Ep. 583: Too Much Clutter? Searching for Lost Items? Try These Hacks. Plus a Self-Knowledge Question.

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin – Ep. 583: Too Much Clutter? Searching for Lost Items? Try These Hacks. Plus a Self-Knowledge Question.

Date: April 22, 2026
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on practical strategies for reducing clutter and finding lost items, with a primary focus on the transformative power of literally trying on every pair of pants in your closet. The discussion is relatable, lively, and sprinkled with Gretchen and Elizabeth’s characteristic warmth and humor. They also delve into a thoughtful self-knowledge question—are you nostalgic or expectant?—revealing how this mindset shapes personal habits and family dynamics.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Insights: Questioners, Obligers, and Accountability

• (01:56 – 04:44)
  • A listener, Kara, shares how understanding the "questioner" and "obliger" personality frameworks (from Gretchen's work) improved communication with her husband and helped her daughter understand roommate accountability.
  • Gretchen: "For some people, their children give them outer accountability. For some people, they count as inner... what obligers find to be useful for outer accountability really varies." (04:18)
  • Key takeaway: Providing context when dealing with questioners eases friction, and close relationships may not provide the best external accountability.

2. Try This at Home: Try On Every Pair of Pants

• (05:41 – 15:26)
  • Elizabeth’s Tip: Spring cleaning’s in the air, and the sisters urge listeners to try on every single pair of pants, rather than just eyeballing what fits or what is worn.
  • Elizabeth: "You have to try them on to be real with yourself about whether or not you're ever gonna wear them again. And if you're not, move them along to the next person." (05:51)
  • Pants Accumulate: Pants can stack up because they look similar, making it easy to ignore older or less-loved pairs.
  • Practical Consideration: If you have a stack so big you can't access them, it’s a sign they’re not being worn.
  • Dealing with Weight Fluctuations: Keeping "safety" jeans for potential weight changes rarely pays off in style or utility.
  • Gretchen: "The styles do change…you don't want to wear a jean that looks like it's from 15 years ago." (08:21)
  • The “Fifth Favorite” Rule: If you have many of one item (e.g., black pants), ask yourself if you’ll actually wear your fifth favorite, or if you’re just clinging to "I could wear them" thinking.
  • Gretchen’s Labeling Hack: Use coat-check tags to label the characteristics of lookalike items (e.g., "bootcut jeans" or "boxy white tee") to reduce decision fatigue.

Memorable Quotes

• Elizabeth: "The less you have in your closet, the more you feel you have because it's accessible, because you can see it." (11:54)
• Gretchen: "It is such a deep paradox." (12:19)

3. The Miracle of the Pants: A Serendipitous Story

• (13:14 – 15:26)
  • Elizabeth shares a story where, during a trip to New York and a forgotten dress for a gala, she discovers and borrows a pair of perfectly fitting black pants stored at Gretchen’s house by Eliza (Gretchen’s daughter).
  • Elizabeth: "I put them on and they fit perfectly…they’re now in my closet, one of my top pair of black pants."
  • Gretchen: "If you try on every pair of pants...you can give it to somebody who will wear them with great delight. And so then everybody benefits."

---

Happiness Hack: The Pocket-Emptying Habit

• (19:25 – 21:47)
  • Listener Danette suggests creating a habit of emptying pockets as you’re taking off clothes, which prevents lost items, ruined loads of laundry, and the accidental destruction of valuables.
  • Danette: “Coats, vests, hoodies, jeans and slacks all get a pocket emptying and I’ve had no laundry issues for over a year. Yay.” (20:32)
  • Gretchen: "You have to do this as a habit because if you’re just trying to remember, it’s so easy to forget." (21:03)

---

Self-Knowledge Question: Are You Nostalgic or Expectant?

• (21:48 – 28:20)
  • Gretchen explores a new distinction while researching her upcoming book about the "empty nest"—are you more nostalgic (past-oriented) or expectant (future-oriented)?
  • Gretchen’s Framework:
    • Nostalgic: Values memories, traditions, roots, may resist change, and have trouble letting go of the past.
    • Expectant: Energized by planning and possibility, forward-looking, but may rush transitions or neglect the value of traditions.
  • Elizabeth’s Reflection: She feels nostalgic about certain life phases but recognizes her behavior is generally expectant: "I am definitely looking ahead, trying to figure out the next thing rather than reliving yesterday." (25:40)
  • The sisters agree their family trends "expectant," rarely dwelling on old times except for occasional reminiscences.
  • Gretchen: "I think both our parents are expectant too...as a family, we're expectant." (25:56)
  • On family dynamics: If partners or family members differ (one nostalgic, one expectant), it can create conflict during transitions.
  • Gretchen to Listeners: Encourages feedback and examples to help refine this framework.

---

Other Memorable Moments

Decluttering Wisdom

• Gretchen: "If you say 'I could wear them', that means I do not wear them…that is a sign you’re not wearing something." (10:21)
• On decision fatigue: Labeling similar items helps "reduce decision fatigue and wear the things you like much more when you can easily identify them." (11:18)

Closet Overload Anecdote

• One friend’s closet was so packed she never opened it, living off 10 items draped over her bathtub—until decluttering revealed "so much more to wear." (12:19)

---

Demerit & Gold Star

Gretchen’s Demerit: Flossing Fumble

(31:13 – 33:27)

• Started flossing regularly after a conversation but lost the habit without conscious effort, likely after travel:
  • Gretchen: "It just finally occurred to me...wait a minute, I haven't been flossing for a long, long time." (31:35)
  • Uses the episode to recommit and suggests visible cues and having floss everywhere.

Elizabeth’s Gold Star: Easter Bunny Nostalgia

(33:31 – 35:47)

• On a trip to Kansas City, Elizabeth visits the Plaza’s traditional Easter bunny displays, appreciating the continuity and nostalgia.
  • Elizabeth: "I just give such a gold star to whoever at the Plaza puts those out or to the bunnies themselves for being this constant in my life." (34:26)
  • Gretchen: "It’s the kind of thing I forgot that I remembered…But of course, I remembered them with perfect clarity." (35:09)

---

Resources & Reading

• Mother’s Day Gift Reminder:
  • I Want You To Know journal for capturing and gifting shared memories. (Mentioned at 35:51)
  • Signed bookplates for Gretchen’s books are available for US and Canada listeners.
• What We’re Reading:
  • Elizabeth: Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg
  • Gretchen: Nonesuch by Frances Spufford (36:35)

---

Episode Recap

To declutter—and by extension, to increase your sense of possibility and happiness—make the time to try on every pair of pants you own. Let go of those “fifth favorites” and enjoy the paradox that less can feel like more. Build new habits (like emptying your pockets or flossing!) by linking them to routines and visible cues. Recognize how your lens—nostalgic or expectant—influences what you hold onto, what you let go, and how you transition through life’s phases. And don’t forget to relish (and share) the little traditions that make each season special.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:56 – Listener insights on questioners, obligers & accountability
• 05:41 – Try this at home: Try on every pair of pants
• 13:14 – The miracle of the pants: serendipitous decluttering tale
• 19:25 – Happiness hack: Pocket-emptying for lost item prevention
• 21:48 – Self-knowledge question: Nostalgic or expectant?
• 31:13 – Demerit: Losing a flossing habit
• 33:31 – Gold star: Easter bunny nostalgia
• 35:51 – Resource: “I Want You To Know” journal
• 36:35 – What we’re reading

---

Notable Quote of the Episode:

"The less you have in your closet, the more you feel you have because it's accessible, because you can see it, because you can imagine it with different things."
— Elizabeth Craft, (11:54)

---

Feedback, try-it stories, and insights about nostalgia vs. expectation are encouraged:
Connect with Gretchen and Elizabeth via Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Facebook, or email at [e-mail]

---

Rhyming Reminder:
“If you like this show, tell others you know.”

Transcript

[Elizabeth Craft]

Lemonada. You're managing work, home, late night school projects and your parents doctor's visits too. You track every detail, yet somehow it still feels like you're carrying it all. That is where Vivid Vault steps in your secure, connected health hub that brings everyone together. Upload your health data, link wearable devices and give trusted family members access to what matters most.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Imagine your mom's medication list, your fitness insights and your child's latest checkup notes all in one protected space. No more digging through the files or chasing portal passwords. Just peace of mind knowing your health story is safe, organized and shared only with those you trust. Because managing health should be shared and vividvault makes it simple for your whole village to stay involved. Prioritize your well being, protect your family's future. Sign up [e-mail]. Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about strategies and solutions for bringing more happiness into our everyday life. This week we'll talk about why you should try on every pair of pants and we pose an interesting Know yourself better question. Are you a nostalgic person or an expectant person? I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, you and I have had sessions where I basically force you to try on every pair of pants.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And yes, Gretch, you have helped me go through my jeans many a time.

[Gretchen Rubin]

One of my favorite things to do. But before we jump in, we have a few updates.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, this comes from Kara. She says your recent episode about how questioners answer questions gave me amazing new insight into a frequent source of conflict between me and my husband. I never really thought of him as a questioner, but after hearing this episode I think he definitely has questioner tendencies. I'm an obliger with some upholder tendencies and I tend to be pretty direct in my communication style. It drives me crazy when I ask him a question and instead of providing the information I wanted, he answers a slightly different question that gets at what he thinks might be motivating the inquiry Example Question what time is our son's soccer practice? Answer I could take him if I follow up with more questions trying to get a straight answer. He often perceives it as being interrogated while I get more and more frustrated. It leads to many dumb arguments. After listening to your episode about questioning questioners, I'm going to try providing more context and reasoning with each question I ask and see if that gets me more satisfying and direct answers on the first try. Another episode confirmed a phenomenon my daughter had observed. She's in her first year at college and she and her roommate have become very close good friends. They are both obligers, and her roommate is an especially caring and empathetic person who goes out of her way to help other people. Often my daughter was disappointed when her roommate would sometimes back out of plans they had made, such as going to the gym, which they had made to keep each other accountable for healthy habits. They still get along well. It's not a matter of not wanting to spend time together. She suggested to me that maybe they have become so close that they don't provide outer accountability for each other anymore. The next day I heard your episode about how married couples often aren't successful external accountability partners for each other, which confirmed our hunch.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So I love this. I love the questioner part. I love the obliger part. Yes, I'm married to a question or two and the more you can explain why you're asking, the less resistance you get from them providing information. It's just a step that if you front load that step, you will save yourself a lot of time and annoyance further down the road because asking questions of questioners can be an issue. And I love this example of how someone who's too close doesn't provide outer accountability. That's a really useful thing to know. For some people, their children give them outer accountability. For some people they count as inner. So each of us is different. And what different obligers find to be useful for outer accountability really varies. And so this is a great example of like maybe for Kara's daughter the roommate is good at outer accountability, but for the roommate it isn't good accountability. And so it's just a good thing to be aware of.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Absolutely.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And again, if you don't know what we're talking about, go to my website, go to gretchenrubin.com quiz and all will be revealed. I also wanted to mention Mother's Day is coming up on May 10th if you are planning to give one of my books as a gift. Because I know from previous years that often people do give my books as a gift. They might give the Happiness Project Outer Order, Inner Calm for people who are like dealing with clutter. Secrets of Adulthood. That's a very kind of gift book. I love all my books. If you want to add a personal touch. Melissa, you and I often talk about how personalizing things makes them feel more elevated. You can request free signed book plates, as many as you want, within reason. This is US and Canada only, because I will mail these. You can request [e-mail] bookplate but if you do do it quickly. There's sort of a lot of steps that have to happen for me to mail these book plates. So the sooner the better. I don't want to disappoint anybody by not getting them to you in time.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Nice addition to a gift.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And so this week, our try this at home suggestion is to try on every pair of pants. And, Elizabeth, you were the one who suggested this. Try this at home.

[Melissa]

What made you think of this?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I think everybody's in spring cleaning mode right now, and I have done this a few different times, and it is just so useful to try on every single pair of pants you own, because you have to try them on with pants. You can't just eyeball it. You have to try them on and to be real with yourself about whether or not you're ever gonna wear them again. And if you're not, move them along to the next person. Time to donate them.

[Melissa]

I think pants are a particular. Every kind of garment is different in its challenges. Pants seem to stack up. It seems like we do just accumulate more and more pants instead of getting rid of the ones. Maybe it's because they all kind of look alike when they're in a closet or on a shelf. Right. It just feels overwhelming to sort through and remember, what's the difference between this pair of jeans and that pair of jeans? Just as somebody who loves happiness bullying my friends into helping me clear their clutter, it is not at all uncommon to see people with dozens of pairs of pants like jeans. I remember I went to this one friend's house, and in a closet, she had a stack. So they were stacked up, and, I mean, it was, like, past my knee. And I thought, this is just a sign that you're not wearing any of them because there's no way you're gonna get the one that's, like, third from the bottom. That itself is like a visual clue that these are just not being worn at all. And so you're not looking for them,

[Gretchen Rubin]

you're not wearing them.

[Melissa]

They're not coming in handy. So pull out the stack, try them on, and start donating.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And I know for me, Gretchen, like, I lost 35 pounds.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So my. That's a big difference when it comes to jean size.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And part of me said, well, let me keep these in case I gain weight so I'm not out having to buy new pants. Well, one, luckily, I've kept the weight off now for a couple of years. But also, the truth is, whether you're holding on to jeans because you want to lose weight or because you're afraid you'll gain weight, by the time that happens, it's most likely the jeans won't even be in style and something you want to wear at that time. But right now, they are in style. So better to hand them off to somebody who will wear them now. Yes. Rather than hold on to them and then realize in a year or two years or three years that you no longer want to wear those jeans. Sometimes we think, well, jeans are jeans, but the styles do change.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And when it comes down to it, you don't want to wear a jean that looks like it's from 15 years ago.

[Melissa]

Well, listen, it's funny, I'm laughing as we're having this conversation, because you have, especially for an underbuyer, you have extraordinary patience when it comes to considering jeans, trying on jeans, weighing the pros and cons of different jeans. And I remember there was one point with our mother where she's like, I'm not going to go jean shopping with Elizabeth ever again. Our mother, who loves fashion and clothes. It's just too boring. Because it was just like one after another after another and the subtleties and like, what about this and what about that? But the same thing means that you're not going to want to wear something that you're like, okay, this just looks very, very dated. But here's another thing, and this is helpful to me with pants and also with things like a black sweater or some basic. You have to say to yourself, am I going to wear my fifth favorite of something?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Melissa]

If you have five pairs of jeans, be honest with yourself. Are there occasions where you wear your fifth favorite pair? Now, you could say, I have blue jeans, I have white jeans, I have black jeans. Okay? So consider those separate categories, Right. Because there's a place you're gonna wear white jeans that you're not gonna wear blue jeans or black jeans. Okay? So that's a separate category. It's not jeans. It's white jeans. Are you gonna wear your fifth favorite pair of white jeans? I'm not going to.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Now, I'm a person who doesn't like

[Melissa]

a lot of choice. I like to have a few favorites

[Gretchen Rubin]

that I wear over and over.

[Melissa]

And so I have really learned. I never get to that point. And I think even for people who really love clothes and love choices, they probably would be better off having more choices rather than more of a single specific category going deep. Because if you have four pairs that you like better, why are you ever gonna wear the fifth pair?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, And I finally applied that logic to some black pants. Like, I was holding on to black pants. In truth, I was never gonna wear just because I thought, well, these are nice black pants, I could wear them. But the truth is, I had three other pairs that I knew I would wear before I wore that pair.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay? So that is an outer order inner calm. When I was writing that book, I noticed that tell I could wear them. If you say I could wear them, that means I do not wear them. I haven't worn them, but it is conceivable that I could wear them. And that is a sign that you're not wearing something. I mean, so that's the question is, like, are you wearing them? Like, if you are wearing them, then that's good. But if they're just never getting used, then you just want to dig yourself out. One thing that I do, and I do this with white T shirts more than with pants, Actually with black pants, not jeans, but black pants. I've done this. Okay, so if you are going to have like a coat check at an event, let's say they give you these white tags. You can buy these white tags that are blank that you can write on with a Sharpie. And so I order those tags and I use them to be like, these pair of pants need a boot so that I know that they're long and I can only wear them with a boot or with white T shirts. I have somewhere it's like boxy white T shirt. Because I have some T shirts that are very boxy and then some that are long. And it just saves me time. And by doing that, I make sure I went through, I picked my favorites and I labeled them and then got rid of the other ones. And it's so much easier that way, because with things that are, like, very close to each other, the subtleties matter. You really do reduce decision fatigue and wear the things you like much more when you can easily identify them and you're not digging through a bunch of stuff that you don't like.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And that is the funny thing about cleaning one's closet, Gretchen, is that the less you have in your closet, the more you feel you have because it's accessible, because you can see it, because you can imagine it with different things. And the more stuffed your closet is, the less choice it Feels one has. So that is one of those truths that just over and over again, I have to learn.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It is such a deep paradox. But so often when I help people clear their closets, they say, now I feel like I have so much more to wear. I have a friend. True story. Where her closet was packed so tightly with clothes that she didn't even open the door because it was so hard to shut the door after she opened it. And she just had, like, the same 10 items that she kept draped over her bathtub.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's in New York.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, she had so many clothes, she couldn't wear any of them. And so she was. But then when we went through, we got rid of bags and bags and bags. They all fit in the closet. And then she could open the closet, look at her clothes, and she's like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I have a whole new wardrobe. It's just been moldering in there. But, Elizabeth, we have to talk about the miracle of the pants. This is just. This is maybe cuts the opposite direction because it's like, hang on to the pair of pants. But these were really good pants. It's just that Eliza didn't have room to store them in her tiny apartment. So tell the story of the miracle of the pants.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. So I was in New York recently, and I was going to a gala event, and I forgot my dress. Gretchen, which was, you know, sent me into a tailspin. Adam FedExed my dress, but it did not arrive, Even though he FedExed it for next morning delivery. So I borrowed a top from a friend, a very beautiful black top. And I was trying to figure out what pants I was gonna wear with it or skirt. And the pants I had.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You had great shoes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I had beautiful shoes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You had the top, and you had these fabulous shoes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And the black pants that I had brought with me to New York were really casual and absolutely did not look right. Your pants did not fit me. And so I said, well, will you look in Eliza's room and just see if she, by chance, has any black pants I could try on?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, because she stores stuff in her, like, childhood bedroom if she thinks she's not gonna be wearing it for a while. And she kind of rotates stuff in and out there or things that are out of season just so she has more room in her grown up apartment. So we do have, like, a lot of her clothes, but stuff that she likes, but she's just not wearing right now. Storage. So you and I go rifling through those drawers.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And we found in a drawer, like, stuffed in the back, a pair of black pants. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to try these on. And I put them on and they fit perfectly. And they went perfectly with the black top that I had and made the outfit look totally appropriate for this gala event. And it really. And not only that, Gretch, but the material of the pants, which I think we determined was maybe a silk crepe of some sort. I don't know if it had something synthetic in it, just fell out without any wrinkles. We didn't even have to iron or steam the pants. It was just like grab and go.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No, they were comfortable. They had pockets. They were so elegant. They just fit you perfectly. And then Eliza said you could keep them.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And I said, is Eliza gonna wear these pants? Because if not, I would love to take them. And I. They're now in my closet, Gretch. One of my top pair of black pants.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So this is the thing. If you try on every pair of pants and you realize you're not wearing it, you can give it to somebody who will wear them with great delight. And so then everybody benefits. So let us know if you do try this at home and trying on every pair of pants works for you. Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email at podcastretchenmoven.com as always, you can go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com583.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we've got a happiness hack related to Gretchen's recent demerit about slips of paper in her pockets. But first, this break. Gretch, Mother's Day is upon us. And one of my all time favorite Mother's Day gifts is the aura frame. Aura frame is a digital elevated frame that looks so good in any room. I just love to walk into my living room and see a picture of me and mom pop up on my aura frame. It's a digital frame that looks so elevated and great in a room and it's always gonna give you a wonderful memory.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And what I love is that those memories don't just live on your phone. You can actually see them every day. And with aura, you can preload photos before it ships. So it's ready from the very first moment it arrives. It feels really personal right out of the box. Make Mother's Day special with aura frames named number one by Wirecutter. You can save on the gifts moms love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $25 off their best selling Carver mat frame with code HAPPIER. That's a U R A frames.com promo code HAPPIER. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I have to say I was immediately obsessed with my Lola Blankets. The second I felt it, I knew this wasn't just another blanket. You think everybody needs one of these? It's the softness. It's the kind of thing where somebody touches it and instantly responds. And that's when you know it's a good gift. And that's why I think it's perfect for Mother's Day. It feels thoughtful and luxurious. You know, the way flowers don't. They're gone in a few days. But this is something you can use every day.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And the quality is incredible. No shedding, no peeling, and it's machine washable, so it's even something you can actually live with. For a limited time. Our listeners can get 40% off select Lola Blankets products with Code Happier at checkout. Head to lolablankets.com and use code HAPPIER. That's lolablankets.com code HAPPIER for 40% off. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you this Mother's Day wrap. Mom and the everyday luxury of Lola blanket.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures. Nothing huge. Just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day. And it really makes you appreciate having a car that feels solid and comfortable where you're not thinking about the drive, you're just focused on where you're going. That's what stood out to me about the Defender. It has that rugged design, but it also feels really thoughtful inside. And I like that. There's a full lineup from the two door 90 to the 110 and the 130 with seating for up to eight. So it really fits different kinds of plans.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And it's built with those durable, purposeful materials so you can actually use it without worrying about every little thing. It also has features that make driving feel easier, like Clearsight technology and the Pivi Pro system, so you can keep track of where you're going and everything you want to listen to along the way. Plus, with up to 89 cubic feet of cargo space and available three rows, it gives you a lot of flexibility depending on what you're bringing with you. Explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com okay,

[Gretchen Rubin]

this week's happiness hack comes from our listener, Danette.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, she says Gretchen's Recent demerit about slips of paper and pockets made me recall my New year's resolution for 2025. It ended up being one of my all time favorites as I resolved to empty the pockets of my garments as I took them off. Over the year, I spent much less time looking for various items, mostly gloves in the winter and lip balm year round. But the big payoff was what I didn't have to deal with. Near the end of 2024, I had accidentally washed an automobile fob costing me nearly $200 and which was a bit of a hassle to repair. Shortly after, I washed a brand new red lipstick which had a lower cost at 20 dol and a feeling of relief that the lid didn't pop off and wreck my dryer or the load of clothing. Prior to this, the occasional tissue that shed fuzz all over dark sweats was my biggest annoyance. But those larger back to back problems kicked me into a new habit. Coats, vests, hoodies, jeans and slacks all get a pocket emptying and I've had no laundry issues for over a year. Yay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So this is a great reminder. And you know what this reminds me of, Elizabeth, is our hack that you should always look behind you when you get up and leave. If you get up at a restaurant, if you get up from a bus, if you get up from a seat in an airplane waiting area, always make it a habit to look behind you. And the thing is you have to do this as a habit because if you're just trying to remember, it's so easy to forget. But if you really work on just every single time before you take off a garment, I think this would save so much time and effort for people.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, this is a great idea. I'm definitely going to start doing this now. I don't think I would do it with coats just because I like having a hat or gloves in my outer coat pockets. But obviously those aren't going into the wash, so I think that's okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But what about things like sunglasses, AirPods, stuff like that? Do you ever accidentally like I might leave things in the coat, but I think it's a good idea to check to see have I stuck anything else in there.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Good point. What I always end up Gretchen, to that is walking around, you know, like New York City with like three things of doggy bags in my pockets that I don't need because they're everywhere. And then I'm like, ugh, now I have these crinkly bags in my pockets. Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So great hack.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, Gretchen, it is Time for a know yourself better question.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, and this is a know yourself better question that came to me in the context of my book that I'm writing about the Empty nest, which I am rebranding as the open door. Because I'm constantly thinking about distinctions, particularly between parents. I keep thinking, like, how do people have a different attitude or perspective as they're dealing with the empty nest? How might they be the same or different from their partner, and how that might cause confusion or conflict? This is a distinction that I noticed. It applies to the empty nest stage, but it also just applies generally. So I want to spring it on you, hear what you have to think, and then I would love to hear from listeners because I'm just starting to, like, really work through these distinctions. So I would love to hear people's response. Okay, so this is what it is. Are you a nostalgic person or an expectant person? So in my observation, nostalgic people are the people who really steep themselves in memories. They love traditions, old jokes. They love family photos. They have a strong sense of family identity and roots. Okay, but every upside has a downside. And so it might be that nostalgic parents might have trouble clearing out outgrown toys or letting go of outdated rituals. They might really dwell on the way things used to be and resist forging a new path, even when the time comes for that. Then expectant people are people who orient themselves towards the future, so they rarely look back. They draw energy from planning, from possibility. Okay, but what are the downsides of that? Instead of enjoying each season of life and celebrating shared memories, they might rush through the phases of life. They might miss the opportunity to have the traditions that foster a sense of family continuity. They might push themselves or a child or a partner to move too fast, like, okay, let's retire now, or like, okay, time for grandchildren, because they're constantly looking to the future. So, Elizabeth, what do you think of those distinctions?

[Elizabeth Craft]

It's really interesting. I think I both, in different areas of my life, like, there's certain things I'm nostalgic about. Like, I'm very nostalgic about college. Like, I loved college. And I do find myself being very nostalgic and missing that time of life when you're young and that time right after college when everybody's up and coming and just starting out. Like Gretchen, I recently rewatched Mad Men, which is on my 26 for 26 listen. And I really felt nostalgic watching that for the time in my career. Like, they're all in or Most of them where they're kind of just on the rise. I just think that's such a fun, engaging, exciting, but scary time of life, and I miss that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, so let me stop you there, because now I'm wondering if I want to clarify or like, go deeper with this distinction, because I wonder if you're nostalgic for that feeling and yet it is not a guiding principle of your behavior. You don't act on that. And I think if you were truly a nostalgic person, you would act on it. You would have maybe a lot of framed photos from that time. You would go to reunions. You would maybe wear a lot of college swag. I don't know what else you might do. I wonder if there's a difference between longing for something in the past and being the nostalgic type. I need to think that through more.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's interesting because it's this question of

[Gretchen Rubin]

maybe what I'm trying to get at is how it shapes your behavior more than what do you feel like an emotional pull to. Because I do think that for some people, they really behave in a nostalgic way. And I don't see you behaving in a particularly nostalgic way.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Good point. Yes, I am very expectant. I think, in my behavior. I am definitely looking ahead, trying to figure out the next thing rather than reliving yesterday. How about you, Gretchen? What are you?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I'm expectant too, Elizabeth. And in fact, I think both our parents are expectant too. I think we're an all expectant family. And it's interesting because when you think like our mother and father, they grew up in North Platte, Nebraska, together. They knew each other starting in the third grade. But. But given that they really didn't reminisce as much as you might think that they would. I think if somebody described that to me, I would think that people would often be talking about things in the past and shared memories. And our family just doesn't do that. Every once in a while we'll do and we'll sit around and swap old stories and laugh about funny things that happened in the past. But I think we're much more expectant the way dad always said the next six months are gonna be very interesting. Yes, I think as a family, we're expectant.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Jack, my son, he's. He already just hates nostalgia. He doesn't like anything nostalgic. He doesn't want to look at baby pictures. He doesn't want to think about the toys he played with when he was Five years old. It makes him sad. Nostalgia makes him sad. He turns away from it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's so interesting because I think nostalgia, it might even mean bittersweet, but it is this sweet sorrow. But for him, it's like he doesn't get the sweet at all. He does not like it. Oh, that's so interesting. Interesting, yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So we'll try to show him a video of him as a baby or something and he does not want to see it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's so interesting. Well, you can see how in the empty nest phase, if you had a couple, one was nostalgic and one was expectant, this could cause a lot of conflict because they would really be sort of oriented in different directions and maybe not have much compassion for what the other one was talking about and wanted to do and enjoy and go through that transition. So listeners, I'm still just working through this. I'm trying to understand it. This is so interesting about Jack, really not liking nostalgia at all. Do some people really not like the idea of expectant? Do they not like thinking about the future? I can imagine that. What is the difference between sort of like enjoying thinking about a certain stage or missing a certain stage and like having it being an organizing principle of your life, which I think I'm really getting at that more. But anyway, it's all kind of in co ed right now. The world is my research assistant. Send me your insights, observations. If you read a quotation from a novel where this came up, if it's in a movie, let me know. I am thinking it through.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretchen. Coming up, you have a demerit related to a habit. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This message comes from Harvard Business School Executive education. Now is the time to invest in yourself and change the world with your voice. Our programs connect you with faculty at the forefront of their fields, introduce you to a global network of leaders, and help you step into your full potential. The next chapter is yours. Let us help you write it. Apply today to accelerate your future. Learn more at hbs Me Accelerate. That's HBS ME Accelerate.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You're managing work, home, late night school projects and your parents doctor's visits too. You track every detail, yet somehow it still feels like you're carrying it all. That is where vividvault steps in your secure, connected health hub that brings everyone together. Upload your health data, link wearable devices and give trusted family members access to what matters most.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Imagine your mom's medication list, your fitness insights and your child's latest checkup notes all in one protected space. No more digging through the files or chasing portal passwords. Just peace of mind. Knowing your health story is safe, organized and shared only with those you trust. Because managing health should be shared and vivid Vault makes it simple for your whole village to stay involved. Prioritize your well being, protect your family's future. Sign up [e-mail] Lately I've been trying

[Elizabeth Craft]

to simplify what I wear day to day. Just pieces that feel easy but still put together. I do not want to overthink it. And I have been reaching for quints a lot. No surprise there. Everybody knows my love for quints. I love their linen pieces. They're so breathable, but they still look polished. They're the kind of thing you could wear all day and not think about changing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And when I saw the price, I honestly double checked. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because Quince works directly with ethical factories. Like you, Elizabeth, I just find that Quince makes getting dressed simpler and the pieces actually hold up. Quince uses premium materials like European linen and organic cotton. So you're getting quality without the usual markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com Gretchen for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Gretchen for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Gretchen okay, Gretch, we are back

[Elizabeth Craft]

with demerits and gold stars. And this week it is your turn for a happiness demerit.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, this is a habit that mysteriously arose and then mysteriously vanished. And maybe the fact that it mysteriously arose explains why it mysteriously vanished. Okay, so was it in 24, Elizabeth, that you had the thing on your list about getting better about flossing? I don't think it was 2025. I think. Was it 2024?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I think it was.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, so anyway, you had mentioned this and in talking about our list, you were talking about flossing and the importance of flossing and why weren't you flossing and all that? And then I was like, you know what? I am not flossing. And I'm not even like feeling bad about it. I'm just simply not flossing. And I realized, well, that's not smart because we all know that we should floss. There's a lot of really good to floss. And the really nice thing was somehow just our conversation got me to start flossing either in the morning or at night. It sort of depended on the day I would floss. So I was flossing regularly. I just somehow that was enough. So that's a delightful thing where I just easily picked up this habit, which can be challenging for some people. But then something happened and I don't even know how long ago this was. It just finally occurred to me. I was looking in my cabinet and I saw the container of floss and I thought, thought, wait a minute, I haven't been flossing and I haven't been flossing for a long, long time. I guess I just didn't do it one day and never thought about it again. So, Elizabeth, once again, I'm hoping that a conversation that we have about flossing kickstarts me back into that habit because it does feel really nice. It wasn't even like I begrudge it. I like that feeling of having it makes your mouth feel more clean. I really like that feeling.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I'm guessing that at some point you took a trip and you didn't have floss or you were in a rush and so didn't floss on the trip, thinking, well, you'll do. You'll start back when you're in New York and then you just forgot about it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I think that's exactly right. I bet that is exactly what happened. Right. Because I hadn't done much to cement it into place. Yeah, it was just this conversation and so it didn't take much to knock it out of place. Okay, so now I think one thing is to like make sure that I have a lot of floss so that I get the visual cue too. Okay, good.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Put it in your sundry bag.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, put it everywhere. And Elizabeth, what's something that you want to give a gold star to?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, Gretchen, it's interesting because it's related to nostalgia, I would say, given our discussion earlier, but I was recently in Kansas City and I was at the Plaza, which the Plaza's a large outdoor shopping mall near our parents house. And it is somewhere we went all the time growing up and still go to. All the time.

[Gretchen Rubin]

All the time. Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

But every Easter season the Plaza puts out these large bunny figures all around the Plaza and they are very specific. There's the female bunnies and the male bunnies and they're wearing suits or dresses or different pants and. Yeah, they're very old fashioned.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, that's a good word for it. It's not like the kind of bunny that's on the egg dye that you see today with like sassiness. These are more like elegant, old fashioned kind of Easter bunnies.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And they're dressed in an old fashioned way. And anyway, I was home over Easter, which I usually am not, and so we went to the Plaza and I was able to see all the bunnies. Adam took a picture of Jack and me between two bunnies. And it was just so wonderful to see them in person. And I just give such a gold star to whoever at the Plaza puts those out or to the bunnies themselves for being this constant in my life. So I guess that does feel very nostalgic. At the same time, they're still there. So it's sort of an ongoing nostalgia.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right? Well, it's interesting because you sent me the picture, which was super fun. And it's the kind of thing that

[Melissa]

I forgot that I remembered.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But of course, I remembered them with perfect clarity.

[Melissa]

And so that was super fun for

[Gretchen Rubin]

me because I was like, oh, my gosh, the bunnies.

[Melissa]

Because it is the kind of thing

[Gretchen Rubin]

when you're little, like, you run your hands over them and you look at the difference between the different ones and you wonder where they're gonna be. They're just very iconic. I got so much pleasure out of seeing that picture because I'd forgotten about them, even though I remembered them so well.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And there's such a sign of spring.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There's such a sign of spring. Yeah. So gold star to whoever's in charge of the bunnies.

[Melissa]

Your work is appreciated.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, absolutely.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And now for the resource this week. Speaking of Mother's Day, here's one that

[Melissa]

is very popular as a gift, and that is the I want you to know journal. This is small book. And you fill it out. It has all these prompts and you fill it out. It doesn't take that much writing to prompt you to talk about the things you appreciate about someone, what you remember about them. If you're not that good at expressing yourself, it's a really good way to do that. And then it can make a really wonderful gift if you give it to somebody that you filled out. Because I want you to know that is what the journal is for. It was selected as one of the Today Show's gifts we love, which was a big honor, of course, you can look [e-mail] shop and Elizabeth, what are we reading?

[Gretchen Rubin]

What are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I'm reading Writing down the bones by Natalie Goldberg.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm reading Nonesuch by Frances Spufford. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Try on every pair of pants. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you to our executive producer Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple

[Gretchen Rubin]

Podcasts or go to lemonadapremium.com and here's your rhyming reminder. You know what I'm going to say, but I mean it most sincerely, Elizabeth. And I would give you a gold star if you like this show. Tell others you know.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward,

[Elizabeth Craft]

Gretch. Speaking of pants, when I was in Kansas City, mom was cleaning out her white jeans and I tried on every pair that she was donating and I didn't end up taking any. But I did do a lot of pants trying on in Kansas City.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You have a lot of patience trying on pants. I have to say. Listen, it's one of your minor superpowers.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I do.