Ep. 526: The Rule of More, a Fun Way to Clear Family Clutter & More Secrets of Adulthood

Summary

Episode Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin – Ep. 526: The Rule of More, a Fun Way to Clear Family Clutter & More Secrets of Adulthood

In Episode 526 of Happier with Gretchen Rubin, Gretchen Rubin and her cohost, Elizabeth Craft, delve into the intriguing concept dubbed the "Rule of More," share practical strategies for managing family clutter, and present a rich collection of "Secrets of Adulthood" contributed by their listeners. This episode, released on March 19, 2025, offers a blend of thoughtful insights, actionable advice, and relatable anecdotes to help listeners enhance their happiness and navigate the complexities of adult life.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

Gretchen Rubin opens the episode by introducing the main topics: the Rule of More and a plethora of listeners' Secrets of Adulthood. She also announces her upcoming book tour, encouraging listeners to pre-order her latest work to support its success. Elizabeth Craft adds a personal touch, expressing gratitude for the listeners' contributions and setting a collaborative tone for the discussion.

Notable Quote:
Gretchen Rubin [01:12]: "This week we'll talk about a phenomenon that I've decided to call the Rule of More. And we'll share lots of secrets of adulthood from listeners."

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2. Exploring the Rule of More

The crux of the episode centers on the Rule of More—a concept that suggests increasing an activity leads to a greater propensity to continue that activity. Gretchen explains this phenomenon through various examples, highlighting both positive and negative implications.

Key Points:

• Positive Aspects:
  Activities like writing and reading become more ingrained and habitual with increased engagement. For instance, Elizabeth notes, “The more I write, the more I write,” which aligns with Gretchen’s observation that consistent practice makes these activities easier and more rewarding ([03:00], [04:55]).

• Negative Aspects:
  Conversely, habits like doom scrolling or excessive snacking can become more entrenched and harder to break the more one engages in them. Gretchen draws parallels with urban planning, citing Robert Moses's strategy of building more roads, which inadvertently led to increased traffic due to induced demand ([04:44]).

• Biological Insights:
  Gretchen discusses how habits like sleep and exercise follow the Rule of More, where regular engagement leads to better outcomes and a desire to continue these positive habits ([06:06], [07:07]).

Notable Quotes:
Elizabeth Craft [03:00]: "The more I write, the more I write, the more I do it, the easier it is to do it."
Gretchen Rubin [04:55]: "It's induced demand, because then you go through books faster, so then you need another book..."

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3. Happiness Hack: Family 15 Cleaning Technique

Transitioning to practical advice, Gretchen introduces a listener-submitted Happiness Hack called "Family 15." Teresa shares her strategy for managing household clutter by dedicating 15 minutes, four times a week, for the entire family to clean together.

Key Points:

• Structured Cleaning Time:
  A timer is set for 15 minutes during which each family member tackles a specific area, making the task manageable and less overwhelming ([11:46]).

• Benefits:
  This method fosters teamwork, reduces weekend cleaning stress, and makes the process more enjoyable for children by framing it as a collective activity rather than individual chores.

Notable Quote:
Teresa [11:46]: "Perfection is not achieved in 15 minutes, but it's amazing how much better everything looks after that short time."

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4. Listener Roundup: Secrets of Adulthood

Gretchen and Elizabeth enthusiastically share a compilation of "Secrets of Adulthood" submitted by their listeners. These insights range from timeless proverbs to personal life lessons, offering a diverse array of wisdom.

Selected Secrets:

• Sally: "You can't fix other people."
• Melanie: "If you have to do something every day or regularly, find a way to enjoy it."
• Elizabeth: "What you put in is what you get out."
• Miranda: "It's rarely worth correcting someone."
• Jennifer: "Always take the high road. There's less traffic there."
• Catherine: "It's easier to keep up than catch up."
• Marlene: "Everything is a lesson."
• Cable: "People show you how they like to be treated by how they treat you."

Key Insights:

• Personal Growth:
  Emphasizing the importance of personal responsibility and finding joy in daily tasks.

• Interpersonal Relationships:
  Highlighting effective communication and the value of taking the high road to minimize conflict.

Notable Quote:
Gretchen Rubin [15:26]: "Hebrews 1508 says, not my circus, not my monkeys. Love this phrase for so many situations."

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5. Listener Question: Adapting to Office Life

Beth, a recently retired teacher transitioning into an office environment, seeks advice on cultivating good habits and avoiding pitfalls in her new role. Gretchen and Elizabeth provide thoughtful recommendations to ensure a smooth adaptation.

Advice Provided:

• Establishing New Habits:
  "Start the way you want to begin. So if you want to go for a walk every day at lunch, do that right away" ([26:17]).

• Building Connections:
  Share personal interests to foster relationships, such as discussing favorite TV shows or pets.

• Maintaining Professionalism:
  Keep noise levels respectful and be mindful of others' workspace boundaries to prevent conflicts ([27:14]).

• Food Etiquette:
  Bring your own snacks to avoid disrupting office dynamics, but also gauge the office culture before introducing communal treats ([29:25]).

Notable Quote:
Gretchen Rubin [26:17]: "Start the way you want to begin. So if you want to go for a walk every day at lunch, do that right away."

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6. Demerits and Gold Stars

In this segment, Gretchen and Elizabeth share personal anecdotes highlighting areas for improvement and commendations.

• Elizabeth's Demerit:
  Wearing bad socks during dog walks, leading to discomfort and disruption ([29:47]).

• Gretchen's Gold Star:
  Kudos to book jacket designers for their creative and impactful work, which significantly influences book sales and reader engagement ([31:52]).

Notable Quotes:
Elizabeth Craft [29:47]: "I need to transition out of those socks. I'm the kind of person, like you, that never throws away an old T-shirt."
Gretchen Rubin [31:52]: "Gold star to the designers of book jackets."

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7. Resources and Reading Updates

Gretchen promotes her guide to favorite organizational products available on her website, aiding listeners in their spring cleaning endeavors ([33:53]). Both hosts also share their current reading selections:

• Elizabeth Craft: "Say Everything," a memoir by Ione Sky.
• Gretchen Rubin: "Orbital," by Samantha Harvey.

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8. Conclusion

Gretchen and Elizabeth wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to apply the Rule of More in their lives and share their experiences. They express gratitude to their contributors and remind listeners to engage with their content through ratings, reviews, and social media.

Final Notable Quote:
Gretchen Rubin [34:11]: "Remember to try this at home. Consider the rule of More. Let us know if you've tried it and if it worked for you."

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Overall, Episode 526 offers a balanced mix of theoretical concepts and practical advice, empowering listeners to harness the Rule of More for positive habit formation while providing tools to mitigate its negative effects. The heartfelt interactions and community-driven content make this episode a valuable resource for anyone seeking to enhance their happiness and navigate adult responsibilities with greater ease.

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

Guess what? Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard right, 99%. If you don't think so, maybe it's time to face facts. You're stuck in the past. Based on the February 2024 Nelson Report. Learn more at discover.com credit card Gretchen.

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

They've also got high flying ropes courses, miniature golf, climbing walls, mini bowling, virtual reality rooms, and a massive arcade. That's just some of the things that everybody in the whole family can do. So bring your pack together and wolf out. Learn [e-mail] greatwolf.com book now and strengthen your pack at Great Wolf Lodge.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Lemonade.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ideas and strategies for making our lives happier, healthier, more productive and more creative. This week we'll talk about a phenomenon that I've decided to call the Rule of More. And we'll share lots of secrets of adulthood from listeners. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature, secrets of adulthood. I'm in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft, who has infinite interest in secrets of adulthood.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch can't get enough of those. Thank you to all the listeners for giving us their secrets of adulthood. We need them.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Absolutely. Before we lunch in, I want to remind everybody I am going to go on a tour in April. I am so excited. Starting April 1, 2025. You can find tour details, pre order information and more about the [e-mail] Secrets I'm going to a bunch of places. Washington, DC, Boston, Lexington, Kentucky, Bloomington, Tulsa, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, New York City, Kansas City, of course, my hometown. And as always, if you pre order that is a huge help. Pre orders really do matter a tremendous amount for a book. And so if you're inclined to buy the book, pre ordering really does make a difference.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I pre ordered mine. As you know.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And Elizabeth, you and I both know to pre order anytime there's a book that we want.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It's a great way to support the author.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's a great way to support the other. So this week the try this at home suggestion is something, it's sort of a phrase that I've come up with. And the try this at home suggestion is to consider The Rule of More.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. So, Gretch, what is the Rule of More?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, Elizabeth, in a way, you inspired the Rule of More because something you said connected in my mind to one of my Secrets of Adulthood in my Secrets of Adulthood book. And you said, the more I write, the more I write. So explain a little bit about that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And by the way, I'm sure I'm not the first person who said this, but it sounds something that I've just been thinking over and over lately, because I feel like since Sarah and I started our substack newsletter, where I'm writing a newsletter every week, I'm having an easier time writing other things. And so it just has been ringing in my mind that the more I write, the more I write, the more I do it, the easier it is to do it. So I've just been saying that a lot.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I was reminded of one of my Secrets of Adulthood and my Secret of Adulthood. It takes this different look at that phenomenon, because my secret of adulthood, more roads, more traffic. Now, this is kind of counterintuitive, right? And so what I explain in Secrets of Adulthood is as New York City grew, its traffic grew. So urban planner Robert Moses built more roads, but in a counterintuitive phenomenon called induced demand. As more roads were added, more people drove their cars, so the city's traffic got worse. This phenomenon is literally true. And it also suggests a deeper truth. Often when we give ourselves more of what we crave, we don't feel satisfied. We want even more. And so what I'm realizing is the rule of more works for the positive and the negative. So if what you want to do is write, the more you write, the more you write. But it could be also that the more you doom scroll, the more you doom scroll.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Well, on the positive side, it's definitely true for reading, right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

The more we read, the more we read, which is good for our hashtag. Read 25 and 25.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And many people have said that as they're making a point of reading more in 25, they're reading even more than 25 minutes. Because reading more leads to reading more.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right? And it's induced demand, because then you go through books faster, so then you need another book, and then you realize how good a book is, so you're racing through it. And so the more you do it, the more you do it, the more you read, the more you read, you know? And I'm reminded of a rule that I learned as a parent of young children, which is that, well, Rested children sleep better. Good sleep means more good sleep. And I remember somebody saying, like, well, listen, you might be tempted to think, well, I'll have my child skip a nap because I really want them to sleep very soundly tonight. But actually, that's not true. Children who aren't well rested don't sleep as well. And it's that well rested children sleep better. The more we sleep, the more we sleep. Same with exercise. We get used to it. Our bodies kind of accommodate it. And so if you're in the habit of regular exercise, you kind of want to be in the habit of regular exercise. You start getting fidgety and your body feels uncomfortable if you're not doing what you usually do. And so the more you exercise, the more you exercise. And as you say, it becomes more part of your routine. It gets easier in that way as well.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Well, Gretch, this is why you always say you like to do things every day.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I am an all or nothing kind of person. I'm an abstainer when it comes to strong temptation. And I do really love to do things. Every day I go to the Met every day I watercolor every day. I read the War and Peace every day. And I think that's why. It's because the more I do it, the more I do it, the more I watercolor, the more I watercolor, it just starts being part of what I do. But here's the thing. It's good to go to the Med. It's good to watercolor, it's good to read and write and read War and Peace, but it's also true for less desirable behavior. I think when we fall into bad practices, they can take over. Like, Elizabeth, I remember when you were going through your whole soul sucking app problem with games.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, definitely. The more Candy Crush I played, the more I played. Yeah, that is very true.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Induced demand.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And you talk about this with sugar. When I think a lot of. I mean, sugar actually has a physical reason why this is true.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, and again, I'm an abstainer, so just giving it up altogether seemed easier to me and has proved to be easier. And one of the reasons that I gave it up, when I first started years ago now, I noticed that the more I ate sugar, the more I wanted sugar. And I thought, well, maybe if I just gave it up, I would stop wanting it. And that is exactly what happened. It was the less I ate, the less I ate. And I just think that this is something that seems counterintuitive somehow. I think sometimes people feel like, well, I'LL get sated or I will have had enough. But then you're like, okay, well, what about the more you spend? The more you spend. I think a lot of times people, it grows on itself.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And as you said, there's a literal and a theoretical meaning to this. Like the more you spend, let's say the more you spend on a house, likely the more you're going to spend taking care of the house. In a literal sense.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. I have a secret of adulthood for that. It's something like more lawns, more mowing.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, exactly right. But then also maybe the more you spend, the more you feel like you want to have a certain lifestyle, the.

[Gretchen Rubin]

More you're just in the habit or you just are used to having that feeling and you crave that feeling of like, acquisition or, or I'll just get it now instead of worrying about putting it on my list or whatever. But anyway, this is just something because, you know, the secret of adulthood about Robert Moses tied in my mind with this observation that you were having the more you write, the more you write. Because it doesn't necessarily seem like something that would be true, but I feel like it is true. But this is just sort of like a new label I've slapped on it. So I'm really curious to hear from listeners. Does this ring true to you? Does this resonate with you? Do you feel like exactly the opposite is true? Because of course, the opposite of a profound truth is also true. So let us know if you do try this at home or ponder this and how applying the rule of more works for you. Especially, of course, you want to use it in the positive to get more of the things you want in your life. Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an [e-mail] or as always, you can go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com 526 for everything related to this episode.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we have a cleaning hack. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay Elizabeth the Happiness Hack this week it was perfectly timed because I had just been talking to a friend of mine who was very annoyed because he is a super kind of neat person and his wife and his two children do not share that same interest in maintaining clutter. And he was talking about how hard it was to badger everybody into doing it and he was always trying to point out, oh, it's just so much nicer and it doesn't take time and if everybody just put their things away. And then we got this email from Teresa which I thought had a really, really useful suggestion for him and I told him about it in a my happiness bully way. I challenged him to try it this weekend so I will see how it works for but let's hear how it worked for Theresa.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, she said. My husband and I both work full time and have two girls ages 8 and almost 5. I really struggle with feeling that I can't keep up with all of the clutter and cleaning that should be happening throughout the week, leaving me feeling overwhelmed and grouchy by the weekend. I do pay for house cleaning help every two weeks, so this isn't so much about deep cleaning than just getting things picked up. So I started what we call family 15. All four of us have to clean together for 15 minutes. We decide what each of us want to tackle and I set a timer for 15 minutes. When the timer goes off, we are done. Perfection is not achieved in 15 minutes, but it's amazing how much better everything looks after that short time. This has worked even better than expected with the kids. They seem to like that it's just a set amount of time and we are all doing work together rather than me just telling them to go clean their rooms. For example, we aim to do our family 15 routine four times a week. Even if we only accomplish three times, when you add it up, it's still three to four hours of time spent cleaning each week. It's been a real boost for me because I don't feel like it's all on my plate come Saturday morning to either tackle it myself or cajole my family into helping me. Great idea.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is a great idea. I wish I'd had this for my book, Outer Order Intercom, where I talk about things like the one minute rule. Because it's this idea that you can do these short bursts and get a lot more done than you think. But I love this idea that every. Everybody's doing it together because then you feel less resentment. Any one person isn't like, well, why am I doing this? Because we're all doing this together and it's kind of a fun family activity.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And I love that she's like, when the timer goes off, we're done.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So perfection isn't the goal. And I think that helps a lot because I think when you're doing that, it can feel like an endless task, but if you know it's going to end in 15 minutes, it's easier.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, and tidy areas tend to stay tidier and messy areas tend to get messier. And so as you're doing this regularly, it might be that things just stay tidier too.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But this reminds me of Jamie, because Jamie does have. He does like to have things very picked up. And he'll often say, like when things are get all kind of disordered, he'll say, let's have a quick tidy up. And that means everybody get on their feet and just tidy up. But we never did it with a timer or anything. But it is good where you're just like, nobody's doing anything big. But it's like, hang up your coat. If you've got a whole bunch of books out, put them away. Somebody load the dishwasher. There's dog toys everywhere. We always have, like, dog toys everywhere. It doesn't take any time to put them away. It makes a huge difference. But if you just leave them out, they'll just stay out.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Thank you, Teresa. Great idea.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm so curious to hear if my friend Mike, if it works for his family. So we'll hope. And now for a listener roundup. We got so many great secrets of adulthood. So we want to just blast through These to share as many as we can from listeners.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. These are so great.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So with Secrets of Adulthood, just reading through these, I think some of these are proverbs or pieces of folk wisdom that I've heard many times before in my book Secrets of Adulthood. They're all original, too. They're the way I phrase them. And so it's sort of like quotation by Gretchen Rubin. But here I think a lot of people were just passing along secrets of adulthood that they learned from wherever. And that's great because the secret of adulthood can come to us in many different ways in many different forms.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Sally says you can't fix other people.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So true. Melanie, if you have to do something every day or regularly, find a way to enjoy it. Good advice.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Elizabeth says, what you put in is what you get out. My dad used to say this all the time, and he was extremely right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hebrews 1508 says, not my circus, not my monkeys. Love this phrase for so many situations. If I remember correctly, I think that's a proverb from Poland. But many people like that proverb.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Meilin says, just because things could have been different doesn't mean they'd be better.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Mm. Michelle says, I never feel like doing the spin bike. Never. Usually glad halfway through and definitely after.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I relate to that. Liz says our family motto is always carry a book and a sweater.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Amanda says, always ride the carousel.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, that's whimsical. Laura says, don't attend every argument you are invited to.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Jennifer says, always take the high road. There's less traffic there.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's funny. Lucky says, everything in moderation. That's a very popular proverb.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But then for me, because I am such an all or nothing person, I say do nothing in excess. Not even moderation. Miranda says, it's rarely worth correcting someone. That is very interesting. I do have a strong urge to correct, I have to say, and that's very. It's rarely worth correcting someone.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Gil says, if it's not an immediate yes, it's a no.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Beautiful by design says, you can't have everything at the same time, but you can have everything in time. That's beautifully said.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Nana says, follow a routine, not your mood. Oh, that's for you, Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Better than before. My book about habit change. That is a major theme. Soon, as he says, always check for toilet paper before you sit down. This is a metaphor, and also not. That's true. It's good advice on both levels. Works on two levels.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Just said, you cannot be on top of all the things all the time.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Good to remember. Oh. Gelson says sleep begets sleep. This is the rule of more.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Kate says it's always better in the morning after a good night's rest. And you are the lead role in your own movie. Everyone else is starring in their own. That is so true. She says when you worry about something that hasn't happened, you worry twice. That's me. And then finally, the laundry will never, ever be done.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's good to remember. Some tasks are never done.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Liz says, I tell my students the secret to life is to practice something you want to get good at. Oh, that's like work worth doing.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Kate says, sometimes you make the right decision. Sometimes you must make the decision right. Never heard that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Marlene said, my secret of adulthood is everything is a lesson. I tell myself this message multiple times a day. That's a good way to reframe Everything is a lesson.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Charlie says a favorite is by Becky Higgins, who's a scrapbooker. She always says, cultivate a good life and record it. That's you, Gretch. What do you like to say? That you're a keeper of memories.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Treasure House of happy memories.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. She says, I love looking back at the scrapbooks I created for my kids. So many experiences and memories I have forgotten about. It creates a sense of joy in me to remember. I do dig digital scrapbooks now and am working on recording wisdom and stories. We never know when our last day is. I want to leave something behind for my kids. I even created a book of wisdom for them when I turned 50. Something for them to refer to if ever I'm not here and they face different situations in their lives and want motherly advice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this reminded me of my Secrets of Adulthood book. And that book actually has blank pages with lines at the end so that everybody can add their own secrets of adulthood. But it's interesting that she felt the same impulse, which is, boy, I've learned all these things the hard way. I really want to compile them and so that I can give them to somebody. If I can't be there in person, I still want them to have the benefit of everything I've learned.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Terry said, knowledge comes from books. Wisdom comes from experience. I like to use that with the college students I work with. It's good advice.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Leanne says, gmo, good enough, move on. Goes along with the Voltaire quote, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, which we say all the time.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I've never heard of Gimo. I like that. Janet says the saying From Jonathan Winters. If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to it. This quote made me join a dating service. In 1994 I met my husband and we were married in 1995. 30 years married now. Oh, I like that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Catherine says. Two of my favorites. It's easier to keep up than catch up. Love it and better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Irain has several Once the text or email takes up the whole screen, it's best to speak directly. Oh, good advice. Be prepared even if you don't know exactly what you're preparing for. That's a very Eisenhower idea. There are very few true emergencies. Most situations can benefit from a pause to consider your response. Good advice. You don't have to have an opinion about everything. And one my physician shared with me in my daughter's early weeks. Stay calm. That sounds like what our mother says to me all the time. She always is saying to me stay calm. It's good advice.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, you and I are quite reactionary.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We're high strung I would say.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Karen says from Maya Angelou do the best you can till you know better, then do better. She says it stops a lot of regrets of the if I knew then what I know now variety.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's great. Callie writes. People show you how they like to be treated by how they treat you. Say someone you love always buys you experience days rather than actual gifts. It's likely that that is their idea of a gift. That is a great idea. That's very true of the five love languages as well.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Patty says you can control the choice you make but not the consequence of that choice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

My father in law talks about that a lot. Brian said my mom has a few that make me laugh. Look with your eyes, not with your mouth and once you stop that's it. She'd say the first when we asked where something was instead of actually looking for it and the second about getting through the day. If she sat down she might not get back up so she just kept moving. That's funny.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Carmen says I have two that come to mind. One, you never regret reading the manual. Two, you don't need to feel bad about things you don't need to feel bad about. Helps me with regrets about making choices or not doing something perfectly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Jennifer says don't ruin an apology with an excuse that is good to remember.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And finally Tammy says here are some of mine. She's got a bunch. Self care is 100% guilt free for me. Some is good, more is not necessarily better. Goes with booze, food, TV and french fries. Stop doing things that hurt you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

She said.

[Elizabeth Craft]

The more I read, the better I feel. You can control your bedtime, but not your wake time. Go to bed now. Very true. She says you can't do everything, but everyone can do something. It says if you don't mess with politics, it will mess with you. Changing the world requires individual and collective actions simultaneously. And she says, know what you know. Listen to your gut. Apologize to your kids. When you make mistakes, they will respect you more. And she says a timer will get you moving. Keep one handy. You love your spouse and you are on the same team. Act accordingly. Good reminder to all of us. And finally, she said, when people act out, thinking they are having a hard time takes the sting out of their behavior. Especially when you remember you also have a hard time sometimes too.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh well. These were so interesting and helpful. Yes, they were so thought provoking. Such good insight and knowledge about how to deal with the complexities of dealing with life.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So thank you everybody for sending those in.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we've got a question from somebody who wants advice about office life. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Foreign.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Let'S talk about a small thing that can make a big difference if you have diabetes, the Freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor. It's amazing how the sensor gives you real time glucose readings so you can see the impact of every meal and activity to make better choices.

[Gretchen Rubin]

The Freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor can help you live life with diabetes on your terms. This is progress. You can try it for free at FreestyleLibre US. Offer available for people who qualify. Visit MyFreestyle US to see all terms and conditions. Certain exclusions apply for prescription only Safety info found @freestylelibre us.

[Elizabeth Craft]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. It is so important that we all have a support system. Gretch, you're a huge support for me, as are mom and dad. We've got a great supportive family. Nonetheless, there are times in my life when I have really turned to a therapist to give me even more advice and support. Therapy can be a source of support for any area in your life. Sometimes you just want to shift the focus from doing it all to knowing we're better when we ask for help.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Better Help is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide. Access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties and easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. Build your support system with better help. Visit betterhelp.com gretchenrubin to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com gretchenrubin and now for a listener question. This is an intriguing one.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, this comes from Beth. She says, I recently retired from teaching and while have enjoyed my career, I still feel I have much to offer. As a result, I have taken on a position in a small office. This is my first experience in an office environment, and I am eager to make a smooth transition. I was wondering if you or your listeners could offer any advice on adapting to office life. Specifically, I would appreciate suggestions on good habits to cultivate, bad habits to avoid, and any other tips that could help me be more effective in this new role.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So exciting, Beth.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Good luck.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's an atmosphere of growth taking on a whole new role. My general suggestion is to start the way you want to begin. So if you want to go for a walk every day at lunch, do that right away. If you want to walk out the door at 6:30, you want to do that right away. These habits start to form as soon as we start a new routine. And so I think it's really good to think about it in advance and think, well, what do I want this to look like? And really start doing that from the beginning.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's great advice. Something everyone in the office will appreciate is if you clean up after yourself.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Mm, yes. Another thing is you wanna reveal parts of yourself too. Like, if you're gonna connect with people, you wanna talk about what's your favorite TV show or what's your dog's name. Like, a way to connect with people is to share things about yourself that can allow other people to feel like they're starting to form friendships with you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And Gretch, this one can be tough for people, but ask questions if you don't know the answer so often. I don't want to do that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I know.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am reminded of the time, my first day ever of temping in college, when they asked me to fax something and I had no idea how to do it. So I just threw the piece of paper in the trash and hoped nothing would ever come of it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Do you know if anything ever did?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, at the end of the day, they told me they wouldn't be needing me tomorrow because I also kept forgetting to tell them who was on the phone. You know, like, I forget I just say telephone. And so I had a lot to learn. Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, that's good. Well, here's one. And I think this is particularly true these days with the way offices are Changing, which is don't talk too loudly. If you're in a space where other people can hear you, which probably they can, because people can find that very disruptive. And you might not realize that there might be people who are, like, hard at work, even though they're just sitting out. I think that's something to be aware of. And also interrupting people when they're working. I think sometimes people are not chatty enough because you want to be chatty enough. But then I do think that a way that conflict arises a lot of times is one person. If you're in an open office where people are sort of bumping up against each other, they're not in their own offices. If people feel like you're interrupting them too much, that can be a point of conflict. So you would want to pay attention to that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And then there's a whole issue of food, Gretchen. If you don't want to be doing a whole bunch of snacks that you wouldn't have been doing at your teaching job or at home, make a point of not eating food that you didn't bring in yourself. That's what I started doing at work, and that was very helpful for me. But on the other side of that, Gretchen, I would say don't be an evil donut bringer. Don't think, oh, I'm going to bring in donuts on Friday and, like, show everybody how excited I am to be here. It may not be appreciated. Now, I will say this. You may be in an office where that is appreciated. If that's the case, go ahead. But you want to know what the atmosphere is before you do that, right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I'm sure listeners have advice, too. Like, if you've had a new person come into the office and you're like, I wish I could just tell this person this thing, or whatever, what is good advice or what was helpful to you when you were starting in a new office? Let us know. It's a question that comes up a lot, obviously.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And now for demerits and gold stars. Elizabeth, it's an even numbered episode, which means it's your turn to talk about a demerit.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretch. My demerit is something I keep doing. It's driving me nuts, which is wearing bad socks when I walk the dogs.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ah, okay.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So I don't do this if I'm going to Fryman Canyon, but sometimes around the house, I wear socks that aren't great socks. The kinds that'll slip down.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, do not like those kinds of socks.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And they're fine in my croc slides, but put a sneaker on those, and they immediately come down, like, under my heel, and they're a total pain. And I'll be going to walk the dog, and I'll know I'm wearing these socks.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So you've identified the socks are identified as bad socks.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I know they're bad socks. I know exactly what's gonna happen if I wear them to walk the dogs, but I'm just too lazy to go change my socks before I walk the dogs. And then I spend the whole walk either very uncomfortable or stopping and yanking up the socks, which are then, like, pulling against my toes. I mean, it's just ridiculous.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So what do you think is the solution?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I think probably I need to transition out of those socks. You know, I'm the kind of person, like you that never throws away an old T shirt. I think I have a lot of socks that at one point may have worked and now have lost their, you know, good sockness, and I need to let them go, even if technically, you know, they don't have holes in them.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. You could give them away. Or. I mean, because part of it is, like, you probably have enough good socks that it's not even like you need to buy new socks. You just need to wash these socks more often. They'll just be in circulation more often.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Exactly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So in that sense, it's not extravagant. It's just that you're not wearing to shreds.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Exactly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

The bad socks.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And sometimes I'll wear the bad socks simply because I want to wear them out more so that I can throw them away.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right? Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You know, it's like I have an impulse to make a point of wearing them into Save the good ones. So it's a thing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's a thing. I get it. I 100% get it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

What is your gold star this week, Gretch?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I want to give a gold star to the designers who design book jackets. I realized how much I love this art form. It was so hard to come up with the COVID of Secrets of Adulthood, and I love the COVID and I thought it was such a brilliant solution to how to convey an abstract idea visually. But every time I go into a bookstore, I just love looking at the covers. If I go to a foreign country, I always try to go to a bookstore so I can look at the covers there. I know how hard it is to do something original because I've done enough books now. I know that it's tough because you want something that's distinctive, but it's also familiar enough that people can get a clue about what sort of book it is. Our mother and father have given me a couple books that are all about book jacket design, and I'll just look at them. I just find enormous pleasure. And it's fun to kind of spot trends like, oh, there's certain things where you can really recognize it if you're paying attention. The way some people love album covers. That was a whole art form that some people really loved. I just. I think it's beautiful. I was looking. I forget why I was looking up a publisher online. And I ended up spending like a half an hour just going paging, paging, paging through all the books that they had published because it was just so interesting to look at the book jackets. And so I give a gold star to all the people who do this because it's such a very specific thing to do. I remember, gosh, I remember walking into a bookstore and seeing the COVID of Twilight.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Now it's become very almost trite because so many people have copied it. But when I first saw that, I was like, that book is gonna sell a million copies because it was such a striking cover at the time. So gold star to the designers of book jackets.

[Elizabeth Craft]

We say don't judge a book by its cover, but we all do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, we all do. I've bought books just because I love the COVID and the resource for this week. Okay, we are nearing spring cleaning time, and so I have created a guide to my favorite products for getting organized. You can find it in the organization section of my website, happiercast.com organization. Lots of great things there to help with spring cleaning. And Elizabeth, what are we reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am reading say Everything, a memoir by Ione Sky.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I am reading Orbital by Samantha Harvey. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Consider the rule of. More. Let us know if you've tried it and if it worked for you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Rate us, Review us, Follow us and if you enjoyed the podcast, tell your friends. First host.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. But so, Elizabeth, you know that when you're in Fryman Canyon, like, the stakes are so high, you can't risk having bad socks. It's only the dog walking.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. No, I would never do it at Fryman Canyon.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I remember going on a long hike with a friend and I had bad socks and I had to stop every three minutes because it's so annoying to have that feeling. And I'm sure it just drove her bananas to have me constantly fussing with my socks. It's a terrible feeling.

[Elizabeth Craft]

We've all been there.

[Gretchen Rubin]

From the onward. Project.

On Death, Sex and Money. We feature interviews with you, our community of listeners, getting honest about uncomfortable things.

I developed an illness where it isn't safe for me to drive. A friend once said to me, sex is like air. You don't think about it until you're not getting enough. This is a similar sort of thing if you just replace sex with driving.

Listen to Debt, Sex and Money wherever you get podcasts.