The ADHD Guide to Motivation and Follow-Through with Russ Jones

Summary

---

Hacking Your ADHD – Episode Summary

Podcast: Hacking Your ADHD
Episode: The ADHD Guide to Motivation and Follow-Through with Russ Jones (Part 2)
Host: William Curb
Guest: Russ Jones (Host of ADHD Big Brother)
Date: March 10, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, William Curb continues his discussion with Russ Jones, delving deep into strategies for motivation, follow-through, and practical hacks to help those with ADHD get unstuck. The conversation explores why traditional approaches to goal setting often fail ADHDers, how community and accountability amplify success, and actionable techniques for managing executive dysfunction. Russ and William share personal stories, habits, and humorous moments, creating an encouraging and relatable conversation for listeners struggling with motivation and consistency.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of ADHD Goal Forgetfulness

• Expectation vs. Reality: Both William and Russ reflect on how easy it is for people with ADHD to forget even personally meaningful goals, highlighting the fallacy of assuming an idea will “stick forever.”
• Externalize Your Goals: Relying on reminders and external systems is key.

  "How do I think that I'm going to keep something in my head for a year and not forget it for a month, for a week?" – William Curb [02:31]

2. Accountability as a Game-Changer

• Sharing goals with others introduces external pressure and reminders, which can boost follow-through (even if it’s anxiety-inducing).
• Russ calls these “hope surrogates” – people who believe in you and keep your intentions alive.
• William and Russ swap stories about accidental accountability when friends circle back on ideas previously shared.

3. Black-and-White Boundaries vs. Moderation

• While black-and-white thinking is often deemed a cognitive distortion, Russ explains that setting clear, non-negotiable boundaries is sometimes the most effective strategy for ADHD brains, especially around addictive behaviors.

  "Some people out there in the world can do that stuff. They can moderate. And to just know myself and be like, oh, that's just not who I am. Okay, so let me set up some black and white boundaries instead of being like, well, let's work in the gray here. Like, there's no gray." – Russ Jones [05:41]

4. Managing Distractions with Custom Digital Environments

• William shares his usage of strict digital blockers (the Freedom app) to prevent access to distracting sites like Reddit and to purposefully keep his phone app-free, especially from email and social media.

• The conversation demonstrates how intentional friction (making distractions harder to access) can lead to greater productivity and mindful use of technology.

  "Right now I have Reddit blocked 23 hours and 59 minutes a day." – William Curb [08:19]

• This habit inspires Russ to suggest a community challenge: a 30-day "no email on your phone" experiment.

5. Gamification & Community: Making Change Fun (and Less Lonely)

• Russ emphasizes the value of making personal development challenges into social or gamified experiences, increasing accountability and enjoyment.
• Examples include “no email” challenges and group support for tackling difficult habits.

  "It's by gamifying it a bit. Like I'm literally talking to you on a personal level. Like, I think I'm going to do that and it scares the crap out of me." – Russ Jones [10:15]

6. Tweaking Your Environment: Out of Sight, Out of Mind

• Physical cues are crucial; keeping temptations out of sight and desired habits visible can shape behavior without relying on willpower.
• William illustrates how putting away game consoles and keeping books visible changes what he gravitates toward when bored.

  "If I want to be like, oh, I want to read more, I'm going to just bring my Kindle with me and set it on my desk." – William Curb [13:56]

7. The Essential Role of Support & Connection

• Both hosts share personal stories (the Polar Plunge, weekly walks) underscoring the power of doing hard things together and how social connection can provide motivation where solo effort fails.

Memorable Quote

"Hills are never as steep when you walk them with a friend. That's exactly the point of community." – Russ Jones [15:44]

8. Depression, Inertia, and the Power of “Hope Surrogates”

• The conversation turns candid and empathetic around handling depression, which frequently co-occurs with ADHD.
• Russ introduces the concept of a "core four"—four people you can always call when things are hardest, who hold belief for you when you can't.

  "Sometimes we need people to believe in us when we don't believe in ourselves, to hold our hope for us." – Russ Jones [21:25]

9. Understand Your Real Limits (and Meet Yourself with Compassion)

• The hosts discuss how, while strategizing, you must be honest about what you can actually do in a low-energy state, not just what you should do (e.g., jogging for depression is great advice in theory, but possibly unreachable in the moment).

10. Journaling, Self-Talk, and Managing Rumination

• Writing down recurring negative thoughts can bring objectivity and perspective, making it easier to see distortions and choose more realistic, supportive self-talk.

  "When it's in my head, that's fine. When I write it down, I'm like, that's not something I would say to someone else." – William Curb [26:13]

11. Celebrate Wins & Handle Negativity Bias

• Tools like “ta-da” lists and recording wins are extra important, as ADHD brains naturally fixate on failures due to negativity bias.
• The brain’s negativity bias is a survival function, but can sabotage motivation and self-worth unless actively countered.

  "The brain is like the world's greatest lawyer, and it has all the data on why you are a piece of shit." – Russ Jones [28:40]

12. Community as the Missing Pillar

• Russ’s parting advice: If you’re struggling to sustain progress, connect with a community. It’s the “nest” that lets you build skills and confidence, return when needed, and eventually support others.

  "I can't stress enough how much I believe that community is the thing that's missing in a lot of people with ADHD's lives...build up your wings, and then fly and then try to do it on your own." – Russ Jones [32:16]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | | --- | --- | --- | | 02:31 | "How do I think that I'm going to keep something in my head for a year and not forget it for a month, for a week?” | William Curb | | 05:41 | "Let me set up some black and white boundaries...there’s no gray." | Russ Jones | | 08:19 | "Right now I have Reddit blocked 23 hours and 59 minutes a day." | William Curb | | 10:15 | "I'm going to create a 30 day, no email on my phone challenge. Let's go. Who wants to play with me?" | Russ Jones | | 15:44 | "Hills are never as steep when you walk them with a friend. That's exactly the point of community." | Russ Jones | | 21:25 | "Sometimes we need people to believe in us when we don't believe in ourselves, to hold our hope for us." | Russ Jones | | 28:40 | "The brain is like the world's greatest lawyer and it has all the data on why you are a piece of shit." | Russ Jones |

---

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:00-05:00] – Goal Forgetfulness and the Need for External Reminders
• [07:00-10:00] – Digital Boundaries: Blocking Distractions & Removing Email
• [10:00-13:00] – Gamifying Habits & Forming Challenges
• [13:00-15:00] – Behavior Shaping via Environmental Tweaks
• [15:00-18:00] – Social Support: Why Accountability Works
• [19:00-22:00] – Navigating Connection & Depression with Compassion and Core Support
• [25:00-28:00] – Reframing Negative Thoughts, Journaling, and Task-based Affirmations

---

Tone & Style Highlights

• Conversational, candid, and humorous
• Self-compassion and mutual understanding for the ADHD experience
• Non-judgmental, with a focus on what actually works
• Blend of practical “hacks” and deep, empathetic reflection

---

Episode Takeaways

• Don’t go it alone: Leverage community for accountability, support, and encouragement.
• Black-and-white rules can be tools: For some ADHDers, clear “none” or “always” boundaries work better than moderation.
• Change your environment, change your behavior: Make habits you want easy and tempting ones hard to access.
• Celebrate wins: Your brain might only highlight setbacks, so build systems for positive reinforcement.
• Accept your brain’s wiring: Recognize how ADHD, depression, and negativity bias affect you, and work with those tendencies instead of fighting them solo.

---

For Listeners: Action Steps

• Try removing one distraction (like email or social media) from your phone for a few days and note the effect.
• Find (or build) a supportive group to tackle hard tasks or accountability challenges together.
• When forming new routines, experiment with black-and-white rules and see if they improve follow-through.
• Write down negative self-talk occasionally to see it from an outside perspective.
• Remember: having “hope surrogates”—people who root for you when you can’t—is not weakness, it’s essential.

---

For more resources, visit:

• Show Notes for this episode
• ADHD Big Brother Community

---

Transcript

[Russ Jones]

Back to school is better with Family freedom from T Mobile, we'll pay off.

[William Curb]

Four phones up to $3200 and give.

[Russ Jones]

You four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network.

[William Curb]

Visit your local T Mobile location or.

[Russ Jones]

Learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom.

[William Curb]

Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 820099 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile from.

[Russ Jones]

Unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena, from comedy gold to relationship fails, Amazon Music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with prime because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is, well, nothing. Download the Amazon Music app today.

[William Curb]

Welcome to Hacking youg adhd. I'm your host William Curb and I have adhd. On this podcast I dig into the tools, tactics and best practices to help you work with your ADHD brain. Hey team, we're back for part two of my conversation with Russ Jones, host of the ADHD Big Brother podcast and head of his community based ADHD coaching of the same name. In this half of the conversation we get into the nitty gritty of how to actually get yourself to do the things you know you want to do, whether that's tackling laundry, setting and remembering goals, or just getting yourself unstuck when ADHD inertia hits. We talk about how traditional goal setting can fail for some of us with ADHD and try and flip that around, why accountability makes everything more manageable and how structuring tasks in a fun, interest driven way can make all the difference. Russell also shares some of his best hacks for dealing with executive dysfunction, including gamifying chores, breaking through mental resistance, and using community as a force multiplier for motivation. Now, just as a note, you don't have to listen to the first half of the conversation to get out a lot of this episode, but just want you to know that this is part two. And if you'd like to follow along on the Show Notes page, you can find [e-mail] 214 all right, keep on listening to find out how to build momentum, follow through and stop getting stuck at the starting line. It feels weird that we forget about our goals like that feels like that. It's like, oh yeah, this is the thing I want and then that's just Going to stick in there forever. And I'm like, that's a huge red flag to think that. Because there's nothing in my brain that is stuck in there forever. Like, I've.

[Russ Jones]

Yes.

[William Curb]

How do I think that I'm going to keep something in my head for a year and not forget it for a month, for a week? You know, Like, I'm like, I need those reminders because we think it's going.

[Russ Jones]

To be embedded in our soul. We think it's going to become our new mindset or our new. Because we thought it. It changes everything. I'm like, I agree with you a hundred percent. Like, you could literally have your 2024 goals right outside your door, but when you walk to the kitchen to go grab a drink, you're going to forget your 2024 goal. That's a guarantee. We're all just in service of, like, is it important? Where is it going to be? So it lives in front of your face, and then where's your support system to keep it not only in front of your face, but people that keep rooting for you, like hope surrogates? Right. When we're like, I believe in you, I think you're going to do it, I'm going to ask you about it.

[William Curb]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I've done that with people where I'm just like, oh, yeah, do it. And they, like, ask me about it. I'm like, oh, geez, why did I tell someone about that? Now I have to do something, dude.

[Russ Jones]

I said I was going to do that, didn't I?

[William Curb]

Yeah, that came up recently. I had been shopping some ideas around some friends at the International ADHD conference, and then I talked to them one earlier this week, and they're like, oh, yeah, how about this thing? And I'm like, oh, I should do something about that. That should not live in my head anymore. That should go on a list of projects that I eventually going to get to. Not today, but eventually.

[Russ Jones]

Do you get, like, that way where you're in the moment? It's like, sky's the limit. You're like, oh, yeah, that sounds great. I'm going to become this person. I'm going to do that thing.

[William Curb]

It is so easy to envision myself having an infinite amount of energy, an infinite amount of motivation, and just not wanting to do any of the things that I know are bad for me.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, my gosh. Same these.

[William Curb]

And then especially, you know, lying in a bed at night when I'm like, oh, yeah, that's what I'm going to do tomorrow I'm like, wake up. Like, oh, I'm tired still. Apparently I need more than seven hours of sleep and listening to my dog bark at 6:30 is not helpful. Okay. So do you ever think about like.

[Russ Jones]

Black and white thing? I sometimes I really lean into my black and white thinking. I know we call it a cognitive distortion a lot of times, but man, having a black and white boundary on certain things has been really helpful for me. I know with like addiction type stuff, it's like, it's the way to go. But even with ADHD type things, when I'm doing things black and white, I tend to be more successful. Like bedtime at 9:30.

[William Curb]

Yeah, exactly. Like being like, this is. Yeah. So I was telling you I was at that friend's party, you know, last weekend and yeah, it was out of my routine. Didn't. I was like, oh, I don't need to do my bedtime at 9:30. I should still get to bed, you know, at a reasonable time. But I'm like, 2am is apparently way too late to be getting up. Especially when my body is used to getting up at 6:30 and so doing that kind of thing where it's just like, oh my God, when I didn't have that rule, my body went, there's no rules at all. Now the black and white thing, it's nice. Like, this is the rule. This is what I do. When you break the rule. Like, oh, there's no rules. I can do whatever I want. And it's like, I shouldn't go that way either.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. Like thinking about like stuff like alcohol. Like if I have alcohol in the house, I will just. I don't moderate. I don't, I don't know how to moderate. And you would think that you could just be an adult and be like, oh no. You know when there's. Just have one. Because having a whiskey is great and it's fun and you love it. Like, okay, but when I have a whiskey, if I have it in the house, I'll just keep having whiskey. Okay, that's a problem. There was a problem with the nicotine. Like, oh, just have a cigarette. That's not a real thing to have just a cigarette. Some people out there in the world can do that stuff. They can moderate. And to just know myself and be like, oh, that's just not who I am. Okay, so let me set up some black and white boundaries instead of being like, well, let's work in the gray here. Like, there's no gray.

[William Curb]

Yeah, well, there's no successful Gray. Yeah. Understanding where you do and don't have those issues. Like, yeah, yeah, I am. I feel very privileged in that I have no problems with alcohol, like, for. Wow.

[Russ Jones]

Must be nice, William. Must be real nice to be you.

[William Curb]

Yeah. New Year's, like, my wife like poured me a glass of champagne and I drank half of it. I'm like, oh, this is nice. And then I forgot about it. And I was like, oh, that is a clear sign that this is not an issue. Even though, you know, 20s was definitely a different time, but now it's just like, oh, yeah, I forgot that that was a thing. But there's like other things where I'm like, oh, there's. There's cookies on the counter for now.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. All kinds of things. Right. For me, it could be. Sometimes it would be like if I have potato chips or something and I'm in the middle of currently binging a series. Like if there's a series that I'm watching, I have a real hard time with the nighttime, like, oh, chips. And binging like that to me is. It's really hard to put moderation on that stuff. Yeah.

[William Curb]

I was thinking about the same thing because I was like, started watching a show yesterday. I was like, I'll have some lunch and I'll watch this thing. I'm like, why did I watch four one hour episodes in the middle of the day now? I don't have a day. Any left. Yes. And it's like, oh, yeah. Like. Or social media being like, oh, oh yeah. Like, I'm like, I have a very serious block on my computer to prevent me from going on Reddit now because I'm like, I'll just go and read things that make me upset and make me not want to do anything for hours if I let myself do it.

[Russ Jones]

That's actually something that I would be interested to hearing about. This is Hack youkadhd. Hacking youg adhd. What's the hack? What is the thing that you put on your computer that prevents the.

[William Curb]

Right now I have a application called Freedom.

[Russ Jones]

Freedom. What is it?

[William Curb]

It is a browser extension or I have the app installed on the computer and I can set it to automatically block websites or kinds of websites at certain times. Automatically. Right now I have Reddit blocked 23 hours and 59 minutes a day.

[Russ Jones]

You get one quick minute with it.

[William Curb]

Yeah. 3am so if I can do it, that's it.

[Russ Jones]

If I really wanted to, I could do it.

[William Curb]

Yeah. And it even has like things where I'm like, it won't allow me to Force quit the application now.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, right.

[William Curb]

On which I'm like, yeah, because I totally would if I could.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah.

[William Curb]

I have figured ways to get around it if I really want to, but they're involved enough that I can be like, well, I'm not going to do that because I can. Because it's enough separation from the thought of doing it and not.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah, that's brilliant. Like there's enough tension and time for you to be self aware enough to be like, oh, that's right.

[William Curb]

It's.

[Russ Jones]

This is a. So you have time to get off of autopilot. Is that it?

[William Curb]

Yeah.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, that's brilliant.

[William Curb]

And I have currently nothing on my phone. Just utility apps, no games, no social media.

[Russ Jones]

There is.

[William Curb]

Wow. Browser, which I use to read Wikipedia. But that is. I don't mind that. Like, it is me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I was on my phone for 45 minutes today. That's fine. Like, that's not that much.

[Russ Jones]

45 minutes is. Yeah, that's. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah.

[William Curb]

And it was just like, oh, it's like, what's your most used app? Messaging. Great. That's. That's what it does.

[Russ Jones]

I'm social. Yay.

[William Curb]

Yeah. I don't even have email on my phone right now because I was like, that's. That's a problem.

[Russ Jones]

Do you really? That is freaking next level.

[William Curb]

Yeah, it was weird. I went to that party, I didn't bring a computer. I was like, I can't even check my email while I'm here. It's fine. It was fine. It was great.

[Russ Jones]

This is. Okay, so here's the thing. This is the kind of thing that I would bring into my community. Like, like we do challenges. I get stuff like this that you're saying, like, I don't even have email on your phone. That to me creates a challenge in my head. I'm like, oh, could I do that? I'm going to create a 30 day, no email on my phone challenge. Let's go. Who wants to play with me? And then we all are miserable together. Or we all are like, oh, did. How's it going for you? I can't do it. I have to. But it's. That's how that kind of stuff becomes fun to me. It's by gamifying it a bit. Like I'm literally talking to you on a personal level. Like, I think I'm going to do that and it scares the crap out of me.

[William Curb]

I mean, there have been times where I'm like, man, I would be like, I was like, oh, I should.

[Russ Jones]

Dang it.

[William Curb]

Can't do that right now.

[Russ Jones]

You have to go to your computer to check your email. Yeah.

[William Curb]

And it makes me more likely to respond to my email because I'm not just like, glancing at it and be like, oh, yeah, that, that, that I'll read something and be like, oh, I can do about something about that because I'm sitting here and I can deal with it.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, dude, William, you're. You're breaking a habit that I have that I've been wanting to get out of, which is first thing in the morning when I wake up, I look and see what kind of emails I have because it's. There's like a joy in that. Like, I wonder what kind of, oh, if I get a call or if, oh, is there an appointment today or what's going to happen today? There's like a joy in that. But I don't know that that's the most effective way for me to start my day, for my brain. So I'm really juiced up about this.

[William Curb]

So, I mean, it took a bit to get used to. The first day I took everything off my phone. I kept picking it up and looking at it and just staring at it and being like, there's nothing here, but I can't stop. Then few days later, it was like, okay, still doing it occasionally, but I. And I'll like, still, like, I'll like, open up and look and be like, I don't know why I'm here. I'm expecting this to entertain me. But, like, doing that also made me like, oh, I am picking this up for a reason. And I don't like that reason that I was like, I'm like, I don't want to be doing these things to just cure this boredom that I'm feeling for a few seconds. There are other things I can do in my life that are better that I enjoy more than looking at my phone. So let me incentivize that instead of having this thing that's just so easy to do, that that's the reason I do it.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. Oh, my God. I challenge every single one of your listeners that don't have jobs that require them to answer emails on their phones. But I think we should do that.

[William Curb]

I mean, that was like the thing for me. I was like, why am I needing to read this on my phone? Like, there are certain times when it has been useful, but it is not considering any of the, like, at any use, does not consider the cost that can come along with something because we're like, oh, yeah, anything can be useful, but everything has a cost as well. And so if we're not measuring both, that's something that is. You're going to just end up being like, I have all these tools that I don't use and they actually kind of hurt me because, I mean, that's kind of like why we've, like, everyone's jumped on social media. Like, we're just like, oh, this is great because it does this connection thing, but it also has this huge other, like, dark side that we're kind of just okay with now because everyone's on social media.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah, that's the new social norm. Right. It's the new normal of the. I'm thinking now because now that I don't have the Mail app is still on my phone, but when I click on it, it's like, hey, do you want to connect one of your emails? So it's gone now I'm thinking, okay, so it's just one less casual thing I can glance at when I have my phone down, when, like, that's going to free up a lot. And so then if I'm really, it's going to make me prioritize emails in terms of time blocking it. Right. I have to have a dedicated email time.

[William Curb]

Yeah. That's a lot of stuff that I find is like, what am I making easier, what am I making harder? And how is that going to influence my choices? Like, what's the easiest breakfast for me to have? If I make having a healthy breakfast easier, that's what I'm going to eat. Lowering the resistance to the things I want to do. Increasing resistance to the things I don't want to do. It's like, if, oh, like if I, like, if I'm playing video games too much and I want to play fewer video games, actually put it, like, make it so, like, okay, I'm going to put this away when I'm not playing it, but if I have my little DS with Mega man on it sitting on my desk in front of me, whenever I'm bored, I'm going to pick up and play a little bit of Mega Man. If I don't want to do that, put it away. If I want to be like, oh, I want to read more, I'm going to just bring my Kindle with me and set it on my desk. And so then I'm like, when I've got three, five minutes where I'm bored and I don't want to engage with something, I'll do that.

[Russ Jones]

This is like literally that Is ADHD like out of sight, out of mind. You're playing to the fact that we do forget. Like we forget our goals when we walk out of the room. You'll forget the DS if it's not right in front of your face waiting for you to play it right. In some cases right there will always still be that draw. Like I'm still going to now have a draw to check my email because there's a little bit of attention point to it. There's a little bit of a self awareness of like, oh, is this email time now or is this not email time now? Oh, okay, now I can make a decision. I think this is really fascinating.

[William Curb]

Yeah, I mean, and it's doing this with the community stuff where like I'm going to do this, this is going to be hard and I want someone to check in on me about it because I don't know if I'm going to keep up. If I just say this on my own is huge because that's like there have been so many times where I've just done something like, oh, I'm going to do this thing and then like a week later I'm like, well, just going to undo that because I can 1000%.

[Russ Jones]

This is a great point. I'm playing to the integrity that we were talking about earlier. So now as soon as we get off this, I'm going into my community and I'm going to announce it as a challenge. Therefore I've declared it. There was a study that I'd read, but I just remember the, the, there was a blurb in it that said hills are never as steep when you walk them with a friend. I'm like, that's exactly the point of community. Right. If you and I do this shitty thing together, it's going to feel a little bit less shitty. I walk around the Rose bowl with my buddy Brian every week. If he cancels on me, I'm not going. If I cancel on him, he's not going. Because it's just like it's a three mile journey. I don't want to do that, but I would love to hang out with Brian and walk it with him. I love that stuff. I don't even know what the main point of all that was, but I.

[William Curb]

My wife and I do a polar plunge every year and I love it. It's great. What do you do?

[Russ Jones]

You jump into the freezing water?

[William Curb]

Yeah, we have a lake up near us. It's like glacial runoff. It's very cold and yeah, jump in first of the year. It's fun.

[Russ Jones]

Would you do it alone? Would you do it without her? Or is it because of the fact that you're both doing it?

[William Curb]

Probably at this point? It's because we both, like, I probably would do it on my own now. And so normally there's, like, a group that does it that's. But it's, like, a pain to get to. They have, like, awful parking, and we don't know anybody there. So it's just kind of like doing it with the other people that are there. So this year we're like, oh, we're just gonna go to this park that is on the other side of this place, and we'll. There's like, we'll just do it, the two of us, you know? And we got in, and I was like, in the water, sitting there, like, getting ready to dunk myself, being like, I'm already in the cold water, but, like, dunking your head feels like a whole different experience when it's cold. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna do my head. No, I'm not. And I was like. Started walking out. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be disappointed in myself if I don't do this. So I went on to do it. But would I have even gotten that close had I not had, you know, my wife there and, yeah. My kids there being like, what the hell are you doing?

[Russ Jones]

And, yeah, chanting, dog your head, dog.

[William Curb]

You're in. Yeah. Well, my kids. My kids are just like, why are you going to do this? This is terrible. When my daughter was 5, she was like, saw us doing. She's like, I'm going to go in. And she, like, ran into the water with her feet, and then just. It was so cold. She started crying so much. And I was like. And she's like, I'm never doing that again. I'm like, I. I can see that you had a real bad time.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, my gosh.

[William Curb]

Would I have even started doing it if I wasn't doing it with a bunch of other people? Because I have, like, you know, pictures from decade ago when I was doing it with some friends.

[Russ Jones]

Wow. This is a tradition. This is a hardcore embedded tradition.

[William Curb]

Now. The only time I skipped is when I had an open wound on my hand. And I was like, I don't want to go in a lake with an open wound. That seems like a bad choice. I'd been cleaning and crushed my finger because.

[Russ Jones]

Crushed it.

[William Curb]

I was moving a medicine ball and was being like, oh, I'm just gonna do, like, you know, impulsively tried to like toss it somewhere else and instead of tossing it, I just tossed my finger with it and into a wall.

[Russ Jones]

I'm like, so that's how you got out of it, huh? That's how you got out of your cold plunge?

[William Curb]

Yeah. I was like, nope, not doing it this year because fingernail came off and gross. It was awful. But yeah, but other than that. Yeah, it's been like every year.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, that's super cool.

[William Curb]

Would I do that without anyone else there? Would I have started doing that without anyone else there? Probably not. I don't know. I was like thinking like, I just feel weird to be like, well, I'm going to go walk in this water and walk out of this water and then I'm done. And like, oh no, it's doing it with other people that makes that a thing.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And just being around others and doing things with others, I think that's a big deal. And I know like connection's a big deal for people that are depressed. It's one of those hard things to, to do when you are depressed is to connect and find those connections. I know this. I'm kind of taking this into a dark place. I don't.

[William Curb]

Just talking with someone about this yesterday, it's like how when you are in that space. Yeah. Doing the things you know that are going to help are so hard to do.

[Russ Jones]

They're the word, they're the hardest things. Right?

[William Curb]

Yeah.

[Russ Jones]

So that having the easiest possible way to get to that connection, I think.

[William Curb]

Is a big deal. Yeah. When I think the, when I was talking with them, I was like, you need to preemptively do things. And if you're building your community, you're going to have people being like, hey, I haven't seen you in a while. Like just having that like little like olive branch, like you can come and not do anything. You don't have to turn on the camera. Just if you're there, we'll be thrilled.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. I love that and I love, I find that a lot of us, we all know that we all have the co occurring conditions, right. The depression, the anxiety, the, all the, all of the fun ones.

[William Curb]

Yeah.

[Russ Jones]

And just that aspect of knowing. I know in our community we have a number of us that have depression as well. And it's like, you run hot, you're on cold, but you, you always know that there's acceptance. I think that, I think that's a big deal. I think I said it earlier, like hope, surrogacy I think is a thing I'm no therapist, but here's what I believe in. Sometimes we need hope surrogates. We need, like. And I'm speaking as a person with depression who. This is how I feel. Sometimes we need people to believe in us when we don't believe in ourselves, to hold our hope for us. Right. This kind of chokes me up a little bit, but because it's. You're like, oh, that's. It feels weak or whatever. And I'm like, it's not. It's just. It's an okay thing. And it's a. It's a warm thing. And it's a. It's based out of love and about camaraderie and people who know the experience that you're feeling. Like, it's really like somebody that's, like, not depressed, who's not in. Are not in a depressive episode, are so much more, in my view, qualified to help somebody that's in a depressive episode because they know exactly where that person is. The ideations, the whatever, the hopelessness, all that stuff. They're like, I know where you're at.

[William Curb]

Yeah. Not asking anything of that person.

[Russ Jones]

Like, I know, man.

[William Curb]

Asking anything of me. When I'm depressed, nothing's going to happen. It's just like, I might do something, but it's not going to give me space to get out of the depression. Like, I'll be like, I'm just like, I'm making lunches for kids. That's what I'm doing. And then I'm gonna go sit in the closet for a while.

[Russ Jones]

Sit in the closet, because that's where I'm going. Yes, totally. I call him my core four, because when I'm depressed, I. Nobody likes me. I'm positive that people think I'm a huge turd and would love for me just to not exist. You can't convince me otherwise. That truth just. The brain won't let me not believe that. So I have a core four, which is like, there's four people that I'm super close to that know about being me, being getting depressed. They know about depression. And I can call them. I can do the thing that you're supposed to do that you never want to do, which is call somebody. They are available. They're beautiful people. They're like, this chokes me up. But it's like, they know. They get it. And so they. They're like, I'll be there for you no matter what. Even though you think I hate you, I'll be. I'll show up for You. I think that's beautiful. We all need those Core four. Yeah.

[William Curb]

Because, yeah, it's. Yeah. You don't think anyone likes you because of how little you like yourself. It's just. Yes.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, isn't that the worst? Yeah, yeah. It's just like.

[William Curb]

And it's. I hate the retrospect too, when you're like, man, that didn't make any sense. And it's like. But I think that's like an important thing to also realize is that like, yeah, you are a different person in that state. You cannot rely on a lot of the what you think you would do. You have to be figure out like, okay, what will I actually do? Not versus what should I do? What can I get myself to do that will?

[Russ Jones]

Yeah.

[William Curb]

You know, like calling one of your core four, like, that is something. Okay, I can do this. Because even though I feel like this, I can do it. But a lot of times, like, we come up with these strategies where like, oh, I'm going to do this thing. This is, you know, my infinite energy, infinite motivation.

[Russ Jones]

Like, you gotta go for a jog.

[William Curb]

It's like, oh, yeah, going out and exercise. Great for depression. True. Also not something that's going to happen. I know.

[Russ Jones]

Isn't that the craziest?

[William Curb]

Yeah. One of the things I find I can do, I can go drive and as long as I'm not having ideations of like having a traffic accident, that's great.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah.

[William Curb]

But it's just like, oh, yeah, the movement. Being outside helps. And I can just do that.

[Russ Jones]

For sure. I love that. You know, I'm in la, so like the, the fires was. It's. It put me in a. In a depressive episode. But the other day I was like, I was having all these thoughts and I started writing them down because they were so stupid. They were so like, I can't even think of one. But it would just be like, nobody loves you. It would be something like that. Like something that on you put on paper and you're like, I don't want to fight that thought. Which is sometimes what we tend to do. We tend to be like, no, I have to convince myself I'm lovable. I have to start showing myself the data that I'm like, no, I don't believe I'm. I don't believe it. So the answer for me was it's very like, act oriented. Well, we could talk about that in a second. But it's like the. It's very much like that's the thought. The thought is the thought. I don't have to do anything with it. I'm just going to go, that, that's there. And I'm going to have myself the day. I'm going to go do something. But the thoughts are just. They're not real. That has been pretty helpful to me, at least to curb the ruminating a little bit.

[William Curb]

You know, it's so funny when you, like, you write them down and you're just like, did I really just write that Nobody loves me.

[Russ Jones]

I know.

[William Curb]

Oh, my God.

[Russ Jones]

Is it?

[William Curb]

Oh, my God, yes. And this is a great strategy with ADHD stuff too, is like, you know, be like, I can never remember my keys. And you're like, that seems like a stretch. And you're like, okay, well, I seldom remember take my keys. And I'm like, well, that's more true. And now, oh, maybe I can do something with that.

[Russ Jones]

Yes. Maybe it's not about becoming a person that remembers their keys. It becomes about what does a person who has a struggle of remembering their keys, what does that person do so that they. Their keys are top of mind or in front of them or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[William Curb]

This is where the. Yeah. Where we have to fight that black and white thinking because. And yet writing it down such a huge piece to like, oh, that when it's in my head, that's fine. When I write it down, I'm like, that's not something I would say to someone else.

[Russ Jones]

Because isn't it. It kind of helps you get perspective sometimes, doesn't it? Because you're like looking at as a third party. You're looking at. As an objective viewer of the, of the text, I guess. Right. That's so interesting.

[William Curb]

Yeah. And it's funny how that works. I know I'm all one person, but I do feel like, you know, I'm the observer of myself sometimes. You know, I have the observer of the observer. I don't think I go deeper than that. But.

[Russ Jones]

But who observes the observer of the observer? That's the person we're trying to get to.

[William Curb]

Because. Yeah, when the observer sees that, they go, yeah, that's dumb. And the person goes, the internal person's the same person. They're like, yeah, you're right. I should probably. I still feel that way, but I now have a little bit of separation and maybe I can think about. I. It's. Yeah, it's the thought rumination where it's just like this just is a thought that's repeating and repeating and repeating and it's not clearing and writing it down kind of helps clear it out.

[Russ Jones]

Oh, for sure. For sure. Helps us to see it for what it is. And, like, the. And for me, it was like, it's not something that I have to try to force alter. I've done this a bunch in the. On my podcast and in the community of, like, affirmations are not really a thing for me. Like, I can't fight ruminations by going into a mirror and saying, I love you. I love you, buddy. You're lovable. My brain is like, you're an idiot. No, you don't. I'll tell you why you don't love yourself. Remember in third grade? Remember in fourth grade? You know? But I'm like, the thing that I will do is. They're called task formations. They're like, what does a person that loves themselves. What. What do they do? Oh, maybe they go for a walk. Okay, well, maybe when I'm not feeling like. But like, maybe there's some things that I can do that I can go, hey, brain. Look, you idiot. Not that I have a contentious relationship with my brain. I'm sorry, William. The hey, friendly brain that tells me all the horrible things in the world. Look, I do love myself. Look what I did. I did a thing.

[William Curb]

Yeah. I remember one time having a thought that was with that contentious brain word, being like, man, you're such a piece of shit for doing that. And I was like, you're not a piece of shit. Only a piece of shit would call themselves a piece of shit. God damn it, brain.

[Russ Jones]

Totally. The brain is like. Is. The brain is like the world's greatest lawyer, and it has all the data on why you are a piece of shit. It will it, basically. And so you go to court with the brain, and the brain is like, oh, your honor, exhibit A through infinity. And I'm sitting there going, but I have a shitty working memory. I can't remember anything. I'm. What are the good things? You know, it's. But your brain is so fast with the bad stuff. How do you fight it? It's like in my head, I'm like, well, it's not a fight. It's. It's. Yeah, you're there. I'm gonna go do a thing now. Yeah.

[William Curb]

I mean, I think that's why it's so important for some. A lot of people to have, like, these, like, ta da lists and, like, you know, things they've. They've done, you know, on, like, celebrating wins and stuff. It's like, oh, yeah, because that's not my natural inclination. I need to build the tools in to make it so that it happens at least sometimes.

[Russ Jones]

Yes. And I mean, how good does it feel? And this is to everybody that's listening right now is it means the world to hear from somebody that their work is meaningful. So when you get a good review on your podcast, doesn't that make you feel good in the moment? And have you ever been like, even though you have one of the most successful ADHD podcasts out there, do you ever feel like, oh, I'm dumb all the time. What am I doing? Yeah.

[William Curb]

How many times this week have I felt that way?

[Russ Jones]

So everybody listening? Come on. Throw the guy his five star review. He earned it. He's earned it. He's helped the hell out of you. Come on. Anyway, that was my side note. But these kinds of things, where we hear things, are helpful big time.

[William Curb]

Yeah. Because brain isn't helping me on its own. So.

[Russ Jones]

I know we could philosophize about this for hours, man. Yeah. Of what is the ultimate goal? And is it to get our brain to chatter all the time that it loves us? And I think that that's not a thing because the brain is meant to keep us alive. So it is meant to constantly be looking for problems, and it's constantly meant to do that.

[William Curb]

It has negativity bias because for sure, for sure. Like, well, I just watched Steve eat those poison berries. Let's not do that because he is having a bad day now. Or, you know, like, yeah, I have those berries and they gave me the runs and now I'm never going to eat berries again. Like, that is important for our brains. Like, that is a survival thing. Like, our brains need to have that negativity. When those bad things happen, we really need to know about it.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. And then that happens, like with all kinds of things.

[William Curb]

Right.

[Russ Jones]

In our childhood, when we. When we get broken up with for the first time and we think, oh, falling in love is evil because it will hurt you and hurt is equal to killing you. So in order to survive, don't put yourself out there. Right. It's like all kinds of crazy. Like, don't try hard, because every time you try hard, you fail. Remember third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade. Oh, shit. I guess I have to not try. It's crazy shit.

[William Curb]

Trauma is just our brain trying to protect ourselves.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah.

[William Curb]

Admittedly in a very poor fashion, but it is trying to protect us.

[Russ Jones]

I know. Gosh.

[William Curb]

Like, we're gonna never let that happen again, but the doing so is causing problems. We're never going to let that happen again.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. Ever. All situations are this situation, you will never divert.

[William Curb]

Yeah.

[Russ Jones]

Like, oh, God. Thanks, brain. You're great.

[William Curb]

All right, well, is there anything you want to leave the audience with?

[Russ Jones]

If you're an ADHD that is an adult and is wondering why you aren't still doing the stuff, even though you know the stuff, really look into joining a community. I'm biased towards mine, obviously, because it's ADHD bigbrother.com or actually the community is ADHD BigBrother Circle. So it's a really cool community platform. I can't stress enough how much I believe that community is the thing that's missing in a lot of people with ADHD's lives, and I do believe that we can do things on our own. However, it is supremely helpful to get in the nest, build up your wings, and then fly and then try to do it on your own. And if you splat on the ground, no big deal, you just climb back in the nest and you get work on your wings some more. It's not meant. Oh, you know what? This is a good thing to say because I was the same way with my quit group with nicotine. Community isn't necessarily meant to be forever, but it's meant to be there for you when you need it. When you get your shit together, then you can then become a support vessel. Like, you can then offer your support. That's my ramble about that.

[William Curb]

I think community is one of those pillars that we often gets overlooked because people are like, sounds hard.

[Russ Jones]

Yeah. Or is it? They're like, I already know everything, so I'm just going to do that. And once I just do that, I'll be done. You're like, well, but you got to do the things right.

[William Curb]

Yep.

[Russ Jones]

So anyway, but I really appreciate you having me on. It's super fun talking to you, man, and I had a blast. So thank you. Appreciate it.

[William Curb]

Thanks again to Russ for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. If you want to check out more of Russ's work, be sure to go check out ADHD Big Brother. But before you go, let's do a quick rundown of Today's top tips. 1. When you're stuck in a rut, having people who believe in you, even when you don't believe in yourself, can be a game changer. This is one of the places where having a strong community can really help you flourish. Two, Traditional goal setting doesn't always work. If you're finding yourself stuck, try a reverse mountain approach. Instead of imagining the goal at the top. Imagine yourself at the top and let the momentum pull you down, guiding each next step toward your goal. 3. If something is important but boring, find ways to inject fun, novelty, or urgency to make it more engaging. If the task still feels unbearable, set a 10 minute timer and see how far you get. If you still don't want to do it, try switching things up and then work on finding an approach that does work. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me [e-mail] contact if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes [e-mail] 214 if you'd like even more Hacking youg Be sure to sign up for my newsletter any and all Distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions of the week, be they what I'm reading, what I'm playing, or what I'm watching. I also try to give a few bits of actionable advice in each newsletter, although I'm sure your mileage is going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head over to hackingyouradhd.com newsletter to sign up. I also want to let you know about our Patreon that I've been reworking. You can easily find [e-mail] Patreon I'm trying to go with a pay what you want model, meaning that all levels of the Patreon will receive the same stuff. You can pay $0 or $2 or $10 and it's all the same. The only real difference coming from the roles that are assigned on the Hacking youg ADHD Discord. Which reminds me that I also wanted to announce that we're now on Discord, which you can get access to from the Patreon, which again is pay what you want. So if you want to come check out the Discord or the Patreon, you can get yourself some Access [e-mail] Patreon Also, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, which you can find at YouTube.com ackingyouradhd and I'm also now on Bluesky, which you can find again at hackingyouradhd. Finally, if you'd like to support the show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them, just click the share button on the podcast player and send it over to them. And now for your moment of Dad, I just watched a documentary on marijuana and man, all documentaries should be watched this way.

[Russ Jones]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to libsynads. Com. That's L, I B S Y N Ads. Com. Today.