← Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Ep. 584: Why It’s Helpful to Search for a Solution, Plus an Easy Hack for Staying Productive
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Foreign.
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Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about how to make our lives happier. This week we'll talk about why it's so helpful actually to search for a solution, and why leaving your laptop charger behind can boost your productivity. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister the sage, that's me, Elizabeth
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A
Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And Gretch, I am never without a charger. So yeah, okay, this will be interesting.
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B
Before we jump in, we have a few updates. First comes from Cadence, who said I wanted to share how I started my book club because, you know, we all love reading. I moved from Boston to Colorado and bought our first house in 2015. It was surprising to me that none of my new neighbors came over to introduce themselves and welcome us to the neighborhood. I had been looking forward to knowing my neighbors and I love reading, so I decided to start a neighborhood book club. I made a post on the Nextdoor app telling a little bit about myself and the kind of book that I like to read, which are varied, but I noted some of my favorites and suggested a book club meeting at my house, at least for the first time. And then we could Discuss how we wanted to go from there. I was pleasantly surprised, but also a bit overwhelmed that 47 people replied that they were interested. When the day came, only four showed up, which was actually a relief. Ten years later, the four of us continue to meet every six weeks, and it is always a highlight for me. Two people have moved out of the neighborhood, but to your point, the farthest one is about 30 minutes away and we rotate who hosts. Whoever is hosting next is the one who picks the book. I am so glad I put myself out there to make the invitation post and did not allow myself to feel any disappointment. And more people didn't come to that first meeting. So great.
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A
Yes. And that's the whole neighborhood idea that I keep saying I'm gonna do an Encino.
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B
Yes. But a few things I would point out. One of the things I always say with my book groups is whoever comes is the right number. There's never too few. If it's you and one other person, that is fine. And often you always end up thinking like, this is the right number, this is the best number. And Even though all 47 people didn't show up, I bet she still did make a connection with them. If what you really wanna do is introduce yourself to a neighborhood and gives you something to talk about, it's an icebreaker. It's a conversation starter. So even though you're like, well, we didn't have 40 people in our book club, it was still a big success. And she has this really tight, consistent book club. So I think that that's wonderful. And it's just a good example of it can feel awkward to put yourself out there, but the rewards are so great. And usually people respond very well. Maybe they kind of overestimated how much they would be able to show up, but they reciprocated your gesture, so that shows that they welcomed it. So it can feel awkward to do it, but usually people receive it very well. So that can be comforting if you're feeling a little bit like, oh, is this like a cringy thing to do? It's like, no, people like it. Yes.
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A
And then Gretch, we got this about Obliger accountability. She says, I know you often compile tips on how obligers create accountability, and this year I've been my most consistent with my habits yet since I've started using AI. Like most people, I do have mixed feelings about AI, but I cannot deny how much of a game changer it has been when tracking and reviewing my habits. I have very ambitious health and professional goals. For 2026. And after breaking down my goals into manageable tasks and adding them to my calendar, I've informed the AI tool I use of what my goals and timelines are. I've also booked a weekly check in meeting with myself on a Sunday. This is where I review the week and input all this feedback into the AI. It has served as a source of accountability because I feel like it's waiting for my updates each Sunday and it creates a summary of my progress week on week, which is highly motivating. What went well and what I need to focus on for the week ahead. It has been surprising how well it's working for me and I thought I'd share with you. Well, that's interesting, Gretch. AI as an accountability partner.
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B
Well, and I would point out that obligers vary dramatically in what kinds of accountability work for them. And so this is really great to hear from Vera that this works really well for her. Sounds like it's working really well for her. I will note that some obligers would not find this kind of accountability to be useful because, I mean, I was talking to an obliger friend and he was said that wouldn't work for me because I know that in the end it's not real accountability. So it's the kind of thing where if it works for you, that is great. This is a new tool, but no tool fits every hand. So if this doesn't work for you, there's plenty of other ways to create outer accountability. And we should just say like there are many, many bad things about AI, which we all know. But it's nice when there's something good. And it seems like this is something that's working really well for Vera.
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A
Yes.
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B
So now for the try this at home. Okay, this falls into the category of this is so obvious doesn't need to be said. But yes, I think it is a really helpful thing to keep in mind, which is to actually search for a solution if you face a problem.
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A
Yes. So this is one of our practical. Yes, try this at homes. I would say yes, explain.
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B
This is not transcend. This is not a deep insight to human nature. This is just like an obvious insight into human nature. Okay, so what I realize is a lot of times I'll be suffering from a problem or an annoyance and it just won't occur to me that there could be a solution to it. You think this is so idiosyncratic, this is so minor. There's no way that somebody has tackled this. Well, I have often been surprised at how random and seemingly inconsequential problems actually have very well developed solutions. And my favorite example of this is the armrest cover on a desk chair. Okay, I think I've talked about this before, but years ago, I have this very nice desk chair that's all fancy. And over time, the armrest had become cracked, and the fake leather or whatever that material is, was like peeling off. It was super ugly. And I thought, oh, my gosh, am I going to have to, like, wheel this thing across New York City to get it recovered? Am I gonna have to, like, put up with this forever or else, like, get rid of the whole chair? Which obviously would be ridiculous thing to do, like a whole nice chair, just because these little patches. But it was really bothering me. It was scratching my elbows and it looked terrible. And then somebody told me, oh, you can buy armrest covers, because turns out, I'm not the only one who experiences this. You just buy these things, they just slip on almost like a big no show sock. They're like that shape, and you just stick them on your armrest and they just cover your armrest. And the funny thing, Elizabeth, is you had the same problem.
- [08:38]
A
Exact same problem. Yes. And when you sent me these, I was so thrilled. And they work beautifully to this day.
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B
And the funny thing was, I think Adam, for some incredible serendipity, had bought you the same thing the same week.
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A
Yes. So I actually use both of them. So they're very padded, which is nice.
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B
Oh, that's funny. That's very funny. Okay, so here's the thing that happened that really got me thinking about this. So I just had this very fun weekend with four of my friends from high school. We get together every few years for a long weekend. It's always incredibly super fun. And we got to talking one night about this thing, like, what are these little silly solutions? And my friend told me about something called face washing wristbands. It's a microfiber fabric. It's kind of like a scrunchie, really, like a thick scrunchie. Or like a thick, thick sweatband. If you have wrist sweatbands, which I don't have, since I don't do anything like that. And you just slip them over your wrist, and what they're for is if you're washing your face and you're putting water up and it slides down and it gets onto your pajamas or your shirt or whatever, because it will slide down your elbow and just. It just feels like it gets everywhere. I actually have a kind of. I forgot the Name of it, but it comes in a tub and it's waterless face wash, so that you can remove your makeup without using water. And I use that. But then in the end, I always do sort of just want to wash my face. And it was really annoying. I would have this whole thing where I was like jamming my pajamas sleeves up high, and they were always getting drippy. And so when she showed me these, I was like, okay, this is something that I need. It is so silly, it is so minor. And yet I predict that I will use this every single day for the rest of my life. Do other people have this problem? Yes, they do.
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A
Yes.
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Who knew there was a solution?
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A
Crutch. This. This is something I deal with every morning and night of my life. Never occurred to me there was something for it. So I got to look these up
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because you've got a birthday coming up, so hold off.
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A
Okay. I always, like, try to push my robe sleeves up high enough.
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B
And they won't stay.
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A
And they won't stay.
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B
No, they flop down, they get in the water. It's a big thing. And again, this is so silly and so minor. And yet it is the kind of thing that is annoying. Okay, here's another example. I did a collaboration with Cas Arson, also known as Clutterbug. She has a framework where she divides people into four types based on how they like to organize things, which of course I love. And we collaborated on doing a three day makeover of a woman named Chloe. And we just released a video of this. And I love nothing more than a before and after. So I love this video. One of the things when we were looking at sort of the before, because this was a before and after. Chloe and her husband, they have two little kids and they had shoes everywhere, like a giant thing of shoes by the front door, which is so, so common. And Cash showed me these cabinets. The ones that she likes are from Ikea, and they're so narrow, they're like five inches deep. Then they're flat, and you pull the shelf out and it kind of pops out. And then you can slide your shoes in and it holds so much. It's sort of a visual puzzle because you think that much couldn't fit into that cabinet. But the way that it's designed, and these cabinets are very, very narrow. So even if you have a very narrow hal, you want to put it in a room, but you don't want to squash the room with some big chest of drawers. They're made for shoes. But a lot of people Put other things in there. Like you could put papers in there if you had a lot of papers and you didn't want to have a filing cabinet anyway. I had never seen a piece of furniture in this shape. And I thought, if this is a problem that you have, this is a very, very efficient solution that you could fit in very easily with. Having it be like a major investment or a major element of your space.
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A
This came up recently in my life, Gretch, because Adam and I wanted to start walking the dogs at night, and light is an issue. You know, it's very dark in our neighborhood, and yes, we have a million flashlights, but you have to hold the flashlights and it's never enough light, et cetera, et cetera. So he found, again, not knowing there is a solution to this problem, Adam looked up what to do, and he ended up getting these little clip on flashlights for Daisy and Nacho's harnesses that we put on when we walk at night. And so they're lit up as they walk. They can see in front of them. And then we also have clip on lights for, like, our jacket. So we have four flashlights, no hands. And it's changed our experience of walking the dogs at night.
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B
Oh, that's great. You made it sound so helpful. I ordered some too. I haven't seen them yet, but I'm excited by that. But also, the thing is, we've been just talking about things that you buy, and sometimes buying something can really make life a lot easier, but it's not necessarily something you buy. Sometimes it's just saying, like, you're just searching for a solution when you might have in the past just sort of accepted this is the situation. I have to make the best of the situation. Instead of saying, is there a different solution for this problem? And, Elizabeth, in this regard, I think of you having this breakthrough with your video setup, which is something that has annoyed you for years.
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A
Yes. Which was realizing that I could just have a card table set up in front of my desk and I could spin my chair so that instead of having a door as my background, I have all my photos and sort of desk trinkets and books as a background. And it has changed my life because it did bother me. Every single time I was on zoom, it bothered me. Now it's completely solved.
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B
It's like doing a zoom from a hotel room and you're like, I don't want to have a bed in the background, but you just can't get it out.
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A
Yeah.
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If there's a door, there you can't cover it up. So that was so satisfying. And that wasn't a matter of buying something. You already had the card table. You just hadn't searched for the solution, which is what's a different way to solve this?
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A
Now, Gretchen, we have been talking about this in the practical way, but one could spend time and think about this in the more transcendent way of what is the solution? If you have constant conflict with someone over something, sure. What is the solution? If you feel you don't have enough time with a friend, what is the solution? Not where we're going today, but it is something that also applies to human nature.
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B
That's such an excellent point because sometimes, yeah, you're just like, well, it is what it is, but you haven't really sat down and thought, is there a solution to this problem? Because you sort of take it for granted and don't think about what a solution might be. That is an excellent, excellent point. We should probably do Search for a Solution, part two, where we really focus on things like what you're saying, like ending conflict or making time or these bigger issues. Sometimes it's fun to think about the face washing hand wrists. And sometimes it's fun to think about how do I deepen my relationships? Both play a role in happiness. Well, let us know if you do try this at home and how searching for a solution has worked for you. Let us know what you've done. Either the little thing like the clip on flashlight or a big thing like you've solved a big transcendent question in your life. We want to hear it all. Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email@podcastretchenrubin.com or you can always go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com584 coming up, we've got
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a happiness hack about productivity. But first, this break Foreign. I've been trying to be more consistent about getting enough protein during the day, and I realized how hard that actually is without overthinking it. I started reaching for David bars and they just become part of my routine, usually in the afternoon when I need something quick that actually keeps me full. Gretch what surprised me is the texture. It's soft, a little doughy with these crunchy bits, so it doesn't feel like a typical protein bar. My new favorite flavor is red velvet,
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and nutritionally it really stands out. 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and 0 grams of sugar. That's a big difference for most bars. And David is now available at Walmart stores nationwide and on Walmart.com where you can try a single bar for just $2.97. It's really an easy way to hit your protein goals without adding a lot of extra calories. Don't take our word for it, go grab one for yourself, Head to Walmart today to try bar or stock up on four counts of your favorite flavors like blueberry pie and salted peanut butter sold exclusively at Walmart. Check out Walmart.com to find a store near you.
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If you've ever felt stuck trying to lose weight, you are not alone. There's so much advice out there and it's hard to know what actually works. And even when something does work, keeping it all off can be just as frustrating. That's why Weight Loss by Hers now offers access to FDA approved GLP1 medications including the Wegovy Pill and the Wegovy Pen. With Wegovy and hers, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight. When combined with diet and exercise, it helps regulate your appetite so you can eat less and keep weight off.
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And everything is online. You connect with a licensed provider who determines if it's right for you and if prescribed, it's delivered right to your door. If you're ready to reach your goals, visit forhers.com happier to get personalized, affordable care that gets you that's F O R h e r s.com happier forhers.com Happier weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. WeGovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk as to get started and learn more, including important safety information, WeGovy clinical study information and restrictions, visit for hers.com I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures. Nothing huge, just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day. And it really makes you appreciate having a car that feels solid and comfortable where you're not thinking about the drive, you're just focused on where you're going. That's what stood out to me about the Defender. It has that rugged design, but it also feels really thoughtful inside. And I like that there's a full lineup from the two door 90 to the 110 and the 130 with seating for up to eight. So it really fits different kinds of
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plans and it's built with those durable purposeful materials so you can actually use it without worrying about every little thing. It also has features that make driving feel easier like Clearsight technology and the Pivi Pro system so you can keep track of where you're going and everything you want to listen to along the way. Plus, with up to 89 cubic feet of cargo space and available three rows, it gives you a lot of flexibility depending on what you're bringing with you. Explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com okay Gretch, we're back with this week's Happiness Hack.
- [19:41]
B
Yes, and this comes from Shelby, and she makes reference to her tendency. She's a questioner. And of course, if you don't know what we're talking about, you can take the quiz and learn all about the four tendencies@gretchenrubin.com quiz. But this doesn't really depend on being a questioner. It could work for all the tendencies. So Shelby says I'm a questioner and an author, and sometimes I struggle to write under deadlines I set for myself because they are often arbitrary and easily moved. Okay, side note, for me, that is a big thing with questioners. Anything that seems arbitrary is an issue for them. Okay, so I can find a myriad of reasons why I don't have to complete a task today and it can be relocated to tomorrow or even next week. Lately, I've been leaving my house to write. I recently got into the habit of leaving my charger at home because something I should have realized sooner, my laptop eventually dies without it. My fear of being in the middle of a chapter and having my laptop power down is so strong that I find it easy to stay focused on my goal. In a strange way, I use my laptop's limitations to assist my work. Normally, I know I have a good three to six hours before I need to plug my laptop into its charger. So tasks I normally would have put off for days or even weeks must get done today because, oh, I'm running out of power. Watching the battery percentage countdown reminds me that I need to keep plodding ahead or risk losing my progress and momentum. Working with this looming unknown deadline helps me to stick to my goals and get things done. Because I can't predict exactly when my laptop is going to shut down. I just know that it's getting closer and closer to powering off the longer I use it. I literally have no time to dilly dally. I love that.
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A
Yes, she can't play solitaire for an hour and waste that battery power. She's got to stay focused.
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And it just happens. It just shuts off. That's just a consequence. There's no argument. There's no negotiation. It just like that happens. So I love that.
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A
All right, Gretch, next. This Week we have a bonus try this at home, which I'm very excited about because it's about our move 26 challenge.
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B
Yes. This is sponsored by Lululemon, a company we both love. And this year we are challenging ourselves and listeners to move 26. Move 26 minutes a day in 2026. And move can be whatever you want. You can run, you can walk, stretch, clear clutter, walk your dog, do yoga, whatever movement works for you. So many people have joined in with us to move 26. And as part of move 26, to help everybody stay active with this aim, we want to share some suggestions. Like here in New York City, it's springtime, so this is a great time to move. So the Try this at home suggestion is to park a 10 minute walk away from your destination, from your workplace or wherever you're going so that you have that 10 minute walk to get where you're going. Or if you're taking the subway or a bus, get off one or two stops early. That way you get some movement. You're also out in a nice sunshine, just as part of your ordinary routine. You've just built it into the routine. And that movement and that light are great for mood, energy, memory, creativity. It's so good for us. But the thing is, if you're going to do that, it really helps to dress for it.
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A
Yes. I think sometimes we don't want to add that kind of movement to our day because we don't want to look sporty in a professional sense setting. It's this whole, what are we wearing? We want to be comfortable, but we want to look professional.
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B
Yeah. So the Lululemon EZ5 pants is great for this because they look like high end trousers, but they feel like performance gear. So you're ready to move and then you're ready to work. And this is part of the strategy of convenience. And we talk about the strategy of convenience all the time because it's one of the most powerful habit shaping strategies. The more convenient something is, the more likely we are to do it. The research is clear that making something convenient is going to really make a difference in how likely we are to follow through.
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A
Yes. For instance, Gretchen, when I got back into my treadmill desk for move 26 and 26, I realized that if I could just wear my slip ons on the treadmill desk, I'm way more likely to use it than if I feel like I have to say stop and put on running shoes.
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B
Right.
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A
Just because it's more convenient. So I just took that element away. Because I'm walking slow anyway. It doesn't matter if I have on my slip ons.
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B
And it's so funny. What a difference it makes.
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A
Huge difference.
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B
You think, how hard is it to change your shoes? And you're like, well, hard enough that it keeps me off the treadmill.
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A
But like, back to these Lululemon Easy 5 pants. Gretchen. I have them in light ivory, which you know is my signature color.
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B
Yes.
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A
I have the low rise classic wide leg and they're perfect to wear, like, to a lunch. Like, I go to a lot of, you know, lunches with other writers or executives and they look nice enough for me to wear to a professional lunch. But again, they're comfortable.
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B
Right. Well, and the thing is they remove that whole extra step of feeling like you have to change from one thing.
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A
Yes.
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B
Yeah. From one thing to another. And, like worry about what you're going to wear. And for me here in New York in the spring, when the weather is so good, if I have a lunch meeting or something like that, I would much rather walk to it if I can, rather than take the subway. I'm fine to walk a couple of miles. And so these pants make it so comfortable to do it. And then I really feel like I'm dressed appropriately when I show up. Also, what I love is there's no stiff break in period because, you know, sometimes you sort of have to break in pants. And these are comfortable from the first moment you put them on. They're like my favorite pants.
- [25:27]
A
Yes. You are not compromising on comfort. And Gretchen, we have talked many times on this podcast. We like to be comfortable.
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B
We are all about the comfort. Okay. And here's a second. Try this at home. Do a walk and talk. I love a walk and talk. So if you have an internal meeting or a phone call that you need to take, instead of sitting for that, go outside and walk and talk. You're getting that movement in. You're getting that light in your face. It's good for our creativity. But again, you don't want it to be like a whole big transition. You want to be able to just get out of your chair, get on your call and go. Yes.
- [26:04]
A
I think a lot of us associate movement with sweat or like changing into our gym clothes, both of which are very inconvenient, especially at work. But with these Easy five pants, you're just ready to go and they breathe like workout gear.
- [26:22]
B
Well, here's the thing you need to know. Lululemon does limited color runs. So when those new styles drop every Tuesday, they go Fast, and you don't want to wait. And if it's not for you, Lululemon offers free returns, no risk. That's lululemon.com new drops every Tuesday. Go now.
- [26:41]
A
Okay, Gretchen, it is time for a happiness stumbling block.
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B
Okay, so this is a stumbling block that for most of us, doesn't happen to us very often in our lives, but it's very significant when it happens, which is you've moved someplace new, so you're not just like in a hotel room for a night, but you've actually moved to someplace new. And it takes a while to feel comfortable. You just feel ill at ease when you're in a new place. I always like when there's sort of a rule or where an expert is like, this is a thing. So I had read a Wall Street Journal article a while back called, has your dream renovation become a nightmare? Maybe you need a house therapist. Okay, so this is a thing. Some people are house therapists. And a house therapist named Joseph R. Lee said it takes six to nine months of living in a new place for the psyche to begin thinking of it as home. And to me, I thought, well, it's kind of nice if you were moving to a new place to say, well, you know, I'm really not gonna expect myself to feel settled in for a while. It's not surprising if I don't really feel like this is home for several months. I think sometimes it's reassuring just to be prepared for the fact that it might take time and it might be uncomfortable. Yes.
- [27:55]
A
It's always easier when you know that what you're feeling is just a normal of events and not something specific to you. So I think that's very helpful.
- [28:05]
B
Yeah. And I think sometimes when we move, we think, oh, this is going to be so great. I'm going to be, like, filled with joy and excitement. And then when you're not, you're saying, what's wrong with me? Or, like, maybe I made the wrong decision. And people who deal with people going through this all the time see a pattern. You're part of that pattern. I think it's very reassuring.
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A
Yes. And it's a physical feeling. I mean, I can remember it. It clearly several times in my life, having that deeply physical feeling of unease in a new place.
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B
Yeah, it's kind of related to homesickness, but it's kind of different, too. Yeah, it's a tough feeling. It's an uncomfortable feeling.
- [28:39]
A
All right, Gretch. Coming up, I give myself a demerit related to my son Jack. But first this break.
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C
Hey, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus from wiser than me, etc. Just popping in with a little reality check. Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our leftovers should end up in a landfill. But that's the final destination for about a third of the food we grow. Our ancestors would be confused. They used their food scraps as compost or as animal feed, or in weird soups. All the stuff we did before garbage was invented. But composting is hard work. Living with a bucket of rotten food on your counter is gross. Most food goes in the trash because it's easy. And these days, we'll take any easy we can get. But now there's something easier. Drop your scraps in a mill food recycler. It looks like a kitchen bin and an iPhone had a baby. It takes nearly anything, even meat and bones. It works automatically. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells. When you finally empty it, you've got these nutrient rich grounds. Use them in your garden, pour them in your green bin, or have Mill get them to a small farm so the food you don't eat can help grow the food you do. Just like it should be. It's why I own a mill, why I invest in mill, and why I'm still obsessed with my mill. If you want to get obsessed too, go to mill.com wiser to get $75 off. That's mill.com. for $75 off.
- [30:30]
A
Guys, we gotta talk about your secret late night Internet searches. You know the ones. Bumpy leg rash, hair loss, itchy bum. Trying to figure out your body by endlessly searching for answers. We all do it and it never works. Thankfully, there's Amazon Health AI.
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B
It can connect your symptoms with your medical history to offer personalized care 24 7. So call off the search. Amazon Health AI is here. Healthcare just got less painful.
- [31:00]
A
Lately I've been trying to simplify what I wear day to day. Just pieces that feel easy but still put together. I do not want to overthink it. And I have been reaching for quints a lot. No surprise there. Everybody knows my love for quints. I love their linen pieces. They're so breathable, but they still look polished. They're the kind of thing you could wear all day and not think about changing.
- [31:23]
B
And when I saw the price, I honestly double checked. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because Quince works directly with ethical factories. Like you, Elizabeth, I just find that Quince makes getting dressed simpler. And the pieces actually hold up. Quince uses premium materials like European linen and organic cotton. So you're getting quality without the usual markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com Gretchen for free shipping on your order and 365 day return returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Gretchen for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Gretchen okay, Elizabeth, it's time for demerits and gold stars. And this is an even numbered episode and that means it's your turn to talk about a demerit.
- [32:12]
A
Okay, Gretch? Well, I don't know if I've talked about this before, But Jack turned 16 this year.
- [32:18]
B
Unbelievable.
- [32:19]
A
And obviously what comes with that is a driver's license. And I have just not done a good job of getting that on track. So he is not the kid who was like, you know, at the front door saying, let's go take my driver's test. There's a process we have to go through. We are partway through the process, but then I stalled out on kind of nudging him along. And he has done a little bit of driving practice, but he needs to do, I mean, so much more. Let's just say we've barely broken the surface, so there's a long way to go until he can actually get his license. And he's already 16. So I'm saying this partly just to remind myself as we do and put it out there, that I need to get back on the driving train. I want to make sure that all of this is basically done by the time summer is over so that he's ready to get his license as soon as this six month waiting period is over that they have in California once you get your written tests passed. So it's a process.
- [33:26]
B
It is a long process. And I will say this, probably many listeners will be like, this is bonkers. I cannot believe it. So my daughter Eleanor, at age 20 got hers and we were all so excited. It felt like this insurmountable goal. Oh, my gosh, we were all so blown away. Eliza, my older daughter, still does not have hers. She's perfectly good at driving. She knows how to drive, but she failed a couple of times. But the thing is, it's really complicated. And then like one time she'd waited too long to take the test, so then this thing had expired, so she had to do this thing again. I mean, there's a lot of paperwork, there's A lot of moving parts, things expire.
- [34:01]
A
It's also proving your address, which he doesn't get a lot of mail because he's 16. So I'm sort of need to look into that.
- [34:12]
B
Yeah. No, and it feels like the driving, as hard as it is to drive, it's. In a way, the driving is not the hard part.
- [34:19]
A
Right.
- [34:19]
B
And it's like pushing a rope because it's all super boring and complicated. They don't want to do it. You don't wanna badger them. I mean, it's a thing. So I think if a kid is one of those kids who, like you say, is just like, hand me the car keys, then they're driving the process. But if you're. You know, I've only done one out of two kids, you know, and with Eliza, I'm like, over to you. You know how to drive. When you need it, you'll deal with it. So I hope she does, because I do feel like it's an important. I always vowed as a Midwesterner, even though, Elizabeth, you and I really do not like to drive at all. I always said, oh, I'm not gonna be one of those parents whose kids don't have driver's license. And then cut to 100.
- [34:56]
A
The funny thing is, you're in New York, where you really don't need a car, whereas I'm in la, where you really do need to drive. We're going vast distances, so I get it for the New Yorkers. But anyway, I'll keep you posted.
- [35:11]
B
Okay.
- [35:12]
A
Okay, Gretch, what is your gold star this week?
- [35:14]
B
Well, I want to give a gold star to bookstore employees because I love going into an independent bookstore. People are always so helpful. I have heard people say something like, I want this book, and it's really popular, and it's kind of like light colors, and there's two birds on the front, and they're like, oh, you mean the Correspondent or whatever. Like, they're really good at reading your mind. But I especially want to thank the people who write Shelf Talkers. So if you don't know, I love this term, a shelf talker is, you know, when you're walking around a bookstore and there. There's little commentary on particular books, often handwritten, and it'll often be like Haley says, or. Or whatever, and they'll do a little description of why they personally have recommended this book. I always read Shelf Talkers. I often buy books because of shelf talkers. I've even gone to bookstores where I'll walk around and I'm like wow, I really like Haley's taste. Like what? You know? Cause I'll see that. I've read like a couple books that she recommends and I'm like, well, what are the other ones that she recommends? Because clearly like we have the same taste in books. And I'm sure it's a lot of work to do that and it's a lot of work to work in a bookstore. But as somebody who loves, loves, loves to read, it's like a haven for me. I always know if I walk into a bookstore, I'm gonna have great experience. I'm going to be so happy. The people are going to be helpful. So I appreciate it. And for all the people who write these insightful, interesting, compelling shelf talkers, well done. I really appreciate you.
- [36:38]
A
I never knew that phrase. Shelf talker. I love it.
- [36:41]
B
Isn't it fun? Yeah.
- [36:43]
A
So fun.
- [36:44]
B
The resource for this week, as I said, I just released a brand new YouTube video with my friend Cass Arson, also known as Clutterbug. This was a super fun project that we did together. We did a three day organization makeover, someone here in New York City named Chloe. And we gave Chloe recommendations for keeping her kids space clear of clutter, keeping kids clutter out of adult space, how to use my four tendencies framework and the Clutterbug framework together to figure out like how to create order and then how to maintain order. Cass and I had so much fun together. We just talked the whole time about outer order and her framework and my framework and how they worked together. It was so much fun. So you can watch the YouTube video and you can see the big reveal. I love nothing more than a before and after. You can find all that@happiercast.com clutter it was the most fun.
- [37:40]
A
Yes. I can imagine you two going to town. I have to watch the videos.
- [37:44]
B
Yes, yes. If anything, Cass is even more of a happiness bully in this area than I am. So we had a lot of fun. And now what are we reading? Elizabeth, what are you reading?
- [37:54]
A
I just finished Fame Sick by Lena Dunham.
- [37:57]
B
And I am reading Someone at a Distance by Dorothy Whipple. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Search for a solution. One may exist. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
- [38:10]
A
Thanks to our executive producer Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.
- [38:14]
B
And here's your rhyming reminder. If the show brightens your day, send others this way.
- [38:19]
A
Until next week, I'm Elizabeth Craig Craft.
- [38:21]
B
And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. What do Daisy and Nacho think of? All of a sudden they have projecting light. Do they just take it for granted, or are they puzzled? What do they think?
- [38:43]
A
Well, they seem to love it. I don't know if that's just our perception, but we feel like they love it.
- [38:49]
B
You would think they would every. You know, it's good to be able to see where you're going.
- [38:52]
A
And they're so cute, bopping along with their little lights.