Ep. 581: Narcissist? Codependent? Panic Attack? Maybe Not. Plus a Quick Cure for Worry

Summary

Podcast Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin

Episode 581: Narcissist? Codependent? Panic Attack? Maybe Not. Plus a Quick Cure for Worry

Release Date: April 8, 2026
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft

---

Episode Overview

In this lively and reflective episode, Gretchen and Elizabeth focus on practical strategies for happiness by discussing the importance of avoiding self-diagnosis with clinical language, reframing worrying habits, and using everyday tools to ease anxiety. The episode is colored with personal anecdotes, listener stories, and a spirit of curiosity. They also share engaging community feedback and discuss progress on their personal “26 for 26” lists—themed goal lists for the year.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Updates and Whimsical Habits (01:23–05:18)

• Whimsy Walls: Listener Shannon shares about creating a “wonder wall” at home, inspired by Randy Pausch’s “last lecture.” Anyone can write or draw something awe-inspiring or whimsical.
• Collecting Loose Change for Novelty: Connie recalls an elderly couple who saved change and used it for new experiences, like trying unfamiliar items from Trader Joe’s.
• Anchor Date Planning: Deborah avoids scheduling indecision by inviting friends to a set time and place—removing back-and-forth and making gatherings more likely.
• Read 25 in 25 Challenge: The hosts celebrate their reading challenge being recognized as a Webby Award honoree and discuss their own reading habits.

2. Try This at Home: Avoid Self-Diagnosis (05:18–10:14)

• The Problem with Self-Diagnosis:
  • Gretchen cautions against casually using terms like “ADHD,” “codependent,” or “narcissist” unless under professional guidance. Instead, describe feelings or actions specifically.

    “Sometimes clinical labels can obscure what’s really going on. It can make us think a situation is more dire than it is…” – Gretchen (05:28)

• Real-Life Example:
  • Gretchen shares a story where her daughter Eleanor was said to have had a “panic attack” at camp. The label misled Gretchen into thinking of a clinical emergency instead of the more likely scenario: a young child got scared and disoriented swimming in a lake.

    “That word…clouded my vision and it made me not really understand.” (06:24-07:18)

• Reframing Language:
  • Using non-clinical words like “rattled” helps Eleanor process stressful situations; the hosts note how word choice can make events feel more or less manageable.

    “It was a word that feels manageable.” – Gretchen (09:34)

• Care with Labels:
  • Elizabeth notes that some terms (“narcissist,” “codependent”) have specific, serious definitions and shouldn’t be thrown around lightly.

3. Happiness Hack: Photograph Your Peace of Mind (13:53–15:57)

• Photo as Proof & Memory Aid:
  • Gretchen suggests snapping photos of habitual tasks (e.g., unplugging the iron, locking the door) to relieve anxiety about whether you’ve done them. This can break the cycle of nagging worry or obsessive checking.

    “You can check and it has the date on it…and you can be like, ‘Oh, I did remember to lock the door.’” – Gretchen (15:25)

• Elizabeth expands on appliance safety:
  • She prefers appliances with auto-shutoff to remove the worry entirely, but notes the hack is still valuable for things that can’t be automated.

4. Personal Progress Check-In: Yearly Themes & 26-for-26 Lists (16:20–24:25)

• Elizabeth’s Theme: X-ray
  • Inward/outward perception, completed “Mad Men” rewatch, plans for cultural events, but struggles to “spend out” and do simple pleasures like painting her nails or hosting game night.
• Gretchen’s Theme: Neighbor
  • Tracking “26 Tickets in 2026” (new experiences/outings), aiming for more neighborly engagement, like helping people in the subway; enjoys being anonymous at the Met but is intentional about situational kindness.
• Progress Mindset:
  • The hosts reassure listeners that doing even one new thing from a list is a win:

    “The question is, have you done even one more thing than you would have otherwise done? Because…that’s a victory.” – Gretchen (24:03)

5. Four Tendencies Tip: Rebels Disguised as Upholders (25:49–30:57)

• Listener Margaret’s Identity Enlightenment:
  • Margaret realized she’s not the upholder she thought, but a “rebel tipping to questioner.” She reframes Gretchen’s typical advice for rebels (information, consequences, choice) into “input, outcomes, options.”

    “Input: You aren't the boss of me…these are just possibilities…options feels open-ended.” – Margaret (27:47)

• Insight for Listeners:
  • Rebels can “appear” upholder-like if rules match their chosen actions. That distinction is key; Gretchen notes terminology and personal definition matter hugely for self-knowledge.

6. Demerits & Gold Stars (31:05–33:32)

• Happiness Demerit (Gretchen):
  • She tends to leave clothes everywhere due to frequent changing and wants to adopt a “three-minute rule” for tidying up.

    “If I take two minutes and do it now, it'll save me from having to take 20 minutes and do it later.” – Gretchen (32:17)

• Gold Star (Elizabeth):
  • She gives a gold star to TSA workers who managed long lines and stress (especially during government shutdowns) with professionalism and kindness.

7. Resources & Recommendations (33:32–34:56)

• JFK Book:
  • Gretchen recommends her own book 40 Ways to Look at JFK—an unconventional, short biography of John F. Kennedy, ideal for Mother’s or Father’s Day gifts.
• Current Reads:
  • Elizabeth: “The Client” by John Grisham
  • Gretchen: “Joyful Anyway” by Kate Bowler

8. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On language:

  “So often just reframing something, as we always discuss, makes a difference.” – Elizabeth (09:36)

• On self-knowledge:

  “With greater self-knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values.” – Gretchen (36:43)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Listener Feedback & Fun Habits: 01:23–05:18
• Avoiding Self-Diagnosis: 05:18–10:14
• Happiness Hack (Photo Trick): 13:53–15:57
• 26-for-26 and Personal Check-Ins: 16:17–24:25
• Four Tendencies Tip: 25:49–30:57
• Demerits & Gold Stars: 31:05–33:32
• Book Recommendations & Wrap-Up: 33:32–34:56

---

Episode Takeaways

• Be mindful and precise with language, especially around mental health and personality disorders—labels matter!
• You can use simple hacks (like smartphone photos) to ease everyday anxieties and worry.
• Setting even aspirational goals leads to more joy, even if you don’t “finish” the list—progress is the point.
• Self-knowledge is a happiness accelerator; be curious about your own patterns of behavior and rethink assumptions.
• Small, neighborly acts add up to a friendlier, more intentional life.

To join the conversation or share your own stories, visit: happiercast.com/581

---

Transcript

[A]

What if the life you built online suddenly became real and completely out of your control? In Carol Claire Burke's debut novel, Yesteryear, Natalie is a tradwife influencer with a picture perfect life and millions of followers. Until she wakes up at 1855 and everything she's been romanticizing becomes something she has to survive.

[B]

Carol Claire Burke is also the co host of the podcast Diabolical Lies, and readers are calling this book impossible to put down with a twist that's completely off rails in the best way. Yesteryear is available now in print, audio and ebook. Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about strategies and solutions for living happier lives. This week we'll talk about why you might want to avoid self diagnosis and we share a super quick and easy hack for people who are prone to worry. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City, and joining me today from Kansas City is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. Elizabeth, I wish I were with you in kc.

[A]

Me too. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer who lives in la. But yes, I'm coming to you from what we call the Bunny room because of the wallpaper in Kansas City.

[B]

Gretchen. So fun. Well, before we jump in, a few updates, Shannon wrote, I want to share a little whimsy. I read the last lecture by Randy Pausch and he mentions that he won the parent lottery as they let him draw on a wall in his house as a kid. In an effort to emulate that and provide myself, family and friends with an opportunity for whimsy, we created a wonder wall in our upstairs office. Anyone who comes over can draw anything on the wall that provides wonder or awe in their lives. It's been incredible to have our sons join us. How fun is that?

[A]

Yes, especially if you have a friend who's like a really good artist. I could see that being very cool.

[B]

Well, and on a less elevated twist on this, I remember that when I was growing up, a friend of mine, they sort of had an attic floor and up there you could draw on the walls as much as you wanted and there wasn't even an assignment like draw something. You could just scribble and doodle and oh my gosh, it felt so illicit. I still remember to this day the charge that we all got from writing on the wall. So I love that she's really turned it into something fun, but also ele I love it.

[A]

And then Connie said I was close friends with an elderly couple. Now Both passed, who collected their loose change in a large decorative bottle. Whenever it was full, they'd cash it in and decide what to do with the proceeds. Sometimes it went to necessary expenses or to help someone in need, but often they used it for some kind of novel experience, like dinner at a restaurant they'd never tried. Once they used it to go to Trader Joe's and bought all the oddball items they thought looked interesting but had never gotten around to trying. They pick up some really fun stuff, and they both got hooked on plantain chips in their 80s. I'm so grateful to have had important people in my life who continued to model curiosity and intentional exploration, even late in life.

[B]

This is so fun. You know, this reminds me of when we were in Japan. We bought a lot of sort of mystery foods and then just tried them. There is sort of this thing where you look at a package and you think, ooh, I wonder what that tastes like. But are you actually going to buy it? This is a way to get yourself to actually buy the plantain chips or whatever.

[A]

Yes. And then Deborah had a comment about something we talked about with creating an anchor date for people. Deborah said, I really hate the dithering that often occurs when making plans with others. This may seem harsh or inconsiderate of others, but my husband and I have found this tactic very helpful in getting together with friends. Instead of saying we should get together sometime, we contact friends and say, we're having lunch at the bistro on Thursday at noon. Care to join us? All they have to say is, yes, see you then, or no, sorry, can't make it. There's no jockeying for different dates, times, or places. It's amazing how often friends suddenly realize they are free for lunch on Thursday if no one else is available, we have a lovely lunch, just the two of us.

[B]

Well, I love this, right? Because it's just, again, it's scheduling is life. And whatever you can do to make scheduling easier is a win.

[A]

Yes. Great idea.

[B]

And then finally, I just want to share that our Read 25 and 25 challenge was named as an honoree in this year's Webby Awards. So if you don't know, the Webby Awards are often called the Internet's highest honor, so to be selected from so many entries is really a big deal. So we wanted to say thank you to everyone and give everybody a huge gold star for everybody who joined us for read 25 and 25, and to bookshop.org of course, for their support. It's so gratifying to See this effort around reading recognized in this way. And of course, we couldn't have done it without the listeners who joined in to read. I've been curious, are you still doing your read 25 and 26 now, Gretch?

[A]

I kind of have fallen off a bit, but I'm trying to get back into it. I started a book on the plane.

[B]

Yeah, I love reading on planes. That's some of my favorite reading.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So this week, our try this at home suggestion is to avoid self diagnosis.

[A]

So explain this, Gretchen. I think I know what you mean, but explain.

[B]

Okay, so the idea is, unless you are an expert, which of course some people are experts, or you are in the care of an expert who has really helped you dialogue in on this, avoid using clinical language. You might say, well, I feel disengaged and in focus, not, oh, I have adhd, or I'm accustomed to putting my family first. I'm not saying I'm codependent. You don't say your spouse is a narcissist. You might say, my spouse is acting selfishly. And the reason to do this is that sometimes clinical labels can obscure what's really going on. It can make us think a situation is more dire than it is. It can make us jump to certain kinds of assumptions and conclusions. And if we don't know that much about it, we might not even be accurate at all in what we think certain terms mean or convey.

[A]

Yes, well. And you had this experience with Eleanor once?

[B]

Well, I really did. And Eleanor was in summer camp. She's probably in second or third grade, so she was young. And they were swimming in a big cold lake. Right at the beginning they called and they said Eleanor had a panic attack in the water. And I do have a tendency to be quite literal. I think I instantly was like, okay, she has been diagnosed with a panic attack. Therefore, what do I need to go get her? Is this a big issue? Like now, looking back on it with hindsight, I think somebody just said, wow, she got really nervous and rattled swimming and she freaked out. And they called it a panic attack. But calling it a panic attack to me, well, they're the authority. And they're probably like, you know, like a 22 year old camp counselor. But that word. I feel like instead of clarifying things, it clouded my vision and it made me not really understand. Now, the thing is, Eleanor has a really, really bad sense of direction just in life. And I can easily imagine that she was. She was very little. So she's little. She's in this dark, cold Lake. And she's not that great a swimmer, and she's looking around and she's disoriented, and she just gets scared. But if I had understood it that way, I think I would have responded much differently. And so I think that the use of that term was confusing. We weren't using it correctly. And in the end, I was like, well, what do I do? What do I do? And then a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist said, well, why don't you just wait and see what happens? It turned out not to be a big deal, which was incredibly fortunate. I don't want to minimize the importance of coming to these kinds of conclusions or people who are knowledgeable using them in a knowledgeable way. But I do think sometimes we reach for these terms. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I think as they've become more understood, like, the more people understand the concept of a narcissist.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then you start just throwing it around. Throwing around these terms like codependent. Yeah. And in fact, there are very specific definitions, and they are very serious. And so you don't want to just casually be calling someone a narcissist when it really is like a diagnosis.

[B]

Right, right. Well. And then back to Eleanor again. Something happened many, many years later. I think she was in 10th grade, she was in an exam, and she sort of just lost it. She felt overwhelmed and couldn't finish the exam. And in talking to her later, what turned out had happened is she had looked at a problem, and she's in a polder. And I think what happened is she saw that she had no idea how to approach a problem, and she panicked. But in talking to her about it later, I was like. I used the word rattled. I think I've talked about this before. This is a really comforting word for Eleanor. I was like, well, you just felt really rattled. You looked at the picture and you got rattled. And she's like, yes, I got rattled. And I was like, well, looking at it now, what do you think happened? And she looked at it and she was like, oh, my gosh, I just misread the problem. I do know how to solve it. It was a graph that was presented in a slightly different way. And so what happened is she got really flustered, then sort of wasn't able to concentrate and focus and think it through. She did get rattled. But I think that using a word like rattled, which isn't minimizing. I wasn't saying it wasn't serious or it wasn't unpleasant, but it's a word that feels manageable.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it doesn't feel clinical.

[A]

Yes, because so often just reframing something, as we always discuss, makes a difference.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you don't want to overstate the problem. Again, not that many people don't have all of these issues. Yes, but you don't want to just slap it on somebody for no reason.

[B]

Exactly. Well, let us know if you do try this at home and what you think of avoiding self diagnosis. Have you found yourself doing this? What does it look like for you? Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an [e-mail] or as always, you can go to the show notes this is happiercast.com581 for everything related to this episode.

[A]

Coming up, we've got a happiness hack that will ease your mind. But first, this break.

[B]

This episode is sponsored by Daily Look. I have to say, I hit that moment recently where the weather finally started to shift and I realized I have nothing to wear for spring. That's why I love Daily Look. You get your own dedicated personal stylist, an actual person who curates a box of clothes based on your body shape, your preferences and your lifestyle. It's not an algorithm and you get the same stylist every time, which makes such a difference.

[A]

You can try on up to 12 premium pieces at home, which is great because you can actually see how things fit with your real life, with your shoes, your sketches, schedule, everything.

[B]

Yeah, I just got my latest Daily look box and my stylist absolutely nailed it. I got a great lightweight jacket and a dress that I would never have picked out for myself, but I put it on and loved it. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code HAPPIER for 50 off your first order. Once again, that's DailyLook.com for 50% off. And make sure you use our promo code Happier so they know we sent you one last time. Dailylook.com and promo code Happier. This episode is sponsored by hers. There is so much noise around weight loss right now. There are so many trends, opinions and approaches, it can be hard to know what actually makes sense for you. That's what's helpful about hers is that it's not a one size fits all solution. You're connected with a licensed medical provider who looks at your specific situation and determines if treatment is right for you. If it is, they create a personalized plan which goes beyond medication. You get ongoing care, adjustments if needed, and support that helps you make steady, realistic progress.

[A]

Yes, that's what stands out to me. It's not about completely overhauling your life overnight. It's about having a plan that fits into your routine with tools to help you stay consistent, feel like your best self again. Visit forhers.com happier to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you that's F O R H e. Happier. Weight loss by hers is not available everywhere. Prescription required. See website for full details and important safety information and restrictions. I have been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately, trying to focus more on quality over quantity. Fewer pieces, but ones that are well made and easy to wear every single day. Gretchen, you know what I'm going to say. I love quince for that quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials. They have 100% European linen, organic cotton, super soft denim with styles starting around $50. And Gretchen, I love their accessories.

[B]

Quince lidden tops have become my go to. The fabric feels substantial, but it's still easy to wear and it does not cost what I thought quality linen would cost. Refresh your spring wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com gretchen for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to q U-I-N c e.com gretchen for Free Shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Gretchen okay, Gretch, we are back

[A]

with this week's Happiness Hack.

[B]

Okay, so I am increasingly understanding how you can use photographs in a way other than just as a photograph. So, like one thing is you can use it as a photo log. So it's almost a don't break the chain because every day you'll take a picture of yourself standing at the top of the mountain that you're hiking on. Or you take a picture of whatever it is, you can use it. That way. You can use it if you're in a parking lot and you're worried that you're gonna forget where you parked.

[A]

I do that all the time.

[B]

It's super helpful, right? So it's a photograph. It's just like an aid to your memory. So here's another clever way to use a photograph. So let's say you are a person who is prone either to do this or to worry that you've done this. Something like, did I turn off the oven? Did I unplug the iron? Did I lock the door? Some people really fuss about that. They get very worried. Like, did they do it to the point where sometimes they have to turn back and check or, you know, call somebody. Will you check? And one of the issues is because we do these things all the time, they're very hard to remember because you've locked the door a million times. So, like, it's very hard to remember on any particular day whether you've done it. You rarely do something. You remember it much more vividly. But if it's a habitual action, it's very hard to remember. Have you taken your medication? All these kinds of habitual actions can be hard to remember. So you can take a picture. You can say, like, I'm going to take a picture of myself unplugging the iron. Because if I say to myself, probably the fact that you took the picture will help you remember. But then you can check and it has the date on it, and you can be like, oh, it's from this morning. I did remember to lock the door, or whatever it is.

[A]

Yes. I could see that being so helpful. For people who are just plagued by these nagging worries, what's nice is increasingly, I think things turn off after 45 minutes. So, like, I like knowing. I'll say, did I turn off the iron? I'll go, well, even if I didn't by now, I'm sure it's turned off. Or a curling iron that turns off after an hour. And when I buy something, I always try to make sure it has that feature.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now, that doesn't help with locking the door.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or taking medicine. But, yes, any trick for these things is helpful.

[B]

Well, the best thing, like you say, is to just not have to do it at all, to just delegate it to the machine itself. Or like, my electric kettle just turns off, which is an advantage because if it was on the stove, it would. You know, I burned out a couple kettles back, you know, in the past because I accidentally just let them burn away. So it's good if you can do that, but if you can't, taking a picture of it is a good solution as well.

[A]

Yes. And the photo in the parking lot is a game changer.

[B]

So that's a game changer. And now I know yourself better question. Okay, how are you doing in your design year? It's the one word theme. It's the 26 list. It's the move 20, 26 challenge. We're 100 days in, and that is a really good reminder to stop, reflect, and see. Okay, am I doing this to the degree that I want to? Have I even remembered what's on my list? Elizabeth, you and I were talking about it, like, sometimes we just Forget what's on our list.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

How are you doing with your theme? Remind everybody of your theme and some of the highlights of your list.

[A]

My theme is X ray because I wanted to have X ray vision both inward and outward. I don't know how I'm doing on that, Gretchen. I feel like my outward X ray vision may be going better than my inward X ray vision. But as for the theme, I did, as I've mentioned, I'd been going through my Mad Men rewatch. I finished that. That was delightful.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Another thing that I want to do is go to 2 LA live talks. I've talked about that. And you always do the LA Live talks, so they have very interest speakers. I just bought a ticket to see my favorite Lena Dunham in May, so that's going to be halfway done as of May. Yeah. Then there's my 100 orange theory classes. I'll talk more about that later. One thing I want to do, Gretchen, is paint my nails at least twice a color. And I haven't done that. And it's. That is kind of a spend out thing where I have been to the nail salon and I've thought, oh, should I get my nails painted red or painted whatever color? And I'm like, no, I'll hold off on that. I don't know why, Gretchen. I don't know why I do this. I'm aware of it.

[B]

That's such a spend out thing where it's somehow like, why would I waste it now? Or like, why would I do it now? And maybe later it would be better.

[A]

Yes. So that's kind of funny. It's on my mind. I'm aware of it and I haven't done it. Have not had my game night party, although I've thought about it and I realized with that I have a little bit of a chagrin of like, well, what if people don't want to come have a game night? So I need to get over that because people do love to play games and if they don't, they could just hang out. So I'm not gangbusters, but I feel like I'm aware and doing stuff and thinking about stuff. How about you?

[B]

I set myself the goal of having 26 tickets in 2026, which is a lot. I'm up to 10.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I've been making good progress. I had planned a perfume party with two friends, but then one of them had to cancel. So that was sort of frustrating because we were very excited and then that had to move. I am working on a podcaster gathering, which was one of them. That's underway also. Like a reunion with high school friends that is also underway. So those are things that if they actually come to fruition, that will be really good. Now, you mentioned Lena Dunham. And you know, on my list for rewatching was Girls, and I haven't started it yet, and I know that once I start it that I'm gonna. But I always find it hard to start a new show somehow.

[A]

It can be hard to dive in. Here's a question for you. So I had on my list meet either Amy Phillips or Lena Dunham. Now, I don't think I'll meet Lena Dunham when I go to the Talk, but I did do with Amy Phillips, who's the host of my favorite podcast, Drama Darlings. I went to a Zoom hangout. Oh. And I was talking. You know, we. Everyone was talking and we had a show and tell of Bravo items. And I had my coasters that were mug shots of different housewives.

[B]

I've seen those on your treadmill. Yes. They're on your treadmill desk. Yes. Oh, that's so funny.

[A]

So does that count, do you think if I talk to Amy Phillips on a Zoom hangout, do I count that as having met her?

[B]

I think you count that.

[A]

Okay. Zoom is just such a pale stand in for like a real meeting, but I guess it counts.

[B]

How many people were in the call?

[A]

Probably maybe 13.

[B]

Oh, okay, then I think that definitely counts.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, no, everybody was chatting and talking. It was a hangout.

[B]

Yeah. It wasn't like having coffee with her. But that's not really realistic. I think that counts for sure. Okay, because you think is that the equivalent of standing in a book signing line and saying hello to somebody as they sign your book?

[A]

Right. Yes. And it's more than that in the sense that we were actually talking.

[B]

Yes. So. Yeah, right. No, there was like more engagement than just that. Okay, that's good. One thing I've been doing really well is I've been walking faster because I tend to like amble along and which is good, but it's better to walk faster. And I have really been sort of remembering to pick up my pace. And I've started doing this good thing at the Met where I'll go to the Met and I'll just wander around the way I usually do. And then when I feel like I'm ready to go, I take 10 minutes and do like a 10 minute walk up and down the corridors, which I actually really enjoy because I like feeling like I visited the A lot of the Met, you know, recently. So that's very satisfying. There's always sort of cool things to see. Now, I'm not speed walking because, you know, it's the Met. I don't want people to feel like I'm doing laps.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I'm definitely walking briskly. I would say briskly for me, because I am a slow walker.

[A]

Gretch, now that you're at the Met every single day, do people recognize you who work there? Do they say hello or are there just so many people through there every day? They don't. Interesting.

[B]

Now that kind of brings me to my one word theme, which is neighbor.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which you might say. Well, one of the things, Gretchen, you could do to be neighborly would be to talk to the guards, because I never do talk to the guards, so I don't do that. So, no, they don't seem to recognize me. And we never engage. I kind of like being there and just being lost in my own thoughts. I think I would find it. I would prefer not to have to engage with people or be like, oh, is Pete working today? Or whatever. I like being there by myself, just in this bubble. But I am trying to be much more friendly in my neighborhood. Saying hi to people who have dogs, making a little chit chat. And one of the things that I've decided is one of my neighborly things that I'm gonna try to really go out of my way to do is if somebody is in the subway with a stroller, really go out of my way to try to help them up the stairs. Like, I would. I would do it if they were right in front of me. But now I'm like, I'm really trying to keep an eye out. That's a lot of people that have to go up and down those stairs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's so much easier if somebody carries the bottom for you. And I feel like I look very unintentional. You know, like, people are like, oh, yeah, she seems like a nice lady. So that's the kind of neighborly thing I'm trying to give. It's not that I. I don't feel like I'm being inconsiderate, but I do feel like I often walk around very absent mindedly. And so maybe I don't notice that there would be an opportunity to be neighborly, to lend a hand, because I'm just not paying attention. So I'm really just trying to be much more situationally aware of. Are there ways to be just a little bit friendly or a little bit Helpful in a neighborly way.

[A]

That's great. Yeah. The stroller. That's much appreciated by someone trying to get a stroller up those stairs.

[B]

I know, I know you think, well, wouldn't I automatically help? And it's just like if they weren't right in front of me, I might not see, oh, this person is five feet behind me. Maybe I should pause and help them. You know, that kind of thing.

[A]

Well, Gretch, I'm dying to hear if listeners are getting through their lists.

[B]

Yes, it's 100 days.

[A]

I know in my Facebook group we have a Happier in Hollywood Facebook group, and many of Those members have 26 for 26 lists. And people will mention it often, like, oh, it's on my list to go to la and my daughter and I are going in the fall. Where should we stay? And, oh, it was on my list to do, you know, a bike trip or whatever it may be. So I know it's on people's minds because they do mention it.

[B]

And here's the thing that's such a good reminder. Don't feel defeated if you don't do all 26 things. The question is, have you done even one more thing than you would have otherwise done? Because you even one trip to LA that you wouldn't have thought to do if it hadn't been on your list, That's a victory. Of course, we all want to get the perfect score, but you win even if you don't get all of them done.

[A]

Okay, Gretch. Coming up, we've got a four tendencies tip. But first, this break. Are you a trailblazer, a risk taker? Someone with countless tales of epic adventure? Well, I'm not quite there yet yet, but I'm working on it. Even the boldest among us started small, daring themselves to reach greater goals each day. If you're looking to take on a challenge like that, the Defender is too. It's a vehicle built for those capable of great things, whether you're charting new territory or just escaping the city for the weekend.

[B]

The Defender, engineered to meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. An icon reimagined designed for a new generation of explorers. Choose from the Defender 90, 110 or 130. Seating up to eight adventurers with a tough, tested exterior, a modern and functional interior, and intelligent tech like 3D surround cameras and the Pivi Pro infotainment system. Every journey feels limitless because like you, the Defender is capable of great things. Build your defender [e-mail] okay, we're back with the Four Tendencies Tip and our listener Margaret had an insight about herself that many other people might find to be illuminating.

[A]

Yes, she said. I thought my aha moments were behind me until I had the very recent revelation that instead of an upholder, I am in fact a rebel tipping to question her. Perhaps this truly blew my mind. The light dawned one day when I was wondering why I had just offered my help to my colleague and when he took me up on it, I dug my heels in mentally only fortunately and had a you can't tell me what to do moment. I had a lightning strike of understanding that took days to process and involved thinking about incidents and memories from age 3 onward. I'm 63, so that was a lot of thinking. I finally understood why the upholder badge had almost fit for such a long time, but didn't really feel right. It turns out that I do follow most rules and meet outer inner expectations. But it's because I've decided for various reasons that I want to do the actions associated with those rules, but I can't even think of them as rules or I want to do the opposite. I'll end this with something that might be helpful to share with other rebels. Before I had this identity enlightenment, I would become bristly and subconsciously vaguely annoyed when I heard you say to offer rebels quote information, consequences, choice. Once I had my self illumination I realized what was bothering me and how to reframe it it. I now think in terms of input, outcomes, options. One input. You aren't the boss of me giving me facts. You are providing feedback only I'll decide if something is a fact. 2. Outcomes. These are just possibilities. From your perspective, consequences sound like an authority figure trying to direct me. Three options, hard to verbalize, but choice feels like I have to choose from what you are offering. Whereas options feels open ended and I can create create other options of my own. Wow, Fascinating.

[B]

Okay, fascinating. So the big thing that I would say which is baffles me or I guess it now it doesn't baffle me, but it baffled me for a long time which is that rebel. It's not uncommon for rebels to think that they are upholders. Upholders never think that they are rebels and this is because upholders, if they choose to, they do everything the way as an upholder does it, but the way that it's coming out of them is very very different. So this makes perfect sense to me and I love the way Margaret is reframing information, consequences, choice. Because even the way that she's saying that choice feels like, well, you have to make a choice. A choice implies choosing, you know, A, B or C. Which one do you want? You're controlling me. Whereas options is like, there's an infinite number of options. And I don't even really quite understand these subtleties. Obviously, they make sense. Her personal. You know, we all have our own personal terminology. Like the way, I don't like a journey, but other people love a journey. We all have these sort of quirky word reactions. So I love that she has found this for herself. But it is very interesting that you could just have the wrong idea of what your tendency is. But that is one that's often confused. Surprisingly. Right.

[A]

Yes. I'm actually thinking of a friend I have who says she's an upholder. But I'm guessing, reading this, that she's actually a rebel. Ooh.

[B]

Can you think of an example of her behavior?

[A]

Or just because I know that she will flout rules if she doesn't think they're relevant, which is a very rebel thing, which. But an upholder would not be likely to flout rules. Yeah, so that's why I'm thinking that.

[B]

Yeah. When I'm talking to people or they're. They're taking the quiz or something, or they're thinking about it, they say like, well, when I talk about inner expectations and outer expectations, they're just like, well, if I want to do something, I can do it. That's meeting outer and inner expectations. And it's like, oh, no, that is not what I mean by that. Again, back to this idea of self diagnosis. One of the issues is, like, if you try to create a framework that's really trying to get at nuance, you really have to pay attention to what does a particular category actually mean? Because sometimes people will jump to a conclusion thinking, oh, the word questioner means X, Y, Z. Whereas you sort of of need to really look at the definitions before you decide. Like I always say to people, listen to all four descriptions before you decide which one fits you. Because sometimes I think people just are like, oh, that sounds like me. Instead of being like, oh, this other one actually sounds much more accurate. So I love that Margaret had this. What did she call it?

[A]

A Enlightenment.

[B]

Enlightenment.

[A]

Identity Enlightenment.

[B]

Yeah, Identity enlightenment. This is what we all need is the identity enlightenment. So I think that's fascinating. And again, we're talking about the four tendencies. If you don't know what we're talking about. Are you an upholder, a questioner? Obliger, a rebel? Go to GretchenRubin.com, you can take my quiz. You can learn all about the tendencies. It will be quite illuminating. So anyway, Margaret, thank you. I'm always looking for more insight onto the tendencies, so I love that.

[A]

Yes. Okay, Gretchen, now it is time for demerits and gold stars. And this week you are up with a happiness demerit.

[B]

Okay, now, I know this is a repeat Demira, but again, if you do it, then you get better. I don't know about you, but I often have to change my clothes three times a day, partly because I just always want to be wearing yoga pants and running shoes. So the minute I can change out of real clothes, I do. So if I, like, have to go to lunch with somebody and then I have to do something at night or the weather changes or whatever, I feel like I'm changing my clothes a lot. And if I'm not at a time where I have a lot of leisure, I'll just leave them out. And if a couple kind of rush days go by, they can really pile up. Now, to his credit, Jamie never complains about this, even though it's sort of like right in the center of everything is where I put my clothes. But I'm sure he doesn't like it and I don't like it. And I know if I just put them away every time, it never becomes a big undertaking. It's just like, take up your pants and hang them up. And so by giving myself this demerit, I really want to say if I take two minutes and do it now, it'll save me from having to take 20 minutes and do it later. And then it's like a whole thing that I have to do instead of just something that I do in the interstices of my day. It's not the one minute rule, because it probably takes more than one minute to put my clothes away, but I should have, like, a three minute rule. If I could put them away in three minutes, I should.

[A]

Yes. And it very well might take one minute if you actually pay attention. Might be even shorter than you think

[B]

I should time it, because I know we've talked about this, and a lot of times you're like, oh, it takes me like a half an hour to put on my makeup. And it's like, no, it does not take half an hour. Or like, it takes 10 minutes to drive to school. And you're like, oh, no, it does not take 10 minutes to drive to school. Really, Timing things often is surprising. And Elizabeth, how about you? What is your gold star?

[A]

Well, Gretch, I have to give a gold star to all the TSA workers out there. You know, there's been a lot of issues with TSA because of the government shutdown. And I know there have been long lines at airports. And I just want to give a gold star to the TSA workers because. Because I'm sure not getting those paychecks was beyond stressful. And many of them, most of them showed up, did their jobs, were very courteous. And it really makes you appreciate the work that the TSA workers do to get everyone quickly through security, which I think security usually does work so well and efficiently. I'm always surprised at how efficient it is. So just gold star to those TSA workers who help us get through the airport. Yes.

[B]

Yes. Gold star. The resource for this week. There's this new FXTV show called Love Story, John F. Kennedy and Carolyn Bessette. And I have not seen it, but this has gotten many people talking about the Kennedys. And so I wanted to let everybody know that I wrote a short, unconventional biography of jfk, which was such a joy to write, such a fascinating person, and it was such a joy to write that book. So if you're interested in jfk, it's also a short book. And the way that I do it, it's sort of only the most interesting parts. It's kind of hard to describe my approach. But it's called 40 Ways to Look at JFK. So if you're interested in JFK right now, check out my book. And Also, I wrote 40 Ways to Look at JFK and also 40 Ways to Look at Winston Churchill. And I know that every year people buy these books for Mother's Day and Father's Day. So if you're trying to get a jump on Mother's Day or Father's Day, I will recommend those books. And if you go to happiercast.com books you can read more about them and see if it's something that would be interesting to you or be a good gift. Yes, I'm going to listen. What are we reading? What are you reading?

[A]

I am reading the Client by John Grisham.

[B]

And I am reading Joyful Anyway by Kate Bowler. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Avoid self diagnosis. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

[A]

Thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.

[B]

And here's your rhyming reminder. If our show brightens your day, send others our way.

[A]

Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft and

[B]

I'm Gretchen Rubin, thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. So, Elizabeth, you and I finally invested in like a whole kit of equipment for Kansas City. How is it working?

[A]

Yeah, it is so nice to have it here, Gretchen. It makes such a difference. And now there's a free card table, so I just set it up on the card table. Instead of having to move that other table and then having to move and the lamp and the whole thing, now I just set up the card table. So it is a good system. Although my ring light issues continue.

[B]

You have some kind of magical effect on ring lights. It's baffling.

[A]

It is. Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here. We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you. You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?

[B]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me?

[A]

Me?

[B]

Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcast, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.