Ep. 521: Very Special Episode! Ask Us Anything, Part II

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin: Episode 521 – Very Special Episode! Ask Us Anything, Part II

Release Date: February 12, 2025

In this engaging and insightful continuation of the "Ask Us Anything" series, Gretchen Rubin and her co-host, her sister Elizabeth Craft, delve deeper into listener questions, offering personal anecdotes, expert advice, and heartfelt discussions. This episode, steered by curiosity and sisterly camaraderie, provides listeners with a rich tapestry of topics ranging from personal habits and happiness strategies to creative endeavors and family life.

---

1. Introduction and Overview

Gretchen Rubin opens the episode by welcoming listeners to the second part of the "Ask Us Anything" series. Joined by Elizabeth Craft from Los Angeles, the sisters set the stage for a candid and comprehensive exploration of listener-submitted questions spanning various aspects of life and personal development.

Notable Quote:

Gretchen Rubin [01:09]: “Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ideas and strategies for making our lives happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative.”

---

2. "Use It or Lose It": Embracing Practical Life Lessons

Elizabeth shares a poignant update from a listener, Nicholas, illustrating the principle of "use it or lose it" beyond personal habits and into the realm of possessions. She recounts attempts to utilize old items like a card magic map and special occasion shoes, only to find them deteriorated from disuse. This emphasizes the futility of hoarding items that never fulfill their intended purpose.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [02:00]: “...when we save things for a rainy day, either the rainy day never comes or when it finally does come, we either forget we have the item already, or worse, the item has deteriorated and is no longer usable.”

Gretchen Rubin [03:22]: “By saving things, we're actually wasting them. Often we're not preserving them, we're just squandering them.”

---

3. Living in New York City vs. Los Angeles: Personal Experiences

The conversation shifts to the sisters' personal journeys from their Kansas City roots to bustling metropolises like New York City and Los Angeles. Elizabeth discusses her transition to LA to pursue a career in TV writing, contrasting it with Gretchen’s preference for New York’s vibrant energy.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [04:00]: “...if you want to be a TV writer, at least then you had to be in Los Angeles.”

Gretchen Rubin [06:50]: “I love New York City's energy. I kind of can't imagine living in Los Angeles.”

---

4. Personality and City Synergy: NYC vs. LA

Exploring the distinct energies of New York and Los Angeles, Gretchen and Elizabeth reflect on how their personalities align with these cities. They discuss the perceived rivalry between the two locales, highlighting New York’s relentless pace against LA’s ambitious and often aggressive atmosphere.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [07:12]: “To me, my LA is not laid back. Although it does close earlier. Absolutely.”

Gretchen Rubin [07:08]: “I think you could picture you living in New York. Could you ever live in the other city?”

---

5. Raising a Family in New York City

Addressing the challenges and rewards of parenthood in a major city, Gretchen shares her positive experiences raising her daughters in New York. She touches on the safety, diverse environment, and the unique urban landscape that, despite being cramped, provides a stimulating upbringing.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [07:45]: “I experienced a very safe and very positive place to bring up children, for sure.”

---

6. Focusing on Personal Happiness Amidst Global Challenges

One of the most profound segments addresses the importance of prioritizing personal happiness even when facing widespread adversity. Gretchen underscores that happier individuals are more inclined to contribute positively to society, engage in problem-solving, and support others.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [09:00]: “Happier people are more likely to help, they're more likely to vote, they have healthier habits, they're better team members and better leaders.”

Gretchen Rubin [09:00]: “It's selfish for me to work on my own happiness. Well, you should be selfish, if only for selfless reasons.”

She advises maintaining physical well-being and taking actionable steps to combat feelings of helplessness, fostering both personal resilience and societal contribution.

---

7. Selecting and Reviewing Books: Diverse Tastes and Strategies

The sisters delve into their reading habits, discussing how they choose books and the methodologies behind reviewing them. Gretchen reveals her eclectic taste, spanning from literary fiction to children’s literature, while Elizabeth emphasizes reading widely popular or recommended books to stay aligned with current trends.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [11:03]: “I have very wide-ranging tastes, so I just read what I feel like. But I like everything except mysteries, thrillers, cookbooks and horror.”

Elizabeth Craft [12:12]: “I like to read the books that everybody's reading. You do the Women by Kristin Hannah.”

Gretchen shares her struggle with reviewing books she isn’t inherently interested in, highlighting her shift from daily to weekend reviews to manage her reading backlog effectively.

---

8. Family Planning: The Six-Year Gap Between Daughters

Responding to Linda’s inquiry, Gretchen discusses the intentional planning behind the six-year age gap between her daughters. This decision was influenced by her husband Jamie’s health concerns, particularly his battle with hepatitis C, which necessitated a cautious approach to expanding their family.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [20:01]: “Jamie and I had planned on a longer gap... we were very, very worried about his liver.”

Gretchen Rubin [20:55]: “I think there's, I'm a fan of the Big Gap people for whom it works. It works.”

---

9. Reality TV Preferences and Family Viewing Habits

Elizabeth shares her avid interest in reality TV, contrasting with some family members' viewing habits. She explains her preference for shows like "Housewives" and "Survivor," and how she balances solo and family viewing experiences.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [21:16]: “Most of it's solo, because I do love reality TV more than my family. So alone, I do all the Housewives and the Bachelor...”

---

10. Community Resilience: Addressing Local Fires in LA

In light of recent wildfires, Elizabeth provides an update on her local community's safety and the broader impact on Los Angeles. She expresses gratitude towards those fighting the fires and recommends supporting relief efforts through organizations like the Red Cross.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [21:43]: “...if you want to help out, you can always give to the Red Cross, because then you know that your money is going to a good cause.”

---

11. Creative Pursuits Beyond Writing

When asked about creative outlets apart from writing, Elizabeth candidly shares that her main engagement is through her sticker collection and tablescapes. She acknowledges the importance of visual creativity in organizing and personal expression, albeit in simpler forms.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [22:28]: “I mean, unless you call my sticker collection some sort of visual art. I would say absolutely not.”

Elizabeth Craft [22:46]: “...they're pretty simple, but. Okay, we'll take it.”

---

12. Pet Ownership: Considering a Second Dog

Addressing a question from Jay, Gretchen discusses the inspiration behind possibly adding a second dog to her family. Observing the positive impact Elizabeth’s two dogs have had on her happiness motivated Gretchen to contemplate expanding their pet family.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [23:02]: “I was so astonished that Alyssa's got two dogs that I was like, wow, maybe I could have two dogs because, you know, we're both so unlikely.”

---

13. Reflections on Unmade Opportunities: The Happiness Project Show

Danny inquires about the near-miss opportunity of turning "The Happiness Project" into a TV show starring Kristin Davis. Gretchen reflects on the potential changes such an opportunity could have brought, ultimately expressing a sense of acceptance for the path not taken.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [23:59]: “I never trusted it because I know from you how hard it is and how unlikely it is to get a show on the air.”

---

14. Selecting Locations for Book Tours

Vanessa asks about the criteria for selecting book tour locations, including Boston. Gretchen explains that the process involves collaboration with publishers and bookstores, favoring both familiar cities like her hometown Kansas City and new, enthusiastic venues.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [37:46]: “We usually try to go to Kansas City just because I love my hometown and so really want to go there.”

---

15. Engaging in Mahjong: Games and Groups

Elizabeth responds to a question about her Mahjong practices, detailing her involvement with both American and Chinese Mahjong. She emphasizes the importance of tools like the Real Mahjong app and the challenges of maintaining committed playing groups in Los Angeles.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [38:52]: “I play both American Mahjong and Chinese Mahjong. American has a card and Chinese does not to practice.”

Elizabeth Craft [39:59]: “I have to find people. I actually, what I'd love to do is get a Mahjong teacher to come in if I had a group that was new and really committed.”

---

16. Clerking for Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor: An Anecdote

Danny poses a question about Gretchen's decision to clerk for Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Gretchen recounts a humorous yet insightful story about a misdelivered offer letter, highlighting Justice O'Connor's hands-on approach and the importance of responsiveness.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [40:08]: “She would ask you that, did you apply to all the justices or Justice Some. So I just think that's interesting.”

Gretchen Rubin [41:08]: “...she was like, Gretchen, why didn't you answer my letter? Because of course she knew that I would.”

---

17. Resources: Finding Your Next Novel

Wrapping up the content-focused segment, Gretchen introduces a new quiz designed to help listeners discover their next favorite book. Partnering with bookshop.org, the quiz tailors recommendations based on personal preferences, with an opportunity to win a $25 credit by sharing results on social media.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [41:44]: “It's helping you to find that next novel that's exactly what you're looking for.”

---

18. Current Reads: Personal Recommendations

The episode concludes with the sisters sharing their current reading choices, offering listeners personal touchpoints and potential new book discoveries.

Notable Quotes:

Elizabeth Craft [42:54]: “Fruit of the Dead by Rachel Lyon.”

Gretchen Rubin [42:56]: “And I'm just about to start the Many Lives of Anne Frank by Ruth Franklin.”

---

Conclusion

In this episode of "Happier with Gretchen Rubin," listeners are treated to a blend of personal stories, practical advice, and thoughtful reflections. From managing possessions and fostering happiness to navigating family dynamics and creative pursuits, Gretchen and Elizabeth provide a multifaceted exploration of what it means to lead a fulfilling life. Their authentic dialogue and willingness to share vulnerabilities make this episode a valuable resource for anyone seeking to enhance their well-being and embrace life's complexities with grace and intention.

Final Notable Quote:

Elizabeth Craft [43:12]: “Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.”

Gretchen Rubin [43:24]: “And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.”

---

Produced by The Onward Project and Lemonada Media.

Transcript

[Elizabeth Craft]

Gretch, you know, I am really trying to be healthier and I am succeeding, I want to say. But even though I'm trying to be healthier, that does not mean that I want to spend a ton on groceries. What I have found is that at Whole Foods Market, you can save every day even without a sale.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You can find these great prices in store and online. Shop Whole Foods Market on Amazon and get free pickup and convenient delivery on all your wellness journey essentials. Terms apply. Save on your wellness routine with great everyday prices at Whole Foods Market.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Guess what? Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard right, 99%. If you don't think so, maybe it's time to face facts. You're stuck in the past. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card lemonade.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ideas and strategies for making our lives happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative. This week we are doing part two of our Ask Us Anything. Last week was part one. We we had so many great questions. This is part two. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature, secrets of adulthood. I'm in my little home office here in New York City, and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I am about to see you here in New York City.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch, tomorrow morning I'm getting on a plane and heading to nyc.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Excellent. Now, before we jump into our questions about everything from writing to relationships to what it's like to be in New York City and la, we got this update from Nicholas.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, he says while you were talking about the different ways use it or lose it can apply it made me think of how this also ties in with your idea that life's too short not to use the good china. I recently pulled an item out of my wardrobe, which I purchased many, many, many years ago. It's a map for practicing card magic on. I'm not a magician, just a hobbyist. But I thought I should pull that out and actually use it. As I did so it fell apart in my hands. It had been deteriorating in the cupboard, yet I'd probably only used it a handful of times in the at least 10 to 15 years that I owned it. I had a similar situation with a pair of shoes I saved for fancy occasions. And I even think about how I've seen people quote, keep the good luggage at the back of a storeroom only to find that when the finally arrives, it's covered in mold. I could go on about how sometimes when we save things for a rainy day, either the rainy day never comes or when it finally does come, we either forget we have the item already, or worse, the item has deteriorated and is no longer usable. And in these scenarios, nobody gets to use the item. It never fulfilled its purpose and existed only to take up space for years, use it or lose it, or give it away and let someone else use it and let the item fulfill its purpose.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I mean, I could not agree more. And that's something that I wrote about in outer order, inner calm, that by saving things, we're actually wasting them. Often we're not preserving them, we're just squandering them. So I absolutely agree.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And I love the idea of letting an item fulfill its purpose. Yes, very poetic.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Let it fulfill its destiny. And now for Ask us Anything, Part 2. Elizabeth these are just endlessly fun to think about. So I'm glad to get into it again.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, me too. Roya says, gretchen, do you go to the Met on a fixed schedule, same time every day, or just go whenever you feel like it?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I would love to go at the very same time every day, but my schedule just doesn't permit it. And so I go whenever I can fit it in. The Met is also closed on Wednesdays, but it stays open late on Friday and Saturday. And if I can, I do like to go late because it's a completely different vibe if I can go in the evening. So I really am just fitting it into my day. And it's sort of fun because it feels different first thing in the morning. It feels different if you go right before closing time. It's kind of fun when the guards start herding people out the door. So no, I just go when it works for my day. And then we have three questions about sort of the experience we have living either in New York City or Los Angeles because of course, we grew up in Kansas City. So we grew up in a place that was very different but kind of equidistant from where we live now.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Lisa says, what decisions led to you both leaving KC for New York slash Louisiana? If you can share, which part of KC did you live in? I lived in KC for several years, living a block from Loose Park. Also, I'm from Nebraska, currently living in central Nebraska, one and a half hours from North Platte. Gretch, we should say our parents grew up in North Platte, Nebraska, and We went there every summer to visit our grandparents.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Both sets of grandparents. Well, we also lived about a block from Luce park for many years.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We grew up in, I guess, more or less the Plaza district. For a while, we lived right on State Line, which is when you're a kid. That's super exciting. You're like, now I'm in Missouri, now I'm in Kansas. There literally is a street called State Line, and it is the dividing line. I love to go to college. And then I just sort of ended up staying in the Northeast ever since. I mean, well, I moved to D.C. and then I just stayed more or less on the Eastern Seaboard.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And, you know, Mom, I think, really instilled a love of New York from a young age. Because she loves New York.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So I went to college in New York. I went to Columbia, and then I would have stayed, except I decided I wanted to be a TV writer. And really, if you want to be a TV writer, at least then you had to be in Los Angeles. Could be a little different now with Zoom, but definitely is the hub.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And it was hard for you to leave New York, and it was sad because we missed by four months. Like, I moved back to New York four months after you had left. So we never actually lived in New York City at the same time. Even though you lived there for several years, but now you are a committed LA person, which is so interesting to me because for a long time, you're sort of. Your heart was in New York City, but now your heart is in la.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, it is. But I still love New York and Kansas City and North Platte.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Well, related. Megan says, famously, New York and Los Angeles have a bit of rivalry and very distinct energies. New York is the city that never sleeps. LA is more laid back, et cetera. Do you feel like your personalities match well with your chosen cities? Could you ever live in the other city? Interesting. Well, one thing that's hard for both of us, Elizabeth, is we both really don't like driving. And so I have the better of that deal, I would say, of the two of us, for sure.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I love New York City's energy. I kind of can't imagine living in Los Angeles. I don't know, Elizabeth, but I could definitely picture you living in New York. Do you think you could picture me living in Los Angeles?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I think you could live in Los Angeles. Absolutely. I would love to live in New York. I'd love to live both places.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ideally have a double life.

[Elizabeth Craft]

But I will say I don't think of LA as being laid back at all.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I think of LA as being extremely sort of aggressive.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ambitious.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Ambitious. Striving, cutthroat elbows, you know, knocking. To me, my LA is not laid back. Although it does close earlier. Absolutely. New York, you can go out at 11:30 and go to dinner. Not so in LA.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. Well, California is a big state and you have a lot of different places that have different energies and you're in a very particular part about the industry. You're in the. What's the phrase for it?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Industry town.

[Gretchen Rubin]

The industry town. Yeah, right, exactly. Claire said, Gretchen, did you like raising your family in New York City? I'm from the suburbs but have two kids in New York City. I loved raising my children in New York City. Now, I will say I don't have super sporty kids and I think if you have kids who like, want to play football all the time or something or are extremely rambunctious, maybe the smaller apartments, everything just has a smaller footprint. I mean, wow. I went to go visit Jack's school and I couldn't believe the ground. I was like, what is like the plantings and just how big the classrooms were and the hallways and gosh, Kansas City, when we visited our high school, this sort of plaza where people can just sit outside. I mean, it just made me realize sort of how cramped New York City is. But I loved it and both my daughters love New York City. And so I think it's different, but it's definitely. I experienced a very safe and very positive place to bring up children, for sure.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Bridget asks two part question. One, why is focusing on your own happiness valuable, important when bad things are happening in your community or the wider world? Two, how can I support my happiness when the weight of the world feels very heavy and sad? This is a pretty common question we get, Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It is. And so why is focusing on your own happiness important? Because often people will feel like it's maybe trivial or even self absorbed to worry about your own happiness when there's so much injustice and suffering in the world. But actually what research shows is that people who are happier are more interested in the problems of the world and they're more interested in the problems of other people. They're more likely to help, they're more likely to vote, they have healthier habits, they're better team members and better leaders. They're more likely to donate money or time to other people and to causes. And so to think that it's selfish for me to work on my own happiness. Well, you should be selfish, if only for selfless reasons. Because happier people are more likely to help. And that makes sense because when we're unhappy, it's easy to get preoccupied and defensive and just thinking about our own problems. Cause we're not very happy. And when we're happier, we have the emotional energy to turn outward and think about the problems of other people and the problems of the world. So it is valuable for the world for you to take care of your own happiness. And then the question is her second question, which is how can I support my happiness when the world feels very heavy and sad? And one thing is simply take care of your body because your physical experience is gonna color your emotional experience. So make sure that you get enough sleep, make sure that you get enough movement. Don't get yourself overwhelmed by doom scrolling or whatever. Just manage it on a very physical level because that will help you deal with bigger things. And then also we often say that action is the antidote to anxiety. And my husband Jamie, who's very civically engaged, always says to people, get involved. You will feel more optimistic if you are part of a solution. If you find a way to contribute, you will feel better and you will be playing your part. Do something that will help in whatever way is right for you. Like obviously people are very different in like how they would and could contribute. But when you feel like you're standing on the sidelines and can't do anything about it. So find a way for many people that can help.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Great advice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Kimberly asks, how do you select the books you read? Elizabeth and I share the same taste most of the time. But Gretchen, you seem to be all over the board with your book choices. Is that a conscious decision on your part or random? I just have very wide ranging tastes, so I just read what I feel like. But I like everything except mysteries, thrillers, cookbooks and horror.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, you like Stephen King, which is.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Horror, but I don't like the deep horror Stephen King. I like the more storytelling Stephen King. So like I really liked fairy tale, but I only read Carrie once and it scared me so much I never have looked at it again. Yes, or like I like the short stories in Four Seasons. I forget what it. It was made into the movie Stand by Me. Is it called Road? I don't remember but or like Shawshank Redemption, that kind of thing. Less horror. I love the Stand for instance, which I wouldn't. Well, maybe that's horror because it's world destruction, but kind of apocalyptic Anyway. Elizabeth, how about you? How would you describe your tastes and how do you get your ideas?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I get my ideas a lot from people I know I get ideas from. If I see a book mentioned a bunch of times, then it gets on my radar. I like to read the books that everybody's reading. You do the Women by Kristin Hannah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You wanna be part of the Zeitgeist?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, absolutely.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You give me suggestions or. Mom. My friend Mindy gives me a lot of book suggestions. So I just am always open, and then I just make a note of any book I hear about and then I'll go back and see if I'm going to read it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So I'm just always making note.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Of books. And then, of course, Sarah and I also recommend books a lot.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You do?

[Elizabeth Craft]

And our listeners recommend books. So there's a lot of sources.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

One of my favorite things to do, though, is like, one time, somehow I came upon an article that was like, the best books about New York city in the 1960s. Okay. This is a list for me that was like, seven books about the publishing industry in New York.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

50S and 60s.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So all sorts of ways. But you're more literary than I am. You read a lot of really literary fiction, and I read less.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But then I also read a lot of children's literature. I read a lot of.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You read everything, Gretch. You really do. You read more than anybody I know for sure. By a lot.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I would love to think that. Well, sort of related. Jean said, what is the purpose of your reviewing? Is it just for enjoyment or something else? Okay, so when I talk about review, because this is something that's been on my yearly list for many years because I finally cracked the code. So, no, reviewing is a kind of work reading. It's when I need to look at a book that's come into my hand. Either I ordered it or bought it in a bookstore because it looked promising, or better, I got it from the library and I need to just sit down with it for, like, a time and review it and see is this a book that. Oh, in the end, it's not really what I'd hoped it would be. Or maybe there's just one chapter that I need to read to answer a certain question. Or maybe it's worthwhile reading the whole thing. Or maybe I don't need to read it closely, but I can skim it. But I need to sort of intellectually grapple with the book. This is very demanding and kind of boring because if this was a book that I was truly interested in, I would just pick it up and read it. So these are books where I'm like, ugh, man, is that a book that I really ought to read? And then sometimes, of course, I'm pleasantly surprised and they're great, but sometimes it's kind of like I sort of have to pick my way through something really boring to see if there's some kernel that I really need. And so this is why trying to do it for 20 minutes a day every day, which for me, I often do better doing something every day. It didn't really work because 20 minutes wasn't really long enough for that. So now I'm doing it longer, but less often. I only do review on the weekends, and that's helped me be much more efficient in getting through my piles. So my shelves and shelves and shelves of tubular read books has shrunk. So I'm feeling very proud about that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, good. Gold star, Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, Gretch. Coming up, I answer a question about how my new substack is going. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Elizabeth, I don't know about you, but after the holidays, I just had this real urge to declutter and organize. I just wanted to tidy up and clear out. And so from Wayfair, there were so many things that I looked at that looked useful. In the end, I got a couple of lazy Susans because I'm a huge fan of them. I think that they are such a great tool. I got an excellent set of drawers that fit on a desktop that helped me get organized with supplies. I got a beautiful box for organizing and it was so easy, like, delivery was free, fast, hassle free. I found exactly what I wanted to kind of have that organizational fresh step for the new year.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. There's something for every style in every home. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your new Year's home goals. Give your home the refresh it needs with Wayfair. Head to Wayfair.com right now. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, Every Home.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This new year, why not let Audible expand your life by listening? Explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you. Just open the app and tap into your well being with advice and insight from leading influencers, experts and professionals. Whatever your focus or interest, there's a listen for it on Audible. You'll find titles on better health including personal fitness, nutrition and relaxation.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, Gretch, I am all about Audible. I cannot get enough audiobooks. Right now I'm listening to Colored Television by Danzi Senna and I am obsessed with it. Plus, on Audible, you can find insight and expert advice on health, relationships, career, finance, so much more. Start listening today. Sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com/happier.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. Elizabeth sun asks Liz, how is the new substack going? How can I join if I want to? Well, thank you, son. I'm sure Elizabeth and Sarah appreciate that question. Elizabeth, tell us, how can we join your new substack? Which is hilarious, I have to say. I get a big kick out of it and it's very useful. It's full of information too.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, thank you. Well, to join the substack, I think the easiest thing to do is go to happierinhollywood.com and if you just scroll down, there's a box that says join the party. Put in your email address, subscribe, and that's it. Very easy. Free weekly newsletter and other stuff. It is going so well, Gretchen. What Sarah and I have discovered, my co host of Happier in Hollywood, is that we love writing for Substack. It's just a fun type of writing that we haven't done a lot of in recent years because we're either talking on the podcast or we're writing scripts or outlines. And this is more of like a short little essay, I guess you'd call it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Uh huh.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And what I find is, which we all know but have to learn over and over again, is when I write more, I write more. And in writing the substack, I'm actually having an easier time writing everything else interesting because it's every week that it must be written. And so because in television writing, there's a lot of time where we're not writing, where we're talking or waiting, doing other things. A lot of waiting or having meetings.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We need notes. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Whereas this is this constant flow of writing and so it's making all of my writing better and easier. So I'm absolutely thrilled with substack. I love it and I think it's going to help us just creatively in general. And it's that everyday creativity.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And now, Gretch, you know, I'm identifying as a content creator. So, okay, got to create that content.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Got to keep that content coming. But it's also funny, I remember when we started this podcast, our mother was like, said very gently, like, well, don't you two think you might run out of ideas in, like, six months.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And we said, no, we don't really. We're not that worried about that. And I think the more ideas you have, the more ideas you have. It is one of these things. I think one of my secrets of adulthood is pouring out creativity is better than doling it out by the teaspoon. And there is something it just generates.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It does.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is also a good example of something very counterintuitive, which is that sometimes when we're really busy, we think, I need to lighten my load. But actually adding something, the right kind of thing can make you feel more energized and, like, more excited about continuing. And you have to know what that is and make the right choice. But it is interesting to me that sometimes people get more energy from doing more than from doing less.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Absolutely. Okay. Gretch. Linda says, gretchen, did you wait six years between your daughters on purpose, or did life just happen?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, Jamie and I had planned on a longer gap maybe than a lot of people, just because Elizabeth and I are, you know, you and I are five years apart. And that felt great and really normal to us. Also, what happened is, as I've said many, many times, science miraculously led to the cure for hepatitis C that Jamie got from a blood transfusion during a heart operation he got when he was 8 years old. But before the FDA approved a treatment which worked so well, he participated in some clinical trials because he really.

[Elizabeth Craft]

He.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We were very, very worried about his liver. So we were just like, if there was an opportunity to take a chance, we would take that chance. And during that time, it was recommended that we not try. Did I not try to get pregnant? Because it was risky. And so that meant that we had to wait longer than probably we would ordinarily have done it. But in our case, it's worked out great. I think there's. I'm a fan of the Big Gap people for whom it works. It works.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And they are so close to each other now.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They are. They are. They are. Linda asks, have you figured out Eliza's tendency yet? That's my older daughter, yes. Eliza is a questioner.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And Eleanor's an upholder.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right, And Eleanor's an upholder. Yep.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Daniel said, elizabeth, you've mentioned loving reality tv. Which shows do you watch with Adam versus Saving for solo viewing?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ooh, interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, most of it's solo, because I do love reality TV more than my family. So alone, I do all the Housewives and the Bachelor, but with Adam and Jack, I watch Naked and Afraid and Survivor I got them in on that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. Tommy says an update on Elizabeth's house and the fires. How is her local community doing and what can we do to help out at this point in time? What a nice question.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you, Tommy. My house didn't have any damage or anything. We evacuated, but our neighborhood was completely safe ultimately. Thank goodness. Thank you to everybody for fighting those fires. My local community is doing well, but of course, there are so many people in LA who lost their homes, who lost everything, businesses. So it's going to be years of grappling with this. And I would always say, if you want to help out, you can always give to the Red Cross, because then you know that your money is going to a good cause.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. Cynthia says Gretchen is getting into watercolor. Has Liz ever tried a visual art, played music, or had any other creative pursuits outside of writing?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Gretch?

[Gretchen Rubin]

No.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I mean, unless. Unless you call my sticker collection some sort of visual art. I would say absolutely not.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But what about your tablescapes and your decorations? I think that that is a way that you are finding a visual expression of creativity because you've been sort of getting into that more and more.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, but, I mean, they're pretty simple, but. Okay, we'll take it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Tablescapes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Jay said, is it because of Elizabeth that you want to have two dogs, Gretchen? Because having two dogs made her surprisingly happier. Yes, good question.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I was so astonished that Alyssa's got two dogs that I was like, wow, maybe I could have two dogs because, you know, we're both so unlikely. So. Yeah, absolutely. That was a big inspiration. We have not completely committed to the puppy, but I would say we are inching ever closer to getting a puppy.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, let me just tell you, if you do get a second dog, a key is when you're walking them, to have, like, a leash that has two leads on it as opposed to two separate leashes. It will make your life so much easier.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. There's so much to learn about how the two ness of it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And if one is 10 years old and one is a puppy, then obviously they're like. Your dogs are like six months apart. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna have to do a lot of inquiry into that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Adam said, gretchen, I recently learned that in 2010, the Happiness Project was almost turned to a TV show starring sex and the City's Kristin Davis playing you, Wilde. How do you think your life could have changed if the show went to air?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, you know what? Yes. That was very heartbreaking. There was, like A clean house and a new broom sweeps clean. And this project was just like, okay, that's part of the old guard. We're moving on. But you know, Elizabeth, I have to say I never trusted in it because I know from you how hard it is and how unlikely it is to get a show in the air. So I think that I wasn't as disappointed as a person might have expected, or even as much as I might have expected when I was younger and hadn't seen what you go through. I don't even know. I mean, to have Kristin Davis playing me would be so strange and uncanny. And having a TV show on the air, it would have been amazing. I don't even think about it because it's just. It's a sliding door that didn't happen. So I don't know.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, and even after it gets on Gretch, then there's like an over 90% chance that it only lasts a season. So there's many hurdles. But, you know, it would have been amazing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It would have been amazing. But, you know, we never know what's good news and bad news, so maybe, you know. Oh, and this question is from Elizabeth. Name three actors you'd love to manifest working with in a future TV series who you haven't worked with before. Interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, yeah. Well, first on my list right now is Bridget Everett. Just because I love somebody somewhere so much, which is her show on Max.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We just finished the season.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I adore her. And a male actor. I'm gonna go with Brad Pitt. Why not?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. And then what about the third?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And Gretch for a third. I'm gonna say Dolly Parton. Because, you know, I love Dolly. Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

If you're just manifesting. Manifest it. Yes, yes. China says you both love old fashioned institutions. Libraries, Diners Department stores. What's an experience or place from childhood that you wish still existed the way it did back then? Oh, I know exactly what I'm gonna answer.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I think I know what you're gonna answer. Can I guess?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, guess.

[Elizabeth Craft]

The library.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

The Plaza Library in Kansas City. That's mine too.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Because this library had this two story high clear tube of a fountain of just water bubbling up and pouring over the edges and surrounded by kind of like scrawny ferns. It had this very particular smell. It was sort of magical. I remember the smell of it. The squeak of the linoleum, the mural on the wall on the top floor. You go downstairs to children's. I mean. Oh, yes, I would love to go back there.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And then I would also say Gretchen, Halls on the Plaza. There's a department store called Halls on the Plaza by the Hall Family. Or Swansons and Swansons, but Halls even more so.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Even more so.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It was such an extension of us. Yes, it still exists in Crown center, which is another part of Kansas City. But Halls on the Plaza I'll miss for the rest of my life.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We do go to the halls in Crown center every time we're in Kansas City. So we still tap into that halls magic.

[Elizabeth Craft]

But it's not the same.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's not the same. It's not the same.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Lindsay says, what are all the jobs you've ever had? Especially curious to hear about high school jobs.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, listen, you go first.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I was a hostess at Mario's on the Plaza, my friend's restaurant, the Scaglia's Restaurant. I was what you call a soda jerk at Lucille's 24 Hour Diner. Made milkshakes. I sold snacks at the snack shop. A couple of different places. And then, you know, moving on. I was an editor. But oh, another job I had, I think for four hours, Gretch, in college was at Amy's Falafel Shop on Broadway. The owner yelled at me and I was like, okay, I can't handle this. And I just walked out at lunch, which is so un. Melissa.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So on you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

But I did it. So there are others. But, you know, that's some. I was a house cleaner, babysitter, many things. What about you?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Babysitter mowed the lawn for her family. I spent many an hour doing that. Made good money. I was a waitress. I was a temp a lot. Once I was in college, I would temp a lot. I am a master typist, so I really enjoyed temping. I was a load management asphalt operator one year. I like, I operated sort of the computer that would fill trucks with asphalt. That was an amazing, amazing experience. That was right before my senior year in high school. Yeah. And then afterward I worked at the Federal Communications Commission. I was the summer associate at a law firm.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, we've had a lot of jobs.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We've had a lot of jobs.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we have another question about my television watching. But first this break. Dell Technologies is celebrating with anniversary savings on their most popular tech for limited time only, save on select next gen PCs like the XPS 16, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors and more. Unleash more possibilities with cutting edge systems, our most advanced features and great prices. Plus curate your dream setup with deals on select monitors, mice and more. Must have electronics and accessories.

[Gretchen Rubin]

When you shop [e-mail] deals you'll have access to state of the art technology to match your forward thinking spirit and free shipping on everything. Anniversary savings await you for a limited time [e-mail] deals that's dell.com deals.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Do you want to set your child up for success? IXL Learning is an online learning program for kids. It covers math, language arts, science and social studies. IXL is designed to help them really understand and master topics in a fun way with positive feedback. Gretch As a student Eleanor really struggled with math when she was younger and IXL would have been so helpful to her.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, if she had been able to do online learning at home, she would have been much better able to keep up with class and that would have made the whole situation easier for her. Don't miss out. One in four students in the US are learning with IXL. IXL is used in 95 of the top 100 school districts in the US.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and happier with Gretchen Rubin. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixcel.com happier visit ixl.com happier to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, Elizabeth David asks Elizabeth, what are personally your favorite TV shows and what are the TV shows that you admire the most as a TV writer for their writing, production, et cetera? I'm curious to see if these two categories overlap. What an interesting question.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That is an interesting question. Well, my favorite show of all time, I've said many times, is Mad Men.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Which you turned me on to after working on me for decades.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Another favorite show I have is Transparent from Amazon, starring Geoffrey Tambor, of course, Girls from Lena Dunham. I've mentioned somebody somewhere as a current favorite. Game of Thrones, Sopranos, the Shield, which is a show I actually got to work on, one of my favorite all time shows. You know, it's an interesting question. Like Game of Thrones for instance. Obviously I admire not just because I love the characters and the story, but the production value was amazing. But yeah, all shows that I love, I think if you love them, you love their production. So I do think there's always a crossover. I mean Transparent, for instance, I love because it really captures la like what LA looks like, the different neighborhoods. The Shield I love the look of because it really was groundbreaking and that it was all almost all handheld cameras and natural lighting which really wasn't done back then. It allowed us to shoot in seven days, which is a unheard of. So those are some of my favorites. I'm sure there are many more I'm not thinking of.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So it's sort of like you love it. Totally.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Yes. But Game of Thrones stands out.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. That was a high bar, for sure.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Yes. Okay. Sylvie asks, how is War and Peace going?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. We're both doing Simon Hazel's slow read of War and Peace, where you read a chapter of War and Peace every day in 2025. His substack is called Footnotes and Tangents. You and I are doing it. Our husbands are doing it. Our parents are doing it. Our family is so deep on one piece. And I am loving it. What do you think, Elizabeth?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I love it. I took your advice and I'm now reading it and then also listening to it, which I think is great. And my favorite part of the whole thing is listening every week to Simon's talk about that week's reading. That is hands down my favorite part. Jack likes listening to it on the way to school, and he's not even reading the book. He just enjoys Simon's description of the book.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, you know what? I always think that a great indication of something is, would you want the same thing to be longer? Like, would you like an episode of Game of Thrones to be longer? Yes, I would. You know, not that you still want it to be edited very tightly, but you're like, at this level of quality, would I keep consuming it? And if it was four times as long, I think each week with Simon Hazel's commentary, I would be listening to it because I find it so fascinating. I'm always disappointed when I listen to it as a podcast.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Same.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm always disappointed when it's over because I'm like, oh, gosh, just keep going. It's so interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And I do think the accountability of this whole thing and the fact that we're doing it on the podcast or talking about on the podcast is very helpful because, you know, every single day is a. Is a major habit to keep.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And it's very helpful to me that I'm tracking this and accountable.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then every week he says we just read these, and then next week we're reading these, and you're sort of like, okay, you know exactly where you are and you can get caught up before you get too far off track, if need be.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Chrissy said. Do you ever feel like you just don't want to think about happiness habits or the tendencies for a while? Like, do you ever Suffer from advice fatigue ever? Well, I don't really think that I give advice that much. I certainly opine all the time. I give myself a lot of advice and I have to say I am just endlessly interested in these subjects. I feel like I can talk about happiness and good habits all day long and then what do I do for fun? Like I want to talk about it some more. So I don't feel tired of it now. Elizabeth, you may feel tired of it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Well, first of all, I do think you give a lot of advice, good advice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I guess it's like, oh, can I be a happiness bully? I guess I do. Yes, probably. I do give more advice than I.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. There are moments when I tire of it briefly and I just want to be like, I don't care about my clutter. But overall, because it's really about human nature and I love human nature. So that's why I think it's endlessly fascinating because it's really about people.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Why do we do the things that we do? How are people different from each other? How do we change if we want to change? Yeah. Christina says this year I want to dive into my senses more. So I got the Five Senses journal. Oh, thank you, Christina. And though I've just barely started it, I'm already in love and want to give it to others. That being said, I travel a lot and I'm wondering, would you ever make a smaller, more travel size friendly version? I love the big book and space for at home because I think it does get you to focus. But I just got back from a three month trip to Europe and wish I'd had this or something like it to really capture my experience and memories in a more interesting and unique way. That is a great idea, Christina.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That is.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I had not thought of people using the journal in this way. I have to say this is. And I can exactly see why somebody who really wouldn't do this as part of ordinary life might really think, okay, I really want to capture this, my semester abroad or I'm going to go stay with my sister in Portugal for a month or whatever and. Or, you know, we're going on this trip for our honeymoon and really want to capture that. And so that is a very good idea and I would definitely consider it. So thank you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I'm going to look for that in the shop. Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Go to happiercast.com shop and you can see the journal she's talking about and a lot of other stuff. This is an interesting question. Cheryl says Elizabeth do you use any tools to keep track of characters in the novel you're writing?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I do. Sarah and I are using a program called Dabble Writer, and the reason we're using it is for exactly this reason, so we can keep track of stuff. So it's got a section for characters, so it has, you know, main characters. So each character has her own card or his own card, and then sub characters. It also has a section for the outline. Lots of different things. So. Yes, because you forget what color is someone's hair. Wait, how old did we say this person is? Where did they go to school? Wait, what's their husband's name? Wait, are they, you know, do they have kids? So all those details, it's super helpful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Don't I remember that not early on, but not terribly far on. You changed the name of a major character and you were saying that it was surprisingly difficult.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh yes, four major characters. We changed all their names at the the same time. It was mayhem for like a month. We just had no idea who was who. Yeah, it was pretty funny. Vanessa said, I'm curious how you select places for your upcoming book tour. Please include Boston. I am a manager in local government and want to share how many peers are selecting a Word of the year and have their 25 and 25 list in process.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, Vanessa, I am coming your way, so watch out for that. We're still nailing down all of the tour dates, but I'm very excited. I'll be traveling to a lot of different cities and Asia and the way that we do it is my publisher works with different bookstores and organizations and first of all, who's interested in having me come? And I thank you very much if I'm coming to you. And then we look at places where I've been before because, oh, if I was just there, maybe people are tired of me or I've never been to a place so that would be really exciting. Usually try to go to Kansas City just because I love my hometown and so really want to go there. And of course Rainy Day Books is a major indie bookstore that I love so much in kc so it's a process, but I love it. I love getting a chance to meet with people and to get out there and so I will be able to share the tour schedule, I think very soon in April. And I really hope that people will come because it's definitely something that I really look forward to as part of the publishing process. Myra asks Elizabeth, what mahjong games do you play to practice? What style of Mahjong. Do you play? Have you formed mahjong groups? And did you find people or teach people? People.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay. So I play both American mahjong and Chinese mahjong. American has a card and Chinese does not to practice. I really only practice American right now. That's the one with the card. And I use an app called Real Mahjong. You do have to pay for it, but it's very worth it to me because I use it all the time. But no, you have to have your own card for it. But it's very easy to sort of play with it. I think it's really close to playing an actual game, so I really recommend it. I still have my kind of ever changing, forming and reforming mahjong groups. I am not good enough to teach. I don't know if I ever will be. So I have to find people. I actually, what I'd love to do is get a mahjong teacher to come in if I had a group that was new and really committed. The problem is getting people to commit. You know, in Los Angeles, geography is against us and I really need a group close by. But anyway, I really recommend real Mah Jong for anybody who wants to practice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Great.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right. And finally, Gretchen. Danny says, Gretchen, why did you choose Sandra Day O'Connor as a supreme Court justice to clerk for rather than some other justice?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ah, well. Interesting. Well, she offered me the job, so that was very important to me. Justice O'Connor was well known for wanting to go early. She was one of the first justices each season who would choose her clerks. Interesting. It was very important to Justice O'Connor that you apply to all the justices. She wanted a clerk who would feel comfortable serving all of the justices on the Supreme Court. And she would ask you that, did you apply to all the justices or Justice Some. So I just think that's interesting. Kind of a funny side note, I would say, in the course of my life, there have been like five letters that I was really waiting for that went astray. Like one time I was waiting for my renewed driver's license and it didn't come. And it didn't come. And you're like, oh, my gosh, why did that have to go missing? And my letter offering me the position from Justice O'Connor, I didn't get it. And then I got this message. Justice Oconnors office called, you know, call her back. And this was Friday afternoon, so I couldn't call her back till Monday morning. And I was just her chambers and I was just in agony. So I call her chambers. And she gets on the phone and she's like, gretchen, why didn't you answer my letter? Because of course she knew that I would. There was no question in her mind what I would say, but I had not responded. And I was like, justice, I didn't get a letter. So then she did it. And I never got that letter. And actually, when I got to her chambers and was clerking there, I went to her assistant and I was like, I really would love a copy of that letter. If you have it in the files. I would just love it for my files. And so she'd very nicely made me a copy of the copy so that I do have a copy of in her handwriting. But it's just funny that this job opportunity that I was waiting for, so it all ended up well. So that was fun.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That happened to a friend of mine with grad school and the grad school chased him down like six weeks later. And they were like, I don't know.

[Gretchen Rubin]

How I got so much junk mail. That comes straight to me. What are the chances? The Resource for this week we have a new quiz for read 25 and 25. This is super fun. It's called Fall in Love with youh Next Novel. It is helping you to find that next novel that's exactly what you're looking for. We've partnered with bookshop.org to help you figure it out. You just answer four questions and then it creates. It's very funny. It's like in the form of a personal ad, looking for what you're looking for to suit your mood and taste. And then you'll get some recommendations that will be just what you're looking for. You can find [e-mail] next novel and you might have a chance to get your your next book on us through the end of February 2025. If you post your result on social media with the hashtag fallinlovewithreading, you get a chance to win a $25 [e-mail] and of course, bookshop.org is the online sales place for indie bookstores. And speaking of what we're reading and finding the perfect book, Elizabeth, what are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Fruit of the Dead by Rachel Lyon.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm just about to start the Many Lives of Anne Frank by Ruth Franklin. And that's it for this episode of Happier. We hope you enjoyed this second part of Ask Us Anything.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Here's your rhyming reminder. If you like this show, tell others. You know, it's really true. Word of mouth is the thing that gets. Gets people to listen, read, watch all of it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So, Gretch, mom and dad are there?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Dad and I went for a long walk this morning. Yeah, we're gonna see Eliza tomorrow night. It's so much fun.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I can't wait to join.

[Gretchen Rubin]

From the onward project.