← Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Ep. 591: How to Fight Perfectionism—Plus a Simple Happiness Hack That Really Matters
00:39:38
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- [00:02]
A
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- [00:34]
B
Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. Summer it's when we share more time, more memories and more photos. And at, at and t, the iPhone 17 Pro is your summer essential. It's center stage. Front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone.
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A
And AT&T makes sharing those pics with everyone Easy. Right now at, at and t ask how you can get iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible iPhone. Trade in any condition requires trade in of iPhone 15+ or higher. Excludes iPhone 16e and 17e requires eligible plan terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit att.com iPhone or an AT&T store for details. Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we talk about ways to make our lives happier. This week we'll talk about how you can fight perfectionism by embracing imperfection. And we will discuss a reminder about a simple action that can have enormous consequences for our health and happiness. I'm Gretchen Rubin. I'm a writer who studies happiness, good habits and human nature. I'm in my little home office in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I don't think either one of us is really a true perfectionist the way some people are.
- [02:17]
B
That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la. And I don't know, Gretch, you come close in many areas. In other areas, definitely not.
- [02:27]
A
In other areas, not so much. But before we jump in, we got this interesting update from Winslow.
- [02:32]
B
Yes, all week I have been giving you gold stars because I really feel that your warning about the dangers of ladders may have headed off disaster. I am currently at home in Massachusetts, solo parenting my three kids while my husband drives to Alaska where we all spend our summers. I had wanted to do some home improvement projects while he was gone. Several of which would have had me using one of our old rickety ladders. I would have been working alone in our backyard with my kids in the house. And I shudder to think of the impact and toll on them if something had happened to me while on that ladder. Just as you said in the episode, I never gave the ladder a second thought in terms of risk. The irony is that I am just getting back to home improvement projects because in October, I was in a bad car accident. I was rear ended by a tractor trailer on the highway. My recovery has taken a long, long time and it's still not fully done. When the car accident happened, my husband was in California for work. Just after I regained consciousness, as I was being wheeled into the ambulance, I was coordinating with him to find neighbors and grandparents to pick up our kids, make dinner and take care of them until my husband could fly back. Since I would be in the hospital. It was awful to think of our kids waiting with neighbors until a family member could be with them. They were scared that I was hurt and they didn't have their dad to comfort them. Given the recency of this car accident experience, you would think that I would have been more cautious to avoid putting my kids in a similar situation. But I just didn't think of ladders as much of a safety concern because of your episode. Now I do. I'm changing my plans and I'm going to wait to do ladder tasks until I can do it safely and not jeopardize my own health and the emotional well being of my kids. Thank you so much for sharing your warning.
- [04:17]
A
Well, I loved hearing this from Winslow because it's exactly what we wanted to accomplish, which is this is just a little part of ordinary life. You don't realize that it's actually a menace.
- [04:27]
B
Yes.
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A
Because it's so familiar.
- [04:29]
B
Yes. I'm even being very careful on stepladders. Gretch.
- [04:32]
A
Yeah. In a lot of situations, a little bit of caution and a little bit of wariness can make us dramatically safer. It's just this idea that if we've done something, a lot of times it just doesn't, you know, we're standing in the middle of our own kitchen. We don't think, oh, I'm actually leaning really, really far out of my center of gravity if I would topple over. This could really be bad. You just don't think of it.
- [04:55]
B
Yes.
- [04:56]
A
So thank you, Winslow, for that report. This week, our try this at home suggestion is to fight perfectionism by embracing imperfection.
- [05:05]
B
So, Gretch, tell us why we should do this and what it means.
- [05:09]
A
Well, so perfectionism is something that I hear about all the time as a happiness stumbling block. I think for some people, it's something that they struggle with, as we were saying, maybe in one or two areas of their lives. But for some people, it's really a pervasive problem. And it's something that people often bring up to me as something that they're struggling with. One thing that I've realized in one of my secrets of adulthood is that perfectionism is not driven by high standards, but by anxiety. And this is a really helpful thing to note, because if you're talking to someone who is saying, like, oh, I'm dealing with some perfectionism struggles here, you can might say, like, well, lower your standards. Ease up on yourself. But that doesn't really help. That's not reassuring to the person who's battling with perfectionism because it's not about lowering their standards. A lot of times they'll say, well, I don't want to lower my standards. Well, the fact is, it's really about anxiety. It's about feeling, like, uneasy, worried, insecure. It's the feelings of anxiety. So you have to think about the anxiety and why that anxiety is standing in the way of you moving towards your aim. And often people are so worried about being perfect that they don't do anything at all. Yes. And so it's the desire to be 100%, instead of getting you to 80%, it gets you to 0%.
- [06:28]
B
Yes. I think that's a very common issue people have.
- [06:31]
A
I did this collaboration with Clutterbug. That's the name for Cass Arson, a woman who writes a lot about outer order and inner columns. So of course, she and I had a million things to talk about. And Cass was telling me about how when she's dealing with people trying to clear clutter, because that's what she does all day long, is that this often comes up, is perfectionism. And she said to me, you know, sometimes I walk into somebody's apartment and they've got a huge heap of fresh, clean laundry on their dining room table. And I'm thinking to myself, you don't come off as a perfectionist. You know, like, in what sense are you a perfectionist? It doesn't look that way. But then she really. It's really because, oh, if I don't have everything perfectly folded exactly the right way, neatly in a drawer, if I don't have my closet color coded, if I haven't gone through and weeded through in a long time, if I Don't have times to do things properly. I would rather just not do it at all. But my anxiety about doing it properly and also the time and effort that's included in that means that nothing gets done at all. And so a way. If you're stuck in that Mode Instead of 100%, I have 0%. A way to get yourself to 80, maybe, is to embrace the imperfection.
- [07:44]
B
So how do we actively embrace imperfection?
- [07:47]
A
Well, one of the funny examples that Cass gave with a person with the French laundry is she would say, okay, you just have to stuff that stuff into a drawer. She'll make them do it. Like, I want you to just take those T shirts and just stick them in a drawer and shut the drawer. And she said to. People get very panicky because they're like, that's just so wrong. But then they realize, actually, if you just stuff a bunch of T shirts into a drawer, if you just dump your underwear into a drawer, if you just throw your jeans onto a shelf, it's fine. And that sometimes that unlocks them for realizing, like, I don't have to do it perfectly. I can just do enough. I see this with writing. So I used to have this approach with writing. And I do know many writers who write this way. And it's what comes naturally to them, which is they write every sentence perfectly. They would struggle very hard to make every sentence as good as it could possibly be. And they would move forward slowly, but. But very well. And by the time they got to the end, it was, okay, this is basically done. Go back and do some editing. But they really tried to do it right the first time. But when I tried to do that, I found that I would procrastinate, I would get frustrated, I would get stuck. For instance, I have a thing where I don't like to start a sentence with, there is or there are. There are many reasons that a person might want to clear clutter. I wouldn't write that sentence in a book or anywhere, right? Besides, that's just what you're trying to express. And so now I think, okay, just write that sentence so I can move forward. And then I'll go back later and fix it so that I can just keep moving. Because what I found, for me at least, is that when I was trying to do it perfectly as I went, I would get stalled out. I would get frustrated because I couldn't figure out how to solve a problem. And that's when I would do things like get up and start checking the alphabetization of my bookshelves. Just as a procrastinary. And by saying, just write the bad sentence and then go back and fix it later, that prevented me from getting anxious and feeling frustrated and stalled out. How about you, Elizabeth? Is there a way this comes up for you?
- [09:52]
B
Well, I do think writing is an ultimate example of this because, you know, in TV writing, we say write the bad draft, and that is exactly what you're saying. It's just get through something. So then you're rewriting Y. But it is the anxiety of a blank page, as we say.
- [10:09]
A
Yeah.
- [10:10]
B
Once you have something written, your anxiety just naturally dissipates because you're not starting from scratch. It is hard to do to just keep going, but it makes a huge difference. So I think more and more, the more experienced I am in writing, the more I try to embrace imperfection. You'd think it would be the opposite. Yes, but actually, the more experienced you are, the more you embrace the imperfection.
- [10:37]
A
Right. I'm reminded of you and your hundred orange theories in a year, Elizabeth, and something that you said to me, which was because I said, are you getting stressed out about the fact of actually reaching the 100? And you said, well, the thing is, even if I don't reach 100, I'm still going to get a lot closer to 100 than if I weren't trying to get to 100. And I think that's a good example where maybe you don't achieve the total goal. And the question isn't that, okay, it's the total goal, or I am a failure, I have to be perfect or my effort is worthless. It's the idea that I can aim toward a goal. I can sincerely strive to achieve 100% of that goal. But that doesn't mean that partial accomplishment isn't also extraordinarily valuable, because the fact is, in terms of your health and happiness, whatever, 88 versus 176 versus 100. I mean, it's a fun thing to have an arbitrary goal, but it doesn't help us to get overly fixated on the perfect accomplishment of it. Yes, well, and I keep thinking there's so many phrases to help people remember this because this is such a happiness stumbling block. So here's some of my favorites. Done is better than perfect. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That's Voltaire. Don't get it perfect, get it going. One of my favorites is anything worth doing is worth doing badly. If it's worth doing laundry and putting it away, it's worth doing that badly. It's worth working on my draft, even if I'm writing a bad draft. So this is something that comes up all the time.
- [12:12]
B
Yes.
- [12:13]
A
I do think it's more of an issue for some people than others, don't you?
- [12:16]
B
Yes. There are people who are just wired to want everything to be perfect. Those people can be stressful to be around. They can cause anxiety in others because they sort of emanate this need for perfection. And that is hard to be around.
- [12:30]
A
Yes.
- [12:31]
B
Although it can come in handy when you need a project done. Yes, we can all benefit from their perfectionism. But I do think actively embracing imperfection, like you're saying, could be very helpful, rather than just, as you said, lower the bar. No, actively embrace imperfection because then you're doing something.
- [12:51]
A
Yes.
- [12:52]
B
So since you're doing it in a proactive way, it feels like part of the perfectionism is to embrace imperfection.
- [12:59]
A
Well, and the problem with lowering the standards is that you get into an argument about whether it's right to lower your standards. And what I found is that often people will say, but I don't want to lower my standards. It's part of my value is to have this high standard. I seek to have this standard. So then you just go round and round on, well, is your standard the right standard, or should there be a different standard instead? As you say, if you're actively choosing to do something, it doesn't feel like you're abandoning a standard. It's just like, okay, I choose to imperfectly work toward that standard and accept that there's benefits to that even if I don't reach the standard. That is really the standard that I have in mind. But let us know how you do try this at home and how fighting perfectionism by embracing imperfection works for you. How have you done this? What context does it come up for you? And I think, Elizabeth, you raise a really interesting point, which is perfectionism has ripple effects on other people. Have you found a way to talk to somebody effectively who has perfectionist tendencies? Have you found those stressful yourself? Are you inspired by that? Because I think sometimes people who are perfectionists inspire others to have higher standards. So, you know, like a lot of things, it's not all good or all bad. It's a question of how do we manage it so that we really have the happiest, healthiest, most productive life without being dragged down by the downsides of some of our qualities. So let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an email at podcastretchenmovin.com or as always, you can go to happiercast.com 591 for everything related to this episode.
- [14:33]
B
Coming up, we've got a playlist happiness hack, but first, this break.
- [14:46]
A
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer always sounds relaxing in theory, but in reality it can also feel like a lot of travel schedule changes. Trying to make the most of everything while also not getting overwhelmed by it all. You know there can be real pressure to feel like you're having the perfect summer. And sometimes taking care of yourself means not saying yes to every plan or trying to do everything. It's figuring out what actually makes the season feel enjoyable instead of exhausting.
- [15:17]
B
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- [15:52]
A
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- [16:19]
B
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A
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- [17:23]
B
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- [17:58]
A
And now it's time for a Happiness Hack and this excellent suggestion comes from listener Sue.
- [18:04]
B
Yes. She says when I am in a particular mood or need to accomplish a specific task, I ask Spotify for a playlist to match. For example, spring cleaning, yard work, I just quit my job packing for travel, pick me up songs, etcetera, etcetera. It's fun to see what it comes back with. And I get to hear a lot of songs I haven't heard in a long time or are new to me. It helps on those days you might need a good tune to get you through.
- [18:30]
A
I love this suggestion. One of the things that the research shows is that listening to music is one of the quickest, easiest ways to intervene in our mood. And so if there is something that you're trying to inspire yourself to get done, or you're trying to shake yourself out of a mood, or you're trying to get yourself into a mood, music is a really, really good way to do it. And I like the idea that she's also found a way to surface new music or to revisit music that she's forgotten. I am not such a music listener, but I know that for many people this is a huge thing that adds to the happiness of their life. Listening to a song that they forgot that they loved. Finding a new artist, this can be really fun. And I like this way of tying it to something that's happening in her own life. Sue ties it to you can have it be part of your summer theme. You know, for Design youn Summer, you could use music to help you do that.
- [19:22]
B
Yes, I can have a no Worry playlist.
- [19:25]
A
Yes.
- [19:25]
B
Since I've been asking people for, you know, phrases and ways to set aside worry, which is one of my themes for the summer.
- [19:32]
A
Yes.
- [19:33]
B
Gretchen, Sarah and I did something again inspired by a listener recently on Happier in Hollywood, my other podcast where we picked theme songs for different projects.
- [19:45]
A
Ooh. Ooh.
- [19:46]
B
So that's another way to use music to get you in A mindset for what's going on.
- [19:51]
A
Were you thinking if this was a TV show, we might incorporate this music into it? Or it's.
- [19:56]
B
More.
- [19:56]
A
This is a song that invokes the mood that we're trying to get into as we're working.
- [20:00]
B
Yes. More. This is the music that invokes the mood we want to be in, the mindset we want to have.
- [20:07]
A
Well, I've seen authors where they will put in the back the songs that they were listening to.
- [20:13]
B
Yes.
- [20:13]
A
I just read the Scorpio Races by Maggie Stiefvader, and she has in the back a list of songs that put her in the mood. I've seen many people, and I think that's really interesting. But, Elizabeth, you know, I'm also reminded of you and yacht Rock because you sort of. It's my yacht rock summer. And remember when we were driving away from our reading retreat, the screen of your car had yacht rock on it? I guess you had put. That's an existing category. Is it?
- [20:38]
B
Yes. So on satellite radio, there is a station called Yacht Roc. So that's why I decided for that summer just that every time I was in the car, I was gonna put on the yacht rock station.
- [20:51]
A
Yeah. Well, the thing about Don't Worry, there's so many songs, I mean, listeners were saying it where they're explicitly saying don't worry.
- [20:56]
B
Yes.
- [20:57]
A
There's a whole world of don't worry songs. So, yeah, this is just really fun as a way to get in the mood and find new music. And I love this idea. Oh, one more thing I would say about picking the song for the projects. One of the things that the research shows is that if you have a ritual of work, it does help your brain lock in faster. Sometimes people do this with a scented candle.
- [21:22]
B
Yes.
- [21:23]
A
For me, it's. I'm going to sit down in the first thing in the morning with my cup of coffee. That signals to the brain, oh, this is what we're doing now. Now we're on this task. It's just like having a bedtime ritual helps your brain understand. Oh, okay. Now it's time to move towards sleep. Having some kind of ritual can help you get more quickly into the mode of a project so that there's actually really good data behind that. And it's fun. It's fun.
- [21:48]
B
Yes. Love this, Sue. Thank you.
- [21:50]
A
And now for fun with the five senses. And speaking of the five senses and hearing, because we were just talking about a playlist, one of the things I learned from life in five senses is the importance of the senses for a happy, healthy life. And one simple, easy thing that you can do, and you probably know if maybe you should do this, is to get your hearing checked.
- [22:19]
B
Yes. It's interesting because kids get their hearing checked periodically through school. They have to, you know, have it checked for their health form. Yeah. But adults almost never get their hearing check. I haven't had my hearing checked in decades.
- [22:34]
A
Yes, well, I was thinking about this because a couple friends of mine have recently gotten hearing aids, and they're all really happy that they did it. So here are some signs to think about if you're wondering whether you should get your hearing checked. One is people sound like they're mumbling or speech sounds muffled. You often ask people to repeat themselves. I think that's the number one thing that I think makes people aware of it. You keep asking them to repeat or you're asking to repeat. If you struggle to follow conversation in restaurants, parties, or other places. There are a lot of trends in restaurants that make restaurants a lot louder. It used to be that restaurants had things like carpeting, tablecloths, heavy drapery. That was kind of the look of a restaurant. Now it's things like wood, concrete, tile that makes sound bounce, bounce, bounce. A lot of times they have loud sound systems, loud music playing. That's just a trend now, which I do not like. I wish that there was a chain of restaurants called Quiet Restaurant. I would go there. But it's something to think about as you choose a restaurant, even if you don't need a hearing aid. But if you universally are finding this difficult, you might need help. Phone conversations being harder to understand. You turn up the TV or your headphones loud, and people keep saying, oh, too loud, too loud. You find yourself really tired after socializing because you had to concentrate so hard on listening. You avoid conversation altogether or social settings because it's very frustrating because you can't hear people. And then also, if you have ringing, buzzing, or roaring in your ears, that might be a sign of it. And the thing about hearing loss is that it happens very gradually. And so we adapt to it. And we don't realize how much we're not hearing because we forgot that we could hear it.
- [24:26]
B
Yeah. I remember when dad got his hearing aids. Suddenly he could hear, like, the rustling newspaper pages and coffee pouring. And those are just things that had dropped out, which you don't even realize. But once you can hear again, the world comes alive.
- [24:43]
A
Yes. Yes. The thing is, when it's harder to hear, conversations take more effort. Social occasions become frustrating. Phone calls can be difficult. You might withdraw without even really noticing it. People might withdraw from you without really realizing why. That can lead to isolation. And that is just such a problem for our health and happiness. Look, and it can also actually be dangerous because hearing can make it hard to hear advice, hard to hear things like smoke alarms or a phone hearing an approaching car or a bicyclist. It seems like it also helps with cognitive decline. And of course, hearing aids don't restore it altogether, but they can be a big, big help.
- [25:23]
B
Yes. And just a note on this, Gretchen. If someone does have hearing aids, make sure they have them in if you're gonna have an important conversation.
- [25:32]
A
Yeah.
- [25:32]
B
When we were with dad and he had to have an important medical conversation, we interrupted the doctors to say, dad put in your hearing aids. Because we wanted to make sure he knew exactly what was being said.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah. And it was interesting to me that he didn't have that instinct. And I think that sometimes people sort of forget they need their hearing aids. They might think that they're hearing. And so I do think it's something to be really aware of, which is if this is really important, you know, you want to be able to hear every word clearly.
- [26:00]
B
And the good news, Gretchen, is that the technology has improved so much.
- [26:06]
A
Yes.
- [26:06]
B
It's really not a big deal to wear a hearing aid. You wouldn't even notice it most of the time.
- [26:13]
A
No, they're smaller, they're more convenient. There are a lot more price points now. They become much more accessible and often cheaper for many people because over the counter hearing aids became available in the United States. That happened in October 2022. And so if you have mild to moderate hearing loss, you know, you can just get these online or in stores. You don't need a prescription, you don't need a medical exam, you don't need an audiologist. Fitting. I mean, of course you, you know, you might want a more sophisticated evaluation and choice, but it's just good to know that if you haven't really been paying attention for like 30 years, all of this has come a long, long way. I remember, you know, our grandmother struggled so much with her hearing aids. It's nothing like that now. Yeah, it's so much easier.
- [26:59]
B
Yeah. And Gretchen, a benefit is, I think for most people, their hearing aids can also count as like air pods. Yes, essentially. So they're very useful in that way too. You can listen to music, you could have phone conversations, etc. Through your hearing aids.
- [27:15]
A
My mother in law is always like, oh, I'm listening to a Podcast or whatever. One of the things, too, I think, is that I think sometimes people don't want to get hearing aids because they don't want to seem older. But we seem older when we keep asking people to repeat themselves.
- [27:30]
B
Yes.
- [27:31]
A
And so I think if you need them, you will seem more youthful and with it and vigorous with them than without them.
- [27:38]
B
Absolutely. So let us know if you have recently gotten a hearing aid and it improved your life, or if this inspires you to go get your hearing checked and maybe get some hearing aids.
- [27:50]
A
Absolutely. And now there's a listener question from Amelie and Elizabeth. This is a question for you. Amelie writes. I'm curious for Elizabeth about how she divides her time between television work and working on a novel. That seems really hard. I think it is hard. Also, how did she and Sarah split the work? It seems very complicated. A lot of people are interested in that. Elizabeth, how you and Sarah split up your work?
- [28:15]
B
Yeah, I'll answer that first. So what we do is whatever we're working on, whether it be TV or novel, we discuss at length what we're gonna write so what the scene is going to be. And we do that for chunks, or if we're doing it for a TV show, we'll do, like the who episode. And this is a very common thing that TV writers do. They. We call it breaking the episode. Then what we do is we actually split up the scenes to write, because it's very hard to actually write a scene together. So we split up the scenes, then we do notes, we rewrite, and then we either rewrite again on our own or at a certain point, we start rewriting together, because rewriting together is much easier than writing together. And so we do that for tv, and we are doing the same thing for the book. We know what the scene is, and then we're gonna each write scenes.
- [29:12]
A
Okay, so here's my question. At this point, are your styles very similar?
- [29:17]
B
I think so. One thing we're gonna do with the novel is read each other's scenes as we go to make sure that we are kind of using similar voices so that they mesh well. Because we, of course, haven't written nearly as many novels as we have scri. So that's a little dicier. What's nice about television is once you have a pilot episode, all the voices are very established. So anybody should be able to write.
- [29:47]
A
Yes.
- [29:47]
B
In a similar way. That's part of being a TV writer. So in tv, it's actually very easy how we divide our time. I mean, that is one of the Biggest questions we face, because we talk about urgent versus important writing our novel is important, but there's no urgency to it. Whereas many of our TV projects feel very urgent and like, oh, we have to do that this week, or we have a meeting on this tomorrow. So that has been a struggle. And we said, oh, we're going to set aside X number of weeks and just power through a novel. But the fact is, if somebody calls and says, hey, are you interested in doing X project? We don't have this wherewithal to sort of pass up something that we would be interested in. But we can't say, all right, we're interested. We'll get back to you in three months. So it's a struggle, Gretch. That's actually part of the reason we did this exercise of choosing theme songs for various projects, so that we could get into the mindset.
- [30:52]
A
Yes.
- [30:53]
B
Of different projects quickly. Because it is really hard to creatively switch back and forth constantly. It really kind of messes with the flow. So what I would say, Amelie, is that we struggle with it. We have not found the perfect solution.
- [31:11]
A
Yeah. I mean, and just given the nature of your industry, it's not like you can say, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we'll work on tv. Tuesday, Thursday, we'll work on the novel. Because you have meetings, you have deadlines, you have things come up. You have an idea like, oh, we better, like, go in there and fix this right now. It's kind of all happening all at once. And also, I feel like you really need to have a lot of projects going because it's so hard to predict what's gonna go the distance. Yes. And so you can't just say, okay, let's just go all in on this. Because that would not be strategically wise.
- [31:44]
B
No. Unless a show is actually in production and going, and you are physically, you know, on set, you really do need to have several projects going. I mean, over five.
- [31:56]
A
Yeah.
- [31:57]
B
So it's difficult. And because that's our kind of bread and butter, we can't just turn our backs on it to write the novel. So we're trying, we're learning, we're constantly evolving. But it's a great question.
- [32:11]
A
So one more thing I would add, just because I think people who are interested in collaboration would be interested to hear you talk about Google Docs and why that was such a breakthrough for you in terms of you and Sarah collaborating on documents. Yes.
- [32:25]
B
So we had an assistant named Wafwa who was absolutely adamant. Sarah and I start Google Docs, which we didn't want to do.
- [32:32]
A
Now that you think back on it.
- [32:33]
B
I know.
- [32:34]
A
Bananas, right? Madness. This was a long time ago, and to be fair. Yes.
- [32:38]
B
But anyway, she got us to use Google Docs, and Google Docs are designed so that multiple people can be using a document at the same time or not at the same time. But it really helps us because we can evolve a document together or separately and only have it in one place. Rather than the old days where you had to email each other new stuff and put it together and it was incredibly confusing and could easily lead to big mistakes. This is a very streamlined way to work on something together. So I highly recommend it for anyone who doesn't yet use Google Docs.
- [33:18]
A
Are you ever both in a document and both typing at the same time and both even in the same paragraph? Like she's changing a word and you're adding a sentence? Or is it more like one of you is driving?
- [33:28]
B
Yes, all the time. When we're together, when we're working together, if we're working separately, if one of us sees the other is working in the document, we'll just find a different place to work and then put it in. Because it's too unnerving to be writing a scene and have somebody elsewhere also writing. It's feels then like a competition. Yes, but if we're working together, yes, we'll both be working at the same time because we can see what the other is doing.
- [33:54]
A
So it's easy, right? And then there's just one more question from Katie and she. I think I mentioned offhandedly that about the episode of Fantasy island where the woman just wanted to rest, that came out of Sarah's experience as a new mother when all she wanted to do is sleep. And Katie asked, which is the Fantasy island episode with the woman who wants to rest? I want to rewatch that, but in Google search did not help me. Do you remember which episode that was, Elizabeth?
- [34:16]
B
Yes, Gretchen. That was probably my favorite episode. It was in season one, episode six. It was called the Big Five Zero. Oh.
- [34:26]
A
Oh yes.
- [34:27]
B
And it was women celebrating their 50th birthdays. And one of the really fun things about that episode is that it featured women who had been in the cast of Melrose Place. So it was also sort of a Melrose Place reunion. And we had a couple of sly references to Melrose Place. So definitely recommend looking up that episode.
- [34:49]
A
Okay, Katie, go watch.
- [34:50]
B
Okay. Coming up, Gretchen gives herself a packing demerit. But first, this break.
- [35:04]
A
Buying glasses used to feel way more complicated than it should be. There were so many choices and somehow it always felt expensive. That is why we are both such fans of Warby Parker. Their virtual try on lets you see how frames look right from your phone and it's surprisingly accurate. I am wearing my Warby Parker glasses right this second. I love how easy it was to find a style that actually fits my face and feels like me.
- [35:29]
B
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- [36:11]
A
Harvard Business School Executive Education now is the time to invest in yourself and change the world with your voice. Our programs connect you with faculty at the forefront of their fields, introduce you to a global network of leaders, and help you step into your full potential. The next chapter is yours. Let us help you write it. Apply today to accelerate your future. Learn more at HBS Me Accelerate. That's HBS Me Accelerate. I had one of those weeks where the to do list just kept growing. Little repairs, things to mount, random projects I kept putting off, and eventually it all starts taking up mental space even when you're not doing it. And that's why I've been using TaskRabbit. You can book a skilled tasker for furniture assembly, home repairs, mounting, yard work, whatever you need help with with.
- [37:06]
B
And you can search based on reviews, availability and cost so you feel good about who's showing up. I finally handed off a project I had been avoiding and let me tell you, it was such a relief just to have it done. I use TaskRabbit and you should too. When life happens, your to do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task@taskrabbit.com or on the TaskRabbit app using code HAPPIER. That's $15 off your first task using promo code HAPPIER with the TaskRabbit app or at taskrabbit.com okay Gretch, we are back with demerits and gold stars and this week you are up with a happiness demerit.
- [37:50]
A
Okay, I mean, I've done this a million times. I did it again. I was going on a big Trip with my family. And I kept saying over and over, I should plan my packing. I should make a special list. Like, I have a list that's sort of a basic list, but I should make an actual list for this trip. But I kept putting it off. Classic thing. It's so far away. I have so much time cut to. It's the day before, I'm running around. And of course there was a sweatshirt, this like green sweatshirt that was just the right weight and I couldn't find it in time. Where it is, I do not know. I will find it eventually, but I didn't give myself any margin. And I knew perfectly well it's always start early, put things aside. One thing I have learned though, about starting early, don't go ahead and pack everything. Because then I end up unpacking everything to make sure, like, wait, did I remember to pack socks? I don't know. Or not, you know, whatever. But I could have started thinking through how many nights is it? How many bottoms do I need? How many tops do I need? Having a rough view of for this specific trip. Not just bring a baseball cap, but what do I need for this trip? And so I hope by giving myself this demerit, next time I will remember everything's easier if you give yourself a little bit of time ahead of time. Waiting just makes it worse. It just makes it more stressful, makes it more frustrating. You have less time than you think. Something that can be done at any time has often done at no time.
- [39:15]
B
What I find helpful, Gretchen, is we have a guest room and I just start putting things on the guest room bed.
- [39:21]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [39:22]
B
Not in any particular order, but if I think, okay, I know I need a cap, I go put a cap in. If I put in, you know, the jeans that I think I want to take now, then I don't have to take everything, but I start assembling it there. And then I just do a couple things even at a time when I'm thinking of it. Yeah, like, oh, I know, I don't want to forget, you know, a curling iron. I put the curling iron there. So maybe you could try the guest room bed method.
- [39:47]
A
I'm good at doing that kind of thing. This was more like identify the actual items to make sure that I can put them together.
- [39:55]
B
Got it.
- [39:56]
A
But yeah, both are very good for packing. But then, of course, what I love about packing to come home is it's so easy. You just dump everything in your suitcase. I find that very energizing. I always give myself a huge number of gold Stars for how quickly I can pack to come home, because that's the easiest thing in the world. But, Elizabeth, what is your gold star?
- [40:13]
B
Well, this is a fun gold star, Gretchen, which I'm gonna, I guess, give myself. It's for something I actually didn't do, but I was going to do.
- [40:24]
A
So this is funny.
- [40:26]
B
I was giving my friends a gold star in my mind because they signed up to go to a dance class. And I was thinking, oh, my gosh, good for them, going to a dance class. I'm so glad I'm not signed up for this dance class.
- [40:42]
A
What kind of dance?
- [40:43]
B
I don't even know. Hip hop, probably.
- [40:46]
A
Okay.
- [40:47]
B
And then the day before the dance class, I got a text saying, hey, one person can't go to the dance class. Come with us. Tickets already paid for. You can, you know, come be awkward with us. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, that happened. Now I'm being called into this dance class.
- [41:07]
A
Yes.
- [41:08]
B
And of course, I really didn't want to go, but I said, how can I say no to this? I will go. I was all set on it. And then I was set on, okay, now I'm going to give myself a gold star for going to this dance class. But then the night before, the teacher canceled, and it was the first time she'd canceled, apparently in years, if ever. And I didn't have to go. So it was like the greatest thing, because I agreed to go. Mentally, I was prepared. But then fate intervened, Gretch, and I did not go to the dance class. Could it come up again? Yes, it could. But for now, you're off the line. I escaped, but I get my gold star.
- [41:47]
A
That's the thing, is, you know, my favorite kind of plans are canceled plans.
- [41:50]
B
Exactly.
- [41:51]
A
No. So you definitely get a gold star because you said, I will say yes, I will go. Yeah, but you got left off the hook. That's delightful. The resource for this week, Halfway day. It's coming up July 2nd. We will be halfway through the year. That is an opportunity to reflect on the aims you set in January and think about what you want to do for the rest of the year. If you're trying to do something consistently, maybe you're trying to do your move 26 and 26 consistently. My don't Break the Chain Habit Tracker is a journal that gives you a place to keep track of the habit and see how you're doing over time. If you want to try that yourself. If you find that this kind of streak approach really works for you, happier listeners can get 20% off with the code HAPPIER20. Visit happiercast.com shop and search don't break the chain and you will find the tracker and Elizabeth, what are we reading? What are you reading?
- [42:45]
B
I am reading Rewilding by Jane Greene
- [42:48]
A
and I am just about to finish volume one of Virginia Woolf's Diaries. I got four more to go. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Fight perfectionism by embracing imperfection. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
- [43:07]
B
Thanks to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.
- [43:11]
A
And here's your rhyming reminder. If you like the show, tell others you know.
- [43:16]
B
Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.
- [43:18]
A
And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
- [43:34]
B
So, Gretchen, am I remembering that your summer is like summer of reading Virginia Woolf's diaries?
- [43:40]
A
Yes. Okay.
- [43:41]
B
So you are sticking with that and you are going to get through it fast, it seems.
- [43:47]
A
Well, we'll see. But I will get through it. This episode is brought to you by Google Health. Stop chasing someone else's definition of health. What matters is what's healthy for you. Google Health offers a new kind of coach built with Gemini for effortless tracking, sleep insights and holistic coaching tailored to you. Visit Googlestore to learn more and start a new relationship with your health. Requires Google Account, Google Health App Internet and Google Health Premium subscription. Features subject to change. Availability and results vary. Not intended for medical purposes. Works independently of Gemini apps. Check responses for accuracy.