how. You listen to. You listen to your heartbeat by putting your finger on your neck. You hear it? You breathe in for two, out for four. That was an old singing technique that I would use and then later teach my own students. Breathe in for three, out for six, in for four, out for. And then this tempo slows and slows. And by the time you're done, it's like you can hear the world around you again. And you can let. And, like, we all get into that moment, but once you're down, then you can. Then you're literally calm again. Like, and you can. Your brain is not full of bees.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah, well. And it's funny, too, because I had heard about breathing techniques for such a long time in my life, and then learning at some point, like, oh, there is, like, a physiological change in your parasympathetic nervous system, like, activating when you're doing these, like, slow breathings, deep breaths, and it's like, there is a point to all of this, for sure.
- [28:29]
A
And like we talked about in the beginning of the. The commonalities of treatment with anxiety and ADHD and several others, breath work is. Is paramount in everything. And, you know, there's box breathing, there's breathing, like Kat was talking about, and just even just trying to focus on that, because with our. You know, we're talking a lot about our daughter, who's older. There is an anxiety element to her adhd, and sometimes she does get severely overwhelmed, and we have to just be like, okay, let's breathe. That's.
- [29:08]
C
Yeah.
- [29:09]
A
And it's just really, really, really important.
- [29:12]
C
We tried a new. I tried a new one last night where. And this is, like, a really, really good one for ADHD in general, because you're always hearing things, right? You're always. You're always. It's not that you're hearing. You're not hearing voices or you're just hearing, like, sounds of people talking, conversations. You're hearing the whir of the fan on the computer. Right. You're hearing the buzz of the cash registers. You're hearing. I mean, they don't exist anymore, but, like, you're hearing all the things. And what I found, if. If I take a giant breath and push all of my air out to the point where I'm struggling a little bit, once I let that go, and I did it with My daughter last night, and she immediately fell asleep was. Everything gets quiet. It's like the first time you're medicated. Like, those things get quiet and you can. You're back in the world again. It's pretty great. That one also works.
- [30:07]
B
Yeah. Because often ADHD kind of boils down to being this, like, filtering problem of I pay attention to everything all at once, or trying to. And that's why my attention so scattered. And then this mindfulness piece comes in of, oh, I'm focusing, I'm being mindful of that. I'm hearing everything but focusing on the things I want to focus on.
- [30:26]
C
And that's like that. If you can get that, you are golden, in my opinion. Another song that I am very, very passionate about because my son has a problem with. I can't remember. It's interoception or proprioception. Just it's. I'm brain farting right now. Appropriate.
- [30:44]
B
Yeah, just your body and space.
- [30:46]
C
Your body in space. Interoception. We have a song all about interoception called Jelly Belly. And it is where you're. The song's called. It's Mad, mad, mad, mad, mad, mad, mad. I'm mad, mad, mad, mad. Why do I feel so bad? I might be hungry, I may be tired, I might be frustrated. Let's wait a while and then ask your stomach, like, why am I feeling this? Like, our daughter had a problem with. She always thought she was going to vomit, but I think that she didn't realize that she was having. I'm hungry, I'm nervous, I'm frustrated. I am this, that. And my son gets hangry and he gets really mad, and he did it the other day. Because if you can say, I'm mad. And if you can say it in a funny way that immediately breaks your anger itself, right? You can. You can kind of like, you humor it a little bit. Like, man, man, man, man, man, like. And then once you get past that emergency, I'm in the red, then you can say, okay, am I hungry? Am I tired? When our kids were little and they're crying, there was a list that you say, okay, why is my newborn crying? Right? When your kids were born, you're like, okay, what is it? You know, diaper change too Overstimulated, understimulated, tired, hungry. And there was like this list, right? It's most likely a diaper change. Then the second priority is this. And so you go through all those things, and especially for ADHD parents, like, if you're stressed out, all the answers may Go out the door. So if you have. Why do I feel so bad? You have a list and you can say, okay, there was. It could have been all this stuff. I told JP that I wanted to say I have to pee, but we couldn't put that in song. But sometimes you're just mad because you don't realize that you. That you've been drinking water all day and you haven't used the facilities or the opposite.
- [32:49]
B
You've had no water in the day and you're like, I'm completely dehydrated. And it's like, oh, if I have some water, I'm going to feel at least a little bit better in a bit. I do have some trouble with my kids. Be. I'm like, oh, yeah, if you do this, you'll feel better. And they're like, I had some water. I don't feel better. I'm like, you gotta wait a little bit.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah, it's not. It's not instant, right?
- [33:11]
C
And we still do it. We still. We still go hours without drinking and then wonder why we feel so tired or mentally foggy, you know. Oh, right. I haven't drank any water literally today. But yeah, so we have that one. And then we have the proverbial don't put it down. Put it.
- [33:32]
B
Yeah, just think about that one.
- [33:34]
C
I hope, I hope. I really hope. And we've been not focus testing it, but we have been sending it out to people as this is new right now. And don't put it down. Put away has not come out. But like I said, we've been sending it around and we have heard that you go to put it down, you're like, you know, don't put it down. Put it way away, way away. Like this, like, very excited. Like, I'm doing it right, guys, I'm gonna put this down. And like you said, say what you're doing. Away, away, away. And you're taking the thing and you're gonna put it away. There we go. It is back in its place because AD Gives a high five to her future self. Like, hey, I'm gonna do this. I'm not. Like, it's not a. It's not a shame based approach. It's. And it's a good for me. Like, I did it. I, you know, like I put the thing away. So the hope is again that each of these songs are meant to be in a the moment where you're about to do something else. With the thing, with your shoes, with your moving into another room. Don't put it down. And as you're walking way away, away, away, away. And they're all, like, sticky, silly songs that hopefully will send them all the way to the place where they have to put it away.
- [35:00]
B
Yeah. And I think it's one of the things that I always think about, too, with the put it away stuff is reminding my kids, like, okay, we're gonna find a home for this thing to live, so that way we can put it away. Because if we don't have a place for it to go, where's it going to go? And they're like, well, wherever. And I'm like, and then is that going to be its home? Can't be.
- [35:18]
A
Yeah. Of course.
- [35:20]
C
Every cheese sticks wrapper's home, apparently, is on our kitchen table. Yeah.
- [35:26]
B
Oh, wrappers.
- [35:27]
C
Everywhere wrappers. I mean, that was. That was us, right?
- [35:32]
B
Yeah. And so I think this is like, a great, like, definitely intro to, like, building your toolbox of things that you can do to help, like, with your adhd. Because it's not always. Like, oftentimes when I have, like, people, like, emailing me or asking me questions, they're like, what, like, app should I get? Or I'm like, it's not apps, it's strategies. That's what you need.
- [35:52]
C
Strategies.
- [35:53]
A
100%. And that's. And that's our goal with this project and moving forward. You know, we want to work with foundations, we want to work with medical personnel and therapists to just kind of expand on this concept because we, you know, we're not claiming to be experts, but we have some knowledge in it and done some research, but there's so much further that we have to go. And kids, they really, you know, it's just coming out now where there's less of a stigma with it, but it's still there. It's still definitely there. And it may always be. I hope not. But if this is a way to kind of soften it a little bit, then. Then we've done our job.
- [36:44]
B
Yeah. Because we. We all want our kids to know how amazing they are and that, you know, even with adhd, it's not just this deficit. It's all these amazing things they can do within their. What, their brain. Working with your brain so that you can do the amazing things that you're capable of.
- [37:03]
C
Yeah. And that first. Your first episode with the building your toolbox, it, like, it was. It was. People have talked about it since, but I don't think. I don't remember it having been talked about before that, like, having your. This is what I'm really good at doing, or these are the hours that I work best, or I'm really good at this, but not this. So instead of trying to get better at this, let's make this work. Like, let's, you know, like my toothbrush thing. Like, instead of trying to say, catherine, you never remember whether you brush your teeth. You never remember whether the contact went into which eye and where to put it back. If you're, like, in middle age and you're still doing those things, it's not exactly a hard reality anymore. It does come like that, you know, but, like, it shouldn't be anywhere anymore because we know so much more about adhd. Like, you're. You always. You will always have that. Right. Routines do not exist. Right. So you might as well do it differently and not kick yourself every time. Like, and make it work for you. Like, it's so silly not to.
- [38:17]
A
Yeah.
- [38:17]
B
And just figuring out, it's often. It's very small tweaks to how we're doing things that can make it make all the difference into getting things done. The example I always come back to is I had such a hard time remembering to reline the trash can after taking the trash out. And I was like, oh, what if I just take the trash out? Reline it, and then take the trash.
- [38:37]
C
Yes. Or put a whole bunch of trash.
- [38:40]
A
You know, it's interesting is that. That is some of the conversations that we have in on our personal. In our personal life, where I'm just, you know, because to me, I would do that because I would forget, and then I would think, okay, so we're gonna just do this. And then it almost becomes obsessive with me. So I'd be to Catherine, you know, why don't you just do this? And then as soon as I suggest it, she doesn't want to do it anymore. Which is also. What is that called?
- [39:10]
C
Pda?
- [39:11]
B
Yeah.
- [39:12]
A
Yes. Yes. So I said, now. I learned not to suggest. Now I play a little, like, you should not be a line of the garbage can. You should just leave it there. You know, why don't you just leave it there? Just like, no, I'm gonna put it away. And I'm like, yes. No, I'm just. That's all a joke. But it does work. But, yeah, that. That's ultimately the goal. Because, you know, I was talking with my therapist yesterday about anxiety, and the goal is not to get rid of it. You know, the goal is the anxiety. Just. We're humans, and it's. We're. It. It exists. Our. The goal is to not write stories with it. And it's the same thing could be said with. With adhd. Like, we. It is, and it's going to exist. And to say, I wish I didn't have it. It. You know, we're good. We want to work with what we have. Give people, not just kids, just empowerment. Like, oh, I can never do this. I can never remember this. And anything that has to do with my memory, I just stink. And it's like, no. And with certain tools, people will get it, and they'll be like, okay, I'm not so bad. You know, because shame is. Is just a really, really toxic trait that a lot of people feel with. With these. So.
- [40:38]
C
Yeah. And, you know, as parents, I have a hard time when. I mean, I'm sure people. I'm sure you've talked about this with other people, but, like, I have a hard time when I'm overwhelmed. And how can you not be overwhelmed when you are ADHD and you hear everything and your kids are both love. You know, not only, like, the dopamine they get from fighting with each other, but the. The high that you get from singing at the top of your lungs or, like, playing so loud that you're screaming. Right. I. I think that. I think I probably went into singing because I loved the idea of singing, like, of being loud. Right. And that is, by the way, something that I highly recommend. Like, even if you don't, if you're not a good singer, like, if you can just yell it out. Like, my mom does karaoke, and she just feels really good about that. But. And I'm trying to get my kids into singing, but they don't. They don't. They're great at it. Both of them have, like, very good pitch. Like, they're totally on. They have a lot of feeling for it, but they're not doing. But if your kids are doing those things, how could you not be overwhelmed? And you just want to be like, get outside. Or like, you guys do this all the time or tell them what they're doing. You guys are getting excitement from yelling at each other, but you don't realize. No, but you just say, I'll be right back. I'm overstimulated. You know, you guys can go outside, go play if you want to be loud. You know, go in your room and be louder if you want to do that. You could, you know, but, like, it's really important. It's really hard to do, to stop, to refrain from saying, hey, being loud, you know, is terrible. No, because if you're singing loud and you're doing it for a reason. It's great. If you are speaking up for yourself, it's great. It's not. Attaching shame to anything is really hard to do as first time parents and especially like millennial parents, right? Being of the age where that's what they did, like go somewhere else. I don't care. We, we have a hard time, like, we, we have a hard time doing that. And I have a hard time not putting shame on the fact that I feel that way. But like, I just have to know that I'm doing the right things and I'm removing myself so that I don't create a problem. Right. And like, I just hope that with the way that we treat our kids and we, you know, we still have like, these are our. This is what I expect from you, right. I don't expect you to remember it every time, but I expect if I prompt you right, if I say, you know, what do we do every day after we, you know, we brush our teeth, what's next? Or, you know, or we have like a teeth, hair, deodorant. We have songs kind of for everything. But if we prompt, you know, we have things that we expect if they are outside of those things, there are consequences. They may not be punishment, but like, oh man, you had to go to school without your trumpet because you forgot it again or you had, you had to, you know, you missed out on something that really stinks. I'm so sorry. You know, it's not like we're not going to let them fail, but like, I do think it's important to feel like, oh man, if I had done that, it would have been so much better. But we don't. So we have boundaries, I guess, and we have like rules and stuff, but we don't have this shame. You say, okay, you know, that's, that's what happens. Not like you stink. Go to bed. At least that's the goal.
- [44:25]
B
Yeah, it's you, you want to get them to think about how we want to approach this in the future and make it all work for. Because we're like, we're all a family and we want to be happy. And what I always try and think they're trying their best. I need to try my best for them too.
- [44:41]
C
And I, you know, so easy, it's like I said, it's so easy to get into shame. The hope is you do the, you celebrate your, you celebrate your wins. Like, you know, I'm learning more every day or I'm, you Know, I'm celebrating the wins. And then if you don't. If. If my. My parent may not understand that, like, I can't change this about myself, so I gotta let them know, like, there's a song in that same song. Like, the second verse is like, sometimes people misunderstand me. I say to them, hey, can we talk? I'll tell you what you missed. Like, you missed that I actually was doing the thing you said. It's just. I was asking a clarifying question. Right. Which is that's. That's the thing that bothers, like, neurotypical parents and neurotypical teachers and friends. Like, I was asking you sometimes, like, JP will be like, you can't. You know, we're. We're not. We're not playing with sand today. Well, you didn't say play. D'oh. Like.
- [45:49]
B
Oh, I love that one.
- [45:50]
A
Yeah. Oh, gosh, man. You know, or you say no to one child and the other one does. Exactly. I'm like, do I have to literally say Ben? No. Ella? No. Like, no, no, no. But, you know, there is a processing thing that can get clouded. And, you know, it just takes patience. It's just if. If anything I've learned, as I guess, neurotypical, though I probably am not, is that it takes patience. It's patience. And that's all it is, is patience.
- [46:26]
C
We want them to, you know, speak up for themselves. Like, I want you to know that I wasn't, you know, that. That you missed something. Like, you don't. I want you to understand me as well. And that's something that's. That's hard to do, I think.
- [46:43]
B
Yeah. I was trying to remind my kids. I'm like, hey, we're all gonna have things where, you know, I apologize when I make mistakes and, you know, let them know, hey, I also have trouble with these things. Remembering to do things and getting things done in the wrong time. And it's not just you. It's everybody. All right, so I was wondering if you guys had any final thoughts you wanted to leave the audience with?
- [47:02]
C
Just, if you're a parent and your kid has adhd, empathy is such a. An important part of it. And celebrating the wins and creating these little mnemonics to help them remember specific things is always helpful because it's always better to work with Joy.
- [47:24]
A
Yeah. And please check out ad right now on YouTube. And hopefully it helps because that's. That's what we're doing it for, is to be helpful to. To parents and children.
- [47:38]
C
Yes. What's the.
- [47:40]
A
Oh, YouTube.com@80a I D E E H.
- [47:45]
C
D. Same thing on socials, right?
- [47:47]
A
And socials as well.
- [47:48]
C
Yes.
- [47:49]
B
All right, well I'm gonna encourage everyone to listen to the music because it is I knew growing up kids music was not always the best and sometimes I will have the kids put on stuff and I'm like what is this? But stuff you guys made is fantastic. So I think people really enjoy it.
- [48:04]
A
Awesome. And yeah, the album that'll be on Apple Music, Spotify anywhere.
- [48:10]
C
And thank you to you for your podcast because it really helps so much.
- [48:19]
B
Thanks again to Kat and JP for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Be sure to check out their new album 80 Nothing Rhymes with Orange on YouTube. But before you go, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips. And for today's tips, I thought we'd go through those songs on the album, each of which is a tool in itself. So starting with anything else, reminding us to check if there's anything else we need to get when we're leaving the house or leaving a room. Then we've got Mad mad Jelly Belly which asks us to check in with ourselves when we're feeling dysregulated and seeing if maybe we just need to take a second to take care of our basic needs. And we've got put it away. And I think this one's pretty clear cut with the don't put it down, put it away. Then we've got control. And while one of the symptoms of ADHD is that we tend to be quite impulsive, we still have control over our actions. When you feel those overwhelming impulses, you can just take a second, take a breath and decide if that's the thing you really want to do. And we've got learning more every day. We're a work in progress and while we're bound to make mistakes along the way, that's okay. And finally, breathe. When we're feeling overwhelmed, it's important for us to try and slow down, take a second to breathe and get ourselves re centered. And remember, if you want to hear all those songs, you can find the album on their YouTube channel link in the show notes. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over@hackingyouradhd.com contact if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript. You can go to the show notes page@hackingyouradhd.com 246 and if you'd like even more hackier ADHD, be sure to sign up for my newsletter, Any and All Distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions for the week, either what I'm reading, what I'm playing, or what I'm watching. I also try to give out a few bits of actionable advice in each newsletter, although your mileage is certainly going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.comnewsletter to sign up. You can also go check out Our patreon@hackingyouradhd.com Patreon It's a pay what you want model, meaning that all levels of Patreon will receive all the same stuff. You can pay $0 or $2 or $10 and it's all the same. In it you get access to behind the scenes stuff, the hacking, radiad, discord and early access for episodes. So if that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com Patreon and also, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, which you can find@YouTube.com hackingradyhd and finally, if you'd like another way to support the show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them. Just click the Share button on your podcast player. And now for your moment of dad. What do you call someone with no body and no nose?
- [50:59]
C
Nobody knows.