Ep. 543: Make a Decision and Make It Work, a Text-Scheduling Hack & Following Up on Mean "Jokes"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin - Ep. 543: Make a Decision and Make It Work, a Text-Scheduling Hack & Following Up on Mean "Jokes"

Release Date: July 16, 2025

In Episode 543 of "Happier with Gretchen Rubin," host Gretchen Rubin and her co-host, her sister Elizabeth Craft, delve into the intricacies of decision-making, share practical happiness hacks, and address listeners' concerns about dealing with mean-spirited jokes in relationships. The episode is a blend of personal anecdotes, expert insights, and community-driven advice, all aimed at fostering a happier and more fulfilling life.

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Introduction & Updates

The episode kicks off with Elizabeth Craft sharing her enthusiasm for incorporating whimsy into daily life, specifically through family-oriented activities aimed at reducing the monotony of leftovers. Elizabeth explains how her family transformed leftover dinners into "family restaurant nights," where kids create menus and take on roles, making mealtime an enjoyable event.

Notable Quote:

Elizabeth Craft [03:13]: "Our kids make a menu, then take turns showing everyone to the table and taking orders… it has turned something I found boring at best into an evening we all enjoy."

Gretchen echoes the sentiment, reminiscing about similar family traditions and emphasizing the importance of creativity in making routine tasks enjoyable.

Main Discussion: Make a Decision and Make It Work

Gretchen Rubin introduces the episode's central theme: the psychological benefits of committing to decisions without dwelling on their reversibility. She posits that "the ability to change our minds actually makes people less satisfied with their choices" (05:58). The conversation highlights research indicating that knowing a decision can be reversed often leads to decreased satisfaction and increased regret.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [05:30]: "Make a decision and make it work."

Melissa [06:17]: "There's something about knowing that you can reverse it that undermines the post-decision satisfaction."

The hosts discuss personal experiences, such as Gretchen's apprehension about committing to large purchases like a lake house, and how embracing irreversible decisions can lead to greater contentment.

Listener Answers: Dealing with Mean "Jokes"

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to addressing a listener's dilemma about responding to a husband who makes mean-spirited jokes. Multiple listeners contribute their strategies and experiences, providing a diverse array of solutions:

1. Elizabeth Craft [19:27]: Shares her method of setting boundaries by leaving the room or driving separately when mean comments are made.
2. Sarah [20:34]: Suggests that comments should stand on their own without the need for a "just kidding" follow-up.
3. Karine [20:50]: Recommends direct confrontation and expressing hurt feelings without making a scene.

Notable Quote:

Elizabeth Craft [20:50]: "All the more reason to have a conversation with him about it. I would tell him how she's feeling and warn him that going forward she is going to call him out on it in the moment."

Gretchen underscores the importance of breaking the cycle of normalized mean behavior and encourages listeners to seek external support when necessary.

Listener Update: Gratitude and Reflection

The episode features a heartfelt update from Jeanine, a listener who reflects on a previous episode's impact while coping with her father's Parkinson's disease. Jeanine shares how the podcast's advice aided her in honoring her father's rebel identity, ultimately strengthening their bond during his final years.

Notable Quote:

Jeanine [28:57]: "In those two years, we bonded more deeply through poems and stories and songs and jokes. He fought hard and all along was gentle, kind and pleasant…"

Gretchen expresses profound gratitude, highlighting the community's collective wisdom in navigating personal challenges.

Happiness Hack: Text-Scheduling

Gretchen introduces a text-scheduling hack for iPhone users, allowing delayed delivery of text messages—a tool she finds invaluable for managing communications across different time zones without disturbing others at inappropriate times.

Notable Quotes:

Gretchen Rubin [17:17]: "There's a way to do delayed delivery in text, just like there is delayed delivery in email."

Elizabeth Craft [18:32]: "I'm gonna try using this. Cause sometimes I also text myself reminders."

This practical tip aims to enhance communication efficiency and reduce the stress associated with immediate responses.

Demerits and Gold Stars

In a light-hearted segment, Gretchen admits to self-imposing a demerit for not replacing a pink light bulb gifted by Elizabeth, despite her aversion to dealing with light bulb choices. This candid moment underscores the challenges of overcoming personal procrastination.

Notable Quote:

Gretchen Rubin [34:18]: "I have all bad, complicated feelings about light bulbs. It's really hard because people are like, is this one better?"

Conversely, Elizabeth awards a gold star to her facialist, Lenny, appreciating her enthusiasm and the positive impact of a much-needed facial.

Resources: Summer Reading Challenge

The hosts promote the Bookshop Summer Reading Challenge, a 30-day initiative encouraging diverse reading habits. Participants can compete for gift cards and book prizes, fostering a community of engaged and happy readers.

Notable Quote:

Gretchen Rubin [37:31]: "Bookshop Summer Reading Challenge just began and I am so excited that we are hosting it in the Happier Hours app."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Gretchen and Elizabeth sharing their current reading materials and encouraging listeners to engage with the discussed strategies. They express gratitude to their production team and remind listeners to subscribe for an ad-free experience.

Final Thoughts:

Gretchen Rubin [38:28]: "Remember to try this at home. Make a decision and make it work. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you."

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Key Takeaways:

• Commitment Enhances Satisfaction: Making decisions and fully committing to them can lead to higher satisfaction and reduced regret.
• Setting Boundaries in Relationships: Addressing hurtful behavior directly and establishing clear boundaries is essential for emotional well-being.
• Practical Tools for Everyday Happiness: Implementing simple hacks, like text-scheduling, can significantly improve daily life management.
• Community and Support: Sharing experiences and strategies with a supportive community can provide invaluable assistance during challenging times.

This episode of "Happier with Gretchen Rubin" offers listeners a rich blend of actionable advice, personal reflections, and community support, all aimed at fostering a happier and more intentional life.

Transcript

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

So if you're looking to design your future with a flexible and supportive tax career, visit intuit.comexpert to learn more or apply that's intuit.com expert.

[Melissa]

Lemonade.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about how to make our lives happier, healthier, more productive and more creative. This week we'll talk about why it can be a good idea to make a decision and make it work. And we'll share some listener answers to the person who asked about Happy how to respond to her husband's mean jokes. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits and human nature. I'm here in my little home office in New York City, which is quite hot because I can't have my air conditioning on while I record. So I'm sitting here in the summer heat. And joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I am seeing you before too long. Embrace yourself. You did say to me that we could clear your closet.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I am chomping at the bit.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And I was just thinking this morning, Gretchen, that you have no idea what's in store.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. My first question is, how many hampers do you have right now?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, I think I've got two hampers.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, well, you. But before we jump in, a few updates.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, this comes from Elizabeth. She says, I loved hearing all of my fellow listeners ideas for adding whimsy to everyday life. As I listened, I realized that I've used some whimsy to make something I previously found, well, blah, more enjoyable. For some reason, I don't like leftovers for dinner. Lunch, sure, but I'd like something new or fresh for dinner. But sometimes we need to eat up the leftovers for dinner. To avoid wasting food. About a year ago, we started having family restaurant dinner. On nights when we need to clear out the fridge. Our kids make a menu, then take turns showing everyone to the table and taking orders. But while my husband or I play short order chef, heating plates and sending them to the table with a bon appetit, it has turned something I found boring at best into an evening we all enjoy. To the point that now if we have enough in the fridge and the kids ask if we can do family restaurant, I readily say yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I mean, this is such a great example of whimsy and also reframing. You know, it's like family restaurant. And then it's like everybody can have what they want in order. We used to do this. We had one of those sandwich. It was like a little kid's version of those sandwich boards that you put out on the street. And they would in chalk write menus. And we had like a plastic menu and they would make their own menus. We called it restaurant night, but we didn't do it for leftovers. I think this is a great idea. This is exactly the kind of thing children can really run with making it very, very imaginative and fun. What a great idea.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And I love the idea of the short order cook. Like heating up plates in the microwave. So, so fun.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Wear an apron. Yeah, no, there's a lot that you could do with that. That's super fun. And then Amanda wrote, I did my design your summer template a few weeks ago when it came out and I had thought it would be fun if our whole family did it. I employed a different strategy for each person tailored to their tendency. Love this. For my 19 year old upholder. I just told her about it and showed her mine. She was interested and just did it for my 17 year old obliger. I handed it to him during breakfast with a pen and showed him what his sister and I did for my year old rebel. I left the form out with a pen on it and didn't say a thing. She did it while we were all gone and didn't mention it. When we returned from my obliger husband, for whom I am not a good accountability partner, the kids all got talking about it one evening over dinner and he was the last holdout and ta da. It was done. We have them all sitting out on our kitchen island where we can see them. It's super fun to see what everybody wants to do.

[Melissa]

So I love this design, your summer.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Plus tendency and I love seeing that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It works with the Rebel. To just put it out and not say anything. It's always fun when it comes to fruition. When Rebel does exactly what you think.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They'Ll do, it's just your choice. Here it is. If you want no pressure, no praise, no encouragement, no reminding, it's just there if you want it. And it seems like a fun thing to do, so why not? And again, if you do not know your tendency or you have no idea what we're talking about, you can take the [e-mail] and you will learn your tendency and all will be revealed. So that's super fun.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So this week our try this at home suggestion is to make a decision and make it work.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So explain what this means. Gretch, we talk a lot about decision making. What does this one mean?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Now, this has to do with changing our minds. So what might seem kind of counterintuitive is that the ability to change our minds actually makes people less satisfied with their choices. Often there are studies showing that when people know that they can reverse a decision. Watch. Or when they are encouraged to keep examining their reasons for making a decision.

[Melissa]

They often end up less satisfied with what they chose. Which you might think like, oh, knowing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That you could change your mind might.

[Melissa]

Make you more confident in your decision, but it does not have that effect. And study after study shows this, that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Reversible decisions where choices can be changed after the fact actually produce lower satisfaction.

[Melissa]

And heightened regret compared to sort of one and done decisions. There's just something about knowing that you can reverse it that undermines the post decision satisfaction and it keeps that loop opening. Should I keep thinking about what I rejected? Like, did I make a mistake? Should I rethink it? Do I need to undo it? Whereas if you commit, then we close the door on those other options and make it work. And that's why we wanna make a decision and make it work.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am definitely someone who can fall prey to the questioning a decision, wondering if I made the right decision. But I always think, Gretchen, it's like if you're getting a new light fixture, that's something it's very hard to reverse your decision on, right? Because you have to have it installed. It's a whole thing, the placement. And I know once I choose it, I will literally never think of it again.

[Melissa]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I will never again be like, oh, did I choose the right light fixture? It's just there, right? And it's like that. Once it's there, it's there and you don't have to think about it. But as long as you can Reverse course. It can really haunt you.

[Melissa]

Yeah. Because if you keep examining it, your mind clings to what might have been. And I've been thinking about this lately in the context of college. And one thing that. Because I've got somebody, a child in college right now, and I'm sorry, pay attention to that. And it does seem to. Melissa, tell me this is just anecdote. If this is true for you. Does it seem to you that people transfer more often or consider transferring more often than they did when we were in college?

[Elizabeth Craft]

It does, yes. I have noticed that.

[Melissa]

Yes. So I was thinking about this and how that's sort of an option that people think about. And I was thinking, well, that's great sometimes, of course. But I do wonder if it makes people feel more unsettled and keeps them from just saying, like, here it is. This is my fate. I'm gonna just commit and make it work. And I'm here for the long term. If you're thinking like, oh, well, maybe I'm just here for a few more months, maybe I'm gonna change my mind. Oh, and this was reminding me of the conversations you often hear about summer camp, which, of course, is a much lower stakes decision, but it's still really, really important in the life of a family. And generally, the fact is, experts will tell you they recommend against telling children, if you don't like summer camp, you can come home anytime. And what the research and these professionals say is that you avoid saying this because it can undermine a child's ability to adjust and also build independence. And that promising rescue mission, which is what they call it, can actually increase homesickness because it shifts the child's attention back towards home and away from the camp experience. And then I think it's also this question of reexamining the decision, do I want to be here? Do I not want to be here? Instead of just saying, like, well, I'm here. Maybe I feel lousy today, but maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. If you can't get out of it, get into it, as you say.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Exactly, exactly.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I know you were worried about this when you were getting your lake house.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, like, you said that you can be subject to regret. I can be very, very subject to regret. I mean, to the point that Jamie and Eliza and Eleanor comment on, like, oh, my gosh, don't go into a regret spiral, because I will do that. So I was really afraid that was such a gigantic commitment that I would really regret it. And I will say that there is the moment where you're like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? Like, this is such a big responsibility. But then I was like, I just love it. It's kind of like a bigger example of the light fixture. The fact that it's such a big decision and would be so hard to unmake. It's not like I could just lightly unmake it. Like, oh, I'll just return this sweater to the store and get a new sweater. It just made me like, okay, let's make this work, because we've made our decision, now we need to make it work. And I think that was part of why I just was like, oh, this is wonderful.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. You know where it comes up with me is vacation choices. If you've made a vacation choice and it's non refundable, then it's easy to just say, okay, this is what we're doing, but as long as you could do something else, I'm like, well, was that the right thing? Is that where we should be going? Is that the right hotel? Is there somewhere better? Even? Recently, Gretchen, I was making plans for our reading retreat, which we're doing soon, and I was like trying not to go down the rabbit hole of should we be going somewhere else?

[Melissa]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

We're going to Los Olivos, outside of Santa Barbara.

[Melissa]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It's gorgeous. It's wonderful. There's no reason for me to question that, but nonetheless, I find it hard to not be thinking that was that the right choice? Should we actually be going south and not north?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So I try to actively eject this from my brain, but it's difficult.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, there are so many things in response to that. First of all, there's maximizers and satisficers. So maximizers want to make the very, very best decisions where satisficers want to just tick all the boxes. And so definitely our current plan ticks all the boxes. And so I don't think that we even need to inquire, is there one that would tick boxes that we haven't even thought of? Because it's ticked all the boxes. It's exactly what we need. And this is also a good example, is that with many decisions, there is no one right decision. There is no right decision within a certain boundary. Like, we made a good decision and we will make it the right decision by how we use that time together. So we're going to make a decision and make it work through our actions and just picking a different place. It really is very inconsequential that. I know what you mean. Sometimes you sort of have to say to yourself, that's not a useful path. It's not a good use of my time and my energy because we've made a great decision. And here's the other thing. And this is one of the secrets of adulthood in my book, Secrets of Adulthood. And I think that this is something that really is a problem for people in decision making and maybe particularly for questioners who always want to make the best decision, is that often when we make a decision, we go down one path, and that means we forego other paths. So any choice brings unavoidable regret. I think sometimes people think, if I make the perfect decision, I will experience no regret. There will be nothing that I have to give up. But a lot of times, if you have an apple, you can't have an orange. If you live in Brooklyn, you can't live in New Jersey. It's like, there's no way that one of them will mean that you get every single thing.

[Melissa]

If we're by the water, we're not.

[Gretchen Rubin]

By the mountains or whatever it might be. And so I think sometimes people have an unrealistic expectation of what a decision could bring. And so then that gives them the regret. But it's like, yeah, but if you'd made the other decision, you would make those regrets. And so you just have to face that. That's part of decision making sometimes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And you know what's funny, though, is this reminds me that the opposite of a profound truth is also true. Because when it comes to reading, we are very adamant that you should be able to reverse your decision and decide not to read the book and not feel that, okay, I've made the decision, and now I'm sticking to it. So there are times where you want to change your mind and question, do I really wanna be doing this? And reading is definitely one of those.

[Melissa]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And 100%.

[Melissa]

And of course, we're not saying people should stay in a terrible situation and deal with it and everything.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is more of a guideline than a rule or just an understanding.

[Melissa]

It's just knowing that often making an.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Irreversible decision or treating a decision as if it is irreversible might lead to greater satisfaction.

[Melissa]

But we are definitely not making a blanket statement that you should just make a decision and make it work in every single circumstance. And that is always the right answer, because clearly that is not true.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's just something to ponder.

[Melissa]

I just think it's counterintuitive. I think we always think, like, people love choices.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We want choices we don't always understand.

[Melissa]

That there are downsides to choices.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And it's really about self doubt. Right. It's like you doubt your ability to make a good decision, therefore you keep thinking about it. So you just let that go. Then you can be at peace.

[Melissa]

Yeah. Well, I'm going to be so curious to hear what other people's response is. So let us know if you do try this at home, if you've made.

[Gretchen Rubin]

A decision or made it work, or.

[Melissa]

If there's something that you constantly are regretting or rethinking, Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an [e-mail] or as always, you can go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com 543.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we've got a scheduling happiness hack. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Elizabeth is so fun to entertain in the summertime. It's so fun to have people over when it's warm, you're grilling, you're outdoors in the sunshine. We have this new dream house, this new lake house, and it is so fun to entertain there. But we realized we need an umbrella and I loved going to Wayfair. There were so many options. We're deep in negotiations about what we think is the perfect thing because there were so many styles that we liked and all the prices were so good. We cannot wait to get this set up.

[Elizabeth Craft]

There's something for every style in every home at Wayfair. No matter your spirit, space or budget and Gretch, they have free and easy delivery, even on the big stuff. Find all your outdoor must haves. From seating to garden trellises, to pool loungers to trampolines, all in one convenient place. Shop outdoor furniture, grills, lawn games, and way more for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to explore a huge outdoor selection that's W-A-Y-F A I R.com Wayfair every style, every home meet JLab headphones and speakers as vibrant as your summer beach days, workout sessions, or chill moments. Find the perfect sound with JLab. JLab's colorful collection has something for every summer adventure and every moment. Think headphones and speakers and fresh summer colors with features you actually want for beach workouts, poolside chilling, or sunset jamming sessions.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They have so many great products. I mean, the one that I really, really Love is the JBuds Mini. These are little tiny earbuds. They fit on your keychain. I carry mine with me everywhere. They come in fresh mint, green sage Ocean aqua, bright pink or sleek black. I have the black. They're smaller than a coin. Perfect for small ears.

[Melissa]

And for summer pockets. Plus they have their summer speaker series. From pocket size to party size, the JLAB party speaker series brings powerful sound to any summer gathering. Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code happier for 15% off your order today.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, Gretch, we are back with this week's happiness hack. This is something you've been using?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, this is something that I've been using. Okay, so I do use an iPhone and. But I'm sure that on every other kind of phone there's something similar to do this because it's such an obvious thing, but I did not know about it until recently, so I will let others know. Elizabeth, you didn't know about it either, so.

[Elizabeth Craft]

No.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. So the thing about me is I get up really early in the morning and I also also am very close to many people who live in different time zones. Like our parents live in the central time zone. Elizabeth, you're in the Pacific time zone. I have two daughters who tend to sleep much later than I do. And not everybody turns off their notifications at night. But I will just text people willy nilly. But I'm sure that that's very annoying to people. Or they might think like, oh, it must be an emergency. If Gretchen is Texting me at 3am, it must be an emergency. No, it is not. I am just up at 6:00 my time. But there is a way to do delayed delivery in text, just like there is delayed delivery in email. And so if you go to your text, at least in an iPhone, where I have, if you hit the plus sign like as if you were gonna use your camera, there's a whole list of options, which of course I had never read to see what the options were. But one of those is send. Later a thing will pop up. You can choose a day and a time for your scheduled message to be delivered. And now I even do this sometimes I'll have it on a completely different day because I'll think like, well, this isn't gonna be useful until Monday. And so I don't want it to get lost in someone's text messages. And so I'll do it in the day where it's relevant. And so this is just something that I sort of thought the whole thing about text is that it was like immediate, but it doesn't have to be.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, I'm gonna try using this. Cause sometimes I also text myself reminders. So this would be great for texting myself. Elizabeth, Remember to pick up medicine on Wednesday. Have it pop up on Wednesday.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, because there's ways you can do notifications, blah blah blah. But this is in text. That's a great idea. I never thought of that. That's a great idea.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Excellent.

[Elizabeth Craft]

O Good one, Gretch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Good.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Now we have some listener answers.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes so in episode 539 we talked about a question from a listener whose husband was in the habit of making mean jokes. So sort of saying mean things and then saying, well, I was just joking. Why can't you take a joke? And she was confounded about how to respond to that. And we got many emails from listeners who had experienced the same thing, dealt with the same thing, or perhaps had been one of the mean jokers themselves who are weighing in from their perspective. Lots of interesting respons responses yes, Debbie said.

[Elizabeth Craft]

My husband's family was one that made fun of each other. It really bothered me. He usually felt safer making unkind comments to me when he was with his family of origin. After going to therapy, I implemented some coping mechanisms. 1. Early in our marriage, I would leave the room when this happened, signaling I wasn't going to receive the comments. 2. As I got stronger in my ability to use my voice, I told him that if this behavior continued when we were in groups, I would leave. I drove a separate car to the family event events.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Whoa. Yeah. Three.

[Elizabeth Craft]

When my oldest was about four, he made a mean comment. I immediately stepped in and told him this pattern was stopping and I wouldn't tolerate it. 4. After 30 years of marriage, I have brought up the subject with my adult kids and made them aware of it. So we've established a no mean comment environment in which my husband has abided by. I don't think he was aware of the hurtfulness of this habit because it was normalized in his family. But now that our family has broken the cycle, he's much more at peace. Nobody's being mean to him and he's not allowed to say unkind things to his own family.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's a lot of good suggestions. Yes, Sarah said. A friend of mine tells her family, if you have to say just kidding afterward, it shouldn't have been said. My sister says if it's not funny for everyone, it shouldn't be said.

[Melissa]

So these are two great observations.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, Karine said. I have seen this dynamic in two couples I know well. In both cases, my husband and I are friends with the wife, but we frequently have gatherings that everyone attends. We are shocked and frankly disgusted when we see the husbands making their wives the butt of mean jokes and comments. First off, your listeners should know that probably everyone who witnesses her husband's treatment of her is on her side and it is not reflecting well on him. All the more reason to have a conversation with him about it. I would tell him how she's feeling and warn him that going forward she is going to call him out on it in the moment. If that is embarrassing for him, too bad. Maybe he'll learn a lesson. This can be simple. I don't suggest making a scene. I would just pause and say something like that comment hurt my feelings. Or simply wow, that was a mean thing to say. I feel like this pattern of behavior is incredibly cruel. The fact that the victim feels pressured to make light of it and actually take part by laughing themselves is galling.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this reminds me of something that somebody said she would do at work.

[Melissa]

If somebody said something offensive is that she would say, oh, I didn't hear what you said. What did you say? Repeat that. And she said like if you're sort of out of the context of a conversation and somebody has to like repeat something just flat out, a lot of times they hear themselves and they realize, wow, I shouldn't have said that. So I'll just throw that in. That might be useful. Yes, Danica says the family I grew up in teased each other relentlessly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It was not malicious and it was.

[Melissa]

How we showed each other love. I'm sure this can be psychoanalyzed. Lol. To be clear, we did not call each other losers. That's a bit intense. For me it was more like the way you're cutting that meat. I think you may be left handed and other things that aren't super. My friends were all like this growing up and in college as well, which was probably not a coincidence. When I entered my PhD program, I continued to assume everyone liked to joke like this. But it took me two or three years to find out this was not true and people were bothered by it. So let me share my perspective as to why I missed the signs people didn't like it. 1. When people tried to tell me their feelings were hurt, I thought they were continuing the joke with me and it didn't cross my mind they were serious. This is terrible, but true. So I think it's a good idea for her to talk to him later after the fact. 2. I was so used to people always bantering back and forth with me that I didn't even realize that people weren't bantering back with me. So once I started to look for this, I was able to discern who I could joke with this way and who I shouldn't. 3. I laughed very loud so it always seemed like other people were laughing. So I think my best advice would be just to ask him to be more aware of your feelings and to talk to him when he's not in a joking mood. There also could be some particular word that helps him understand how she feels. For example, disrespectful is a word that really sticks with me. For example, I know you were just joking around, but it makes me feel you don't respect me when you call me a loser, especially in front of our child. I like when you joke around with me, but the name calling is hard for me to take. I do feel bad for her and her husband, mostly her as she's getting the brunt of it, but also for him as he may be sabotaging relationships in other areas of his life as well.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Wow, that's super insightful.

[Melissa]

Yeah, very interesting to hear from it on the other side.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, dawn said. I knew the scenario immediately when you started reading the listener's message before you even read the whole thing. My husband did the same thing to me. I think the best route is to just be upfront and tell him that his comments are hurtful to you and he needs to to stop trying to get him to understand in a roundabout way. I think Liz mentioned talking about how his dad may have felt etc isn't going to do it. I feel anyone doing something like this should be told directly, maybe later after the fact so you could address it with calm and not in the emotional moment. My husband did address the issue, but there were too many others that he did not want to address. So we have been now divorced for 10 years. So not that this is the same situation for this listener, but it's a red flag to me that he is not more cognizant of his wife and her feelings. If that is the case, she might consider counseling.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Interesting. Whitney says I have a spouse that does the exact same thing as the example in this episode and his family was the same, always making jokes at each other's expense that were not funny. With time my spouse has learned it's not okay and here's some things I do that have helped him learn this in the past. First of all, pointing it out. They won't even realize they are doing it because it is so normal to them and how they grew up. You can do this both in the moment and again when the situation has calmed down. Relating it to our children. Would you want our daughter to grow up and have someone say these things to her over and over? Would that be okay? Pointing out your spouse's relationship with his family and what it did to him? Your family does this. And how does it make you feel? Do you have a good relationship with your family members that do this? No. Do you want a good relationship with me, your wife, and your kids? Then stop. This behavior is hurtful. Go to therapy both separately and together. This is a learned behavior, and it will take time to unpack and unlearn. Having another person that is not you point out that he shouldn't be making these unfunny jokes at your expense will get that point across far better than tackling the issue yourself. Especially if he tends to brush it off. Off. It can be unlearned. He will just have to do the work. Good luck.

[Elizabeth Craft]

What great responses, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, this is really helpful. And you know what is, I'm wondering a lot, Elizabeth, is if something that could be useful is to just play the initial episode 539 and this response and to say this is a thing that many, many people object to. Yes, you're doing this, saying, this is funny. But like, there's just this widespread understanding that this behavior, though very common, is something that bothers a lot of people. It's not that I am just this humorless person that can't take a joke. This is actually something that many people have grappled with. And it also might the point that sometimes advice comes better when it's not coming from the spouse. There's a lot of great suggestions here. And so maybe something will catch the person's attention and help further the conversation along.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And I like that so many of these suggestions lead to the husband being happier himself.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I do think the thing with teasing is, Elizabeth, the way we grew up, nobody teased. We did not tease at all. And it took me a while to get used to the fact that sometimes Jamie's family does tease. Because in our family, if you tease somebody, it meant that you were ever so slightly, gently trying to suggest something. And it had a lot of weight.

[Melissa]

I mean, we just didn't do it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We just didn't do it. And I think that my startled and just, oh, my gosh, what are you saying to me? I think now they tease tease a lot less. And I think partly it was just because I was just absolutely so confounded by it and like, did not think it was funny at all contributed to.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That to make a vast generalization. I do think in the Midwest, there seems to be less teasing than on the coast.

[Melissa]

Mm.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Interesting. Yeah. Which is maybe why we seem earnest.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, there's like, an earnestness to it and why we seem nicer.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And people can rib.

[Melissa]

There's a whole study of levity and.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Joking around and how powerful joking around can be and how you can tease people in a positive way and you can sort of trash talk in a way that's positive. It's not to say that you have to be, like, nice and complimentary to people all the time, but when you.

[Melissa]

Say something mean and pretend it's a.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Joke, we all know what that looks like. That is not the same thing as joshing somebody in a way that they're laughing along with you. I mean, that is the test. Is the person honestly laughing along with you and thinks it's funny, or has the person got a grimace on their face and feels hurt and embarrassed and, like somebody said, as if they have to go along with it, and that just makes it all the more hurtful.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then we also have a note from a listener, which is an update to a conversation that we had on the podcast two years ago.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Jeanine says, I'm writing just over two years since my previous letter to say thank you and provide an Update. In episode 429, you shared the challenges I was facing in communicating to my rebel father with Parkinson's about using his wheelchair medical alert device and other tools designed to aid his health and safety. The answers the two of you gave, plus the listener answers provided a few episodes later, meant so much to me and helped our situation. Particularly memorable was the answer from Amber, who identified as a hospice worker who had been with geriatric patients for many years. Including dad in all his care decisions was something we were trying to do and hearing from a professional like Amber, the importance of doing this was a very helpful reinforcement. Other things were useful, too, including the idea of not praising him for doing the thing he's choosing to do. That one was interesting to me. As a fellow rebel. I love praise, but I struggle to not loathe being told what to do. Dad's loved ones had a lot of success using the techniques suggested by you and your listeners. Thank you. Two weeks ago, he passed away. Two years after a hospice doctor had given him two weeks to two months to live. Live two years. He was a champion, and I believe that the ways in which we honored his rebel identity and especially how he formed his own new identity in his situation, was instrumental in that. In those two years, we bonded more deeply through poems and stories and songs and jokes. He fought hard and all along was gentle, kind and pleasant, exactly the man he had always known himself to be. I'm grateful that you read my letter on air. Two years ago when I came home from my dad's funeral, I revisited and though I felt sad to hear of a time we no longer had, I loved listening to it. It's a beautiful archive of a moment in time. I'm so happy to have this and honored that your vast audience listened to my dad's story and contributed to the betterment of his health as long as it could last, I mean. Oh, that's wonderful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, that was so moving. And it's so wonderful to think that all the listeners sort of combined wisdom and experience could really make a challenging experience better. It sounds. Wow, two years. So that was really wonderful to hear. So, Janine, thank you for sending in that update.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, thank you. Okay, Gretch, coming up, you have a demerit that I think might be a repeat demerit. We're certainly in the realm of a repeat demerit. But first this break. Introducing the new Dell AI PC. Powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor. It's not just an AI computer, it's a computer built for AI. That means it's built to help do your busy work for you, so you can fast forward through editing images, designing.

[Melissa]

Presentations, generating code, debugging code, running lots of apps without lag, creating live translations and captions, summarizing meetings, notes, extending battery life, enhancing security, finding that file you were looking for, managing your schedule, meeting your deadlines, responding to Jim's long emails.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Leaving all the time in the world for more you time and for the things you actually want to do. No offense Jim. Get a new Dell AI PC starting at [e-mail] AI PC be how those ahead Stay ahead. If you're like us, you love discovering habits and systems that make life better. That's why we're excited to share this opportunity. It's perfect for anyone trying to design a career that works for them, not against them. Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks, is expanding its world class network of tax and bookkeeping experts. As an Intuit expert, you get to work virtually, select your hours and be part of a mission driven culture focused on helping customers prosper. Plus, you're supported by a team of experienced tax professionals who are there to help you succeed.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They also offer Intuit Academy, a free and self paced training program through which you can advance your tax and bookkeeping career.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So if you're looking to design your future with a flexible and supportive tax career, visit intuit.comexpert learn more or apply that's I n t u I t.com expert okay, we're back with demerits and gold stars. And Gretch, you have a demerit this week.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. Yes, it is indeed a repeat demerit. So do you remember how I said to you, oh, a while back years ago, Eliza gave me a pink light bulb for Christmas because I really hate the weird light from the modern energy efficient light bulbs and I'm always complaining about them. And so she got me this special peak light bulb. I put it on my desk, desk. And it has just been sitting there ever since. I mean, it's gotta be at least three years, I think. And I said this, gave myself to demerit with the intention, like now that I've given myself a demerit, surely I will do something so easy and just take care of this. Have I done it? No, I have not.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Do you know why you haven't done it?

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's funny because I really fight for the precious real estate of my desk and this has been sitting on my desk. So no, it does fade away and I'll just even, you know, it becomes wallpaper. So I don't even see it for months at a time. I think part of it is that I do have all bad, complicated feelings about light bulbs. It's really hard because people are like, is this one better? Is this one worse? Then I'm like, what if I like this light bulb, am I going to have to go and switch all the light bulbs? It's going to take discernment and judgment. Should it be light out when I do it or dark when I do it? All I have to do is unscrew and do it. And I almost never think to do it. But then when I do, I just, I'm like, I don't want to deal with it. I don't know, maybe I need to put it on the 26 for 26 list. Then I know it would get done. But like, that's six months away. Surely I can do this in the next five minutes. I just have this aversion to doing it. Even though it goes against every outer order, inner calm, bone in my body. I mean, here I am saying I'm gonna happiness bully you into clearing your closet and I've Got this doodad sitting on my desk for years. It's just like, who am I?

[Elizabeth Craft]

My question is, do you not know which light you're gonna put it in? Is that the problem?

[Melissa]

No, I think I'm just gonna put.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It in any light and just see what it looks like. I don't know. Is it really pink, almost like disco ball? Or is it just kind nice rosy light again, it's like, I don't know. What do I think?

[Melissa]

Anyway, there's something about light where it's.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Kind of both obvious and so subtle.

[Melissa]

You can't put your finger on it. I did research, thinking, do I actually have extra rods or cones or something? Because it seems like I see something that a lot of people don't see. I thought, am I color? Like, the opposite of colorblind? Like, am I truly seeing something that other people don't see? Because I'll be like, that light looks hideously orange green to me. Do you see that? And other people don't seem bothered by it, but as far as I can tell, like, no such thing exists. That's not a thing.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Interesting.

[Melissa]

So I guess I just care more, which is so unlike me.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Melissa]

It's very uncharacteristic of me to care so much about something like light bulbs. Anyway, it was a very thoughtful gift because I am so passionate about light bulbs. So I just have, like, a lot of complicated emotions when it comes to light bulb Elizabeth. There I am. Eventually I'll get to it. I'm confident. I hope. But what is your gold star?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I am giving my gold star to Lenny, my facialist. Greg. I had not had a facial in, I mean, maybe two years, a really long time. I really needed one. Just looking at my face, I'm like, I desperately need a facial. I texted her, and she had me come in on the 4th of July, which was. Was perfect because we couldn't really celebrate the 4th because Jack had a day camp. And so I wanted to do something on the fourth. And so I was like, okay, here's my little special thing. On the 4th, I'm gonna get a facial. And she gave me a great facial, and she was just so enthusiastic about it. She was like, oh, this is great. Oh, we're getting so much done here. This is so satisfying.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's good.

[Elizabeth Craft]

She was so into it that it got me me excited. And it was a great facial that I really needed. And so I just, you know, whenever somebody loves their job and is passionate, it's so inspiring.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So I wanted to give Lenny a gold star for being a wonderful esthetician.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Excellent. Well, gold star to Lenny. The resource for this week. Quick reminder that Bookshop Summer Reading Challenge just began and I am so excited that we are hosting it in the Happier Hours app. It is a 30 day challenge where any reading counts. You can novels, magazines, a few pages before bed, picture books, whatever you're reading. And you can still join to compete for the 500 gift cards and book prizes while building your happiness boosting habit of reading. Sign up for the challenge on the [e-mail] and speaking of reading, Elizabeth, what are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am reading the Other side of Midnight by Sydney Shelley.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I am reading Round the Bend by Neville Schutz. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Make a decision and make it work. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you to our executive producer Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada. And remember, if you have not subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, you can do so. It lets you listen to completely ad free. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app that is lemonadapremium.com.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And here's your rhyming reminder. If the show sparks joy in your soul, nudge others to enroll. Word of mouth truly is how people hear about our show. We so appreciate it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Robert Ruben, thanks for joining us. Onward and upward, Elizabeth. Your skin really does look great. I can tell that you look very fresh.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Smooth.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Does it feel smooth?

[Elizabeth Craft]

It does. It feels really nice and smooth.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's great. Very satisfying. From the onward project.