Ep. 588: Find More Time for Fun During the Work Week, Plus a Common Activity That's Riskier Than You Think

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin — Episode 588 Summary Find More Time for Fun During the Work Week, Plus a Common Activity That’s Riskier Than You Think
Date: May 27, 2026
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into two major themes: how to intentionally create more space for fun and personal satisfaction during otherwise “scrap” workweek hours, and the hidden dangers in seemingly innocuous everyday activities—especially, surprisingly, ladders. The duo shares listener solutions, practical strategies, personal stories, and relatable reflections on habits, happiness, and home life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Updates: Searching for Small Solutions

[01:52–05:27]

• Car Hooks for Purse Storage: Caroline writes in about an affordable (under $10) solution to keep car purses from spilling: “Car hooks… slide between the supports of your headrest and can easily hold a purse.” (Gretchen, 02:08)

  • Elizabeth relates: She often loses her insulin pen in backseat chaos when driving her son to school.

• The ‘Oh, I Hate This Part’ Meme: Tori shares that this phrase, inspired by a viral meme about inefficiently removing a pizza from the oven, offers a light, loving nudge to help people question if they’re enduring unnecessary frustration.

• Self-Reflection in Problem Solving: Caitlin echoes that many ongoing issues can be reframed by asking: “How am I contributing to this?” and illustrates with her own experience feeling let down by a friend who had a different approach to socializing. (Gretchen, 04:05)

  • Gretchen highlights: “It’s often the last thing that occurs to us—that we might need to change.” (05:21)

2. Try This at Home: Make a Plan for Your Golden Hours

[05:27–13:02]

• Concept Introduction: Borrowed from time-use expert and author Laura Vanderkam’s new book, Big Time: A Simple Path to Time Abundance, the central idea is to proactively plan for “golden hours”—your weekday evenings that typically go underutilized.

  • “It’s very easy to treat weekday evenings as afterthoughts... But it’s a lot of time.” (Gretchen, 06:24)

• Key Recommendation:

  • Set one intention each weekday evening (30–60 min) for yourself—something not work, not housework, and not caretaking.
    • “She just says the to-do list is never done.... When it’s Laura’s time, she’ll read a novel, do a puzzle, or go on a long solo walk.” (Gretchen, 07:25)
  • Benefits noted: Less mindless downtime, easier to go to bed at a better time—you feel satisfied instead of feeling you’ve missed out.

• Personal Applications:

  • Elizabeth’s evening Orange Theory classes turn an undefined stretch into meaningful “prime time”: “It sets me up for a better feeling when I go to bed.” (Elizabeth, 08:24)
  • Discussion on “one night a week” being just for you—to safeguard independent interests for life transitions like empty nest years.

• Practical Tips to Make It Stick:

  • Intentional planning: Calendar it, make it “official,” use accountability
  • For obligers (those motivated by external accountability), treat fun like an obligation to ensure follow-through
  • Try “Toad Time”: After-dinner outside time as a family or solo, even just a walk
  • Reflect on how effortful fun (active, engaged) is more satisfying than passive downtime (Gretchen, 11:26)

  “Effortful fun is more energizing and more satisfying, and passive fun feels easy but can become numbing... I want to recommit to watercolor.”
  —Gretchen Rubin (11:33)

• Listener Call to Action: Listeners are invited to share their golden hour plans and experiences on social or by email.

3. Convenience & Outer Order: Finding the Right Place for Things

[16:43–18:41]

• Organizing Tip: If an item always “ends up” somewhere, that place may be its true home.

  • “Maybe you need to rethink where that thing is supposed to be... These keys are just fighting to be in this one place. So just say that’s where they go.” (Gretchen, 16:49)

• Listener Jona’s Example: Moves deodorant to her bra drawer to synchronize it with her routine and never forgets it again.
  “Taking off or putting on a bra is the right time to put on deodorant. So now I never forget. Problem solved.” (Elizabeth reading listener email, 17:53)

4. Happiness Stumbling Block: Ordinary Activities Can Be Surprisingly Dangerous

[18:45–24:09]

• Cognitive Blind Spot: Familiarity breeds carelessness—activities like texting and driving or walking are so routine that we ignore their risks.

  • “Our brains just go into autopilot... so often people get into accidents near their home.” (Gretchen, 19:27)

• The Hidden Danger of Ladders:

  • Stat: 500,000 injuries and 300 deaths/year in the US from ladders. 81% of ER fall injuries, and 43% of fatal falls, involve a ladder (Gretchen, 19:48).
  • Most fatal ladder falls are less than 10 feet high.
  • Causes: Wrong ladder size, reaching too far, being alone, unstable surfaces, standing at the top, carrying things while climbing, etc.

• Personal Story:

  • The hosts recall their father retrieving Christmas decor from a treacherous attic ladder—while wearing slippery knitted slippers: “Even at the time we were like, this is bonkers. What were we thinking?” (Gretchen, 23:03)
  • Practical ladder safety: Always have someone nearby, use non-slip shoes, watch a safety video, plan before acting.

• Final Point:

  • Both ladder safety and avoiding texting while driving rely on conscious, intentional behavior: “Just using your head and paying attention... the numbers were astonishing.” (Gretchen, 24:09)
  • “Don’t text and drive. And don’t get on a ladder—wear ladders.” (Elizabeth and Gretchen, 24:24–24:28)

5. Demerit & Gold Star: Relationships

[28:02–31:58]

• Happiness Demerit (Gretchen):

  • Regrets not calling friends/family as much, especially compared to her husband Jamie’s family, who “just pick up the phone and call—a couple times a day isn’t unusual.”
  • “Frequency is more important than duration... if you don’t call often, people assume it’s urgent or bad news.” (Gretchen, 29:24)
  • Sets context with texts before calling friends so as not to alarm them.

• Gold Star (Elizabeth’s husband, Adam):

  • Recognizes Adam’s increased willingness to join her at “couples” social events; she appreciates but notes he’s not one for words of affirmation.
  • “He has made a point of… saying ‘sure, I’ll go’, and I’ve really been enjoying having our couple’s time.” (Elizabeth, 30:21)
  • Acknowledges different love languages: “What would be better is for me to pick up my clothes or unload the dishwasher—things he’d like me to do.” (Elizabeth, 31:58)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If you catch yourself thinking ‘Oh, I hate this part,’ take a beat to consider whether there’s an easy way to make it better.” —Tori (listener, read by Elizabeth, 03:10)
• “Effortful fun is often more energizing and more satisfying, and passive fun feels easy, but it can become numbing.” —Gretchen Rubin, 11:33
• “Our brains just go into autopilot... That’s why people often get into accidents near their home.” —Gretchen Rubin, 19:27
• “Ladders are so dangerous, falling off a ladder is in the top 10 causes of deaths and non-fatal injuries.” —Gretchen Rubin, 19:48
• “He would climb the steps in his slippers—knitted slippers grandma craft made—on a rickety ladder to get the ornaments. Even at the time we were like, this is bonkers.” —Gretchen & Elizabeth, 22:39–23:03
• “Frequency is more important than duration.” —Gretchen Rubin (on staying in touch), 29:24
• “What would be better is for me to pick up my clothes off the floor, unload the dishwasher... things I know he’d like me to do.” —Elizabeth Craft, 31:58

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Important Segments by Timestamp

• [01:52] Listener solutions to everyday hassles
• [05:38] “Try This at Home”: Making plans for golden hours
• [11:26] Difference between effortful and passive fun
• [16:43] Rethink an item's “proper place” for outer order
• [18:45] The dangers of familiar activities, especially ladder use
• [22:39] Family anecdote: slippery slippers, dad, and attic ladders
• [28:02] Demerit: Not calling family/friends enough
• [30:21] Gold Star: Adam’s extra effort at couples events

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Tone & Takeaways

Maintaining their upbeat, conversational, and practical tone, Gretchen and Elizabeth make the episode both informative and inviting. They encourage listeners to experiment with intentional evening plans, bring humor and warmth to home safety reminders (especially via relatable family stories), and reflect honestly on small relationship habits.

The main action item: Don’t squander your golden hours on autopilot. Make space for effortful fun, and safeguard both your routines and your health—especially around ladders!

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Further Resources

• Laura Vanderkam’s Big Time: A Simple Path to Time Abundance
• Gretchen Rubin’s newsletter: “Five Things Making Me Happy” (happiercast.com/newsletter)

What are you planning to do with your “golden hours”?
Share with Gretchen and Elizabeth via social or email: [e-mail]

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For a deeper happiness boost: Try one new golden hour activity this week—and don’t forget to double-check your ladder safety!

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about strategies and solutions for living happier lives. This week we'll talk about why it's a good idea to make a plan for your golden hours. And we talk about how a very ordinary and familiar activity can actually be one of the most dangerous things you can do. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City, and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister the sage, that's me, Elizabeth

[Elizabeth Craft]

Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And Gretchen, I can't wait to hear what you want to do with your golden hours.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But before we jump in, we have a few updates. We got some several responses about searching for a solution. Caroline wrote. Thank you for urging me to find a solution. I always put my purse on the passenger seat in my car now that my kid can ride in the front seat. I've been struggling to put my bag somewhere that makes sense. Too often I fling it in the backseat where something spills out. Enter the solution. Car hooks. They slide between the supports of your headrest and can easily hold a purse. Something small. That definitely makes me happier. Now, Elizabeth, I have to confess, I couldn't even envision this. So I went online to see what is a car hook and it's exactly what it sounds like. She describes it. It just slides around your headrest. It's a hook. These things cost less than $10 and I know that feeling. You turn a corner and everything just spills out and then you're scrambling to put everything back in. So I thought this is a perfect and inexpensive solution for a problem that could annoy you every day.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, Gretch, I deal with this driving Jack to school. It drives me nuts because I'll put my purse in the backseat and then for some reason my insulin pen always falls out. I don't know what it is. Oh, and that has come back to bite me several times. So I need to look into this.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, Tori said.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I love this segment about searching for a solution. It reminded me strongly of a meme that was going around about 10 years ago. The poster told a story about going to a boy's house for a date. He made her frozen pizza. Yes, they were in their early 20s. When the pizza was cooked, he said, oh, I hate this part. And reached into the oven with his bare hands to take it out. Now, whenever my partner I see the other doing something the hard way, we jokingly intone, oh, I hate this part. It's a loving, gentle way of cueing the other person to realize their enduring suffering that is easily solved. I imagine that it can also be a useful cue for ourselves. When you catch yourself thinking, oh, I hate this part, take a beat to consider whether there's an easy way to make it better. Yeah, looking forward to hearing other people's easy solutions, especially those that don't involve buying a product.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's a great reminder. Caitlin wrote. The discussion around solutions today reminded me of a question I ask myself often when I'm feeling like I can't solve a problem, which is, how am I contributing to this? This is attributed to Carl Jung's work, but has helped me really break down exactly my part in certain conflicts. It's easy to think that others are causing our issues and everything would be so much better if only the other person changed. But it's often the case that we are part of a certain dynamic and we can change our own behavior. As an example, I was getting upset that a friend never texted me back when I offered plans to meet up. I was getting so worked up that they were neglecting our friendship. But then I thought, what is my part in this? I could see that this person was not as interested in scheduling and instead liked to see me organically or for special occasions. I had to realize that me texting her was setting up for my disappointment so I could make the choice of knowing she won't respond or not texting her at all for scheduling purposes. It's a very useful question for many things, so I think this is a great example Tori was saying, what are some of these examples that cost nothing? And here Caitlin is offering a question that can help us search for a solution in our own behavior.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Which, as she says, it's obviously the last thing that occurs to us.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Yeah, Great advice, great advice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So keep those coming. We are really enjoying this because we can all learn from each other. And this week I try this at home suggestion is to make a plan for your golden hours.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So not. They're your golden years. Your golden hours.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. So this is all about the value of intention and planning. So this idea comes straight from Laura Vanderkam, a friend of mine who is a time use expert. She has a new book that just came out called Big Time A Simple Path to Time Abundance. She's also the host of two podcasts, Before Breakfast and Best of Both Worlds. She has a newsletter, Just a minute. She has five kids, she works all the time. So she is somebody where you're like, cause sometimes I'm like a time use expert. I'm like, I don't know, how much time are you juggling? I'm like, Laura Vanderkam has a lot of claims on her time. So I take what she suggests very seriously. And her point, and I think that this is so true, is that it's very easy to treat weekday evenings as kind of afterthoughts, kind of unappreciated. It's post work, it's pre bedtime, it's the weekday. We're often tired. That time can kind of feel like scraps, so we don't make the most of it. But it's a lot of time. If you think of like after you work and before you go to bed, that's a lot of time. And if you add that up, there is a lot, lot that you could do with that time if you used it wisely instead of treating it as filler time.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's so interesting because, yes, sometimes I'll even think at a certain hour, like, what now?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. What are you going to do with this time? Laura argues that you can use this time as prime time. You can use it for leisure, for family time, for rejuvenation, rather than mindless downtime. So her suggestion is that you set one intention for each day for 30 to 60 minutes. That's not work, that's not housework, and that's not care of a family member. So it's just 30 minutes, but you make a plan for it. You know, she just says the to do list is never done. When it's Laura's Time she does things like read a novel or do a puzzle or go on a long solo walk through the neighborhood. You know, it could be a lot of different things. It's just the idea of, like, really make a plan for it. Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Don't just scroll, which is what many of us do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. It just get caught up in something that's a low value activity. Now, this is what I thought was really interesting, Elizabeth, and I thought of you because I know sometimes you have struggled to go to bed because you feel like the evening is your leisure time. It's kind of your fun time. And if you go to bed early, you're sort of giving up your fun. And what Laura reports is that it often helps people to do a better job of going to sleep earlier because they do feel like they have that time for themselves and they feel like they've really done something valuable that they wanted to do rather than, like, time is going by and yet what am I getting out of it?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah, well, Gretch, I know for me, doing Orange Theory is the prime example of this. Like, when I do Orange theory, I go in the evening, I go either at 4 o', clock, 5, 10, or 6, 25. And so those are all that time where you can have undefined stretches. And it is absolutely the case that when I go to a class, my whole day feels like doubly productive. Like, I've done this big thing for myself that's also good for myself, and it absolutely sets me up for a better feeling when I go to bed.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this ties into something else. She said that one night a week should be something that is just for you. So it isn't like fun family adventures. It's like, this is something that is just you doing what you specifically want. So you're doing orange therapy because that's what you want. And I think this is really good from, like an empty nest perspective, because I've talked to a lot of people who in the empty nest transition feel sort of at a loss for what to do with themselves because they haven't had any activities or hobbies or book club or whatever that they did just because it was something that they enjoyed that they did on their own. If you're thinking about setting yourself up for the empty nest, it's really good to have things like that. And it's also, Elizabeth, going to do something like this. You can do this now because Jack is big enough that even if Adam's not there, you can just leave. And Jack is fine on his own. And I do think that sometimes with family life, you sort of forget that, like, at one time you couldn't do something.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But now you can.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You can just walk out the door and take a class if you don't have a meeting or something. But I think sometimes we're slow to realize what options we have because something hasn't been possible for so long, we forget that now we could do it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And I think you make a really good point, Gretchen, about, like, the empty nest situation. Don't think, okay, the kids are going to leave, and then I will get into a book group and start exercising and take up knitting and do all these things. Because these things all take time.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

To figure out, to get into a groove.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You want to start setting them up now so they're already in place. And already things that give you comfort and joy rather than starting from scratch. September 1st, after your kid goes to school.

[Gretchen Rubin]

100%. Because it's far more fun to be a year into a book club than to be saying, oh, who do I know who I can ask to be

[Elizabeth Craft]

in a book club?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Remember how nervous you were the first time to get at Orange Theory?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh, yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You just had no idea what to expect, and now it's just a completely different experience to go.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Some elements to keep in mind, because I do think this is really valuable, is intentional planning. So the idea is that you really are thinking about it. Like, put it on your list, put it on your calendar if you need to do that. But this is an official thing that you want to do, even though it's fun. And I say this for obligers. Just because something is fun doesn't mean that you will necessarily do it. You have to build some kind of accountability into it. Put it on a list, tell other people that that's what you're going to do. Get a book out of the library that you have to return. So you're like, well, I have to read my book because I got to return it on time. And then she has an interesting thing which she calls toad time. And I don't know if she came up with that term or if somebody else created it. I'd never heard of it. But it's time outside after dinner. And she says, especially when the evenings are longer, it's really fun with your family. You eat outside, you go to a park, you walk around the neighborhood. That there's something about going outside. And I do think that does feel really valuable and restorative to go outside always. The fact of it is, is that effortful Fun is often more energizing and more satisfying and, and passive fun feels easy, but it can become numbing. Yes, it can feel wasteful for me. Like I want to really recommit to watercolor now I've made the idea like I only watercolor every day if I'm not going out at night. I realized I was setting myself up for failure because I just, if I had something to do at night, it was just too much and I wasn't doing it. And then I felt like I was letting myself down. So I change the rule. That's one of the things that I do with my golden hours if I'm not going out after work. So I just love this idea.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Love it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So let us know if you do try this at home and what you might do during your golden hours to make that time richer and more satisfying. Let us know. It will be fascinating to know what are people doing with this time. Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email at podcastgretchenrubin.com you can go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com 589 and again, the book that this comes from is Big Time by Laura Vanderkam.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, we've got a happiness hack related to convenience. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

And David is now available at Walmart stores nationwide and on Walmart.com where you can try a single bar for just $2.97. Their gold line has one of the high highest protein to calorie ratios out there, so it's an easy way to hit your protein goals without a ton of extra calories or sugar. Don't just take our word for it, go grab one for yourself. Head to Walmart today to try a bar or stock up on four counts of your favorite flavors like blueberry pie and salted peanut butter sold exclusively at Walmart. Check out Walmart.com to find a store near you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures. Nothing huge. Just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day. And it really makes you appreciate having a car that feels solid and comfortable where you're not thinking about the drive, you're just focused on where you're going. That's what stood out to me about the Defender. It has that rugged design, but it also feels really thoughtful inside and I like that. There's a full lineup from the two door 90 to the 110 and the 130 with seating for up to eight. So it really fits different kinds of

[Elizabeth Craft]

plans and it's built with those durable, purposeful materials so you can actually use it without worrying about every little thing. It also has features that make driving feel easier like Clearsight technology and the PIVI Pro system so you can keep track of where you're going and everything you want to listen to along the way. Plus, with up to 89 cubic feet of cargo space and available three rows, it gives you a lot of flexibility depending on what you're bringing with you. Explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com this

[Gretchen Rubin]

show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Lately I've been thinking how easy it is to feel like you're supposed to have everything figured out, even when something is weighing on you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you

[Elizabeth Craft]

in therapy sign up and get 10% [e-mail] GretchenRubin that's betterhelp.com GretchenRubin okay Alyssa,

[Gretchen Rubin]

this is a hack we've talked about before and I think I wrote about this in Outer Inner Call, my book about creating outer order. And it's the idea that if you Find yourself often encountering an item that's not in the right place. Like, my keys are always here instead of where they're supposed to be, which is there. Maybe you need to rethink where that thing is supposed to be, because sometimes people have an idea like, this thing is supposed to be by the front door, but it's like, no, actually, this thing should be on the kitchen counter. That's where its proper place should be, because they have the place that they want to be. And it's like, these keys are just fighting to be in this one place. So just say that's where they go instead of constantly moving them around. When we walk the dogs, when we're at our weekend house, we keep our flashlight in a really oddball place, which is this, like, one little shelf in the kitchen. And you're like, that's kind of an odd place to keep a flashlight. But that's where the flashlight wants to be. It wants to be in this area of the kitchen. Like, it always kind of ends up there. So I'm like, well, let's have that be where we put it, rather than saying, oh, let's put it in this place, which makes more sense, but is actually kind of out of the flow. And we got a fun example of this from Jona.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. She said, I have an example of a very small solution to a problem. When getting ready for the day or after the gym, I would often forget to go into the bathroom to put on my deodorant. And so I would either have to partially undress or pull down my shirt or just skip it altogether. My solution was to put my deodorant in the drawer with my bras. Taking off or putting on a bra is the right time to put on deodorant. So now I never forget. Problem solved.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. So she wasn't dealing with the deodorant. Kept going to the wrong place, but it was like having it in the right place. It never got used. It really needed to find a new home. So she solved a solution, and she figured out, where does this little item want to live? I always think of things as having little personalities that want to be living up to their potential in the world. So love that solution.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, that's fun. Next up, we have a happiness stumbling block.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, this one is actually quite important. Once I started researching this, I realized, okay, this is a very important happiness stumbling block. So one of my secrets of adulthood is that activities that feel familiar, feel safe, activities that are common and familiar just do not seem dangerous. But this can be very risky to our happiness and to our health. And you take something like texting. We all do it all the time, all day long. And it's so familiar that it's very easy to start texting while you are walking down the street or even while you are driving. And that is very dangerous. Yes, when you are driving someplace very familiar. What the research shows is that if we have made a trip a bazillion times, our brains just go into autopilot and we're not paying attention. And so that's why often people get into accidents right near their home. I mean, part of it is that's where they spend the most time, but it's also like they're not paying attention. If you're in an unfamiliar, familiar place, you're alert, you're looking around, but you're just off in your own head when you're driving to the grocery store. So again, familiarity can breed risk. But here's something I did not know, which is the danger of ladders. Ladders are so dangerous, falling off a ladder is in the top 10 for causes of deaths and non fatal injuries. The statistics are wild. Now, in a construction site, ladders are considered one of the most dangerous tools. But the fact is, if you're in a house, you don't think of it as like, oh, this is a dangerous thing that we have to beware. And the vast majority of the injuries and deaths that come from ladders are in home settings. We don't get safety training. We are never told how to properly use a ladder. Often we might be alone when we're on a ladder. Like, you don't think, oh, I need a separate spotter. I need somebody to help me. 500,000 injuries and 300 deaths per year from a ladder. And 81% of fall injuries in emergency rooms are from ladders. Of falls that are fatal, 43% involve a ladder.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Wow.

[Gretchen Rubin]

People really risk their health if they're not paying attention when they get on a ladder.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And you said most of these fatalities are from falls that are less than 10ft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is right. It's not like somebody is up at the crown of a tree. These are people who are on the ordinary kind of ladders. Changing a light bulb, dusting a ceiling fan, hanging holiday decorations, putting up a picture, trying to get to the top shelf of a cabinet. I know somebody who lost his sense of smell falling off a ladder. I have a friend's father who died from injuries that he had from falling off a ladder. And these were not huge ladders. These were just ordinary ladders and part of it is that we just don't know how to use them safely. We use the wrong size of a ladder, we reach out too far because we don't wanna bother to move the ladder. We are not paying attention. So we miss a rung. When we're going up and down, we don't keep proper contact. Often people put it on ground that might be wet or unstable or not level. We might stand on the top and try to balance there. People try to carry things like, oh, you've got a big Christmas wreath. We do so many things wrong when we're using ladders.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, Gretchen, this reminds me of our own family and Christmas decorations. So we love Christmas decorations. Y lots of Christmas decorations.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I know where you're going with this.

[Elizabeth Craft]

For years they were all in the attic. We had one of those attics where you pulled down the stairs.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Incredibly rickety, narrow, deep, more like rungs than like steps.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. It was really a ladder. Not you pulled down the ladder.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Shiny slidy wood.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And dad would climb the hose steps in his slippers, which were knitted slippers that our grandma craft made him every year.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I mean, they really weren't safe to even walk around in, much less climb.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No, you couldn't be on a flat linoleum floor in those.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And we would all stand there and like screech and howl over the fact that he was climbing the ladder.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And those slippers, he would like balance on one foot on two rungs.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Oh my gosh.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Reach out far, grab a heavy box filled with Santas or whatever, pivot, maneuver it down below his waist so one of us could reach it from below. I mean it. Even at the time we were like, this is bonkers. This isn't safe. What were we thinking?

[Elizabeth Craft]

No, we really should have stepped in.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. So that's one of the things. Don't do it alone. He always had us hanging around, but you should always have someone standing by. You should wear non slip shoes, don't wear slippers, don't have bare feet, don't have loose clothing that you could catch. It's too much to talk about how to use it. And it depends on what kind of ladder you have, how big the ladder it is. But if you're going to be using a ladder, watch a quick video. These are all over the Internet from organizations begging you to be safe when you use a ladder. About how to move the ladder, how to position the ladder, maintaining contact with the ladder. Because a little bit of forethought and Planning and just using your head and paying attention. The numbers to me were just astonishing because you just don't think of this as being something that's a hazard. And it turns out it is.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And Gretchen, I'm sure the statistics are equally stark when it comes to texting and driving. So let us not.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But you know. But we all know that we shouldn't do that. We all know it's incredibly dangerous. I don't think we all know. Yeah, right. We do it anyway.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. Yeah. So don't text and drive. And don't get on a ladder.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Wear ladders.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Beware ladders.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretch. Coming up, you have a bit of a relationship demerit. But first, this break. Lately, I've been trying to simplify what I wear day today. Just pieces that feel easy but still put together. I do not want to overthink it. And I have been reaching for quints a lot. No surprise there. Everybody knows my love for quints. I love their linen pieces. They're so breathable, but they still look polished. They're the kind of thing you can wear all day and not think about changing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And when I saw the price, I honestly double checked. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because Quince works directly with ethical factories. Like you, Elizabeth, I just find that Quince makes getting dressed simpler and the pieces actually hold up. Quince uses premium materials like European linen and organic cotton. So you're getting quality without the usual markup. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com Gretchen for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com Gretchen for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Gretchen hey, it's Julia, Louis Dreyfus

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

from wiser than me, etc. Just popping in with a little reality check. Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our leftovers should end up in a landfill. But that's the final destination for about a third of the food we grow. Our ancestors would be confused. They used their food scraps as compost or as animal feed or in weird soups. All the stuff we did before garbage was invented. But composting is hard work. Living with a bucket of rotten food on your counter is gross. Most food goes in the trash because it's easy. And these days, we'll take any easy we can get. But now there's something easier. Drop your scraps in a Mill Food Recycler. It looks like a kitchen bin and an iPhone had a baby. It takes nearly anything, even meat and bones. It works automatically. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells. When you finally empty it, you've got these nutrient rich grounds. Use them in your garden, pour them in your green bin, or have Mill get them to a small farm so the food you don't eat can help grow the food you do. Just like it should be. It's why I own a mill, why I invest in mill, and why I'm still obsessed with my mill. If you want to get obsessed too, go to mill.com wiser to get $75 off. That's mill.com. for $75 off.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing For Amazon Health AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.

[Elizabeth Craft]

All right, Gretch, we are back with demerits and gold stars. And this week it is your turn for a happiness demerit.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this is a demerit about phone calls. And I mean an actual phone call, not texting, not emailing, which I'm good at that. But one of the things that's very true about Jamie and his parents, and I've noticed this from the first that we were married, is they just call a lot. It wouldn't be unusual for them to talk a couple times a day. I think once when we had a complicated situation, I think I talked to a member of their family nine times in the course of five hours or something like that. They just pick up the phone and call. And I am less likely to do that. And I really think that it is valuable in a special way. And I think the more you do it, the more it can just be brief and light. Its frequency is more important than duration. And I think it's particularly an issue when I'm traveling because I kind of have this sort of out of sight, out of mind thing where like if I'm traveling to see friends, I might not think to call Jamie or our mother. Or if I'm at home, I might not think to check in with a friend who might. I might need to call her. For some reason, I sort of get absorbed in whatever I'm doing and I don't think of, okay, how should I be checking in on everything? I remember sort of being bemused by this when I entered into the Rubin family. It's just like a different way. And I've really, over the years come to realize I really admire that a lot. I think there's a lot of value to it because if you're a person who doesn't love to get on the phone, you're like, eh, I don't wanna get on the phone. But there's a lot of good reasons to get on the phone.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. I do think this is more pressing now because people don't talk on the phone as much.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You are even less inclined to call anybody. So it is something be aware of and think about.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I had a funny story to tell a friend, but I'm like, if I just call her, she'll think that it's something bad.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So I texted her and I said, I have a funny story to tell you. Call me when it's convenient. And then she called me right away, but I didn't want her to worry because if she saw my numbers, I'm like, yeah, like what is it? And so some of. Yeah, with family members, they're used to you calling, but at least with my friends, it tends to be some kind of urgent issue that can make you sort of nervous. So I kind of set the context. Or like I have a non urgent quest question that's easier to talk through than type.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Can I call you that kind of thing? Yes. Elizabeth, take us up. What's your gold star?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I am giving a gold star to Adam, Gretchen, because he has just made a real effort lately to go with me to what I would call like couples things. You know, I'm more inclined to go out socially than he is. And a lot of times I do go by myself because he'd rather stay home. But I have noticed lately, not through any requests I made, but just he has made a point of if I say, oh, do you want to go to this thing with me on Wednesday? He'll say, sure, I'll go. And I've really been enjoying having our couples time and having my husband by my side at these things. Yeah. And it's really, really nice. So I want to acknowledge that I see that he is doing something for me and I appreciate it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So my question is, have you told Adam?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I have told Adam, but he's not one that loves to be acknowledged for things like that. Like you and I love our stars,

[Gretchen Rubin]

our words of affirmation. Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

He is absolutely not a words of affirmation person. So I don't land on it for a while, but I did mention it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, I think that's a really good point though, that even something like saying I really appreciate this extra effort that I see you're putting in to us, that feels really important. But for somebody else, it might be almost even annoying. And so you really have to think about who are you talking to, not what feels natural to you, the speaker, but what will be received. How do you convey what you want? And maybe it's not saying anything.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, what would be better is for me to pick up my clothes off the floor, unload the dishwasher, things that I know he would like, like me to do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ah, interesting. Kind of a silent exchange of consideration, thoughtfulness and love. Oh, I love it. What a beautiful gold star. Wonderful gold star, Adam. We won't tell you to your face, but it's appreciated. Okay, the resource for this week. If you'd like a small happiness boost each week, you can check out my newsletter. It's a free weekly newsletter called five Things Making Me Happy. Spoiler alert. It is about five things making me happy. For instance, in a recent issue, I shared a video that Jamie sent me that was the song Staying Alive from the movie Saturday Night Fever as if it were sung as a 16th century madrigal. And I just have to say I did not know it, but I love madrigals. And like all I want is more madrigals in my life. I laughed out loud. I watched it 15 times. And it's such a pleasure for me to have an outlet to share the things that make me happier. So I have a huge amount of fun putting this together each week. You can sign [e-mail] Newsletter if you want to get a sense of what they are. You can look at past issues there or if there's something that I mentioned and you're like, wait, what was she talking about? You can look back there. It's just really fun to do that newsletter each week. Elizabeth, what are we reading? What are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I am reading Presumed Guilty by Scott Turro.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I am reading the great divorce by C.S. lewis. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Make a plan for your golden hours. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you. What are you planning to do with your golden hours? We can all learn from each other,

[Elizabeth Craft]

thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And here's your rhyming reminder if you enjoy the podcast, tell your friends fast until next week.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upwards. Elizabeth, do you have a ladder? You have like a real yard and garden. Do you have a ladder?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, we have a ladder. And I'm just thinking, how can I impress upon Adam that he needs to be careful with the latter because he definitely uses it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I was surprised by just how many injuries they cause.

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